Hello cult members. Here's the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:30 Why Women Aren’t Having Children Anymore 08:20 Evolutionary Psychology After 22 Years 16:23 What All Married Couples Need to Know 28:18 Responding to Critics of Evolutionary Psychology 32:32 The Difference Between Beauty & Hotness 44:08 The Psychology of Social Groups 54:26 Geoffrey’s Thoughts on the Manosphere 1:04:18 How Twitter Shows Human Nature 1:09:04 Is there an Increase of Slut & Simp-shaming? 1:25:24 Should Dating Apps be Banned? 1:32:56 Importance of Existential Risk 1:40:45 Where to Find Geoffrey
Its a natural instinct of a woman if she's attracted to the partner enough and his marriage material to want a child with him. If not then the partner isn't marriage material or fulfilling the females need.
@@GuidetteExpert Certainly is. Because it's a point where her natural anxiety has calmed down, she recognises that it's due to his presence and she wants that situation to continue. And at some level she's aware that by having a child with him, she's locking him to her.
Andy Lewis im speaking from a female perspective that there is a natural feeling of wanting a baby that only happens with the right man that fulfils her needs and reasures her that he will stick around. Seeing your spouse following instagram models and liking their pictures can shut down that feeling of wanting a baby with him.
My biggest takeaway from this is the fact that evolutionary psychology is a new concept to some people. I never considered the possibility that it wasn't clearly obvious to everyone else. Really clears up a lot of confusion I've had over the years.
Geoffrey's way of having an argument with his wife is pure genius! I love it! I wish one day to have that same level of self control and understanding to mock myself, even in anger. It reminds me of the book The Way of the Peaceful Warrior I've just finished, where one of the most important lessons is humor, not taking life too seriously.
What Mr Miller said about the women and the feedback to them is absolutely correct! I feel in today's world, we mix up all issues and forget that women have problems they have to fix. I’m a fervent defendant of women but still believe in calling out women's BS. Both can exist!
This dating angle is so lucrative that every TH-camr is hip to it. People are much lonelier than ever before, dating is in turmoil and childless couples rising. But it's ok because you're working for a tech company lol
Just because people are married doesn’t mean they don’t feel lonely though... there’s a lot of married people who are suffering in silence and think they have to remain married because until death do us part thing... life is too short to stay in an unhappy unfulfilled marriage men and women
Women want to suppress this information and manipulate it in the worst way possible for the sole purpose of skirting accountability in their ho phase. They don't care if it destroys the world. THANKS WOMEN.
Thanks Chris for really exploring the topics surrounding modern fertility and dating. Its a really important issue to bring to light. We're well and truly done if the current trend continues without intervention.
I cannot understand why this podcast doesn't have millions of views, because every person alived in this world should listen to it. Thank you for your work Chris and Geoffrey, this is amazing.
@20:24 “you’ll almost never see actors in a serious adult drama actually make fun of their own reactions in a kind of wise and insightful way” what a gem of a quote
My dad is a great role model, he managed to stay married to a woman who while is very smart is very difficult to live with. I am so glad he did, it’s been a blessing to us kids and I am so glad I grew up in a two parent household. As a woman I have a great male role model and an example of how to stay married long term. I can take his advice of what he did right and what he did wrong so I can make the best choice for me.
@14:30 I love what he said about simply understanding the differences between men and women (rather than making any judgement on them) then just moving forward with that in mind.
1:13:43 - 1:14:12 Spot on! I feel like we as men lack the proper role models in our lives that we actually have a tangible connection with, rather than just some random famous person that we look up to that inspire us, sure we need that as well. But it's like we're forced into a life where we have to imitate behavior instead of being taught.
Our entire field of psychology is under attack. So yes Jordan Peterson videos, videos like these, Busse etc are the best way to learn what people SHOULD learn as foundations of psychology.
Really glad that he pointed out the differences between how men and women "fight". With men, it's physical most of the time... physicality is easily visible and understandingly shut down. Women, on the other hand, wage war with words... and that is still completely fair game. Not saying men don't do this as well, but women perfected it... and if you won't put up with it, you're considered weak by many. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying take out your pitchforks and demonize women for this (because again, men do it too), just pointing out that is so rarely talked in terms of "violence"/abuse...there are a lot of emotionally abused partners out there.
Important caveat here, though: Physical fights between men usually ends up with them being friends. Or at least finding some mutual respect, because they defended themselves. Whereas women who fight, physically or with words, they are enemies for life. So maybe we shouldn't be so quick to shut down physical fights involving men..
59:15 When you put yourself in the shoes of a woman it almost feels natural to want a man who is ideally assertive, kind, financially stable, fit, healthy, good looking, tall, big, strong - all these things that generally the manosphere doesn't seem to realize. I also keep thinking about if I were to get a daughter, I would be on her case constantly about getting a man who is pretty much most of these traits. (obviously stressing some more than others)
Sounds kind of narcisistic. What if the guy is too assertive and makes your daughter into a submissive gangbang slut for the homeboys who she will eventually get her pregant and dump her on a sidewalk because she didn't take her birthcontrol pills?
Lol I know right. Manosphere guys are the left overs who couldn't overcome. Don't listen to them. They're delusional. No freaking way I'd want either of my two daughters to date bums like them. Sucks for them. But thats the game man.
@@torachan23 and also to not want one who is partying all the time, spends every weekend in clubs, has a social media feed filled with half naked pictures, has lip job and fake boobs done and so on
My big existential risk is that education has become incredibly top-heavy, especially in engineering. Very few people, including so called experts, understand the entire system any more, compared to like a century ago. And related, our informational exchange is surpassing our organizational capacity.
That is an interesting take, would you say that scales with the field size, like is it moreso in big fields like mechanical for example vs a small field like biosystems or metallurgy? Being a metallurgist most good college professors in the field are former industry types, like a 70/30 split
@@steelwarrior105 it might not be as much of an issue in a field like that, but the issue isn't so much field size as the reach and depth of technology generating products and concepts beyond the common ability to understand them. When I was in undergrad, my thermo professor's exams were all on file in the library going back to the start of his career. Because they didn't have graphing calculators back then (now about 50 years ago), the exams were about demonstrating basic knowledge of the field. In my day in school, we did have graphing calculators, so we could be expected to solve complex problems on the exams. And then when I taught the same subject, students were looking up homework solutions on the internet and often just memorized a basic approach instead of learning how to do the problems. The people who move on in these fields don't necessarily really understand how the field works anymore, the technology involved gives a veneer of understanding that isn't actually necessarily there. The internet does this, computers/programming does this, accumulating scientific research does this. We are a society operating on TMI and too much tech. We need to dig down into how to get people to truly understand core topics, how to organize and synthesize the enormous amounts of information we've generated over the past century or so. I think it's certainly humanly possible to do this, the trick is for us to start doing it. A good first step would be to take the education of students as seriously as the generation of scientific break throughs. This is a huge challenge because the humanities and social sciences hold the keys to that, and the physical sciences rarely comingle with those areas of study.
@@pmberkeley Part of the problem is poor education and perception. I teach engineering students how to overcome this often, and I give many real world examples. I use the lessons I teach every day in my job designing the most powerful computers on earth. Yes, some things are very complex, but it depends upon how you approach it as well.
@@SoloRenegade I've known a lot of electrical engineers and computer scientists, and many of them have no idea what mechanical engineers learn or how it can help their computer or electrical designs. For example, the state of 3D printers is stunted by the fact that they're mostly designed by electrical engineers/CS people, who have poor knowledge of how to heat the bed evenly for proper adhesion and programmers of the printing path don't design for optimal material strength. My point stands. You don't know what you don't know, and neither do your students. Our technology is sufficiently complex that the entire education system needs to be retooled lest we increasingly develop below our actual knowledge base. A major limiting factor in this is how few engineers, for example, understand pedagogy or engage in the philosophy of science.
@@pmberkeley WTF are you accusing me of? you have no idea what I do and don't know. Don't blame me for your personal failures, nor the failures of other engineers. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean Nobody does. It's not your fault you received a poor education on this issue, most engineers and engineering students are being give a poor education on it. But you have No idea what my argument is, no ideas what I do/don't know, and so you have NO basis for coming after me and making accusations against me. You are bitter and you seem to want to blame everyone else rather than take some ownership of your life. If others didn't teach you properly, then seek out those like me who can help (not that I'm keen on helping you now at this point), or self-learn on your own and figure it out. If you're an engineer, then prove it by figuring it out and coming up with a solution, as I did!
Chris, I would love to see Lori Gottlieb as one of your guests. She is a psychotherapist who wrote a book called Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough. She delves into the standards that women have for men in dating and why many of them are keeping women from finding a good partner.
Because tora isn’t it obvious that society places more love and care into women than men. Society simps for women trhey are the little delicate lambs remember? 😂 my arse mate
No homo, but Geoffrey Miller changed my life, I’m from Mexico and I translate some of his ideas to Spanish and I taught to my friends and family and they are fascinated.
The point about seeing dating from the woman's perspective is incredibly valuable. My only contention is that it really seems like more men have an understanding of the issues women have with dating than women have an understanding of men's. I don't think I've rarely ever seen anyone tell women to step out of themselves and consider what the man they're going out with or talking to is having to deal with except for the "manosphere". It's rare to find clips from The View or ticktok or whatever saying "judging all men based off of the ones you've had experience with is not fair and you should be more introspective and see the common denominator is your choices" or "well maybe that guy you wanted to approach you won't because you're obnoxious" or " you really shouldn't lie to a man about how you really feel about him just because you dont want to upset him. You're not sparing his feelings by not saying no, you're sparing your own ego. Acting like that will just push you to ghost him, which is much more cruel and disrespectful than telling him you're not interested" Idk you can all tell me I'm wrong. That's normally what happens when I give my opinion
When they were discussing the evolutionary aspects, women seem to not be able to get past the physically dominant men or the very successful men while they believe society has now opened the doors for them to be able to do whatever they would like. Ideally, men and women having more freedom to live the way they want would be the best outcome. However, schooling takes much too long and young people are not financially in a good spot.
Dr. JOHN GRAY, would be the best guest regarding male and female relationships. He was the OG in this field and was married for 30 years till his wife passed on. And he was totally monogamous and was a Buddhist monk who abstained for years and is a zen master of meditation. And he had several kids with her and now several grandkids.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 ah yes the classic "everyone in this category is best characterized as an extremist bozo", gotta love how that keeps appearing in comment sections.
Mate is my favourite book of all time, and The Mating Grounds Podcast is my favourite podcast of all time. I highly recommend the book and the podcast to any male who wants to delve deeper into dating advice that is based on science and evolutionary psychology!
G Miller is an absolute badass. Evolutionary psychology is the rosetta stone to human behavior. Tens of thousands of years of strategy and relentless survival. Got smarter listening to this.
To your final points, Chris... I sense a strong likelihood that there are many people attempting to be THE exestential threat podcasters, but they are being sensored and we will likely never hear their cries. This was a great discussion, regardless.
Great content!! Society is undergoing a significant evolution resulting from ever consuming technology. Thoughtful discussion of this phenomenon is both fascinating and therapeutic, with a thumps up for sure!! ty
2:05 notice how chris is already ready to ask (or agree on the matter) another question, but hesitates and makes a move towards further discussion on the subject that had momentarily aroused an interest in him. that what makes a good interviewer. following the script, but gradually making your way to build up a normal conversation, which requires lots of self explanation to reach a common understanding for the participants and the viewers
12:20 "where do undergrads go" mostly podcasts and recorded lectures. Jordan Peterson's 2017 personality course recordings, here, Brett Weinstein, Lex Fridman had a guest who talked about human evolution recently. Unfortunately I don't feel my peers and I have the wisdom to select who to listen to well. At a proper university we would have a team of older, vastly more educated adults to guide us. All I have now are youtubers/podcasters who are doing some mix of educating me out of generosity and harnessing my attention for financial gain. And an algorithm that only wants financial gain.
I'm in very similar situation. I watch the same lectures and podcasts you mentioned, probably read similar books and I am 20 yo. But all my friends in real life aren't interested in these sort of things. Would you like to talk a bit about these topics? I really would like to have someone to talk about ev psych and those topics
I don't admire anyone but myself. I enjoy listening to various perspectives and I don't limit my possibilities. I am open to evolve and dare I say it devolve.
I remember a hypothesis regarding green/blue eyes was that it’s much easier to recognize pupil dilation of light colored eyes compared to that of darker eyes, so that sexual arousal is more recognizable/less likely to fake.
I personally think it's just the climate, just like with white skin blue eyes mite just be a way to see better in a colder climate/ don't need as much protection against the sun. Green eyes mite also be the same however to a lesser extent, more the eye colour that's between the two as in blue and brown/ black eyes, just like red hair mite be the step between blonde and dark hair. It just seems strange to me that the European descendants are far more distinct in terms of hair and eye colours, were as most other races/ breeds of humans it's very rare and mite just be because they had an ancestors that mixed more then the simple answer that it happening naturally all over the world because its not very common at all, and the explanation it can happen to anyone from anywhere answer they try and give, when you try to get an answer is just because they don't really know why they are all just having a rough estimate. But then again, we are a lot more individualistic maybe that's why, and maybe that's part of the reason Europeans mite have been becoming a distinct spices / very specialised version/ breed of humans, maybe left alone for longer the European mite have been a lot more visually appealing/ distinct at lest in hair and eye colours maybe having a few even rare types, but it's all just stabs in the dark at this time.
So many book recommendations in this episode, kind of overwhelmed when "You should read this" was mentioned 10 times. I can hardly read 6 books in a year
Wow! I'd never thought of the parallel between simp-shaming and slut-shaming before, but it seems quite obvious now that I think about it. Really interesting stuff. Thanks!
In regards to the dating apps. I disagree with Dr. Miller here as I feel like at one point in time dating apps were helpful, even useful. But that point in time was long ago. While I believe that an outright ban is untenable, a series of regulations around the construction of said apps that facilitate the creation of systems designed to limit the excesses of hypergamy and the Pareto principle should be done. Even if I and many others refuse to use these apps.
The dating apps are not going anywhere because the gynocentric social order wants them to be around. They benefit women and their need for hypergamy the most. If there are any changes made, it will be either to make the average guys pay more or shame the top 10% of the guys that stick it and quit it.
Another great episode! 🙏 A small feedback would be to just quickly explain concepts that might require some prior knowledge very quickly. I listen as a podcast on the move and cannot always pause and Google. Thanks!
A problem with a lot of these academics is that they are subject to social pressures that may restrict them from drawing some uncomfortable conclusions. If an academic does work but draws a very impolite or dangerous conclusion that may reveal something about the human condition, they will alter their conclusion because the reputation risk and/or career-social risk is too great. They are subject to ideological constraints that other people who do not fall under the rubric of "professional" or "academic" are not restrained by. Now, the question is whether that's a good thing which for many cases it is but those constraints and by virtue incomplete analysis remains nonetheless. It's applying a personal morality to science or observed behavior to guide a certain moralistic/value driven/ideological narrative versus simply presenting the case with the information and having people draw their own conclusions from the facts. That's whats observed by people who denigrate the guys who went out into their own lives and accumulated data on their own through trial and error and compiling data/information and compared notes in forums. People have a problem with this method because it does not take into account the ethical requirements of a "professional" or "academic" study but one could argue that that information actually presents a more raw data set because it is not constrained by institutional social pressures. The information may be uncomfortable but would people rather be happy or right? That is the ethical question which inevitably leads to things like the "noble lie". Unfortunately, intersexual dynamics in the internet exposure age with recorded data over a large sample size and time frame are revealing some pretty uncomfortable trends that are now making it near impossible to ignore and therefore confronting people to make decisions on how to react/respond.
Oh okay so I should consider the experiences by some random men over the academic studies by professional academics because there is academic pressure to ignore certain explanations. Got it.
You are just claiming that academics are forced to come to a certain conclusion via social pressure because their conclusion disagrees with your conclusion
The fact that you think that guys compiling data from their own experiences and comparing them in forums is just as credible as academics studying the particular topic because academics are forced to comply to a certain ideology is delusional.
The interview is a winner and explained those tats and neck bands. The F-word thrown in by Chris caused me to doubt my hearing for a second. It's OK though.
Excellent talk. What an interesting guy, and you both seemed to have conversation points that brought out the deeper levels of the topic knowledge from each other. 👍👍
I think of Bill Burr when he says technology will just replace us. Sex dolls will become more and more human like…and people will prefer them to actual humans, and eventually we will go extinct.
@@anneb889 If “we” means the West, then yes. The West will be demographically replaced by more marriage/family/population growth cultures and people. This isn’t actually any bit surprising. Just 800 years ago, the whole of North & South America was populated by completely different groups of people, now look? Heck, 1000 years ago the people who are the modern day Turks, were a bunch of Mongolian tribes wandering the Central Asian steppe, with East Asian features.
@@MomoSimone22 male bird: check out my wings female bird: i've seen bigger male bird: check out my colorful tail female bird: nah, i've seen better male bird: check out how fast i fly female bird: let me try throwing a rock - my rock is faster than you male bird: stfu female bird: misogynist
Chris, I recommend interviewing Isaac Arthur. He has a space and futurism TH-cam channel that's far better than anything you'll find on TV or almost any other TH-cam channel
Try teaching measurement of IQ now the social psychologists have wrongly convinced so many people that either IQ varies due to social.status because of resources etc they get outraged by the the fact that IQ is 50% heritable so they argue that there are many "intelligences"social intelligence, emotional intelligence (which are instead personality factors such as openness, extroversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, neuroticism).Teaching anything to undergrads about intelligence is just fraught with politics.
Fantastic show. My only want from this episode would have been for him to elaborate on how apps like Tinder affects the marriage rates… He said you can’t focus on 20% getting the 80% of the opposite sex, but instead should focus on marriage rates; HOWEVER, it ruins marriage rates due to the casuality (new word there folks) of hooking up and addiction to attention. Plus, those 80% getting with the 20% may become bitter, resentful, pregnant, have kids from hooking up, STDs. Imagine thinking you have this amazing person, and then you get discarded because something better came along or you found out you’re one of many…
You shouldn't have this notion by the time you marry someone. Don't meet people you plan on starting a relationship with on the app. Join a class. Or do something public. Challenge yourself to meet a girl in public. Whom you've never spoken too. Just start waving at girls see what they do. I started doing this in my car when you stop at a light beside someone just wave at them. See what they do. Alot of this stuff. The online tinder situations and what not degrade men's charisma because they feel like they're competing with every Chad with abs. Lol
And I just wave at people for fun to screw with them. Lol me and my kids do it now. Haha it's hilarious. Fuck I still cat call women sometimes blow them kisses when I drive by one girl went so red she almost dropped her bags blushing to wave back at me. Lol
well done brother,amazing podcast!!!we are much alike in the sense that i recently got out of the 'nightlife' and i started reading books and listening to podcasts to educate myself and you provide great content...lots of love and respect and keep doing what you do,and consider inviting neuroscientists and tal ben sahar or someone similar about positive pshychology its life changing material
The dads and grand dads didnt have a theoretical framework for how to find a mate. Maybe they had some instinct or unnamed skill, but they couldnt put words on why it worked for them. They had no internet for learning such things. Its hard to teach something you cannot express in words.
Why should we bring children here just because of amatonormativity? Hard to avoid any cognitive biases but it seems like the government as a byproduct of agricultural/pastoral revolution will always be in need for more consumers, wage-slaves and cannon fodder regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent.
While we are reflecting on the stats of the reduction in child bearing.. Perhaps we should place side by side with those stats.. the vast number of people who have lived truly horrible lives, because the pregnancy that bore them was unwanted in the first place.
This was awesome. I really would love to see more intelligent people giving takes on the red pill and manosphere and general advice on how to navigate it.. There are a lot of ego investments and just lack of nuance on these topics which are really easy to get emotional about. However, on the other side, there just aren’t enough people talking about it at all for it to get the proper scrutiny it needs for there to be genuine insights from it. A lot of times the conversations will simply stop on step 1 and not go further, rather it will just be repeated over and over again.
Your looking for exceptions to rule to hang onto instead of accepting the general truth. You’re trying to operate on possibilities not probabilities. Your argument seems emotional.
@@antfinn5003 Usually when people say the RP lacks nuance they are saying because they are unable to accept the hard truths of the RP because if they did it would put their past decisions they’ve made in their love life in a negative light. Plus very little people are actually qualified to debate RP topics because to be able to debate RP you need to have the biological and psychological knowledge of intersexual dynamics and you also need A LOT of dating experience and success with women. Most of the detractors of the RP either only have one of those or none of them, hence why the RP seems crazy to them.
@@barkwetmuhvondurton9275 I didn’t say the RP was crazy, I said that there is a lack of nuance in the discussions around it. I agree, very few people are qualified to speak on it, and I think that those are the people who are mostly talking about it.
@@antfinn5003 Well i could agree to an extent on the point about nuance but I still think the nuance it needs would be minor. Also when you say the people talking about aren’t qualified to talk about it I assume your talking about the most popular content creators like F&F and KS right?
One theory on tattoos, piercings, etc: Our social selves evolved in small groups whete "standing out" for finding a mate was not very important. Our social brains cannot distinguish between how many potential mates we see in person or on TV, in movies, etc. Our social brains drive us to stand out from the crowd. If you are not recognized at a distance as distinct, less chance you will keepbeing noticed as unique. Once hair color and tattooing became commonplace, peircings enabled standing out even more. Curious what the guest and host would think about this.
Chris, As a 59 year old happily married (32 years) Christian man, this is way too biological for me. I categorize my relationship with my wife in a spiritual dimension pretty quickly and the bio stuff is pretty secondary. Just my perspective. Cheers!
g..yes the best variable to look for.That is what my mate says now. AFTER he has experienced decades of the benefits: interest in many of the same subjects, both avid readers...never feeling that the other person is ignoring you just because their nose is in a book 80% of their waking hours. Prefering each others company than groups of most other people. Never being at a loss for meaningful conversation. KNOWING how to invest for a future. Knowing how to maintain health into retirement age etc etc etc.
smoking pot made me start seeing human behaviour in an ev psych way in the eighties, so this current cultural movement is quite nostalgic for me, in a way. I thought, 'Why doesn't everybody see or admit this?' These days, I would supplement the leadings of instincts with the absolute freedom of thought or reason, which is not constrained to evolutionary selection dynamics, as instincts are.
So as a diabetic 5'5 man that's mentally traumatized enough to be basically useless and fear closeness with others, my odds are good right? I don't mind resigning from the dating world anyway. It's been a huge waste of time, except for when someone is interested in the short term, and that's only when I was big due to hitting the gym everyday for hours, not something I can do anymore.
Would love to read up more on this topic! Im studying behavioural ecology (animals) at the moment and applied to human behaviour many things now make so much sense. Any other books recommended on this topic? Cheers
I can’t keep up with all the great book recommendations! Would really appreciate if you could kindly list the articles and books you cite for reference. Thank you.
What is fundamental in everything Is politics more correct then evolutionary psychology or evolutionary mechanism? First thing where now tell me how the hair should I skip so that my stamina doesn't do also quickly
25:22. This not accurate. Lighter eyes see better in the dark. Northern Europe has much long periods of darkness than in lower latitudes, so having slightly better night vision is highly adaptive. Northern latitude Asians in Siberia and Mongolia for example also have lighter colored eyes and hair. Hair color is more or less just a spectrum of color from white to black. With black providing the most UV protection. It makes sense for places with less sunlight to have lighter colored hair to allow more sunlight to reach the scalp. Of course, sexual selection also plays a factor, but over a very long period of time, traits will more or less match environment.
I feel like Chris' guest had an attack of old-people syndrome when he was talking about dating. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but if you are using dating apps to find a permanent partner, you will either overestimate the value of compatibility ratings, or underestimate the necessity of building a relationship offline. On the other hand, if you use a dating app for one night stands, you can be an amazing match for almost anyone for just a couple weeks before moving on to the next person. Also, again, perhaps too cynical, but I have heard of maybe 2 or 3 times when someone's ex gave a rational, dispassionate, well articulated list of points for the other person to improve upon for future dating prospects. In my experiences, and with many of my friends, breakups are emotional, based on many petty moments adding up over time as opposed to any particular "great sins", and not articulate at all.
I think your show is amazing and I really appreciate your work. Have you ever looked at dr greger’s work on nutrition and health benefits. I think you would enjoy his work. Love to see a podcast with u and him
This makes me cry. Having lived in such violence with a male father… and seeing all the violence in the world and I hate it so much… I’ve still always loved men (as half of our species) but this helps more deeply understand all these horrible violences in the world and behind all these closed doors in the world. We gotta find a way to channel energy all the way out of humanity~emotional and physical violence both! This is a world of so much pain for so many people! I actually think this info, presented in this way, can lead to healing in a beautiful direction for the sexes. ❤️
You might also find a lot of insight from Dr. Gabor Mate, not about relationships, but about why people struggle with themselves in general. That also helps explain violent behaviors, and victim behavior as well.
Interesting hypothesis by Chris at around 1:10:26 (or a minute before that) suggesting that "Simp shaming exists because if simps throw easy gifts at women, all men have to up their allocation of gifts and treats" However, I don't think he's correct here. Why? Because, as explained by many of the pick-up artists he's mentioned earlier, giving gifts to women has the opposite effect, makes you more unattractive. Men do better by sending out a signal of "you're not getting free stuff from me, honey - I'm not the type of needy guy who bribes women". Simping just makes the man with values stand out all the more clearly. In contrast - giving out free sex is, for women, much less likely to be turned down - although in terms of getting a long-term mate, it's less beneficial. But simping has near ZERO success for a man.
Wrong. This is totally location dependent. It's mainly only in very sick psychotic societies like America and Canada where being "nice" and giving gifts, turns women off and is repulsive. It's due to their faulty programming and brainwashing. In a normal healthy society, being nice is appreciated and giving gifts isn't "simping". Men are naturally ingrained to protect AND provide, giving gifts is a signal of provision capability, and it makes the man feel good and it SHOULD make the girl feel good.
@@nightkingxx actually I do. If a man doesn't enjoy giving gifts and doing nice things for people (not just for women, but for everyone) then he is a bad person, a potential sociopath or psychopath. A normal healthy person (not just man but woman also) should feel good from doing good things for other people.
Great episode. I would take issue with the guests comment about height where he implies, 6'2 is more attractive than 5'2. That depends. Is many parts of Asia a 6'2 height would be viewed as a disability even ridiculed. I think the more accurate parameter just be a guy taller than the height of an average woman in any given area of the world.
This guy is low-key but a genius. I'm going to check out Mate and read it to my son(s). I learned from Doc Love about this stuff 18 years ago, but he's dead now, so it's great to find more people who really understand (and appreciate) what women want and share it in digestible ways. Also, 100% agree that a smart woman is worth more than gold.
1:00:08 'if men give resources or commitment without sex it cheapens the value of resources and commitment' - how can it possibly be that way and how can it work out in reality in the courting realm? why do we need to bring up goods exchange tactics here? Sensible women who respect themselves would not participate in this 'stock exchange', we are talking about the relationship between human beings after all. It just does not sound right for me as a woman here either to be bombarded with gifts or to participate in trading my body for commitment or gifts. I would not like to think that the man who is willing to commit to a relationship with me is bargaining it for sex with me. Woman's commitment to a relationship is not giving away her body as a man's commitment is not giving away gifts. And how about those women who prefer not to have premarital sex? do they not deserve gifts or men who would be interested in marrying them?
Hello cult members. Here's the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:30 Why Women Aren’t Having Children Anymore
08:20 Evolutionary Psychology After 22 Years
16:23 What All Married Couples Need to Know
28:18 Responding to Critics of Evolutionary Psychology
32:32 The Difference Between Beauty & Hotness
44:08 The Psychology of Social Groups
54:26 Geoffrey’s Thoughts on the Manosphere
1:04:18 How Twitter Shows Human Nature
1:09:04 Is there an Increase of Slut & Simp-shaming?
1:25:24 Should Dating Apps be Banned?
1:32:56 Importance of Existential Risk
1:40:45 Where to Find Geoffrey
Its a natural instinct of a woman if she's attracted to the partner enough and his marriage material to want a child with him. If not then the partner isn't marriage material or fulfilling the females need.
THANKS FOR THIS CONVERSATION CHRIS. Geoffrey is a star.
@@GuidetteExpert Certainly is. Because it's a point where her natural anxiety has calmed down, she recognises that it's due to his presence and she wants that situation to continue. And at some level she's aware that by having a child with him, she's locking him to her.
Chris!! Get Professor Edward Dutton on, please!
Andy Lewis im speaking from a female perspective that there is a natural feeling of wanting a baby that only happens with the right man that fulfils her needs and reasures her that he will stick around. Seeing your spouse following instagram models and liking their pictures can shut down that feeling of wanting a baby with him.
My biggest takeaway from this is the fact that evolutionary psychology is a new concept to some people. I never considered the possibility that it wasn't clearly obvious to everyone else. Really clears up a lot of confusion I've had over the years.
Have you discovered self-deception and stupidity? Mind blowing.
You are slowly becoming my new favorite podcaster on TH-cam Chris. Love this interview!!!
Quickly for me.
Yes, I can’t believe how young he is and still so versatile in his speech and personality. A rare one Chris is.
Geoffrey's way of having an argument with his wife is pure genius! I love it!
I wish one day to have that same level of self control and understanding to mock myself, even in anger.
It reminds me of the book The Way of the Peaceful Warrior I've just finished, where one of the most important lessons is humor, not taking life too seriously.
What Mr Miller said about the women and the feedback to them is absolutely correct! I feel in today's world, we mix up all issues and forget that women have problems they have to fix. I’m a fervent defendant of women but still believe in calling out women's BS. Both can exist!
This dating angle is so lucrative that every TH-camr is hip to it. People are much lonelier than ever before, dating is in turmoil and childless couples rising. But it's ok because you're working for a tech company lol
He's not a youtuber, he's a cool professor.
@Red Robyn lmao 🤣
Just because people are married doesn’t mean they don’t feel lonely though... there’s a lot of married people who are suffering in silence and think they have to remain married because until death do us part thing... life is too short to stay in an unhappy unfulfilled marriage men and women
Women want to suppress this information and manipulate it in the worst way possible for the sole purpose of skirting accountability in their ho phase. They don't care if it destroys the world. THANKS WOMEN.
@@eheheh3263 how do you know they are suffering in silence? you are just making a baseless accusation to seemingly support your own bias
Thanks Chris for really exploring the topics surrounding modern fertility and dating. Its a really important issue to bring to light. We're well and truly done if the current trend continues without intervention.
I cannot understand why this podcast doesn't have millions of views, because every person alived in this world should listen to it. Thank you for your work Chris and Geoffrey, this is amazing.
That it isn't mainstream is an indicator of its quality
I’m sure Chris would be canceled if he got big. So don’t wish for this to get big.
@20:24 “you’ll almost never see actors in a serious adult drama actually make fun of their own reactions in a kind of wise and insightful way” what a gem of a quote
@23:28 “your brain isn’t this all seeing and all knowing thing. You can use the same tricks it’s trying to play on you against itself.” Gold!
My dad is a great role model, he managed to stay married to a woman who while is very smart is very difficult to live with. I am so glad he did, it’s been a blessing to us kids and I am so glad I grew up in a two parent household. As a woman I have a great male role model and an example of how to stay married long term. I can take his advice of what he did right and what he did wrong so I can make the best choice for me.
your dad chose to have a life full of stress instead of having a great life with an obedient, submissive woman as it must have been. Congrats
@@SmarterTebya grow up
@@christophlindinger2267 man up
@@SmarterTebya am married and have two wonderful daughters. Running my own business. What are you doing?
@@christophlindinger2267 👏👏👏👏 love your response! People like Mike…they are best ignored as they tend to be complete losers and bitter.
@14:30 I love what he said about simply understanding the differences between men and women (rather than making any judgement on them) then just moving forward with that in mind.
1:13:43 - 1:14:12
Spot on! I feel like we as men lack the proper role models in our lives that we actually have a tangible connection with, rather than just some random famous person that we look up to that inspire us, sure we need that as well. But it's like we're forced into a life where we have to imitate behavior instead of being taught.
By design.....feminism, toxic masculinity rhetoric, abusive family courts. All this is by design to collapse a society.
“There’s no expiration date on human wisdom.” 1:41:10. There does seem to be a resistance to listening to wise thoughts.
Our entire field of psychology is under attack. So yes Jordan Peterson videos, videos like these, Busse etc are the best way to learn what people SHOULD learn as foundations of psychology.
Just having Geoffrey in your show lets me know you are the real deal. Totally just subbed.
Let's get David Buss on the show
He's already been on!
@@ChrisWillx found it! Thx
@@ChrisWillx lol
Really glad that he pointed out the differences between how men and women "fight".
With men, it's physical most of the time... physicality is easily visible and understandingly shut down. Women, on the other hand, wage war with words... and that is still completely fair game. Not saying men don't do this as well, but women perfected it... and if you won't put up with it, you're considered weak by many.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying take out your pitchforks and demonize women for this (because again, men do it too), just pointing out that is so rarely talked in terms of "violence"/abuse...there are a lot of emotionally abused partners out there.
Important caveat here, though:
Physical fights between men usually ends up with them being friends. Or at least finding some mutual respect, because they defended themselves.
Whereas women who fight, physically or with words, they are enemies for life.
So maybe we shouldn't be so quick to shut down physical fights involving men..
Don't accuse me of being a feminist, but I reckon 3/4's the time when a wife murders a husband, he probably deserved it! ;)
@@isee7668 what? Please don't pass down your genetics. Let it end with you.
Physical vs the woman's adaptive ability as the physically weaker sex to harness the power of words
@@karthik197 kf we can't make fun of horrible topics, what else to do?
59:15 When you put yourself in the shoes of a woman it almost feels natural to want a man who is ideally assertive, kind, financially stable, fit, healthy, good looking, tall, big, strong - all these things that generally the manosphere doesn't seem to realize.
I also keep thinking about if I were to get a daughter, I would be on her case constantly about getting a man who is pretty much most of these traits. (obviously stressing some more than others)
Sounds kind of narcisistic. What if the guy is too assertive and makes your daughter into a submissive gangbang slut for the homeboys who she will eventually get her pregant and dump her on a sidewalk because she didn't take her birthcontrol pills?
Lol I know right. Manosphere guys are the left overs who couldn't overcome. Don't listen to them. They're delusional. No freaking way I'd want either of my two daughters to date bums like them. Sucks for them. But thats the game man.
Which more ?
That's all great, just don't expect Chad to stick around.. he has all the options, his genetics don't come for free.
@@torachan23 and also to not want one who is partying all the time, spends every weekend in clubs, has a social media feed filled with half naked pictures, has lip job and fake boobs done and so on
My big existential risk is that education has become incredibly top-heavy, especially in engineering. Very few people, including so called experts, understand the entire system any more, compared to like a century ago.
And related, our informational exchange is surpassing our organizational capacity.
That is an interesting take, would you say that scales with the field size, like is it moreso in big fields like mechanical for example vs a small field like biosystems or metallurgy? Being a metallurgist most good college professors in the field are former industry types, like a 70/30 split
@@steelwarrior105 it might not be as much of an issue in a field like that, but the issue isn't so much field size as the reach and depth of technology generating products and concepts beyond the common ability to understand them.
When I was in undergrad, my thermo professor's exams were all on file in the library going back to the start of his career. Because they didn't have graphing calculators back then (now about 50 years ago), the exams were about demonstrating basic knowledge of the field. In my day in school, we did have graphing calculators, so we could be expected to solve complex problems on the exams. And then when I taught the same subject, students were looking up homework solutions on the internet and often just memorized a basic approach instead of learning how to do the problems.
The people who move on in these fields don't necessarily really understand how the field works anymore, the technology involved gives a veneer of understanding that isn't actually necessarily there. The internet does this, computers/programming does this, accumulating scientific research does this. We are a society operating on TMI and too much tech. We need to dig down into how to get people to truly understand core topics, how to organize and synthesize the enormous amounts of information we've generated over the past century or so. I think it's certainly humanly possible to do this, the trick is for us to start doing it. A good first step would be to take the education of students as seriously as the generation of scientific break throughs. This is a huge challenge because the humanities and social sciences hold the keys to that, and the physical sciences rarely comingle with those areas of study.
@@pmberkeley Part of the problem is poor education and perception. I teach engineering students how to overcome this often, and I give many real world examples. I use the lessons I teach every day in my job designing the most powerful computers on earth. Yes, some things are very complex, but it depends upon how you approach it as well.
@@SoloRenegade I've known a lot of electrical engineers and computer scientists, and many of them have no idea what mechanical engineers learn or how it can help their computer or electrical designs. For example, the state of 3D printers is stunted by the fact that they're mostly designed by electrical engineers/CS people, who have poor knowledge of how to heat the bed evenly for proper adhesion and programmers of the printing path don't design for optimal material strength.
My point stands. You don't know what you don't know, and neither do your students. Our technology is sufficiently complex that the entire education system needs to be retooled lest we increasingly develop below our actual knowledge base. A major limiting factor in this is how few engineers, for example, understand pedagogy or engage in the philosophy of science.
@@pmberkeley WTF are you accusing me of? you have no idea what I do and don't know. Don't blame me for your personal failures, nor the failures of other engineers. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean Nobody does. It's not your fault you received a poor education on this issue, most engineers and engineering students are being give a poor education on it.
But you have No idea what my argument is, no ideas what I do/don't know, and so you have NO basis for coming after me and making accusations against me.
You are bitter and you seem to want to blame everyone else rather than take some ownership of your life. If others didn't teach you properly, then seek out those like me who can help (not that I'm keen on helping you now at this point), or self-learn on your own and figure it out. If you're an engineer, then prove it by figuring it out and coming up with a solution, as I did!
Chris, I would love to see Lori Gottlieb as one of your guests. She is a psychotherapist who wrote a book called Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough. She delves into the standards that women have for men in dating and why many of them are keeping women from finding a good partner.
Because tora isn’t it obvious that society places more love and care into women than men. Society simps for women trhey are the little delicate lambs remember? 😂 my arse mate
Ha! My husband is always laughing at me when I'm angry about something stupid. It helps so much.
No homo, but Geoffrey Miller changed my life, I’m from Mexico and I translate some of his ideas to Spanish and I taught to my friends and family and they are fascinated.
Glad you chatted with him. He was on Gad Saad's channel a couple of years ago and he needs much more exposure. Great discussion.
The point about seeing dating from the woman's perspective is incredibly valuable. My only contention is that it really seems like more men have an understanding of the issues women have with dating than women have an understanding of men's. I don't think I've rarely ever seen anyone tell women to step out of themselves and consider what the man they're going out with or talking to is having to deal with except for the "manosphere". It's rare to find clips from The View or ticktok or whatever saying "judging all men based off of the ones you've had experience with is not fair and you should be more introspective and see the common denominator is your choices" or "well maybe that guy you wanted to approach you won't because you're obnoxious" or " you really shouldn't lie to a man about how you really feel about him just because you dont want to upset him. You're not sparing his feelings by not saying no, you're sparing your own ego. Acting like that will just push you to ghost him, which is much more cruel and disrespectful than telling him you're not interested"
Idk you can all tell me I'm wrong. That's normally what happens when I give my opinion
When they were discussing the evolutionary aspects, women seem to not be able to get past the physically dominant men or the very successful men while they believe society has now opened the doors for them to be able to do whatever they would like.
Ideally, men and women having more freedom to live the way they want would be the best outcome. However, schooling takes much too long and young people are not financially in a good spot.
Münecat sent me here. Geoffrey comes across as reasonable and well educated. I really enjoyed listening to this podcast. 🙂
3:10 Wow, right out of the gate a mind blower - I had never considered this angle about long term sexual relationship without children.
There's a turmoil with knowing the odds of ending up in probate court and losing income is a real turn off .
Dr. JOHN GRAY, would be the best guest regarding male and female relationships. He was the OG in this field and was married for 30 years till his wife passed on. And he was totally monogamous and was a Buddhist monk who abstained for years and is a zen master of meditation. And he had several kids with her and now several grandkids.
Is he the same one who wrote _The Boy Crisis_ with Warren Farrell?
If he was married for forever and a monk, what would he possibly know about female and male relationships?
@@wyleecoyotee4252 this type of question is addressed in the video here.
Could you bring on a female evolutionary psychologist for dating advice specifically tailored towards women?
His wife is one
Don't taking dating advice from trad supporters unless you want to become a submissive subservient glorified slave
@Andrei Georgescu
Not on any meds and not a granny
@@wyleecoyotee4252 ah yes the classic "everyone in this category is best characterized as an extremist bozo", gotta love how that keeps appearing in comment sections.
Mate is my favourite book of all time, and The Mating Grounds Podcast is my favourite podcast of all time. I highly recommend the book and the podcast to any male who wants to delve deeper into dating advice that is based on science and evolutionary psychology!
G Miller is an absolute badass. Evolutionary psychology is the rosetta stone to human behavior. Tens of thousands of years of strategy and relentless survival.
Got smarter listening to this.
He's a child. He spends time on Twitter, not with great art, literature, etc.
A badass? Maybe rewatch his first few words on this podcast
I love the book "mate"! Just finished it today. Can't wait to read Diana's upcoming book because we need a guide for women!
I haven't heard from her for a while. She's the funnest, sexiest woman in academia.
To your final points, Chris... I sense a strong likelihood that there are many people attempting to be THE exestential threat podcasters, but they are being sensored and we will likely never hear their cries. This was a great discussion, regardless.
Great content!! Society is undergoing a significant evolution resulting from ever consuming technology. Thoughtful discussion of this phenomenon is both fascinating and therapeutic, with a thumps up for sure!! ty
Man Chris you are killing it getting fantastic guests on!
Should have asked him about his poly lifestyle in regards to long term relationships
2:05 notice how chris is already ready to ask (or agree on the matter) another question, but hesitates and makes a move towards further discussion on the subject that had momentarily aroused an interest in him. that what makes a good interviewer. following the script, but gradually making your way to build up a normal conversation, which requires lots of self explanation to reach a common understanding for the participants and the viewers
12:20 "where do undergrads go" mostly podcasts and recorded lectures. Jordan Peterson's 2017 personality course recordings, here, Brett Weinstein, Lex Fridman had a guest who talked about human evolution recently. Unfortunately I don't feel my peers and I have the wisdom to select who to listen to well. At a proper university we would have a team of older, vastly more educated adults to guide us.
All I have now are youtubers/podcasters who are doing some mix of educating me out of generosity and harnessing my attention for financial gain. And an algorithm that only wants financial gain.
And they're trying to take all that away from you.
I'm in very similar situation. I watch the same lectures and podcasts you mentioned, probably read similar books and I am 20 yo. But all my friends in real life aren't interested in these sort of things.
Would you like to talk a bit about these topics?
I really would like to have someone to talk about ev psych and those topics
I don't admire anyone but myself. I enjoy listening to various perspectives and I don't limit my possibilities. I am open to evolve and dare I say it devolve.
11:22 Wow, it is a hell of a thing that a qualified psychologist suggests Chris Williamson's show over some college courses!
Don't hate the player OR the game. Just don't hate. Enjoy the gift that is life.
I remember a hypothesis regarding green/blue eyes was that it’s much easier to recognize pupil dilation of light colored eyes compared to that of darker eyes, so that sexual arousal is more recognizable/less likely to fake.
I personally think it's just the climate, just like with white skin blue eyes mite just be a way to see better in a colder climate/ don't need as much protection against the sun.
Green eyes mite also be the same however to a lesser extent, more the eye colour that's between the two as in blue and brown/ black eyes, just like red hair mite be the step between blonde and dark hair.
It just seems strange to me that the European descendants are far more distinct in terms of hair and eye colours, were as most other races/ breeds of humans it's very rare and mite just be because they had an ancestors that mixed more then the simple answer that it happening naturally all over the world because its not very common at all, and the explanation it can happen to anyone from anywhere answer they try and give, when you try to get an answer is just because they don't really know why they are all just having a rough estimate.
But then again, we are a lot more individualistic maybe that's why, and maybe that's part of the reason Europeans mite have been becoming a distinct spices / very specialised version/ breed of humans, maybe left alone for longer the European mite have been a lot more visually appealing/ distinct at lest in hair and eye colours maybe having a few even rare types, but it's all just stabs in the dark at this time.
So many book recommendations in this episode, kind of overwhelmed when "You should read this" was mentioned 10 times. I can hardly read 6 books in a year
did you note them down? been looking for a comment that did cos i didn't myself
@@Tom-qo4mz no I didn't
no contraception since highschool. very choosy due to childhood reasons
🚀 another brilliant podcast can’t wait for prt 2 on existential risk
Wow! I'd never thought of the parallel between simp-shaming and slut-shaming before, but it seems quite obvious now that I think about it. Really interesting stuff. Thanks!
In regards to the dating apps.
I disagree with Dr. Miller here as I feel like at one point in time dating apps were helpful, even useful. But that point in time was long ago.
While I believe that an outright ban is untenable, a series of regulations around the construction of said apps that facilitate the creation of systems designed to limit the excesses of hypergamy and the Pareto principle should be done.
Even if I and many others refuse to use these apps.
Nah dude. We shouldn’t HAVE a need for dating apps 😂😂😂 just go talk to a girl loo
Agreed.
The dating apps are not going anywhere because the gynocentric social order wants them to be around. They benefit women and their need for hypergamy the most. If there are any changes made, it will be either to make the average guys pay more or shame the top 10% of the guys that stick it and quit it.
“That’s fucking in-tear-esting.” -Chris Williamson
Desmond Morris deserves at least a mention.
Another great episode! 🙏 A small feedback would be to just quickly explain concepts that might require some prior knowledge very quickly. I listen as a podcast on the move and cannot always pause and Google. Thanks!
A problem with a lot of these academics is that they are subject to social pressures that may restrict them from drawing some uncomfortable conclusions. If an academic does work but draws a very impolite or dangerous conclusion that may reveal something about the human condition, they will alter their conclusion because the reputation risk and/or career-social risk is too great. They are subject to ideological constraints that other people who do not fall under the rubric of "professional" or "academic" are not restrained by. Now, the question is whether that's a good thing which for many cases it is but those constraints and by virtue incomplete analysis remains nonetheless. It's applying a personal morality to science or observed behavior to guide a certain moralistic/value driven/ideological narrative versus simply presenting the case with the information and having people draw their own conclusions from the facts.
That's whats observed by people who denigrate the guys who went out into their own lives and accumulated data on their own through trial and error and compiling data/information and compared notes in forums. People have a problem with this method because it does not take into account the ethical requirements of a "professional" or "academic" study but one could argue that that information actually presents a more raw data set because it is not constrained by institutional social pressures. The information may be uncomfortable but would people rather be happy or right? That is the ethical question which inevitably leads to things like the "noble lie". Unfortunately, intersexual dynamics in the internet exposure age with recorded data over a large sample size and time frame are revealing some pretty uncomfortable trends that are now making it near impossible to ignore and therefore confronting people to make decisions on how to react/respond.
If the answer is obvious, who the hell has ever made a living by explaining the obvious?
Oh okay so I should consider the experiences by some random men over the academic studies by professional academics because there is academic pressure to ignore certain explanations. Got it.
You are just claiming that academics are forced to come to a certain conclusion via social pressure because their conclusion disagrees with your conclusion
The fact that you think that guys compiling data from their own experiences and comparing them in forums is just as credible as academics studying the particular topic because academics are forced to comply to a certain ideology is delusional.
@@Droselover-hu1gt There are no difference between men and women because the certificate people tell me so and the screen people confirm it
The interview is a winner and explained those tats and neck bands. The F-word thrown in by Chris caused me to doubt my hearing for a second. It's OK though.
I can't fathom attraction + not wanting to have babies with that person. People are so broken.
Excellent talk. What an interesting guy, and you both seemed to have conversation points that brought out the deeper levels of the topic knowledge from each other. 👍👍
talk about this topic:
how intelligent species can go extinct because their dating strategies got too ridiculous LOL
That's actually quite funny hahah
I think of Bill Burr when he says technology will just replace us. Sex dolls will become more and more human like…and people will prefer them to actual humans, and eventually we will go extinct.
@@anneb889 If “we” means the West, then yes. The West will be demographically replaced by more marriage/family/population growth cultures and people. This isn’t actually any bit surprising. Just 800 years ago, the whole of North & South America was populated by completely different groups of people, now look? Heck, 1000 years ago the people who are the modern day Turks, were a bunch of Mongolian tribes wandering the Central Asian steppe, with East Asian features.
Many species have gone extinct and humans are not the exception...
@@MomoSimone22
male bird: check out my wings
female bird: i've seen bigger
male bird: check out my colorful tail
female bird: nah, i've seen better
male bird: check out how fast i fly
female bird: let me try throwing a rock - my rock is faster than you
male bird: stfu
female bird: misogynist
Not exactly a critic, but damn Chris you’re sayin’ “fuck” and “fucking” alot 😂
I noticed that this episode haha. It really stood out.
Chris, I recommend interviewing Isaac Arthur. He has a space and futurism TH-cam channel that's far better than anything you'll find on TV or almost any other TH-cam channel
Try teaching measurement of IQ now the social psychologists have wrongly convinced so many people that either IQ varies due to social.status because of resources etc they get outraged by the the fact that IQ is 50% heritable so they argue that there are many "intelligences"social intelligence, emotional intelligence (which are instead personality factors such as openness, extroversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, neuroticism).Teaching anything to undergrads about intelligence is just fraught with politics.
found your channel recently and have been watching all day for the past few days, some great stuff you have here. thanks for the amazing content
Ooooooh this is so great, I was waiting for this conversation
Only real ones know about Eben Pagan aka David DeAngelo. Respect to Mr. Miller.
Fantastic show. My only want from this episode would have been for him to elaborate on how apps like Tinder affects the marriage rates…
He said you can’t focus on 20% getting the 80% of the opposite sex, but instead should focus on marriage rates; HOWEVER, it ruins marriage rates due to the casuality (new word there folks) of hooking up and addiction to attention.
Plus, those 80% getting with the 20% may become bitter, resentful, pregnant, have kids from hooking up, STDs.
Imagine thinking you have this amazing person, and then you get discarded because something better came along or you found out you’re one of many…
You shouldn't have this notion by the time you marry someone. Don't meet people you plan on starting a relationship with on the app. Join a class. Or do something public. Challenge yourself to meet a girl in public. Whom you've never spoken too. Just start waving at girls see what they do. I started doing this in my car when you stop at a light beside someone just wave at them. See what they do. Alot of this stuff. The online tinder situations and what not degrade men's charisma because they feel like they're competing with every Chad with abs. Lol
And I just wave at people for fun to screw with them. Lol me and my kids do it now. Haha it's hilarious. Fuck I still cat call women sometimes blow them kisses when I drive by one girl went so red she almost dropped her bags blushing to wave back at me. Lol
X risk guy is Canadian Prepper on TH-cam. He’s the very best channel on all of it
well done brother,amazing podcast!!!we are much alike in the sense that i recently got out of the 'nightlife' and i started reading books and listening to podcasts to educate myself and you provide great content...lots of love and respect and keep doing what you do,and consider inviting neuroscientists and tal ben sahar or someone similar about positive pshychology its life changing material
The dads and grand dads didnt have a theoretical framework for how to find a mate. Maybe they had some instinct or unnamed skill, but they couldnt put words on why it worked for them. They had no internet for learning such things. Its hard to teach something you cannot express in words.
Chris this was a masterful interview, great job. Gonna add 'Mate' to my reading list
It was one of the most impactful books of my life, the podcast was damn good too
Im looking for this book, but cant find. The book linked is 'What women want', is it the same book?
@@benjams5743 Correct, What Women Want is the same book
Wow! I’ve been looking for discussions on the emotional impact of a childless relationship for 10 years!!!
Why should we bring children here just because of amatonormativity? Hard to avoid any cognitive biases but it seems like the government as a byproduct of agricultural/pastoral revolution will always be in need for more consumers, wage-slaves and cannon fodder regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent.
Excellent conversation guys. Thanks for what you all do. ❤
I’m 25 and the thought of having a child in this current state of the world is scary af
While we are reflecting on the stats of the reduction in child bearing..
Perhaps we should place side by side with those stats..
the vast number of people who have lived truly horrible lives, because the pregnancy that bore them was unwanted in the first place.
They only see things as top 10%ers.
Chris- please get Tanner Guzy of Masculine Style on! (cmon guys, let's upvote this so chris sees it)
Loved the section at @1:19:29 about students not accepting feedback. I'm seeing this with colleagues moreso.
This was awesome. I really would love to see more intelligent people giving takes on the red pill and manosphere and general advice on how to navigate it.. There are a lot of ego investments and just lack of nuance on these topics which are really easy to get emotional about. However, on the other side, there just aren’t enough people talking about it at all for it to get the proper scrutiny it needs for there to be genuine insights from it. A lot of times the conversations will simply stop on step 1 and not go further, rather it will just be repeated over and over again.
Your looking for exceptions to rule to hang onto instead of accepting the general truth. You’re trying to operate on possibilities not probabilities. Your argument seems emotional.
@@barkwetmuhvondurton9275 what do you think my argument is?
@@antfinn5003 Usually when people say the RP lacks nuance they are saying because they are unable to accept the hard truths of the RP because if they did it would put their past decisions they’ve made in their love life in a negative light. Plus very little people are actually qualified to debate RP topics because to be able to debate RP you need to have the biological and psychological knowledge of intersexual dynamics and you also need A LOT of dating experience and success with women. Most of the detractors of the RP either only have one of those or none of them, hence why the RP seems crazy to them.
@@barkwetmuhvondurton9275 I didn’t say the RP was crazy, I said that there is a lack of nuance in the discussions around it. I agree, very few people are qualified to speak on it, and I think that those are the people who are mostly talking about it.
@@antfinn5003 Well i could agree to an extent on the point about nuance but I still think the nuance it needs would be minor. Also when you say the people talking about aren’t qualified to talk about it I assume your talking about the most popular content creators like F&F and KS right?
Fantastic episode, Chris! Please invite Richard Grannon - he has a wealth of knowledge on so many different topics. Absolutely love your dedication
Would be great to do what Tim Ferriss does and link all the mentioned books in the show
LOVE Geoffrey Miller. Such a voice of reason and brilliant in the field of evo psych. Thanks for having him on your show!
One theory on tattoos, piercings, etc:
Our social selves evolved in small groups whete "standing out" for finding a mate was not very important.
Our social brains cannot distinguish between how many potential mates we see in person or on TV, in movies, etc.
Our social brains drive us to stand out from the crowd. If you are not recognized at a distance as distinct, less chance you will keepbeing noticed as unique.
Once hair color and tattooing became commonplace, peircings enabled standing out even more.
Curious what the guest and host would think about this.
Great episode, enjoyed listening to an interesting and level headed discussion. Keep up the good work!
Chris, As a 59 year old happily married (32 years) Christian man, this is way too biological for me. I categorize my relationship with my wife in a spiritual dimension pretty quickly and the bio stuff is pretty secondary. Just my perspective. Cheers!
Should show this to kids in middle school and high school. Before they get tattoos
This is doubling down on what has not worked. Or maybe it's necessary for the sheltered, overwrought, overpampered suburbs.
Oh yes I was waiting for an Interviem with an Evolutionary Psychologist for so long.
Thank you Chris for making it hapen.
g..yes the best variable to look for.That is what my mate says now. AFTER he has experienced decades of the benefits: interest in many of the same subjects, both avid readers...never feeling that the other person is ignoring you just because their nose is in a book 80% of their waking hours. Prefering each others company than groups of most other people. Never being at a loss for meaningful conversation. KNOWING how to invest for a future. Knowing how to maintain health into retirement age etc etc etc.
smoking pot made me start seeing human behaviour in an ev psych way in the eighties, so this current cultural movement is quite nostalgic for me, in a way. I thought, 'Why doesn't everybody see or admit this?' These days, I would supplement the leadings of instincts with the absolute freedom of thought or reason, which is not constrained to evolutionary selection dynamics, as instincts are.
So as a diabetic 5'5 man that's mentally traumatized enough to be basically useless and fear closeness with others, my odds are good right? I don't mind resigning from the dating world anyway. It's been a huge waste of time, except for when someone is interested in the short term, and that's only when I was big due to hitting the gym everyday for hours, not something I can do anymore.
Would love to read up more on this topic! Im studying behavioural ecology (animals) at the moment and applied to human behaviour many things now make so much sense. Any other books recommended on this topic? Cheers
I can’t keep up with all the great book recommendations! Would really appreciate if you could kindly list the articles and books you cite for reference. Thank you.
Great that he mentioned David deangelo!!!
What is fundamental in everything
Is politics more correct then evolutionary psychology or evolutionary mechanism?
First thing where now tell me how the hair should I skip so that my stamina doesn't do also quickly
25:22. This not accurate. Lighter eyes see better in the dark. Northern Europe has much long periods of darkness than in lower latitudes, so having slightly better night vision is highly adaptive. Northern latitude Asians in Siberia and Mongolia for example also have lighter colored eyes and hair. Hair color is more or less just a spectrum of color from white to black. With black providing the most UV protection. It makes sense for places with less sunlight to have lighter colored hair to allow more sunlight to reach the scalp. Of course, sexual selection also plays a factor, but over a very long period of time, traits will more or less match environment.
That was an awesome conversation. Well done Chris.
58:40 “ idiot thoughts from Miami “ 😂 can I guess F&F
I feel like Chris' guest had an attack of old-people syndrome when he was talking about dating. Maybe I'm just too cynical, but if you are using dating apps to find a permanent partner, you will either overestimate the value of compatibility ratings, or underestimate the necessity of building a relationship offline. On the other hand, if you use a dating app for one night stands, you can be an amazing match for almost anyone for just a couple weeks before moving on to the next person.
Also, again, perhaps too cynical, but I have heard of maybe 2 or 3 times when someone's ex gave a rational, dispassionate, well articulated list of points for the other person to improve upon for future dating prospects. In my experiences, and with many of my friends, breakups are emotional, based on many petty moments adding up over time as opposed to any particular "great sins", and not articulate at all.
I think your show is amazing and I really appreciate your work. Have you ever looked at dr greger’s work on nutrition and health benefits. I think you would enjoy his work. Love to see a podcast with u and him
This makes me cry. Having lived in such violence with a male father… and seeing all the violence in the world and I hate it so much… I’ve still always loved men (as half of our species) but this helps more deeply understand all these horrible violences in the world and behind all these closed doors in the world. We gotta find a way to channel energy all the way out of humanity~emotional and physical violence both! This is a world of so much pain for so many people! I actually think this info, presented in this way, can lead to healing in a beautiful direction for the sexes. ❤️
You might also find a lot of insight from Dr. Gabor Mate, not about relationships, but about why people struggle with themselves in general. That also helps explain violent behaviors, and victim behavior as well.
Fantastic 🔥 content
I've given up on Main stream media.
All the best interviews are online
Why are you swearing so much? Your guest is so softly spoken and polite it's really incongruous.
Danny this is a year old but he's a grown man on his podcast. I hope you grew a little
Interesting hypothesis by Chris at around 1:10:26 (or a minute before that) suggesting that "Simp shaming exists because if simps throw easy gifts at women, all men have to up their allocation of gifts and treats"
However, I don't think he's correct here. Why? Because, as explained by many of the pick-up artists he's mentioned earlier, giving gifts to women has the opposite effect, makes you more unattractive. Men do better by sending out a signal of "you're not getting free stuff from me, honey - I'm not the type of needy guy who bribes women". Simping just makes the man with values stand out all the more clearly.
In contrast - giving out free sex is, for women, much less likely to be turned down - although in terms of getting a long-term mate, it's less beneficial. But simping has near ZERO success for a man.
Wrong. This is totally location dependent. It's mainly only in very sick psychotic societies like America and Canada where being "nice" and giving gifts, turns women off and is repulsive. It's due to their faulty programming and brainwashing. In a normal healthy society, being nice is appreciated and giving gifts isn't "simping". Men are naturally ingrained to protect AND provide, giving gifts is a signal of provision capability, and it makes the man feel good and it SHOULD make the girl feel good.
@@nightkingxx actually I do. If a man doesn't enjoy giving gifts and doing nice things for people (not just for women, but for everyone) then he is a bad person, a potential sociopath or psychopath. A normal healthy person (not just man but woman also) should feel good from doing good things for other people.
Who puts a plant on their printer? It's unnatural.
I was staring at that the whole time and it bothered me 😂
Great episode. I would take issue with the guests comment about height where he implies, 6'2 is more attractive than 5'2. That depends. Is many parts of Asia a 6'2 height would be viewed as a disability even ridiculed. I think the more accurate parameter just be a guy taller than the height of an average woman in any given area of the world.
This guy is low-key but a genius. I'm going to check out Mate and read it to my son(s). I learned from Doc Love about this stuff 18 years ago, but he's dead now, so it's great to find more people who really understand (and appreciate) what women want and share it in digestible ways.
Also, 100% agree that a smart woman is worth more than gold.
1:00:08 'if men give resources or commitment without sex it cheapens the value of resources and commitment' - how can it possibly be that way and how can it work out in reality in the courting realm? why do we need to bring up goods exchange tactics here? Sensible women who respect themselves would not participate in this 'stock exchange', we are talking about the relationship between human beings after all. It just does not sound right for me as a woman here either to be bombarded with gifts or to participate in trading my body for commitment or gifts. I would not like to think that the man who is willing to commit to a relationship with me is bargaining it for sex with me. Woman's commitment to a relationship is not giving away her body as a man's commitment is not giving away gifts. And how about those women who prefer not to have premarital sex? do they not deserve gifts or men who would be interested in marrying them?
What's with all the gift giving? And dinners? All that men are doing?
It's all a transaction...for sex
Men buy women things then complain about it