If you've found these videos useful you can now support my channel directly (i.e. not Patreon). You get access to spreadsheet template downloads, comment on articles and more. A small investment for your growing business - join here: smallbusinesstoolbox.uk/member/ 👍
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This video is certainly food for thought. I've been thinking about VAT registration recently. Being a sound engineer, I purchase a lot of kit, but am selling services. Having watched this video, it seems clear to me I've paid out a lot of money in VAT that I didn't need to.
I rarely give comments on TH-cam, but seriously your videos are so helpful. I want to start an online business, but I want to learn everything before I start. It's all giving me a headache looking through all the information, but still pushing through lol thanks again for these videos, you make it more simple you're awesome!!!
Hi Andy! I really appreciate your videos. They have helped me a lot. Me and my friend we have registered as self employed with confidence by watching your video "how to register as Self Employed" Now I will be very excited to know more about VAT rates and how to declare and claim VAT. Hope this video will come in the near future. Thanks very much again. Top Man💪
afaik, and I have checked, the invoice number does not need to be sequential. It has to be unique. If you are dealing with only a few companies, it is not impressive if the invoice numbers only increase by a few numbers each month. In the same way that registering for VAT before you meet the threshold, gives an impression of 'size', sequential invoice numbers have the reverse effect. Of course, it depends on your business and customers. There is a lot of stuff in VAT, a lot of it hearsay, and it is not all on the statute. I always found the hmrc inspectors quite helpful, provided I was honest, and they were not overly concerned. about any mistakes I made.
It's a crazy and vague thing. HMRC's official stance is "Unique invoice number that follows on from the last invoice" but they also state "sequential" in other docs. Here's a couple to check: www.gov.uk/vat-record-keeping/vat-invoices www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-trader-records/vatrec5020 Specifically: Q. In order to avoid the appearance of having only just started in business I do not want to start at Invoice no.1 and would prefer to commence with, say, Invoice no 1135. Is this allowed? A. Yes, as long as the invoice series runs consecutively from that point. ...which is stupid for the reasons you say. 👍
I don't want to belabour the point, but I guess I am, but what hmrc may suggest is not necessarily on the statute, and therefore is not law. Although I de-registered a few years ago, my invoice numbers were never a problem, and they sort of hopped about all over the place (but not many invoices per quarterly return). In reality, for the sort of business you are probably advising, then they may as well do it sequentially and avoid the possible discussion/confusion. It gets complicated if you are 'a corner shop', with different vat rates on different goods, cakes/biscuits, potato crisps/other crisps, hot or cold food, etc. (not that I was in that business, but a friend is a VAT consultant for that type of business) Although we act as unpaid tax collectors, if you are parcelforce/dhl/fedex/etc., they get paid (by the customer) to collect the vat/import duty from the customer.
Ah, see what you mean. You could well be correct. I certainly haven't heard of any cases where it's been enforced. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it's down to alignment with EU law (don't quote me on that) so perhaps that will change after Brexit. 👍
Imo a business which reckons that it'll have to register for VAT in the future shouldn't think of it as a price increase for the customer They should price their product services as if they're paying VAT from the get go - customers won't appreciate a sudden 20% rise.
another question - if you arent required to VAT register if you are below the threshold, then cant the seller simply raise overall prices by 20% to cover the VAT paid to govt without calling the 20% "vat" and separating it on the invoice statement?
Thank you so much for this video explained so clearly , i am just starting out and i need supplies from wholesalers, the ones i need will not let in with out VAT number any tips?
When you say you have to raise prices to be VAT registered, I can just keep the prices the same aslong as im still happy with the profit margin right? I am setting up to do an online print on demand store and they say I will be charged VAT if im not registered, which i assume means the price i see for the supplied products will actually cost me 20% more than is listed, and then if i am registered, I wont be able to claim back VAT on those items as they say they dont charge VAT for people who are registered. They are a european company for context. thanks for the video. This has been the hardest part of the learning process so far.
Raising prices, oh defo. It's not mandatory. But it means you'll be making 20% less. Yes, if you aren't VAT registered you can't claim VAT back on purchases. But equally you don't have to charge VAT if you're not VAT registered. 👍
Hello Andy, I am Going to start LTD company in UK But I'm a non-resident. I have question ( Am I going to need VAT for my online business? in which I have to export goods to The UK from Asia.)
Thanks Andy, I think if I were to go self employed then I would be a "Jane the journo" from your example- IE turnover won't be over 85k but my customers would all be commercial businesses so would want to be claiming VAT back on my services. Do I have this right?
Hi how is profit worked out when including vat? Is all vat claimed back? Say a product costs £1.50 excluding vat and I sell it for £6 what is the actual profit per product?
Profit is £4.50. (£6- £1.50) Regarding VAT all you are doing is collecting it. VAT on Sale =£1.20. VAT on purchase =£0.30. So in this case you pay over £0.90p in tax to HMRC. Hope that helps. (When you say you sell product for £6 I am assuming that is Sales Price excluding VAT.)
Ok so If I am a self employed joiner, not VAT registered, this makes me a consumer. I have material costs for a door of £100 + VAT. So I pass the £120 cost on to the customer. If I don’t also add a percentage for VAT onto the bill won’t the Taxman deduct VAT off my yearly earnings and won’t I lose money. Is that correct?
No, if you're not VAT registered then HMRC won't have any visibility of the VAT. Just assume it's £120. In that example if you sold it at cost your earnings would be £120, your costs would be £120 and your profit would be zero. 👍
Thank you very much for that video. I I'm a contractor in the building trade. Can you explain about that trade. Can I claim back VAT on all the materials I spend ?
In short, yes. If you're VAT registered and charge VAT to your customers then you can also claim VAT back through your regular VAT returns. Get any accountant involved if you've never done this before. 👍
Is this on top of traditional tax? In the US, at least the state I live in, we pay a flat 8% tax on most items. So if you buy from a non VAT seller do you pay any taxes?
Depends what you mean by traditional tax. You still have to pay income tax on your business profits but there's basically no sales tax at all if the business makes under £85,000 per year. 👍
What happens if I paid more VAT than what I collected? Instead of me paying HMRC will they send me a refund? If so, do I get a cheque from HMRC or they send me the difference via bank transfer?
I am more interested in philosophy of vat . What is the reason why vat exists ? Is this because governement makes it possible for consumer to buy goods that have value ? When consumers buy goods is this some kind of favour that goverment does to consumers so that consumers should do something in return by paying vat ?
Could you legitimately optimize VAT incomings and outgoings by having two separate business entities? One VAT registered and the other not registered with service & goods flows between one and the other. As an example, imagine a music band that has lots of musical equipment that performs to small non-VAT registered venues and turns over say £2000 month. The performance aspect of the enterprise would be non-VAT. It bills the venue for the performance without VAT. The equipment ownership part of the enterprise would be VAT registered. The performance entity would hire the equipment from the VAT registered company (and would, of course, pay VAT on the hire charges and not be able to claim it back).
@@SmallBusinessToolboxI am not sure it is necessarily fraud but I think the issues surround demonstrating that the equipment the VAT-company owns is not being used by the non-VAT-company, e.g., for rehearsal, without declared costs and that the costs are commensurate with industry norms. If a band plays only on the weekend, then it would seem legitimate to hire the equipment for the weekend. If the owner of a building company which is VAT registered uses company tools to do DIY at his home, then he should be able to do that as long as he hires his equipment and pays VAT. Anyway, it is an academic question and accountants would have to be consulted to see if it is possible but having said that, it is a good theoretic way of using the two VAT systems.
Vat = higher prices for consumers and less sales locally and more sales out of the country = less net profit for local business . This happen in Australia with high consumption tax since 1985 . Vat tax is not good for job growth
Hi, thanks for the video, Really well explained! My business currently turns around 100k a year so it’s VAT registered. What are your thoughts on the flat rate VAT scheme? I’m unsure on the whole idea and I believe it benefits businesses who don’t really claim a lot back? I just need a little bit more of an understanding. Thanks very much
I have concerns about this. If you are the end user aka (consumer) you actually pay the VAT for all the businesses before you. the only way to avoid paying VAT for all the businesses before you is that you register, so you can get that VAT back at the end of the year. But in order to register, you have to be a business of some kind to be able to charge the VAT and then claim that VAT back. but you have to have customers and not just claim to be a business just to be able to claim the VAT back. because by the looks of the example of this video, every company in the processes which does look like a pyramid scheme, pays VAT but then claims it back, and they keep doing this down the pipeline, under it gets to you the (consumer) which is stuck with the bill in the end, while all the previous VAT (so called) payers get their VAT back. Its like you going to dinner with a bunch of friends, and when the bill comes, all your friends become astronomers, and you get stuck paying all the bills. So please explain to me how does that benefit the average -9-5 hard working person compared to the conglomerate hedge-fund company ? The only people I see benefiting from this are corporations because in the end at each processes of paying the VAT, they get that VAT back, and the consumer is the one being screwed in all this..........
No, you only pay VAT to the business you made the purchase from. VAT isn't cumulative between everyone in the chain since each business claims the VAT back. But yes, VAT is specifically a consumer tax. It's not a tax on business. The business is just acting as an unpaid tax collector. 👍
Another good video but I dislike the phrase “claim the VAT back”... it’s over used and misleading. I much prefer the term “off-set”... because that’s exactly what you do.. offset VAT paid against VAT charged and run your vat calculation each 1/4.
Hi Sir, I basically don't understand VAT, as being anything that makes sense, and is truly justified. I think it's a plain rip off put on common folks. In simple terms, it's tax on Tax. I want to purchase a fridge with the money, that has already been taxed. Are you getting my drift? Please comment, and prove me wrong.
If you've found these videos useful you can now support my channel directly (i.e. not Patreon). You get access to spreadsheet template downloads, comment on articles and more. A small investment for your growing business - join here: smallbusinesstoolbox.uk/member/ 👍
99 injury 9 ikon in j9>9=>Jo 9 oii 9ii99j9i99i>9n>>ii Jo >Jo ii>oi 99 Jo n join i>juno 9 kook 9i9i>j 9 n 99 hi 99 j 99 on 9 Jo ii join ikk >join ik 9i>jinni 9 I 9 ok >a okk 9 join Jo I iii 9 I iii 99 I 99 j i I ik I iii on oi 99 iii 9j9999j9i99iiiiiij9ii9iijj>jiu-jitsu 8 ii Jo ikon iii jinni I joking =i999jii>I oooo 99 I 99 >99 9 on 9ji>9 jokin I oooo =i99iji9>I 99 on 9iij>ok oii 9 join j hi 9 I 9 Jo 9 hii I 99 9 9 >9ij>99 j I 99 Jo 9 hi 99 j I >I 99 injured ooo iii ii9>n I jiving I i ooo 99 ink ok I j>Kiki j I 9 9 9>9 in I 99 ik iii I iii i 9 99 on iii I ik >I j oi 99 I iii I oii j9k89i9j999i>the book I 9 oii =ik I ionospheric Jo >injured >ok Jo >I iii I on I iii Jo jojoba j oii >oi jojoba Kiki join 9 8 ii Jo iii >I iii 8 >iii ii 99 9 >I in 99 I ooo I u oi 9 8 >ooo 99 99 9 i 9 99 j I ik ik >ii9i9>
Thanks alot. Your video helps alot.
Please do the further VAT videos you mention at the end because this video is very helpful!
This video is certainly food for thought. I've been thinking about VAT registration recently. Being a sound engineer, I purchase a lot of kit, but am selling services. Having watched this video, it seems clear to me I've paid out a lot of money in VAT that I didn't need to.
Nicely explained, very listenable voice. Please keep this project rolling.
I rarely give comments on TH-cam, but seriously your videos are so helpful. I want to start an online business, but I want to learn everything before I start. It's all giving me a headache looking through all the information, but still pushing through lol thanks again for these videos, you make it more simple you're awesome!!!
No worries - glad to be of help. Best of luck! 👍
Best explanation EVER ! You're the best !
thank you very much that was very well explained do you have a video that shows you how do submit online please
Hi Andy! I really appreciate your videos. They have helped me a lot. Me and my friend we have registered as self employed with confidence by watching your video "how to register as Self Employed" Now I will be very excited to know more about VAT rates and how to declare and claim VAT. Hope this video will come in the near future. Thanks very much again. Top Man💪
Very clear explanation - helpful ... will keep watching more videos in your channel to learn more - well done
No worries! 👍
Nice video Andy. I wish SBT had been around a few years ago when I attempted to go self employed.
Literally amazing. I need this!!! Love this channel 👏👏👏
Thank you. Very clear explanation.
No worries! 👍
Thanks for this! I just set up a company in the UK and I was researching whether to register for VAT.
Wow, excellent video! More please.
I'm a masters law student and this was extremely helpful. :) late night subscriber :)
Great stuff - glad you found it useful! 👍😀
really easy and clear, thank you very much
Love it! Thank you, very clear and concise
No worries! 👍👊
afaik, and I have checked, the invoice number does not need to be sequential. It has to be unique. If you are dealing with only a few companies, it is not impressive if the invoice numbers only increase by a few numbers each month. In the same way that registering for VAT before you meet the threshold, gives an impression of 'size', sequential invoice numbers have the reverse effect. Of course, it depends on your business and customers. There is a lot of stuff in VAT, a lot of it hearsay, and it is not all on the statute. I always found the hmrc inspectors quite helpful, provided I was honest, and they were not overly concerned. about any mistakes I made.
It's a crazy and vague thing. HMRC's official stance is "Unique invoice number that follows on from the last invoice" but they also state "sequential" in other docs. Here's a couple to check:
www.gov.uk/vat-record-keeping/vat-invoices
www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-trader-records/vatrec5020
Specifically:
Q. In order to avoid the appearance of having only just started in business I do not want to start at Invoice no.1 and would prefer to commence with, say, Invoice no 1135. Is this allowed?
A. Yes, as long as the invoice series runs consecutively from that point.
...which is stupid for the reasons you say. 👍
I don't want to belabour the point, but I guess I am, but what hmrc may suggest is not necessarily on the statute, and therefore is not law. Although I de-registered a few years ago, my invoice numbers were never a problem, and they sort of hopped about all over the place (but not many invoices per quarterly return). In reality, for the sort of business you are probably advising, then they may as well do it sequentially and avoid the possible discussion/confusion. It gets complicated if you are 'a corner shop', with different vat rates on different goods, cakes/biscuits, potato crisps/other crisps, hot or cold food, etc. (not that I was in that business, but a friend is a VAT consultant for that type of business)
Although we act as unpaid tax collectors, if you are parcelforce/dhl/fedex/etc., they get paid (by the customer) to collect the vat/import duty from the customer.
Ah, see what you mean. You could well be correct. I certainly haven't heard of any cases where it's been enforced. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that it's down to alignment with EU law (don't quote me on that) so perhaps that will change after Brexit. 👍
That's what I call a nice explanation!
CAN YOU PLEASE GUIDE US ABOUT TAX POINT & ALL OF ITS CONDITIONS AND CATEGORIES
Thanks a lot Andy! Very clearly explained
i want the spreadsheet you used ( the Vat input /Output schedule ) Where do I get that?
Very understandable. Thanks👌
Imo a business which reckons that it'll have to register for VAT in the future shouldn't think of it as a price increase for the customer
They should price their product services as if they're paying VAT from the get go - customers won't appreciate a sudden 20% rise.
Yup - totally agree. Or if nothing else slowly ramp prices up as you get closer and closer to the threshold to lessen the impact. 👍
Hi Andy,
Do overseas sales (mostly to USA) count towards VAT registration threshold (£85,000)?
Yes they do - most exports are 'zero rated' so you would include them in VAT return
another question - if you arent required to VAT register if you are below the threshold, then cant the seller simply raise overall prices by 20% to cover the VAT paid to govt without calling the 20% "vat" and separating it on the invoice statement?
Thank you so much for this video explained so clearly , i am just starting out and i need supplies from wholesalers, the ones i need will not let in with out VAT number any tips?
Strange... I'd find a different supplier. They shouldn't be forcing you to be VAT registered - have a word with an accountant to check.👍
I am selling on etsy and I want to know do I need to charge VAT on international customers or only UK?
When you say you have to raise prices to be VAT registered, I can just keep the prices the same aslong as im still happy with the profit margin right?
I am setting up to do an online print on demand store and they say I will be charged VAT if im not registered, which i assume means the price i see for the supplied products will actually cost me 20% more than is listed, and then if i am registered, I wont be able to claim back VAT on those items as they say they dont charge VAT for people who are registered. They are a european company for context.
thanks for the video. This has been the hardest part of the learning process so far.
Raising prices, oh defo. It's not mandatory. But it means you'll be making 20% less. Yes, if you aren't VAT registered you can't claim VAT back on purchases. But equally you don't have to charge VAT if you're not VAT registered. 👍
What Is this new reverse charge scheme? Can you let us know details on this
Hello Andy, I am Going to start LTD company in UK But I'm a non-resident.
I have question ( Am I going to need VAT for my online business? in which I have to export goods to The UK from Asia.)
Thanks Andy, I think if I were to go self employed then I would be a "Jane the journo" from your example- IE turnover won't be over 85k but my customers would all be commercial businesses so would want to be claiming VAT back on my services. Do I have this right?
Yes you do
Would like to see a "how to" for using spread sheets for calculating VAT.
See latest vid! 👍👊
Hi how is profit worked out when including vat? Is all vat claimed back? Say a product costs £1.50 excluding vat and I sell it for £6 what is the actual profit per product?
Profit is £4.50. (£6- £1.50) Regarding VAT all you are doing is collecting it. VAT on Sale =£1.20. VAT on purchase =£0.30. So in this case you pay over £0.90p in tax to HMRC. Hope that helps. (When you say you sell product for £6 I am assuming that is Sales Price excluding VAT.)
such a useful video ! thanks 😊
No worries 👍
if i get a VAT refund do i need to report that as income?
Ok so If I am a self employed joiner, not VAT registered, this makes me a consumer. I have material costs for a door of £100 + VAT. So I pass the £120 cost on to the customer. If I don’t also add a percentage for VAT onto the bill won’t the Taxman deduct VAT off my yearly earnings and won’t I lose money. Is that correct?
No, if you're not VAT registered then HMRC won't have any visibility of the VAT. Just assume it's £120. In that example if you sold it at cost your earnings would be £120, your costs would be £120 and your profit would be zero. 👍
Thank you very much for that video. I I'm a contractor in the building trade. Can you explain about that trade. Can I claim back VAT on all the materials I spend ?
In short, yes. If you're VAT registered and charge VAT to your customers then you can also claim VAT back through your regular VAT returns. Get any accountant involved if you've never done this before. 👍
Could you link me to a similar record keeping excel sheet like the one you used?
If you're VAT registered I'd suggest some basic accounts software. 👍
Very useful. Thanks
Is this on top of traditional tax? In the US, at least the state I live in, we pay a flat 8% tax on most items. So if you buy from a non VAT seller do you pay any taxes?
Depends what you mean by traditional tax. You still have to pay income tax on your business profits but there's basically no sales tax at all if the business makes under £85,000 per year. 👍
What happens if I paid more VAT than what I collected? Instead of me paying HMRC will they send me a refund? If so, do I get a cheque from HMRC or they send me the difference via bank transfer?
Yes, they will. I think they would prefer to do it by bank transfer. I don't know if they'd do it by cheque.
I am more interested in philosophy of vat . What is the reason why vat exists ? Is this because governement makes it possible for consumer to buy goods that have value ? When consumers buy goods is this some kind of favour that goverment does to consumers so that consumers should do something in return by paying vat ?
if i buy something from the us do i need to pay VAT?
You shouldn't have to. VAT is a UK sales tax. The US have their own sales taxes.
Great video! Thankyou
Is it worth registering as a musician? As PPL asks for a VAT number
Entirely up to you... but don't be pressured in to it by anyone. 👍
Small Business Toolbox ok thanks bro
Could you legitimately optimize VAT incomings and outgoings by having two separate business entities? One VAT registered and the other not registered with service & goods flows between one and the other. As an example, imagine a music band that has lots of musical equipment that performs to small non-VAT registered venues and turns over say £2000 month. The performance aspect of the enterprise would be non-VAT. It bills the venue for the performance without VAT. The equipment ownership part of the enterprise would be VAT registered. The performance entity would hire the equipment from the VAT registered company (and would, of course, pay VAT on the hire charges and not be able to claim it back).
I'm pretty sure that's VAT fraud 😁... unless you operate a legitimate equipment hire company that hires out to other businesses / people. I think. 🤔
@@SmallBusinessToolboxI am not sure it is necessarily fraud but I think the issues surround demonstrating that the equipment the VAT-company owns is not being used by the non-VAT-company, e.g., for rehearsal, without declared costs and that the costs are commensurate with industry norms. If a band plays only on the weekend, then it would seem legitimate to hire the equipment for the weekend. If the owner of a building company which is VAT registered uses company tools to do DIY at his home, then he should be able to do that as long as he hires his equipment and pays VAT. Anyway, it is an academic question and accountants would have to be consulted to see if it is possible but having said that, it is a good theoretic way of using the two VAT systems.
Vat = higher prices for consumers and less sales locally and more sales out of the country = less net profit for local business . This happen in Australia with high consumption tax since 1985 . Vat tax is not good for job growth
Excellent!!!!!!!
Very useful thanks
No worries Melissa! 👍
I hate VAT having to charge 20% extra is killer for some businesses
brilliant - thank you
No worries Damian!
Thank you. Really helpful. ;]
Hi, thanks for the video, Really well explained! My business currently turns around 100k a year so it’s VAT registered. What are your thoughts on the flat rate VAT scheme? I’m unsure on the whole idea and I believe it benefits businesses who don’t really claim a lot back? I just need a little bit more of an understanding. Thanks very much
Is that Marty McFly's JVC on your wall?!
Ha, yes! 😁
I have concerns about this. If you are the end user aka (consumer) you actually pay the VAT for all the businesses before you.
the only way to avoid paying VAT for all the businesses before you is that you register, so you can get that VAT back at the end of the year.
But in order to register, you have to be a business of some kind to be able to charge the VAT and then claim that VAT back. but you have to have customers and not just claim to be a business
just to be able to claim the VAT back.
because by the looks of the example of this video, every company in the processes which does look like a pyramid scheme,
pays VAT but then claims it back, and they keep doing this down the pipeline, under it gets to you the (consumer) which is stuck with the bill in the end,
while all the previous VAT (so called) payers get their VAT back.
Its like you going to dinner with a bunch of friends, and when the bill comes, all your friends become astronomers, and you get stuck paying all the bills.
So please explain to me how does that benefit the average -9-5 hard working person compared to the conglomerate hedge-fund company ?
The only people I see benefiting from this are corporations because in the end at each processes of paying the VAT, they get that VAT back,
and the consumer is the one being screwed in all this..........
No, you only pay VAT to the business you made the purchase from. VAT isn't cumulative between everyone in the chain since each business claims the VAT back. But yes, VAT is specifically a consumer tax. It's not a tax on business. The business is just acting as an unpaid tax collector. 👍
Another good video but I dislike the phrase “claim the VAT back”... it’s over used and misleading.
I much prefer the term “off-set”... because that’s exactly what you do.. offset VAT paid against VAT charged and run your vat calculation each 1/4.
True... I suppose. 👍
Still don't understand why we need VAT in the first place? We'd be just fine without it I would imagine
Hi Sir, I basically don't understand VAT, as being anything that makes sense, and is truly justified. I think it's a plain rip off put on common folks. In simple terms, it's tax on Tax. I want to purchase a fridge with the money, that has already been taxed. Are you getting my drift?
Please comment, and prove me wrong.
The queen cost the taxpayer 67m 19-20
They bring in way more than £67m in tourism. Hate to tell you but £67m is loose change these days in the scheme of things. Not an issue. 👍
I figured I'd slow down on the treasonous comments but thanks for the reply 👌I'll send a sub your way 😉
Why is this so complicated? I have no idea of what you are talking about.