Thanks bud, Looked at your facebook profile, If you end up with a taipan pump let me know as I have a prototype vertical foregrip I need testers for and looks like you do a bit of shooting
I would highly recommend a Rager Mark IV Hunter as a first pistol. I bought one for my daughter's birthday. I promptly stole it from her to shoot SCSA Steel Challenge in RFPI. She got it back once I bought the Volquartzen. That Ruger is a joy to maintain, unlike my Scorpion, which is Mark III based and therefore not "pushbutton easy." The Hunter has a great balance and fantastic sights that even I can use at my advanced age, given the enormous sight radius.
Just FYI: S&W Model 41 and S&W Model 422/622 magazines are interchangeable. You give good advice. If you shoot a lot, you WILL need spare parts. My primary semi-auto .22 pistol is a High Standard Supermatic Citation. I keep full extra sets of springs, a packet of slide stop springs They are easily lost when stripping for cleaning) firing pin and an extra extractor and extractor plunger. Here in the USA the springs are still easily available from Wolff and Numrich Arms usually has the other parts in stock. Who knows how long that will last. Get them now.
I’ve never lost a spring or anything while cleaning my Hi Standard Supermatic Citation Military,s. However I don’t take them completely apart because they don’t need it. Gun scrubber/Break free power blast cleaner compressed air & CLP work wonders
The Trailside seems ok but unlike the International, 208, or 215 the rear sight moves with the sight. If you are using an optical sight it doesn't matter and maybe it doesn't matter at all but I would like to see the Walther make the new Trailside or Exesse or whatever they are calling it with the rear sight bridge like the 208. Just a thought.
You may want to look into a Second hand Colt Woodsman Match Target, Series 2 has the best mag drop. We have had one in our family since 1950. The same one. It was used competitively. Never a problem, parts are easily found. Highly accurate with awesome Target grips and a very nice trigger. My 41 Performance Center I got new/used second hand for $1000 with 4 magazines. It’s very fun to shoot and very accurate. I recently acquired two Hi Standard Supermatic Citation Military models. Both use the same mag so I got 5 that were available. Both have awesome grips, super light triggers like the Colt and 41. They shoot flawlessly and very accurately as well. The Mark 4 Hunter/Competition is best and so is my Buckmark Hunter. They both are very nice as well. The S&W Victory has many nice upgrades available to put it in the next level. However I have only gotten a few extra mags so far for mine. Great list!
For ISSF .22 competition, only the Hammerli would suffice for a beginner competitor . Others are only for casual shooting or some of these pseudo combat matches. Triggers not adjustable enough, too much recoil due to the design but, they won’t be fussy about ammunition because they mostly have sloppy chambers. Buy the time you buy one of these, modify them, practice, you would have been better off to buy a used quality pistol. I own several quality pistols, one that I bought in 1997, I have shot 10,000 rounds out of with few malfunctions only due to ammunition. Quality pistols are expensive but, not as expensive as quality shotguns and target rifles . Expect to pay $2500-3500 for a new one and approaching half for a 10 year old used model. I agree that you must obtain spares , learn to clean your pistol yourself and replace things as they wear out. In F1, they used to replace the engine and gearbox after each race and sometimes between practice and the race . Quality equipment requires maintenance but, the reward is top performance . Performance far above all of the pistols listed here. Look at the Olympics and world championships. See any Rugers there? I list the American guns in the review as casual shooters, the Beretta a 9 score gun, the Hammerli as a junior or lady pistol that can get 9-10s. The top pistols will only miss the 10 if the shooter does not do his / her part. The pistols listed here make it hard for the shooter to do his/ her part.
I'm in the USA and the normal pricing here was half what you pay there. But sadly that's pre-pandemic! I own the IPSC one and your right about the magazines being fragile and hard to get. But an interesting match 22 to have and enjoy, but then I'm a bit of a 22 pistol "junkie".
Nice video, thanks a lot for sharing this with us. I actually watched it about a year ago... it seems you've not (yet) posted a review on your Browning Buck Mark Contour. Do you still have in mind to publish that review? After almost 2 years of using club pistols for small caliber service matches (precision) I'm ambivalent on whether to buy the S&W 41 or the Buck Mark Contour. Eager to know your views out of such a rich experience you seem to have built up. Thanks in advance.
Yeah I really should post another video- work/ kids / life / health have been getting in the way. I would say it depends on your budget. I would have said buck mark but I now come across a few bad ones- seems like they do put out a very occasional lemon. Mine has been flawless but my mate just bought a contour second hand and it was a POS. Mod 41 is a winner they can just be slightly fussy on ammo. but if you have time to tune a spring or 2 to a specific ammo you will be happy.
I was surprised that in Australia you are allowed pistols the impression we get in Europe is Australia is anti-gun But thank you for posting I enjoy your honest review. Can you do a full review on the Hammerli?
I can do a review but it will have to be another picture montage as i no longer own the pistol. Its hard to own multiple pistols here as they ask for justifications when you have too many.
@@Brendan7838 Its single action only, Has adjustable trigger, straight out of the box you will find it has a crisp break, the safety is mounted on the slide like a mini Desert Eagle, there is no decocker and you will need a few plastic snap caps as you will want to drop the hammer before storing and as you know 22LR pistols don't like to be dry fired. Ill try to get a video together in the next few weeks for you with more details.
I see a pro shooter in the background. Got one in lockdown. Trigger not great but ok for practice. Im waiting on my full licence to come through so I found this helpful. Hard to decide on first pistol. Do you think the sw41 is worth the money or just go with mk4 or buckmark. Cheers Glen.
I would say it would depend on where you want to go with the sport. If you looking to end up in IPSC or action pistol then I would Go Mk4 or Buckmark, if you looking to get into slow bulls eye style one handed stuff then the SW41. you will find more holster support and mag pouches for the Mk4 22/45 + grips and kits to suit.
sw41 are picky on ammo, over powered wont extract, under powered wont eject, it's build for cci standard. buckmark shoot the cheapest crap like a champ, I have friend shooting 2000 round of remington thunderbolt and winchester bulk crap non stop 3 hour straight untill the land filled with lead and keyholing, but the gun just keep cycling.
I have cz 122 sport and like it when i extend magazines. Its not the best but solid first gun. When you learn how to shoot you can go better. I think they dont make them anymore.
Very good video thank you for doing such a good job. I will say I feel sorry that you guys have to pay so much for your guns over there. I bought several high-end Browning bookmarks for $600 or less anyway I'm glad you enjoy shooting in thank you for the video
The plastic mags for the Hammerli do not break! Its a very durable "plastic". I use one modified for the 215 for years in competitions (lots of rounds!). The quality of the xesse is nowhere near the old 208/215 but the mags are very good!
mate I'm speaking from personal experience , I broke one by dropping it off a bench onto the concrete and as I said it took 10 months to get a replacement. I did not say it will wear out. I love the Gun hence why its on this list, but I wish the magazine was steel
@@saminc1705 Ok, strange. I treadet mine bad on purpose. It is still good. 22lr steel mags can break too! One fall on to the maglips and they can be bent. 😉
@@saminc1705 "Pastic is bad" what will break sooner, a glock plastic frame or a aluminium frame? A good plastic is a good thing, a bad one is a bad thing.
@@MrRetobaer Ha .. Im not even Going to touch the Glock VS Steel VS Aluminium debate [side note very tempted by the stainless P320 X5]. But let me ask you a question this way: If you and I walked into a (fantasy) gun shop and for sale were Hammerli Xesse Magazines, And they had both Plastic/Polymer or Steel for the same price Which would you buy?> I would buy the Steel ones If the polymer where Half the price Or Even 3/5ths the price I would by the polymer.
@@saminc1705 If the polymer mag cost the same like the steel, the producer would cheat. It is a lot cheaper for him to produce a polymer one. The Swiss Hammerli 280 and SP20 have also polymer mags. They are not even available anymore. I did never see a broken one at Swiss shooting ranges... And most of the shooters use Hammerlis for lots of shooting competitions. 😉 One misfire is ok, after the second you d be out. I saw broken, low quality steel mags (Promag?). So it depens on how you produce it. There are hightech polymers and shity polymers, good quality steel and bad quality steel.
I do mention these ( even show pictures of some of the ones you mention). But I would not point a new inexperienced shooter to these as the admission price is too high in Australia. Even a second hand Walther SSP is $2500+( gun im thinking to buy next) and $3700 New. Plus many of the high end target pistols are 5 round mags so you cant take them in a many other matches outside of ISSF. I would always say its better to get into a nice new 22LR for $1200 and buy $800 in ammo. But put a video together of what you think is best and ill add a link in my description. Im here to grow the sport any way I can.
@saminc1705 a Hi Standard Supermatic is extremely well valued. And nowhere as a rule close to the prices you mention. And mine shoot better than the Model 41. At least here I can find them sub 1000 USD. I have a recent S-101 purchase I got for 500 USD. That came with 2 magazines. But only one of the barrel weights sadly. Found the second weight on Ebay for 55 dollars. A Feinwerkbau AW93 is currently sub 700 USD on Gunbroker. That is not just a great first .22lr. It is a keep it forever and pass it down .22lr. I am considering it. As I have only fired one, but never owned one. And a Pardini, Walther, etcetera Free Pistol hit the forums in the mid hundreds relatively regularly. At least here. Which is seriously about competitive shooting. These are perhaps the best not only value but starting place. I purchased the 2 PGP 75's I own for less than a 1200 USD. That included shipping and transfer fees. So I cannot see 1200 on a Model 41 over a Feinwerkbau or Pardini. And I own a model 41. Great gun. But not really a match weapon. I have owned a Mark 1, 2, and 4. Still own the 4. Nice weapon. Great plinker, also not a real match or competitive weapon. Again I get it is different. We do not have the same restrictions as you do. But most watching this content likely are not as restricted as you are. It is why I mentioned names not covered in your list.
the prices you mention make me jealous, Even the idea of buying gun parts off eBay is a near impossibility here. We have nothing like the second hand market you do ( guessing your from USA) our biggest second hand gun site gets about 10-20 posts a day nation wide and only about 20% of them are pistols. The High standard is a very uncommon pistol here. I Only know about 4 people to ever own one and parts for them are near impossible to source quickly here. The USD prices you see on gunbroker - I WISH - You can double that Price once it gets over to OZ. I would be broke buying all my dream guns All the best thanks for reaching out- I still think you should make up a video to share your knowledge and experience you could help someone picking the right gun. Just curious what does a dealer charge as a transfer fee over there? Keep in touch .
@saminc1705 one local place does transfers for 25 dollars. Most charge 35 dollars. 35 seems to be the industry standard charge at this point. That does not include shipping. Shipping depending on the same as i am guessing there, distance and weight. Most sites charge 30 bucks and up for shipping. Overnight being higher of course. And most states here, there is no transfers on private sales. Most states do not require paperwork between individuals. I am from the US. For the moment we still embrace the 2nd Amendment. Though the government more and more wishes to restrict us.
Awesome video mate. Clear, concise, full of info and Australian. Gets old watching American reviews.
Top job.
Thanks bud, Looked at your facebook profile, If you end up with a taipan pump let me know as I have a prototype vertical foregrip I need testers for and looks like you do a bit of shooting
The Rugers and Buckmarks are probably the best bang for the buck!
I would highly recommend a Rager Mark IV Hunter as a first pistol. I bought one for my daughter's birthday. I promptly stole it from her to shoot SCSA Steel Challenge in RFPI. She got it back once I bought the Volquartzen. That Ruger is a joy to maintain, unlike my Scorpion, which is Mark III based and therefore not "pushbutton easy." The Hunter has a great balance and fantastic sights that even I can use at my advanced age, given the enormous sight radius.
87T representing! Such an underrated target pistol, has won me a more than a few competitions. Love it
As someone just about to leave their 6 month PPL period this vid' was extremely helpful! Thanks mate!
Just FYI: S&W Model 41 and S&W Model 422/622 magazines are interchangeable.
You give good advice. If you shoot a lot, you WILL need spare parts. My primary semi-auto .22 pistol is a High Standard Supermatic Citation. I keep full extra sets of springs, a packet of slide stop springs They are easily lost when stripping for cleaning) firing pin and an extra extractor and extractor plunger.
Here in the USA the springs are still easily available from Wolff and Numrich Arms usually has the other parts in stock. Who knows how long that will last. Get them now.
I’ve never lost a spring or anything while cleaning my Hi Standard Supermatic Citation Military,s. However I don’t take them completely apart because they don’t need it. Gun scrubber/Break free power blast cleaner compressed air & CLP work wonders
The Trailside seems ok but unlike the International, 208, or 215 the rear sight moves with the sight. If you are using an optical sight it doesn't matter and maybe it doesn't matter at all but I would like to see the Walther make the new Trailside or Exesse or whatever they are calling it with the rear sight bridge like the 208. Just a thought.
The Hammerli pic brought me to the video. Neat looking gun. Good video!
You may want to look into a Second hand Colt Woodsman Match Target, Series 2 has the best mag drop. We have had one in our family since 1950. The same one. It was used competitively. Never a problem, parts are easily found. Highly accurate with awesome Target grips and a very nice trigger. My 41 Performance Center I got new/used second hand for $1000 with 4 magazines. It’s very fun to shoot and very accurate. I recently acquired two Hi Standard Supermatic Citation Military models. Both use the same mag so I got 5 that were available. Both have awesome grips, super light triggers like the Colt and 41. They shoot flawlessly and very accurately as well. The Mark 4 Hunter/Competition is best and so is my Buckmark Hunter. They both are very nice as well. The S&W Victory has many nice upgrades available to put it in the next level. However I have only gotten a few extra mags so far for mine. Great list!
Good overview and recommendations, thanks for your efforts!
For ISSF .22 competition, only the Hammerli would suffice for a beginner competitor . Others are only for casual shooting or some of these pseudo combat matches. Triggers not adjustable enough, too much recoil due to the design but, they won’t be fussy about ammunition because they mostly have sloppy chambers. Buy the time you buy one of these, modify them, practice, you would have been better off to buy a used quality pistol.
I own several quality pistols, one that I bought in 1997, I have shot 10,000 rounds out of with few malfunctions only due to ammunition.
Quality pistols are expensive but, not as expensive as quality shotguns and target rifles .
Expect to pay $2500-3500 for a new one and approaching half for a 10 year old used model. I agree that you must obtain spares , learn to clean your pistol yourself and replace things as they wear out.
In F1, they used to replace the engine and gearbox after each race and sometimes between practice and the race . Quality equipment requires maintenance but, the reward is top performance . Performance far above all of the pistols listed here. Look at the Olympics and world championships. See any Rugers there? I list the American guns in the review as casual shooters, the Beretta a 9 score gun, the Hammerli as a junior or lady pistol that can get 9-10s. The top pistols will only miss the 10 if the shooter does not do his / her part.
The pistols listed here make it hard for the shooter to do his/ her part.
I'm in the USA and the normal pricing here was half what you pay there. But sadly that's pre-pandemic! I own the IPSC one and your right about the magazines being fragile and hard to get. But an interesting match 22 to have and enjoy, but then I'm a bit of a 22 pistol "junkie".
My gun club has multiple model 41’s I can use. I’m not sure if I should get my own gun or not.
Nice video, thanks a lot for sharing this with us. I actually watched it about a year ago... it seems you've not (yet) posted a review on your Browning Buck Mark Contour. Do you still have in mind to publish that review?
After almost 2 years of using club pistols for small caliber service matches (precision) I'm ambivalent on whether to buy the S&W 41 or the Buck Mark Contour. Eager to know your views out of such a rich experience you seem to have built up. Thanks in advance.
Yeah I really should post another video- work/ kids / life / health have been getting in the way. I would say it depends on your budget. I would have said buck mark but I now come across a few bad ones- seems like they do put out a very occasional lemon. Mine has been flawless but my mate just bought a contour second hand and it was a POS. Mod 41 is a winner they can just be slightly fussy on ammo. but if you have time to tune a spring or 2 to a specific ammo you will be happy.
@@saminc1705 Thanks a lot for the advice. I wish you a peaceful week (work + home) and good health.
my first was buckmark, upgrade to sw 41 and hammerli sp20. never liked ruger for whatever reason
Bit early for me but still interesting vid! I’m 16 and hoping to join a club in February!
I was surprised that in Australia you are allowed pistols the impression we get in Europe is Australia is anti-gun
But thank you for posting I enjoy your honest review.
Can you do a full review on the Hammerli?
I can do a review but it will have to be another picture montage as i no longer own the pistol. Its hard to own multiple pistols here as they ask for justifications when you have too many.
Sam Inc great I am interested in getting one .I was wondering about safety features.
Single action or double ?
Is there a decocker?
@@Brendan7838 Its single action only, Has adjustable trigger, straight out of the box you will find it has a crisp break, the safety is mounted on the slide like a mini Desert Eagle,
there is no decocker and you will need a few plastic snap caps as you will want to drop the hammer before storing and as you know 22LR pistols don't like to be dry fired. Ill try to get a video together in the next few weeks for you with more details.
Sam Inc thank you I am looking at one at the moment hoping to do a deal looks promising a lot of accessories
I see a pro shooter in the background. Got one in lockdown. Trigger not great but ok for practice. Im waiting on my full licence to come through so I found this helpful. Hard to decide on first pistol. Do you think the sw41 is worth the money or just go with mk4 or buckmark. Cheers Glen.
I would say it would depend on where you want to go with the sport. If you looking to end up in IPSC or action pistol then I would Go Mk4 or Buckmark, if you looking to get into slow bulls eye style one handed stuff then the SW41. you will find more holster support and mag pouches for the Mk4 22/45 + grips and kits to suit.
sw41 are picky on ammo, over powered wont extract, under powered wont eject, it's build for cci standard. buckmark shoot the cheapest crap like a champ, I have friend shooting 2000 round of remington thunderbolt and winchester bulk crap non stop 3 hour straight untill the land filled with lead and keyholing, but the gun just keep cycling.
I have cz 122 sport and like it when i extend magazines. Its not the best but solid first gun. When you learn how to shoot you can go better. I think they dont make them anymore.
they are a cool looking gun, Have not seen any around. Wish CZ Made more 22LR dedicated pistols not just conversation kits.
Great share, thanks. Do you need an optic for the versatile pistols you talked about, or do people go with iron sights?
it all depends on which Class of pistol and what competition your doing, if your doing ISSF or free pistol you must have Iron sights.
@@saminc1705 Thanks, appreciated - I will ask around at my club about what is suggested...
Good variety
Anyone else had 22LR in the recommendations lately ?
Very good video thank you for doing such a good job. I will say I feel sorry that you guys have to pay so much for your guns over there. I bought several high-end Browning bookmarks for $600 or less anyway I'm glad you enjoy shooting in thank you for the video
The plastic mags for the Hammerli do not break! Its a very durable "plastic". I use one modified for the 215 for years in competitions (lots of rounds!). The quality of the xesse is nowhere near the old 208/215 but the mags are very good!
mate I'm speaking from personal experience , I broke one by dropping it off a bench onto the concrete and as I said it took 10 months to get a replacement. I did not say it will wear out. I love the Gun hence why its on this list, but I wish the magazine was steel
@@saminc1705 Ok, strange. I treadet mine bad on purpose. It is still good. 22lr steel mags can break too! One fall on to the maglips and they can be bent. 😉
@@saminc1705 "Pastic is bad" what will break sooner, a glock plastic frame or a aluminium frame? A good plastic is a good thing, a bad one is a bad thing.
@@MrRetobaer Ha .. Im not even Going to touch the Glock VS Steel VS Aluminium debate [side note very tempted by the stainless P320 X5]. But let me ask you a question this way: If you and I walked into a (fantasy) gun shop and for sale were Hammerli Xesse Magazines, And they had both Plastic/Polymer or Steel for the same price Which would you buy?> I would buy the Steel ones If the polymer where Half the price Or Even 3/5ths the price I would by the polymer.
@@saminc1705 If the polymer mag cost the same like the steel, the producer would cheat. It is a lot cheaper for him to produce a polymer one.
The Swiss Hammerli 280 and SP20 have also polymer mags. They are not even available anymore. I did never see a broken one at Swiss shooting ranges... And most of the shooters use Hammerlis for lots of shooting competitions. 😉 One misfire is ok, after the second you d be out.
I saw broken, low quality steel mags (Promag?). So it depens on how you produce it. There are hightech polymers and shity polymers, good quality steel and bad quality steel.
I just snagged a buck mark contour stainless 7 1/4 for 310$. 2nd magazine was 35$ lol. I feel bad for Aussie prices.
And they just keep going up! covid has made everything more expensive
Pretty good Vid.
thanks bud, appreciate it .
I just bought a S+W Victory
let me know how it goes , have not seen any around yet
❤
Seems to be expensive living in Austrailia!
Hi-Standard? Pardini? Feinbauwerk? Walther? I can list more. Your list seems spend and have to spend more later. Buy once cry once.
I do mention these ( even show pictures of some of the ones you mention). But I would not point a new inexperienced shooter to these as the admission price is too high in Australia. Even a second hand Walther SSP is $2500+( gun im thinking to buy next) and $3700 New. Plus many of the high end target pistols are 5 round mags so you cant take them in a many other matches outside of ISSF. I would always say its better to get into a nice new 22LR for $1200 and buy $800 in ammo. But put a video together of what you think is best and ill add a link in my description. Im here to grow the sport any way I can.
@saminc1705 a Hi Standard Supermatic is extremely well valued. And nowhere as a rule close to the prices you mention. And mine shoot better than the Model 41. At least here I can find them sub 1000 USD. I have a recent S-101 purchase I got for 500 USD. That came with 2 magazines. But only one of the barrel weights sadly. Found the second weight on Ebay for 55 dollars.
A Feinwerkbau AW93 is currently sub 700 USD on Gunbroker. That is not just a great first .22lr. It is a keep it forever and pass it down .22lr. I am considering it. As I have only fired one, but never owned one.
And a Pardini, Walther, etcetera Free Pistol hit the forums in the mid hundreds relatively regularly. At least here. Which is seriously about competitive shooting. These are perhaps the best not only value but starting place. I purchased the 2 PGP 75's I own for less than a 1200 USD. That included shipping and transfer fees.
So I cannot see 1200 on a Model 41 over a Feinwerkbau or Pardini. And I own a model 41. Great gun. But not really a match weapon. I have owned a Mark 1, 2, and 4. Still own the 4. Nice weapon. Great plinker, also not a real match or competitive weapon.
Again I get it is different. We do not have the same restrictions as you do. But most watching this content likely are not as restricted as you are. It is why I mentioned names not covered in your list.
the prices you mention make me jealous, Even the idea of buying gun parts off eBay is a near impossibility here.
We have nothing like the second hand market you do ( guessing your from USA) our biggest second hand gun site gets about 10-20 posts a day nation wide and only about 20% of them are pistols.
The High standard is a very uncommon pistol here. I Only know about 4 people to ever own one and parts for them are near impossible to source quickly here.
The USD prices you see on gunbroker - I WISH - You can double that Price once it gets over to OZ. I would be broke buying all my dream guns
All the best thanks for reaching out- I still think you should make up a video to share your knowledge and experience you could help someone picking the right gun.
Just curious what does a dealer charge as a transfer fee over there? Keep in touch .
@saminc1705 one local place does transfers for 25 dollars. Most charge 35 dollars. 35 seems to be the industry standard charge at this point. That does not include shipping. Shipping depending on the same as i am guessing there, distance and weight. Most sites charge 30 bucks and up for shipping. Overnight being higher of course. And most states here, there is no transfers on private sales. Most states do not require paperwork between individuals.
I am from the US. For the moment we still embrace the 2nd Amendment. Though the government more and more wishes to restrict us.
👍
US prices are far less than his numbers.
I dont like it at all..