I was paid to try and break Shapez 2...
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ย. 2024
- Can Shapez 2 withstand the power of engineering? Only one way to find, check it out for yourself here: bit.ly/rce-s2
Thanks to the devs for sponsoring this video!
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#realcivilengineer #engineering #shapez2
RE: 10:15
That doesn't improve efficiency because it only routes in the direction if it's clear, meaning it'll start getting more but that'll cause it to back up so it'll stop getting them until it catches up causing it to self balance.
The original Shapez did the same thing.
It's called a manifold btw
It can only more efficient in that it improves the startup. Without the balancing there can be some time spent "filling up" tracks during which the later machines aren't working.
But yeah, once it's up and running, same efficiency. And the startup is pretty insignificant in this game.
69 likes! NICE
I would've started ranting about this too, thank goodness that RCE saw this
The info for the buildings tell you how many you need to process a full belt. For example, you need 6 stackers to stack two full belts into one full belt.
21:00 Well. You found the crazy floating point rounding error zone, or as the Minecraft community calls it, the Farlands. Congrats. 😂
Minecraft its overflow.
Yeah this looked like floating point numbers simply being inaccurate at distances, particularly as it scaled with the distance.
Or the Null Zone from Roblox.
Ah yes, nothing more relaxing after a hard day's work of designing factory automation than playing a game about factory automation.
Yay first comment
18:54 - that not weird shape thats the strongest one!
This guy's clearly an engineer!
I noticed as well
haha! Was wondering if this was going to make it in, wouldn't be an RCE vid w/o it showing up someplace lol.
Tried to pull a sneaky
21:44 that's called floating point error, the father you go, the bigger the error gets.
usually games keep the camera and the map positioned at 0,0,0 so that doesn't happen.
@monad_tcp might be integer overflow, but I agree floating point is more likely
@@Vectorspace000no it’s floating point error
In fact I’m pretty sure in c# (the games made in unity) integers don’t overflow
@@anonymousperson.5528 C# doesn't check for overflow by default. You can change your project settings to enable it. Or you can explicitly have it check with the "checked(var)" function.
So an integer overflow could (probably) be possible. I'm not saying it's the case here.
An integer overflow is something completely different than floating point error. Makes me think you guys shout words out into the void, hoping to sound smart to someone...
If the issue was an integer overflow, then the map wouldn't be infinite but instead, well, overflow and loop back on itself. Would also be kinda cool though. But that flicker and graphics error is 100% floating point precision error!
12 minutes in and Matt still hasn’t noticed the icon when placing literally anything that clearly says how many are required per full belt. What an architect.
To be fair, I almost beat the entire game before noticing...
Just... How!? @@goldenhate6649
The *what* icon?
@@ResidentEvilFan1123 click on a building, look top right
Matt not reading the instructions? Unheard of!
You left that miner built in the Far Lands. It will forever be taking a little bit of processing power.
Josh for "Let's Game it out" already broke it, you don't have to, RCE.
The bug near 20:00 is a floating point bug. if you go far enough in shapez 2, it will start to glitch out due to the game using 32 bits to store the number. 1 for if its positive or negative. 7 for the exponent and 24 for the number.
the precision worsens by 2 times every power of 2 you go far away.
this is in every game that uses floats. Roblox, Minecraft,you name it.
some games do use 64 bits so it is much more precise. Minecraft still has its far lands but instead of being about 12 million blocks away, it is about 53 trillion blocks away.
What's you name it
😂 yea hes late
Let's game it out went crazy outside to find the shape
we call that a feature
It's a null zone btw
"half squares" ... Matt, that's a rectangle!
We're both right 😅
Give him a break. He's only an engineer, after all. Do you expect him to know things as if he's an architect?
All half a square are rectangles, yes, but so are all squares and not all rectangles are half a square.
@@lulerogaming1694 What if you draw a line from opposite vertices of the square through the centre? Then you have a half square, but it is a triangle!
@@accountnamewithheld a double triangle
The UI actually will tell you how much you need of each for a full belt, just have a look in to the top right :D
Yes! This was really bothering me. He needs 6 stackers. Not 4 😅
@@Ototox Yeah, have played the game by my self and discovered it quite early while striving for efficiency
Leave it to Matt to be utterly fascinated by how the machines move their little arms about. (As an animator, I agree, it is pretty neat to see.)
That's a task for The Spiffing Brit usually, exited to see how's going to pull that out.
Paddy was a big help! 😅
Naw, that's Josh's domain from Let's Game It Out.
@@RealCivilEngineerGaming We all know Paddy is the greatest engineer 👷🏼
Even he had problems with that
The building descriptions actually show you the number of buildings it would take to process a full belt, would be useful if you're trying to do max efficiency! Or just burn the game to the ground like LetsGameItOut lol
Or just do all of your upgrades in parallel, then you just have to remember rotator - 2, half destroyer - 3, extractor / cutter / swapper / bent stacker - 4, regular stacker - 6.
@@urkerab I found it better to upgrade the belts first/more than the rest. The belts are the ultimate limit on how many resources you can mine/move. Space wasn't a huge concern for a while at least, so needing fewer machines isn't as important as getting more resources in/out.
... didn't realize the game had a "number per belt" thing though. I was just dividing the "#/m" of the belt by the "#/m" of the machine. 180/m divided by 45/m is easy: 4.
0:34 Less than a minute in and he is already making a factual error. This is going great.
Yeah white comes way later as this is technically gray
@@CrazedKen technically it's "uncolored"
Woah man, seeing how much this channel has grown since AND how much of an improvement shapez 2 is at the same time?! Props to both, I loved seeing this channel grow
20:00 this is when the numbers have lost so much accuracy that everything messes up
The most fun I'm having isn't trying to make the shapes, but trying to make my own blueprints.
Yeah those are floating point errors... they are the enemy in any game with vast distances.
Also the underlying logic is probably fine, but the rendering of the mesh instances gets real flaky if it can't put the vertices where they belong.
There are ways around it, but it needs to be build for that from the get go or it will be a GIANT PITA to patch that functionality in.
At those distances physic engines are real fun, they constantly find new ways to surprise you.
Yeah, I seem to recall they were a major problem with Kerbal Space Program development - with the simulation trying to use realistic astronomical distances, the limits of floating point numbers was was easily reached and would affect things like the physics of all of the pieces attached to the rockets. It took them a lot of work to fix all of the associated bugs, and I think they had to transition to larger (64 bit?) floating point numbers as well.
This is also why many space games do things like divide space into sectors or solar systems that need a loading screen. No Man's Sky, for example, keeps planets in a solar system relatively close together, and to hop from one solar system to another you need to go through a loading screen, which allows them to always have the planets relatively close to to origin.
@@logicalfundyfor Elite Dangerous they wrote their own library to use 2 single 32 bit floats to emulate a 64 bit float.
From a science point of view Elite Dangerous is a super interesting game. Their StellarForge which generated the universe is sometimes even right or very close to being right when we discover new planets IRL!
wonder why they don't just have the logic for each grid be its own thing. Like, they have a grid system, why not use it!
@@colecube8251 because Unity...
Floating point errors with vast map sizes are 90% of the time technical debt of the established game engines since it wasn't a thing when they were conceptualized.
A lot of newer engines are capable to abstract that away without you noticing but all long-standing engines have options/tools you actively need to opt in.
And if you forget that you'll have a lot of work to remedy that.
The solution is quite simple and requires chunking / partitioning your world to keep floating point errors negligible but every thing else needs to be able to handle that.
@@DerSolinski So, let's say each grid space has 200x200 squares. Would it not be possible to have each grid have data for what's inside of it. Then you could just use a 2d array to load in the grid, and use a 2d array to load in the squares of the grid... right? This wouldn't have any rounding errors since there is no need to use floating point numbers.
And as for rendering, just have the camera stay at 0,0,0 and have the world move around it inversely.
Is there a reason this wouldn't work? I've never used unity and am a very inexperienced programmer. If I had to guess this *is* possible but perhaps this issue was realized to late into development to be fixed easily?
Matt: I’m gonna go play with my dog!
Shapez: K-kill… me…
Story Time with Justin: I bought Shapes immediately after watching your video on it back in the day. Boosh!
13:42 this is the shapez equivalent of off-camera mining 😭
Now that's what I call lasting support and loyalty. Congratulations on the 4 year anniversary!
I never went scrolling that far on the map, but I did bring the game to its knees. With almost 1.4 million buildings the game gets to almost unplayable state xD
But got 2 almost fully automatic MAMs running for the random deliveries.
Oh wow fair play that's impressive haha
Whats a MAM
@@ItsaKorok Make Anything Machine - automated factory that takes apart the shape requested by vortex (or manual input) and puts together a shape out of it. Mine didn't account for pins and I have to turn those on and off, hence it's not fully automatic one, but close enough.
@@DennouNeko Protip: Just consider pins to be a separate shape. So your MAM brings in complete circles, rectangles, stars, diamonds, and pins. Then just cut and arrange them like any other shape. You'll need to make a small separate factory to make a shape with just four pins.
@@TitoRigatoni Uhm... You can't really make a 1-layer shape with just pins in Shapez 2 since there's no unstacker (at least at the moment).
And I know the logic needed to detect a pin layer and add it under a higher layer. Even with pins that slide down to bottom layers on stacking if a piece below is missing. But with how slow the game got at this point I simply couldn't be bothered with modifying the modules...
1:16 baldness reveal?? 😱
Does anybody else ever rewind repeatedly at the beginning of the videos so you can hear Matt say "He- He- He- He- Hello fellow Engineers!" or is it just me?
I saw what you did at 18:54 I literally had to rewind and then laughed out loud.
Plz make a serie abt this 🙏
yez
Yes!
YES!
19:39 is best shape.
18:52 "loads of weird shapes" - indeed there are some interesting shapes out there. Some are stronger than others by the looks of it 👀
So glad to see this and always appreciate the weird shapes or 'anomalies' in the games that aren't put there deliberately. I recently found out about MAM and don't know if you'll attempt that at some point (interested), but just here for some engineering shenanigans.
Matt found the outer-lands
A double to grid issue, prevalent as soon as chunk 500 but doubles in intensity every time the chunk number doubles. (2^n where n is the distance from the central chunk in the longest dimension)
18:54 you cheeky engineer you!
You know, that bug about going out that far makes me think it's something similar to minecraft's farlands, that's also an infinite game and 3D and alignment messes up, and visuals start going crazy, i think it's about the same, who would have tought.
Story time: I started watching RCE because I liked shapez 1 and it was hard to find content about it :)
You've reached the farlands of shapez.
PS: You can place items on different layers on the space belt. You can also place the shape manipulating buildings on different layers.
RE: 18:53
"Weird Shapez"
8:54 you thought we wouldn't notice...
Gosh I love floating point numbers (the reason why the game freaked out) same reason why the farlands in Minecraft are a thing
More please! Those advanced levels look cool
Shapez 2 is just shapez zoomed in
The reason all the shapes at the edge of the universe are wonky is because of a little thing called "floating point imprecision". (I'm simplifying a bit here but) basically what's happening is that the computer only has so many digits it can use to represent a decimal number, so the more numbers you have *before* the decimal point, the fewer you can have *after* it.
What that means practically is that the numbers stop being able to be precise enough to draw correctly after a point, and so the further out you get from the center, the harder a time the system has zooming in. Moving the camera starts changing how the decimals are being rounded and makes the details on objects start to be drawn differently depending on very small changes to the camera's position.
RCE: strives for efficiency.
Also RCE: rotates an object 3 times instead of once in the opposite direction.
PS omg Paddy's gotten so big! Look at those eyes! What a sweetheart.
i really wanted Matt to check how many levels of shapeception can be stacked
a game that's not for me but quite fun to watch on fast forward this way, please keep going 🙂
I really want to see a series of this where he goes through everything
Now... honestly... if there was anyone I'd think they'd pay money to break a game, I'd assume it'd be Josh at Let's Game it Out.
19:36 playing with paddy montage 19:49 end of montage
Was awesome seeing you stream the other night on this game. Love to see more streams, I get having a kid makes things more complicated.
Paddy has grown up. Gawd damn. Such a gorgeous dog
I wonder is there some kind of storage for recyle option? E.g. like for the last one at 7:00. We had that half square and a quarter slice of the circle before. Just individually. If there is such an option we wouldn't need to occupy a compression molding with producing more just the conveyors to merge the pieces together and send them out for delivery
Paddy reminds me of my black lab. He unfortunately died at 9 due to a seizure likely caused by inbreeding. May he rest in peace and may paddy receive a treat in his honour.
18:53 weird shapes huh , interesting
My brain always breaks when I watch Let’s Game it Out play a game before finding another TH-camr play it (mostly) normally 😂
Their 3d coordinate system uses floating points and doesn't like things far from the origin.
Could solve it with more sub grids
13800s Dang. Did not expect that far out.
You should try out the hex setting. I've been trying to develop some generalized platforms for the setting and its breaking my brain with how much space is needed.
Let’s game it out did the exact same thing
20:45 what do you know. Shapez 2 has Farlands
I think every new dev has a what-shenanigans-RCE-would-do checklist and they make sure they eliminate as many points as possible before releasing the game.
Josh "Let's game it out" skiped the system task and find the same posible shape and do some incredible extractors . He did build a spaghetti factoies.
Has anyone played the "Basically" game? Basically, you drink a shot of Tequila everytime Matt says "basically".
I was on the fence about this until I saw the logic gates.
Stacking a double stack vs stacking 3 times is the same efficiency. Either way, it's 3 stacking operations.
If you stack double stacks then you can do it with less machines, but that will give slower results.
15:29 Space miner ---> Shape miner
When he was talking about how many shapes there are, I SAW THE STROngEsT SHAPE 18:47
You just have to wait a bit
Sha pez 2 sounds like a Doggo race
That’s some Minecraft Farlands kinda glitching right there.
Space belts have 3 levels too silly Matt
Just noticed that the latest patch added letting you see what shape trains are hauling when zoomed out, but I see in this video, you can also see what's on the large space belts when zooming out. How do you set that?
I learnt of shapez1 when I watched your video 3 years ago, it is a good game for the upcoming engineer. I am studying electrical engineering
When you go really far in most game engines, the engine still needs to know where you are.
So, it uses a floating point number- like scientific notation. But, that means it has limited accuracy at long distances, because there arent enough bits to store the number in it's entirety.
That's why so many games have shakey models a long way from the centre of the world - the model is so far that the computer can't accurately place each corner because their position data is so innacurate
Would love to see more
space belts can support 3 height levels as inputs.. turns into 12 items on the belt in a line.
Bought shapez 2 and played in beta can't wait to see part 2
14:55 During the live stream, it didnt seem that way 😂. But maybe we were distracting you.
Just confirming that seed 69420 is indeed the same for myself...The superior seed. It'll be nice when he gets to 0.08 update as there is nice QoL improvements.
would love to see more !
"Shapes don't like to do shape things when they've been unshaped for a long time"
- Sarah-n-Tuned
Matt you can't hide from Factorio forever
we got the farlands in shapez 2 before gta VI 🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥
tip: hold down shift for faster moving down the grid
I really thought this was going to be a 'Let's game it out' style vid honestly
R.I.P float precision
Yes, more Shapez 2 please!
I actually bought this before this video came out! Currently working towards unlocking crystals.
Ah yes, the good old floating point limitation. Given a set amount of digits you can store, the more you use for the integer part the less you can use for the decimals.
YEEEEY! Shapez2 :D! BUT I NEED MORE!
F for the unfortunate shape miner left out in the void
Spiders are not insects, and Termites would like a word with you about giving the title of Engineer to them. They are in your walls right now!
i was not expecting a simple 2D game turn into a super space shape simulator
18:54 I see what you did there..
i have a feeling the efficiency check box is because of lets game it out
Day 12 of asking Matt to play what he wants to play. Because we will enjoy it anyway :)
Are you going to make this into a series by any chance?
U gota play mini motor ways again.
you can delet all need only 1 time shape so every time you do now line
"Lets Engineer It Out"
Great video! Great game! Would love to see the end game!
LETS GO SHAPEZ 2 WOOOOOO
(Fun fact- I was an early tester and I still have the alpha 2 exe on my pic)
Seeing lets game it out and matt play this is such a big and amusing difference
18:54 this shape doesnt seem to be natural 🤔🧐😂