Wheels flex continuously, frames flex, trails can be rough and when the going gets tough, I appreciate all that flex. If you have really stiff wheels, fork/frame flex is appreciated. These things are designed to handle the stress. I call this test mainly subjective. Happy riding!
As long as your frame isn't overly stiff, a stiff set of wheels and a stiff fork can go a long way for improving cornering performance and the bikes ability to track a straight line over rough terrain
The ability to hold a line under at-the-edge riding conditions and the flex differences that might contribute to making it through safely or tossing you off the bike, might be something a hardcore rider can discern. Unfortunately, as a casual cross country rider, I am not that rider. Cost, weight, and even how the fork looks plays a more important role for me, and my Fox34 is perfectly adequate. Nevertheless, a demonstration of this type is appreciated, for going out there and demonstrating with the various forks; the flex criteria. Thanks SickBiker.
I got Fox 32 Step Cast recently and have Reba as well. Both are Boost versions and i must say - while Fox 32 SC is more flexy if you hold the wheel between your legs and twist the handlebar - it's front'back stiffness is front/aft stiffness is actually pretty good - about the same as Reba. For light cross-country i can't really tell the difference and i'm 95kg - i never brake like that to make wheel wobble and don't notice any torsional flex so while Reba is sure stiffer - i wouldn't call Fox 32 SC bad and for riders in 65-75kg cathegory it may be perfect
Good test. It should be noted though that the Fox 32 (if step cast) is the lightest by a good margin, and the lefty (2.0) the heaviest (~400g). Reba comes out amazingly well for the money. Id always pick stiffness over saving a few grams, but it may explain some of the difference.
Owing the SID RLC, RS-1, and 32SC all in boost, The RS1 is my favorite, SID next, and 32SC distance second. The torsional stiffness isn't important as the front to back stiffness. RS1 less torsionally stiff but so sensitive and nice to ride. I'd put them on all my bikes if the hubs weren't so specific.
11/2019: Based on your various reviews and recommendations I just bought a new C'dale F-Si Carbon 5 for my son and I. Never thought I'd buy a 1X drivetrain but it's quite good in NX. Reba shock is quite OK, too. The fit and performance at that price point are good value.
WoW great great video! I was curious about this! I have an old xc bike with 9mm QR axles and a Manitou Marvel Fork, and I always thought that lack of stiffness on my fork was because of the axle! But now I watch your video and see really expensive bikes/forks with massive axles and they do the exact same or even more wobbling than mine!
the right material and right amount of stiffness & flex is important for a component for it to not fail or be too flexible, sadly not everyone gets it right.
Don't forget, important thing for this video: different tire pressure, different break rotors, rotors Can be greasy, forks they are new, or used? Taken into account All this things. BUT AFTER ALL, MY REBA WAS firmer AS now using Fox performancie...
Great video danny, i am using fox 32 float CTD, i am still learning how adjust it and play with the settings. I am not an expert but this fork saved me lots of times from crashing on the trails. I would love to try the rock shox, and lefty although i hate how it looks.
great video, finally somebody how has focus on the import things when testing. I don't understand why bigger concerns have a standard test rig to test the stiffens of forks and other components..
Owning both the Reba and the Fox myself, I personally don't think there is a big difference between them. The Reba feels more harsh with IMO poor small bump sensitivity. The Reba tends to clunk into its initial sag. The Fox feels more plush generally, with a smoother feel at low speed. When riding fast along the trail and the forks are working more into their travel, I feel little difference between them personally - both are capable and both are overpriced for what they are. My Reba had a faulty air chamber which took 2 months to get sorted by Rock Shox/SRAM earlier this year. Kinda leaves a you feeling a bit underwhelmed really.
great test, I test stiffness in forks the same way, the stiffer fork is definitely on the wishlist, many choices, I got Fox 32 Evo 120mm, about as flexy as the one in your video, but so far I never rode on a stiffer fork. Lefty, Öhlins, Formula, DVO, MRP are interesting, but I have to research others more like Magura, Xfusion, Sr Suntour, Manitou According to bikeradar the Öhlins forks are so stiff that you can feel the vibrations more through the handlebars more, than Fox or Rockshox. But I have not tired my self, but a stiff fork will perform much better, but of course too stiff & it will snap. I am about 75kg with all the gear on, maybe more now as I got more muscle. Whenn testinf forks its good to do it when they are new, as you did, as fatigue can affect the results.
I have been considering the fsi 5 carbón with the Reba, just yesterday they posted the new fsi 5 with a fox 32 sc, I’m glad I watched this video. Thank you
the reba is very bad never ride it , feels like its going to snap in half going over anything and will bottom out on any drop but wont compress going over roots. Horrible fork would rather just run rigid.
@@llendlessllofficial7348 i don't think we have the same fork... bought a rockrider XC900 with the base model Reba and it's fantastic, way better than the Fox 32 Performance SC
Great video! But let me give you video shooting tip. When you are making slow motion in edit like this one you should always shoot it at least 60fps but recommendation would be 120fps and you render it 30fps but in video like this one you can low as 24fps. It makes these slow motion cuts WAY smoother and especially clear. PS. new Lefty is released and they claim it's way stiffer than competitors ;)
Helpful video, if not the most scientific test. Lots of variables really should be factored in to make it complete (tires, wheels, etc.), not to mention bottoming, recoils, etc. but still, good job, thanks for making it, and sharing.
Hi Danny! This is not an very good test. You should use the same wheel in the tests. And yes the Lefty is the more stiff because it´s squared doesn´t rotate, the others are round so its normal they rotate a little bit with lateral forces. You are testing the stiffest front fork with the stiffest wheel an carbon wheel :D so its normal that the test goes that way. I as really impressed how the fox was so flexy.... My guess is because is an super light fork with like 1400g only :\
thx for the video currently running a Reba RL (stock) and I hate it it's always stiff until you have a specific shock hole or jump it never moves unless you deflate it too much for your weight, I tried a lefty bike a few years ago and was amazed it actually went up and down like a rear damper does even on small bumps (have a rockshock monarch RL at the rear and it does move all the time as a suspension should but the front reba rl is crap it hurts my shoulders with it's stiffness) the lefty cannondale was the smoothest fully suspended bike (7000+ price) I have ever tried, my problem is I do mostly roads and pretty long distances up to 70miles that Cannondale was clearly for trail/downhill, too soft suspension for me you couldn't lock it firm enough to do mostly roads, that video is unfair as reba rl and fox performance are entry level forks, lefty is high end and should be compared to fox factory or rockshox ultimate but I do agree that lefty is awesome
There’s probably something wrong inside your fork. That’s not normal.. I had a Reba and I had the same problem. After I serviced it, it worked just like the others rockshox, with pretty smart work on small obstacles. They often come from factory not ideally serviced, so you should go after your trust mechanic to take a look at it. 👊
I agree with what some other posters commented. If the Fox 32 SC is so bad and flexy why is it found on most pro xc bikes? I would also like to see the forks compared on a technical trail loop.
i'm riding a 32 and i have to say i feel that its not that stiff, but i like that gives me a smoother ride and also allows some steering mistakes as with a stiff fork the feedback would be very harsh (thats what i think, i haven't ridden a stiffer XC fork lately)
Interesting. Wonder if the results would be the same if the forks were tested on the same bike using a high end carbon rim. I was surprised by the fox.
The Square formed stanchion design is really stiff, why dont use the other factories square formed stanchions and rolling bearings in their forks? Is it patented by Cannondale?
I’m also really shocked that the lefty is the best on stiffness etc especially as it only has one fork leg lol! Awesome design.. I now want a cannondale lefty :)
Fox 36 an Enduro fork, so completely different type. The most expensive version of Fox 32 wouldn't be more stiff and I think the SID World Cup might not be stiffer, than the Reba.
@SickBiker, hi! Nice compare. It will be good if you update your compare with new Lefty Ocho (with single crown) and RS Reba RL(with remote lockout. I plan to bay ether Cannondale F-SI Carbon 5 2020 (reba with remote lockout) or F-SI Carbon 4 2019 (lefty). Carbon 4 with discount, so there are minimal difference ~$200-250. There are 3 main aspects: stiffness, maintenance (regular) and damper (I mean how it works in locked out state: how much it is stiff?) Is there any chance to do that compare?
Such a great video! Very well explained concepts and you show us what you mean. That you so much for this. I have a better understanding of what people are referring to when they mention stiffness.
USD forks have better fore-aft rigidity but less torsional rigidity. So RS-1's performance does not surprise me. Lefty benefits massively from the dual crown design
It is very sad that lefty is almost disappearing from Cannondale bikes, I can see it mounted only on top end bikes. I had lefty on my 2004 Jekyll and it was great. Btw great video, as usual.
I agree. I have the Fox 32 SC on my '17 Trek Superfly and the fork is very flexy. It's even more flexy because I'm a havy rider with my 90Kg but it's for my opinion a good working fork.
Sickbiker you should do one more test railing some turns and going over a rock garden, it's a must, we ask (some demand). Also, I'm under the impression that the lefty would be demolished by the RS SID WC, for what I can see, and surprised by the performance of the fox, any chance you can throw a suntour epixon in the review???
Thanks for this, good to watch. My Fox 32 SC '17 GRIP will be relegated to gravel bike use only. My wife's RS Reba '18 I got for some really small change and was really impressed with how PLUSH that fork felt and yes, just more 'quality' than the 32 SC, I think the solidness as shown in this test is what I felt in some small way... I'd like to see how the new '19 RS SID performs as my Scott Spark RC Team '19 came with this (the new model replaced the '18 Fox 32 GRIP thank god!!!) - I'm sure it's stiffer but how much I'm not sure.
Are they all 15x100 forks, non-boost? And wheel could affect things i think - weak wheels flex under braking making things woble. It would be better if same wheel was used...and even better -same brakes. But overall this is how it is in the real life. If only Reba wasn't behind so much with it's damper compared to Float 32 while being more expensive at the same time...
Fox Evolution 32 on 650b, 130 mm travel (in RL looks more like 120). After ancient Suntour XCP on 26 (80 mm travel, but looks more like 50). Fox is way better :-) Never had a chance to own Rockshox to compare. It's pretty stiff, works plush. When I see such comparisons, I feel bad about my fox, looks like it's unbelievably bad. But when I ride it, it's a pure joy, takes all abuse on my local trails without a hickup.
Thanks for the review. I just bought a Canyon Lux and it comes with a Reba RL, I also have a Steep Cast 32 on my old bike. Although it is heavier but 10mm more travel, given the fact it’s stiffer and a bit more travel I would think it would be the better fork for marathon racing. I appreciate your review, thanks.
really shouldnt be comparing the flex with the tire between your legs. the stiffest of dh forks can be made to do that. having flex there improves tracking in rough terrain. the front to back stiffness is way more important.
True, and the reba is hardly the best sub 500 fork aswell. Manitou & RST make much better forks for the price. The others i find pretty meh at best compared to actual high end brands like DVO, Ohlings & that super quirky lauf.
2010 Rockshox SID 100MM . Major flex. Tire rubs almost all the time on the left when pedaling standing up. I can hear it rubbing pretty frequently in hard right turns & chatter. I admit that half of the flex is in the wheel, though. Remember that wheels are not laced symmetric & the left side has less angle. Half of the flex is in the wheel.
Checked the wheels used in video, if anyone is curious they are DTswiss X1700 (1632g, 22mm wide) in Fox Float 32SC test and X1900 (1767g, 20m, wide) for Reba...Both seem to be stock wheelsets. But dunno which is stiffer - the lighter (but wider) one or the other... I also tried to measure visually fore/aft flex of Float and Reba (by puting mouse cursor against it and measuring how far it flexes), and it seems Float is no worse in this regard, but torsional stiffness is better for Reba. I wonder if boost version of F32SC will be slightly better in this regard...
Marmarc Berserker great forks. I have a 2008 talas. This generation of forks is nice because they aren't nearly as sensitive to oil loss because they have so much to start with. The open damper it also really easy to service
hi danny! now i have a scalpel si with carbon lefty and carbon wheels and you can't get any stiffer than that!!! i am curious how a rs sid wc would react on a test like this
Well, and what's the hub attached to? Right - the sliders and stanchions of the fork. And what do you think will have the greater effect on stiffness? Right - the longer thing with the most leverage - aka the sliders and stanchions, aka the fork.
I have a set of Fox 32 performance on my alloy hard tail Genesis, and they perform brilliantly, and are smooth as silk. So maybe the flex is coming from your Carbon, all singing, all dancing frame, the head tube particularly. I also have a set of Rock Shox Reba's as my spare set, and they are fine too. I have no complaints at all on the performance of either fork.
that fox are good I know but that a reba is ? no they are bad at least the RL I had fox which were great, 2 rebas that I always disliked it's not even a suspension it's either compressed or stiff :/ and I was able to try a cannondale lefty on which I did +- 10 miles to test and it was awesome but too soft for my use (couldn't lock it completely on that older model they probably fixed that with 3 modes nowadays)
Is it boost or non boost, less or more offset, wheelset? There are a lot of variables that make quite a difference. This is not realy a scientific test.
Nice video but there is one thing..you are doing the experiment with different handlebars, stems , wheels and not the same front end angle and stiffness of every frame , so for people new to the sport there will be misconceptions. After all I pretty much agree with you , cheers
You're right Nikos - this is not a scientific approach (which sometimes doesn't help in real life), but the behavior of the front wheel during braking is obvious here. I was actually surprised by how much difference there is between these forks.
Amazing video! Do the comparison between the top end rockshox fork Sid and some other Brand's like DT Swiss, the famous orange Fox Step cast and Manitou. Thanks for the rich content and cheer's from Brazil :)
Great video, a little disappointed to see the Fox flexing so much compared to the others considering that my new Trek Top Fuel 9.8 has one. I do not notice the flexiness at all but I haven't ridden all those different forks. What I can say from experience is that I had a 2013 RS Sid XX World Cup on my old bike which I really enjoyed in terms of weight and climbing stiffness, but it was like a paper clip compared to my 32 SC. The step cast feels nicer in terms of suspension quality, weight is killer, and it is way stiffer than the Sid.
Without seeing the video i would say that the Lefty has to be the most stiff fork, because having one leg is a big challenge from the design point. It's also the smoothest and might be the best fork over there (from reviews and user experience). The problem with it is that the maintenance is almost imposible to be done at home, that's why people has also told me not to buy Cannondale if i like to do the maintenance on my own. What most shocked me was the FOX fork, i was expecting much better stiffness. I have had a 2013 Reba RL on my (first) bike, and it performs great, specially after doing some maintenance on it.
A test of enduro forks would be interesting too, I wish magazine reviews were more in-depth, but it's nice to have independent reviewers not being rushed, and do a proper job.
I have a set of Rock Shox Reba's which are about 10 years old, and they're fine. But like everything, it all depends how you use and service them. Using them for DH as opposed to trail riding, is gonna speed up the wear and tear, especially if you don't service them regularly.
Im riding the Lefty as well. I thought it was a dumb weak fork years ago until I saw some Cannondale demo videos. You are correct they are incredibly stiff. I love it. I have 3 of them. Its amazing the needle bearings allow the fork to move under extreme radial loading which cause binding in the bushings of conventional forks. This freedom to move under side loading allows the fork to leave the wheel planted on the ground for superior traction and.. transfers less of the bumps force to the riders arms reducing rider fatigue. There are two additional benefits to the lefty as well, first is the weight, the fork weighs close to 3/4 of a pound lighter than standard telescopic forks, and the other is that since Lefty uses two fork leg supports (one on top of the head tube and one on bottom) this adds to the incredible stiffness of this fork. Its amazing to see the demo of rigidity when a 175 pound guy supports himself on the end of the fork leg and the telescopic action of this fork is as smooth as glass. Anybody who wants a super precise rigid fork should look up the benefits of Lefty fork and check out the demos of how amazingly strong this engineering marvel is !
it looks like your style is cross country? you should put that in your bio. about your front suspension analysis, there arent alot of good mountain bike engineers. the front of the bicycle has seen minimal changes over the years. your next purchase should be a slow mo cam so your slow mo wouldnt be blury.
freeyourmind There are good engineers, they just produce everything in Taiwan. And depending on how much the manufacturers control the quality of their products it affects the final things that we buy.
Will not be coming to mtb. Think about the weight that is added. Plus the fact that the disc brakes that we have now can easily stop a bike Think before you comment
Hell yeah you can. People were using that size back when 17mm was the norm. I am using a 2.35 Ikon on my front with a 23 mm rim and had a Conti MK2 2.4 on a 21mm rim with no issues. Ignore the size comment below. Tire width is not the only factor in determining rolling resistance and speed. Rubber compound, weight, tread and carcass tpi also factor in and besides ,all esle being equal the fatter tire will have more grip which can make you faster than the tire that rolls faster it all depends on the terrain.
How could you compare forks without Sid? :) You took the most noodlish RS, FOX, budget RS and Lefty that costs much, weights a lot, requires expensive and more qualified service and still not so stiff where it's needed (and stiff where don't). The era of Lefty had gone, sadly but that's how it is.
I have two 29er, one with Reba RL (QR9mm) and the other is Sid RL (15x100mm), my weight is 78k and both bikes at same pressure on forks and wheels... SID is stiffer
I like what you are trying to do, but there is no standards or measurements to be able to say anything other than you "feel" one is better than the other. Everything is different between each fork. Frames are different, wheels are different, position is different, speed is different, turn angle is different. If you are only going to go by "feeling' - a better test would be to find a short trail loop and do 2 or 3 laps on each fork and give impressions after. I really enjoy your videos and like this comparison idea, but I really didn't get any usable information from this.
i run 2010 fox f 80 terralogic 32 mm fork and i like them maybe newer models are weighs less and it makes more flexy but i like the feel of fox and i am never used quality roxshox or oher brands
I have 32 sc on my superfly 7 and im kinda dissapointed with its stiffnes. When braking it wobbles alot back and forth, on the other hand im 90kg. Also when i talked to people they say that compared to SID it is stiffer. Havent got one so i cant tell.
If you know how to set them up it's as smooth as cream, and a little weight up front with a good stiff 15mm axle makes a bike with a good frame fly. :D
@@user-yv2cz8oj1k But thats the whole point. the 32 SC is lighter and thus there is more flex. The epicon would look like rubbish compared to a regular 32. Also imo the 32 looks wayyy better.
muy parecido seria en rigidez, tambien es importante la longitud maxima de la horquilla desde la base de la pipa de direccion al eje de rueda... por cuestion de palancas
To do a test like this you have to do EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME> Use the same bike , same tires, same tire pressure, same viscosity or thickness of oil in each fork ( oil thickness can change a forks performance like compression for example ) same torque amount on the pedals, same speed, same surfaces at the same outside temperature, and you need to RIDE the bike over many different textures of surface to get feedback on various types of hits and how the fork will handle them... like for example washboard or stutter bumps, medium sized hits, large sized hits, at the SAME speeds. A little thing like tire knob pattern can get a wobble difference under the conditions you subjected it to. Ask any true scientist or engineer and they will tell you that it is quite difficult to get a true non-biasd or accurate test without a well established and thought out baseline.But then again, they still call an engineer who graduated last in his/her class ....an engineer . I would hardly base choosing which fork was right for me based on the video i just watched. You have a great enthusiasm for mountain bikes and I applaud that. just get some mechanical engineers to assist you with your testing methods.
Am I the only one that thought yhat both lefty and reba were flexing like crazy? The upside down rockshox looked way stiffer. But we will never see stiff forks until we get oversize legs, both the outer and inner and go upside down with even larfer diameter through axle. The Mtb frames are already super long so making the main triangle even 5 cm longer and use an upsidedown fork with two triple crowns/yokes will make the stem unnecessary. But as akways we are getting there in small steps. In other words we are being milked.
I expected some facts, but it's pure subjective opinion based on different wheelsets and different twists and turns of the rider. No measurement of the wobbliness, no measurement of the bending. Pretty disappointing after clicking the click-bait title.
My guess is most of the stiffness comes from Lefty's double crowns.
Wheels flex continuously, frames flex, trails can be rough and when the going gets tough, I appreciate all that flex. If you have really stiff wheels, fork/frame flex is appreciated. These things are designed to handle the stress. I call this test mainly subjective. Happy riding!
As long as your frame isn't overly stiff, a stiff set of wheels and a stiff fork can go a long way for improving cornering performance and the bikes ability to track a straight line over rough terrain
@@ethanbenton6676 true, but you can compensate for a weaker frame and wheels just by running lower air pressure in your tyres.
I feel like this test couldve been more accurate had they all been on the same bike with the same wheels and tyres etc
yes
Nah not that Big of a difference
Proud owner of a 2014 Reba RL SA 120mm.
Only paid 300€ 3 years ago.
Nice video 👍🏼
Wow brilliant video ! I cannot believe how much flex there is on most forks
The ability to hold a line under at-the-edge riding conditions and the flex differences that might contribute to making it through safely or tossing you off the bike, might be something a hardcore rider can discern. Unfortunately, as a casual cross country rider, I am not that rider. Cost, weight, and even how the fork looks plays a more important role for me, and my Fox34 is perfectly adequate. Nevertheless, a demonstration of this type is appreciated, for going out there and demonstrating with the various forks; the flex criteria. Thanks SickBiker.
I bought Cannondale scalpel si carbon 29er lefty and the lefty makes big difference between my 32 Fox and Rock shock Reba, I m happy with my lefty.
This test would need to be updated I'm curious how XC forks with bigger stanchions do today, it feels better than 5 yrs ago...
I got Fox 32 Step Cast recently and have Reba as well. Both are Boost versions and i must say - while Fox 32 SC is more flexy if you hold the wheel between your legs and twist the handlebar - it's front'back stiffness is front/aft stiffness is actually pretty good - about the same as Reba. For light cross-country i can't really tell the difference and i'm 95kg - i never brake like that to make wheel wobble and don't notice any torsional flex so while Reba is sure stiffer - i wouldn't call Fox 32 SC bad and for riders in 65-75kg cathegory it may be perfect
Alexander T Couldn't say it better!
Good test. It should be noted though that the Fox 32 (if step cast) is the lightest by a good margin, and the lefty (2.0) the heaviest (~400g). Reba comes out amazingly well for the money. Id always pick stiffness over saving a few grams, but it may explain some of the difference.
Owing the SID RLC, RS-1, and 32SC all in boost, The RS1 is my favorite, SID next, and 32SC distance second. The torsional stiffness isn't important as the front to back stiffness. RS1 less torsionally stiff but so sensitive and nice to ride. I'd put them on all my bikes if the hubs weren't so specific.
You should be using the same bike and same wheel for each test imo
11/2019: Based on your various reviews and recommendations I just bought a new C'dale F-Si Carbon 5 for my son and I. Never thought I'd buy a 1X drivetrain but it's quite good in NX. Reba shock is quite OK, too. The fit and performance at that price point are good value.
WoW great great video! I was curious about this!
I have an old xc bike with 9mm QR axles and a Manitou Marvel Fork, and I always thought that lack of stiffness on my fork was because of the axle! But now I watch your video and see really expensive bikes/forks with massive axles and they do the exact same or even more wobbling than mine!
the right material and right amount of stiffness & flex is important for a component for it to not fail or be too flexible, sadly not everyone gets it right.
Don't forget, important thing for this video: different tire pressure, different break rotors, rotors Can be greasy, forks they are new, or used? Taken into account All this things. BUT AFTER ALL, MY REBA WAS firmer AS now using Fox performancie...
Great video danny, i am using fox 32 float CTD, i am still learning how adjust it and play with the settings. I am not an expert but this fork saved me lots of times from crashing on the trails. I would love to try the rock shox, and lefty although i hate how it looks.
Stiffness doesnt always means performance and control...I have a 2019 Reba RL and love it 🤘
If you take suspension and damping to be a given, than yes.
great video, finally somebody how has focus on the import things when testing. I don't understand why bigger concerns have a standard test rig to test the stiffens of forks and other components..
When you have the wheel between your knees the most travel comes from the wheel and not from the fork in my opinion.
wat
Owning both the Reba and the Fox myself, I personally don't think there is a big difference between them. The Reba feels more harsh with IMO poor small bump sensitivity. The Reba tends to clunk into its initial sag. The Fox feels more plush generally, with a smoother feel at low speed.
When riding fast along the trail and the forks are working more into their travel, I feel little difference between them personally - both are capable and both are overpriced for what they are.
My Reba had a faulty air chamber which took 2 months to get sorted by Rock Shox/SRAM earlier this year. Kinda leaves a you feeling a bit underwhelmed really.
did you do this all test with same wheelset not for the lefty i wonder this thing like good fork with cheap wheel etc
great test, I test stiffness in forks the same way, the stiffer fork is definitely on the wishlist, many choices, I got Fox 32 Evo 120mm, about as flexy as the one in your video, but so far I never rode on a stiffer fork.
Lefty, Öhlins, Formula, DVO, MRP are interesting, but I have to research others more like Magura, Xfusion, Sr Suntour, Manitou
According to bikeradar the Öhlins forks are so stiff that you can feel the vibrations more through the handlebars more, than Fox or Rockshox. But I have not tired my self, but a stiff fork will perform much better, but of course too stiff & it will snap.
I am about 75kg with all the gear on, maybe more now as I got more muscle.
Whenn testinf forks its good to do it when they are new, as you did, as fatigue can affect the results.
I have been considering the fsi 5 carbón with the Reba, just yesterday they posted the new fsi 5 with a fox 32 sc, I’m glad I watched this video. Thank you
i have a friend with the reba verson and he hates the fork maybe the 32 is an upgrade
the reba is very bad never ride it , feels like its going to snap in half going over anything and will bottom out on any drop but wont compress going over roots. Horrible fork would rather just run rigid.
@@llendlessllofficial7348 i don't think we have the same fork... bought a rockrider XC900 with the base model Reba and it's fantastic, way better than the Fox 32 Performance SC
Remember the good ol days when all forks were QR? They were in the Flex Cittty!
Great video! But let me give you video shooting tip. When you are making slow motion in edit like this one you should always shoot it at least 60fps but recommendation would be 120fps and you render it 30fps but in video like this one you can low as 24fps. It makes these slow motion cuts WAY smoother and especially clear. PS. new Lefty is released and they claim it's way stiffer than competitors ;)
Helpful video, if not the most scientific test. Lots of variables really should be factored in to make it complete (tires, wheels, etc.), not to mention bottoming, recoils, etc. but still, good job, thanks for making it, and sharing.
Hi Danny! This is not an very good test. You should use the same wheel in the tests. And yes the Lefty is the more stiff because it´s squared doesn´t rotate, the others are round so its normal they rotate a little bit with lateral forces. You are testing the stiffest front fork with the stiffest wheel an carbon wheel :D so its normal that the test goes that way. I as really impressed how the fox was so flexy.... My guess is because is an super light fork with like 1400g only :\
Shouldn't you use the same front wheel in all your test?
surprised with the lefty
ratoneJR +1
thx for the video currently running a Reba RL (stock) and I hate it it's always stiff until you have a specific shock hole or jump it never moves unless you deflate it too much for your weight, I tried a lefty bike a few years ago and was amazed it actually went up and down like a rear damper does even on small bumps (have a rockshock monarch RL at the rear and it does move all the time as a suspension should but the front reba rl is crap it hurts my shoulders with it's stiffness) the lefty cannondale was the smoothest fully suspended bike (7000+ price) I have ever tried, my problem is I do mostly roads and pretty long distances up to 70miles that Cannondale was clearly for trail/downhill, too soft suspension for me you couldn't lock it firm enough to do mostly roads, that video is unfair as reba rl and fox performance are entry level forks, lefty is high end and should be compared to fox factory or rockshox ultimate but I do agree that lefty is awesome
There’s probably something wrong inside your fork. That’s not normal.. I had a Reba and I had the same problem. After I serviced it, it worked just like the others rockshox, with pretty smart work on small obstacles. They often come from factory not ideally serviced, so you should go after your trust mechanic to take a look at it. 👊
I agree with what some other posters commented. If the Fox 32 SC is so bad and flexy why is it found on most pro xc bikes? I would also like to see the forks compared on a technical trail loop.
Great video by the way. I ride a Fox 32 SC so I'm biased. Haha
Because its a half pound lighter than anything else
Fox fan boys and I think it is lighter
i'm riding a 32 and i have to say i feel that its not that stiff, but i like that gives me a smoother ride and also allows some steering mistakes
as with a stiff fork the feedback would be very harsh (thats what i think, i haven't ridden a stiffer XC fork lately)
Reba RL’s are great forks, i just wish they would go back to dual air as they were so much smoother
Interesting. Wonder if the results would be the same if the forks were tested on the same bike using a high end carbon rim. I was surprised by the fox.
The Square formed stanchion design is really stiff, why dont use the other factories square formed stanchions and rolling bearings in their forks? Is it patented by Cannondale?
rcs2003 isn't it triangle or is that the ocho model
I’m also really shocked that the lefty is the best on stiffness etc especially as it only has one fork leg lol! Awesome design.. I now want a cannondale lefty :)
Fox 36 an Enduro fork, so completely different type. The most expensive version of Fox 32 wouldn't be more stiff and I think the SID World Cup might not be stiffer, than the Reba.
SickBiker I agree
For a budget is the Rockshox reba still good value or if I have the money should I get the SID?
@SickBiker, hi! Nice compare. It will be good if you update your compare with new Lefty Ocho (with single crown) and RS Reba RL(with remote lockout. I plan to bay ether Cannondale F-SI Carbon 5 2020 (reba with remote lockout) or F-SI Carbon 4 2019 (lefty). Carbon 4 with discount, so there are minimal difference ~$200-250. There are 3 main aspects: stiffness, maintenance (regular) and damper (I mean how it works in locked out state: how much it is stiff?)
Is there any chance to do that compare?
747 jumbo jets use the Lefty design for a reason: bombproof!
They got 2 wheels on the fork while the bike has 1. Lefty is amazing though
@siemenssx1 space, or lack thereof
@siemenssx1 I was taking about planes, not bikes
@siemenssx1 style, I guess, and a teeny tiny weight difference
@siemenssx1 yeah, the wheel is also a pain in the arse to get off the fork.
Such a great video! Very well explained concepts and you show us what you mean. That you so much for this. I have a better understanding of what people are referring to when they mention stiffness.
i really fucking like the lefty
USD forks have better fore-aft rigidity but less torsional rigidity. So RS-1's performance does not surprise me. Lefty benefits massively from the dual crown design
It is very sad that lefty is almost disappearing from Cannondale bikes, I can see it mounted only on top end bikes. I had lefty on my 2004 Jekyll and it was great. Btw great video, as usual.
Giuseppe Floriani
I didn’t know that...?!(disappearing)
I have never rode a lefty what does it feel like?
I agree. I have the Fox 32 SC on my '17 Trek Superfly and the fork is very flexy. It's even more flexy because I'm a havy rider with my 90Kg but it's for my opinion a good working fork.
Sickbiker you should do one more test railing some turns and going over a rock garden, it's a must, we ask (some demand). Also, I'm under the impression that the lefty would be demolished by the RS SID WC, for what I can see, and surprised by the performance of the fox, any chance you can throw a suntour epixon in the review???
Thanks for this, good to watch. My Fox 32 SC '17 GRIP will be relegated to gravel bike use only. My wife's RS Reba '18 I got for some really small change and was really impressed with how PLUSH that fork felt and yes, just more 'quality' than the 32 SC, I think the solidness as shown in this test is what I felt in some small way... I'd like to see how the new '19 RS SID performs as my Scott Spark RC Team '19 came with this (the new model replaced the '18 Fox 32 GRIP thank god!!!) - I'm sure it's stiffer but how much I'm not sure.
And about Marzocchi and Magura forks... any test will be possible to make in near future?
Are they all 15x100 forks, non-boost? And wheel could affect things i think - weak wheels flex under braking making things woble. It would be better if same wheel was used...and even better -same brakes. But overall this is how it is in the real life. If only Reba wasn't behind so much with it's damper compared to Float 32 while being more expensive at the same time...
Fox Evolution 32 on 650b, 130 mm travel (in RL looks more like 120). After ancient Suntour XCP on 26 (80 mm travel, but looks more like 50).
Fox is way better :-) Never had a chance to own Rockshox to compare.
It's pretty stiff, works plush.
When I see such comparisons, I feel bad about my fox, looks like it's unbelievably bad. But when I ride it, it's a pure joy, takes all abuse on my local trails without a hickup.
Thanks for the review. I just bought a Canyon Lux and it comes with a Reba RL, I also have a Steep Cast 32 on my old bike. Although it is heavier but 10mm more travel, given the fact it’s stiffer and a bit more travel I would think it would be the better fork for marathon racing. I appreciate your review, thanks.
really shouldnt be comparing the flex with the tire between your legs. the stiffest of dh forks can be made to do that. having flex there improves tracking in rough terrain. the front to back stiffness is way more important.
True, and the reba is hardly the best sub 500 fork aswell. Manitou & RST make much better forks for the price. The others i find pretty meh at best compared to actual high end brands like DVO, Ohlings & that super quirky lauf.
So true. This is tire flex!!!! This fork would need to be tested without a tire, attached to some kind of platform
2010 Rockshox SID 100MM . Major flex. Tire rubs almost all the time on the left when pedaling standing up. I can hear it rubbing pretty frequently in hard right turns & chatter. I admit that half of the flex is in the wheel, though. Remember that wheels are not laced symmetric & the left side has less angle. Half of the flex is in the wheel.
Lefty Max 140mm here. Stiff, versatile, smooth... A beast for sure.
I would never get a lefty as it would mess with my ocd so hard...
Checked the wheels used in video, if anyone is curious they are DTswiss X1700 (1632g, 22mm wide) in Fox Float 32SC test and X1900 (1767g, 20m, wide) for Reba...Both seem to be stock wheelsets. But dunno which is stiffer - the lighter (but wider) one or the other... I also tried to measure visually fore/aft flex of Float and Reba (by puting mouse cursor against it and measuring how far it flexes), and it seems Float is no worse in this regard, but torsional stiffness is better for Reba. I wonder if boost version of F32SC will be slightly better in this regard...
I use a 2007 fox f100 with the old style damper that uses 155mL of oil. My favorite fork
Also my, fox F100 rl 2008 :)
Marmarc Berserker great forks. I have a 2008 talas. This generation of forks is nice because they aren't nearly as sensitive to oil loss because they have so much to start with. The open damper it also really easy to service
affirmative :) open bath is much mor effective then fit cartrige
hi danny! now i have a scalpel si with carbon lefty and carbon wheels and you can't get any stiffer than that!!! i am curious how a rs sid wc would react on a test like this
Seems like most of that flex would come from the hub/axle, not the suspension. Am I missing something here?
Well, and what's the hub attached to? Right - the sliders and stanchions of the fork. And what do you think will have the greater effect on stiffness? Right - the longer thing with the most leverage - aka the sliders and stanchions, aka the fork.
pretty sure that a wheel is going to be taller than your fork
But how does the lefty compare to a similarly priced RockShox or Fox?
I have a set of Fox 32 performance on my alloy hard tail Genesis, and they perform brilliantly, and are smooth as silk. So maybe the flex is coming from your Carbon, all singing, all dancing frame, the head tube particularly.
I also have a set of Rock Shox Reba's as my spare set, and they are fine too. I have no complaints at all on the performance of either fork.
I KNOW I THING FOR SURE : YOU NEVER RIDE WITH A LEFTY FORK
that fox are good I know but that a reba is ? no they are bad at least the RL I had fox which were great, 2 rebas that I always disliked it's not even a suspension it's either compressed or stiff :/ and I was able to try a cannondale lefty on which I did +- 10 miles to test and it was awesome but too soft for my use (couldn't lock it completely on that older model they probably fixed that with 3 modes nowadays)
Hercules Roadeo A475 is good cycle to buy I am so confused sir please suggest can I buy it I am your subscriber 😕😕😕👍👍👍
Is it boost or non boost, less or more offset, wheelset? There are a lot of variables that make quite a difference. This is not realy a scientific test.
No its not a scientific test. Everyone knows that a carbon FRAME is not as stiff as a steel or alloy frame.
many pro xc riders uses the fox step cast, would it make sense none of them complains about the flex ? perhaps the flex is needed for some reason ?
Nice video but there is one thing..you are doing the experiment with different handlebars, stems , wheels and not the same front end angle and stiffness of every frame , so for people new to the sport there will be misconceptions. After all I pretty much agree with you , cheers
You're right Nikos - this is not a scientific approach (which sometimes doesn't help in real life), but the behavior of the front wheel during braking is obvious here. I was actually surprised by how much difference there is between these forks.
head angles will play a big role, but when doing stoppies, similar stunts, it does not matter.
Thanks , by looking at your video. I just understood that stiffness thing.
I thought my brakes were bad , but it's actually my Manitou M30 fork.
How about the new 32SC for 2020? They say it is stiffer.
Amazing video! Do the comparison between the top end rockshox fork Sid and some other Brand's like DT Swiss, the famous orange Fox Step cast and Manitou. Thanks for the rich content and cheer's from Brazil :)
Great video, a little disappointed to see the Fox flexing so much compared to the others considering that my new Trek Top Fuel 9.8 has one. I do not notice the flexiness at all but I haven't ridden all those different forks. What I can say from experience is that I had a 2013 RS Sid XX World Cup on my old bike which I really enjoyed in terms of weight and climbing stiffness, but it was like a paper clip compared to my 32 SC. The step cast feels nicer in terms of suspension quality, weight is killer, and it is way stiffer than the Sid.
Without seeing the video i would say that the Lefty has to be the most stiff fork, because having one leg is a big challenge from the design point. It's also the smoothest and might be the best fork over there (from reviews and user experience). The problem with it is that the maintenance is almost imposible to be done at home, that's why people has also told me not to buy Cannondale if i like to do the maintenance on my own.
What most shocked me was the FOX fork, i was expecting much better stiffness.
I have had a 2013 Reba RL on my (first) bike, and it performs great, specially after doing some maintenance on it.
A test of enduro forks would be interesting too, I wish magazine reviews were more in-depth, but it's nice to have independent reviewers not being rushed, and do a proper job.
I have marzocchi exr bombers I bought in 04. I cant decide on what to upgrade too. Been told Rockshocks dont last very long. 2 years.
They do last a long time. My old recon lasted almost 10 years!
I have a set of Rock Shox Reba's which are about 10 years old, and they're fine. But like everything, it all depends how you use and service them.
Using them for DH as opposed to trail riding, is gonna speed up the wear and tear, especially if you don't service them regularly.
Im riding the Lefty as well. I thought it was a dumb weak fork years ago until I saw some Cannondale demo videos. You are correct they are incredibly stiff. I love it. I have 3 of them. Its amazing the needle bearings allow the fork to move under extreme radial loading which cause binding in the bushings of conventional forks. This freedom to move under side loading allows the fork to leave the wheel planted on the ground for superior traction and.. transfers less of the bumps force to the riders arms reducing rider fatigue. There are two additional benefits to the lefty as well, first is the weight, the fork weighs close to 3/4 of a pound lighter than standard telescopic forks, and the other is that since Lefty uses two fork leg supports (one on top of the head tube and one on bottom) this adds to the incredible stiffness of this fork. Its amazing to see the demo of rigidity when a 175 pound guy supports himself on the end of the fork leg and the telescopic action of this fork is as smooth as glass. Anybody who wants a super precise rigid fork should look up the benefits of Lefty fork and check out the demos of how amazingly strong this engineering marvel is !
that is what I felt too on my fox 32, good damping, but twisted scary under my 88 kg. Never again. Maybe a 34.
it looks like your style is cross country? you should put that in your bio. about your front suspension analysis, there arent alot of good mountain bike engineers. the front of the bicycle has seen minimal changes over the years. your next purchase should be a slow mo cam so your slow mo wouldnt be blury.
freeyourmind There are good engineers, they just produce everything in Taiwan. And depending on how much the manufacturers control the quality of their products it affects the final things that we buy.
Motorcycle manufacturers went through the same process decades ago, double disk front ends will be coming to MTB's soon.
Garry Cooper any example?
Will not be coming to mtb. Think about the weight that is added. Plus the fact that the disc brakes that we have now can easily stop a bike
Think before you comment
twin disks would be smaller and apply an even pull on the wheel
Hi sir I need your advice, I have a manitou markor fork, will there be a difference if I upgrade to a Fox 32 sc aside from weight?
Hi I have a question. My rims are 23mm internal, is it ok to put on 2.35 tyres on it?would you also recommend 2.35 tyres for xc?
For XC, i think 2.1 and 2.2 are the best, you ll get better rolling resistance, and speed.
Hell yeah you can. People were using that size back when 17mm was the norm. I am using a 2.35 Ikon on my front with a 23 mm rim and had a Conti MK2 2.4 on a 21mm rim with no issues.
Ignore the size comment below. Tire width is not the only factor in determining rolling resistance and speed. Rubber compound, weight, tread and carcass tpi also factor in and besides ,all esle being equal the fatter tire will have more grip which can make you faster than the tire that rolls faster it all depends on the terrain.
Hi Mate, can you please tell me if there’s any difference between the Fox 32 in your review and the Fox 32 Rhythm?
The Rythm is a slightly lower quality fork compared to the fox 32 in the video, and is made of a slightly heavier metal, to save money.
The rhythm is heavier and cheaper, in terms of comfort it's the same
Could you make a follow-up and incorporate Lefty Ocho in this demo, please? ;)
How could you compare forks without Sid? :) You took the most noodlish RS, FOX, budget RS and Lefty that costs much, weights a lot, requires expensive and more qualified service and still not so stiff where it's needed (and stiff where don't). The era of Lefty had gone, sadly but that's how it is.
2:33 that cable rub on the fork.....
I have two Rockshox bikes and one Fox bike and I can’t tell any difference with them. They all are fine to me.
Hi! And how, in your opinion, does a manitou machete or markhor (with an axis, of course) compare to Reba?
This is just my experience, but for me the Reba was way better. It felt more accurate and so far I haven’t had any problems yet.
I have two 29er, one with Reba RL (QR9mm) and the other is Sid RL (15x100mm), my weight is 78k and both bikes at same pressure on forks and wheels... SID is stiffer
Manuel Martinez yeah you got it, it's the axles. Throughaxles are stiffer in any way
I use a 2018 Pike, stiffest fork I have ever used hands down.
Using an old Rockshox SID race 2012 dual air love it
Boris Georgiev i have old SID too 😅, Rockshox SID RLT
it is a god damn good fork IMO specially for a guy like me 100kg :D
I like what you are trying to do, but there is no standards or measurements to be able to say anything other than you "feel" one is better than the other. Everything is different between each fork. Frames are different, wheels are different, position is different, speed is different, turn angle is different. If you are only going to go by "feeling' - a better test would be to find a short trail loop and do 2 or 3 laps on each fork and give impressions after. I really enjoy your videos and like this comparison idea, but I really didn't get any usable information from this.
Couldn't agree more. Besides that, he's comparing mid end fox vs high end Lefty/RS.
i run 2010 fox f 80 terralogic 32 mm fork and i like them maybe newer models are weighs less and it makes more flexy but i like the feel of fox and i am never used quality roxshox or oher brands
You may have just sold me on a Reba RL to keep my Salsa Spearfish running one more year.
Awesome video. Looking at specs, the Reba RL is half the price of the RS-1 but is listed as LIGHTER. As well as stiffer. Hmm.
Robert Wilke the performance isn't there tho
I have 32 sc on my superfly 7 and im kinda dissapointed with its stiffnes. When braking it wobbles alot back and forth, on the other hand im 90kg. Also when i talked to people they say that compared to SID it is stiffer. Havent got one so i cant tell.
Lefty all the way. I ride a 2015 Scalpel Carbon 3 with a lefty and love it 😍 compared to other forks it stands alone
Can no one see the stanchion flex on that lefty?
How about the epixon stiffness?I hope I can get a answer from u😂😂😂
Mientras más la veo, mas me gusta la Lefty 😍
The Suntour Epicon/Epixon makes that Fox fork look like utter rubbish.
But then again, the 32 is lighter, and has a better damper.
If you know how to set them up it's as smooth as cream, and a little weight up front with a good stiff 15mm axle makes a bike with a good frame fly. :D
@@user-yv2cz8oj1k But thats the whole point. the 32 SC is lighter and thus there is more flex. The epicon would look like rubbish compared to a regular 32. Also imo the 32 looks wayyy better.
Epicon is pure garbage.
@@policies8534 you should try one
I'm looking to replace my Fox Talas 32 29er 120mm... Which one should I get?
Kevin Cabral fox talas is a great fork, why would you change it?
On the same materials wich is stiffer a 100/30 or a 120/32?
Thanks
i dont know hopefully someone who does will
muy parecido seria en rigidez, tambien es importante la longitud maxima de la horquilla desde la base de la pipa de direccion al eje de rueda... por cuestion de palancas
To do a test like this you have to do EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME> Use the same bike , same tires, same tire pressure, same viscosity or thickness of oil in each fork ( oil thickness can change a forks performance like compression for example ) same torque amount on the pedals, same speed, same surfaces at the same outside temperature, and you need to RIDE the bike over many different textures of surface to get feedback on various types of hits and how the fork will handle them... like for example washboard or stutter bumps, medium sized hits, large sized hits, at the SAME speeds. A little thing like tire knob pattern can get a wobble difference under the conditions you subjected it to. Ask any true scientist or engineer and they will tell you that it is quite difficult to get a true non-biasd or accurate test without a well established and thought out baseline.But then again, they still call an engineer who graduated last in his/her class ....an engineer . I would hardly base choosing which fork was right for me based on the video i just watched. You have a great enthusiasm for mountain bikes and I applaud that. just get some mechanical engineers to assist you with your testing methods.
William Morris you are so right
You expained it good this test says nothing it is not even a good test
I was hoping that somebody will notice the lack of controlled variables
What about SID.
Am I the only one that thought yhat both lefty and reba were flexing like crazy? The upside down rockshox looked way stiffer.
But we will never see stiff forks until we get oversize legs, both the outer and inner and go upside down with even larfer diameter through axle. The Mtb frames are already super long so making the main triangle even 5 cm longer and use an upsidedown fork with two triple crowns/yokes will make the stem unnecessary. But as akways we are getting there in small steps. In other words we are being milked.
I expected some facts, but it's pure subjective opinion based on different wheelsets and different twists and turns of the rider. No measurement of the wobbliness, no measurement of the bending. Pretty disappointing after clicking the click-bait title.