Brilliant film, it was ahead of its time. I saw it years ago and thought it was excellent then and it just gets better every time I watch it. Alan Bennett’s screenplay is awesome.
I was 16 at the time when I discovered this biopic on the big screen in my hometown. Can you believe that the short-lived malfeasant from the first minutes of Indiana Jones (Alfred Molina) played in this masterpiece... and what about Gary Oldman!
Alan Bennett's screenplay is FANTASTIC. I particularly love the echoes. Wishes & predictions that actually come true & play out as real life 10 years later. Real life conversations that end of being replayed on stage. Kenneth telling Joe his life story, which then ends up being retold by Joe as his own. Peggy Ramsay's voiceover in the future showing up as real life past 5 minutes later. Life imitates art imitates life.
The is a tragic study of two people who remained together LONG after they should have. Joe's star was on the rise and Kenneth was just swept to the sidelines. This created both an imbalance which would fester into hostility and resentment and eventually the horrific conclusion of two lives being lost. Over time, Joe's casual indifference towards Kenneth was painfully clear and in turn Kenneth's increasingly desperate plight saw him being viewed by Joe and others as an afterthought. Joe was ready to move on and upwards and Kenneth was about to become yesterday's news. Kenneth's final act was unforgiveable and selfish. But as he built no life for himself or resources to be self-sufficient and independent, he instinctively knew that by ending Joe's life, he was effectively ending his own which he did........
Watched this at the screen on the green, then took a short walk to Noel road after. I was a bit obsessed with Orton at that time. Even went to see Yeah Yeah Noh, a Leicester indie band who had a song of the same name.
Of course, the dialogue between Orton and Halliwell, and then the monologue by Halliwell prior to Halliwell killing Orton is entirely speculative. I rather wish there'd have been none of that, and merely the slaying - Halliwell's increasing anger and paranoia were sufficiently evident by then.
There was something repulsive about Halliwell - the grand manner, the pretensions, the snobbery and the propriotorial way he treated Orton in the early part of the relationship. You wonder why they didn't split up in 1963 when they left prison. I doubt at that point Halliwell would have committed suicide, still less murdered Orton. It was like they spent the rest of their lives in the same cell.
They were both highly dysfunctional people. Orton clearly had problems with hypersexuality and of course he's now been widely condemned for having sex with a number of underage boys. Haliwell had a lot of mental health issues - he was due to be sectioned the following day. There was a history of problems in his family - his dad committed suicide. Orton and Haliwell's relationship was codependent and co-abusive. It's interesting to speculate what would have happened to Orton if he'd lived. I get the impression that his promiscuousness would have made it unlikely that he would have survived the AIDS epidemic, and if he had, he may very well have been ostracised and possibly convicted in later years for what he did with those 15 year old boys.
Because Kenneth was a predator who groomed Joe and Kenneth was nae going to let his prey go. Even if the means with which Kenneth thought to "keep" Joe was guilting him into staying together. Extremely dysfunctional with a side order of codependency all smothered under narcissism.
& of course all those conversations were real! As Umberto Eco says, what I'm accused of making up was real, & what was judged to be real, I made up. Neither Alan or Kenneth (Williams) ever saw of any of the real stuff, but they've both made a much greater mark culturally speaking.
Joe's death was such a waste. The idea that the man who supposedly loved him, ended him, sickens me. Joe had the world by the tail and this jealous loser took it away. Vile man.
I disagree. Joe was awful. His diaries show an immature, narcissistic sex addict with a growing interest in boys☹️. He was emotionally abusive to KH, who was clearly ill for a long time before the end. I'm no fan of KH, but Joe was equally toxic. Also, his work, whilst new and outrageous for the time is extremely juvenile and lacks substance. It was out to shock.
Brilliant film, it was ahead of its time. I saw it years ago and thought it was excellent then and it just gets better every time I watch it. Alan Bennett’s screenplay is awesome.
Alfred Molina is fucking above and beyond in this film. Fantastic performance.
The cast is mind-blowingly star-studded - thanks for posting this (to me previously) unknown gem !
I was 16 at the time when I discovered this biopic on the big screen in my hometown. Can you believe that the short-lived malfeasant from the first minutes of Indiana Jones (Alfred Molina) played in this masterpiece... and what about Gary Oldman!
Alan Bennett's screenplay is FANTASTIC.
I particularly love the echoes. Wishes & predictions that actually come true & play out as real life 10 years later. Real life conversations that end of being replayed on stage. Kenneth telling Joe his life story, which then ends up being retold by Joe as his own. Peggy Ramsay's voiceover in the future showing up as real life past 5 minutes later.
Life imitates art imitates life.
Alan Bennett is brilliant.
@@harrietlyall1991I love his writing.
Very good film, especially if you were around at that time and know the context. Thank you.
My goodness it's years since I first saw this film! Thank you...with all my favourites 😍
A treat to see this again. Many thanks.
Shout out to Stanley Myers for that plangent score that laces the film with tragedy throughout.
Did know it was him. The Deer Hunter guy. Awesome.
ITs it own Character, waiting to pounce.
The is a tragic study of two people who remained together LONG after they should have.
Joe's star was on the rise and Kenneth was just swept to the sidelines. This created both an imbalance which would fester into hostility and resentment and eventually the horrific conclusion of two lives being lost.
Over time, Joe's casual indifference towards Kenneth was painfully clear and in turn Kenneth's increasingly desperate plight saw him being viewed by Joe and others as an afterthought. Joe was ready to move on and upwards and Kenneth was about to become yesterday's news.
Kenneth's final act was unforgiveable and selfish. But as he built no life for himself or resources to be self-sufficient and independent, he instinctively knew that by ending Joe's life, he was effectively ending his own which he did........
I agree partly, but KH needed MH treatment and Joe was immature and emotionally abusive.
Watched this at the screen on the green, then took a short walk to Noel road after. I was a bit obsessed with Orton at that time. Even went to see Yeah Yeah Noh, a Leicester indie band who had a song of the same name.
I live near Noel Rd, and have read a lot of the available material. Fascinating, but not in a good way😣
Love the screenplay: Look out for Thames green!
1:02:11 All Gary Oldman had to do was that smile....and I fell madly in love with him ♥️😍
he did me in at 20:44
Tbh he looks like any ordinary lad off the street here. Ur into the fame not the looks
@@j0nnyismI think that he's probably pretty charismatic 😋
Of course, the dialogue between Orton and Halliwell, and then the monologue by Halliwell prior to Halliwell killing Orton is entirely speculative. I rather wish there'd have been none of that, and merely the slaying - Halliwell's increasing anger and paranoia were sufficiently evident by then.
... DOH! N.S.S
Great casting.
I saw it at first release and couldn't believe how great Oldman and Molina were for the roles.
@@sparagmos4748 I did too and was blown away by their performances.
This young looking man named Doc Ock
My friend's flat was used in the film, St Peter's Street, Islington. Look for the scene at 1:16:22.
Really that’s brilliant
It's a filthy rundown house now, but it's probably still worth a fortune😅
1:25:36 "These boys do not take drugs, never have taken drugs, never will take drugs" 🤣🤣
That's called wishful thinking or... delusion 🤣
Lennon and Epstein.
At least one of these boys take it.
There was something repulsive about Halliwell - the grand manner, the pretensions, the snobbery and the propriotorial way he treated Orton in the early part of the relationship. You wonder why they didn't split up in 1963 when they left prison. I doubt at that point Halliwell would have committed suicide, still less murdered Orton. It was like they spent the rest of their lives in the same cell.
I feel like everyone says, 'Why didn't Joe leave Kenneth?' but no one asks, 'Why didn't Kenneth leave Joe?'
They were both highly dysfunctional people. Orton clearly had problems with hypersexuality and of course he's now been widely condemned for having sex with a number of underage boys. Haliwell had a lot of mental health issues - he was due to be sectioned the following day. There was a history of problems in his family - his dad committed suicide. Orton and Haliwell's relationship was codependent and co-abusive. It's interesting to speculate what would have happened to Orton if he'd lived. I get the impression that his promiscuousness would have made it unlikely that he would have survived the AIDS epidemic, and if he had, he may very well have been ostracised and possibly convicted in later years for what he did with those 15 year old boys.
Well there must’ve been something about him for joe to spend 10 years with him
Because Kenneth was a predator who groomed Joe and Kenneth was nae going to let his prey go. Even if the means with which Kenneth thought to "keep" Joe was guilting him into staying together.
Extremely dysfunctional with a side order of codependency all smothered under narcissism.
@@lilmissrockchick4962 Agreed. Joe was a Ct!
I've seen it but intend to watch again. It's pretty good 👍
I really love this film ❤
& of course all those conversations were real! As Umberto Eco says, what I'm accused of making up was real, & what was judged to be real, I made up. Neither Alan or Kenneth (Williams) ever saw of any of the real stuff, but they've both made a much greater mark culturally speaking.
I watched it to see if the title was a play on words, and it definitely is.
No Brainer!
c'mon
@@NormanFinkelstein9863 The absence of brains would facilitate matters.
@@NormanFinkelstein9863 The absence of a brain would facilitate matters.
@@NormanFinkelstein9863 The absence of a brain would definitely facilitate matters.
REDGRAVE.
once you've watched all of his stuff, you can formulate your own script. It's all much of a muchness, but still amusing none the less.😅
It's very juvenile and clearly set out to shock, but I do love 'Entertaining Mr Sloane', mostly for Beryl Reid's performance and the setting.
Interesting, but, a bit too long
Joe's death was such a waste. The idea that the man who supposedly loved him, ended him, sickens me. Joe had the world by the tail and this jealous loser took it away. Vile man.
I disagree. Joe was awful. His diaries show an immature, narcissistic sex addict with a growing interest in boys☹️. He was emotionally abusive to KH, who was clearly ill for a long time before the end.
I'm no fan of KH, but Joe was equally toxic.
Also, his work, whilst new and outrageous for the time is extremely juvenile and lacks substance. It was out to shock.
A little half-timbered motor car.... how English.
I remember them
Not that long ago either! Moggies went on for ever and ever.
Cool ❤ 😎 Sogar mit Untertitel.
Dr. Sturgis!!! no way
I didn't understand most stuff like the context but it was fine I guess
._.
I hope by now you have googled Joe Orton's biography, and what was going on in those years in the UK.
Wikipedia is a great start.
Perv film.
Short for perfect !
This is history before HIV.
.... OOOH! DING DONG....
Are you Derek Jarman’s love-child?
It's an interesting story, but Joe was a disgusting man, and KH only slightly less.