The Quest for England: Why So Many Churches?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 88

  • @TheRamblingsofBry
    @TheRamblingsofBry 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Funny that the biggest and most used building you showed us, was the huge car park. People now would rather shop than go to church. I actually don't know a single person who goes to church regularly, it really is a thing of the past. Churches [on the whole] sit empty, they could turn them into homeless shelters.

    • @cecilyerker
      @cecilyerker 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The Ramblings of Bry That would be a return to their historical use, it was the central community center in a village where the poor would be ministered to. But the interior of most churches isn’t suited to housing people anyway.

    • @michaelwhite8031
      @michaelwhite8031 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I would not be against them turning some of these buildings into homeless centres. I think Christ would have approved.

    • @TheRamblingsofBry
      @TheRamblingsofBry 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@cecilyerker They could easily be changed, I know of a church that is now someones [large] home.

    • @MrGreatplum
      @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The Ramblings of Bry - the church that I attend (the very middle of the road Anglican Church of St Matthew in Redhill) has a congregation of c. 150, a choir, organ, servers etc etc. It has a food bank that the use of has increased year on year sadly; the hall houses homeless on a Sunday night (it is one of seven churches in redhill that open up a different night of the week.)
      It has services during the week, lunchtime concerts on a Thursday etc etc.
      People often think that churches are closed for 6 days of the week but that is (usually) not the case.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's an interesting idea. Some churches allow overnight stays, I gather.

  • @WiltshireMan
    @WiltshireMan 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Good to see you out filming in the rain Richard... Worshipping the weather:) They were a pious back then and probably deeply entrenched in tradition and routine and why so many churches and nominations? Perhaps they couldn't get on with each other!
    O loving brethren!

  • @jwharvell
    @jwharvell 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    As someone who is educated and a churchgoer, I find the decline in church attendance in England sad. It's not just England though Europe has seen churches close over the last 50-80 years at an alarming rate. It alarms me on two fronts; first as a Christian and also as a lover of history. There are so many things lost to time in documents left in unused churches that time or people destroyed. A church that was boarded up in France was burned by an arsonist and several hundred years of records of marriages, births, and deaths for a town were lost because many of the documents were still being stored in the church.
    In America, we still look back to brilliant Christians from England like Adam Clarke, Charles Spurgeon, and C.S. Lewis to name a few when we read and study scripture not to mention the King James Version Bible. Now, I believe C.S. Lewis is sadly more known for fiction in England than his BBC Lectures or books like Mere Christianity. Sad to say this video is the only one you ever made that saddened me. The Salvation Army here still operates much like it was founded in England.
    In your quest for England maybe looking into why the English who settled foreign lands in the past saw the Christian religion as one of it's best exports. The past is what made England what it is today.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I am sorry it made you sad - I am saddened every day by the modern destruction of our brilliant culture and way of life.

    • @andrewrcmadwilkinson6999
      @andrewrcmadwilkinson6999 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      WELL, YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELVES TO BLAME IRELAND, CRUSADES, AND BISHOP BALL.
      BUT GOD IS INFINITELY MORE STRONGER THAN THE DEVIL

    • @jensendamon2408
      @jensendamon2408 3 ปีที่แล้ว

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      I was stupid lost my login password. I love any help you can give me

    • @kaysonrandy9361
      @kaysonrandy9361 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Jensen Damon instablaster ;)

    • @jensendamon2408
      @jensendamon2408 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Kayson Randy i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
      Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.

  • @MrGreatplum
    @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Worthing is an interesting place for churches - there are still over 50 places of worship in the town (c. 110,000). As you rightly say before 1812, the only church was the medieval one at Beoadwater. As the population grew, St Paul’s (now a community centre) was built as a chapel of ease and then other churches and denominations set up. Even within Anglicanism you get differences so there are churches such as st Andrew’s which was built due to the Oxford movement and Anglo-Catholicism in the 1880s. There’s even a tin tabernacle still in use - St. Peter’s in High Salvington which maybe worth a visit!

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It seems odd to someone who doesn't believe in that the small differences in how you worship warrant a whole expensive church.

    • @MrGreatplum
      @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Richard Vobes - it still happens today but perhaps to a lesser degree - people forget it’s just a different way of looking at the same thing - it’s created wars!

  • @MrGreatplum
    @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    A Coptic orthodox is a Greek Orthodox Church (the eastern version of Christianity if you like); there was a great schism of Christianity that was exacerbated with the split of The Roman Empire and so the differences between the patriarchs of Rome (the Pope) and Constantinople grew..

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks for that Mattew.

    • @Hellyers
      @Hellyers 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Its not Greek Orthodix, its Egyptian Orthodox. The word Coptic basically means Egyptian. The Coptics split from the main church about 500 years prior to the rest of the Orthodox community. Fascinating people with an incredibly rich church history. They have their own Pope and everything.

    • @MrGreatplum
      @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hellyers - apologies - of course you are right. Too early in the morning for me!

  • @mickyjb2003
    @mickyjb2003 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    One of the things that is interesting is they all look so solid.Great vlog thank you.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      They do look solid. Must have cost a fortune.

  • @Red_____________
    @Red_____________ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Beautiful churches 👍🏻

  • @tonyhayes-piuk
    @tonyhayes-piuk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What an interesting debate Richard. You are of course correct, the 19th century saw a huge increase in the number of churches. In the UK, between 1800 and 1872; 3204 new churches had been built and 925 had been entirely rebuilt due to a growing population and competition from other faiths. The total number of churches in 1872 was 7892. Where I live, we have three in eyeshot, and we are rural here. The local vicar now looks after all three of these churches, one being the medieval Great Budworth - (the recent BBC HG Wells three-part series War of the Worlds was filmed there). With some funerals these days not even having a church service (unheard of just a few decades ago) and marriages almost anywhere, how much longer they will survive in their current form is anyone's guess. You can begin to see the numbers of the congregations falling 1914 onwards, WW1 had people questioning for the first time, and it's here you start to see numbers falling. Faiths rightly saying how bad wars are, we all agree with that, but in the next breath blessing a tank, will leave a bitter taste in the mouth of a parent, wife, son and daughter who have lost a loved one and don't even have the body to bury.

  • @ramibu239
    @ramibu239 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well you nailed it - you asked why so many & I said it had to be diff denominations. You ended up answering your own question.😆 Coptic because of the Orthodox name attached to it I wondered if it was something like Greek Orthodox? It is similar in the sense that Coptic though means the language of the Copts, which represents the final stage of ancient Egyptians (instead of the Greek language - yes, of coarse I Googled that!😅). They are also affiliated w/ the Catholic Church. Shocking to see you had one there as Wikipedia said Coptic was considered a dead language & that there were only about 300 people worldwide that spoke the language.

  • @MrGreatplum
    @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    There is of course the massive population growth that coincided with the industrial revolution, pious Victorians and wealthy landowners who wanted to make a statement! Prior to the 1840s, Reigate had just one church, St Mary’s (which we have visited of course!). With the arrival of the railways and growth of both Reigate and redhill, 4 new churches were commissioned in the mid to late 19th century - named after the apostles - St Matthew’s, Redhill, St Mark’s North Reigate, St Luke’s South Park, and St John’s Earlswood. A further church was built (st Phillips) for the servants of those who worshiped at St Marks. Holy Trinity was built in Edwardian times by people who disagreed with St Matthew’s churchmanship! Finally, in the 1950s st Peters was built on my estate; this is the only one of those churches that has closed.
    And this is not taking into account the myriad different denominations of ‘non conformists’ etc - catholic’s, Methodists, Baptists of different types, quakers, Salvation Army, brethren etc etc!

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      A lot of work building the churches for workman, so that was good.

    • @MrGreatplum
      @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Richard Vobes - and they are fine churches too as well! Hope to show you St John’s later this year.

    • @MrGreatplum
      @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Michael Angel - don’t talk such nonsense

    • @michaelwhite8031
      @michaelwhite8031 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrGreatplum you wait and see. Baroness Sloss said England is no longer a Christian country in the Wolf report. You can read it.

    • @michaelwhite8031
      @michaelwhite8031 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Joeblogs999 Lol !

  • @cecilyerker
    @cecilyerker 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    We have almost as many churches in Saint Louis, Missouri, from all different time periods. The first ones were built by French Catholics.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Oh, interesting.

    • @cecilyerker
      @cecilyerker 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Richard Vobes The good thing is that many of the Catholic churches are still very active parishes with young families. We have many different Christian denominations coexisting, sometimes in the same neighborhood! Also lots of Jewish temples and a large Orthodox Jewish population. Plus weird fringe stuff like the Scientologists and Seventh Day Adventist’s and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Unitarian Universalists. As well as churches in ethnic neighborhoods that perform services in Croatian, Chinese, Spanish, Korean, and Greek. A few churches will do a full Latin mass once a week as well! I think we do very well at respecting each other’s religious freedom.

  • @johnhorne1685
    @johnhorne1685 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    As I approach 90 I remember the thirties All the shops were shut on Sundays I seem to remember pubs had shorter hours open No sports, that, was for the day preceding. There was the radio that finished broadcasting at 10 0r 11 but had plenty of church services to listen too. If you went out for a walk you could walk down the high street to look in the shops and you might see a few others doing the same. sun day was a day of rest and we spent most of the day sitting around after going to Church and having a doze Even gardening was frowned on as it involved work

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you for that long look back perspective. Fascinating life you have led, and lives you have witnessed.

  • @dastardlydianne5657
    @dastardlydianne5657 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    In the. Medieval world the church had an immense involvement in people's lives and their regulation. The industrial revolution was the time when a lot more challenging ideas affected the established church. There was a rise in non conformist religion and during the 19th Century, the Church of England hit back by building new churches of its own. My great grandparents were married in such a one in Sheffield in 1855. As an historian "by trade" all your church videos intrigue me and certainly, this question of why there are so many "newish" churches in one small area is very interesting because it relates to this period of social change in British history. Thanks for taking us out in the rain, as it was an intriguing walk.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      So pleased it made sense and thanks for the comments and extra history.

  • @paulpj5988
    @paulpj5988 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video Richard. I think that prior to 1837 all the records were kept at the churches then at national archives local councils not 100%. I noticed this when looking up some ancestry. all veried churches there in a small area. we had lots like thatt back in clapham london. A spot of J walking thrown in there there haha. Thanks

  • @Englishman-Abroad
    @Englishman-Abroad 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Woolly hat fella. You looked cold!

  • @FrancescoBellringer
    @FrancescoBellringer 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    No bellringing at Christ Church or Broadwater :(. The only ringing bells in worthing are at Goring, Angmering, Heene, W Tarring

  • @frankmyers1257
    @frankmyers1257 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting post --- and conversation. I live in a small town (some 4,000 souls) in the middle of the U.S. with 20 churches offering a dizzying array of theological perspectives but all struggling. Three of our buildings are grand, some hideous and the balance modest. The population shift from rural to urban is a factor in decline here as is the fact a majority of young people raised in church does not attend once educated and having flown the nest. I attend (the U.S. equivalent of Anglican --- Episcopal) because I enjoy the liturgy, the music, the tradition and the community, despite not being a believer. It pains me to see church buildings of architectural and historic significance fall by the wayside, a major concern in England, too, but I must say I don't miss the angst and strife of religious orthodoxy.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you for that perspective.

  • @lindakane7771
    @lindakane7771 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Interesting. Battling the rain, Worthing doesn't look at its best in such weather and as for the traffic noise you were rarher up against it!
    Sadly St Paul's (clised as a church in 1996) is very much in danger due to lack of appropriate funding to keep it standing and a going concern. Christ Church known as the Fishermans Church

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the extra info, Linda.

  • @oliverjh1281
    @oliverjh1281 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video Richard nice to see your home town . Sad to see the decline in church going and religion in general people only tend to turn to it in times of trouble these days , I visited several churches in California where they make a great effort to encourage younger people in either by the message or the music and it seems to work . As for Darwin as it was once pointed out to me Darwin s theory of evolution is just that a Theory , make of that what you will .

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I believe all science is theory, there to be disproved.

  • @Horizon344
    @Horizon344 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Late Victorian/Edwardian church building mania, I think it had something to do with the height of the Empire, & the shift of the English from the countryside into the towns off the back of the Industrial Revolution, with a consequence that you had a more concentrated population mass in town & cities with more money in its pockets to spend, including a rapidly expanding middle class, & some of that new wealth expressed itself with religiosity, & socially - the church at that time being a bastion of social class status. Little could they have imagined within 2 generations the English would abandon religion, & all these churches would be empty monuments to the society that put them up, imagining when they were doing it they would last for a thousand years.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      How things change so swiftly.

  • @welshmanjasonpatrick8607
    @welshmanjasonpatrick8607 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Like churches my town got 15 churchs my town Llandudno we got st tudno on great orme look over irish sea

  • @Stringtrees
    @Stringtrees 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    It is sad to see churches coming to the end of their intended purpose but at the same time I am not at all religious and nor, it seems, are many of my compatriots. I hope, though, that Churches remain standing as they are a piece of history and were once a focal point of the folks living in the area.

  • @susanolson3611
    @susanolson3611 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There are those (including myself) that wonder if the dramatic shrinking of the churches is the "Great Apostasy" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2. It says that many will fall away from the faith (great apostasy) just before the antichrist is revealed, the tribulation happens and then the return of Christ.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Golly.

    • @michaelwhite8031
      @michaelwhite8031 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @Terry White don't say anything about something you have not studied. People say they have read it but have never studied it.

  • @pastorflaps6819
    @pastorflaps6819 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    In the middle Victorian period to the early Edwardian the church all faiths was apart of a very profitable tax return system on all building works repairs etc add to that people who donated to the church over a period could get a very profitable return on church owned properties for investment purposes most churches where not particularly well attended as we would believe but would have to attract new people constantly with some wonderful attractions such as free meals musical afternoons and my favourite performing animals who could in the words of the advertisement sing the praises of the lord's work (hope that makes sense as I have lost my glasses again)

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes makes sense - interesting points. Thanks.

  • @10wanderer
    @10wanderer 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Why many Churches ? the folk in Worthing must be sinfull

  • @MrGreatplum
    @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Gosh, a lot to discuss with this video (an excellent one by the way) - I’ll have to split up my posts!
    Charles Darwin was born a Unitarian (a non conformist church that does not believe in the trinity) and started to train to be an Anglican priest. He actually stated later on in his life: ‘I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. - I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind"
    The ‘church’ (and by that I mean most denominations by this time and not just Anglican) would have seen his thoughts as potentially heretical as going against the literal interpretation of the bible - however, most churches today do not believe the world was created in 7 days etc but that Genesis and the story of creation is just that, a story to help explain how the world was created.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      A BBC Radio 4 programme recently said that the last paragraph in The Origin of the Species, Darwin tried to cover his back, claiming that all his discoveries were in fact the work of God.
      Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted
      object of which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of
      the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of
      life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a
      few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on
      according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning
      endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are
      being, evolved.

    • @MrGreatplum
      @MrGreatplum 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Richard Vobes - he was a clever man - he must have anticipated the backlash!

  • @2anthro
    @2anthro 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Declining church attendance: perhaps its because people have more control over their lives now, a feeling of empowerment.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      That's an interesting point.

  • @martinkavanagh196
    @martinkavanagh196 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Was it a priest who said "I love the poorly educated"? - I always thought that churches were rather built with money ..

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      These are big churches so they must have had a lot of money!

    • @cecilyerker
      @cecilyerker 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Reflections of past prosperity and population growth.

  • @KeynshamBoy
    @KeynshamBoy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    'Amount of churches' - surely it should be 'Number of churches' ?

    • @johnfoster7996
      @johnfoster7996 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Surely? Does it really matter, ‘amount’ is as clearly understood as ‘number’. There were a lot of churches because, in their day, they were the main channels of control. These days TV and the internet have taken over the purposes for which ‘The Church’ existed.

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      What do you mean?

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, and social media, the new religion.

    • @KeynshamBoy
      @KeynshamBoy 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      'Amount of' is used for 'continuous' items such as water, sand or grains of wheat, which you would never dream of counting individually. 'Number of' is used for discrete items which can easily be counted, such as churches, people, trains, etc. Hope this helps? I notice that a lot of people use the two different words without distinction these days, so you are in company ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dictionary_of_Modern_English_Usage mat be of interest? By the way, I do like and appreciate your videos!

  • @georgetimperley8906
    @georgetimperley8906 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's is fascinating how theres so many churches realy, and now people do t use them. But everywhere you go there is one. Great video 👍

  • @francisstack28
    @francisstack28 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You passed right by a huge old tree beside the church of the cocktail bar, that the Lovely Julia wouldn't have missed! Ranting about Global Warming you missed nature, heritage and common sence!

    • @RichardVobes
      @RichardVobes  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      The video on this occasion wasn't about nature and trees.