Since it’s been a little over a year since posting this video, I’d like to give my current thoughts on the game and the video. I still stand by what I said in the video, I just wish I could have presented it a bit better. Watching it now, If I could go back and change a few things, I’d definitely go more in depth on the arguments given against FFII. I feel like I did a poor job giving the common critiques of the game a full explanation so that everyone knows exactly where they’re coming from and understands their argument completely before going into my defense. There were times in the video I’d present their arguments at surface level and then move on without going into more detail. Their arguments are logical and valid, and I wish I could go back and present them that way, even if I think the other side of the argument can be just as logical and valid. For example, the critique of needing to take damage in order to increase your HP wasn’t explained at all before moving on to why I disagree with it (21:52). This would have also avoided moments in the video where I inadvertently presented an argument as if they were saying one thing when they meant something else. One thing I do want to address is how most of the complaints I talk about in the video are mainly from the original Famicom version of the game and that those arguments don’t apply to the later versions of the game (GBA/PSP). I would agree with this if most reviews didn’t treat every version of the game as if they were the same. The most common being the need to attack yourself in order to succeed in the game. Some have pointed out that that criticism is more accurate in the Famicom version of the game since it’s much more difficult and unfair. Even though later versions of the game balanced out the difficulty heavily, it’s still present in most reviews for the GBA and PSP versions of the game. Every point I brought up in the video was found in reviews for all versions of the game. If there’s one thing I want people to take away from the video it’s an understanding of the other point of view, on how the game can still be enjoyed even with its weaknesses. As I said at the beginning of the video, this video is more about trying to help people understand how and why someone could find this game enjoyable (4:06) rather than trying to convince those people that FFII isn’t a bad game because trying to change someone’s mind on anything is almost always a fruitless effort. I still think the game has more strengths than weaknesses though, hence why I don’t think it’s a bad game. Thank you for your comments and your kind words, it means a lot to me. Even if we disagree, I appreciate taking the time to watch such a long video.
"I’d definitely go more in depth on the arguments given against FFII. I feel like I did a poor job giving the common critiques of the game a full explanation so that everyone knows exactly where they’re coming from" I mean, it's been beaten to death why FFII is considered bad. Stating the already known reasons for its weaknesses would be kinda redundant. I'd imagine everyone watching this video would know so. It's good to see a video that DOES go over more of FFII other than 'BRoKeN lEvLlInG sYstAM"
One of the best feelings I had as a young gamer was discovering that dangerous area just to the north of the start of the game that you definitely aren’t supposed to go to. You get one-shot by everything. Except there are turtle enemies who are very weak to ice... So I leveled up ice a couple of levels, and with some trial and error I was able to start taking out these turtles for some insanely good item drops. I felt so powerful that I had beat enemies I was never supposed to and been rewarded with rare items. That feeling will always stick with me, because I figured it out and made it work.
@@soronexle2681 well it's more like he was the director after Sakaguchi stepped down from director. his name is Akitoshi Kawazu, and he was originally a designer on the game, as well as a designer for Final Fantasy I. Another designer was Koichi Ishii, the creative director for most of the Mana games, minus Trials of Mana
Unfortunately for Kawazu, his darling SaGa games never amount to be that much fun either, unless grinding, guesswork, and arbitrary chance are your JRPG kinks.
Excerpt from a NES version guide: "DO NOT ATTACK YOUR OWN PARTY MEMBERS While it isn't obvious, EVA (evasion) is the utmost important stat in the game. If EVA is low, the final dungeon becomes nightmare as many enemies there deals MHP ratio damage, dangerous debuff attacks, or insta-kill if it connects. EVA won't grow if party member attacks each other, and more the HP and VIT the characters have, it seems, the harder it gets for EVA to grow."
The final dungeon and the evasion mechanic is hilarious. The game gives you all this super heavy, super strong genji armor, but the problem is that defense just subtracts from the amount of damage, and armor drops your evasion like a rock. The enemies in the final cave will do say 300 damage an attack. If you have all the super heavy genji equip, the armor will absorb, say, 150 damage an attack - but the armor drops your evasion by 150%. So with genji armor, the monsters will do ~ 150 dmg x 16 attacks = 2400 damage per attack. Running naked through the dungeon, monsters will do about 300 dmg x 1~2 attacks = 300~600 damage per attack. Having the armor equipped multiplies the incoming damage by 4x instead - even if you have relatively low evasion, just streaking through the last dungeon works well enough. It is possible to grind evasion (e.g. dual wielding shields and letting enemies wail on you), but frankly just streaking through the final dungeon will be good enough for any normal player. Grinding by hitting your own characters doesn't actually hurts you, but you can't beat the game just by doing that, you have to understand the system at least a little to finish the game.
@@veritronHonnestly attacking yourself is truly an overrated exploit, all it does is increase your HP and Stamina faster, but why do that when you can focus on increasing your Shield LV, and subsequently your Evasion to nullify most of the damage you receive ? On top of the other benefit Evasion gives, like acting first during the turn or Fleeing more reliably, if you just want to rush through the areas and/or the ennemy or of Low Rank and aren't worth fighting.
Anyone attacking themselves to raise HP is being sub optimal. You only need to finish a battle with less HP than you statred with, so it's better to wait until you have Minwu and have him use "Swap" on each member to ensure that you don't accidently kill your party members, and so you don't waste time waiting for the enemies to attack each member.
Or just play the game normally, like seriously the encounter rate is so stupidly high in this game, if you do most of the battle your main 3 will be extremely overlevel without any extra grinding needed or any of these dumb tricks people use.
The BEST advice I was ever given about this game, over the many years of playing it, was “if they’re in the front row, put a damn shield on.” You don’t have to grind HP if you can’t get hit to begin with. Love the video 👍
Oh, wow, someone actually going to bat for FFII!? Never thought I'd see the day! It's not my absolute favourite of the series (that honour goes to FFXI), but it's certainly up there, and it's definitely the best loose adaptation of _Labyrinth_ ever made! (Plus, if you know how, the game's supposedly brutal difficulty can be snapped like a twig with just a little effort early on.)
Only way I know how to snap the brutal difficulty is to cheese the exp system by attacking and canceling, or by attacking own party members to raise HP. Is there a different way?
@@acidwizard6528 - Indeed there is, and it's so much simpler. And all you need… is Minwu. Once he joins the party, start levelling the Teleport spell by using it to leave Altair, then immediately re-enter (and also use the Cure spell to restore the massive chunks of HP it somehow costs, with nights at the inn to restore MP when necessary). Then, once it reaches about level 8, go to Fynn, save outside, and get in a fight with a Captain. Have Minwu cast Teleport and, provided the Captain doesn't slaughter him first, it should be an instant kill. Once you have this pattern down, the Captains should start dropping powerful equipment like Gold Armour, Flame Bows, and most importantly, the Toad Tome. Have Maria (or whoever you want) learn Toad and start using it against the Captains to level it quickly, because it's what you'll be using in the same way as Teleport after Minwu leaves. With your new equipment, you'll soon be able to survive the Captains' attacks, leading to quick HP boosts, with the Toads and Teleports bringing in steady MP increases. Finally, once you have Toad and Teleport to Lv. 16, you've essentially won the game, because it's an instant kill in gameplay terms, and it works on just about every enemy in the game (even the final boss in the Famicom version!)
@@acidwizard6528 You can snap the brutal difficulty by using your brain and training your party in the old hard way, duh. I beat this game before and back then I didn't know about spell cancel trick or rising stats by attacking friends. When you got Blood Sword, don't sell it. Also, don't travel too south from Altair or the game will count it as Mysidia (Bomb, Ghost, Vampirette etc)
@@YellowMage or you can wander around the north of Fynn and hope to fight many Warlocks there. They are pain in the ass, but if you beat them, you can get Berserk tome and Mage's Staff. Equipped Minwu with Mage's Staff and cast Berserk, and he will be the strongest ass kicker in your party. Minwu actually one-shot Sergeant and Spiketoise in my gameplay.
Having experimented with the leveling system in the GBA version, I actually determined that a lot of the most repeated claims about the system are lacking in detail and explanation. For example, the reason why attacking yourself in front of weaker enemies seems to work so well is because part of the leveling system is designed to offer higher rewards for beating enemies that are stronger than you, while repeatedly one-shotting weaker enemies is likely to give you little to nothing. As such, attempting to level against weaker enemies requires the player to drag out the battle to get even a little experience, since you can overcome the issue of the enemies being weak by increasing the number of times an action is repeated. I personally found the system to be highly engaging. In fact, in my case I'd get so invested in leveling one stat or another that I'd actually avoid advancing the story for a while. I enjoyed experimenting to figure out what was needed to level certain stats or skills. For example, I learned that it's almost impossible to level agility without a shield, or that having only some characters attack while others used support abilities can often level them faster, even if you alternate the roles each battle. Also, in regards to magic obtained later in the game, the rate at which magic levels is based on the level of the spell and the "rank" of the enemy party. A level 1 spell will actually grow faster later in the game than it does earlier. If anything in fact, the fastest way to level a spell of any level is to find the strongest enemies you can find and cast the spell once per battle. So long as the enemies are ranked higher than the spell level, it'll grow faster the greater the difference is.
The biggest problem is the game doesn't explain any of this. If the system was more transparent it'd probably be regarded better. There's actually some cool ideas in there, such as the first cast of a specific spell in a battle gives more spell XP, with diminishing returns for each subsequent cast. The game actively makes boring, grindy stuff less worthwhile.
@@rdrrr I suppose more of an explanation could have helped, mostly in the relation between stats and the specific conditions of experience. I can also imagine the original versions stat reducing system being a pain. In hindsight though I do wish they'd preserved more of the statistical influences of the various weapon types (staffs influencing spirit perhaps?), since as is weapons have little influence on character customization.
@@elliotlevy8610 Agree. I'm always a fan of weapons being more than just blocks of stats. FF2's big problem IMO is that spells level too slowly. They all just give the same experience per cast. I'd probably have niche spells like Basuna and Aura give far more experience per cast than stuff you'll cast all the time like Fire and Cure.
@@GiordanDiodato True, it's not unusual for games from that era to be obtuse as fuck. FF2 just has mechanics that are harder to intuitively grasp so it's more of a problem
What everybody fails to mention too, is that Magic Tomes aren't just for learning new spells. They can also be used as one time Level 8 cast of that ability. If you don't want to spend hours grinding out a spell, don't do it. Just buy a bunch of tomes of that spell and you'll be just fine.
@@Honest_Mids_Masher no problem, it's really frustrating hearing about people having issues with how magic works in this game when a readily available solution exists.
@@EnbyLite I honestly have no issues with the magic system while I do run out of MP quickly throughout the dungeons I always stock up on elixirs anyways but a way to access boosted up magic is awesome
@@The_Gallowglass Yeah I realized just how good osmose was because I was building Leon like how he is in the Dissidia mobile game once I realized osmose made ethers pointless I just gave that to everyone.
It amuses me that this game gets such a bad wrap for the "hit characters to increase power" playstyle but, as far as I know, no one complains about the same strategy being used in Final Fantasy Tactics which uses the same exact strategy of "keep one enemy alive and then punch your team members until you think you've leveled enough".
people have double standards lol much like Chrono Trigger having the same must use characters of elemental weaknesses (lol color coded beasts better use Marle and Lucca, let alone permanent haste for Marle makes Magus a cakewalk, and Lavos messes with you, so you need haste helms as you won't have time to cast on everyone) that Final Fantasy 3 does with the jobs. th-cam.com/video/cDBBlvf2oME/w-d-xo.html 12:07 got it as you want to cast group magic to buff your spell and your party hp at once. I made a buncha guides let alone go to mysidia early to spam holy (before equipment like blood sword or soul of rebirth minwu ultima breaks it lol not in pixel remaster). It's inept and funny, just like throw stone in FFT, though this vid sucks as it's the worst for a normal perspective. Let alone undermines itself 14:00 by using normal attacks that target 1 person nearly killing them, as opposed to wimpy area of effect spells that hit the party at once to give hp buffs with minimal risk while buffing the spell (which takes forever, let alone you cast cure in battle to increase spirit).
Difference is two fold, one, you never have to do that in tactics (as a perception whether or nit reality in 2) and, there is effectively ONE thing to level in tactics, jp, (levels otherwise are normal).....it isn't hard to spread some love around jp, but to get the final magic in 2 to be worth it, takes an epic grind (speaking as someone who not only COMPLETED the x sphere grid.....twice...complelty on every character.....I freaking erased almost every spehere and made a rainbow pattern of it......twice (ps4/switch))....with max 99999 hp
Ones balanced and the other isn’t, it’s not a double standard. There are plenty of games that have the same mechanics but one does it significantly better than the other
@@MilkIsASauceTV FF fans will literally say fucking anything to make FF2 look bad. There's literally a spot in FFT where people get stuck to the point they consider their game softlocked. lmfao Meanwhile you can pretty much coast through FF2 from start to finish with no grinding at all. But FF2 is imbalanced? All right.
@@neonfatum I’ll give you that Belias is pretty unbalanced, but calling him a soft lock isn’t 100% true. He’s not impossible to beat, it’s just a really tough fight. People’s issue with the “soft lock” part is that they only save in 1 save file before this fight. It sucks that that happens, and obviously I wouldn’t say someone was stupid for doing this. But this is not the first video game in history to softlock someone because they saved at an in opportune location. I have gotten myself out of that situation before, it took some experimenting but I was able to strategize & figure it out. I really don’t like II, but I’ll give it this: it does not have a softlock like this. I love Tactics because of its fucking amazing gameplay systems, and obviously Belias is a huge flaw that needs to be corrected should we ever get another release of this game.
Really? Mine's b****slapping the Final Emperor with a punch attack because fists can become pretty broken... so much so, that if you max them out, they do more damage than weapons...🤣 But yeah, anytime I get it more than 1 or 2 stat gains in a battle, it's a good time.
Some very good points raised here. The one thing that sticks out to me is the argument of "why do x if y is more effective?" Having options available that might not be the most optimal, but still viable, is part of the role playing experience in my book. I've started II a couple times but never got around to finishing it. Definitely need to address that!
it's ironic. Some of these same people *cough* Projared *cough* hate Final Fantasy XIII for completely the opposite reason they hate FFII, which is lack of character customization (which it does have, but only towards the end of the game).
"Players will optimize the fun out of a game" - Soren Johnson This quote is more or less true depending on the game and the players it attracts. In the famously easy Kirby series balance barely matters in the first place, but in 4X strategy games (like the Civilization series that Soren worked on) it ABSOLUTELY needs to be accounted for so one "most optimal" strategy doesn't overshadow the rest of the game.
Saying that FF2 is bad because it gives you the option to exploit it is like saying the metro is bad because you have the option to throw yourself under the train
This was my first final fantasy experience. As a kid I learned I could cheese the leveling system but otherwise I found the story enriching, music very riveting, and combat system endearing. It is truly at its core final fantasy
The only thing I wish the game kept was if you're dual wielding and kill an enemy with the first hit, you'd hit another enemy. They took that out and both your weapons hit the same enemy, even if the first hit would kill it. That and it would have been cool if Leila had steal, Ricard had jump, and Leon had a dark Knight ability. :D
Late to the party, but I'm glad someone's speaking up for the game. The freedom of leveling is probably why I've played it so much to see how broken I could be within the first 3 hours.
The GBA version of the game is pretty damn good. I've played it a long time ago on my original GBA back when it came out and didn't like it but now I'm REALLY enjoying myself. The story isn't half bad (for the time the game was made) and the combat system is actually pretty enjoyable. You have to use a different mindset than with the other FF games tho.
The story, if you ask me, was way better than FF I, and maybe, also FF3 (being honest, the orfans weren't very expresive, the 3ds version, didn't improve that and the Crystal Tower was the worst part of the game). FF2, it's a very niche game, that you need to have a very open mindset to love it (so, it's not for everyone). Curious, because, I was capable to finnish FF2, but not FF7 that with all his clunky minigames made me to ragequit the game before the famous death of Aeris (at this moment, I didn't care anymore) Still, FF2 it's not in my top, that place belongs to FF4, maybe 6 too.
Agree, of the NES titles this one has the best story, but IMO it has the worst music. The droning, dour scores just get to repetitive and annoying especially on the dreadnought. Also agree with 4 and 6 being top tier. This game has some good, but it it has far more bad.@@Frendlu
Just became a fan of this game with the pixel remaster release. I really liked it and while I understand a lot of the QoL and balance issues have massively improved the experience, people are still shitting on this version and I'm bewildered because it's awesome as hell. Anyway definitely check it out if you haven't. The music, graphics, QoL features all make it so good!
That leveling system was ultimately mastered in the SaGa Frontier games, and honestly it's fine in the remakes of FFII. Now, the original on the NES, that was broken as hell. Real bad programming problems, so I understand the negative reaction that faced. But the rereleases from the PS1 onward? It's fine. I feel like a lot of the hate for FFII is recycled from the NES version. They attach a lot of the NES issues to the remake even when they're not really there anymore, or at least not as much of an issue. They were told what to expect and reacted as the were told.
@@theflashgordon193 It was very poorly balanced. Not just in how long it took for stats to rise from enemies attacking you and not using the self-harm exploit, but stats that opposed the one you were raising would decrease. So if your strength increased by one, there was a (high) chance INT would decrease.
Bollocks. the NES version is fine. You need to understand how the stats/mechanics work. Look up gamecorner guides and read the mechanics breakdown of the game there. The "exploits" you mentioned are not intrusive in your gameplay at all, and are there if you want to use them. You don't have to, just like the video says. The NES version is much harder, and my only complaint of it are the long dungeons without the option to save. Getting wiped by a boss can be frustrating, as you have to do the entire dungeon again, but this is a moot point since no NES FF had in-dungeon savepoints anyway so it just comes with the territory. FF2 is challenging, nintendo-hard RPG with a huge payoff once your party grows into the roles you assigned them at the beginning of the game. If a monster is kicking your ass with physical attacks, the ancient sword works wonders, as you can inflict the CURSE status on almost anything.
Thanks for watching! I found a few positive reviews of the game while researching, most of them are buried in the search results unfortunately. I'm sure there are more but these two videos are what come to mind. th-cam.com/video/KdgfLRQOQxU/w-d-xo.html - Review Roulette: Final Fantasy 2 th-cam.com/video/BOG814YVovU/w-d-xo.html - Final Fantasy II Reflection (Buzz Review) There are also a few unbiased reviews that highlight both strengths and weaknesses, like Xygor Gaming and Resonant Arc's reviews.
ff2 is one of my favorite rpgs. I do see it for its flaws too, but I'm doing a run with no hitting yourself grinding. normal grinding is still on the table
1:18 “While other companies would expand on the mechanics of the first title.....” Not in the NES days. Back then, the part 2 of a lot of games were hugely different than their initial game and went back to the style of the first game when they made a part 3. Final Fantasy II, Super Mario Bros. 2, Zelda 2, Castlevania 2 to name a few. I think it was a thing back then to try and make a completely different game with the second iteration but a lot of these companies realized that instead of making something completely new, they should focus on making the first one better and more refined. An interesting and confusing era for video games.
Probably another reason why companies do that is to play it safe, since developing is harder these days and making a completely new idea is more risky for them. I kinda miss the experimental era but at the same time at least I know what I’m getting
Technically super mario bros 2 did expand on its original design. The real super mario bros 2 is the lost levels. In north America we technically got a reskin of doki doki panic
I finished the game 2 times before even knowing i could break the game attacking myself. The game is not grindy at all. It's the general opinion that people run with without even experiencing the game themselves.
This was one of my first final fantasy games when I was in middle school, I loved playing it! I didn't know about all the exploits or anything that people say to criticize it so I cant really recognize it as major talking point if people could play the entire game without even knowing about it. This was also before there was online game shops built into the consoles, so I didn't have preset expectations. I miss that period of time of being able to go into an experience completely fresh with little to no idea of what to expect and end up loving the experience at the end
I love FF2. I find that the unique leveling system makes it one of the most replayable games out there. I can restart the game and make completely different builds for each of the characters. Even make some of the most memey builds like a double shield Guy who's a dodge tank.
Indeed. It feels like it has endless replayability and customization Want Guy to be your Black Mage? Go right ahead! Want Maria to be a dual-ax wielding amazon? Sure, why not. Want Firion to be a knife-wielding thief? You can do that. only wish Steal was a thing in this game
The things I did to increase skills in that game were beyond ridiculous. Casting "Soul Trap" on a dead goat over and over. Letting a giant wail on me endlessly while I just stood there to increase my armor skill. Beating a dragon to within an inch of its life, only to heal it back to full and continue the beating. Resetting my Stealth, Pickpocket, Lockpicking, etc., over and over just to I could earn more perk points by leveling up... But the important distinction is, you don't need to be this crazy to progress through Skyrim in a normal fashion. I was just doing this because I could, and you can be incredibly overpowered without doing any of the silly things I did. Another point which is just as important is that I freaking love Skyrim and already was having a blast before "grinding" anything. I can't say that for Final Fantasy II.
@@0Fyrebrand0 You may not like FF2 as a matter of preference but you're just as capable of progressing without attacking yourself 500 times. Granted a game from the 1980s isn't as polished as a game from the 2010s but it's perfectly playable.
same with Tactis Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics... Also yeah FF2 is a very old "OPEN-WORLD" game, you can sequence break and go to towns your not supposed to go to if you want and thats pretty fun.
@Weston Meyer ye but some powerspikes in difficulty where really REAAAAAALLY off putting. The first time on the dreadnaught area or myssidia tower made me wanna kill myself so much. I thought it was impossible, then I realised that the levels scale according to enemy fought (I think but im still not super sure on that one) so it wasnt all that painfull, I could see my characters adapting, and I love the whole "adaptation" factor this game has to offer. But when it comes to Missidia tower this place still makes me wanna Kill myself because of those stupid fucking imps!!!
I agree. I love the dialogue system in this game and should be standard for any RPG (Why wouldn't there be a keyword based dialogue when talking to new NPCs from a place you have never been on?). Another thing I really love about FF2 is the art. You can clearly tell it was Amano's favorite to work on up until 6, he made so many illustrations of Firion that it's ridiculous.
@@pol610 Probably, but the devs didn't have time to implement it. The prototype to multiple endings in Japanese-styled RPGs likely started with Langrisser.
I just beat this game, the nes version, and while I can appreciate this video (and gave it a thumbs up) I found the game painfully tedious, and not just because of the grind. The story is alright for its time, as is the music, but I was having the opposite of fun beating it, and that was because of the dungeons. The door room traps are agonizing imo. Though I do get a kick out of how absolutely op the toad spell (if leveled) is. I also imagine the version you played was more entertaining in general.
The NES version is the most tedious version. It's way better on the ps1. I'm in the middle of a playthrough on the NES version, just after getting the ultima spell
Teleport is also broken, at lv.16 there are like less than 10 enemies who won’t be instantly killed by it. And toad is even better in the later versions because at lv.16 you can win some of the best weapons and armour from a secret mini game.
Teleport is also broken, at lv.16 there are like less than 10 enemies who won’t be instantly killed by it. And toad is even better in the later versions because at lv.16 you can win some of the best weapons and armour from a secret mini game.
Actually, this has been getting a lot more views since mid-December. Back then it had about 350 views, so I'm thankful that it's been getting traction! Thanks for watching and for the kind words. I appreciate it!
Came back to this again and even in spite of your thoughts on the video looking back I rewatched it when XVI's release restarted my series binge lol. Played VI and found myself wishing a little bit that all the actions I did boosted that action a tiny bit
Damn, never realised you could attack your own party members for HP increases. Hell, I just roleplayed my three guys and had a blast, didn't even grind until the very end just to be sure. edit : Had to say that a lot of the "issues" with 2 were also "issues" with 8 as regards customisation and game breaking through grinding (to get cards)
My playthrough was pretty much the same. I just set "classes" in my head for each party member and focused on the relevant stats for each. I grinded for about the last quarter of the game, I think. I honestly didn't know people hated the leveling system so much until recently.
Aye. Its called prioritizing. Everyone got basic healing spells and then from there I organized and used the row system for preferences. Guy at the front being my Knight, the girl being my archer and mage, our brave guy being my paladin.
I actually softlocked myself early in the game. Im.a grinder. And well, I got my evasion rate so high playing rope-a-dope with dual shields and kept Mingwu trying to steal spells from Warlocks. At around 150-300 hp per character, I got in this one battle casting all protective spells -- blink, barrier, faze...etc, and this is what happened: 1.) I couldn't run 2.) I only had shields so I could only use magic so it encouraged the game to soft locked me 3.) Only Mingwu could hit and do maybe 5 damage points to an enemy making battles super long 4.) Since my evasion tate was so darn high, I kept missing the enemy with Mingwu being my only guy who could do damage when party's MP ran out 5.) I couldn't hit myself to kill all the characters 6.) Couldn't flee. But why oh why did I attempt such a foolhardy mission? 1.) Steal spells so I wouldn't have to buy every spell, before Mingwu leaves the party the 1st time 2.).Raise MP and magic levels and shields/evasion at the same time. But why did you try to softlock yourself? 1.) I wasn't 2.).I misjudged use of MP and tried to see if I could beat up purple flamingos and ogre mages near fynn and ran out of MP placing me in a no-due scenario with even with 300 HP each the enemies were missing me constantly and I couldn't flee. I couldn't even beat myself up. So I had to reload a save since after 53 times trying to run away, it was impossible. Even Deadringers were missing, when most of the time they can 1 shot a character who only has 300 HP. But apparently, even the dead ringer couldn't hit me. Why was I even doing this? I just told you why. Any further justification? Becoming an all powerful dude just like any other RPG, exploiting mingwu's abilities early in the game right befure he leaves the party. It's my grinding technique. Go to a block were there are hard enemies near Finn and walk left until you hit a hard enemy, but make sure you are only 3 or 4 blocks way from easy enemies..
I love the level up system. Start the skill you wanna use, more you use -> more u do damage and get good at. It's like real life. You decide what weapons and magic you want for each member in the party to use for the journey. This concept is where FF job classes kinda started to take root, because you could always change your characters equipment and give new spells. Even if they have to start from the ground and do terrible damage with their new gear, it kinda make sense anyway? You can't just give someone a different weapon type and expect they do great damage, because they have to learn how to use them first! I even use this philosophy for myself when I wanna get good at things in real life, like drawing, cooking, reading a new language etc.
Just beat the game, really hated it but totally understand your points. Extremely entertaining video felt like 5 mins watching it, keep up the spectacular work!
I like grinding, maybe even more than you do, but when I'm given too many stats to grind all at the same time - I'm likely to burn out before finishing the game. Even if I'm not required to grind all of them, I'd feel bad for skipping some. To me, the best example within FF series in optional grinding is FFVIII (my fav), where you're not at all required to grind (aside *maybe* for the very last boss) but the grind ceiling you're given, with all the crafting in mind, is stellar. I've had a run where I set out to grind my way into a full theoretically-attainable stack of every item, magic, card, stat, etc. and I spent about a week of playtime on the very first tiny island and, predictably, burnt out before its bounty withered out. Now I'm wondering if fully grinding out FFII will take less effort than that. Maybe I should in fact give it a shot.
grinding for the sake of grinding is boring, especially when you grind to raise a stat only to have another counterbalanced stat decrease. so in the end, you were funneled into choosing "do I grind a warrior or a mage" and that itself is boring. it was slightly changed in all the remakes but thats where the real hate for the game began.
FF VII had interesting grinding, the crashed sunken plane could be used to grind permanent stat bonus items, but was entirerly optional, since max level was overpowered anyway. I grinded a lot to make half the party better than Cloud.
Level up system in FF8 sucks and thats one of the reasons why is my least favorite of all. It goes agains the bases of a RPG. Level up should be a good thing. But level up in FF8 makes you weaker. The best example of grinding in the franchise is FF1 in GBA and PSP and only because is not tedious and level up makes a difference.
I would have liked the ability to fight with your party in a less obtuse way but I agree. That's exactly how I thought of it too. I can't think of any game that actually offers a sparring function
First off, thanks for making this video. 2 is not my favorite game in the series (that would be 4) but I think it deserves some recognition for what it DOES do, which is give players more freedom, and provides a surprisingly detailed story that really tries to sell you on the stakes of what happens- The Empire in this game is NOT a joke or a vague threat. Towns you visit get decimated later in the game, either from the Empire's warship, or the Emperor's Tornado, and it's kind of sobering to see that. There's also the fact that, due to the extra characters, the game has a high mortality rate to it, which can also help sell the notion that you _are_ the underdogs fighting a much more powerful, much more dangerous enemy. That aside, the point you brought up about weapon choices bears a point of mention- your weapon choices function as a part of your overall build. While your weapons don't increase your stats directly like in later games, each weapon still has advantages and disadvantages; if you want to make a dedicated mage, you're going to want to equip them with a staff, as staves have the lowest magic accuracy penalty (okay, knives also have the same magical accuracy penalty, but they have lower damage, even though they have a higher accuracy.) If you want to equip them with a shield, you're probably better off giving them an axe in their main hand, as axes have the highest damage output in the game, barring special swords like the Exaclibur or the Masamune. 2 is NOT a perfect game, by any stretch of the imagination. The encounter rate is high, the dungeons can be frustrating, and the stat system takes a bit of getting used to. But I don't think it's a bad game either, and it has more than its fair share of merits. And I've seen a lot of people for a long time say it's a terrible game, let alone a terrible Final Fantasy, so it's nice to see that not everyone shares this opinion.
"Why do I get the feeling that we're doing this to ourselves?" This is a complicated issue in game design. The classic saying is, "if given the chance, players WILL optimize the fun out of the game." This is definitely an example of that. Game design isn't just manipulating mechanics to make a fun experience, it's also manipulating the PLAYER into not using those mechanics in a way that will ruin their experience. FF2 didn't do the best job at the latter in this case.
its weird this game is called the worst just for its leveling when the worst case of leveling in any game, oblivion, is a masterpiece unmatched in its greatness
solid arguments, respectful AND educational....wow this review was amazing dude. also, ff2 was my first ever FF game....and yet I still didnt mind this game at all, in fact I love it a lot
I'll be honest. I really do enjoy FF2. Is it the best? No. Is it horrible? Also no. The problem lies in nobody really gave it a chance. It has a great story, and I feel if the way character growth is handled was improved or even changed to how it is traditionally, it'd be much more well received.
I really like this game. Glad someone else gives a voice of reason. If you don't abuse the leveling system, it's a great game. Edit: by abuse, I mean the glitch there you just select an action, and then undo it incessantly. May have been fixed since the NES version though. Edit 2: The ultima spell at level 16 is terrible. The programmer meant for it to be that way because "sometimes, when you work hard for something, you get nothing" (paraphrased)
The reasoning was ultima is an ancient technology, and technology should get better over time not worse. So ultima was once the pinnacle of magic, but over time even beginners magic (ie fire and ice etc) are stronger. Also to prevent his damage formula from being removed the programmer locked the formula with random pieces of the game when he locked it so even if they just tried removing the formula and replace it with there own it would break the game.
@@yellowgreymorals well most people bash the game like its superman 64, so someone saying the game has flaws but I dont think it's as bad as most people will make it out to be, makes him the voice of reason.
I hate how everybody says “half the game is attacking yourself” like you never even need to do that 🤦 your HP levels at a steady pace while playing through the game because you fight stronger enemies as the game progresses
Any time I've played FFII, I'd grind maybe an hour in the beginning, and then played normally, because I would gain stats pretty quickly. The added HP at the beginning of the game is nice, but even that isn't necessary.
Final Fantasy II is an incredibly interesting game to me. Initially, I was kinda put off from it, myself, sorta tacitly accepting common criticisms of it as facts that made the game intrinsically terrible. I think I broadly agree with you, actually, regarding the simultaneous validity and subjectivity of the flak the game gets. I think that Final Fantasy II, more than any other game in the series and more than just about any other RPG I've played, is a game that very much needs to be met on its own terms, for the player to take an interest in learning how it works and how to effectively engage with its systems. Most criticisms of it I'm aware of are issues that I feel likely crop up as a result of people trying to play it the same way they'd play a more conventional RPG, and getting increasingly-frustrated by the resistance the game puts up to their attempts to force that to work. I think "grinding" is a big example of this. The game is actually WAY smarter about how it balances this than... frankly, ANYBODY really gives it credit for, because it does such a bad job of conveying to the player what all actually goes into calculating whether or not a stat will increase or how much weapon or magic proficiency you gain. There are two big factors here; one I know to be present in all versions, and one I'm not entirely sure if the remakes kept: Firstly, enemies actually have an internal "Rank" stat that reflects how powerful they are; think of it like an adaptation of the concept of different enemies having different EXP yields. I'm not entirely sure how the calculation works for stats (I'm almost certain Rank is still incorporated into it), but I know that a character's proficiency in a weapon type or spell is compared to the Ranks of the enemies you're fighting to determine how much experience is gained. The effect is you'll get stronger faster, and underleveled spells and weapon types will also catch up faster, if you're fighting enemies at around your strength level, and faster still if you're fighting enemies that are stronger than you. Secondly, a big thing that contributes to how grindy the NES original is seen as being is that the game actually has a "diminishing returns" mechanic set up specifically to PREVENT leveling up proficiencies a whole bunch in just one battle. Each subsequent use of at least spells within a single battle yields less EXP than the last, and I'm pretty sure the formula DOES allow this to reach zero per use past a certain point. So, the most effective way to level up at least spells is to use them once or twice in each battle versus enemies around your strength level (or higher, if you're up to it), then beat those enemies and move on. I'm not sure how much this was carried over into the remakes, and it's a little tougher to easily measure since remakes replaced the NES version's numerical proficiency experience display with a gauge display, but if it is present, I'm fairly certain its impact has been reduced at least somewhat. In regards to the "hitting yourself" thing, I didn't notice this as much in the NES original, but at least as of the GBA version, the game will sometimes just hand out HP bonuses every so often without even requiring that your party be hit, presumably to address the exact issue of "needing" to do that in order to build up your party's HP. Really, I find that the only time just spamming Attack in battle for leveling purposes is really useful is for increasing Shield proficiency, which goes up REALLY fast when a character is dual-wielding Shields (probably since Shield EXP yields are balanced around attacking with just one equipped, in a character's off hand) so it really doesn't take long doing this at all until you're good to go on Shield levels. Plus, as seen in that speedrun footage, attacking with two Shields equipped doesn't ACTUALLY attack; characters just do a little hop-dance with their shields that the game counts as an attack for the purposes of distributing Shield proficiency experience. Ergo, that plus the massive evasion bonus you get from two shields means the healing woes of beating up your own party won't be an issue. I also feel it warrants mentioning that, much like almost every other RPG I'm aware of, Final Fantasy II's endgame is NOT balanced around a maxed-out party or anything close to it. It's okay that you're not going to be getting your spells or weapon ranks up to super high levels, for example. I don't think ANY of my characters' spells broke double digits in level by the time I beat the game in either of my playthroughs, and I was fine. Those higher levels are something you CAN go for if you want to, but they're really only good for showing off and the game is COMPLETELY beatable without coming close to reaching them. Sorry for writing a whole essay in the comments here; Final Fantasy II is just a game that's REALLY grown on me recently. It IS definitely an acquired taste, I think, but it's one I don't regret acquiring one bit. In some ways, it changed how I approach RPGs when I play them, and I actually have a lot more fun with them with that new approach. It got me to consider strategies like changing equipment mid-battle, for example; something that can be TREMENDOUSLY-useful in Final Fantasies II through V. Swapping out a character's weapons for a pair of shields when they need to go on the defensive, or swapping in elemental weapons to take advantage of an enemy's weakness. Figuring out that Scholars and Rangers can be used essentially like proto-Mystic Knights via this strategy in Final Fantasy III was one of the highlights of that playthrough for me, and it felt really good to find that those same tactics carry over pretty nicely into Final Fantasy V, too. Giving Final Fantasy II an honest chance, really trying to meet it on its own terms and properly experience its merits, genuinely broadened my horizons in terms of how RPGs can be played and structured, and its development team has my wholehearted thanks for that. Plus, it's just so ambitious and earnest that I can't bring myself to dislike it, however messy the finished product may be. And yes, this even goes for the NES original.
if you want to drag battles on through grinding you can always just equip 2 shields since you can change equipment mid battle. The game only levels up what you have equipped at the end of the battle so you can spam attacking with shields (Which does nothing) And before the last monster runs away just equip back whatever you want to grind,Its really useful for leveling up weapon ranks.
I just got into the series last week. I decided to play chronologically and since I'm currently playing II right now and already have a few hours in, I can very confidently say that I not only think it's a great game but also that it's much better than its predecessor. The story is just so interesting, I was not expecting melancholy and legitimate heartfelt moments in an 80s JRPG, and I couldn't be happier about it.
@@dopaminecloud almost a year later, I got quite a few Final Fantasy games under my belt already. From 1 to 5 and 8, 12 and 15. And I sincerely don't remember Final Fantasy II's middle game that fondly. The final dungeon's concept of hell was not as captivating as Ultimecia Castle from VIII in my opinion. Like, the middle game was very, very apathetic, the more pointless dungeons and overwhelming power scale from my party's end I had to go through (I started the game wanting to make Firion this ultimate ice mage, ended up not even getting Blizzard to level 15 and I spammed it :c), the less engaged I was in the story. I like II, it's a top 5 for me, but only because of the early game. The final dungeon itself wouldn't be that amazing since it doesn't do anything remarkable from a narrative standpoint, but it was even less impactful because of how mundane and unappealing what came before it was.
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 it can't be that much simpler, and even if it is I doubt the GBA remake changed the original's essence. For an 80s nintendo game, I think Final Fantasy II was ahead of its time and a pioneer in story-telling in videogames, not unlike what I feel with the likes of The Last of Us. One could argue that IV did it better, but IV had the hardware advantage and personally I think the DS remake adds immensely to the story with its epic cutscenes and surprisingly good voice acting and cinematography. It's an unfair comparison.
People complain about the best way to level yourself is attacking your party. It's so horrible, but fft is everyone's fave and it the same way throw stone your party to fast level your party and no one says anything about it.
the thing is you dont have to exploit it. Its something nerds online says, the same people who think guarding 5/10 times in FF3 is complicit for fun rather than bad body odor. Rather than slashing Dragons to level up your class which is probably what game developers had in mind when designing that game. Either case, all you have to do is "have atleast 300 HP of your party, level up your weapons and magic to level 4" where you usually buy it at the place before going on Josef mission". Any spell you think you need, Esuna and such. Its also good because you will increase MP which you need in the game. And getting too high HP will mean it will be expensive meaning it will be unfun. So dont do that. Enemies will bash you higher so thats it really. You just cut through the game with scars and fighting skills and you win!
FINALLY!! I found a video that doesn't just hate on the game! I get it. The game is not perfect, but most games aren't perfect. I played this game on GBA in middle school and had a blast, after I figured out where to go in the beginning. I loved the storyline and the soundtrack is really good! I understand being critical of a game, but this game gets a level of furious hatred that I can't comprehend. Many RPG's have grinding flaws and skate by unscathed. I love FFII and am tired of video after video tearing it to shreds. I played the game normally with no issues, loved seeing the stat increases after every battle, and enjoyed leveling up all the spells.
to be honest, the Ultima spell in this game has it's damage based on the average level of your weapon skills, 6 primary stats and spell levels. If you put it on a character with all weapon skills at level 16 and at least 50+ in most of the 6 primary stat, one of them being spirit (it's a white magic spell) then it will do 400 to 500 damage at level 1. I have personally tested this myself, despite knowing ahead of time it would cost me countless hours of grinding. I too like this game but I normally grind more of the early spells into overpoweredness so that even though I use strategy where it's more useful, I know it will one-hit most of the trash mobs that you encounter.
So, in a brief way to say, the one's that critizice FF II is because they didn't understand it :) p.s. I love more the original NES and the PSP remake: somehow they don't get the same love as the GBA remake.. but well, not a big deal either :)
they criticize it _because_ they understand it. it was poorly balanced, has systems that were failed experiments for a reason and the leveling was just dull and boring. if you like it, more power to you but dont pretend like its some misunderstood masterpiece that only those with 'the know' can understand.
Had me until the end! Soul of Rebirth was one of the best parts of it, and it really rewards you for thinking ahead with some of the guest characters. I enjoyed that aspect immensely and wish that more games did things like it.
I'm convinced there is not a single bad Final Fantasy game. This time last year I forced myself to play through XIII, and once you down to the final three chapters of the game, it really opens up. And I loved the shit out of Final Fantasy II on Dawn of Souls.
I played the NES version for the first time recently and I honestly loved it. The worldbuilding and music are outstanding for an NES title, the soundtrack and mood seems a lot darker compared to the regular happy go lucky Final Fantasy faire and the keyword system, while underutilized, served its purpose well. One example that sticks out to me there is saying "Wild Rose" to the entry guard on the warship as a joke and him actually recognizing the term and attacking me for it! I could really immerse myself in the world of 2 which I can't say for 1 or 3. (Spoilers for the ending below, please don't read unless you've finished FF2.) Also having a party member that on his own accord sided with the empire, not because they became corrupted with some magic or mind-controlled, but because they got a taste of power and couldn't let go to the point where they would kill their own childhood friends and their own sibling to keep it really struck me too. Again, the writing is very simplistic but the themes are so much deeper than you'd expect from such an old game. People aren't giving it enough credit.
I thinl the Pixel Remaster actually make 2 good changes : -The game now track how many HP/MP you lose during in battle, instead of just doing a Max HP - Current HP to determine so you can now heal in battle without penalty. -The EXP needed to LVUP spells and weapon skill is reduce at least for the first LV. These are 2 good changes, sadly Square didn't went the full way, with these the game doesn't need to the stupidly high encounter rate, but they kept the stupidly high encounter rate, they could have at least halved the encounter rate and this would have been great, sadly there's so many battle that you can just being overpowered without any exploit or extra grinding.
The gba version of ff2 might be my favorite or second favorite final fantasy game period Also soul of rebirth was a fun little side story. It was really short but a neat way to interact with some characters that died along the way
In my opinion FF2 is a good game, the only reason it was not well liked is because of how new it's leveling system was, to many it was a new thing that was not well explained or used at the time, however that doesn't mean it was bad. Yes the game could be a bit of a grind at time but so was FF1, not to mention that the leveling system would be used in multiple different games and spin-offs that people end up enjoying, i think it was just a case of to new to soon. (Note, the only reason I described it as a grind is because I had a bad habit of rushing ahead instead of trying to up my stats.)
Thank you for this. I have personally considered II to be one of my absolute favorites. I played it as a child in horribly-translated English and absolutely adored it. Also the leveling system, while unusual, didn’t bother me at all. I think people just hate it because it’s different.
I like this game more than FF1 Because back in FF1 there was hardly any dialog and you needed someone, something or even the manual just to get somewhere This game is not as bad with that and honestly once you pick up Mythril items it's easier to not die
This video is what finally convinced me to play through FF2 (the PSP version). I really enjoyed it! The grinding was actually pretty interesting. After the first dungeon I noticed Firion ran out of MP way too fast for him to be a paladin like I wanted. So I decided to grind for MP and magic. After only TWO BATTLES focusing on white magic his MP tripled from 16 to 48! It took all of 5 minutes and he was back on the path I wanted him on. I realized that the world map is perfect for grinding and leveling, and dungeons are where you put your training to the test. If you use equipment and white magic wisely, I promise you never have to grind for HP. Whenever a new character joined the party, their HP was around the same as my other characters, so I figured I was where the developers expected. I didn't get a single game over (though there were close calls), and I beat the game with each character around 1900 HP. You just gotta pick your battles in dungeons. There are some battles and enemy types you just can't run from, but you learn those. I always ran anytime I saw a vampire girl or Death Rider. They just weren't worth the resources. The boss fights were a fun challenge and really tested my team synergy. Overall, I think 2 is a really great game, on par with FF1. (Also Soul of Rebirth was really fun)
I didn’t know some people hated it that much. My first run was good, but my second run I screwed up and got stuck dealing with the walking dungeon with no way of escaping safely.
Bravo for having a mind of your own:) That's all that is required to see how beautiful Final Fantasy II is. Thanks for making this. I think it is well-crafted and genuine.
I feel the same way about XIII. (As a standalone experience.) The Pixel Remaster has so many quality of life improvements that I honestly can't see a reason for hate anymore. Keywords are colour coded. Stats no longer go down when you train others. When you think about it, the game was a pioneer. Just look at The Elder Scrolls.
When I first played FF it was explorers. A very customisable game from what you want and very much like ff2. Why it's still my favorite is because I always try something. My favorite one I still play on is a BEEFY Paliden with the best heal, that swirl with combo, and two other attacks with Mp and hp drain. I love that! My favorite non-ff games are 7th Dragon and Etraian games. Hard but fun games. My friend who is more into Jrpg say that I have a certain look at games like this. "Head slightly raised," he describes it. I just like tough and customizable things in Rpgs. He said I should play the elder scrolls games but I don't have much money so I do emulate. But one day I will buy the games I spent so many hours into. My experience anyways, what's yours?
I completed FF2 on GBA twice and never, ever, had to attack myself. I also never felt like I had to grind massively. If you ask me the evolution on your characters felt A LOT more natural than most of the other main series games.
I actually have fond memories of this games. Hell im still playing this game. I experiment and try out different builds. I like themes and every situation usually have a solution. My only complaint honestly was just the abundance of Monster trap rooms. Sure you know what I mean. Walk in and your already a few steps in and it takes 3 steps to get out but the monster rate is 1 step high. (Part of video addressing it plays) ...oh ...ok good you do. I think it was on purpose to trick you into grinding without grinding. At least give me money or treasure for my trouble.
Jesus I first watched this 3 years ago? It's my most favorite review since I'm still listening over and over... also helps this is a personal favorite game of mine.
Who even needs to grind in this game? Im playing it for the first time and have exp-gain on 0.5 and I don’t think that its that hard. Instead of grinding people should more often change Equipment and the strategy - Thats more rewarding than running around in circles for an hour
I played this game and while yes, the world can be a bit too open and the leveling was a bit grindy (especially MP) I enjoyed it. I like that you can customize your own team and make them how you want Edit:I played the NES version, still found it fun and even while attacking myself, and still had a challenging time Edit2: 29:51 Yeah, I thought that too
People act like FF2 has this weird leveling up system, but it's the system used in the Elder Scrolls series. The thing that people complain about, hitting yourself over and over to get HP, isn't really how your supposed to play the game. Evasion is much more important than HP, and maxing HP is a trap since late game enemies do damage base off your max hp. Once you learn how to grind, the grinding is much more interesting than any other grind in Final Fantasy; because it's not mindless pressing the A button, you have to make choices on which spells you want to update and on the enemy to target. Also seeing all your skills level up in a single battle is very satisfying. But the kicker is, you barely have to grind, because of teleport and warp will one shot most bosses and almost all Mobs. But it plays differently and you're natural FF instincts work against you. It's a different kind of cheese.
Had your video in my recommended ones today. To be honest, I enjoyed EVERY single game of the series quite a lot. Sure, I liked some more than others, but for me personally, there is no bad Final Fantasy. I'm actually pretty glad that you talked about the game from an objective point of view. People normally are influenced too much by comparing FF2 to other titles of the series. That's just my personal two cents. I hope you and everyone else is healthy during this time!
Beside stating that you have to grind "for every RPG ever", I think your point on how you will NATURALLY level up things without having to grind is very solid.
It would be interesting to see a version of this game where using a spell like Poison would level up a general Black Magic trait, instead of just that one spell. The way leveling up magic works in Elder Scrolls.
I didn' t play FF2 yet, but I' m open minded. FF13 is my favourite and before I bought it, I watched some videos that were negative. The game looked interesting, so I just bought it and I don't regret it.
@@QuantemDeconstructor they actually fixed that odd design choice in the PS1 version, but kept the original difficulty. Like potions are 1000 gil or something
It baffles me that people will talk about how bad Final Fantasy II when Final Fantasy XIII stripped out exploration, side-quests, mini games, non-human party members, combat depth, and told the story so poorly that you had to stop playing and read menus to get any sort of idea what's even going on. II isn't my favorite either, but it was one of my most played PSP games. Do these people not know what sparring is? Did these people not watch or like Dragon Ball Z? "WHY IS PICCOLO HITTING GOHAN!?" It's called sparring. It was a bit rough in FFII, but the mechanics are sound and it's a thing people do in the real world. You practice hitting to hit harder, you practice taking hits to take hits more efficiently, you practice casting to cast more efficiently.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I do have an uncommon affection for this game and like it much better than III, V, and I'm willing to go as far to say I kind of like it better than VII in some respects. The leveling system has a very DnDesque charm to it, as you can basically build your characters how you like. The 4th slot changes with different characters throughout the game, which honestly I thought was pretty refreshing especially for it's time. Not only did it get the main NPC of that chapter more involved and made it feel like they had skin in the game, you were given a new member to experiment party dynamics with, which did relieve the dullness of battles a little. And the story was somethin else too, I don't think any other game at the time had so many main character deaths. That's not to say everything's aged well, but in context of it's time, and where the series was in it's life, it really wasn't all that controversial to experiment. If you consider how sequels like Zelda II and Castlevania II were drastically different from their predecessors formula and were still well received among fans during the time, I think FFII would have been just as loved if it had made it to the states back then.
@@aeroga2383 They really weren't, I'm serious. People who came into the franchises from the 3rd games onward grew to hate them because it was the weird different middle child of the bunch, but overall when they were first released, before any formula was set in stone for these franchises, they were liked.
In order to properly develop the characters and achieve the higher-end jobs on fft you're also forced to grind for hours and attack your own party members, but no one (me included) see that as detrimental. I've never played ff2, but my guess is that the problem with it lies in its story, rather than progression system
No thats bullshit. You may have to grind to level 4 of each weapon and magic before Josef mission "And possibly have about 300 HP meter but not more than that because then your Inn will be expensive, magic meter is good to increase which it will do automatically the more magic you use during your grind. Which i did. And after that you dont have to grind at all you can just let enemies pound you. You just can blast through it til the end like a normal game while you use a weapon in each hand to use on that character. Unless you wanna grind at end point (SPOILERS) when you get Leon back.
FFII is great (in gba at least), it can be very challenging, but you can adjust dificulty by “grinding”, and, as you said, you can level up in literally every battle. I personally like to make my party a force of nature, and this ff lets me do that ... every ff lets you do that... use the magicites, materia, junction system, etc...
I remember getting Dawn of Souls on GBA and thinking Final Fantasy 2 was awesome. I'm definitely looking forward to playing it again with the pixel remaster.
Jesus Christ, Thank you for this video, i played the game and it had it's flaws but it was overall fun, i never liked that bandwagon mindset of hating on this game for things like the keyword system that it's barely a mechanich while the popular thing is to agree FF6 is perfect and shouldn't be criticized even though half the game doesn't work, half the cast is full-on useless until the half point by wich every character becomes the same (except the actual two to three characters that remain useless) and how anoying using to use are the special actions for how useless they are, srsly thank you.
People often follow the crowd. If there is one bad review everyone, gives bad review, although the game is really old and not comparable to new final fantasy games, it still is a really good game for nes! I have played a translated version of the original famicom for nes, and I really liked it
By the way, the reason why you can hit your own party members is because if one of them gets hit by sleep you can hit them to wake them up. It was said in an interview by Akitoshi Kawazu.
Along with FF1, FF2 is my favorite in the series. I was impressed by the amount of hate that this game has. -The game isnt broken, at least the GBA and PSP remakes. All the spells works, hitting your characters isnt neccesary, just optional, and is much better than newer games where this is just useless and level up is very quick if you fight with high rank monsters. -Contrary to what some people said, the game explains you the mechanics, at least in these two remakes, in a room on the rebel base. -The game never makes you grind a lot, in fact, i found it one of the less grinding games in the franchise along with FF1. -Even if all of these was true, the game was released in 1988 in a console that was a potato. And in terms of character level up, is one of the most realistic RPGs i ever seen. -I can understand why some people think the dungeons are somewhat annoying, although the combats itself arent really too hard, and is very funny when the fanbase praise FF5, 6, 7, 8 when this games have like 10 times more grinding and 10 times more annoying encounter rate! Welcome to the hypocrites club! I will show you the way.
The pixel remaster boosters and auto battle go a long way to ease the spell issues. Got a late game spell? Need Esuna to be effective? Throw on 4x spell exp and use your fancy new spell.
I love FF2! Though years and years ago I tried the "hitting yourself" method and it honestly fucked up my game so much I had to delete the file. I just couldn't get passed the dreadnought airship dungeon, it was that bad. If it works for you then ok, but if you want to play FF2 I would recommend NOT doing this method.
I think it depends on which version the PS1 version is based on the original Famicom/NES version, which was way broken the GBA and PSP versions are slightly easier.
@@tenbones545 Oh wow, this was about 2009 with the PS1 version so it was a long ass time ago, but from memory what happened was that I had high HP and Cure IX or something around the time the mission to blow up the Dreadnought airship. I ran out of Ethers fast and got stuck there because after you save a character in the airship there the Black Knight character will block the entrance out. I tried doing some more grinding for cash but in FF2 the inn's become more pricey the more injured you are. It became way too much of a hassle, so I cursed myself for trying this method and then re-started playing the game "normally", and had a much easier time. Not to mention it's not fun at all. The mad grinding and having to waltz back to towns to revive characters, again and again, it takes hours and it sucks. FF2 IS pretty grind-heavy, but it's more fun to take the game at a normal pace instead of going insane and hitting your own party members so they're too "overleveled".
FF2 may have its flaws, but the hate it gets with the reworked versions is completely overblown imo (same with FF15 and 8 to some degree btw). Played the gba version and had a completely different experience than a lot of people. "Having to hit yourself" is absolutely not true. I never did it myself and my characters had very high HP stats at the end of the game although I never (last boss aside) actively grinded in this game. I went into it mostly blind (you just cant escape the "have to hit yourself" phrase) and decided on a certain playstyle for each character while focusing only on a few spells and got pretty easily through the game (until the very final boss). So I am asking myself: Is the game considered grindy because its difficult if you dont grind (magic) or because people decide they want to level up all those spells even if they are not really forced to? One thing I really don't understand is how universally loved Final Fantasy Tactics is, but games like FF2 are so hated. Anyone going 100% blind into Tactics is probably going to get their ass kicked. The problem with that game is, that your character levels dont really matter. What matters are the jobs and the ability points (and the gear). So when you go online and read discussions about Tactics you will see plenty of people saying how they did their extra grinding by attacking their own party members or throwing stones at them. While in neither games you are totally forced to do this kind of thing, I'd still argue you are much more dependant to abuse the game mechanics in Tactics than you are in FF2. Tactics is also super unbalanced. It has jobs and abilities that completely break the game and others which are pretty much useless. And you can softlock your save file because those random encounters get way too strong when they level up with you and you arent able anymore to grind ability points. Dungeons in this game never felt like a chore to me. There are other games with super confusing dungeon design. In those games it gets extremely frustrating having no idea where to go while constantly getting interrupted by random encounters. Even though there are branches within dungeons in this, not even once I felt lost. I also dont unterstand why those trap doors are hated sooo much. Some people view them as punishment. Personally I saw each room as "one step closer to figuring out this dungeon". While they do have an extreme high encounter rate, its still mostly only 1 or 2 fights to get out of them. Its not like they take an eternity. I also thought they work really well with the gameplay design. Because you pretty much get at the very least 1 stat increasement 90% of the time, fights in some way still feel rewarding/addicting and not like a complete waste of time. Also liked that the gba version was so fast. Very short loading times, short casting times, short fights overall. Good joob with the video. Those 45 mins felt more like 15. I enjoyed you putting in so many clips from other reviewers and sources into this.
Since it’s been a little over a year since posting this video, I’d like to give my current thoughts on the game and the video.
I still stand by what I said in the video, I just wish I could have presented it a bit better. Watching it now, If I could go back and change a few things, I’d definitely go more in depth on the arguments given against FFII. I feel like I did a poor job giving the common critiques of the game a full explanation so that everyone knows exactly where they’re coming from and understands their argument completely before going into my defense. There were times in the video I’d present their arguments at surface level and then move on without going into more detail. Their arguments are logical and valid, and I wish I could go back and present them that way, even if I think the other side of the argument can be just as logical and valid. For example, the critique of needing to take damage in order to increase your HP wasn’t explained at all before moving on to why I disagree with it (21:52). This would have also avoided moments in the video where I inadvertently presented an argument as if they were saying one thing when they meant something else.
One thing I do want to address is how most of the complaints I talk about in the video are mainly from the original Famicom version of the game and that those arguments don’t apply to the later versions of the game (GBA/PSP). I would agree with this if most reviews didn’t treat every version of the game as if they were the same. The most common being the need to attack yourself in order to succeed in the game. Some have pointed out that that criticism is more accurate in the Famicom version of the game since it’s much more difficult and unfair. Even though later versions of the game balanced out the difficulty heavily, it’s still present in most reviews for the GBA and PSP versions of the game. Every point I brought up in the video was found in reviews for all versions of the game.
If there’s one thing I want people to take away from the video it’s an understanding of the other point of view, on how the game can still be enjoyed even with its weaknesses. As I said at the beginning of the video, this video is more about trying to help people understand how and why someone could find this game enjoyable (4:06) rather than trying to convince those people that FFII isn’t a bad game because trying to change someone’s mind on anything is almost always a fruitless effort. I still think the game has more strengths than weaknesses though, hence why I don’t think it’s a bad game.
Thank you for your comments and your kind words, it means a lot to me. Even if we disagree, I appreciate taking the time to watch such a long video.
I honestly think the leveling system of ff2 is way better than any rpg because it would open up a lot more creativity
If I could hit myself and become like saitama in an rpg then its an absolute win
Hey dude you are not the only one who likes it, i like it too.
Please defend 8 or 15
"I’d definitely go more in depth on the arguments given against FFII. I feel like I did a poor job giving the common critiques of the game a full explanation so that everyone knows exactly where they’re coming from" I mean, it's been beaten to death why FFII is considered bad. Stating the already known reasons for its weaknesses would be kinda redundant. I'd imagine everyone watching this video would know so. It's good to see a video that DOES go over more of FFII other than 'BRoKeN lEvLlInG sYstAM"
One of the best feelings I had as a young gamer was discovering that dangerous area just to the north of the start of the game that you definitely aren’t supposed to go to. You get one-shot by everything. Except there are turtle enemies who are very weak to ice... So I leveled up ice a couple of levels, and with some trial and error I was able to start taking out these turtles for some insanely good item drops. I felt so powerful that I had beat enemies I was never supposed to and been rewarded with rare items. That feeling will always stick with me, because I figured it out and made it work.
It is almost as if you played the game as intended. You used your brain. Fascinating :D
@@The_Gallowglass tbf, he's a "young" gamer atm 😂
Oh, that sounds like a hell of a memory. Gratz
That's still bad game design. I'm glad you made it work, though.
@@krillin6how is it bad game design?
Director of the game never threw away his idea. He just went on with it, polish it, and got us FFLegend/SaGa series.
Really?! That's awesome!
@@soronexle2681 well it's more like he was the director after Sakaguchi stepped down from director. his name is Akitoshi Kawazu, and he was originally a designer on the game, as well as a designer for Final Fantasy I.
Another designer was Koichi Ishii, the creative director for most of the Mana games, minus Trials of Mana
Unfortunately for Kawazu, his darling SaGa games never amount to be that much fun either, unless grinding, guesswork, and arbitrary chance are your JRPG kinks.
@@GIR177 it's an RPG. You're gonna grind.
seriously you'd hate Dragon Quest.
@@GIR177 you kink shaming my rpg habits?
Excerpt from a NES version guide:
"DO NOT ATTACK YOUR OWN PARTY MEMBERS
While it isn't obvious, EVA (evasion) is the utmost important stat in the game.
If EVA is low, the final dungeon becomes nightmare as many enemies there deals MHP ratio damage, dangerous debuff attacks, or insta-kill if it connects.
EVA won't grow if party member attacks each other, and more the HP and VIT the characters have, it seems, the harder it gets for EVA to grow."
Can you give a link to this specific guide?
The final dungeon and the evasion mechanic is hilarious.
The game gives you all this super heavy, super strong genji armor, but the problem is that defense just subtracts from the amount of damage, and armor drops your evasion like a rock.
The enemies in the final cave will do say 300 damage an attack.
If you have all the super heavy genji equip, the armor will absorb, say, 150 damage an attack - but the armor drops your evasion by 150%.
So with genji armor, the monsters will do ~ 150 dmg x 16 attacks = 2400 damage per attack.
Running naked through the dungeon, monsters will do about 300 dmg x 1~2 attacks = 300~600 damage per attack.
Having the armor equipped multiplies the incoming damage by 4x instead - even if you have relatively low evasion, just streaking through the last dungeon works well enough.
It is possible to grind evasion (e.g. dual wielding shields and letting enemies wail on you), but frankly just streaking through the final dungeon will be good enough for any normal player.
Grinding by hitting your own characters doesn't actually hurts you, but you can't beat the game just by doing that, you have to understand the system at least a little to finish the game.
Double shield op
@@veritron FFII RNG strikes again
@@veritronHonnestly attacking yourself is truly an overrated exploit, all it does is increase your HP and Stamina faster, but why do that when you can focus on increasing your Shield LV, and subsequently your Evasion to nullify most of the damage you receive ? On top of the other benefit Evasion gives, like acting first during the turn or Fleeing more reliably, if you just want to rush through the areas and/or the ennemy or of Low Rank and aren't worth fighting.
FF2 gets a lot of shit but the GBA version really improves on it, Dawn of Souls is the best version to play 1 and 2 unless you want the PSP bosses
I prefer the ps1 u get the extra cinematics lol
PSP version is the best, beautiful and hard like the gba version, new bosses and nice musics
FF Origins (PS1) is the earliest remake and best version, closest to the orinal.
@@ferrisdesousa1005 Meh. They changed everything, , too easy, hardly FF2 anymore
@@whplague Nah, the ps1 version is the worst, has slow loads. GBA > Ps1
Anyone attacking themselves to raise HP is being sub optimal. You only need to finish a battle with less HP than you statred with, so it's better to wait until you have Minwu and have him use "Swap" on each member to ensure that you don't accidently kill your party members, and so you don't waste time waiting for the enemies to attack each member.
Just play a better final fantasy game instead
@@frogglen6350imagine posting this when most people here rightfully defend 2
Or just play the game normally, like seriously the encounter rate is so stupidly high in this game, if you do most of the battle your main 3 will be extremely overlevel without any extra grinding needed or any of these dumb tricks people use.
The BEST advice I was ever given about this game, over the many years of playing it, was “if they’re in the front row, put a damn shield on.” You don’t have to grind HP if you can’t get hit to begin with. Love the video 👍
Oh, wow, someone actually going to bat for FFII!? Never thought I'd see the day! It's not my absolute favourite of the series (that honour goes to FFXI), but it's certainly up there, and it's definitely the best loose adaptation of _Labyrinth_ ever made!
(Plus, if you know how, the game's supposedly brutal difficulty can be snapped like a twig with just a little effort early on.)
FINALLY, SOME LOVE FOR THE FF MMO'S!
Only way I know how to snap the brutal difficulty is to cheese the exp system by attacking and canceling, or by attacking own party members to raise HP. Is there a different way?
@@acidwizard6528 - Indeed there is, and it's so much simpler. And all you need… is Minwu.
Once he joins the party, start levelling the Teleport spell by using it to leave Altair, then immediately re-enter (and also use the Cure spell to restore the massive chunks of HP it somehow costs, with nights at the inn to restore MP when necessary). Then, once it reaches about level 8, go to Fynn, save outside, and get in a fight with a Captain. Have Minwu cast Teleport and, provided the Captain doesn't slaughter him first, it should be an instant kill.
Once you have this pattern down, the Captains should start dropping powerful equipment like Gold Armour, Flame Bows, and most importantly, the Toad Tome. Have Maria (or whoever you want) learn Toad and start using it against the Captains to level it quickly, because it's what you'll be using in the same way as Teleport after Minwu leaves.
With your new equipment, you'll soon be able to survive the Captains' attacks, leading to quick HP boosts, with the Toads and Teleports bringing in steady MP increases.
Finally, once you have Toad and Teleport to Lv. 16, you've essentially won the game, because it's an instant kill in gameplay terms, and it works on just about every enemy in the game (even the final boss in the Famicom version!)
@@acidwizard6528 You can snap the brutal difficulty by using your brain and training your party in the old hard way, duh.
I beat this game before and back then I didn't know about spell cancel trick or rising stats by attacking friends. When you got Blood Sword, don't sell it. Also, don't travel too south from Altair or the game will count it as Mysidia (Bomb, Ghost, Vampirette etc)
@@YellowMage
or you can wander around the north of Fynn and hope to fight many Warlocks there. They are pain in the ass, but if you beat them, you can get Berserk tome and Mage's Staff. Equipped Minwu with Mage's Staff and cast Berserk, and he will be the strongest ass kicker in your party. Minwu actually one-shot Sergeant and Spiketoise in my gameplay.
Having experimented with the leveling system in the GBA version, I actually determined that a lot of the most repeated claims about the system are lacking in detail and explanation. For example, the reason why attacking yourself in front of weaker enemies seems to work so well is because part of the leveling system is designed to offer higher rewards for beating enemies that are stronger than you, while repeatedly one-shotting weaker enemies is likely to give you little to nothing. As such, attempting to level against weaker enemies requires the player to drag out the battle to get even a little experience, since you can overcome the issue of the enemies being weak by increasing the number of times an action is repeated.
I personally found the system to be highly engaging. In fact, in my case I'd get so invested in leveling one stat or another that I'd actually avoid advancing the story for a while. I enjoyed experimenting to figure out what was needed to level certain stats or skills. For example, I learned that it's almost impossible to level agility without a shield, or that having only some characters attack while others used support abilities can often level them faster, even if you alternate the roles each battle.
Also, in regards to magic obtained later in the game, the rate at which magic levels is based on the level of the spell and the "rank" of the enemy party. A level 1 spell will actually grow faster later in the game than it does earlier. If anything in fact, the fastest way to level a spell of any level is to find the strongest enemies you can find and cast the spell once per battle. So long as the enemies are ranked higher than the spell level, it'll grow faster the greater the difference is.
The biggest problem is the game doesn't explain any of this. If the system was more transparent it'd probably be regarded better.
There's actually some cool ideas in there, such as the first cast of a specific spell in a battle gives more spell XP, with diminishing returns for each subsequent cast. The game actively makes boring, grindy stuff less worthwhile.
@@rdrrr I suppose more of an explanation could have helped, mostly in the relation between stats and the specific conditions of experience. I can also imagine the original versions stat reducing system being a pain. In hindsight though I do wish they'd preserved more of the statistical influences of the various weapon types (staffs influencing spirit perhaps?), since as is weapons have little influence on character customization.
@@elliotlevy8610 Agree. I'm always a fan of weapons being more than just blocks of stats.
FF2's big problem IMO is that spells level too slowly. They all just give the same experience per cast. I'd probably have niche spells like Basuna and Aura give far more experience per cast than stuff you'll cast all the time like Fire and Cure.
@@rdrrr that's because it's a game from 1988
@@GiordanDiodato True, it's not unusual for games from that era to be obtuse as fuck. FF2 just has mechanics that are harder to intuitively grasp so it's more of a problem
What everybody fails to mention too, is that Magic Tomes aren't just for learning new spells. They can also be used as one time Level 8 cast of that ability. If you don't want to spend hours grinding out a spell, don't do it. Just buy a bunch of tomes of that spell and you'll be just fine.
Actual legend for that advice thanks
@@Honest_Mids_Masher no problem, it's really frustrating hearing about people having issues with how magic works in this game when a readily available solution exists.
@@EnbyLite I honestly have no issues with the magic system while I do run out of MP quickly throughout the dungeons I always stock up on elixirs anyways but a way to access boosted up magic is awesome
@@Honest_Mids_Masher Once you get osmose, where you go, you won't need any ethers. 😎
@@The_Gallowglass Yeah I realized just how good osmose was because I was building Leon like how he is in the Dissidia mobile game once I realized osmose made ethers pointless I just gave that to everyone.
It amuses me that this game gets such a bad wrap for the "hit characters to increase power" playstyle but, as far as I know, no one complains about the same strategy being used in Final Fantasy Tactics which uses the same exact strategy of "keep one enemy alive and then punch your team members until you think you've leveled enough".
people have double standards lol much like Chrono Trigger having the same must use characters of elemental weaknesses (lol color coded beasts better use Marle and Lucca, let alone permanent haste for Marle makes Magus a cakewalk, and Lavos messes with you, so you need haste helms as you won't have time to cast on everyone) that Final Fantasy 3 does with the jobs. th-cam.com/video/cDBBlvf2oME/w-d-xo.html
12:07 got it as you want to cast group magic to buff your spell and your party hp at once. I made a buncha guides let alone go to mysidia early to spam holy (before equipment like blood sword or soul of rebirth minwu ultima breaks it lol not in pixel remaster). It's inept and funny, just like throw stone in FFT, though this vid sucks as it's the worst for a normal perspective. Let alone undermines itself 14:00 by using normal attacks that target 1 person nearly killing them, as opposed to wimpy area of effect spells that hit the party at once to give hp buffs with minimal risk while buffing the spell (which takes forever, let alone you cast cure in battle to increase spirit).
Difference is two fold, one, you never have to do that in tactics (as a perception whether or nit reality in 2) and, there is effectively ONE thing to level in tactics, jp, (levels otherwise are normal).....it isn't hard to spread some love around jp, but to get the final magic in 2 to be worth it, takes an epic grind (speaking as someone who not only COMPLETED the x sphere grid.....twice...complelty on every character.....I freaking erased almost every spehere and made a rainbow pattern of it......twice (ps4/switch))....with max 99999 hp
Ones balanced and the other isn’t, it’s not a double standard. There are plenty of games that have the same mechanics but one does it significantly better than the other
@@MilkIsASauceTV FF fans will literally say fucking anything to make FF2 look bad.
There's literally a spot in FFT where people get stuck to the point they consider their game softlocked. lmfao
Meanwhile you can pretty much coast through FF2 from start to finish with no grinding at all. But FF2 is imbalanced? All right.
@@neonfatum I’ll give you that Belias is pretty unbalanced, but calling him a soft lock isn’t 100% true. He’s not impossible to beat, it’s just a really tough fight. People’s issue with the “soft lock” part is that they only save in 1 save file before this fight. It sucks that that happens, and obviously I wouldn’t say someone was stupid for doing this. But this is not the first video game in history to softlock someone because they saved at an in opportune location. I have gotten myself out of that situation before, it took some experimenting but I was able to strategize & figure it out.
I really don’t like II, but I’ll give it this: it does not have a softlock like this. I love Tactics because of its fucking amazing gameplay systems, and obviously Belias is a huge flaw that needs to be corrected should we ever get another release of this game.
One of my fave things to do in this game is seeing how many stat increases I could get in a single battle
Fr it was so satisfying
Really? Mine's b****slapping the Final Emperor with a punch attack because fists can become pretty broken... so much so, that if you max them out, they do more damage than weapons...🤣
But yeah, anytime I get it more than 1 or 2 stat gains in a battle, it's a good time.
@To Release is To Resolve ok greenhorn
Me too
@@shelbyherring92 one punch man build 😏
Some very good points raised here. The one thing that sticks out to me is the argument of "why do x if y is more effective?" Having options available that might not be the most optimal, but still viable, is part of the role playing experience in my book.
I've started II a couple times but never got around to finishing it. Definitely need to address that!
You now have 69 likes
96 now
@@ogeidnomar4601 just made it 100
it's ironic. Some of these same people *cough* Projared *cough* hate Final Fantasy XIII for completely the opposite reason they hate FFII, which is lack of character customization (which it does have, but only towards the end of the game).
"Players will optimize the fun out of a game" - Soren Johnson
This quote is more or less true depending on the game and the players it attracts. In the famously easy Kirby series balance barely matters in the first place, but in 4X strategy games (like the Civilization series that Soren worked on) it ABSOLUTELY needs to be accounted for so one "most optimal" strategy doesn't overshadow the rest of the game.
Saying that FF2 is bad because it gives you the option to exploit it is like saying the metro is bad because you have the option to throw yourself under the train
This was my first final fantasy experience. As a kid I learned I could cheese the leveling system but otherwise I found the story enriching, music very riveting, and combat system endearing. It is truly at its core final fantasy
Playing through it now seems good so far
The only thing I wish the game kept was if you're dual wielding and kill an enemy with the first hit, you'd hit another enemy. They took that out and both your weapons hit the same enemy, even if the first hit would kill it.
That and it would have been cool if Leila had steal, Ricard had jump, and Leon had a dark Knight ability. :D
Late to the party, but I'm glad someone's speaking up for the game. The freedom of leveling is probably why I've played it so much to see how broken I could be within the first 3 hours.
it's just pure fun! playing games is for fun, that's why i like FF2
The GBA version of the game is pretty damn good. I've played it a long time ago on my original GBA back when it came out and didn't like it but now I'm REALLY enjoying myself. The story isn't half bad (for the time the game was made) and the combat system is actually pretty enjoyable. You have to use a different mindset than with the other FF games tho.
The story, if you ask me, was way better than FF I, and maybe, also FF3 (being honest, the orfans weren't very expresive, the 3ds version, didn't improve that and the Crystal Tower was the worst part of the game).
FF2, it's a very niche game, that you need to have a very open mindset to love it (so, it's not for everyone). Curious, because, I was capable to finnish FF2, but not FF7 that with all his clunky minigames made me to ragequit the game before the famous death of Aeris (at this moment, I didn't care anymore)
Still, FF2 it's not in my top, that place belongs to FF4, maybe 6 too.
@@Frendluyou dont have to play the mini games and as a 10 year old i thought that was hella cool .. optional snow boarding etc
@@Frendlu tbf the DS version is very different from the Famicom/NES version.
Agree, of the NES titles this one has the best story, but IMO it has the worst music. The droning, dour scores just get to repetitive and annoying especially on the dreadnought. Also agree with 4 and 6 being top tier. This game has some good, but it it has far more bad.@@Frendlu
Just became a fan of this game with the pixel remaster release. I really liked it and while I understand a lot of the QoL and balance issues have massively improved the experience, people are still shitting on this version and I'm bewildered because it's awesome as hell.
Anyway definitely check it out if you haven't. The music, graphics, QoL features all make it so good!
That leveling system was ultimately mastered in the SaGa Frontier games, and honestly it's fine in the remakes of FFII. Now, the original on the NES, that was broken as hell. Real bad programming problems, so I understand the negative reaction that faced. But the rereleases from the PS1 onward? It's fine.
I feel like a lot of the hate for FFII is recycled from the NES version. They attach a lot of the NES issues to the remake even when they're not really there anymore, or at least not as much of an issue. They were told what to expect and reacted as the were told.
the system is worst in the nes version ? how ? (I only played the gba version)
@@theflashgordon193 It was very poorly balanced. Not just in how long it took for stats to rise from enemies attacking you and not using the self-harm exploit, but stats that opposed the one you were raising would decrease. So if your strength increased by one, there was a (high) chance INT would decrease.
Bollocks. the NES version is fine.
You need to understand how the stats/mechanics work. Look up gamecorner guides and read the mechanics breakdown of the game there.
The "exploits" you mentioned are not intrusive in your gameplay at all, and are there if you want to use them. You don't have to, just like the video says. The NES version is much harder, and my only complaint of it are the long dungeons without the option to save. Getting wiped by a boss can be frustrating, as you have to do the entire dungeon again, but this is a moot point since no NES FF had in-dungeon savepoints anyway so it just comes with the territory.
FF2 is challenging, nintendo-hard RPG with a huge payoff once your party grows into the roles you assigned them at the beginning of the game.
If a monster is kicking your ass with physical attacks, the ancient sword works wonders, as you can inflict the CURSE status on almost anything.
@@rufrox9947 We'll agree to disagree.
@@muthesquirrel Sure, but I wouldn't say poor design is a fair objection to the game. Understanding the mechanics is key to appreciating it.
lol I literally finished ff2 today and was looking for videos for it that don't shit on it. Thanks for this pal. I had lots of fun with the game.
Thanks for watching!
I found a few positive reviews of the game while researching, most of them are buried in the search results unfortunately. I'm sure there are more but these two videos are what come to mind.
th-cam.com/video/KdgfLRQOQxU/w-d-xo.html - Review Roulette: Final Fantasy 2
th-cam.com/video/BOG814YVovU/w-d-xo.html - Final Fantasy II Reflection (Buzz Review)
There are also a few unbiased reviews that highlight both strengths and weaknesses, like Xygor Gaming and Resonant Arc's reviews.
I'll be honest final fantasy was not as bad as I heard before playing. I actually really enjoyed the game.
Final Fantasy 6 is better
ff2 is one of my favorite rpgs.
I do see it for its flaws too, but I'm doing a run with no hitting yourself grinding.
normal grinding is still on the table
I only do it if I want a party member to increase in health
1:18 “While other companies would expand on the mechanics of the first title.....”
Not in the NES days. Back then, the part 2 of a lot of games were hugely different than their initial game and went back to the style of the first game when they made a part 3. Final Fantasy II, Super Mario Bros. 2, Zelda 2, Castlevania 2 to name a few. I think it was a thing back then to try and make a completely different game with the second iteration but a lot of these companies realized that instead of making something completely new, they should focus on making the first one better and more refined. An interesting and confusing era for video games.
Probably another reason why companies do that is to play it safe, since developing is harder these days and making a completely new idea is more risky for them. I kinda miss the experimental era but at the same time at least I know what I’m getting
Technically super mario bros 2 did expand on its original design. The real super mario bros 2 is the lost levels. In north America we technically got a reskin of doki doki panic
minus Megaman 2
@@ryumaster more like made it extremely frustrating
I finished the game 2 times before even knowing i could break the game attacking myself. The game is not grindy at all. It's the general opinion that people run with without even experiencing the game themselves.
This was one of my first final fantasy games when I was in middle school, I loved playing it! I didn't know about all the exploits or anything that people say to criticize it so I cant really recognize it as major talking point if people could play the entire game without even knowing about it. This was also before there was online game shops built into the consoles, so I didn't have preset expectations. I miss that period of time of being able to go into an experience completely fresh with little to no idea of what to expect and end up loving the experience at the end
I love final fantasy 2 man! Its refreshing for me to have someone like it too!!! Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching! Yeah, the game definitely needs more love.
I love FF2. I find that the unique leveling system makes it one of the most replayable games out there. I can restart the game and make completely different builds for each of the characters. Even make some of the most memey builds like a double shield Guy who's a dodge tank.
Indeed. It feels like it has endless replayability and customization
Want Guy to be your Black Mage? Go right ahead!
Want Maria to be a dual-ax wielding amazon? Sure, why not.
Want Firion to be a knife-wielding thief? You can do that. only wish Steal was a thing in this game
The psp has the same added features of the gba and slightly more
God, imagine if a modern RPG like Skyrim had such an awful mechanic as having you level up magic by casting spells all the time! PEOPLE WOULD HATE IT!
The things I did to increase skills in that game were beyond ridiculous. Casting "Soul Trap" on a dead goat over and over. Letting a giant wail on me endlessly while I just stood there to increase my armor skill. Beating a dragon to within an inch of its life, only to heal it back to full and continue the beating. Resetting my Stealth, Pickpocket, Lockpicking, etc., over and over just to I could earn more perk points by leveling up...
But the important distinction is, you don't need to be this crazy to progress through Skyrim in a normal fashion. I was just doing this because I could, and you can be incredibly overpowered without doing any of the silly things I did. Another point which is just as important is that I freaking love Skyrim and already was having a blast before "grinding" anything. I can't say that for Final Fantasy II.
@@0Fyrebrand0 You may not like FF2 as a matter of preference but you're just as capable of progressing without attacking yourself 500 times. Granted a game from the 1980s isn't as polished as a game from the 2010s but it's perfectly playable.
@@0Fyrebrand0 For me I had few games where grinding was as fun as in FF II, but than again I played the Playstation remake, not the original version.
Just because open world fags will put up with garbage mechanics like that doesn't mean everyone else will. JRPG connoisseurs have standards.
same with Tactis Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics... Also yeah FF2 is a very old "OPEN-WORLD" game, you can sequence break and go to towns your not supposed to go to if you want and thats pretty fun.
Hah, I beat that ages ago on PSP, loved it. I didn't level up by hitting myself, I was minimalist.
@Weston Meyer ye but some powerspikes in difficulty where really REAAAAAALLY off putting. The first time on the dreadnaught area or myssidia tower made me wanna kill myself so much. I thought it was impossible, then I realised that the levels scale according to enemy fought (I think but im still not super sure on that one) so it wasnt all that painfull, I could see my characters adapting, and I love the whole "adaptation" factor this game has to offer. But when it comes to Missidia tower this place still makes me wanna Kill myself because of those stupid fucking imps!!!
@@necroplastful there's also enemies that do damage according to certain stats.
I agree. I love the dialogue system in this game and should be standard for any RPG (Why wouldn't there be a keyword based dialogue when talking to new NPCs from a place you have never been on?).
Another thing I really love about FF2 is the art. You can clearly tell it was Amano's favorite to work on up until 6, he made so many illustrations of Firion that it's ridiculous.
It seemed like a prototype to the multiple choice/route in today's games.
@@pol610 Probably, but the devs didn't have time to implement it.
The prototype to multiple endings in Japanese-styled RPGs likely started with Langrisser.
I just beat this game, the nes version, and while I can appreciate this video (and gave it a thumbs up) I found the game painfully tedious, and not just because of the grind. The story is alright for its time, as is the music, but I was having the opposite of fun beating it, and that was because of the dungeons. The door room traps are agonizing imo.
Though I do get a kick out of how absolutely op the toad spell (if leveled) is. I also imagine the version you played was more entertaining in general.
The NES version is the most tedious version. It's way better on the ps1. I'm in the middle of a playthrough on the NES version, just after getting the ultima spell
yeah I don't recommend the original/PS1 versions because they're only for masochists
go for the later versions.
Teleport is also broken, at lv.16 there are like less than 10 enemies who won’t be instantly killed by it. And toad is even better in the later versions because at lv.16 you can win some of the best weapons and armour from a secret mini game.
Teleport is also broken, at lv.16 there are like less than 10 enemies who won’t be instantly killed by it. And toad is even better in the later versions because at lv.16 you can win some of the best weapons and armour from a secret mini game.
Why doesn't this have more views? You obviously put a lot of work into this. It's impressive how efficiently the algorithm shafts ya
Actually, this has been getting a lot more views since mid-December. Back then it had about 350 views, so I'm thankful that it's been getting traction!
Thanks for watching and for the kind words. I appreciate it!
I would say it's becouse every good point he makes is juxtapposed by poorly thought out strawman arguments.
It kicked in
Came back to this again and even in spite of your thoughts on the video looking back I rewatched it when XVI's release restarted my series binge lol. Played VI and found myself wishing a little bit that all the actions I did boosted that action a tiny bit
Damn, never realised you could attack your own party members for HP increases.
Hell, I just roleplayed my three guys and had a blast, didn't even grind until the very end just to be sure.
edit : Had to say that a lot of the "issues" with 2 were also "issues" with 8 as regards customisation and game breaking through grinding (to get cards)
My playthrough was pretty much the same. I just set "classes" in my head for each party member and focused on the relevant stats for each. I grinded for about the last quarter of the game, I think. I honestly didn't know people hated the leveling system so much until recently.
Aye. Its called prioritizing. Everyone got basic healing spells and then from there I organized and used the row system for preferences. Guy at the front being my Knight, the girl being my archer and mage, our brave guy being my paladin.
I am looking for builds for my party
yes but VIII's is WAY more exploitable, especially since you can, quite literally, use an enemy's magic attacks against themselves.
I actually softlocked myself early in the game. Im.a grinder. And well, I got my evasion rate so high playing rope-a-dope with dual shields and kept Mingwu trying to steal spells from Warlocks. At around 150-300 hp per character, I got in this one battle casting all protective spells -- blink, barrier, faze...etc, and this is what happened: 1.) I couldn't run 2.) I only had shields so I could only use magic so it encouraged the game to soft locked me 3.) Only Mingwu could hit and do maybe 5 damage points to an enemy making battles super long 4.) Since my evasion tate was so darn high, I kept missing the enemy with Mingwu being my only guy who could do damage when party's MP ran out 5.) I couldn't hit myself to kill all the characters 6.) Couldn't flee.
But why oh why did I attempt such a foolhardy mission? 1.) Steal spells so I wouldn't have to buy every spell, before Mingwu leaves the party the 1st time 2.).Raise MP and magic levels and shields/evasion at the same time. But why did you try to softlock yourself? 1.) I wasn't 2.).I misjudged use of MP and tried to see if I could beat up purple flamingos and ogre mages near fynn and ran out of MP placing me in a no-due scenario with even with 300 HP each the enemies were missing me constantly and I couldn't flee. I couldn't even beat myself up. So I had to reload a save since after 53 times trying to run away, it was impossible. Even Deadringers were missing, when most of the time they can 1 shot a character who only has 300 HP. But apparently, even the dead ringer couldn't hit me.
Why was I even doing this? I just told you why. Any further justification? Becoming an all powerful dude just like any other RPG, exploiting mingwu's abilities early in the game right befure he leaves the party. It's my grinding technique. Go to a block were there are hard enemies near Finn and walk left until you hit a hard enemy, but make sure you are only 3 or 4 blocks way from easy enemies..
I love the level up system. Start the skill you wanna use, more you use -> more u do damage and get good at. It's like real life. You decide what weapons and magic you want for each member in the party to use for the journey. This concept is where FF job classes kinda started to take root, because you could always change your characters equipment and give new spells. Even if they have to start from the ground and do terrible damage with their new gear, it kinda make sense anyway? You can't just give someone a different weapon type and expect they do great damage, because they have to learn how to use them first! I even use this philosophy for myself when I wanna get good at things in real life, like drawing, cooking, reading a new language etc.
Just beat the game, really hated it but totally understand your points. Extremely entertaining video felt like 5 mins watching it, keep up the spectacular work!
Thanks, means a lot!
I like grinding, maybe even more than you do, but when I'm given too many stats to grind all at the same time - I'm likely to burn out before finishing the game. Even if I'm not required to grind all of them, I'd feel bad for skipping some.
To me, the best example within FF series in optional grinding is FFVIII (my fav), where you're not at all required to grind (aside *maybe* for the very last boss) but the grind ceiling you're given, with all the crafting in mind, is stellar. I've had a run where I set out to grind my way into a full theoretically-attainable stack of every item, magic, card, stat, etc. and I spent about a week of playtime on the very first tiny island and, predictably, burnt out before its bounty withered out.
Now I'm wondering if fully grinding out FFII will take less effort than that. Maybe I should in fact give it a shot.
grinding for the sake of grinding is boring, especially when you grind to raise a stat only to have another counterbalanced stat decrease. so in the end, you were funneled into choosing "do I grind a warrior or a mage" and that itself is boring. it was slightly changed in all the remakes but thats where the real hate for the game began.
FF VII had interesting grinding, the crashed sunken plane could be used to grind permanent stat bonus items, but was entirerly optional, since max level was overpowered anyway. I grinded a lot to make half the party better than Cloud.
Level up system in FF8 sucks and thats one of the reasons why is my least favorite of all. It goes agains the bases of a RPG. Level up should be a good thing. But level up in FF8 makes you weaker.
The best example of grinding in the franchise is FF1 in GBA and PSP and only because is not tedious and level up makes a difference.
has NO ONE though of hitting your teammates as sparring? It makes total sense and hos no reason to be considered out of the ordinary.
I would have liked the ability to fight with your party in a less obtuse way but I agree. That's exactly how I thought of it too. I can't think of any game that actually offers a sparring function
First off, thanks for making this video. 2 is not my favorite game in the series (that would be 4) but I think it deserves some recognition for what it DOES do, which is give players more freedom, and provides a surprisingly detailed story that really tries to sell you on the stakes of what happens- The Empire in this game is NOT a joke or a vague threat. Towns you visit get decimated later in the game, either from the Empire's warship, or the Emperor's Tornado, and it's kind of sobering to see that. There's also the fact that, due to the extra characters, the game has a high mortality rate to it, which can also help sell the notion that you _are_ the underdogs fighting a much more powerful, much more dangerous enemy.
That aside, the point you brought up about weapon choices bears a point of mention- your weapon choices function as a part of your overall build. While your weapons don't increase your stats directly like in later games, each weapon still has advantages and disadvantages; if you want to make a dedicated mage, you're going to want to equip them with a staff, as staves have the lowest magic accuracy penalty (okay, knives also have the same magical accuracy penalty, but they have lower damage, even though they have a higher accuracy.) If you want to equip them with a shield, you're probably better off giving them an axe in their main hand, as axes have the highest damage output in the game, barring special swords like the Exaclibur or the Masamune.
2 is NOT a perfect game, by any stretch of the imagination. The encounter rate is high, the dungeons can be frustrating, and the stat system takes a bit of getting used to. But I don't think it's a bad game either, and it has more than its fair share of merits. And I've seen a lot of people for a long time say it's a terrible game, let alone a terrible Final Fantasy, so it's nice to see that not everyone shares this opinion.
"Why do I get the feeling that we're doing this to ourselves?"
This is a complicated issue in game design. The classic saying is, "if given the chance, players WILL optimize the fun out of the game." This is definitely an example of that. Game design isn't just manipulating mechanics to make a fun experience, it's also manipulating the PLAYER into not using those mechanics in a way that will ruin their experience. FF2 didn't do the best job at the latter in this case.
its weird this game is called the worst just for its leveling when the worst case of leveling in any game, oblivion, is a masterpiece unmatched in its greatness
solid arguments, respectful AND educational....wow this review was amazing dude. also, ff2 was my first ever FF game....and yet I still didnt mind this game at all, in fact I love it a lot
This is an excellent defense of a completely fine JRPG that everyone shits on.
I'll be honest. I really do enjoy FF2. Is it the best? No. Is it horrible? Also no. The problem lies in nobody really gave it a chance. It has a great story, and I feel if the way character growth is handled was improved or even changed to how it is traditionally, it'd be much more well received.
I really like this game. Glad someone else gives a voice of reason. If you don't abuse the leveling system, it's a great game.
Edit: by abuse, I mean the glitch there you just select an action, and then undo it incessantly. May have been fixed since the NES version though.
Edit 2: The ultima spell at level 16 is terrible. The programmer meant for it to be that way because "sometimes, when you work hard for something, you get nothing" (paraphrased)
yeah that programmer is the ultimate moron
The reasoning was ultima is an ancient technology, and technology should get better over time not worse. So ultima was once the pinnacle of magic, but over time even beginners magic (ie fire and ice etc) are stronger. Also to prevent his damage formula from being removed the programmer locked the formula with random pieces of the game when he locked it so even if they just tried removing the formula and replace it with there own it would break the game.
Also the new formula based its attack on the total level of every spell you have marking it nearly as useless
Not a “voice of reason” just because you agree with it.
@@yellowgreymorals well most people bash the game like its superman 64, so someone saying the game has flaws but I dont think it's as bad as most people will make it out to be, makes him the voice of reason.
I hate how everybody says “half the game is attacking yourself” like you never even need to do that 🤦 your HP levels at a steady pace while playing through the game because you fight stronger enemies as the game progresses
Yeah its massive misinformation. Once i beat FF2 i will make a review on that one. Its ridiculous how nobody is catching up to that
Hating on ff2 comes from sheep mentality in ff community. Most ignore ff2 contribution to square’s story telling which is crucial for 4,6 & 7
Any time I've played FFII, I'd grind maybe an hour in the beginning, and then played normally, because I would gain stats pretty quickly. The added HP at the beginning of the game is nice, but even that isn't necessary.
Final Fantasy II is an incredibly interesting game to me. Initially, I was kinda put off from it, myself, sorta tacitly accepting common criticisms of it as facts that made the game intrinsically terrible. I think I broadly agree with you, actually, regarding the simultaneous validity and subjectivity of the flak the game gets.
I think that Final Fantasy II, more than any other game in the series and more than just about any other RPG I've played, is a game that very much needs to be met on its own terms, for the player to take an interest in learning how it works and how to effectively engage with its systems. Most criticisms of it I'm aware of are issues that I feel likely crop up as a result of people trying to play it the same way they'd play a more conventional RPG, and getting increasingly-frustrated by the resistance the game puts up to their attempts to force that to work.
I think "grinding" is a big example of this. The game is actually WAY smarter about how it balances this than... frankly, ANYBODY really gives it credit for, because it does such a bad job of conveying to the player what all actually goes into calculating whether or not a stat will increase or how much weapon or magic proficiency you gain. There are two big factors here; one I know to be present in all versions, and one I'm not entirely sure if the remakes kept:
Firstly, enemies actually have an internal "Rank" stat that reflects how powerful they are; think of it like an adaptation of the concept of different enemies having different EXP yields. I'm not entirely sure how the calculation works for stats (I'm almost certain Rank is still incorporated into it), but I know that a character's proficiency in a weapon type or spell is compared to the Ranks of the enemies you're fighting to determine how much experience is gained. The effect is you'll get stronger faster, and underleveled spells and weapon types will also catch up faster, if you're fighting enemies at around your strength level, and faster still if you're fighting enemies that are stronger than you.
Secondly, a big thing that contributes to how grindy the NES original is seen as being is that the game actually has a "diminishing returns" mechanic set up specifically to PREVENT leveling up proficiencies a whole bunch in just one battle. Each subsequent use of at least spells within a single battle yields less EXP than the last, and I'm pretty sure the formula DOES allow this to reach zero per use past a certain point. So, the most effective way to level up at least spells is to use them once or twice in each battle versus enemies around your strength level (or higher, if you're up to it), then beat those enemies and move on. I'm not sure how much this was carried over into the remakes, and it's a little tougher to easily measure since remakes replaced the NES version's numerical proficiency experience display with a gauge display, but if it is present, I'm fairly certain its impact has been reduced at least somewhat.
In regards to the "hitting yourself" thing, I didn't notice this as much in the NES original, but at least as of the GBA version, the game will sometimes just hand out HP bonuses every so often without even requiring that your party be hit, presumably to address the exact issue of "needing" to do that in order to build up your party's HP. Really, I find that the only time just spamming Attack in battle for leveling purposes is really useful is for increasing Shield proficiency, which goes up REALLY fast when a character is dual-wielding Shields (probably since Shield EXP yields are balanced around attacking with just one equipped, in a character's off hand) so it really doesn't take long doing this at all until you're good to go on Shield levels. Plus, as seen in that speedrun footage, attacking with two Shields equipped doesn't ACTUALLY attack; characters just do a little hop-dance with their shields that the game counts as an attack for the purposes of distributing Shield proficiency experience. Ergo, that plus the massive evasion bonus you get from two shields means the healing woes of beating up your own party won't be an issue.
I also feel it warrants mentioning that, much like almost every other RPG I'm aware of, Final Fantasy II's endgame is NOT balanced around a maxed-out party or anything close to it. It's okay that you're not going to be getting your spells or weapon ranks up to super high levels, for example. I don't think ANY of my characters' spells broke double digits in level by the time I beat the game in either of my playthroughs, and I was fine. Those higher levels are something you CAN go for if you want to, but they're really only good for showing off and the game is COMPLETELY beatable without coming close to reaching them.
Sorry for writing a whole essay in the comments here; Final Fantasy II is just a game that's REALLY grown on me recently. It IS definitely an acquired taste, I think, but it's one I don't regret acquiring one bit. In some ways, it changed how I approach RPGs when I play them, and I actually have a lot more fun with them with that new approach. It got me to consider strategies like changing equipment mid-battle, for example; something that can be TREMENDOUSLY-useful in Final Fantasies II through V. Swapping out a character's weapons for a pair of shields when they need to go on the defensive, or swapping in elemental weapons to take advantage of an enemy's weakness. Figuring out that Scholars and Rangers can be used essentially like proto-Mystic Knights via this strategy in Final Fantasy III was one of the highlights of that playthrough for me, and it felt really good to find that those same tactics carry over pretty nicely into Final Fantasy V, too. Giving Final Fantasy II an honest chance, really trying to meet it on its own terms and properly experience its merits, genuinely broadened my horizons in terms of how RPGs can be played and structured, and its development team has my wholehearted thanks for that. Plus, it's just so ambitious and earnest that I can't bring myself to dislike it, however messy the finished product may be. And yes, this even goes for the NES original.
if you want to drag battles on through grinding you can always just equip 2 shields since you can change equipment mid battle.
The game only levels up what you have equipped at the end of the battle so you can spam attacking with shields (Which does nothing)
And before the last monster runs away just equip back whatever you want to grind,Its really useful for leveling up weapon ranks.
I just got into the series last week. I decided to play chronologically and since I'm currently playing II right now and already have a few hours in, I can very confidently say that I not only think it's a great game but also that it's much better than its predecessor.
The story is just so interesting, I was not expecting melancholy and legitimate heartfelt moments in an 80s JRPG, and I couldn't be happier about it.
None of those things happened in the original NES game, loll. It wasn't anywhere near that deep
Hope you liked the finale dungeon, I think it's one of the highlights of rpg gaming as a whole, what a trip.
@@dopaminecloud almost a year later, I got quite a few Final Fantasy games under my belt already. From 1 to 5 and 8, 12 and 15. And I sincerely don't remember Final Fantasy II's middle game that fondly. The final dungeon's concept of hell was not as captivating as Ultimecia Castle from VIII in my opinion. Like, the middle game was very, very apathetic, the more pointless dungeons and overwhelming power scale from my party's end I had to go through (I started the game wanting to make Firion this ultimate ice mage, ended up not even getting Blizzard to level 15 and I spammed it :c), the less engaged I was in the story.
I like II, it's a top 5 for me, but only because of the early game. The final dungeon itself wouldn't be that amazing since it doesn't do anything remarkable from a narrative standpoint, but it was even less impactful because of how mundane and unappealing what came before it was.
@@fillerbunnyninjashark271 it can't be that much simpler, and even if it is I doubt the GBA remake changed the original's essence. For an 80s nintendo game, I think Final Fantasy II was ahead of its time and a pioneer in story-telling in videogames, not unlike what I feel with the likes of The Last of Us.
One could argue that IV did it better, but IV had the hardware advantage and personally I think the DS remake adds immensely to the story with its epic cutscenes and surprisingly good voice acting and cinematography. It's an unfair comparison.
@@vondervent Ah, weak. The dungeon is so well paced too. It's a shame you got your head in the wrong space.
People complain about the best way to level yourself is attacking your party. It's so horrible, but fft is everyone's fave and it the same way throw stone your party to fast level your party and no one says anything about it.
I've never understood why people think being able to exploit the game is a bad thing. I mean, for me that's the biggest plus of Final Fantasy 2.
Yeah, and is no like other games in the franchise dont have that.
the thing is you dont have to exploit it. Its something nerds online says, the same people who think guarding 5/10 times in FF3 is complicit for fun rather than bad body odor. Rather than slashing Dragons to level up your class which is probably what game developers had in mind when designing that game. Either case, all you have to do is "have atleast 300 HP of your party, level up your weapons and magic to level 4" where you usually buy it at the place before going on Josef mission". Any spell you think you need, Esuna and such. Its also good because you will increase MP which you need in the game. And getting too high HP will mean it will be expensive meaning it will be unfun. So dont do that. Enemies will bash you higher so thats it really. You just cut through the game with scars and fighting skills and you win!
In oblivion you CAN run at the wall for 2 hours to become GOD OF SPEED.
It doesn't mean you SHOULD
FINALLY!! I found a video that doesn't just hate on the game! I get it. The game is not perfect, but most games aren't perfect. I played this game on GBA in middle school and had a blast, after I figured out where to go in the beginning. I loved the storyline and the soundtrack is really good! I understand being critical of a game, but this game gets a level of furious hatred that I can't comprehend. Many RPG's have grinding flaws and skate by unscathed. I love FFII and am tired of video after video tearing it to shreds. I played the game normally with no issues, loved seeing the stat increases after every battle, and enjoyed leveling up all the spells.
to be honest, the Ultima spell in this game has it's damage based on the average level of your weapon skills, 6 primary stats and spell levels. If you put it on a character with all weapon skills at level 16 and at least 50+ in most of the 6 primary stat, one of them being spirit (it's a white magic spell) then it will do 400 to 500 damage at level 1. I have personally tested this myself, despite knowing ahead of time it would cost me countless hours of grinding. I too like this game but I normally grind more of the early spells into overpoweredness so that even though I use strategy where it's more useful, I know it will one-hit most of the trash mobs that you encounter.
I grew up with this game and loved it, I feel really upset when I see people bash on it.
So, in a brief way to say, the one's that critizice FF II is because they didn't understand it :)
p.s. I love more the original NES and the PSP remake: somehow they don't get the same love as the GBA remake.. but well, not a big deal either :)
they criticize it _because_ they understand it. it was poorly balanced, has systems that were failed experiments for a reason and the leveling was just dull and boring. if you like it, more power to you but dont pretend like its some misunderstood masterpiece that only those with 'the know' can understand.
To have information (or even "knowledge"), about something does not imply to understand the whole possibilities of value of it.
Had me until the end! Soul of Rebirth was one of the best parts of it, and it really rewards you for thinking ahead with some of the guest characters. I enjoyed that aspect immensely and wish that more games did things like it.
Soul of rebirth has one flaw: the dingeon design is just like the OG game.
@@leargamma4912 And it's grind heavy. I liked it though. Can't figure the ending out though.
I'm convinced there is not a single bad Final Fantasy game. This time last year I forced myself to play through XIII, and once you down to the final three chapters of the game, it really opens up. And I loved the shit out of Final Fantasy II on Dawn of Souls.
I played the NES version for the first time recently and I honestly loved it. The worldbuilding and music are outstanding for an NES title, the soundtrack and mood seems a lot darker compared to the regular happy go lucky Final Fantasy faire and the keyword system, while underutilized, served its purpose well. One example that sticks out to me there is saying "Wild Rose" to the entry guard on the warship as a joke and him actually recognizing the term and attacking me for it! I could really immerse myself in the world of 2 which I can't say for 1 or 3.
(Spoilers for the ending below, please don't read unless you've finished FF2.)
Also having a party member that on his own accord sided with the empire, not because they became corrupted with some magic or mind-controlled, but because they got a taste of power and couldn't let go to the point where they would kill their own childhood friends and their own sibling to keep it really struck me too. Again, the writing is very simplistic but the themes are so much deeper than you'd expect from such an old game. People aren't giving it enough credit.
The cool thing about Ultima, at least when it works as intended, is that it's power is based off of all your other spells levels
I am playing the PSP version now......and it's great
I thinl the Pixel Remaster actually make 2 good changes :
-The game now track how many HP/MP you lose during in battle, instead of just doing a Max HP - Current HP to determine so you can now heal in battle without penalty.
-The EXP needed to LVUP spells and weapon skill is reduce at least for the first LV.
These are 2 good changes, sadly Square didn't went the full way, with these the game doesn't need to the stupidly high encounter rate, but they kept the stupidly high encounter rate, they could have at least halved the encounter rate and this would have been great, sadly there's so many battle that you can just being overpowered without any exploit or extra grinding.
The gba version of ff2 might be my favorite or second favorite final fantasy game period
Also soul of rebirth was a fun little side story. It was really short but a neat way to interact with some characters that died along the way
In my opinion FF2 is a good game, the only reason it was not well liked is because of how new it's leveling system was, to many it was a new thing that was not well explained or used at the time, however that doesn't mean it was bad. Yes the game could be a bit of a grind at time but so was FF1, not to mention that the leveling system would be used in multiple different games and spin-offs that people end up enjoying, i think it was just a case of to new to soon. (Note, the only reason I described it as a grind is because I had a bad habit of rushing ahead instead of trying to up my stats.)
Thank you for this. I have personally considered II to be one of my absolute favorites. I played it as a child in horribly-translated English and absolutely adored it. Also the leveling system, while unusual, didn’t bother me at all. I think people just hate it because it’s different.
I just beat this 2 weeks ago and I NEVER attacked my own party. Gamers just don't have patience for anything.
Ff2 is one of my favourites. I'm really happy to see someone highlighting it's good points!
I like this game more than FF1
Because back in FF1 there was hardly any dialog and you needed someone, something or even the manual just to get somewhere
This game is not as bad with that and honestly once you pick up Mythril items it's easier to not die
This video is what finally convinced me to play through FF2 (the PSP version). I really enjoyed it! The grinding was actually pretty interesting. After the first dungeon I noticed Firion ran out of MP way too fast for him to be a paladin like I wanted. So I decided to grind for MP and magic. After only TWO BATTLES focusing on white magic his MP tripled from 16 to 48! It took all of 5 minutes and he was back on the path I wanted him on.
I realized that the world map is perfect for grinding and leveling, and dungeons are where you put your training to the test. If you use equipment and white magic wisely, I promise you never have to grind for HP. Whenever a new character joined the party, their HP was around the same as my other characters, so I figured I was where the developers expected. I didn't get a single game over (though there were close calls), and I beat the game with each character around 1900 HP.
You just gotta pick your battles in dungeons. There are some battles and enemy types you just can't run from, but you learn those. I always ran anytime I saw a vampire girl or Death Rider. They just weren't worth the resources. The boss fights were a fun challenge and really tested my team synergy. Overall, I think 2 is a really great game, on par with FF1. (Also Soul of Rebirth was really fun)
I didn’t know some people hated it that much. My first run was good, but my second run I screwed up and got stuck dealing with the walking dungeon with no way of escaping safely.
Bravo for having a mind of your own:) That's all that is required to see how beautiful Final Fantasy II is. Thanks for making this. I think it is well-crafted and genuine.
Thanks for the kind words :) I appreciate it!
I feel the same way about XIII. (As a standalone experience.)
The Pixel Remaster has so many quality of life improvements that I honestly can't see a reason for hate anymore. Keywords are colour coded. Stats no longer go down when you train others. When you think about it, the game was a pioneer. Just look at The Elder Scrolls.
FFXIII is a great game.
When I first played FF it was explorers. A very customisable game from what you want and very much like ff2. Why it's still my favorite is because I always try something. My favorite one I still play on is a BEEFY Paliden with the best heal, that swirl with combo, and two other attacks with Mp and hp drain. I love that! My favorite non-ff games are 7th Dragon and Etraian games. Hard but fun games. My friend who is more into Jrpg say that I have a certain look at games like this. "Head slightly raised," he describes it. I just like tough and customizable things in Rpgs. He said I should play the elder scrolls games but I don't have much money so I do emulate. But one day I will buy the games I spent so many hours into. My experience anyways, what's yours?
I completed FF2 on GBA twice and never, ever, had to attack myself.
I also never felt like I had to grind massively. If you ask me the evolution on your characters felt A LOT more natural than most of the other main series games.
I actually have fond memories of this games. Hell im still playing this game. I experiment and try out different builds.
I like themes and every situation usually have a solution.
My only complaint honestly was just the abundance of Monster trap rooms. Sure you know what I mean. Walk in and your already a few steps in and it takes 3 steps to get out but the monster rate is 1 step high.
(Part of video addressing it plays)
...oh ...ok good you do.
I think it was on purpose to trick you into grinding without grinding. At least give me money or treasure for my trouble.
Jesus I first watched this 3 years ago?
It's my most favorite review since I'm still listening over and over... also helps this is a personal favorite game of mine.
Who even needs to grind in this game? Im playing it for the first time and have exp-gain on 0.5 and I don’t think that its that hard.
Instead of grinding people should more often change Equipment and the strategy - Thats more rewarding than running around in circles for an hour
I played this game and while yes, the world can be a bit too open and the leveling was a bit grindy (especially MP) I enjoyed it. I like that you can customize your own team and make them how you want
Edit:I played the NES version, still found it fun and even while attacking myself, and still had a challenging time
Edit2: 29:51 Yeah, I thought that too
People act like FF2 has this weird leveling up system, but it's the system used in the Elder Scrolls series. The thing that people complain about, hitting yourself over and over to get HP, isn't really how your supposed to play the game. Evasion is much more important than HP, and maxing HP is a trap since late game enemies do damage base off your max hp. Once you learn how to grind, the grinding is much more interesting than any other grind in Final Fantasy; because it's not mindless pressing the A button, you have to make choices on which spells you want to update and on the enemy to target. Also seeing all your skills level up in a single battle is very satisfying. But the kicker is, you barely have to grind, because of teleport and warp will one shot most bosses and almost all Mobs. But it plays differently and you're natural FF instincts work against you. It's a different kind of cheese.
Had your video in my recommended ones today. To be honest, I enjoyed EVERY single game of the series quite a lot. Sure, I liked some more than others, but for me personally, there is no bad Final Fantasy. I'm actually pretty glad that you talked about the game from an objective point of view. People normally are influenced too much by comparing FF2 to other titles of the series. That's just my personal two cents. I hope you and everyone else is healthy during this time!
Beside stating that you have to grind "for every RPG ever", I think your point on how you will NATURALLY level up things without having to grind is very solid.
It would be interesting to see a version of this game where using a spell like Poison would level up a general Black Magic trait, instead of just that one spell. The way leveling up magic works in Elder Scrolls.
I didn' t play FF2 yet, but I' m open minded. FF13 is my favourite and before I bought it, I watched some videos that were negative. The game looked interesting, so I just bought it and I don't regret it.
I always liked The Emperor in DFF/DDFF, was wondering if the FF2 remakes were good, prolly gonna play it now
I suggest the GBA, PSP, or Mobile remakes
the PS1 remake is based on the original Famicom's difficulty, which I only recommend if you're a masochist
@@GiordanDiodato yeah I heard the Famicom version is pretty.... strange in some design decisions.
@@QuantemDeconstructor they actually fixed that odd design choice in the PS1 version, but kept the original difficulty.
Like potions are 1000 gil or something
@@GiordanDiodato wowie
@@QuantemDeconstructor correction, Potions are actually 50 instead of 30 gil
it's different healing items (like eyedrops) that are over 1000 gil
It baffles me that people will talk about how bad Final Fantasy II when Final Fantasy XIII stripped out exploration, side-quests, mini games, non-human party members, combat depth, and told the story so poorly that you had to stop playing and read menus to get any sort of idea what's even going on. II isn't my favorite either, but it was one of my most played PSP games.
Do these people not know what sparring is? Did these people not watch or like Dragon Ball Z? "WHY IS PICCOLO HITTING GOHAN!?" It's called sparring. It was a bit rough in FFII, but the mechanics are sound and it's a thing people do in the real world. You practice hitting to hit harder, you practice taking hits to take hits more efficiently, you practice casting to cast more efficiently.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I do have an uncommon affection for this game and like it much better than III, V, and I'm willing to go as far to say I kind of like it better than VII in some respects. The leveling system has a very DnDesque charm to it, as you can basically build your characters how you like. The 4th slot changes with different characters throughout the game, which honestly I thought was pretty refreshing especially for it's time. Not only did it get the main NPC of that chapter more involved and made it feel like they had skin in the game, you were given a new member to experiment party dynamics with, which did relieve the dullness of battles a little. And the story was somethin else too, I don't think any other game at the time had so many main character deaths.
That's not to say everything's aged well, but in context of it's time, and where the series was in it's life, it really wasn't all that controversial to experiment. If you consider how sequels like Zelda II and Castlevania II were drastically different from their predecessors formula and were still well received among fans during the time, I think FFII would have been just as loved if it had made it to the states back then.
except Zelda 2 and Castlevania 2 were also hated at the time
@@aeroga2383 They really weren't, I'm serious. People who came into the franchises from the 3rd games onward grew to hate them because it was the weird different middle child of the bunch, but overall when they were first released, before any formula was set in stone for these franchises, they were liked.
In order to properly develop the characters and achieve the higher-end jobs on fft you're also forced to grind for hours and attack your own party members, but no one (me included) see that as detrimental. I've never played ff2, but my guess is that the problem with it lies in its story, rather than progression system
No thats bullshit. You may have to grind to level 4 of each weapon and magic before Josef mission "And possibly have about 300 HP meter but not more than that because then your Inn will be expensive, magic meter is good to increase which it will do automatically the more magic you use during your grind. Which i did. And after that you dont have to grind at all you can just let enemies pound you. You just can blast through it til the end like a normal game while you use a weapon in each hand to use on that character. Unless you wanna grind at end point (SPOILERS) when you get Leon back.
FFII is great (in gba at least), it can be very challenging, but you can adjust dificulty by “grinding”, and, as you said, you can level up in literally every battle. I personally like to make my party a force of nature, and this ff lets me do that ... every ff lets you do that... use the magicites, materia, junction system, etc...
I remember getting Dawn of Souls on GBA and thinking Final Fantasy 2 was awesome. I'm definitely looking forward to playing it again with the pixel remaster.
Jesus Christ, Thank you for this video, i played the game and it had it's flaws but it was overall fun, i never liked that bandwagon mindset of hating on this game for things like the keyword system that it's barely a mechanich while the popular thing is to agree FF6 is perfect and shouldn't be criticized even though half the game doesn't work, half the cast is full-on useless until the half point by wich every character becomes the same (except the actual two to three characters that remain useless) and how anoying using to use are the special actions for how useless they are, srsly thank you.
or how they complain about FFXIII being a "hallway"...
when their beloved FFX is a hallway for, like, 20-30 hours
People often follow the crowd.
If there is one bad review everyone, gives bad review, although the game is really old and not comparable to new final fantasy games, it still is a really good game for nes!
I have played a translated version of the original famicom for nes, and I really liked it
Ultima does more damage based on how many other spells and weapons you have mastered. Unless you're playing the NES version, which is bugged.
By the way, the reason why you can hit your own party members is because if one of them gets hit by sleep you can hit them to wake them up. It was said in an interview by Akitoshi Kawazu.
It's also a feature in popular entries in the FF series, like FF7. And no one gives FF7 flack for it.
@@OniLinkBrazil1993 yeah...you don't level up for hitting yourself.
Along with FF1, FF2 is my favorite in the series. I was impressed by the amount of hate that this game has.
-The game isnt broken, at least the GBA and PSP remakes. All the spells works, hitting your characters isnt neccesary, just optional, and is much better than newer games where this is just useless and level up is very quick if you fight with high rank monsters.
-Contrary to what some people said, the game explains you the mechanics, at least in these two remakes, in a room on the rebel base.
-The game never makes you grind a lot, in fact, i found it one of the less grinding games in the franchise along with FF1.
-Even if all of these was true, the game was released in 1988 in a console that was a potato. And in terms of character level up, is one of the most realistic RPGs i ever seen.
-I can understand why some people think the dungeons are somewhat annoying, although the combats itself arent really too hard, and is very funny when the fanbase praise FF5, 6, 7, 8 when this games have like 10 times more grinding and 10 times more annoying encounter rate! Welcome to the hypocrites club! I will show you the way.
The pixel remaster boosters and auto battle go a long way to ease the spell issues. Got a late game spell? Need Esuna to be effective? Throw on 4x spell exp and use your fancy new spell.
I love FF2! Though years and years ago I tried the "hitting yourself" method and it honestly fucked up my game so much I had to delete the file. I just couldn't get passed the dreadnought airship dungeon, it was that bad. If it works for you then ok, but if you want to play FF2 I would recommend NOT doing this method.
i don't understand why can't you pass the dreadnough airship ?
@@theflashgordon193 The game requires alot of grinding, but there is an easy solution.
I think it depends on which version
the PS1 version is based on the original Famicom/NES version, which was way broken
the GBA and PSP versions are slightly easier.
@@tenbones545 Oh wow, this was about 2009 with the PS1 version so it was a long ass time ago, but from memory what happened was that I had high HP and Cure IX or something around the time the mission to blow up the Dreadnought airship. I ran out of Ethers fast and got stuck there because after you save a character in the airship there the Black Knight character will block the entrance out. I tried doing some more grinding for cash but in FF2 the inn's become more pricey the more injured you are. It became way too much of a hassle, so I cursed myself for trying this method and then re-started playing the game "normally", and had a much easier time.
Not to mention it's not fun at all. The mad grinding and having to waltz back to towns to revive characters, again and again, it takes hours and it sucks. FF2 IS pretty grind-heavy, but it's more fun to take the game at a normal pace instead of going insane and hitting your own party members so they're too "overleveled".
Can't all leveling systems be manipulated in any RPG? Why don't people criticize the same leveling system when it's in other games?
FF2 may have its flaws, but the hate it gets with the reworked versions is completely overblown imo (same with FF15 and 8 to some degree btw).
Played the gba version and had a completely different experience than a lot of people. "Having to hit yourself" is absolutely not true. I never did it myself and my characters had very high HP stats at the end of the game although I never (last boss aside) actively grinded in this game.
I went into it mostly blind (you just cant escape the "have to hit yourself" phrase) and decided on a certain playstyle for each character while focusing only on a few spells and got pretty easily through the game (until the very final boss). So I am asking myself: Is the game considered grindy because its difficult if you dont grind (magic) or because people decide they want to level up all those spells even if they are not really forced to?
One thing I really don't understand is how universally loved Final Fantasy Tactics is, but games like FF2 are so hated. Anyone going 100% blind into Tactics is probably going to get their ass kicked. The problem with that game is, that your character levels dont really matter. What matters are the jobs and the ability points (and the gear). So when you go online and read discussions about Tactics you will see plenty of people saying how they did their extra grinding by attacking their own party members or throwing stones at them. While in neither games you are totally forced to do this kind of thing, I'd still argue you are much more dependant to abuse the game mechanics in Tactics than you are in FF2.
Tactics is also super unbalanced. It has jobs and abilities that completely break the game and others which are pretty much useless. And you can softlock your save file because those random encounters get way too strong when they level up with you and you arent able anymore to grind ability points.
Dungeons in this game never felt like a chore to me. There are other games with super confusing dungeon design. In those games it gets extremely frustrating having no idea where to go while constantly getting interrupted by random encounters. Even though there are branches within dungeons in this, not even once I felt lost.
I also dont unterstand why those trap doors are hated sooo much. Some people view them as punishment. Personally I saw each room as "one step closer to figuring out this dungeon". While they do have an extreme high encounter rate, its still mostly only 1 or 2 fights to get out of them. Its not like they take an eternity.
I also thought they work really well with the gameplay design. Because you pretty much get at the very least 1 stat increasement 90% of the time, fights in some way still feel rewarding/addicting and not like a complete waste of time. Also liked that the gba version was so fast. Very short loading times, short casting times, short fights overall.
Good joob with the video. Those 45 mins felt more like 15. I enjoyed you putting in so many clips from other reviewers and sources into this.
AMazing how he didn't think of taking the axe off of Guy.
I really liked this game. It wasn’t bad at all. The story is really good.