You are sharing information that is not available in this method anywhere else that I know of. You deserve the gold medal for internal thread milling description. Thank you for showing the actual tools and the variety that you have. I don't think thank you is even close to enough. Not sure what your goal with showing the video is, but it has been seen and appreciated in the biggest way for me and I think for many others too.
I know Im randomly asking but does anybody know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account..? I somehow forgot my login password. I love any help you can give me
@Walter Major I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and Im trying it out now. Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
AH!!!!! You know how many threading tools I have broke, due to not being smart enough to understand what the software was trying to allow me to set up??????? Please note, I stated "I broke".... not the machine broke.... Seeing this side by side parameter adjustment, completely changed what I thought I understood!!! Now I can't wait to play with this again, instead of dreading having my a$$ chewed for tool breakage, or improper tolerances, anytime I would venture outside of the slower threading methods I do understand and can safely predict. Peter, you never seem to fail at hitting the nail on the head, with information that by most, likely take for granted, but is mind blowing to somebody like me that is struggling to wrap my head around all that there is to learn, while I try to be safe, and cost effective, logical, and in turn, profitable... Thank you for this one! I am still playing around with the science of gun drill geometry, or maybe it should be called "magic", at the gate minimum, called artwork, and am really getting the physics down, and graphing out the performance of each mission, as I change one thing at a time, just to see what the results are, make corrections and go the other way if need be, I am having a really good time doing this, and once I am done sharpening my ax, so to speak, with what I feel is where I need to be with the whole gun drill concepts, I believe I can move on to my next stages, of what I have been hung up on for several years now on a particular project. Thank you, again, for helping out the folks who are not as wise as you are, and care enough to share your knowledge for the common wealth, for what I have understood, as to perpetuate the trade craft of all property's pertaining to the machining industry, from drafting, to CAD/CAM, to metallurgy, to quality control standards, and business management, heck, I have also seen "self management" and character building teachings in your content, and many other positives. there are several other TH-camr's who also promote the same orthodox, and I appreciate them as well. There is no need to reply to my comment, as I am just saying thank you, to show recognition for the efforts and time you dedicate to helping others, like me. Dru
Man can't thank you enough Peter, really liked this one. Oh whom I kidding I love them all! Really appreciate all the time you take to share and educate, especially when the soul purpose of the project is to do just that. It really helps me to understand when I can visually see the OP in both CAM & IRL. And I always love the garage vids. Thanks again Peter!
Thanks.. my son and I were in the garage playing with Fusion on our cheap ass cnc mil this evening. Really got him inspired to do more cam on Fusion. Thanks for the video
Now _that's_ the sort of vigorous investigation that can only be done by someone with years of experience. A really valuable video. (Not to me, of course, I'm a property developer. But to machinists - excellent.) Can you confirm that the angle of the thread mill teeth is less than the angle of the thread teeth, on account of the thread mill having no helix. Both systems show it as 60°.
Thanks. I've got a better grasp now. The cutter silhouette matches the thread profile, but there needs to be axial relief as well as radial relief due to the helical path.
You are very much appreciated. This is exactly what I was asking for on that other video. Some of us are a little slow. Me for example I'm a visual learner and I hate reading, lol. Thank you very much. You went above and beyond with the detail. Thanks again boss. Amazing content.
Thanks for making this! It's always interesting to see the little differences in how different softwares do the same thing. also, your audio seemed a little messed up on the fusion 360 section.
You meant to say that Fusion 360 do little different than other softwares did decade ago (his version of Esprit is pretty old). Must know software do that that much easier and faster.
Thanks for the video, I was expecting you to thread the two holes using Fusion and Esprit on the same workpiece so that there was an instant comparison from one hole to the other.
Mr. Peter, how do you control the G41/G42 cutter comp when there is not enough room inside the hole to travel length=cutter radius to start compensating? When I have to do that I start thread milling top to bottom and above the part in order to have room for the compensation to take place. But I cannot utilize all the flutes of my cutter, just the first one as I mill top to bottom with the end of the cutter. Of course that is not efficient at all. If I need to mill a tight fit thread bottom to top (without compensation) I do several test cuts changing the cutter diameter inside the CAM so it changes the G3 radius accordingly. In general, a video which will represent tight milling tolerances where there is not enough room for G41/G42 compensation would be interesting (EG 12mm keyway slot blind both ends with a 10mm tool or M12x1.75 internal thread with 8mm cutter).
I need to make another video explaining cutter comp in relation to the lead in and out moves. When I made this video and watched it there are thing I saw that needed to have a more through explanation. But the video starts to get to long. My first impression to your problem is that you are not using the proper lead in and out moves in relation to your compensated values set on you controls tool setup. Even if you only have .001 clearance you can get the tool into the hole and use comp. But if the leads are not correct you will gouge the hole.
Thanks for the quick response. For the 10mm endmill I need at least a 5mm approach move to compensate for G41/G42. Into a tight slot I'll try tangential lead in with 3-4 degrees lead angle for that. But sometimes inside a threaded hole there is not enough room for that for the thread mill. You either approach half or quarter cycle a thread and not with a linear move. At least my Mori doesn't allow me to use G41 without a linear move of half the tool diameter. Again thank you for the time spending compiling your vids. They are really educative for all of us !!!
Yes you always apply and remove comp on a G01 line. The relationship between the lead in G01 line to the next element and its length controls how much movement there will be. If for instance with your 10MM endmill with a 5MM radius. If your lead in line is exactly 5MM long and is perpendicular to the next line or arc there will be no movement if you apply the comp on that line. The endmill always moves to a tangent location of the line or arc after the line comp is applied and finishes in the same tangent location to the line or arc before the line where comp is canceled. That is hard to explain in writing. I will make another video where I can draw some diagrams of this.
A ten year old software still gives you a better control of the machining process and uses the short tool in a much more clever way saving you a ton of time. Not changed your mind yet?
@@Jay9999 ya fusion screwed up a 8 thousand dollar casting on us. Here the post processing wasnt correct i believe. Bad thing is you couldnt see it in a dry run and on profiles the numbers turn to jiberish so the only way we would have caught the gouge would have been to test the program in aluminum first. We were using a mazak with interchangeable heads from vert to a 4 position indexable horizontal head. So in the midde of the profile i think it canceled something that caused the gouge. I think from what i see peter do that esprit has a better post processor too!
does fusion have the ability to compensate for rounding errors in thread milling? that is to say, if your required Z move is 5 digits but you're posting to a haas that can handle 4 digits, over a long enough distance this would cause you to cut a variable pitch thread. i can compensate for that in mastercam, and it looks like esprit automatically compensates for that simply by nature of how it generates the toolpath in multiple segments. i haven't played with fusion360 much and it's alright but you don't get as much control as i like to have. in mastercam i can get in and adjust pretty much every single variable if i need to.
Esprit generates the thread milling cycle passes based on the cut length and depth of the thread programmed. So if the tools cut length is shorter than the hole depth specified. It will put in enough paths to generate the full depth. I don''t know how many digits or decimal places Fusion will allow. I haven't experimented with that yet.
I would have to pay someone to make one. At this point it isn't worth it to me to do so. Unless they already have a post for your machine the fusion people don't make them. They direct you to a outside company to do it for you.
Thanks for the reply Peter. I have the e-500 with matrix control. I thought initially I could just get the tool path I wanted and just call it up as a subprogram with the tool loaded and B in the correct position. But that has proven to be quite cumbersome.
A ten year old software still gives you a better control of the machining process and uses the short tool in a much more clever way saving you a ton of time. As a student I get a free licence for Inventor and HSM Works (which is basically Fusion CAM) so I use it but you can see a lot of little things that could be improved. Nicer work done by Esprit this time.
Very interesting to see someone as experienced as you do real world comparisons with Fusion since most other cad/cam is way out of the average Joe's price range .Do you think it will be able to run your Integrex ?
I think if I can get a functional post for Fusion. It will do most everything I need to do on the Mazak. I may have to do somethings a little different than Esprit but it will still work.
If you do find a post that works well for the integrex, please inform where you got it from. I have a 500H-ll that I would really like to use fusion 360 with
Hmm... You were mentioning about how Fusion 360 does not allow for percentage based cutting depths to compensate for the increased load the cutter experiences with each progressive radial cut but while watching the F360 I "noticed" that because of how the thread is being cut each thread already is being cut 3 times ( the number of teeth ) while with the Aspire solution it will only be cut once - Could that be a factor worth considering?
When I made this video I didn't remember that Fusion can use expressions For it's entries (Esprit doesn't). It may be possible to enter a cut in depth with a calculation to reduce the depth of cut per pass. Due to my inexperience with Fusion I may be incorrect in that statement that it doesn't have the ability to do this.
Thanks for the vid!, btw, looks to me like you have the camera set in perspective mode in the fusion, recommend setting it to orthographic mode, had some problems with the perspective mode not showing clearly the points on a tool path.
I don't know this for sure in any way, but perhaps there is some way to use an equation in the stepover so that it takes smaller cuts with each pass within fusion. I know the math available within it is powerful, but I don't know all the available CAM expressions. I would be nice if it was possible though.
This has been suggested in other comments. I didn't think of this at the time because being us to Esprit. It doesn't allow entries like this. I will have to try this. Thanks.
I never use the thread cycle in F360. If you go to the last tab in a drilling cycle, there are alot of choices for simple toolpaths. Circular pocket milling, bore milling, etc. One of them is thread milling, and there you can simply enter in the thread diameter like you want to.
You should be able to write a simple math expression in the depth of cut field to describe the reduction in pass depth for fusion. You can use pretty much any value to describe another. It could be 60% of pitch diameter for instance
I really enjoy your channel, lots of really good information. I like watching the CAM/programming videos also. Are you still using Fusion at all? If so I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on it as some time has past since you did this video. Thanks
Nice to have the money for all these tools. Just building a single point thread flycutter from broken 4mm carbide endmills to repair a cracked nut on my biax scraper, after looking at the prices for threadmills on ebay. Then I will try threadmilling on my FP4NC for the first time ;-)
I've used taps for thread milling when I don't have the correct tool, just grind three of the four flutes off and the lead from the bottom also. Cheap way to make a thread mill.
I cut hardened steel with thread mills and from my experience i program it the same way you did only i cut conventionally because the tool goes in to the hole downwards.
So what do you gain with a multiple tooth treadmill in fusion if is goes from the bottom all the way up? It's only using the top tooth instead of all three like esprit does. Only benefit I see is, if the top tooth is worn out the second and the third tooth will fix the thread all the way up. Correct me if I'm wrong. Great content again, although I like to see more machining in a video. Keep them coming!
Hi Tom. The "benefit" that you mentioned is not really there. I'll try to explain. Let's say that each tooth can last 10 threaded holes. With the fusion toolpath your tool lasts 30 holes because once the first tooth wears out after 10 holes, the second one begins to work for another 10 and the third one brings you to 30. With Esprit you also get 30 holes done because each tooth has to work for 1/3 of the hole depth! In the end, the "Fusion" tool is semi destroyed (because the first tooth continues to work) while the "Esprit" tool has a nice even wear, and has done your 30 holes in 1/3 of the time! This is my view, I hope that it make sense
Seems logic Stefano, and I'm sure that the esprit strategy will work better with difficult to machine materials. Else the tool will just snap if 1 tooth is worn out
Mawkuh Hunner if you are talking about thread milling there is a place in fusion to enter offset value if the selected geometry is the ID which is usually going to be the case.
I think John Saunders has mentioned that you can put expressions as well as numbers into some or all of the entry boxes in Fusion. So that offset value could probably be entered as major-minor diameter and save you doing the math. I think he has also said that there are some hidden magic variable names that you can use in equations. So you might be able to write something hideous that would do that multi-pass variable-depth cut the way you want it. Whether it would be worth the ugliness is perhaps questionable.
5 ปีที่แล้ว
Even better would be if the fusion-team re-build the" threadmill cycle". Why not av, as mentioned, ID/OD fields? The ID being auto-populated when you select a hole. Or posibility to select what type of thread you want, and then let the software do the math instead of having to type in the offsetvalue
Fusion is the watered down version of investors hsm. Witch gives you all the features that esprit will. I have only used hsm to program and basically all the short comings of fusion get ironed out for hsm. And all of investor hsm's problems get ironed out with powermill lol. Power mill is more like a cam softwares. Investor hsm is like a 3d modeling software with a light hint of cam and fusion is what you get for like 3k a year. For the price you can't beat Fusion and if you already have a license for investor its not to much to add hsm to it. So auto desk is just covering all the markets they can. But like as the auto desk guy told me if your working on jobs were you need that level of control and the features you can aford the better stuff lol. But yea great video.
Fusion 360 is great for is cost, but for that money you will got limitations, Esprit is totally different market segment (same as is PowerMill) and is expected that Esprit/PowerMill do better job (same job easier). I totaly agree what auto desk guy told you, and that is easily seen by software used by companies (you will not find any aerospace company using Fusion 360 they all use NX or CATIA, and I doubght they are stupid to pay software 100x-200x more then Fusion 360 if they can do all in Fusion 360).
@@mrlazda yea like i don't like to compare fusion to alot of other cam because its the tormach of cnc machines yea you can make some suff off of it but good luck machining anything at a competitive level. Like also a the more expensive cam softwares make doing things easier so you can go faster and time is money
Are the DMT tools meant to be ran on a rigid tapping cycle, g84? If so in fusion you just pick a drilling cycle and set the options to tapping or peck tapping.
@@mtnbikeman85 No the tools drill tip is slightly bigger in diameter than the thread mill above it. It has its clearance ground so it can also mill from the side. So you drill the hole with a drilling cycle. Than immediately after drilling with the same tool. plunge back into the hole and mill the thread with the upper part of the tool. that's ground as a thread mill. Because of the way this tool has to work. It has a cut length to mill the entire thread in one revolution. The tip below the thread mill will mill kind of a helical shaped thread relief below the thread.
@@EdgePrecision ahh ok, i guess you'd have to get creative with it then. You could probably define two different tools (t1 and t101) for it, program a drill cycle and a thread mill cycle, carefully set heights, then renumber both to t1 in the .nc file. I don't do much thread milling, so not sure if its options there will allow one pass.
It seems for this operation and post processor, the CAM programs are becoming more like CAD programs. They all pretty much can do the same thing with no clear "better" program. I would say though for workflow Fusion has the edge because you can do everything with one program enviornment
I started programming less than a year ago. I use fusion everyday and my first job was thread milling a 2"-8 internal thread with a six point thread mill. I had to do about 25 threads and it took me 5 thread tool paths. It's the fastest way to thread something with that many points but it really sucked programming. If you really want to get into their flaws then go their lathe side of things.
I use Fusion, PowerMill and Esprit at our shop. On a 3 axis mill doing simple operations nothing beats Fusion, in terms of quickly getting good toolpathes to the machine, but and a big but Fusion is terrible for lathes or mill turn, like absolutely terrible, Esprit my not be the best out there but it gives you great control and excellent tool paths. For 5 axis or complex 3d work we use powermill its just so much more powerful and the toolpaths are so much better.
Are you asking how to program a NPT thread? I have not done that yet in fusion but in Esprit it is just the way you specify the thread mill. If the tool is specified with a taper it mills the thread with a taper. I take it back I did do a pipe thread in my honey do video in fusion. It goes by the taper in the model. I think Esprit can also do it this way. So if your model has the proper taper than so will your thread. Your thread mill either has to be a single lead type or a tapered one with the full thread form.
@@EdgePrecision I mean thread detail interpretation, my work place have program ready, but on the drawing I just make or female and size of npt, with the length and that is it. I just wonder where they get these dimension from and is there any book or standard I can use??. Thank for rely
To check the size of a female NPT thread you need a taper gauge. They have a flat ground on one side. When the thread is of the correct diameter the flat is flush with top surface. The Machinery Hand book has standard pipe thread dimensions if that's what you are looking for.
thanks for sharing, but in machinery hand book, it tell you the length of thread engagement, and the outside or inside diameter. i have hard time try to interpret what the book try to say. can you give me a little hint, in term of thread depth, where should i stop on length of thread engagement, may be i have to add some more Z on programing lathe to get that??. how big of chamfer i should cut for that type of thread?? somtime in ID npt i got no clue where to bore id to. i could ask these question at my workplace, but they alway try to be busy to avoid my question.
Keep that beautiful content flowing. It always makes my day to see you uploading.
You are sharing information that is not available in this method anywhere else that I know of. You deserve the gold medal for internal thread milling description. Thank you for showing the actual tools and the variety that you have. I don't think thank you is even close to enough. Not sure what your goal with showing the video is, but it has been seen and appreciated in the biggest way for me and I think for many others too.
Really enjoy your vids Peter. You are an encyclopedia of machining knowledge.
I know Im randomly asking but does anybody know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
I somehow forgot my login password. I love any help you can give me
@Jackson Jeremias Instablaster ;)
@Walter Major I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and Im trying it out now.
Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Walter Major It worked and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my ass !
@Jackson Jeremias Glad I could help :D
That rapid down inside the hole during the first Fusion threading operation was nuts 😮
AH!!!!! You know how many threading tools I have broke, due to not being smart enough to understand what the software was trying to allow me to set up??????? Please note, I stated "I broke".... not the machine broke.... Seeing this side by side parameter adjustment, completely changed what I thought I understood!!! Now I can't wait to play with this again, instead of dreading having my a$$ chewed for tool breakage, or improper tolerances, anytime I would venture outside of the slower threading methods I do understand and can safely predict. Peter, you never seem to fail at hitting the nail on the head, with information that by most, likely take for granted, but is mind blowing to somebody like me that is struggling to wrap my head around all that there is to learn, while I try to be safe, and cost effective, logical, and in turn, profitable... Thank you for this one! I am still playing around with the science of gun drill geometry, or maybe it should be called "magic", at the gate minimum, called artwork, and am really getting the physics down, and graphing out the performance of each mission, as I change one thing at a time, just to see what the results are, make corrections and go the other way if need be, I am having a really good time doing this, and once I am done sharpening my ax, so to speak, with what I feel is where I need to be with the whole gun drill concepts, I believe I can move on to my next stages, of what I have been hung up on for several years now on a particular project. Thank you, again, for helping out the folks who are not as wise as you are, and care enough to share your knowledge for the common wealth, for what I have understood, as to perpetuate the trade craft of all property's pertaining to the machining industry, from drafting, to CAD/CAM, to metallurgy, to quality control standards, and business management, heck, I have also seen "self management" and character building teachings in your content, and many other positives. there are several other TH-camr's who also promote the same orthodox, and I appreciate them as well. There is no need to reply to my comment, as I am just saying thank you, to show recognition for the efforts and time you dedicate to helping others, like me. Dru
Great video! Would love to see more comparisons like this as you continue working through fusion
Love your videos, you just showed me about two dozen things that I didn’t know.
Man can't thank you enough Peter, really liked this one. Oh whom I kidding I love them all! Really appreciate all the time you take to share and educate, especially when the soul purpose of the project is to do just that. It really helps me to understand when I can visually see the OP in both CAM & IRL. And I always love the garage vids. Thanks again Peter!
Thanks.. my son and I were in the garage playing with Fusion on our cheap ass cnc mil this evening. Really got him inspired to do more cam on Fusion. Thanks for the video
Now _that's_ the sort of vigorous investigation that can only be done by someone with years of experience. A really valuable video. (Not to me, of course, I'm a property developer. But to machinists - excellent.)
Can you confirm that the angle of the thread mill teeth is less than the angle of the thread teeth, on account of the thread mill having no helix. Both systems show it as 60°.
Thanks. I've got a better grasp now. The cutter silhouette matches the thread profile, but there needs to be axial relief as well as radial relief due to the helical path.
You are very much appreciated. This is exactly what I was asking for on that other video. Some of us are a little slow. Me for example I'm a visual learner and I hate reading, lol. Thank you very much. You went above and beyond with the detail. Thanks again boss. Amazing content.
Thanks for the video. The difference in machine work flow in fusion is huge.
Thank you for taking the time to share this. Charles
Interesting to see the differences.
Very good video on the exsplaning the difference. I run ONE CNC on my TM2P .
Very good demonstration and comparison, Peter.
Cheers, Gary
Thanks Gary.
Thanks for making this! It's always interesting to see the little differences in how different softwares do the same thing. also, your audio seemed a little messed up on the fusion 360 section.
You meant to say that Fusion 360 do little different than other softwares did decade ago (his version of Esprit is pretty old). Must know software do that that much easier and faster.
Thanks for the video, I was expecting you to thread the two holes using Fusion and Esprit on the same workpiece so that there was an instant comparison from one hole to the other.
Mr. Peter, how do you control the G41/G42 cutter comp when there is not enough room inside the hole to travel length=cutter radius to start compensating? When I have to do that I start thread milling top to bottom and above the part in order to have room for the compensation to take place. But I cannot utilize all the flutes of my cutter, just the first one as I mill top to bottom with the end of the cutter. Of course that is not efficient at all. If I need to mill a tight fit thread bottom to top (without compensation) I do several test cuts changing the cutter diameter inside the CAM so it changes the G3 radius accordingly. In general, a video which will represent tight milling tolerances where there is not enough room for G41/G42 compensation would be interesting (EG 12mm keyway slot blind both ends with a 10mm tool or M12x1.75 internal thread with 8mm cutter).
I need to make another video explaining cutter comp in relation to the lead in and out moves. When I made this video and watched it there are thing I saw that needed to have a more through explanation. But the video starts to get to long. My first impression to your problem is that you are not using the proper lead in and out moves in relation to your compensated values set on you controls tool setup. Even if you only have .001 clearance you can get the tool into the hole and use comp. But if the leads are not correct you will gouge the hole.
Thanks for the quick response. For the 10mm endmill I need at least a 5mm approach move to compensate for G41/G42. Into a tight slot I'll try tangential lead in with 3-4 degrees lead angle for that. But sometimes inside a threaded hole there is not enough room for that for the thread mill. You either approach half or quarter cycle a thread and not with a linear move. At least my Mori doesn't allow me to use G41 without a linear move of half the tool diameter. Again thank you for the time spending compiling your vids. They are really educative for all of us !!!
Yes you always apply and remove comp on a G01 line. The relationship between the lead in G01 line to the next element and its length controls how much movement there will be. If for instance with your 10MM endmill with a 5MM radius. If your lead in line is exactly 5MM long and is perpendicular to the next line or arc there will be no movement if you apply the comp on that line. The endmill always moves to a tangent location of the line or arc after the line comp is applied and finishes in the same tangent location to the line or arc before the line where comp is canceled. That is hard to explain in writing. I will make another video where I can draw some diagrams of this.
@@EdgePrecision I got to the point but a video would be more expenatory for sure even for novice machinists. Thank you!!!
Esprit: Give us thousands of dollars for software you already purchased.
Fusion: Hold my beer
Aaron Risley fusion is good, really user friendly plus you will find a lot of videos on TH-cam on how to use it, unlike other softwares
A ten year old software still gives you a better control of the machining process and uses the short tool in a much more clever way saving you a ton of time.
Not changed your mind yet?
Not sure I'd trust fusion with a 2 million machine. Espirit is fully warranted if a collision happens due to software fault
Jason Moore yeah I wouldn’t either but to say you get it for free it isn’t all that bad
@@Jay9999 ya fusion screwed up a 8 thousand dollar casting on us. Here the post processing wasnt correct i believe. Bad thing is you couldnt see it in a dry run and on profiles the numbers turn to jiberish so the only way we would have caught the gouge would have been to test the program in aluminum first. We were using a mazak with interchangeable heads from vert to a 4 position indexable horizontal head. So in the midde of the profile i think it canceled something that caused the gouge. I think from what i see peter do that esprit has a better post processor too!
Do one need to have an encoder on the spindle to do thread milling with a mill that has got several levels?
Sure do...the spindle needs to know where it's at all the time...
No
Awesome content as usual. Ty for another great video and so much knowledge
Awesome video! Any differences in the thread quality? It looks like the last hole you checked didn’t quite seat right.
I was about to ask how do you adjust the lead arc sizes in esprit right when you got to clearance. That seems pretty helpful and keeps it simple.
Slick as snot, thanks for the knowledge bomb.
Excellent video, peter. Thank you very much.
Very nice Video again Peter!!! Thanks! 👍👍👍
Highlighting the value proposition between the 2 is one way to get a win 10 license for software you already own. 😜
you are the best
you got my appreciation
is the video edited or the machine actually moves that fast on the z axis?
The video is sped up in certain clips.
does fusion have the ability to compensate for rounding errors in thread milling? that is to say, if your required Z move is 5 digits but you're posting to a haas that can handle 4 digits, over a long enough distance this would cause you to cut a variable pitch thread. i can compensate for that in mastercam, and it looks like esprit automatically compensates for that simply by nature of how it generates the toolpath in multiple segments. i haven't played with fusion360 much and it's alright but you don't get as much control as i like to have. in mastercam i can get in and adjust pretty much every single variable if i need to.
Esprit generates the thread milling cycle passes based on the cut length and depth of the thread programmed. So if the tools cut length is shorter than the hole depth specified. It will put in enough paths to generate the full depth. I don''t know how many digits or decimal places Fusion will allow. I haven't experimented with that yet.
Are you able to actually get fusion to post to your integrex?
I would have to pay someone to make one. At this point it isn't worth it to me to do so. Unless they already have a post for your machine the fusion people don't make them. They direct you to a outside company to do it for you.
Thanks for the reply Peter. I have the e-500 with matrix control. I thought initially I could just get the tool path I wanted and just call it up as a subprogram with the tool loaded and B in the correct position. But that has proven to be quite cumbersome.
A ten year old software still gives you a better control of the machining process and uses the short tool in a much more clever way saving you a ton of time.
As a student I get a free licence for Inventor and HSM Works (which is basically Fusion CAM) so I use it but you can see a lot of little things that could be improved. Nicer work done by Esprit this time.
Very interesting to see someone as experienced as you do real world comparisons with Fusion since most other cad/cam is way out of the average Joe's price range .Do you think it will be able to run your Integrex ?
I think if I can get a functional post for Fusion. It will do most everything I need to do on the Mazak. I may have to do somethings a little different than Esprit but it will still work.
@@EdgePrecision Look this up. forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-post-processor-ideas/postprocessor-for-mazak-integrex/idi-p/7138798
If you do find a post that works well for the integrex, please inform where you got it from. I have a 500H-ll that I would really like to use fusion 360 with
This is interesting I may give this a try.
Hmm... You were mentioning about how Fusion 360 does not allow for percentage based cutting depths to compensate for the increased load the cutter experiences with each progressive radial cut but while watching the F360 I "noticed" that because of how the thread is being cut each thread already is being cut 3 times ( the number of teeth ) while with the Aspire solution it will only be cut once - Could that be a factor worth considering?
When I made this video I didn't remember that Fusion can use expressions For it's entries (Esprit doesn't). It may be possible to enter a cut in depth with a calculation to reduce the depth of cut per pass. Due to my inexperience with Fusion I may be incorrect in that statement that it doesn't have the ability to do this.
Very informative, thanks Peter!
Thanks for the vid!, btw, looks to me like you have the camera set in perspective mode in the fusion, recommend setting it to orthographic mode, had some problems with the perspective mode not showing clearly the points on a tool path.
I will try that out thanks!
I don't know this for sure in any way, but perhaps there is some way to use an equation in the stepover so that it takes smaller cuts with each pass within fusion. I know the math available within it is powerful, but I don't know all the available CAM expressions. I would be nice if it was possible though.
This has been suggested in other comments. I didn't think of this at the time because being us to Esprit. It doesn't allow entries like this. I will have to try this. Thanks.
Peter could you please make a video of how to setup the thread mill tool is Fusion. Thanks
I never use the thread cycle in F360. If you go to the last tab in a drilling cycle, there are alot of choices for simple toolpaths. Circular pocket milling, bore milling, etc. One of them is thread milling, and there you can simply enter in the thread diameter like you want to.
Nhưng dùng chu trình Drill với cycle types là thread milling nó có hiệu quả như thread 2d milling không và sự khác nhau giữa chúng là gì
Hello father. Great video
You should be able to write a simple math expression in the depth of cut field to describe the reduction in pass depth for fusion. You can use pretty much any value to describe another. It could be 60% of pitch diameter for instance
great video - thanks for the comparison.
I really enjoy your channel, lots of really good information. I like watching the CAM/programming videos also. Are you still using Fusion at all? If so I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on it as some time has past since you did this video. Thanks
Nice to have the money for all these tools.
Just building a single point thread flycutter from broken 4mm carbide endmills to repair a cracked nut on my biax scraper, after looking at the prices for threadmills on ebay.
Then I will try threadmilling on my FP4NC for the first time ;-)
I've used taps for thread milling when I don't have the correct tool, just grind three of the four flutes off and the lead from the bottom also. Cheap way to make a thread mill.
do you run your Haas TM on single phase or three phase?
I run everything in my garage at home on single phase 230 volts.
I cut hardened steel with thread mills and from my experience i program it the same way you did only i cut conventionally because the tool goes in to the hole downwards.
There are left hand cutters available for doing this while climb milling.
So what do you gain with a multiple tooth treadmill in fusion if is goes from the bottom all the way up? It's only using the top tooth instead of all three like esprit does. Only benefit I see is, if the top tooth is worn out the second and the third tooth will fix the thread all the way up. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Great content again, although I like to see more machining in a video.
Keep them coming!
Yes,It just takes more time to make every revolution of the thread.
Hi Tom. The "benefit" that you mentioned is not really there. I'll try to explain. Let's say that each tooth can last 10 threaded holes.
With the fusion toolpath your tool lasts 30 holes because once the first tooth wears out after 10 holes, the second one begins to work for another 10 and the third one brings you to 30.
With Esprit you also get 30 holes done because each tooth has to work for 1/3 of the hole depth!
In the end, the "Fusion" tool is semi destroyed (because the first tooth continues to work) while the "Esprit" tool has a nice even wear, and has done your 30 holes in 1/3 of the time!
This is my view, I hope that it make sense
Seems logic Stefano, and I'm sure that the esprit strategy will work better with difficult to machine materials. Else the tool will just snap if 1 tooth is worn out
Thanks for the great video.
Fusion does need to do a better job with their threading. Even on lathe threading there is no way to control the amount of the first cut.
Dustin Walden I had to adjust my tool offset .072" because I couldn't understand how to program the thread.
Mawkuh Hunner if you are talking about thread milling there is a place in fusion to enter offset value if the selected geometry is the ID which is usually going to be the case.
I think John Saunders has mentioned that you can put expressions as well as numbers into some or all of the entry boxes in Fusion. So that offset value could probably be entered as major-minor diameter and save you doing the math. I think he has also said that there are some hidden magic variable names that you can use in equations. So you might be able to write something hideous that would do that multi-pass variable-depth cut the way you want it. Whether it would be worth the ugliness is perhaps questionable.
Even better would be if the fusion-team re-build the" threadmill cycle". Why not av, as mentioned, ID/OD fields? The ID being auto-populated when you select a hole. Or posibility to select what type of thread you want, and then let the software do the math instead of having to type in the offsetvalue
I don't think there's any doubt that cnc tech school courses are using Peter's clips as teaching aids.
Fusion is the watered down version of investors hsm. Witch gives you all the features that esprit will. I have only used hsm to program and basically all the short comings of fusion get ironed out for hsm. And all of investor hsm's problems get ironed out with powermill lol. Power mill is more like a cam softwares. Investor hsm is like a 3d modeling software with a light hint of cam and fusion is what you get for like 3k a year. For the price you can't beat Fusion and if you already have a license for investor its not to much to add hsm to it. So auto desk is just covering all the markets they can. But like as the auto desk guy told me if your working on jobs were you need that level of control and the features you can aford the better stuff lol. But yea great video.
Fusion 360 is great for is cost, but for that money you will got limitations, Esprit is totally different market segment (same as is PowerMill) and is expected that Esprit/PowerMill do better job (same job easier).
I totaly agree what auto desk guy told you, and that is easily seen by software used by companies (you will not find any aerospace company using Fusion 360 they all use NX or CATIA, and I doubght they are stupid to pay software 100x-200x more then Fusion 360 if they can do all in Fusion 360).
@@mrlazda yea like i don't like to compare fusion to alot of other cam because its the tormach of cnc machines yea you can make some suff off of it but good luck machining anything at a competitive level. Like also a the more expensive cam softwares make doing things easier so you can go faster and time is money
What about multi tool-drill, chamfer and tread- one tool (DMT- Carmex catalog)
I'm not sure how Fusion would handle this (I have never tried it). In Esprit you can drill and thread with the same tool. It doesn't care.
Are the DMT tools meant to be ran on a rigid tapping cycle, g84? If so in fusion you just pick a drilling cycle and set the options to tapping or peck tapping.
@@mtnbikeman85 No the tools drill tip is slightly bigger in diameter than the thread mill above it. It has its clearance ground so it can also mill from the side. So you drill the hole with a drilling cycle. Than immediately after drilling with the same tool. plunge back into the hole and mill the thread with the upper part of the tool. that's ground as a thread mill. Because of the way this tool has to work. It has a cut length to mill the entire thread in one revolution. The tip below the thread mill will mill kind of a helical shaped thread relief below the thread.
@@EdgePrecision ahh ok, i guess you'd have to get creative with it then. You could probably define two different tools (t1 and t101) for it, program a drill cycle and a thread mill cycle, carefully set heights, then renumber both to t1 in the .nc file. I don't do much thread milling, so not sure if its options there will allow one pass.
Can you tell us a little bit more how not is cut and programming it??. It is alway good to learn from expert
It seems for this operation and post processor, the CAM programs are becoming more like CAD programs. They all pretty much can do the same thing with no clear "better" program. I would say though for workflow Fusion has the edge because you can do everything with one program enviornment
There is a lot of things I like about Fusion that even AutoDesk's more expensive programs don't do.
I really like that tool pr0n-galore!
I did not know those software works differently
I started programming less than a year ago. I use fusion everyday and my first job was thread milling a 2"-8 internal thread with a six point thread mill. I had to do about 25 threads and it took me 5 thread tool paths. It's the fastest way to thread something with that many points but it really sucked programming. If you really want to get into their flaws then go their lathe side of things.
That's the TRUTH
Very Cool.........
With the 3 tooth thread mill, what would the benefit be to running multiple z passes versus a full depth helix as in fusion?
You do roughly half as many revolutions to mill the thread. It takes less time.
17:45 but why is this important for you?
Pardon the novel, didn't realize it was long, until I hit the send button, and it is a mile long, lol
I use Fusion, PowerMill and Esprit at our shop. On a 3 axis mill doing simple operations nothing beats Fusion, in terms of quickly getting good toolpathes to the machine, but and a big but Fusion is terrible for lathes or mill turn, like absolutely terrible, Esprit my not be the best out there but it gives you great control and excellent tool paths. For 5 axis or complex 3d work we use powermill its just so much more powerful and the toolpaths are so much better.
I still don’t understand thread milling.
Npt thread is what I mean
Are you asking how to program a NPT thread? I have not done that yet in fusion but in Esprit it is just the way you specify the thread mill. If the tool is specified with a taper it mills the thread with a taper. I take it back I did do a pipe thread in my honey do video in fusion. It goes by the taper in the model. I think Esprit can also do it this way. So if your model has the proper taper than so will your thread. Your thread mill either has to be a single lead type or a tapered one with the full thread form.
@@EdgePrecision I mean thread detail interpretation, my work place have program ready, but on the drawing I just make or female and size of npt, with the length and that is it. I just wonder where they get these dimension from and is there any book or standard I can use??. Thank for rely
To check the size of a female NPT thread you need a taper gauge. They have a flat ground on one side. When the thread is of the correct diameter the flat is flush with top surface. The Machinery Hand book has standard pipe thread dimensions if that's what you are looking for.
thanks for sharing, but in machinery hand book, it tell you the length of thread engagement, and the outside or inside diameter. i have hard time try to interpret what the book try to say. can you give me a little hint, in term of thread depth, where should i stop on length of thread engagement, may be i have to add some more Z on programing lathe to get that??. how big of chamfer i should cut for that type of thread?? somtime in ID npt i got no clue where to bore id to. i could ask these question at my workplace, but they alway try to be busy to avoid my question.
Have you tried Fusion on your Intergrex for turning? Don't!
Not yet. We shall see.
Off topic: Just found this idea for a self cleaning Gopro lens
th-cam.com/video/CLR0mReQRHY/w-d-xo.html
Yes I have already watched this video. I got a few new Ideas of my own. Just haven't had time to try them.
I mean not not, 'not'