Hey everyone. While I'm glad that you all are enjoying this video, I have some really bad news regarding Palisades Village. As I'm sure many of you have seen, the Palisades fire in the last day or so has completely devastated the entire neighborhood of The Pacific Palisades. Lives have been lost, many hundreds if not thousands of homes and businesses are destroyed, and unfortunately, it seems that Palisades Village was lost in it all. This is a real tragedy, especially considering just how incredible the recent Palisades Village development was and how much it added to LA. Thoughts and prayers go towards the victims, their families, and anyone who has had their livelihood effected by these events. Hope you're all having a wonderful 2025 so far and are safe wherever you are. -Alexander
Hopefully this will give them an opportunity to rebuild to a denser, more fire-resistant standard, with an eventual high-capacity transit corridor serving that area. A lot of barriers to evacuation happened where people ended up having to flee on foot due to the car traffic and people ultimately abandoned their vehicles.
This is just an outdoor shopping mall. If it was a real urbanist project, it would all be 4 stories tall with businesses on the first floor and residential on the upper three, transit access, bike parking and rental, etc. Building purely commercial real estate in the middle of a commercial real estate recession is dumb.
It should have took inspiration from Santana Row in San Jose. Another Westfield project, so it’s not clear why they failed to repeat a success project that is also across the street from a huge mall
I live locally and I know why I don’t go there. It is very simple, the idiots who run it charging for parking. It is not the amount that they charge, but the absolutely unnecessary inconvenience of gates and tickets. Even if you get, I think, an hour and a half, free parking, you still have the hassle of waiting for five cars in front of you to get a ticket, and then when you leave waiting for another five cars to figure out how to open the gate to leave. One who lost the ticket and have to call support. Or if you don’t park in the parking structure, you have to find a ticket machine, remember the parking spot number, get a ticket, go back to your car and put the ticket on the dashboard. With 1 1/2 free, I think there are very few who actually pay parking, so this must be an overall cost for the owners/operators of The Village. There are plenty of options that has, as it used to be, free parking, so why having to have the inconvenience when it’s not necessary. I hope some of the people who runs the place will read my comment. I’ve written to them with my complaint getting, of course, no reply.
I don't particularly find the parking ticketing system to be an issue, as I'm never there for that length of time (an hour and a half). But, it's the fact that as the years have gone by, actually finding a parking space is a growing pain. And I always use the structure, I never come in through the back way (Costco), as that is a nightmare with all the grocery shoppers. Nor do I come in the front way (parking off of Topanga Canyon), because for some reason you have to pay for parking there - I guess because of convenience. Although Topanga facing parking isn't that convenient, as there aren't that many spaces to begin with so you may just be circling around there for a while to find something. It's just a sleepy little shopping center, with not that exciting shopping options. Westfield Topanga has everything you would want or need. The main reason I go there these days is for Cava, but that's only 3 or 4 times a month. And it's a quick in and out.
100%. Not only that - the actual parking is atrocious, so hard to park the car in convenient spots, and the shop selections weren't that interesting either
In Europe almost all small shops are rented by wealthy foreigners (East Europeans, Asians, some Africans) because most locals can not afford the rents anymore.
I live in the Valley and this is plain and simple: money and lack of it. This is a working class area and none of us have shopping money. Rent takes everything in this area and jobs don’t pay well. That’s literally it. We don’t have money to shop or dine out. Prices are too high in the area, these stores are too high end, LA / Valley rents are way too high, wages are too low.
@@axidhaus She would ask Oprah and my party's mega-rich donors what to do to fix things for the rest of us .... right. Oh, wait that's why Trump is President again.
So, it’s cosplay urbanism. Actually it’s not even that, it’s just an outdoor shopping mall. We had a nice one decades ago where I grew up, back when outdoor malls became popular. My parents even took us to see a Carter campaign speech there. And of course, like most malls it’s gone now.
It’s very similar to Fashion Island in Newport Beach, pedestrian walkways in the middle ringed by parking. Somehow even with subgrade parking entrances on the west side of Topanga Village, the pedestrian entrances still prioritize vehicles over pedestrians-which is almost hard to do!
@@toddjasper1 are local who are not rich alowed to join country clubs alowed in the rich gated comunities the answer is no their not so rich locals are not the same as locals
Great example with Pacific Palisades. I always notice the best malls in Europe have grocers, gyms, and many of the needed services to sustain locals even if I'm not using them.
It’s the same story in South America, malls will always have things like a grocer/supermarket,a pharmacy, bank branches, restaurants (not just fast food) as well as bars. Also they’re usually nearby a park as well as transit stops, apartment buildings and offices.
Supermarkets, cafes, locksmiths, banks, travel agents, butchers, greengrocers, bakeries, etc, is part of the retail landscape here in Australia and it's damn successful with high foot traffic 7 days a week. US malls just don't get it.
@@erphek2968 I live in LA. My local mall--Century City Mall--has two grocery stores: Eataly & Gelson's. The Pacific Palisades Mall, mentioned by the OP, has Erewhon. Most newer high end malls in LA have grocery stores (usually gourmet level and expensive). The older malls don't have that. This is mainly because grocery stores are better accessed in Strip Malls that allow easy car parking. It's hellish to get into my local Century City Mall. Parking is tight and very expensive. So, I have to really think about whether I want to go to that grocery store Eataly (which is the main reason why I visit that mall).
The reason that this area fails is the same as the reason that Charleston South Carolina succeeds - to be a success shopping and recreation must be within easy walking distance of where people live, but that is exactly what both these massive roads and "zoning" laws prevent. This post World War II practice of "you live here - you work a place that is far away - and you shop and seek services in a place that is far away from both of the above" is insane.
That and everything is overpriced and underwhelming. I was there yesterday and Athleta had closed. We went for lunch at the new eatery across the street and it the same overpriced and underwhelming.
I disagree pertaining to this specific centre.. The reason it has failed is because there is simply too many choices in that area. For one there is the large Westfield Topanga mall directly across the street and that mall received a massive redesign in 2008. Two blocks south is the abandon Topanga Promenade which was the mall for high end stores. Three blocks west is Ralph's, Walmart and a closed Target. The area is a car dependent zone and always has been and that's not going to change even though the Metro has a bus line that goes into the area.. The newly built apartments and condos close the this centre are extremely expensive are aren't for the working or middle class. Two miles away is the wealthy area of Calabasas and this Topanga area is suppose to support Calabasas as well and guess what? These Calabasas residents drive to Topanga.. The centre failed because it wasn't needed especially when there is a huge indoor mall across the street.
@ and the wealthy on the north side will go to Porter Ranch, on the south side Sherman Oaks or into Beverly Hills because they want to be “seen.” I was hoping to rent an apartment but everything is uber expensive and not worth the dollars for square footage. Calabasas has The Commons, which has great places and stores that have done well and there’s also the Fallbrook mall with TJ Maxx Burlington, Target 24 HR fitness and Chuck E Cheese and Wal Mart. Nothing like great discount shopping.
@@TheOtherKineTo look at this project as if it's representative of Los Angeles is lazy and disingenuous. LA is full of areas with a tons of interesting shops that developed organically; from Silver lake, to Los Feliz all the way to Santa West Hollywood and Monica.
@@parttimehuman Did you even watch the video? Why you attacking me? He's making a valid point about these suburban "island" type malls - not street front shop rows like in old parts of town like Silverlake sheesh
@@TheOtherKine I didn't attack you, I pointed out that it's disingenuous to pretend that the entire city is represented by this project in the valley. Also you called my city pretentious, with no substance and uninteresting. If you're gonna dish out shit like that, you better be prepared to have people call out it out as the bullshit that it is.
What I don’t understand is how billions of dollars are invested into these huge projects, “experts” hired left and right to research ahead of development, and they continue to get some of the most basic stuff completely and utterly wrong. And not just wrong, but they are making the same exact mistakes just recently made in other areas. WTH is wrong with these people???
The thought process usually goes like "everyone in this city drives so we gotta have enough parking otherwise no one would come", and this then leads to making these "pedestrian islands" that are surrounded by surface parking lots, making them disconnected from the rest of the neighborhood.
@@Kodeb8 well yea but that goes into my point. By now there’s at least a decade or two of the same ol projects that have been tried and failed. You’d think by now someone would conclude that the surface lots are a major problem and they should be tucked away somewhere or otherwise be placed underground. That these huge projects should include a residential aspect to help them thrive. Some of what is clearly the basics.
First of all, it is too hot in Woodland Hills for an outdoor mall. Second, it was done in a low budget way without the hoopla or careful selection of tenants that you find at a Caruso project. Finally, the anchor is a Costco. If you have been to Costco, chances are, you have a wagon full of food, with lots of it needing to get to the fridge or freezer. In other words, Costco shoppers are not going to hang out after they shop.
it is not "too hot" in woodland hills for an outdoor mall open year round. it's open today and if you look outside it's a perfectly nice cool sunny day. even in july it's mostly fine unless you're 116 or welsh or something.
Under the hot southern California sun, would I rather go to an outdoor mall heated up by the asphalt surrounded it or a nice comfy airconditioned indoor mall right next door?
As a Woodland Hills native, I can say that you hit everything about the Village right on the money. Your point about the Use of Space in the Village is deadly accurate and it sums up everything that's wrong with this site. Immense kudos to you my good sir
I live nearby as well. The Village has got nothing special. Early plans showed an open space down the middle, but redesigns left me disappointed after completion. It feels so constrained when you walk through it in a quick 5 minutes as mentioned in the video. We seldom ever go there because it's just not worth the hassle of the parking. Perimeter parking is tight and then there is the parking structure. Don't try to park on a Saturday morning in the structure - too much Costco traffic. This part of the valley needed something nice. Early plans showed a pedestrian overcrossing over Victory from the Westfield Topanga Mall, but that never materialized and I wonder if anyone would ever use it. Transient vendors in the stores means a lost consistent customer base.
Your description of these places as an "island" due to large uncrossable stroads around them, is spot on. The valley feels like 1000 little islands separated by these man-made dangerous rivers. They absolutely need to narrow the streets around there. They are hilariously overbuilt. I worked in the Warner Center and even during rush hour, there was always at least 1 or sometimes 2 completely empty car lanes. They can easily narrow these and provide bus lanes, a separated bike path, wider sidewalk, or just 20 more feet of green space on either side.
A big issue is that it’s not transit friendly. A lot of Pierce College students would probably hang out here, but a lot of them take the bus. You literally need a car to get here or to pay for a very expensive overpriced uber.
Mixed use can't just give a consumer base but can also give the possibility to change shops into houses and houses into shops. My city has many 300 year old houses and they changed function many times over the century, for whatever is needed. Sometimes houses are merged to create a big space, sometimes they are split up again in smaller houses or apartments.
Current employee at The Village, rent for 1,732 square foot space is over 12k a month, and that’s with some special privileges because we’ve been here for 7+years
Man, that second shopping centre is beautiful! I wouldn't even have noticed it was a shopping centre if you had mentioned it, it blends in beautifully with each other. Didn't think it was still possible to build a shopping area with such architectural beauty today, everything just look like bland squares you enter and exit as quickly as possible these days...
The Palisades😢 Love the urban design flaws you noted with The Village. The project had a fighting chance, but Covid hit the center hard and it never recovered. I hope they enhance The Village with the recommendations you proposed!
The #1 reason stores and restaurants fail is that the rents are too high and they won't lower them to reflect the actual market because that lowers the value of the property, so spaces stay empty and the mall enters a death spiral.
lol I was the publicist on this project and worked very closely with the development team. Watching this brought back memories and oddly enough I’m in the valley now for the holidays though I’ve since moved to NY (where I worked on another retail development project that may end up on this channel.) if you have any questions on my experience working on this feel free to reach out
I visited the REI store at "Topanga Village" a few years back. Imagine having only three or four free parking spaces at an REI. All the other spaces required valet parking. Decades ago, a freestanding theater at the same location went broke and was torn down. Location, location, location.
The Grove / Farmers Market, is actually a place I can stay for hours without getting bored. You can nosh, drink wine, relax and read, watch people, play lottery at the news stand. However, it would be nice to see small affordable retail space, say 100 square feet or less, for service professionals like a shoe repair, tailoring, one chair barber, a crafter of some sort.
We lived fairly close when this mall opened and were more than willing to walk there - even crossing those busy roads. But after a few visits, we realized that there was really no reason to go there. As a Westfield development, we were puzzled that they didn't design it to feed in and out of the Westfield Topanga Mall more easily and blend the two as a single destination.
I agree. They could've even closed off Owensmouth from Victory to Vanowen and built on the east side of the mall, basically connecting it to the large mall. They could've even built a couple connecting bridges. There's a ton of room on that side, which would have made it a little more worthwhile to drive there and pay and park since you'd have much more dining and shopping options all in one large walkable area. It would've been a one stop destination. As it is now, for me, it's not worth the trouble to go there.
I’ve lived right across the street from here for two years, and I can count on one hand how many times I’ve actually gone over. You’re right-if the shops were closer to the street, I’d be more likely to visit.
If you are not limiting your studies to Los Angeles please investigate Sacramento. During the last six or eight years they've had a project in their rail yards. This involves l several hundred acres adjacent to the downtown area. It's a major revitalization project that I think has been put on hold including a professional soccer stadium. I hope you get a chance to do a video on Sacramento rail yards. You can easily find several videos pertaining to this property on TH-cam.
As someone who lives in Sacramento and has family roots in the area, I don't think this project is worth his time. I remember seeing illustrations of redevelopment plans in the newspaper back in the 90's and there have been new plans released periodically since then. Unfortunately the toxic soil issues that the rail companies won't pay for have dragged this plan to a virtual standstill. Perhaps a video about failed or stalled urban redevelopment projects would include this, but any analysis of proposals for the area make as much sense as critiquing the details of a child’s drawing of a city on the moon
this reminds me of manhattan village in manhattan beach, an indoor and outdoor mall that feels nice when you're in it but it it's floating in a sea of parking and big roads and has a whole lot of competition nearby like the point, plaza el segundo, manhattan marketplace and some random smaller spots
Right on the bullseye. No affordable quick or safe public transportation in/out and within the South Bay absolutely hampers the experience. Unfortunately, it’s all we’ve ever known.
Even with the palisades example it seems like these are town centers that are privately developed on privately owned land which just makes it seem unorganic and theme-parky no matter what
Malls started out in the 60s, and I was in my 20s, so I know the history of malls. In the 60s, a would have a Sears, Woodworth, 2 Department stores, a Bank, and a hardwear store. The bank and the hardware store are long gone. 😮Food courts did not come around until the 90s. One mall had an ice skating rink. The mall that had an ice skiing rink got rid of the rink and put in a food Cort in the 90s because the rink did produce as much as a food cort. Today, that mall is closed. Malls used to have community events. Community events are long gone. Malls used to have Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. They are long gone. Do you know one thing that you will never find in a mall? That is a clock. You see, your only purpose in a mall is to spend money. Now malls are in competition with Amazon. Most of the stores are high priced. Community events are long gone. The only reason to go to a mall is to buy overpriced goods. So, no one but the upper middle class go to malls.
People will shop where it is convinient. Malls are not placed with that in mind. Amazon is as convenient as a well placed close by store is, but since the latter is legislated out of existence, people use Amazon.
As a landscape architect, I can agree you hit the nail on the head with the main issue being location and accessibility. I go there quite frequently and absolutely agree. The amount of effort it takes go in and out is sometimes not worth it.
Just because you add in a butcher, a day care, or whatever shop does not mean it will be successful. The daycare may not meet the educational standards of some parents, the butcher may not serve quality meats, or the shops might be a poor fit for the areas demand. We can look at the City Place Mixed Use development in Long Beach as an example.
Please consider making a video about pre war Warsaw and how it was rebuilt as a completely different city. You could also talk about the planned reconstruction of the Saxon Palace.
I appreciate you advocating for better urban planning. Its a thing that is often taken for granted that affects everyone and everything. Maybe you could do a video talking about the "NOHO West" shopping center that opened in the valley aswell. I curious to see what you think about that places success.
Any reason the city does not allow for a bridge to connect Topanga mall and the village? Disney offices in Burbank have a bridge because those streets are to busy. Why not here? Instead they have trolleys that bus you there but who wants to wait around for a trolley
Also, let’s not forget majority of the shoppers at the social are your average snobs that treat the workers like absolute shit because they think themselves of higher class. My girlfriend works at a shop there and she deals with them on a daily basis. Why go to the social to surround yourself with a-holes that are full of it. Shame on that whole city and shopping center.
To go into the topanga village you need to go through a massive parking structure and pay for parking, so they really failed on the walkability front. Also most of the businesses are gentrified versions of real LA food and out of the price range for most people
Anaheim, who destroyed it's own once quaint downtown for a promised golden development that never materialized, now has it's failed Gardenwalk, and is currently building the OC Vibe, basically another Gardenwalk only more ambitious. Like the expensive train station across from the Honda Center, a ghost town since opening day, I don't see this becoming a destination, either. I hope I am wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting... also, The Source in Buena Park? Same thing, with slightly more of a pulse on weekends as it caters to the Korean community but it is sparsely populated most days I have visited out of curiosity. Great videos, very educational.
Oh, so Anaheim had a downtown? 🤔 the businesses change over so often at Gardenwalk, that it gives me whiplash. such a well positioned location. surprising that it's a deadmall. The Packinghouse seems to be doing better but that's a destination for eating.
LA needs a place like Ciudad Cayalá in Guatemala City a place that’s big with an outdoor mall like the Americana filled with venues or restaurants and so much more a place where everyone can meet up and hang out in LA or stay on a hotel on top of the shops
I was so excited for the village when it opened but I knew the shops wouldn’t last. Expensive clothing and sunglasses didn’t make sense with the mall next door. Restaurants had the best chance, and what I hoped they would do with the village they eventually did with Topanga social. It would have been amazing to have an outdoor topanga social with live music though
I live by here and have since it opened. I used to go here, the problem now is they have parking fees for everything there. They have a person handing out tickets left and right. It's expensive just to go there. Where as the mall across the street has free parking and it's just way better. I feel like the Westfield company was so smart to sell the village and create the Topanga Social. They knew where it was going.
The problem? They started building out this shopping center in an area with very low population density! IT's a stupid place to put a dense urban shopping mall!
We like the Village quite a bit and like to take our dogs there at night. Also there's a huge Costco there. And parking was always free for two hours. We go there fairly often. But it IS too small overall.
I parked there with out paying near the street in the prime parking and they immediately gave me a warning ticket that looked like a "Real Ticket" the police would give.
Everytime a mall is built with the upper rich in mind it fails miserably!! Even when SouthCoast Plaza was built, they knew how to please everyone due to their financial situation. The valley should have known better, it has a pretencious attitude, and that only worked 25 years ago... but not now and not anymore.
Reminds me in spirit of Easter European blocks. Something that was planned as a mini-community with a walkable center, but surrounded by huge car thoroughfares. Those quickly became just dormitories until decades later when development of communities organically happened.
Yh, n one of the key problems is that they never added any offices or any type of jobs in those districts, which means that you most likely will get a car to get to a job that is located in the other part of the city, n ts led to some crzy ass traffic. My favorite example is Kyiv, where the left part of the city (it's divided by a river) was built in the last 100 years by mostly soviets n now there's crazy traffic every day for people who're going from the left side to right for work n back to home))))
The Topanga Village development was a missed opportunity and poorly conceived. The property could have been so much more impactful as a mixed-use development. Instead, it fell short of meeting the needs of the community. Imagine how much value could have been added with condos, apartments, and a pedestrian-friendly design. A thoughtful, integrated development-where businesses are built up to the sidewalk-would have created a vibrant, walkable space that local residents could truly enjoy. Adding insult to injury, they charge for parking-a move that feels like a slap in the face to the neighborhood. Forcing local residents to pay just to shop is ridiculous and undermines the idea of accessibility. A development like this should serve the community, not create unnecessary barriers for the people it's meant to attract. As we've seen, the traditional mall concept no longer works in today’s world. Many malls are now abandoned shells of their former selves, as people increasingly gravitate toward simpler, more integrated shopping experiences. The current iteration of Topanga Village feels like a wasted opportunity for the neighborhood. Hopefully, the space can one day be reimagined into something that better serves the community and reflects the changing landscape of urban design.
This is the problem with all of these little outdoor malls. They are not organic. They are cosplaying urbanism in the middle of the suburbs. We have one in Simi Valley that has failed, even though there is a new massive apartment complex built right behind it with pedestrian access to the mall. It's cute, kind of Disney-esque, with restaurants and boutiques, but there aren't enough wealthy people here to support little art galleries and so on. The City has just proposed turning another commercially zoned street into a similar mixed use area which will have the same issues. I know urbanists love the idea of people walking around and bicycling to shops and taking mass transit, but when the buses don't run often enough or late enough, people working two or three jobs just don't have the time to use it. The jobs are not where the houses are, and there will be no jobs where the apartments are planned either. It will just be another few thousand people paying insane rents to rich corporations and having no place to park their cars when they get home from their Uber or Doordash or adjunct teaching gigs. They won't have enough disposable income to shop at the boutiques or eat at the restaurants.
Oh wow i hadn’t heard of this! Thats the movie theater that Pam goes to on the office right? So many office filming locations going out of business. Still sad that we lost home plate burgers in Reseda. That is a very nice plaza. Used to work in the area and went there often.
Some of these “island” destinations can work, but it has to “win” the competition against all other such destinations within a reasonable driving distance. If it’s the best place like it, it will steadily siphon business away from its competitors, at least until it gets too crowded. That’s why you can find similar examples that are not dying, just like there are some mega malls that are thriving. However, that means that *most* places like this are going to die off: if people have to drive, they will usually just drive to the better alternative.
There's just too much retail. Pacific Palisades works because it's also a destination area, no one's going out of their way to Topanga. Further, describing the problem within the limited parameters of urbanism, walk friendly & multi-use only underscores the myopic universe where these projects live. Further, Los Angeles and the valley lack the population density unlike vertically dense cities such as New York or Chicago that can support an equal density of retail options. And in New York this works at a neighborhood level, people don't need to take the subway for a half hour unless commuting to work at which point they're captured in a retail Rich environment for the day anyhow. Vertically dense centers tend to have high tourism concentrated in those areas to further support retail, LA's sprawl is a completely different animal where Urban Design parameters fail at a high rate. There's too many aimless wealthy people looking for something to do outside of their skill set resulting in these mindless projects.
I totally agree. I used to live in Simi Valley and drive down to the Topanga Mall quite often. To access the Topanga Village you have to drive into these narrow roads that leads to the parking structure that is also shared with Costco. During peak hours, the narrow roads leading into the Topanga Village get very congested and take longer than usual time to get in and out. At first it was a novelty, and eventually we just didn't want to go there anymore due to the headache of traffic congestion. In my opinion, it is a total failure. They tried to make it into a "chic" new experience like the Americana in Glendale, and the Grove in LA, but ended up just creating more problems for people. The large uncrossable streets Topanga Blvd. and Victory Blvd is an understatement. I have since moved back to Orange County and do not see myself ever returning.
Which is why I never understand the urbanist desire to kill parking. They act like making more walkable areas, which means the vast majority of folks will live in a walkable distance. No, most folks will commute from the suburbs. No buses or alternatives will be making their way towards the suburbs to bring folks to more walkable areas.
Great Job man. I liked the village a lot more when it was a big parking lot with a theater, Yankee Doodles, bank and Black Angus. A huge section of it also used to be a haunted house in October. :)
Well produced, and good critique, young man. What you’re describing as “could have been” sounds a lot like the shopping experience on San Fernando Road just south of Magnolia in Burbank. It’s a little bit of everything, from local shops to national chains. And it looks organic, even though it’s the work of many city planners and local banks and businesses. Keep up the good work!
Was there on an LA trip in 2017, I remember it being a nice outdoor mall with a lot of spaces for smaller independent shops. While it may have been subject to other changes, Covid has really hit malls and shopping plazas hard all over … online shopping has taken its toll as well.
Topanga Social across the street is failing as well as many of the food options are overpriced. I’m sure for the locals, it’s convenient to dine at these places and not have to travel to Glendale or DTLA to eat at the brick and mortar locations. Topanga Village’s failure? Westfield created it and not Rick Caruso, who created the successful The Grove and Americana at Brand.
I went there and got a phony parking citation because i did not pay the sign cue card posted in the tight parking lot. It was threating! i didn't pay because i though the sign was a fake. A guy literally waits to see you park and issues this citation and puts in on your window shield like a real parking ticket. I said never again would i go here!
OMG, I was just there visiting family from out of state. We went specifically for the VR zombie game place. As I was walking through the "mall" I had so many thoughts...And you laid out all of my "WTF did they do" questions in this video! Agree 100% on everything you stated. As well with the other comments people have made. This concept keeps being repeated???????
Sounded like this was a paid ad for Palisades Village, It is heartbreaking what happened there! In regards to the Village… not sure if you are a resident in the area or arent, but Village is actually a popular spot for residents in surrounding areas. I personally enjoy occasional stroll through the place, shopping at local stores (most of which are small businesses btw!!) and grabbing a bite at many of the restaurants there. Are some of the spaces empty? Yes. But thats a nature of all shopping centers in USA. Stores come and go, restaurants open and close. But having an ability to visit promenade with so many shopping and dining options is convenience not many people in America or even in Los Angeles have. If any of the commenters here havent been to Village, i highly recommend to visit and then decide for themselves if they like it or not.
It's also away from everything that's already established as a center: Panorama, downtown Van Nuys, Northridge Mall. By the looks of it, it's also a place of mostly expensive stores like with West Noho mall, where as the mentioned places has discounts shops or monetarily cheap items. In an area of LA county where most jobs wants to pay minimum unlivable wages, these plans never have the local working class in mind, just like the gentrified apartments and townhouses in the ghetto-est areas of SFV.
Topanga, Lancaster, Santa Clarita, Ontario, they were all areas that people would move to because it was a CHEAP place to live because there was nothing to do there, you can't just turn those areas into a mini los angeles
I worked and lived in Woodland Hills for 10 years. The summers are brutal. 100+ degrees is common. No one wants to walk around in that weather. The grove stays in the 80s maybe 90s when it’s really hot, but never gets above 100+. They’re planning to do something similar in the Valencia mall, which also gets 100+ degrees regularly in the summer. They already have something similar that is equally as dead as the indoor mall. The outdoor malls blew up with the success of the grove and the Americana. But they only work in certain areas. Even the third street promenade is dead now. I the direction they will go is combined shopping and living. With limited living space, these big malls will need to have some multi-family residences that can help to keep the shopping open. But it will need to be practical shopping. Like a target, a few restaurants/bars. High-end retail and novelty shops will die.
Excellent analysis...just 'decayed' to another 'out-door' mall. Pretty ironic that if the FAR-OLDER, enormous, Topanga 'indoor' mall across the street keeps renovating and addressing the >>SOCIAL
Im local to this, great video. Well done. The abandoned Rockedyne lot is tied up in investigations about it still being radiated from the prior rocket factory that resided there. So much so theres class action suits from residents in regards to it being the cause of their cancers. Also, I think the Palisades mall no longer exists due to the fire...
Can you talk about why Granada Hills doesn't have big chain restaurants or why they haven't re-developed in Chatsworth St shopping? Looks like a huge opportunity to make it into a "outdoor" mall like Woodland Hills tried to do
You have to pay to park? Screw that, at least other places give you a couple free hours to go in and get what you want. You want to be able to go in for small things like coffee or a quick bite, at least give the option to get your ticket validated.
As someone who lives in the area - the biggest issue is the Topanga Mall is across the street and 9 times out of 10, I'd rather go there. The only good thing about the village is that many of their restaurants are open later than the rest in the neighborhood
Top-down social engineering will always fail even in an authoritarian society, let alone a free one. Crossing the street is not the big issue for those in that housing development across the street compared to how much walking they have to do inside the "lifestyle center" itself--that's a ludicrous argument. You are in the bubble of this whole "walkable city" movement. Most of us are lazy and want to do as little walking--or even travel--as possible. I'd advise you to stop trying to foist your youthful enthusiasms on other people. Some folks, like the developers who dream up these idiocies, never grow up.
It’s declining because shop rents ,are out of control ! In my personal opinion shop malls should be built ,and controlled by local government . That’s the only way to control rents . Local brick and mortar retailers are being destroyed ! by property management companies .
Hey everyone. While I'm glad that you all are enjoying this video, I have some really bad news regarding Palisades Village. As I'm sure many of you have seen, the Palisades fire in the last day or so has completely devastated the entire neighborhood of The Pacific Palisades.
Lives have been lost, many hundreds if not thousands of homes and businesses are destroyed, and unfortunately, it seems that Palisades Village was lost in it all. This is a real tragedy, especially considering just how incredible the recent Palisades Village development was and how much it added to LA. Thoughts and prayers go towards the victims, their families, and anyone who has had their livelihood effected by these events.
Hope you're all having a wonderful 2025 so far and are safe wherever you are.
-Alexander
Damn, that's some unfortunate timing. Stay safe out there.
Man. I watched this video the day it came out. Couldn’t believe what happened just shortly after. Stay safe buddy.
"A walkable future." You're being groomed for the future of the planned '15 minute cities.' You'll need a permit to leave the cell you live in.
Hopefully this will give them an opportunity to rebuild to a denser, more fire-resistant standard, with an eventual high-capacity transit corridor serving that area. A lot of barriers to evacuation happened where people ended up having to flee on foot due to the car traffic and people ultimately abandoned their vehicles.
Update: the Caruso palisades village mall seems to be standing but only part of the village is damaged
This is just an outdoor shopping mall. If it was a real urbanist project, it would all be 4 stories tall with businesses on the first floor and residential on the upper three, transit access, bike parking and rental, etc. Building purely commercial real estate in the middle of a commercial real estate recession is dumb.
Thank you. I was terribly confused when I saw the project.
💯💯💯
It should have took inspiration from Santana Row in San Jose. Another Westfield project, so it’s not clear why they failed to repeat a success project that is also across the street from a huge mall
People hate living in the elevator shaft 2 bedroom homes that cost $1 million +.
A better example is in North Hollywood on Laurel Canyon
I live locally and I know why I don’t go there. It is very simple, the idiots who run it charging for parking. It is not the amount that they charge, but the absolutely unnecessary inconvenience of gates and tickets. Even if you get, I think, an hour and a half, free parking, you still have the hassle of waiting for five cars in front of you to get a ticket, and then when you leave waiting for another five cars to figure out how to open the gate to leave. One who lost the ticket and have to call support. Or if you don’t park in the parking structure, you have to find a ticket machine, remember the parking spot number, get a ticket, go back to your car and put the ticket on the dashboard. With 1 1/2 free, I think there are very few who actually pay parking, so this must be an overall cost for the owners/operators of The Village. There are plenty of options that has, as it used to be, free parking, so why having to have the inconvenience when it’s not necessary. I hope some of the people who runs the place will read my comment. I’ve written to them with my complaint getting, of course, no reply.
What a nightmare, they should heed your advice
so sorry you live in that dreadful area.
We live in Chatsworth. We never go there. We go anywhere, but.
The place is an overpriced madhouse.
Tickets are how all paid parking structures work. What's especially difficult about this one?
I don't particularly find the parking ticketing system to be an issue, as I'm never there for that length of time (an hour and a half). But, it's the fact that as the years have gone by, actually finding a parking space is a growing pain. And I always use the structure, I never come in through the back way (Costco), as that is a nightmare with all the grocery shoppers. Nor do I come in the front way (parking off of Topanga Canyon), because for some reason you have to pay for parking there - I guess because of convenience. Although Topanga facing parking isn't that convenient, as there aren't that many spaces to begin with so you may just be circling around there for a while to find something. It's just a sleepy little shopping center, with not that exciting shopping options. Westfield Topanga has everything you would want or need. The main reason I go there these days is for Cava, but that's only 3 or 4 times a month. And it's a quick in and out.
What killed it?: Charging for parking and crazy high rental space rates.
100%. Not only that - the actual parking is atrocious, so hard to park the car in convenient spots, and the shop selections weren't that interesting either
In Europe almost all small shops are rented by wealthy foreigners (East Europeans, Asians, some Africans) because most locals can not afford the rents anymore.
@@DR_1_1 Wut? LMAO that's the dumbest thing anybody could have said LMAO
It's a strip mall that you could find in any part of LA. Nothing special about it.
@@TheOtherKine Some people just can't stand facts, so they don't want others to tell about them.
"Wut... LMAO LMAO" doesn't sound dumb at all otoh!
I live in the Valley and this is plain and simple: money and lack of it. This is a working class area and none of us have shopping money. Rent takes everything in this area and jobs don’t pay well. That’s literally it. We don’t have money to shop or dine out. Prices are too high in the area, these stores are too high end, LA / Valley rents are way too high, wages are too low.
WE local working class shoppers/diners don't want to pay for Parking or Vallet Parking which takes up all the street level parking.
Kamala for governor
@@axidhaus She would ask Oprah and my party's mega-rich donors what to do to fix things for the rest of us .... right. Oh, wait that's why Trump is President again.
And we sure as hell don't have enough for TWO MALLS across the street from each other.
@@SeattleCoorain The next four years are going to be one hell of a clown show!
So, it’s cosplay urbanism. Actually it’s not even that, it’s just an outdoor shopping mall.
We had a nice one decades ago where I grew up, back when outdoor malls became popular. My parents even took us to see a Carter campaign speech there.
And of course, like most malls it’s gone now.
look at where they put these places nowhere near where people live it seems the car nuts build these places for other car nuts
It’s very similar to Fashion Island in Newport Beach, pedestrian walkways in the middle ringed by parking. Somehow even with subgrade parking entrances on the west side of Topanga Village, the pedestrian entrances still prioritize vehicles over pedestrians-which is almost hard to do!
@@toddjasper1 the reason those places are a lie the reason those places are for tourist not for locals except for the rich locals
@@newmobile1455haha “rich locals” and “locals” are the same in Newport Beach
@@toddjasper1 are local who are not rich alowed to join country clubs alowed in the rich gated comunities the answer is no their not so rich locals are not the same as locals
Great example with Pacific Palisades. I always notice the best malls in Europe have grocers, gyms, and many of the needed services to sustain locals even if I'm not using them.
Hold up, do u dont have groc stores in the malls, what even the point of mall if it doesnt have at least one big groc store inside of it
It’s the same story in South America, malls will always have things like a grocer/supermarket,a pharmacy, bank branches, restaurants (not just fast food) as well as bars.
Also they’re usually nearby a park as well as transit stops, apartment buildings and offices.
Supermarkets, cafes, locksmiths, banks, travel agents, butchers, greengrocers, bakeries, etc, is part of the retail landscape here in Australia and it's damn successful with high foot traffic 7 days a week. US malls just don't get it.
Yup. This was just a typical LA thing with a "label" as a "village" but it's just a bunch of pretentious retail shops, not a gathering spot
@@erphek2968 I live in LA. My local mall--Century City Mall--has two grocery stores: Eataly & Gelson's. The Pacific Palisades Mall, mentioned by the OP, has Erewhon. Most newer high end malls in LA have grocery stores (usually gourmet level and expensive). The older malls don't have that. This is mainly because grocery stores are better accessed in Strip Malls that allow easy car parking. It's hellish to get into my local Century City Mall. Parking is tight and very expensive. So, I have to really think about whether I want to go to that grocery store Eataly (which is the main reason why I visit that mall).
The reason that this area fails is the same as the reason that Charleston South Carolina succeeds - to be a success shopping and recreation must be within easy walking distance of where people live, but that is exactly what both these massive roads and "zoning" laws prevent. This post World War II practice of "you live here - you work a place that is far away - and you shop and seek services in a place that is far away from both of the above" is insane.
I agree
That and everything is overpriced and underwhelming. I was there yesterday and Athleta had closed. We went for lunch at the new eatery across the street and it the same overpriced and underwhelming.
I disagree pertaining to this specific centre.. The reason it has failed is because there is simply too many choices in that area. For one there is the large Westfield Topanga mall directly across the street and that mall received a massive redesign in 2008.
Two blocks south is the abandon Topanga Promenade which was the mall for high end stores. Three blocks west is Ralph's, Walmart and a closed Target. The area is a car dependent zone and always has been and that's not going to change even though the Metro has a bus line that goes into the area.. The newly built apartments and condos close the this centre are extremely expensive are aren't for the working or middle class. Two miles away is the wealthy area of Calabasas and this Topanga area is suppose to support Calabasas as well and guess what? These Calabasas residents drive to Topanga.. The centre failed because it wasn't needed especially when there is a huge indoor mall across the street.
@@mamadouaziza2536 really how do people get there uh they drive to those places there nowhere near where people live
@ and the wealthy on the north side will go to Porter Ranch, on the south side Sherman Oaks or into Beverly Hills because they want to be “seen.” I was hoping to rent an apartment but everything is uber expensive and not worth the dollars for square footage. Calabasas has The Commons, which has great places and stores that have done well and there’s also the Fallbrook mall with TJ Maxx Burlington, Target 24 HR fitness and Chuck E Cheese and Wal Mart. Nothing like great discount shopping.
So... it's a shitty lifestyle center?
100%. Typical LA, all-pretentious and no substance, overpriced uninteresting stereotypical shops
@@TheOtherKineTo look at this project as if it's representative of Los Angeles is lazy and disingenuous. LA is full of areas with a tons of interesting shops that developed organically; from Silver lake, to Los Feliz all the way to Santa West Hollywood and Monica.
@@parttimehuman Did you even watch the video? Why you attacking me? He's making a valid point about these suburban "island" type malls - not street front shop rows like in old parts of town like Silverlake
sheesh
@TheOtherKine lmao "why are you attacking me". soft
@@TheOtherKine I didn't attack you, I pointed out that it's disingenuous to pretend that the entire city is represented by this project in the valley. Also you called my city pretentious, with no substance and uninteresting. If you're gonna dish out shit like that, you better be prepared to have people call out it out as the bullshit that it is.
What I don’t understand is how billions of dollars are invested into these huge projects, “experts” hired left and right to research ahead of development, and they continue to get some of the most basic stuff completely and utterly wrong.
And not just wrong, but they are making the same exact mistakes just recently made in other areas. WTH is wrong with these people???
The thought process usually goes like "everyone in this city drives so we gotta have enough parking otherwise no one would come", and this then leads to making these "pedestrian islands" that are surrounded by surface parking lots, making them disconnected from the rest of the neighborhood.
Why don’t urbanist plans succeed? Because they aren’t realistic. But sure, keep plodding along.
@@Kodeb8 well yea but that goes into my point. By now there’s at least a decade or two of the same ol projects that have been tried and failed. You’d think by now someone would conclude that the surface lots are a major problem and they should be tucked away somewhere or otherwise be placed underground. That these huge projects should include a residential aspect to help them thrive. Some of what is clearly the basics.
Because the builders don't care if it's successful after or not. They just get paid for making the big project. That's all they care about.
Elitists who haven't walked in a real city in years.
A lot of people are ignoring the obvious - woodland hills is HOT AS FUCK.
You're spot on. Hottest temp in LA city limits (121 degrees) was recorded right here. I love it here /s
Ironically enough for me, the one time I walked through here was in the summer and it was over 100. Thats my memory of it.
And just an awful culture less wasteland of suburbia !
@@JackReedLAI encourage you to look up the definition of suburban, goofy
EXACTLY, this guy missed the biggest point
First of all, it is too hot in Woodland Hills for an outdoor mall. Second, it was done in a low budget way without the hoopla or careful selection of tenants that you find at a Caruso project. Finally, the anchor is a Costco. If you have been to Costco, chances are, you have a wagon full of food, with lots of it needing to get to the fridge or freezer. In other words, Costco shoppers are not going to hang out after they shop.
Yup, it is the hottest part of the valley, also Canoga Park and Chatsworth too.
it is not "too hot" in woodland hills for an outdoor mall open year round. it's open today and if you look outside it's a perfectly nice cool sunny day. even in july it's mostly fine unless you're 116 or welsh or something.
Woodland hills is a hellscape.
@@freezeaware9bruh it’s winter right now 😂😂 of course the weather is good.
Under the hot southern California sun, would I rather go to an outdoor mall heated up by the asphalt surrounded it or a nice comfy airconditioned indoor mall right next door?
As a Woodland Hills native, I can say that you hit everything about the Village right on the money. Your point about the Use of Space in the Village is deadly accurate and it sums up everything that's wrong with this site. Immense kudos to you my good sir
I live nearby as well. The Village has got nothing special. Early plans showed an open space down the middle, but redesigns left me disappointed after completion. It feels so constrained when you walk through it in a quick 5 minutes as mentioned in the video. We seldom ever go there because it's just not worth the hassle of the parking. Perimeter parking is tight and then there is the parking structure. Don't try to park on a Saturday morning in the structure - too much Costco traffic. This part of the valley needed something nice. Early plans showed a pedestrian overcrossing over Victory from the Westfield Topanga Mall, but that never materialized and I wonder if anyone would ever use it. Transient vendors in the stores means a lost consistent customer base.
So sorry you live in the worst part of LA county
There's also no nightlife there. The 24 Hour Fitness is the only thing that keeps it alive past 9 or 10.
Your description of these places as an "island" due to large uncrossable stroads around them, is spot on. The valley feels like 1000 little islands separated by these man-made dangerous rivers. They absolutely need to narrow the streets around there. They are hilariously overbuilt. I worked in the Warner Center and even during rush hour, there was always at least 1 or sometimes 2 completely empty car lanes. They can easily narrow these and provide bus lanes, a separated bike path, wider sidewalk, or just 20 more feet of green space on either side.
what is the point of a city if things are not close and within walking distance of each other
if they would build these place where people live so they can walk or cycle to them would be a better option
A big issue is that it’s not transit friendly. A lot of Pierce College students would probably hang out here, but a lot of them take the bus. You literally need a car to get here or to pay for a very expensive overpriced uber.
Mixed use can't just give a consumer base but can also give the possibility to change shops into houses and houses into shops. My city has many 300 year old houses and they changed function many times over the century, for whatever is needed. Sometimes houses are merged to create a big space, sometimes they are split up again in smaller houses or apartments.
Current employee at The Village, rent for 1,732 square foot space is over 12k a month, and that’s with some special privileges because we’ve been here for 7+years
Wow that is astronomical!
Wow! That’s insane. It’s almost like they want it to fail…
@@alexanderrotmensz Tax loss write-off against passive income capital gains.
@@alexanderrotmenszI would share that concern. They propably looking into expending the mall or looking for other space place a stadium.
Man, that second shopping centre is beautiful! I wouldn't even have noticed it was a shopping centre if you had mentioned it, it blends in beautifully with each other.
Didn't think it was still possible to build a shopping area with such architectural beauty today, everything just look like bland squares you enter and exit as quickly as possible these days...
The Palisades😢
Love the urban design flaws you noted with The Village. The project had a fighting chance, but Covid hit the center hard and it never recovered. I hope they enhance The Village with the recommendations you proposed!
The #1 reason stores and restaurants fail is that the rents are too high and they won't lower them to reflect the actual market because that lowers the value of the property, so spaces stay empty and the mall enters a death spiral.
lol I was the publicist on this project and worked very closely with the development team. Watching this brought back memories and oddly enough I’m in the valley now for the holidays though I’ve since moved to NY (where I worked on another retail development project that may end up on this channel.) if you have any questions on my experience working on this feel free to reach out
I visited the REI store at "Topanga Village" a few years back. Imagine having only three or four free parking spaces at an REI. All the other spaces required valet parking. Decades ago, a freestanding theater at the same location went broke and was torn down. Location, location, location.
Park across the street at the Promenade Mall for free.
The Grove / Farmers Market, is actually a place I can stay for hours without getting bored. You can nosh, drink wine, relax and read, watch people, play lottery at the news stand. However, it would be nice to see small affordable retail space, say 100 square feet or less, for service professionals like a shoe repair, tailoring, one chair barber, a crafter of some sort.
We lived fairly close when this mall opened and were more than willing to walk there - even crossing those busy roads. But after a few visits, we realized that there was really no reason to go there. As a Westfield development, we were puzzled that they didn't design it to feed in and out of the Westfield Topanga Mall more easily and blend the two as a single destination.
I agree. They could've even closed off Owensmouth from Victory to Vanowen and built on the east side of the mall, basically connecting it to the large mall. They could've even built a couple connecting bridges. There's a ton of room on that side, which would have made it a little more worthwhile to drive there and pay and park since you'd have much more dining and shopping options all in one large walkable area. It would've been a one stop destination. As it is now, for me, it's not worth the trouble to go there.
I’ve lived right across the street from here for two years, and I can count on one hand how many times I’ve actually gone over. You’re right-if the shops were closer to the street, I’d be more likely to visit.
I used to live in reseda but would drive over here and walk around after shopping at Costco😊
If you are not limiting your studies to Los Angeles please investigate Sacramento. During the last six or eight years they've had a project in their rail yards. This involves l several hundred acres adjacent to the downtown area. It's a major revitalization project that I think has been put on hold including a professional soccer stadium. I hope you get a chance to do a video on Sacramento rail yards. You can easily find several videos pertaining to this property on TH-cam.
As someone who lives in Sacramento and has family roots in the area, I don't think this project is worth his time. I remember seeing illustrations of redevelopment plans in the newspaper back in the 90's and there have been new plans released periodically since then. Unfortunately the toxic soil issues that the rail companies won't pay for have dragged this plan to a virtual standstill. Perhaps a video about failed or stalled urban redevelopment projects would include this, but any analysis of proposals for the area make as much sense as critiquing the details of a child’s drawing of a city on the moon
this reminds me of manhattan village in manhattan beach, an indoor and outdoor mall that feels nice when you're in it but it it's floating in a sea of parking and big roads and has a whole lot of competition nearby like the point, plaza el segundo, manhattan marketplace and some random smaller spots
Right on the bullseye. No affordable quick or safe public transportation in/out and within the South Bay absolutely hampers the experience. Unfortunately, it’s all we’ve ever known.
Was just thinking of that place too lol. Rosecrans is an ugly street and the parking lots take up too much space.
these places were designed by car nuts for other car nuts to use
Even with the palisades example it seems like these are town centers that are privately developed on privately owned land which just makes it seem unorganic and theme-parky no matter what
Malls started out in the 60s, and I was in my 20s, so I know the history of malls.
In the 60s, a would have a Sears, Woodworth, 2 Department stores, a Bank, and a hardwear store. The bank and the hardware store are long gone. 😮Food courts did not come around until the 90s. One mall had an ice skating rink.
The mall that had an ice skiing rink got rid of the rink and put in a food Cort in the 90s because the rink did produce as much as a food cort. Today, that mall is closed.
Malls used to have community events. Community events are long gone. Malls used to have Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. They are long gone.
Do you know one thing that you will never find in a mall? That is a clock.
You see, your only purpose in a mall is to spend money.
Now malls are in competition with Amazon.
Most of the stores are high priced. Community events are long gone.
The only reason to go to a mall is to buy overpriced goods.
So, no one but the upper middle class go to malls.
People will shop where it is convinient. Malls are not placed with that in mind. Amazon is as convenient as a well placed close by store is, but since the latter is legislated out of existence, people use Amazon.
@mozeskertesz6398 Amazon will have problems with vendors. Vendors mailing shoddy goods, and refusing to refund will be the end of Amazon.
As a landscape architect, I can agree you hit the nail on the head with the main issue being location and accessibility. I go there quite frequently and absolutely agree. The amount of effort it takes go in and out is sometimes not worth it.
I knew this would be a flop when they built it! excellent video and you hit the nail on the head with all the particulars!
Just because you add in a butcher, a day care, or whatever shop does not mean it will be successful. The daycare may not meet the educational standards of some parents, the butcher may not serve quality meats, or the shops might be a poor fit for the areas demand. We can look at the City Place Mixed Use development in Long Beach as an example.
Please consider making a video about pre war Warsaw and how it was rebuilt as a completely different city. You could also talk about the planned reconstruction of the Saxon Palace.
As a local, I love the analysis. It's rare to hear people talk about Canoga Park so this was a bit of a shock lol.
Local here as well and I totally agree. But I think the mall tries to associate itself more with the name Woodland Hills than poor Canoga Park lol.
I appreciate you advocating for better urban planning. Its a thing that is often taken for granted that affects everyone and everything. Maybe you could do a video talking about the "NOHO West" shopping center that opened in the valley aswell. I curious to see what you think about that places success.
Palisades is gone😢. Still built/done right
The neighborhood sadly yes 95% of it east of sunset blv.
The palisades Village mall is mostly still standing.
Lived in WH when this got completed.. it’s almost always had empty shops!
Any reason the city does not allow for a bridge to connect Topanga mall and the village? Disney offices in Burbank have a bridge because those streets are to busy. Why not here? Instead they have trolleys that bus you there but who wants to wait around for a trolley
Also, let’s not forget majority of the shoppers at the social are your average snobs that treat the workers like absolute shit because they think themselves of higher class. My girlfriend works at a shop there and she deals with them on a daily basis.
Why go to the social to surround yourself with a-holes that are full of it.
Shame on that whole city and shopping center.
To go into the topanga village you need to go through a massive parking structure and pay for parking, so they really failed on the walkability front. Also most of the businesses are gentrified versions of real LA food and out of the price range for most people
I went to REI there on Saturday 01/04/25. Parked, got what I wanted, and left. This critique is spot on.
Just because it is right next to the more popular topanga mall.
Great video! I really enjoy your content man. Keep it up 👍🏾🔥
Playa Vista seems like the best version of the mixed use urbanism you're talking about
I think you missed the biggest problem, it's an outdoor mall in an extremely hot area with temperatures that can reach above 110 during the summer
Anaheim, who destroyed it's own once quaint downtown for a promised golden development that never materialized, now has it's failed Gardenwalk, and is currently building the OC Vibe, basically another Gardenwalk only more ambitious. Like the expensive train station across from the Honda Center, a ghost town since opening day, I don't see this becoming a destination, either. I hope I am wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting... also, The Source in Buena Park? Same thing, with slightly more of a pulse on weekends as it caters to the Korean community but it is sparsely populated most days I have visited out of curiosity. Great videos, very educational.
Oh, so Anaheim had a downtown? 🤔 the businesses change over so often at Gardenwalk, that it gives me whiplash. such a well positioned location. surprising that it's a deadmall. The Packinghouse seems to be doing better but that's a destination for eating.
lol they really got away with another outdoor mall by calling it a village/town center. what an unfortunate waste
Palisades Village... is done
Seattle has had an outdoor mall, University Village since the 1950s. I'm surprised there aren't a lot more outdoor malls in LA.
LA needs a place like Ciudad Cayalá in Guatemala City a place that’s big with an outdoor mall like the Americana filled with venues or restaurants and so much more a place where everyone can meet up and hang out in LA or stay on a hotel on top of the shops
I was so excited for the village when it opened but I knew the shops wouldn’t last. Expensive clothing and sunglasses didn’t make sense with the mall next door. Restaurants had the best chance, and what I hoped they would do with the village they eventually did with Topanga social. It would have been amazing to have an outdoor topanga social with live music though
I live by here and have since it opened. I used to go here, the problem now is they have parking fees for everything there. They have a person handing out tickets left and right. It's expensive just to go there. Where as the mall across the street has free parking and it's just way better. I feel like the Westfield company was so smart to sell the village and create the Topanga Social. They knew where it was going.
The problem? They started building out this shopping center in an area with very low population density! IT's a stupid place to put a dense urban shopping mall!
3 days later burnt down?
We like the Village quite a bit and like to take our dogs there at night. Also there's a huge Costco there. And parking was always free for two hours. We go there fairly often. But it IS too small overall.
I parked there with out paying near the street in the prime parking and they immediately gave me a warning ticket that looked like a "Real Ticket" the police would give.
Everytime a mall is built with the upper rich in mind it fails miserably!! Even when SouthCoast Plaza was built, they knew how to please everyone due to their financial situation. The valley should have known better, it has a pretencious attitude, and that only worked 25 years ago... but not now and not anymore.
Reminds me in spirit of Easter European blocks. Something that was planned as a mini-community with a walkable center, but surrounded by huge car thoroughfares. Those quickly became just dormitories until decades later when development of communities organically happened.
Yh, n one of the key problems is that they never added any offices or any type of jobs in those districts, which means that you most likely will get a car to get to a job that is located in the other part of the city, n ts led to some crzy ass traffic. My favorite example is Kyiv, where the left part of the city (it's divided by a river) was built in the last 100 years by mostly soviets n now there's crazy traffic every day for people who're going from the left side to right for work n back to home))))
I love channels like this. Subscribed....
The Topanga Village development was a missed opportunity and poorly conceived. The property could have been so much more impactful as a mixed-use development. Instead, it fell short of meeting the needs of the community. Imagine how much value could have been added with condos, apartments, and a pedestrian-friendly design. A thoughtful, integrated development-where businesses are built up to the sidewalk-would have created a vibrant, walkable space that local residents could truly enjoy.
Adding insult to injury, they charge for parking-a move that feels like a slap in the face to the neighborhood. Forcing local residents to pay just to shop is ridiculous and undermines the idea of accessibility. A development like this should serve the community, not create unnecessary barriers for the people it's meant to attract.
As we've seen, the traditional mall concept no longer works in today’s world. Many malls are now abandoned shells of their former selves, as people increasingly gravitate toward simpler, more integrated shopping experiences. The current iteration of Topanga Village feels like a wasted opportunity for the neighborhood. Hopefully, the space can one day be reimagined into something that better serves the community and reflects the changing landscape of urban design.
This is the problem with all of these little outdoor malls. They are not organic. They are cosplaying urbanism in the middle of the suburbs. We have one in Simi Valley that has failed, even though there is a new massive apartment complex built right behind it with pedestrian access to the mall. It's cute, kind of Disney-esque, with restaurants and boutiques, but there aren't enough wealthy people here to support little art galleries and so on. The City has just proposed turning another commercially zoned street into a similar mixed use area which will have the same issues.
I know urbanists love the idea of people walking around and bicycling to shops and taking mass transit, but when the buses don't run often enough or late enough, people working two or three jobs just don't have the time to use it. The jobs are not where the houses are, and there will be no jobs where the apartments are planned either. It will just be another few thousand people paying insane rents to rich corporations and having no place to park their cars when they get home from their Uber or Doordash or adjunct teaching gigs. They won't have enough disposable income to shop at the boutiques or eat at the restaurants.
Can you do a video on Calabasas Commons (Caruso)? They are going to convert the movie theater to apartments.
Oh wow i hadn’t heard of this! Thats the movie theater that Pam goes to on the office right? So many office filming locations going out of business. Still sad that we lost home plate burgers in Reseda. That is a very nice plaza. Used to work in the area and went there often.
Some of these “island” destinations can work, but it has to “win” the competition against all other such destinations within a reasonable driving distance. If it’s the best place like it, it will steadily siphon business away from its competitors, at least until it gets too crowded. That’s why you can find similar examples that are not dying, just like there are some mega malls that are thriving. However, that means that *most* places like this are going to die off: if people have to drive, they will usually just drive to the better alternative.
U can’t have a village without villagers. Tourists aren’t villagers (or neighbors or citizens). Y isn’t there any housing above the retail????????
There's just too much retail. Pacific Palisades works because it's also a destination area, no one's going out of their way to Topanga. Further, describing the problem within the limited parameters of urbanism, walk friendly & multi-use only underscores the myopic universe where these projects live. Further, Los Angeles and the valley lack the population density unlike vertically dense cities such as New York or Chicago that can support an equal density of retail options. And in New York this works at a neighborhood level, people don't need to take the subway for a half hour unless commuting to work at which point they're captured in a retail Rich environment for the day anyhow. Vertically dense centers tend to have high tourism concentrated in those areas to further support retail, LA's sprawl is a completely different animal where Urban Design parameters fail at a high rate. There's too many aimless wealthy people looking for something to do outside of their skill set resulting in these mindless projects.
...well, that dated quickly...
I totally agree. I used to live in Simi Valley and drive down to the Topanga Mall quite often. To access the Topanga Village you have to drive into these narrow roads that leads to the parking structure that is also shared with Costco. During peak hours, the narrow roads leading into the Topanga Village get very congested and take longer than usual time to get in and out. At first it was a novelty, and eventually we just didn't want to go there anymore due to the headache of traffic congestion. In my opinion, it is a total failure. They tried to make it into a "chic" new experience like the Americana in Glendale, and the Grove in LA, but ended up just creating more problems for people. The large uncrossable streets Topanga Blvd. and Victory Blvd is an understatement. I have since moved back to Orange County and do not see myself ever returning.
LIMITED PARKING KILLS THE WHOLE VIBE
Nah. /
Which is why I never understand the urbanist desire to kill parking. They act like making more walkable areas, which means the vast majority of folks will live in a walkable distance. No, most folks will commute from the suburbs. No buses or alternatives will be making their way towards the suburbs to bring folks to more walkable areas.
Great Job man. I liked the village a lot more when it was a big parking lot with a theater, Yankee Doodles, bank and Black Angus. A huge section of it also used to be a haunted house in October. :)
Well produced, and good critique, young man.
What you’re describing as “could have been” sounds a lot like the shopping experience on San Fernando Road just south of Magnolia in Burbank. It’s a little bit of everything, from local shops to national chains. And it looks organic, even though it’s the work of many city planners and local banks and businesses.
Keep up the good work!
Was there on an LA trip in 2017, I remember it being a nice outdoor mall with a lot of spaces for smaller independent shops. While it may have been subject to other changes, Covid has really hit malls and shopping plazas hard all over … online shopping has taken its toll as well.
Great job on another quality video we can learn so much from. Keep it up.
Interesting video. I just got taken to the village for the first time ever over the weekend. I definitely see all the problems you outlined.
~Trav
Topanga Social across the street is failing as well as many of the food options are overpriced. I’m sure for the locals, it’s convenient to dine at these places and not have to travel to Glendale or DTLA to eat at the brick and mortar locations.
Topanga Village’s failure? Westfield created it and not Rick Caruso, who created the successful The Grove and Americana at Brand.
I've been to the Social only a couple times and live in WH. I agree, it seems like an overpriced food court.
I went there and got a phony parking citation because i did not pay the sign cue card posted in the tight parking lot. It was threating! i didn't pay because i though the sign was a fake. A guy literally waits to see you park and issues this citation and puts in on your window shield like a real parking ticket. I said never again would i go here!
Just park in the parking deck close to Costco. You get an hour and a half for free, and don’t need to pay.
OMG, I was just there visiting family from out of state. We went specifically for the VR zombie game place. As I was walking through the "mall" I had so many thoughts...And you laid out all of my "WTF did they do" questions in this video! Agree 100% on everything you stated. As well with the other comments people have made. This concept keeps being repeated???????
They did the same open space bull shit to Sherman Oaks Galleria and it’s dead there too.
Sounded like this was a paid ad for Palisades Village, It is heartbreaking what happened there! In regards to the Village… not sure if you are a resident in the area or arent, but Village is actually a popular spot for residents in surrounding areas. I personally enjoy occasional stroll through the place, shopping at local stores (most of which are small businesses btw!!) and grabbing a bite at many of the restaurants there. Are some of the spaces empty? Yes. But thats a nature of all shopping centers in USA. Stores come and go, restaurants open and close. But having an ability to visit promenade with so many shopping and dining options is convenience not many people in America or even in Los Angeles have. If any of the commenters here havent been to Village, i highly recommend to visit and then decide for themselves if they like it or not.
yikes rip palisades
It's also away from everything that's already established as a center: Panorama, downtown Van Nuys, Northridge Mall. By the looks of it, it's also a place of mostly expensive stores like with West Noho mall, where as the mentioned places has discounts shops or monetarily cheap items. In an area of LA county where most jobs wants to pay minimum unlivable wages, these plans never have the local working class in mind, just like the gentrified apartments and townhouses in the ghetto-est areas of SFV.
You're channel is AWSOME 😊
Topanga, Lancaster, Santa Clarita, Ontario, they were all areas that people would move to because it was a CHEAP place to live because there was nothing to do there, you can't just turn those areas into a mini los angeles
Topanga *is* the City of Los Angeles though... (not the other areas you mentioned).
Hate to say this but might Caruso have done it better?
I worked and lived in Woodland Hills for 10 years. The summers are brutal. 100+ degrees is common. No one wants to walk around in that weather. The grove stays in the 80s maybe 90s when it’s really hot, but never gets above 100+. They’re planning to do something similar in the Valencia mall, which also gets 100+ degrees regularly in the summer. They already have something similar that is equally as dead as the indoor mall.
The outdoor malls blew up with the success of the grove and the Americana. But they only work in certain areas. Even the third street promenade is dead now. I the direction they will go is combined shopping and living. With limited living space, these big malls will need to have some multi-family residences that can help to keep the shopping open. But it will need to be practical shopping. Like a target, a few restaurants/bars. High-end retail and novelty shops will die.
they should just give you the contract to redesign it already!
Excellent analysis...just 'decayed' to another 'out-door' mall. Pretty ironic that if the FAR-OLDER, enormous, Topanga 'indoor' mall across the street keeps renovating and addressing the >>SOCIAL
Im local to this, great video. Well done. The abandoned Rockedyne lot is tied up in investigations about it still being radiated from the prior rocket factory that resided there. So much so theres class action suits from residents in regards to it being the cause of their cancers. Also, I think the Palisades mall no longer exists due to the fire...
Can you talk about why Granada Hills doesn't have big chain restaurants or why they haven't re-developed in Chatsworth St shopping? Looks like a huge opportunity to make it into a "outdoor" mall like Woodland Hills tried to do
Projects like this need "vibe" to succeed. It needs to feel like a space you could have a good time just leisurely strolling about.
so they asked the makers of shitty malls to do something different and OH LOOK A SHITTY MALL?
You have to pay to park? Screw that, at least other places give you a couple free hours to go in and get what you want. You want to be able to go in for small things like coffee or a quick bite, at least give the option to get your ticket validated.
As someone who lives in the area - the biggest issue is the Topanga Mall is across the street and 9 times out of 10, I'd rather go there. The only good thing about the village is that many of their restaurants are open later than the rest in the neighborhood
Great video! 😊
Bless your heart to have done all this work & now , a week later, LA’s straight burnt to the ground. Damn nature, you scary.
You are so spot on in your assessment.
Top-down social engineering will always fail even in an authoritarian society, let alone a free one.
Crossing the street is not the big issue for those in that housing development across the street compared to how much walking they have to do inside the "lifestyle center" itself--that's a ludicrous argument.
You are in the bubble of this whole "walkable city" movement. Most of us are lazy and want to do as little walking--or even travel--as possible.
I'd advise you to stop trying to foist your youthful enthusiasms on other people. Some folks, like the developers who dream up these idiocies, never grow up.
A walkable bridge or tunnel connecting the mall and the village would increase foot traffic to the village. Basically they should connect the islands.
It’s declining because shop rents ,are out of control ! In my personal opinion shop malls should be built ,and controlled by local government . That’s the only way to control rents . Local brick and mortar retailers are being destroyed ! by property management companies .
I was there within a few weeks of its opening - the parking was terrible and the signage to find the store you were there for was also terrible