Having a lot of academic achievements doesn't necessarily mean you were more academically engaged. It means you have a lot of time. I was taking care of my mother and my sister while getting my bachelors and working. No help from family. I did well academically, but I don't have one award, or numerous extracurricular activities on my resume. I think it's sad the way admissions judge people.
So you're minimizing and belittling academic achievements. I agree that there are students like you who don't have the time. However, be happy for those who succeed. I worked hard for my achievements. Nothing discredits hard work
I’m a high school senior interested in law school and this video basically hit two birds with one stone. First off I’m learning about what I should do when I’m in college to maximize my chances of acceptance. On top of that I’m also learning how my college application should be formatted since I assume that aspects here relate a lot to college admissions. Great video, thanks so much!
Could y'all do a video about applicants who worked full time during undergrad and what law schools look for since its unlikely these applicants have a lot of extra curriculars?
It's superfluous to write an addendum on the lsat score increase. obviously she tweaked her study approach and made some other changes. Also that score difference could have been the difference of getting an adittional 5 questions correct...there's almost no point of doing one. and then for the reviewer to immediately say that the applicant has an "information overload" is contradictory. The subjectivity of admissions is clear in this video.
It’s weird she says the LSAT score improvement needed an addendum explaining. I would think the obvious answer is that the applicant studied more or took a course. Isn’t that how scores improve?
To be honest, I don't think the admissions people can tell the difference. It's not like they have time to call up contacts at all of the alleged extracurriculars and ask how much involvement the applicant really had. Please check out my recent videos about whether going to law school is a good decision.
The difference between padding and substance is the difference between breadth and depth. Ideally, you should have both - participate in a lot of things and participate deeply in just a few. Resume padding becomes a bad thing when you have breadth but no depth.
7. How does Eden respond to Asian American's argument? a. Eden ignores "please check out my recent videos" b. Eden responds in a way where she interprets the word "padded" in a different way than Asian American. c. Eden disagrees with the validity one of Asian's premises d. Eden uses the same premises but falls on a different conclusion
I wish for the future that the admissions staff would roughly weigh the value of things in the app. To some it might be helpful to critique the minutiae of a resume or personal statement, but if that same application was already going to be trashed for its LSAT or GPA, that's way more helpful than treating everything equally. I mean the truth is it doesn't really matter if one's resume is ill-formatted if one has a 4.0/180. If the application is going in the "accept" pile soon after reading, that's helpful to know.
I agree. This is such a disheartening video, but good to know how things work behind the scene: if it's easy to read, then good. If you have too much stuff for us to read, then not good...
Joining ten extracurriculars, but not having a leadership position in any of them. Volunteering, but only for an hour a month. Collecting random skills and certifications with no relation to your interests.
She talks about consistent formatting, the school I applied to had an optional essay with a 12pt font requirement. However, no requirement like that existed for the PS, but the PS was limited to 3 pages. I had my PS at 3 pages at a 11pt font, and had to do my optional at a 12pt font. I hope that won’t hurt me
My son was working full time and going to school a full time, and in 4 years he learned several world languages, including Mandarin Chinese. He got 3.8 GPA, which an incredible achievement, considering every he had done. But, according to this admission person that ls not enough to get an admission to University of Chicago Law School, right??
This reminds me of what Daniel Kannehman says about decision making. Many times, decisions can be made based on potentially superflous things such as format, font (he specifically gives examples on how font that is clearer leads to a greater confidence in what one is reading), and other things that simply mesh well with the admissions officer's intuitive judgment. This is a big problem because we would proabbly all agree that no advantage should be gained from such superficial things.
Schools can't see how many times you've requested to see your transcript. I think the applicant said that she hadn't looked at her grades in her GPA addendum and that was the reason why her GPA was below the median.
3.75 gpa, 176 lsat, and outstanding academic achievements + involvement and still a waitlist? its not like universities teach courses about how to write a resume? wtf
Actually, mine did. It wasn’t a separate course, but it was part of the curriculum for each dept across the university. Can’t lie, it definitely helped 💯
My guess is that this way the student gets to write a "letter of continued interest" in which she explains the parts that are unclear, in particular what she is doing now, and probably gets in after this and because of this. Unless meanwhile she has, say, been admitted to Yale Law... in that case she'll just say "no thanks".
How heavy do you guys weigh masters degrees in application. Example: my undergrad degree was a 3.5 but I hold two masters one is an MBA and another in computer engineering both at a 3.7 GPA. So do those weigh heavier or does the fact that the schools ugpa gets recorded with lsat that my undergrad GPA is what you look for?
Unfortunately LSAC just reports your undergrad gpa and that is what law schools have to use when measuring their medians, so it is weighted more heavily. That’s not to say that your masters gpa won’t be considered at all though.
No, that’s the issue with admissions. They get so many applicants that they cannot possibly verify all the claims students make. I’m sure that means people who exaggerate their accomplishments more tend to get in over those who don’t.
@@ts-ns3xj thats how it works for every school but the applicant states she'd never seen or asked for her grades, even unofficially. like she never bothered to look.
This is interesting to me, since a softer major (polisci/English) could represent a much, much easier degree. I'm surprised you care about a 4.0 when, say, an engineer with even a 3.7 or 3.8 could represent a more significant workload and less opportunity/time for superficial involvement.
I’m sorry but this lady sounds so annoying. This is what is wrong with the hiring and education system. It’s captured when she says “his resume is 2 whole pages WOW” I’ve heard people with more credentials than her say things like never make your resume longer than a page. There is no standard for this stuff. Someone’s odds of getting into a school can be determined based on the admissions counselor’s opinion about how long a resume should be……
Yep. She is impressed with the dumbest shit. The statement she made that "I can tell this applicant didn't just do things to put them on a resume" blew my mind. There is no possible way you could know that from an application. If anything, having a " two page resume" shows that you did in fact do things solely for your resume, as if you were truly dedicated to certain projects you wouldn't have done enough random activities to fill two pages
I don’t think it’s fair to look down upon community college, I had to start that way to take care of my fam. Since I’ll be applying to law school it’ll be harder for me bc of the stigma? 😂
I can't imagine being the person who decides if a person gets to have a happy and successful life, based on razor thin margins. "Oh, your application is a little cluttered and your GPA is a fraction of a point too low? Ho-hum.....I dunno. You went out of your way to volunteer your time in a 3rd world country? Yeah, who hasn't? Maybe you're better off making 40k a year as a substitute teacher?"
Just college, but if you took any high school classes for college credit (for example, AP or dual enrollment classes) and that credit was applied to your college transcript, then those grades will factor into your GPA.
This is way too subjective. There should be simple and clear academic requirements for admission. This comes across as very picky and for superficial reasons. A 3.7 gpa and 176 lsat should be an automatic yes from any law school! So many lawyers that vlog their journey before, during and after graduation say that law school doesn't prepare you to practice law. It's the work experience in the law firm that makes you a lawyer. Why wait-list someone who's clearly shown they can achieve?? Dumb.
Because they have a 3.9 179 they can accept instead. Those stats shouldn’t be an automatic yes at the t14, and they aren’t. There are too many 175+ scorers for every single one to be an auto admit.
Lol...I grew up playing sports and my G.P.A. wasn’t of importance. My LSAT score isn’t the greatest, some of the “Vernacular “ is/was foreign to me. Hummmm, that alone disqualified or disqualifies me from the majority of law schools and their medians. But, •I grew up with a couple lawyers. •My adaptation skills are phenomenal. •Spanish and English (fluently) are part of my repertoire. (Yo hablo espanol un cien porciento) •Reading and researching is and has always been something I enjoy. •I’ve assisted in many trials.(trial/discovery notebooks, client interviews, strategic strategy, research...) The list goes on and on. Acting has always come naturally to me and have been on numerous Latin American main stream shows. I’ve been offered numerous athletic scholarships, but not certain law schools due to status quo or subjective analysis and reasoning.
Having a lot of academic achievements doesn't necessarily mean you were more academically engaged. It means you have a lot of time. I was taking care of my mother and my sister while getting my bachelors and working. No help from family. I did well academically, but I don't have one award, or numerous extracurricular activities on my resume. I think it's sad the way admissions judge people.
what do you expect?
So you're minimizing and belittling academic achievements. I agree that there are students like you who don't have the time. However, be happy for those who succeed. I worked hard for my achievements. Nothing discredits hard work
gshock knick here’s the gold metal you wanted 🥇
Caitlin Gold perfect. Thank you
Then that is a good topic to write about for your personal statement. I'm sure that would be a very compelling case if you had family obligations.
Two things that I learned from this video 1) I suck 2) I suck, thank you for coming to my TED talk
no, you don't suck. this lady does and do not take on the projection of her own lack of realization as yours. You are just fine!
I’m a high school senior interested in law school and this video basically hit two birds with one stone. First off I’m learning about what I should do when I’m in college to maximize my chances of acceptance. On top of that I’m also learning how my college application should be formatted since I assume that aspects here relate a lot to college admissions. Great video, thanks so much!
This was super helpful. I’d love to see more of this type of video with some former admissions officers from different law schools!
We have 3 more coming!
Could y'all do a video about applicants who worked full time during undergrad and what law schools look for since its unlikely these applicants have a lot of extra curriculars?
right......
Yes, thank you. I was like uhhh... yes it is very easy to be involved if you don't have a job.
The University of Chicago does not accept applicants from lower classes.
@@LindseySuson Trust fund babies sure do have a lot of time on their hands to do what their high paid personal academic advisors tell them to do.
It's superfluous to write an addendum on the lsat score increase. obviously she tweaked her study approach and made some other changes. Also that score difference could have been the difference of getting an adittional 5 questions correct...there's almost no point of doing one. and then for the reviewer to immediately say that the applicant has an "information overload" is contradictory. The subjectivity of admissions is clear in this video.
she is fishing for " accommodations" for the later score increase...
Lol it might be superfluous to you, but to someone who wants to get into this law school they should right one.
@@dragonflarefrog1424 write*
It’s weird she says the LSAT score improvement needed an addendum explaining. I would think the obvious answer is that the applicant studied more or took a course. Isn’t that how scores improve?
No, LSAT addendums are common. You need to explain score increases like that.
3.75 176 waitlisted bruhhhhhh
Holy crap lol
@@NightCrafted she must have been a Trump supporter.
@@elliottmoore4835 isn't Uchicago conservative?
@@NightCrafted Not at all 😂
I mean it is UChicago, easily a top 5 law school. I’m sure they get plenty of applicants with higher numbers
More! This was really great. Can we see a true splitter? And a reject?
More are coming!
how would you differentiate between a substantial and a padded resume?
To be honest, I don't think the admissions people can tell the difference. It's not like they have time to call up contacts at all of the alleged extracurriculars and ask how much involvement the applicant really had. Please check out my recent videos about whether going to law school is a good decision.
The difference between padding and substance is the difference between breadth and depth. Ideally, you should have both - participate in a lot of things and participate deeply in just a few. Resume padding becomes a bad thing when you have breadth but no depth.
7. How does Eden respond to Asian American's argument?
a. Eden ignores "please check out my recent videos"
b. Eden responds in a way where she interprets the word "padded" in a different way than Asian American.
c. Eden disagrees with the validity one of Asian's premises
d. Eden uses the same premises but falls on a different conclusion
I wish for the future that the admissions staff would roughly weigh the value of things in the app. To some it might be helpful to critique the minutiae of a resume or personal statement, but if that same application was already going to be trashed for its LSAT or GPA, that's way more helpful than treating everything equally. I mean the truth is it doesn't really matter if one's resume is ill-formatted if one has a 4.0/180. If the application is going in the "accept" pile soon after reading, that's helpful to know.
I agree. This is such a disheartening video, but good to know how things work behind the scene: if it's easy to read, then good. If you have too much stuff for us to read, then not good...
This is extremely helpful. Thank you for posting.
She mentioned 'padding' on resumes and I have an idea of what that could look like but could anyone give me an example? Thanks
Joining ten extracurriculars, but not having a leadership position in any of them. Volunteering, but only for an hour a month. Collecting random skills and certifications with no relation to your interests.
168 to 175 is a big jump? On the LSAT, that is like 3 questions. Ive taken PTs days apart and gotten like 10 point differences.
but those three questions matters the most. percentile wise she made jump from 95% to 99.9% she basically went from one among 20 to one among 1000
this shows you how much the " reader" knows about the lsat or even the resume for that matter. Unreal!
That is absolutely not like 3 questions, lmao
@@amadross9781 Yeah, on the modern lsat it’s more like 6 or 7. That’s fairly substantial on a 75 to 76 question test.
She talks about consistent formatting, the school I applied to had an optional essay with a 12pt font requirement. However, no requirement like that existed for the PS, but the PS was limited to 3 pages. I had my PS at 3 pages at a 11pt font, and had to do my optional at a 12pt font. I hope that won’t hurt me
Incredibly helpful video as a rising senior in undergrad. Would love to see a video from Penn and some of the other T14s!
Get at least a 3.8 grade point average and 167 or above on the LSAT. Extracurriculars are just icing on the cake.
Best of luck on your journey.
I'm not interested in law school, but this was super helpful. Thank you!
My son was working full time and going to school a full time, and in 4 years he learned several world languages, including Mandarin Chinese. He got 3.8 GPA, which an incredible achievement, considering every he had done. But, according to this admission person that ls not enough to get an admission to University of Chicago Law School, right??
Any thoughts on supersplitters?
Thank you for this video! This has me wishing so badly I could hear what adcoms thought of my applications.
Compare a 4 year student who goes away to college compared to a community college student who has to do school work on top of their regular life.
Ha! You actually think these upper crust folks think about community college students going to work full time? Better be a URM my friend.
@@aaronwest1055 to be fair, never had heard of U of Chicago till this video.
@@SuperBigshot99 UChicago is ranked #3 law school so if you’re applying to law school there’s no way you’ve never heard of it
@@SuperBigshot99Then you likely aren’t ever entering the legal field.
Great video, but that's a cardioid microphone and it should not be pointed like that
🤣...
With a 4.0 gpa most likely not going to be a uchicago undergraduate student, just saying.
Agree. A 4.0 means you should have went to a more rigorous school 😁😂😁
Uchicago is easily a top 5 school overall. What are you smoking lmao
@@Onunez23 they are saying because he got a 4.0 they went to a weak school and chose an easy degree.
This reminds me of what Daniel Kannehman says about decision making. Many times, decisions can be made based on potentially superflous things such as format, font (he specifically gives examples on how font that is clearer leads to a greater confidence in what one is reading), and other things that simply mesh well with the admissions officer's intuitive judgment. This is a big problem because we would proabbly all agree that no advantage should be gained from such superficial things.
Wait ... admissions can see how many times you’ve requested to see your transcript?
Schools can't see how many times you've requested to see your transcript. I think the applicant said that she hadn't looked at her grades in her GPA addendum and that was the reason why her GPA was below the median.
3.75 gpa, 176 lsat, and outstanding academic achievements + involvement and still a waitlist? its not like universities teach courses about how to write a resume? wtf
Actually, mine did. It wasn’t a separate course, but it was part of the curriculum for each dept across the university. Can’t lie, it definitely helped 💯
My guess is that this way the student gets to write a "letter of continued interest" in which she explains the parts that are unclear, in particular what she is doing now, and probably gets in after this and because of this. Unless meanwhile she has, say, been admitted to Yale Law... in that case she'll just say "no thanks".
How heavy do you guys weigh masters degrees in application. Example: my undergrad degree was a 3.5 but I hold two masters one is an MBA and another in computer engineering both at a 3.7 GPA. So do those weigh heavier or does the fact that the schools ugpa gets recorded with lsat that my undergrad GPA is what you look for?
Unfortunately LSAC just reports your undergrad gpa and that is what law schools have to use when measuring their medians, so it is weighted more heavily. That’s not to say that your masters gpa won’t be considered at all though.
This is SO helpful!!!!!! Thank you so much!
Do admissions officers confirm these academic achievements?
No, that’s the issue with admissions. They get so many applicants that they cannot possibly verify all the claims students make. I’m sure that means people who exaggerate their accomplishments more tend to get in over those who don’t.
How about a foreign student who wants to continue his master studies in the us ?!
she probably looked at the unofficial transcripts for her grades or some other medium. why would she pay to see her official GPA?
No in her personal statement she stated herself that she never requested or tried to see what her GPA was which was her explanation for why it was low
@@darrenjiang967 well at my school you just sign in to your school account and see
@@ts-ns3xj thats how it works for every school but the applicant states she'd never seen or asked for her grades, even unofficially. like she never bothered to look.
This is interesting to me, since a softer major (polisci/English) could represent a much, much easier degree. I'm surprised you care about a 4.0 when, say, an engineer with even a 3.7 or 3.8 could represent a more significant workload and less opportunity/time for superficial involvement.
I’m sorry but this lady sounds so annoying. This is what is wrong with the hiring and education system. It’s captured when she says “his resume is 2 whole pages WOW” I’ve heard people with more credentials than her say things like never make your resume longer than a page. There is no standard for this stuff. Someone’s odds of getting into a school can be determined based on the admissions counselor’s opinion about how long a resume should be……
It is helpful tho lol
Yep. She is impressed with the dumbest shit. The statement she made that "I can tell this applicant didn't just do things to put them on a resume" blew my mind. There is no possible way you could know that from an application. If anything, having a " two page resume" shows that you did in fact do things solely for your resume, as if you were truly dedicated to certain projects you wouldn't have done enough random activities to fill two pages
I don’t think it’s fair to look down upon community college, I had to start that way to take care of my fam. Since I’ll be applying to law school it’ll be harder for me bc of the stigma? 😂
tysm
I can't imagine being the person who decides if a person gets to have a happy and successful life, based on razor thin margins. "Oh, your application is a little cluttered and your GPA is a fraction of a point too low? Ho-hum.....I dunno. You went out of your way to volunteer your time in a 3rd world country? Yeah, who hasn't? Maybe you're better off making 40k a year as a substitute teacher?"
does your highschool gpa count for when applying to law school or just college?
Just college, but if you took any high school classes for college credit (for example, AP or dual enrollment classes) and that credit was applied to your college transcript, then those grades will factor into your GPA.
Community college credits killed the application by her tone
You can hear the snobbery in her tone. Hope adcomms like her will fade out over the years.
This is way too subjective. There should be simple and clear academic requirements for admission. This comes across as very picky and for superficial reasons. A 3.7 gpa and 176 lsat should be an automatic yes from any law school! So many lawyers that vlog their journey before, during and after graduation say that law school doesn't prepare you to practice law. It's the work experience in the law firm that makes you a lawyer. Why wait-list someone who's clearly shown they can achieve?? Dumb.
Because they have a 3.9 179 they can accept instead. Those stats shouldn’t be an automatic yes at the t14, and they aren’t. There are too many 175+ scorers for every single one to be an auto admit.
Greeting and thanks
Lol...I grew up playing sports and my G.P.A. wasn’t of importance. My LSAT score isn’t the greatest, some of the “Vernacular “ is/was foreign to me.
Hummmm, that alone disqualified or disqualifies me from the majority of law schools and their medians.
But,
•I grew up with a couple lawyers.
•My adaptation skills are phenomenal.
•Spanish and English (fluently) are part of my repertoire. (Yo hablo espanol un cien porciento)
•Reading and researching is and has always been something I enjoy.
•I’ve assisted in many trials.(trial/discovery notebooks, client interviews, strategic strategy, research...)
The list goes on and on. Acting has always come naturally to me and have been on numerous Latin American main stream shows. I’ve been offered numerous athletic scholarships, but not certain law schools due to status quo or subjective analysis and reasoning.