Response to World War 2 Channel's "The Stahlhelm" Video: Lots of Stuff Incorrect.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- Link to original video: • The Stahlhelm
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As pointed out by Steven Recknagel regarding the sizing charts they presented being incorrect as well, here are the correlating liner sizes for each respective design and size:
M16/17/18:
Size 60: Liner size 54cm
Size 62: Liner size 56cm
Size 64: Liner size 58cm
Size 66: Liner size 60cm
Size 68: Liner size 62cm
M35/40/42:
Size 60: Liner sizes 52-53cm, weight 810 - 930 grams
Size 62: Liner sizes 54-55cm, weight 880 - 1000 grams
Size 64: Liner sizes 56-57cm, weight 920 - 1070 grams
Size 66: Liner sizes 58-59cm, weight 1000 - 1125 grams
Size 68: Liner sizes 60-61cm, weight 1025 - 1170 grams
Size 70: Liner sizes 62-63cm, weight 1060 - 1230 grams
All of these weights are measured without the liner and chinstrap.
Thanks for putting the weights in, very nice to see that as well
Beleive it or not, the WW2 ones did have a 72 shell. Not sure if you know of the late Eric Grigsby from Grigsby Militaria (helmet dealer/reenactor), but his personal helmet was a real 72. It remains the on;y example i have ever heard of. They must have been made only on request. Even the size 70 shells are almost non existant.
Mike, for guns they have Othais and Mae at the C&Rsenal channel, who know waay more about military small arms than anyone should. If they are going to do things like helmets, they clearly need to get a better expert.
Agreed.
Maybe you 🤷🏼♂️ to state the obvious
And they have the Chieftain for armor
I have to say, your vast knowledge is very impressive. It’s great to listen to guys like you who have taken the time to fact-check. Great video and very informative!
Much appreciated! I'm always learning as well, this is just what I've gathered so far.
@@MikeB128 yeah there is definitely no shortage of knowledge to consume. That’s what makes the Milsurp hobby so addictive!
@@jaydendrennan9567 I agree.
Although I love the channel and I’m learning so much from it I actually think they should stay away from the hardware side of it and just refer to other channels like C&Rsenal or Forgotten Weapons (as an example) I’m sure there are channels dedicated to uniforms etc. I think they’re covering old ground and of course if they get details wrong they’re just going to suffer the wrath of enthusiasts.
I agree.
They're really bad with working with other channels, from what I heard they promised a lot of collaborations, kept no contact with the other channels, would give them barely any notice for when the video should be out, and didn't give them any help with the research, I think InrangeTV did a video specifically about why he will not collaborate with them. Their channel isn't supposed to be the end all be all anyways, but more of a general knowledge kind of thing and to prod you to do your own research if you want to know more.
It's actually a totally different production company than "the great war" channel/series... they expected more big time financial backers instead of shoestring Patreon crowd founding... so lots of good intentions, ideas, and promises were turned into dust. Honestly I'm surprised the WW2 series is doing as well as it is 😐
@@berryreading4809 I actually really enjoyed the original Great War series that Indie presented and while Jessie is doing a great job I personally think the episodes are too long and too long between episodes. I just lost touch with it. WW2 is just too busy. I’m enjoying Spartacus’s series tho.
Their first world war stuff was interesting because I know very little about the great war but, even with my little knowledge I remember them doing "deep dive" videos into equipment, weapons, etc. and realizing they were wrong about stuff. Just like you said their macro stuff is great but when they try to get into the micro you can tell that their researchers are not very exhaustive in fact checking and regurgitate alot of reenactor and fudd-isms.
Exactly what I've noticed.
I also watched that video as well, and I'm very glad to now watch your video that corrects some of the errors. Great job!
They had a video this year about small arms that was so botched it got taken down and they apologized. I love WW2 Channel and have massive respect for the entire team. But I think they suffer from, as you state, not being as good with micro subjects. What they need is a very specialized guest or researcher for those specific topics. The Franco-Prussian War channel has delegated very specific video topics to capandball channel, which specializes in such weapons, and other museum professionals, to great effect. I hope WW2 Channel takes the criticism in stride to tweak their process and get better, rather than abandon the micro subjects after a couple of swing-and-misses.
Glad you pointed out the difference between fragmentation and shrapnel. Not many even in the active duty military world know that.
Interesting point about shrapnel vs. shell fragments. Never knew the difference!
The Great War is actually a entirely different company. Indy left the channel when they finished WW1 to start a new channel
Good to know. It still sucks, and he still is just the guy reading the teleprompter. My guess is that they don't actually care much about history, but are just trying to make money off it.
I think the production team on ww2 is at least partly German so the mistake with shrapnel and shell fragments probably comes from that. In German shrapnel can also mean shell fragments as far as I know
Yeah well, like I said in the video, it really doesn't take much time/effort to research these helpful details.
They screwed the pooch on a small arms video recently as well; if I recall correctly it was researched and written by a war historian who wasn't a small arms expert. I think they took that one down, maybe they'll follow suit with this.
That's really too bad.
Preach on Brother! Tell like it is, tell it straight.
When it comes the overall of subject of both world wars, both channels did okay jobs describing the events to the viewer. It’s when they talk about the smaller details (rifles, equipment, etc) that the cracks start to get more noticed. Which is why your channel is great since you dive into the smaller details about all sort of different subjects and conflicts. Keep up the good work Mike👍.
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your channel and your critique. Keep up the great work. I look forward to supporting you when I'm able to!
Very informative video! Thank you! 🙇🏼♀️
Bundeswehr-Smock with Wehrmacht-Stahlhelm, Lol🤣
Best regards from Germany.
I sort of might have done that on purpose lol.
Hey man I really appreciate this clarification video, I'm just getting into WWII equipment history and their video gave me a lot of misinformation, this is a good follow up :)
Glad to help out with your research.
Thanks for correcting that. I was arguing German helmets and he cited incorrect information from their site. Can’t Waite to send him your video.
I tend to give homey a pass on misrepresenting mms and cms. Us guys grow up telling girls that a bic lighter is 6 inches long. 😂
Wait, they're not 6 inches long?
@@MikeB128 🤷♂️😂
Hey, don't worry about my bic
What's a inch?
I wish I had half of your knowledge about old guns and helmets I collect them I learn as I go
I learn as I go too. It doesn't happen overnight. It's been almost 25 years of research for me. You'll get there.
Russian I haven't got a chance to look at their new gear body armor helmets seen new battle rifles all and all it's a sexy ak with features as the ar platform and (545 its comprising at that point) I personally would make7.62X50 7.62×45 hot heavy would be an upgrade to the ammo
The more you learn the more aware you are about what you don't know. Your mindset means you're more than determined to learn plenty.
Great work Mike, very professional. Just pointing out the facts and the issues associated with the missinformation.
Thanks mike this was very needed.
This kind of subject they seem to be open about taking Criticism.
I’d attempted in the past to give criticism and add primary sources and events and I was banned from their channel lol
Same observation though, good on the macro level
The first big thing I noticed i this video was their sizing charts
Well and the paint area, while I didn’t know about the linseed element!
I didn't see anything wrong with the sizing charts, did I miss something?
@@MikeB128 I could be mistaken, but from my own helmet examples personally I wear a 59 liner. Which all German Helmets I’ve worn and most Charts show a 59=66 shell
But on their video I believe they have the 59 under a 68 shell
I could be wrong too but from the few examples i have I thought that was the case
Oh shit, I totally missed that. Their sizes are wayyyyy off.
@@MikeB128 glad I could help Mike! Maybe part two? ;) lol
Nah I just made a pinned comment.
I watched it yesterday, now I’m done seeing this. They should have reached out to someone, they do it with Chieftain. If only there was a channel that was into this particular subject.
Thanks for pointing this out
For what is worth, I got issued a size L ACH with no cover but needed a size XL for my cartoon size dome... private purchased an XL shell and cover online. If you're in the military and don't have supply or issue problems you're probably some ODA cat with your own supply NCO for 12 pax.
Hey Mike. It might be some conciliation to you that the youtube algorithm brought me to this video without me having any prior exposure to your content. Even though your channel might be on the smaller side, there's still hope that those interested in history will be able to find high quality factual content like what you offer here. Appreciate the effort you put in to teach us all!
Thank you much!
There's a pretty good 1980's Swiss army video that illustrated air burst/shrapnel ordinance.
Yeah I hear you Mike. Saw the video yup you nail it!
I am a huge fan of the ww2 channel and as much as I wanna see hardware type videos, I do agree trying to cover hardware of ww2 is extremely difficult if not impossible
And their replies to criticism tell me all I need to know about their actual intention.
@@MikeB128 I never really see them respond to anything besides the weapons video they tried doing in the past
16:45 i don't think thats a small little detail. the double decal and shiny finish, uncamouflaged look is ingrained in a lot of peoples minds despite the decals being phased out depending on the unit from 1940 to the end of the war.
Can you do a review on original m65 jackets and there extra components like the fur hood and the liner. Also what are the extra buttons and button holes and snaps on the jacket for
No, because you post the same comment on every video and it's annoying.
Well isn’t the m65 Vietnam war era you did a whole playlist on Vietnam war equipment so I thought you might do that video sorry if it got annoying I just wanted my comment to be seen and that you hopefully will make a video on the m65 because I like your videos and the information they give also I own an m65 I bought it at a surplus store and I have been wondering what the extra parts for it are and how to set them up on the m-65 and I can’t find any good videos
DAYUUUUUM!!! Big Mike goin in on those fools!
The 10cm is probably the thickness of the machine gunner armor plate that can be mojnted.
Lol if you can't get it right, who can? 10cm? Christ, are you driving a King Tiger?
As soon as the video started and I saw the Spanish helmet sitting on the desk I exited out. They put out great content for the most part though.
Yeah I knew it was going to be a dumpster-fire at that point as well. If it was some random dude like me sitting in his mom's basement making videos, it's one thing, but when your budget is that extensive, you can afford a $3-400 helmet as an example to use for more than one video..
Well done mike
are there any good reference books for this sort’ve thing
What Insignia did the police units use on their helmets? I saw the pianist and they look different than the SS
A quick google search will answer that.
@@MikeB128 I love your style of answering questions reminds me off my English teacher
I just realized what their mistake was with the M17. They were describing an Austrian M17 not a german one. Austrian m17 had an improved chin strap mount over the German M16.
Yeah probably, but they were too dense to mention it. Again, it was just a really lazy episode, and their reactions have been extremely childish and bitchy. Instead of maybe having a conversation with me, they just go on the defensive and double-down on their blatant fuck-ups. Says a lot about how miserable they would be to be around in real life. Oh well.
Welp, the WWI channel, Reel Time History, has nothing to do with the WW2 channel, Thime Ghost. Completely different groups.
I feel there’s a chance salty fanboys are going to try attacking this video even when they know you’re right
If they're a fanboy of a channel that apparently has been consistently putting out inaccurate fuddlore/boomer myths, their opinion isn't worth a tuppenny fuck.
Damn straight
fun fact, the french didn't like using the cloth cover because in injury if it got into the wound it could possibly increase chance of infecting it mix with mud or making it worse, that is why the french stop using shortly after use in ww1
They could have bought decent m16-18 all the way to a 42 repo helmets to go over hell even a east german helmet that was pretty much already drawn up during the war which they slipped in there even buying real examples to show off for the video then selling afterwards would have been better then stock photos I also like the cheap polyester flags in the back
Literally no reproduction of a German helmet is good. They can afford to buy one real one as an example..
Hey Mike B, do you, by chance, have a Kukri Knife at home?
Would love a WW1 camo helmets vid
Oh dear , I knew this would happen when Indy did the Stahlhelm episode. In fairness it’s a 10-15 minute summary of the use of a single piece of headwear . There are heaps of episodes on TH-cam to look at the history of this topic. They’re trying to cover everything WW2 in 15min episode. Give me a break
I get that it's a summary, but they got a bunch of really basic facts wrong. I'm not going to let it go un-checked just because "They're trying to cover everything WW2 in a 15 min episode". They are considered authorities on these topics, therefore they should use their budget to do proper research. Give me a break John..
15-20 minutes is almost a disortation. An actual scholar can read off a 15 to 20 page research paper in that time. No excuse for sloppy research, especially with the kind of money they make.
*Dissertation
It's only one video , I believe if you want something more accurate you go to the books, nobody is perfect.
It's unfortunate, however if I had to surmise who the target demographic of their channel is, I'd put money on it bending heavily towards high schoolers whose interests are mostly borne out of video games. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's an easy demographic for them to "capture," and so long as the content plays well for them-- accuracy be damned-- then that's clearly what matters most to them. It especially explains things like the 'each helmet means a dead German' line that plays towards childish notions of war (Standard materiel loss and attrition? What's that?).
I agree, I’ve watched the series on and off and I agree with Mike on this. I definitely got the general feeling that the video was a lot more generalized overview like the kind of stuff you’d find in your Highschool history class. Again nothing wrong with that approach per say but a subject like military gear concepts is a lot more in depth and needs an hour video and books and diagrams to wrap ones head around that a 10-20 minute video could do justice.
Hahaha watched few seconds of that video, introduction to his Video lost me; could tell first hand there was gonna be problems.
Yeah, and their replies to me were about as immature and condescending as one could possibly be. Typical of the History PhD types. Very miserable people to be around.
As soon as I saw that helmet on his desk, I kind of checked out as far as seriousness goes. I assume they just looked up “German helmet” on eBay and just bought the first listing that came up.
Good video
I'm a photo colorist for the TimeGhost and WW2 Channels and I must say even I have become rather frustrated at their coverage of WW2. Their rather dishonest "neutral" coverage, the misinterpretations and blatant falsehoods of even some basic stuff (especially regarding social issues and equipment), emotional appeals (understandable considering the war they're covering, but it does get rather manipulative at times, especially in their video on U.S. Army racism) and the clickbaity titles were so annoying and counterproductive to their mission of bringing forth a "history revolution on the internet". It got so bad that I criticized their video on U.S. Army racial prejudice during the war (the video was so wrong and lacking in proper detail that you'd think a freshman wrote it from watching a single blatantly inaccurate movie or reading a single Marxist source for the umpteenth time) in two giant posts in their own forum. If they wanted a "history revolution," they're not going to get it by repeating horsecrap from college that I have already called out 2 decades ago when I was a student (another e.g., their feminism video). You know something's off when the forum has more productive and engaging posts. I do wish TG got its head straight and pull a Mark Felton or TIK (both have flaws too, but I found them more productive).
That's too bad but understandable man. If people make 1-2 errors in a video, I might comment and say why it's not factual, but this was just too much. It seems to me that they're just all about the almighty dollar now and not actually about starting a "history revolution"... I guess I've been starting one for years debunking stupid hyperbolic shit like the Stahlhelm video, but hey, they have over a half million subs... Thanks for commenting man.
@@MikeB128 You're welcome, Mike. As a historian, it's rather sad seeing TG degrade itself like this. Actually one other member of the forum (who contributed research to their Bulgaria episodes in TGW) criticized TG for being "pop history focused", iirc. Another criticized their video on Yugoslavia (my sister joked that they might as well have stated the video was sponsored by Tito's ghost)
@@MikeB128 And also, don't let a half million subs get you down. Teaching the truth despite low subs is far more healthy than a blatant lie with a half million subs.
It doesn't get me down, it irritates me that some people with that many subs can put out very sub-par "info" and many people will take it as gospel.
@@MikeB128 It irritates me too. :/
Can you explain how you can tell the ss helmet had fake ss decals?
That's an entire video on its own. Way too long to type, but you can google it if you want to learn more.
i hate doing this but, i think im first
You are indeed.
This isn’t the first time this happened they did a videos on the infantry weapons used on the pacific front they got a lot wrong but they did acknowledge their mistakes on that video
Units probably didn’t authorize stuff for the same reason they don’t authorize stuff now.
Mike can you please reupload the portuguese helmet videos?
Did they disappear?
@@MikeB128 TH-cam took them down long ago
What the hell, why? I'll get them made eventually.
@@MikeB128 thank you
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Hey Mike how about the Chileans army Helmets?
What about them? They are just used for parade purposes today.
Yeah they definitely are not that credible it seems. I mean when they reviewed the battlefield 1 trailers on the great war channel they called a mosin nagant a general liu rifle. Just simple stuff like that is so embarrassing and they keep making the same mistakes it looks like.
The weapon and tank videos on WW2 channel have flaws too.
I saw that video too and stopped watching after a few minutes - it's obviously just a channel for teenagers and wannabes about 'cool war stuff' pretending they're are serious 'history' channel. Not to be taken seriously. The minutia of militaria isn't a topic of academic historians.
There you go. I agree 100%.
This reminds me of that one time they made a video called "Infantry weapons at Guadalcanal"
and it just gets sooo much wrong from stuff like the dumb myth of Japanese soldiers throwing their dust covers away to stuff like the Type-89 Mortar being fired by US soldiers from the Knee to the classic "the M1 ping got soldiers killed".
Also another case of no one thinking of the specs they're saying is when Indy says the Type 96 machine gun fires at 50 rounds per minute.
Thankfully they made the video private but have yet to redo/correct it as far as I know.
The Fire Brigade was part of the police, so they were used a lot by the police.
Sure, while they were performing fire-fighting duties....
@@MikeB128 and during parade.
Who else is waiting on World War 2's response?
They most likely won't.
They might, they took down the small arms video where they repeated the bullshit 'Garand ping got people killed' myth.
What differentiates the World War Two channel from The Great War channel is in my opinion not only do they bite off way more than they can chew, but they seem to prideful to get help from other creators. The Great War has and continues to get information from other creators and historians while World War Two seems to want to do everything themselves. They also rushed the launch of the channel. The Great War was extremely popular from 2014 to 2018 and they started World War Two immediately after the week by week episodes ended on The Great War. I know they are different companies, but one was obviously used to boost the other. That isn’t necessarily bad, but I feel they could have benefited from a years break. Especially since the timelines would have matched up better. The fact that The Great War was 100 years from the war, but World War Two’s content is 79 kind of irks me, but I get it isn’t a huge deal.
Well after the way I was treated in the comments on the stahlhelm video, I no longer take them seriously as a resource at all. Typical of the History PhD types to double-down when you're wrong and start the condescending tone coupled with insults. Very unbecoming of a "professional", and very immature.
@@MikeB128 When their forum is more productive than their actual videos (a forum which their own creators haven't bothered to check up in a while), something's wrong.
Yeah def gonna listen to you instead of an actual german lol
Most Germans are morons when it comes to history. Obviously you are too. Point out what I was incorrect about and I'll take your immature ass seriously.
They also made a quite shit video about the Riff war, even using a British politician that even them admitted was a hispanophobe as source to criticzise Spain's performance
That's lovely.
They did a pretty incorrect video about vikings too
Weird.
stayfit_110 When did they talk about vikings? I mean it is completely off their scope.
@@karlwilhelmmeinert7592 TimeGhost shorts. They talked about it in one of their TimeGhost shorts specials, iirc. BTW, I'm a colorist in that channel, but even I've become frustrated with how the channel covers certain subject matter. In their own forum, I've criticized their video on race relations in the U.S. Army, the video being so crass that quoting a Marxist was the least problematic part of the video. One other member of TG was also disillusioned at their "pop history outlook" and another criticized their Yugoslavia video.