Dev here, thanks for the video! ...and also for showing me that adding the red line would be a good idea. I was worried that it might get confusing when the path crosses itself multiple times, but according to the feedback from the comments, I'll have to somehow make it work.
Just a potential idea, but maybe the line can change color as it goes along its path? That would help you differentiate between the path thats later on and earlier on. So like, it shifts from Yellow to Orange to Red or something as it progresses so you can see your progress as you move along it. Or maybe just show the paths adjacent to each other. So if you double back, the lines dont overlap, but instead are next to each other. Seems like a tricky problem to solve without it potentially getting confusing, but even at the worst case, just a line that even can overlap itself is still better than nothing.
I think you could either make the line change gradually like a gradient rainbow, so you can see which section is the bluest etc, Or add like an animating line or light that basically light up in order to the exit, like in airplanes lmao Or maybe just arrows or accepting the confusing crossover, and hoping the step by step playback you have works well enough lol Anyways, the line would be SUPER helpful, but the one thing that was iffy about it in the video is that it made height changes a bit unclear, but yknow thats because its in video editing
Great work stumping Tyler a little, pretty rare feat! I do think the line would be great, even if the earlier part fades out during a longer walk that doubles back on itself or something.
Use the Scratch method Do{ Trail (show) } While [test=1] And you just paint the line and make it show while on test, since you're already making the trail that the asset most follow and creating the puzzle, it would be another pre-created part of the game, also, you could put another conditional to add the possiblity of grading difficulty, so the line, a quality of life upgrade that makes the game easier, only shows on normal or lower difficulty: If [difficulty>2] { Do{ Trail (show) } While [test=1] }
Best example at 15:48. With both line AND your little example guy, it work fine. After, I did not saw after if you have to go back 10 times XD but up to 4 or 5 could be fine. You can even put little number on line like on subway map.
literally at memory training I was like "why is it so confusing? surely you can just follow the red line" before realizing that was for us viewers! the editing continues to be so seamless that I just assume it's part of the game
@@keesvdb If he isn't getting paid I propose he starts getting payed starting with a small ammount per hour, then increasing ammount the more helpful things he puts in for the viewers and the more they request he gets a raise
This is actually a really interesting concept as with the veggie game you had to stop the shortest solution but with this you HAVE TO have the right solution
Yeah that veggie game was like "yeah slow them down, but they have to beat it, but not too fast, but they automatically change strategies on the fly without you being able to easily predict without trial and error"
14:22 Depth-first search is actually an algorithm in graph theory used by computers to traverse graph data structures! One simple application for example is to solve mazes. Basically, the algorithm first finds a path by visiting some vertices in a certain order until it is no longer possible to visit adjacent vertices, and then backtracks to previously visited vertices to see if there are any adjacent vertices that weren't visited yet. This way the algorithm ensures all the vertices are visited! You can see it in this puzzle, where the little guy first visited the north tile, then backtracked to the center, then visited the west tile and backtracked, etc. until all the squares were visited. Thank you for taking your time to read this, I am a big fan of graph theory 😊
@@sapphirepurple7138 yes, however for finding a hamiltonian path there has not been found an algorithm and it is believed one does not exist. It is classified as an NP-complete problem, which basically means complete enumeration is the most efficient method for finding a hamiltonian path / circuit!
@@snackybuns There *is* an algorithm (the brute force/complete enumeration one), it's just very inefficient, so much so that it's not really usable in practice. It's clear you know this, since you mentioned the existing algorithm, and just said the wrong thing by mistake, but I still wanted to clarify it for others.
The 11:00 didn't need the wall before the button, having up walls completely block the path after the button is enough to make doubling back just a worthless move for the player, and then you just need down walls to block the exit as you were doing from the start.
love the editing, love the puzzles, love watching anytime, I'm drunk or sober. i can follow along or see the solution before you do respectively, or i can be amazed by your intelligence. keep up the fun videos dude. always giving me something to look forward too either at work or when i get home.
Yeah, like ngl I thought one was an odd number, so it has to press green at end of bottom, then blue button that must press to cross midway, so he just doubles back later, and it prioritizes same length paths that follow solution
I dont like talking about other channels on the comment section of another channel but watching Tyler finding a hard puzzle and calling it evil but having fun with it reminded me of Simon from Cracking the Criptic and his sudokus
Also Simon struggles with trials and errors and are used to doing everything right through the entire puzzle. This habit would obliterate him in the game like this.
@@mrmosaic7996 honestly I think Simon would think on his head the whole puzzle solution while explaining it to us step by step instead of trial and error... Then discover that the A.I can backtrack on the same button and go blue screen irl hahaha
I like this game so much more than Veggie Quest... something about that game never clicked with me but this is so much more satisfying. Also props to editors on red lines.
What matters is that the solution shown is valid and its length is minimal (there are no shorter solutions), but there's no requirements that the solution is unique
Small tip for anyone trying the final puzzle shown here: The place where Aliensrock says there must be a button, does not in fact, have to have a button
14:00 lol that's a funny easter egg with the depth first search, we had to implement one of those in a programming class I took. I have the final for that class tomorrow so we'll see how it goes.
This game allows me (and probably Tyler as well) to experience developers' POV on how to prevent cheesing and the frustrations of doing so, apart from brainstorming how to design a puzzle based on intended solutions. It seems to not be easy! (Funny how designing a puzzle is a puzzle in itself.)
@@paulelderson934 It seems as though the game checks the requirements in order: 1. the intended solution is valid, then 2. there are no shorter solutions. However it doesn't show it visually very clearly. So if the intended solution is invalid, it doesn't bother running the pathfinder at all, and instead shows you how much of the intended solution it can use.
Wait, that red line wasn't a part of the game. What the fuck? Holy shit, the editors got me. They got us! They bamboozled us! But in a loving and nice way
I think part of why the last puzzle was so confusing is it seems like the game shows youbany problems with the intended route before showing shortcuts, so it looked like the first part avoided shortcuts but it was really just showing rhe intended route.
I just started playing the game because I really enjoyed the video and wanted to figure that last level out for myself. I won't give any solutions, but it was a really fun level. Very satisfying dopamine rush when I figured it out. Thanks for introducing me to another fun puzzle game.
I notice that the requirements are that 1. The intended solution works, and 2. That there are no shorter solutions. I feel like there's going to be some trick involving alternate solutions coming...
He already got confused at one point trying to avoid an alternate path that was the same length as the intended one, which isn't required by the rules, which only mention shorter ones. I'm not certain he realized that though, so he might get temporarily stumped again in the next video for the same reason.
That was really fun to watch! For future uploads of this game, can the webcam always be in the bittom right corner? Because if not, the game spoilers the outcome of the current run ("The intended solution works" and "There is no shorter solution"), meaning you know if it'll work out or not before the robot actually runs through it all.
As far as I can tell, it seems as though the game checks the requirements in order: 1. the intended solution is valid, then 2. there are no shorter solutions. However it doesn't show it visually very clearly. So if the intended solution is invalid, it doesn't bother running the pathfinder at all, and instead shows you how much of the intended solution it can use.
Near the end, didn't he almost have the solution? Just instead of the one green button in the corner, leave the corner empty, and place three green buttons in front of it? Or maybe a blue pip in the corner, so that he could step back to toggle the green button one more time?
I didn’t even realise the red line wasn’t part of the game. Amazing job editors. That was so natural and helpful it should have been part of the game.
Editors casually improving the game.
The game creator should actually add this as an option.
Yea it’s crazy what a little magic adds
WAIT THEY WERENT?
@@trollar8810 LOL
Wow, didn’t realize until i saw your comment. That’s actually amazing
Dev here, thanks for the video! ...and also for showing me that adding the red line would be a good idea. I was worried that it might get confusing when the path crosses itself multiple times, but according to the feedback from the comments, I'll have to somehow make it work.
Just a potential idea, but maybe the line can change color as it goes along its path? That would help you differentiate between the path thats later on and earlier on. So like, it shifts from Yellow to Orange to Red or something as it progresses so you can see your progress as you move along it.
Or maybe just show the paths adjacent to each other. So if you double back, the lines dont overlap, but instead are next to each other.
Seems like a tricky problem to solve without it potentially getting confusing, but even at the worst case, just a line that even can overlap itself is still better than nothing.
I think you could either make the line change gradually like a gradient rainbow, so you can see which section is the bluest etc,
Or add like an animating line or light that basically light up in order to the exit, like in airplanes lmao
Or maybe just arrows or accepting the confusing crossover, and hoping the step by step playback you have works well enough lol
Anyways, the line would be SUPER helpful, but the one thing that was iffy about it in the video is that it made height changes a bit unclear, but yknow thats because its in video editing
Great work stumping Tyler a little, pretty rare feat! I do think the line would be great, even if the earlier part fades out during a longer walk that doubles back on itself or something.
Use the Scratch method
Do{
Trail (show)
}
While [test=1]
And you just paint the line and make it show while on test, since you're already making the trail that the asset most follow and creating the puzzle, it would be another pre-created part of the game, also, you could put another conditional to add the possiblity of grading difficulty, so the line, a quality of life upgrade that makes the game easier, only shows on normal or lower difficulty:
If [difficulty>2] {
Do{
Trail (show)
}
While [test=1]
}
Best example at 15:48. With both line AND your little example guy, it work fine. After, I did not saw after if you have to go back 10 times XD but up to 4 or 5 could be fine. You can even put little number on line like on subway map.
Fixes one of the biggest problems from the vegetable reverse puzzle: It actually tells you why your puzzle is unsolvable.
tbh for veggie puzzle it can just tell you to try it yourself
also has a line
@@reizinhodojogo3956 That was the editor adding it in.
@@omegahaxors9-11 should get a rise
literally at memory training I was like "why is it so confusing? surely you can just follow the red line" before realizing that was for us viewers! the editing continues to be so seamless that I just assume it's part of the game
i tried the game and was like "wait where's the line"
Knowing there's no line makes me not want to play the game but also congrats to the editor for sure！
the dev wanted to add it (after seeing the video)@@KuyashiiPlays
Tyler should actually give the editor a 2× raise, that red line was so helpful
2x0 is still 0
@@keesvdbexactly that’s the point
@@keesvdb If he isn't getting paid I propose he starts getting payed starting with a small ammount per hour, then increasing ammount the more helpful things he puts in for the viewers and the more they request he gets a raise
@@djangel3108 his editors get paid lol
@@keesvdbIt's like a Davy Jones situation, if you set one of his editors free you have to take their place.
Once again the editors improve the viewing experience by a factor of 10.
I thought the red lines were in the game itself untill I realized the mouse went under the line the editers are amazing
Editors made this video actually digestible to the viewers with those lines. Awesome video from everyone involved!
but where are the veggies??
Comments like these give me life lmao
sorry, i got a little hungry
Their quest is over.
where's alex?
Retired from puzzle solving, and because an AI took their job
This is actually a really interesting concept as with the veggie game you had to stop the shortest solution but with this you HAVE TO have the right solution
Yeah that veggie game was like "yeah slow them down, but they have to beat it, but not too fast, but they automatically change strategies on the fly without you being able to easily predict without trial and error"
@@BaconNuke Veggie game was 'Must be beatable in the smallest amount of moves' this was 'Must be beatable in x amount of moves'
@@TheGameChangerLord Must be beatable with a given set of moves, and there must be no set of shorter length that solves the puzzle.
14:22 Depth-first search is actually an algorithm in graph theory used by computers to traverse graph data structures! One simple application for example is to solve mazes. Basically, the algorithm first finds a path by visiting some vertices in a certain order until it is no longer possible to visit adjacent vertices, and then backtracks to previously visited vertices to see if there are any adjacent vertices that weren't visited yet. This way the algorithm ensures all the vertices are visited!
You can see it in this puzzle, where the little guy first visited the north tile, then backtracked to the center, then visited the west tile and backtracked, etc. until all the squares were visited. Thank you for taking your time to read this, I am a big fan of graph theory 😊
I'm surprised he didn't mention it since he was a computer science major :P
nice explanation though, i wasn't sure what it meant exactly
5:05 In a similar vein, a "Hamiltonian Path" is where one goes through every node (every maze cell in this case) exactly once.
@@sapphirepurple7138 yes, however for finding a hamiltonian path there has not been found an algorithm and it is believed one does not exist. It is classified as an NP-complete problem, which basically means complete enumeration is the most efficient method for finding a hamiltonian path / circuit!
@@snackybuns There *is* an algorithm (the brute force/complete enumeration one), it's just very inefficient, so much so that it's not really usable in practice. It's clear you know this, since you mentioned the existing algorithm, and just said the wrong thing by mistake, but I still wanted to clarify it for others.
@@killerbee.13 good point, my comment was a bit misleading.
The editing in to show your thinking in real time actually makes a huge difference when trying to understand what you are going for
Loving the reverse puzzles where you think backwards, this is gonna be an awesome series continued into '24
Welp, wasn’t a series. :/
The 11:00 didn't need the wall before the button, having up walls completely block the path after the button is enough to make doubling back just a worthless move for the player, and then you just need down walls to block the exit as you were doing from the start.
love the editing, love the puzzles, love watching anytime, I'm drunk or sober. i can follow along or see the solution before you do respectively, or i can be amazed by your intelligence. keep up the fun videos dude. always giving me something to look forward too either at work or when i get home.
This has to have some of the best editing I've ever seen. Great job Ben and Dan!
18:44 you already have the solution, just put the top left Green Button one to the right
2x0 is still 0 so idk how useful the yellow box agreement is
He pays his editors though
Tyler was so close to solving the last puzzle then he just started trying new ideas😂😂😂
Yeah, like ngl I thought one was an odd number, so it has to press green at end of bottom, then blue button that must press to cross midway, so he just doubles back later, and it prioritizes same length paths that follow solution
Tyler went in the yellow box, the editors deserve the raise promised!
I dont like talking about other channels on the comment section of another channel but watching Tyler finding a hard puzzle and calling it evil but having fun with it reminded me of Simon from Cracking the Criptic and his sudokus
Also Simon struggles with trials and errors and are used to doing everything right through the entire puzzle. This habit would obliterate him in the game like this.
@@mrmosaic7996 honestly I think Simon would think on his head the whole puzzle solution while explaining it to us step by step instead of trial and error...
Then discover that the A.I can backtrack on the same button and go blue screen irl hahaha
Congrats to the editors on their raise.
Veggiequest 2: attack of the cylinders
the only time "view the solution" doesnt show you the "solution"
It took me until seeing memory training to realise the red line was just an edit
really well done editors, we know who is really carrying the channel
This seems like a great way to practice map development for deving puzzles in games.
It help you try to force a solution.
When it comes to buttons and doors, even/odd puzzles are so satisfying to watch.
What an Interesting puzzle game! Also Talos Principle was great.
This definitely seems a lot more fun than the vegetable game which just became trial and error after a while
one of the top 10 best puzzle channels on youtube.
probably top 1 even.
As if TylerRock has a competition
Good on Tyler for placing his cam in that yellow box. The editors deserve it!
The editing is so good when it shows what you mean
I like this game so much more than Veggie Quest... something about that game never clicked with me but this is so much more satisfying. Also props to editors on red lines.
one of the more interesting takes on reverse puzzles I've seen. definitely gonna need a follow up to this one
9:46 it doesn’t matter if he can double back. it’s the same number of moves if he doesn’t so that counts
Wait the only thing that matters is move amounts? Not specific tile visits?
What matters is that the solution shown is valid and its length is minimal (there are no shorter solutions), but there's no requirements that the solution is unique
Its rare to see a puzzle that you cant beat. I do enjoy the game and would love to see more
Shoutout to the editors for being the best damn editors on the entire platform, they are literally perfect
Editors not only making it funnier, but also better.
It took me almost 7 minutes to realize the red line wasn't part of the game, the editors for this channel are incredible
i love playing with tyler to see which one of us finds the solution first
Small tip for anyone trying the final puzzle shown here: The place where Aliensrock says there must be a button, does not in fact, have to have a button
6:18 oooooooooooook. What in the giga rubik's cube is this spaghettio of a path!? 😂😂😂😂😂
2:47 that isn't impossible. ◀️🔼▶️🔼
i love supporting small creators
YOU ARE SO SMART, SLOVING THESE PUZZLE REALLY QUICKLY
This is awesome! No clue how you're solving them so easily though, wow.
14:00 lol that's a funny easter egg with the depth first search, we had to implement one of those in a programming class I took. I have the final for that class tomorrow so we'll see how it goes.
1:17
"its gotta go around, you edge...."
-aliensrock, 2023
I'd love to see more of this! I fully didn't realize at first that the red line was edited in 🤯
The red line and the see through walls were amazing. Go Editors. and Tyler ur pretty good too ig
Did tyler keep his agreement to give the editor 2x raise? I must know now.
I love the idea of reverse puzzle solving, but Veggie Quest failed to scratch that itch, and now I understand why.
This game allows me (and probably Tyler as well) to experience developers' POV on how to prevent cheesing and the frustrations of doing so, apart from brainstorming how to design a puzzle based on intended solutions. It seems to not be easy! (Funny how designing a puzzle is a puzzle in itself.)
why is it not just going to the flag at 17:56???? am I going insane?
Yeah that seem weird
@@paulelderson934 It seems as though the game checks the requirements in order: 1. the intended solution is valid, then 2. there are no shorter solutions. However it doesn't show it visually very clearly. So if the intended solution is invalid, it doesn't bother running the pathfinder at all, and instead shows you how much of the intended solution it can use.
Wait, that red line wasn't a part of the game. What the fuck? Holy shit, the editors got me. They got us! They bamboozled us! But in a loving and nice way
At 18:38 if you move the top green button one spot to the right so he goes over then back over for 2 presses
I would definitely like to see more of this. More Veggie Quest as well!
the game start with simple explanation and then go hard on the intrincated puzzles, but with no transition in between.
I feel like that last puzzle might involve forcing the double back at some point by placing a button on the upper T-section
Omg i only realised at 7 minutes in that the red line wasn't part of the game when tyler said "at least you can go step wise"😅 great work editors@
Your editing visuals are so good I just think that it's apart of the game you're playing
I think part of why the last puzzle was so confusing is it seems like the game shows youbany problems with the intended route before showing shortcuts, so it looked like the first part avoided shortcuts but it was really just showing rhe intended route.
I just started playing the game because I really enjoyed the video and wanted to figure that last level out for myself. I won't give any solutions, but it was a really fun level. Very satisfying dopamine rush when I figured it out. Thanks for introducing me to another fun puzzle game.
What's it called tho
5:31 if I had to guess, I think it might be because it can’t solve the puzzle even if it did take the shortcut.
This game is really cool!
(and as everyone rightfully pointed out, the editors have done an amazing job!)
18:16 it was so close i think putting 2 green buttons at the bottom completes it
The game is called "Already Solved", which is the first two words of the video description.
its so fun that in this game the game outsmarts you like a player would outsmart a puzzlemaker lmao
You were really close on that last level, you just needed to swap whether the blue and green at the end are down or up
Its actually kinda funny how hard reverse puzzling is
I would need the editors to add that line for me for every level to even have a hope of playing this game.
Wow thats an incredible puzzle game!
Gotta remember through all of this rhat the red path isn't in the game and is instead added in post by the editors
I notice that the requirements are that
1. The intended solution works, and
2. That there are no shorter solutions.
I feel like there's going to be some trick involving alternate solutions coming...
He already got confused at one point trying to avoid an alternate path that was the same length as the intended one, which isn't required by the rules, which only mention shorter ones. I'm not certain he realized that though, so he might get temporarily stumped again in the next video for the same reason.
Only a few puzzles for Tyler to get stumped. This is gonna be a good series
congrats to Tyler's editors for the 2x raise!
Give your editors a raise. This video would be impossible to follow without them.
17:10 most out of context thing on this channel
Congrats on the raise editors!
Great video 👍🔝
That was really fun to watch! For future uploads of this game, can the webcam always be in the bittom right corner? Because if not, the game spoilers the outcome of the current run ("The intended solution works" and "There is no shorter solution"), meaning you know if it'll work out or not before the robot actually runs through it all.
With all the reverse puzzle games Tyler is doing, you think he'll ever make a puzzle game of his own?
We’d love a new Balatro video soon!
If this trend continues, they'll have us designing the entire game.
A timer on screen for each puzzle should be mandatory for your vids imo
The "memory training" level broke my brain.
13:37 vile reaction
14:05 was interesting, so I solved it on paper, got the identical solution
12:46 my idea
Blank blank button blank Blank
Blank blank blank blank blank
Blank blank blank blank blank
Start button blank green⬇️ end
Did he do a part 2, I’ve been checking everyday and can’t see a part 2, I want to know the solution to the last puzzle in this video
18:45 just make the top green button 1 block to the right?
wasnt till the memory training level i realized how much the editor was carrying the vieqability of this game lol
This game is insane. Cant wait to see more.
How did placing one box there in level 2 solve that problem?
So I think the puzzle solver chose worse paths because there was no possible solution, so it’s going to the block closer to the end
As far as I can tell, it seems as though the game checks the requirements in order: 1. the intended solution is valid, then 2. there are no shorter solutions. However it doesn't show it visually very clearly. So if the intended solution is invalid, it doesn't bother running the pathfinder at all, and instead shows you how much of the intended solution it can use.
0:02 it's me :3
this seems great for aspiring puzzle game designers
Near the end, didn't he almost have the solution? Just instead of the one green button in the corner, leave the corner empty, and place three green buttons in front of it? Or maybe a blue pip in the corner, so that he could step back to toggle the green button one more time?
12:59 editors be rolling in dough right now
15:46 His reaction xD