Personal testimony at the end of witnessing is the way set out by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. At the end of the eye witnesses of the resurrection, he includes his story. As Dr Craig said, it's good to hear the evidence first, weakening the delusional accusation ahead of time.
Perhaps the best, fastest method in which a human being is able to obtain spiritual maturity, and develop an understanding of truths with eternal certainty is by experiencing them in a physical sense , simultaneously experiencing the truths emulated, in correlation with what we spiritually experience. Could I empathize for someone else who has been mistreated or develop the capacity to understand it without having experienced that myself? Could inexperience promote the capability, or probability to have become abusive? Take care in that what doesn’t kill you doesn’t make you a monster also, instead of better, and stronger than they are. Overcome your tragedies or they will take you under. My personal gratitude for greatness in mentoring ( Thank you), Dr. William Lane Craig.
At 34:00, Dr. Craig is making one of his many excellent points. Alas, as a Molinist, he is not entitled to it. _ He thinks that, for any person P whom God could create, he knows what P would freely choose in any (choice-permitting) circumstances in which P could possibly find himself. Therefore, if he were thinking of creating person P, who would reject him, but he would prefer not to be rejected, then he could create person P* instead, P* being a person who would accept him. If Molinism were true, a loving God would not create anyone who would, after all is said and done, reject him.
Very false. God creating beings capable of rebellion is a consequence of him wanting to genuinely have a relationship. God is not interested in glorified marionettes he can use to entertain himself.
@@TONyjustRoCks I agree with you! However, the Molinist, in effect, labels the actions of the marionettes 'FREE', and expects us to buy it. We should not. It is Molinism, not I, that says that God knows in advance everything that any person will ever do, and yet says that persons are free.
@@arthurofalbion There are no marionettes on molinism. You're confused and your point is as well. God knew I would choose to comment, rather than refrain. God's knowledge didnt cause me to comment, I did. In fact, knowledge itself doesn't cause anything. This is a common misunderstanding, but you've simply made a category error. Just because God knows something in advance, it does not mean he directly authored/caused it. For example, suppose God creates his own RNG(random number generator). He made this machine to output random numbers. So every time he uses it, a random number will show. Now suppose God lets it run for 6000 years, one number every day. At the end of 6000 years, the machine will put out one last number. Notwithstanding, God knew what number it would be before he even started the machine. But since God already knew the last number, does it mean he was the one who generated the number? Nope, it was the RNG. The RNG was made to generate random numbers on it's own. So just because God knew the final number, it does not follow that he directly made that number manifest. He simply created an autonomous scenario, despite him knowing absolutely everything beforehand.
@@TONyjustRoCks I think that your illustration is helpful. By my calculations, 6000 years from today (i.e., 30 Aug. 8020) is 2191455 days away, taking leap years into account. There are infinitely many possible random number generators* that would, if created and initialised, produce one random number per day for 2191455 days. Now, according to you, God knows, for each of them, what its final output would be. To be consistent, you must also affirm that he knows all its outputs, and the order in which they would be generated. Indeed, if he chose, he could create one that would generate the natural numbers 1, 2, 3, . . ., 2191455, in that order. It would not do this because it was designed to do it, nor because God caused it to do it, since it would be a true RNG. (Certainly, God’s knowing would not have caused it to do it, if anyone might think that.) Now, let us suppose that God actually created and initialised such an RNG, and allowed it to run its course. Could he then regret the sequence produced? (E.g., if it generated an ugly, messy sequence, could he wish that it had brought forth the nice, natural sequence I specified?) Of course not. If he has the kind of knowledge you claim he has, he could pick any sequence he wanted and create a true RNG to produce it, despite the fact that, in that case, he would neither design it to produce the sequence, nor cause it to do so. _ The application to Molinism is fairly straightforward. By that doctrine, for any person P whom God could create, he knows what P would freely choose in any (choice-permitting) circumstances in which P could find himself. Suppose that God created P, and that, in circumstances C, P freely chose X over Y. Since the choice was free, he could have chosen Y instead. Therefore, it was possible for there to be a person in C who chose Y over X. God could have created such a person, and he would have done had he wanted Y to be chosen in C. Y would have been chosen then, despite the fact that God would neither have caused it to be ‘chosen’, nor designed the person ‘choosing’ in such a way that he had to ‘choose’ it. Accordingly, he cannot now regret the choice of X over Y. For example, he cannot regret that a person has freely rejected him in circumstances C, since, had he wanted to be accepted in C, he would have created someone who would have done so. So long as Dr. Craig continues to adhere to Molinism, he is talking nonsense when he says that God wants as many as possible to accept him. If Molinism were true, _everyone_ would accept him, and they would do so freely (uncaused, etc.). _ * Note that a true random number generator would be fundamentally different from the digital ‘random number’ generators with which many are familiar. The numbers they generate are actually pseudo-random, i.e., functionally equivalent to random, but actually not random at all. For example, a simple generator of pseudo-random numbers could be designed to provide its digits by copying them sequentially from the decimal expansion of a specific irrational number. Knowledge of the first n digits of such an expansion does not, in itself, allow one to determine the (n + 1)th digit. In this sense, it is as if the digits are random. Of course, they aren’t _really_ random, since none could possibly be different.
@James Watson Regret doesnt even begin to factor into molinism at all. God never regrets anything he does. If you mean regret as in "sorrow for it happening" then yes. God could have C scenario where P does X instead of Y(what God desires). God knows he will choose X, but can still be displeased due to it being a genuine choice. I dont like bare logical "this or that" scenarios too much because I think it doesnt represent reality fully. For example, there are some scenarios I believe God can accomplish his plan regardless of human choices in certain situations. I'm even open to God calvinistically forcing an action on a person in a situation, I just don't think he needs to. And your idea of just "swapping out" for a person who would do Y is an example of bare thought experiment that doesnt reflect reality much. God didnt swap out Judas for someone else, or just never call him in the first place. God has many other goods in his mind that we dont know fully and thus permits evil actions he is well equipped to never allow to exist. Saying "God can create a person who does Y instead in C" just doesnt apply to reality. Putting a different person(P*) in the "same" C actually makes it a different C. God wanted P to choose Y, not P*. To be honest though, I think most of this talk is fluff because I'm not seeing a real argument. "If [middle knowledge is true], he could pick any sequence he wanted and create a true RNG to produce it." No, God can't. That is logically incoherent; it's just a flat contradiction. God cannot influence or alter a RNG's output by definition or it ceases to be an RNG. God cannot craft it in such a way to control the output if he abides by the rules of what it means to be a RNG. And so I dont see how molinism is "nonsense" if God wants the maximal number of people saved. Try simplifying your objection and type less so I can clearly see your argument. All I've seen are false assertions but no real reason why molinism(and thus Craig) cannot be compatible with maximal people being saved.
The "church:" 1) Has little care or knowledge of true faith/relationship with God through Christ 2) It follows, then, there is a built in bias against or suspicion of apologetics 3) Their cultural belief and attendant shallowness, mitigate concern about their children losing their faith in college, for example.
Not wishing to cast doubt upon the story of how he became a devoted Christian, but it seems to me that he was simply depressed and the panacea for it was faith. Fine, but that says nothing of Christianity being true. In the same way that had he become a Muslim it wouldn't have made Islam true
Craig is a brilliant guy and a nice guy. However, it really bothers me that even when he is in casual conversation, when asked a question, he always repeats the identical answer, with the identical words, with the identical tone of voice. These totally rehearsed responses to the interviewers queries, are quite shocking actually. It's one thing, in a debate, to repeat a rehearsed speech in presenting an idea or rebuttal, but in these friendly, casual discussions - it is very strange. And it is even stranger that so brilliant a thinker as Craig, who I know is a masterful speaker - would resort to this unusual manner of conversing. Sorry Bill - but you really should try to be more spontaneous in these types of settings. Don't worry if you miss something in your story here and there.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. But maybe he just repeats the story the same way because hes asked so often so he just resorts to his easy "script." Either way I do think a spontaneity could be more impactful and less strange.
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Why would you ever need to change your answer if that's the best possible answer as you understand a matter. No one has come back, to my knowledge, with a defeating reply to any of his arguments. In similar fashion, I see no reason why to change the gospel message even though its been out there over 2000 years.
What are you talking about? Is he supposed to start lying when he answers questions? If two people ask him the same question, of course he is going to give the same answer lol. And his testimony is something that he has memorized so that he can give a short presentation to anyone who asks. You are complaining about nothing.
This may be a side point but the mention of people being scared of the possibility of being sent on a mission to Africa exposes America's ignorance of life in Africa and indeed quite a concerted effort to keep life on the continent as lowly as they possibly can. Meanwhile a good number of people struggling with life in the US could have their lives turned around if they were to relocate or at least live for a while on the continent. Americans need education on this front.
I would disagree. As a South African, life is cheap here. Our country is not a warzone but it has one of the highest murder rates in the world. As for living standards, a poor person in America will be considered middle class here but when that is weighed up against the corrupt governments and the culture of corruption in many parts of Africa, the idea of relocating may be perceived as not worth it.
@@Flipver0 Well SA's crime rate is the odd one out of the sub-Saharan average and Apartheid has a lot to do with that. Ghana's crime rate is same with Belgium which is better than both UK and US. Your transposition of standard of living also doesn't work because the wages some of them are making in the US makes them literally live on month to month salaries. In Africa they'd only be middle class if they were to receive the same wages but live in a country where living costs are lower. That isn't indicative of quality of life. So no, your rebuttal doesn't hold
@@tomsea6017 False, I mentioned the living standards of Americans not their salaries because of what you mentioned so your argument doesn't hold. In fact, you committed the straw man fallacy because you provided a response to an argument that you think that I was making as opposed to the actual one. People earn varying salaries but how they live are two separate issues. That is why I say that in the USA, those considered poor have air conditioning in their houses while such in South Africa is actually something that the rich can afford. So it's clear you did not understand my argument. I just used South Africa as an example due to its high murder rate. Also we should not forget how African dictators destroyed their own countries because of misguided policies. Look at Zimbabwe and DRC to name a few. Look at the war that took place in Sudan and the what happened in Libya. They have open slave markets. Africa is a mess right now.
@@Flipver0 Firstly, that was funny, all that about strawman. That was bogus. I just broke down salaries to contextualise people's living standards. To go off on that as a strawman was pathetic. Poor people in America have air conditioners in their homes? You think we're talking about movies? There are people in America who barely have portable water to drink. Excuse me with the nonsense as if I don't know what is happening there. I live in the West. I see some pathetically poor here. Secondly, I see how you conveniently pretend the situations in the various countries you cite just happened. Sorry, you're either being dishonest or totally disconnected from reality. Libyans were having a way better life before they were invaded on flimpsy bogus excuses. DRC had their legimate president murdered with the help of Belgium and USA.Zimbabwe suffered crippling sanctions because they failed to succumb to European pressure. I think I know exactly who you are by your line of arguments. I see right through it. The hypocrisy and pretence, as if these countries just became what they became by accident. Sorry I won't buy it. And I also saw how you conveniently ignored the connection of SA's crime rate with apartheid. I definitely know your type. Africa is better off without you and their delusional rescripted history.
@@tomsea6017 Nice try but you are now resorting to more straw men. Again, if you compare living standards in USA and compare to Africa, the USA has a far better living standards. Yes there is abject poverty in the USA and Africa but if one has to compare those that are considered officially poor in the USA, almost half those homes have air conditioning. That's a massive living standard gap. In South Africa, that will only be afforded by the wealthy and the upper middle class. Your point on Libya can be contested but the point still remains that USA is better off than Libya right now which shows why so many people would not want to go into Africa for ministry. Your point on Zimbabwe is laughable given history itself. The country literally expropriated farms without compensation and gave them over to ZANU-PF cronies and those who knew nothing about running a commercial farm. This led to Zim becoming a net importer when from being the bread basket of Africa. The sanctions did nor help, but Zimbabwe was already doomed when they decided to perform land grabs. Not sure if you know, but they Zim government is deciding to give the land back to white farmers and compensate others because they knew what they did was wrong. I can see you are attempting to drive an anti western narrative which is that Africa's problems are due to the West. That is false. Africa has been independent for over 50 years and yet it is still poor. Clearly it is their leaders. Furthermore no one said it happened by accident. In fact, I said that it was due to the leaders and their misguided policies. That's another straw man. Anyway, your rant on the west 'ruining' Africa does nothing to prove that Americans are ignorant in Africa. In fact, it shows that they have every reason to be fearful because according to you, the west ruined Africa so much. Also excuse me for not knowing what's happening in Africa despite living here my whole life
Islam The Beautiful Religion ( Be Just ) Quran 5:8 '' O you who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the > HATRED OF OTHERS TO YOU < make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. '' Quran 4:58 '' Indeed, God commands you to render trusts to whom they are due and when you judge between people to judge with justice. Excellent is that which God instructs you. Indeed, God is ever Hearing and Seeing.'' ( God's The Rules Of War ) Quran 2:190 '' Fight in the way of God > THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU < but do not transgress. Indeed. God does not like transgressors. '' Quran 2 :193 '' And fight them on until there is no more oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. '' Quran 4:90 ''.........So if they withdraw from you and cease their hostility and offer you peace, in that case Allah has not granted you permission to fight against them.'' Quran 8:61 ''And if they seek peace, then you also seek it, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.'' ( Stand Up For Justice ) Quran 4 :135O '' Ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against > YOURSELVES, < or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.'' ( Who Are The Good Human Beings? ) Quran 177 '' Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in God, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, IN SPITE OF LOVE FOR IT, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives charity; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous. '' ( Freedom To Believe And To Reject ) Quran 2:256 '' Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error '' Quran 10:99 '' And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then would you compel the people in order that they become believers? '' ( Tolerance For Other Religions ) Quran 109: 1- 6 Say,"O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshipers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshiper of what you worship. Nor will you be worshipers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." ( Protection for Idol Worshiper ) Quran 9:6 "And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are people who do not know. " Quran16:125 “Call people to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good teaching, and argue with them in the most courteous way” Quran7:199 “Be tolerant....” ( Friendship With Non Muslims ) Quran 60:8 '' God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly. '' ( Do Christians And Jews and "OTHER" non-Muslims go to Heaven? ) Quran 2:62 '' Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,->ANY { On Judgement Day } ( According to the Quran Christians and Jews worship TRUE God ) (Quran 3:113-114) '' Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book ( Christians and Jews ) are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.'' Note: According to the Quran that Jesus is not God nevertheless Christians still worship one '' TRUE '' God. ( Allah Is The Protector Of Monasteries, Churches, Synagogues And The Mosques ) Quran 22:40 [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is God ." And were it not that God checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of God is much mentioned. And God will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, God is Powerful and Exalted in Might. ( Why Are There So Many Different Religions In The World ? ) Quran 5 48 ''...... If God wanted He could have made all of you a single nation. But He willed otherwise in order to test you in what He has given you;(scriptures) therefore try to excel one another in good deeds. Ultimately you all shall return to God; then He will show you the truth of those matters in which you '' DISPUTE.'' NOTE: Quran 3:85 ''If anyone desires a religion other than Islam ("submission" to God), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good)'' My explanation of above verse Islam mean "submission" to God ( The above verse saying is that God will not accept a religion from the "MUSLIM" and the Non-Muslims but total "submission" to God.) Question: How Can Muslim And the Non-Muslim "submit" to the God? Answer: Be kind to other human beings and Do not lie, Do not steal, Do not cheat, Do not hurt others, Do not be prideful and Do the charity work. ( God Allow Muslims To Marry And Eat Food From the Christian And Jew And Vice Versa ) Quran 5;5 ''This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture ( Christian and Jew) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture ( Christian and Jew) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.'' ( Kindness Toward Atheists / Apostate ) Quran 60:8 '' As for such [of the unbelievers( atheist)] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. '' ( All The Terrorists / Killers Will Enter Hell Fire ) Quran 5:32 "......Whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely......" ( Turned Your Enemies Into Your Best Friends ) Quran 41:34 "The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity (will become) as though he was a bosom friend." ( The Husband and The Wife Are > Protecting Friends < One Of Another ) Quran 9:71 ''And the believers, men and women, are > Protecting Friends < one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey God and His messenger. As for these, God will have mercy on them. Lo! God is Mighty, Wise.'' Quran16:97 “To whoever, male or female, does good deeds and has faith, We shall give a good life and reward them according to the best of their actions. Quran 30:21 “And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquility in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy…” The Prophet Muhammad said, “Heaven lies under the feet of your mother.” ( Human Are One family ) Quran 49:13 " O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)." ( All The Racist People Will Enter Hellfire ) Quran 30:22 "And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge." My comment: The '' BASIC '' message of God to the human is that '' YOU '' believe in God and be kind to other human beings / animals and in the > RETURNED < God will reward ''YOU'' with a new life in Paradise. * The Quran ONLY guides you how to become a good human being "Nothing Else". * You are a good human being or a bad human being that is YOUR choice. * No one can force you to become a good human being. * You MUST work HARD to become a good human being. * Why should ''YOU'' do good deeds and avoid bad deeds? * Do Good - it's for You. Do Bad - It's against you. * '' YOUR'' life is a TEST from God that you will choose to do either Good or Bad. * Find the excuse to help others and forgive others NOT the other way around. * '' YOUR '' final destination is either Hell or Heaven. . * So work HARD toward choice of YOUR destination. . Quran 17:7 '' If you do good, you will do so for your own good. And if you do evil, it will be to your own loss.''..
@J w Agnostic would be a better description of me. WLC's arguments are without solid evidence and are constantly based on his feelings and meaningless internal inspirations. Only a self-serving phony could project such nonsense without acknowledging that anyone with a critical mind would see right through him. Where is there any evidence, for example, in his statement about stepping outside at night, seeing the Milky Way and realizing that he is loved by God? How foolish. Face it, he's a phony only slightly less blatant than a Joel Olsteen.
Dr. Craig is so knowledgeable and humble at the same time. You are helping a lot of people through your education and your Christ-like manner.
You are a true inspiration and the best teacher for philosophy and theology Sir....May God bless you and your family abaduntly :D
Great interview. What a legend!
Godbless to your ministry Dr. Lane Craig.... More strengh and goodhealth....
I love Dr. Craig like a brother. He always inspires me to be well prepared as an apologist for our precious faith.
Personal testimony at the end of witnessing is the way set out by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. At the end of the eye witnesses of the resurrection, he includes his story. As Dr Craig said, it's good to hear the evidence first, weakening the delusional accusation ahead of time.
Perhaps the best, fastest method in which a human being is able to obtain spiritual maturity, and develop an understanding of truths with eternal certainty is by experiencing them in a physical sense , simultaneously experiencing the truths emulated, in correlation with what we spiritually experience. Could I empathize for someone else who has been mistreated or develop the capacity to understand it without having experienced that myself? Could inexperience promote the capability, or probability to have become abusive? Take care in that what doesn’t kill you doesn’t make you a monster also, instead of better, and stronger than they are. Overcome your tragedies or they will take you under. My personal gratitude for greatness in mentoring ( Thank you), Dr. William Lane Craig.
Such a great servant of Christ!
Dude, relax. You freak people out with that kind of comment. We get it, relax, bruh
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At 34:00, Dr. Craig is making one of his many excellent points. Alas, as a Molinist, he is not entitled to it.
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He thinks that, for any person P whom God could create, he knows what P would freely choose in any (choice-permitting) circumstances in which P could possibly find himself. Therefore, if he were thinking of creating person P, who would reject him, but he would prefer not to be rejected, then he could create person P* instead, P* being a person who would accept him. If Molinism were true, a loving God would not create anyone who would, after all is said and done, reject him.
Very false. God creating beings capable of rebellion is a consequence of him wanting to genuinely have a relationship. God is not interested in glorified marionettes he can use to entertain himself.
@@TONyjustRoCks I agree with you! However, the Molinist, in effect, labels the actions of the marionettes 'FREE', and expects us to buy it. We should not. It is Molinism, not I, that says that God knows in advance everything that any person will ever do, and yet says that persons are free.
@@arthurofalbion There are no marionettes on molinism. You're confused and your point is as well. God knew I would choose to comment, rather than refrain. God's knowledge didnt cause me to comment, I did. In fact, knowledge itself doesn't cause anything. This is a common misunderstanding, but you've simply made a category error. Just because God knows something in advance, it does not mean he directly authored/caused it.
For example, suppose God creates his own RNG(random number generator). He made this machine to output random numbers. So every time he uses it, a random number will show. Now suppose God lets it run for 6000 years, one number every day. At the end of 6000 years, the machine will put out one last number. Notwithstanding, God knew what number it would be before he even started the machine. But since God already knew the last number, does it mean he was the one who generated the number? Nope, it was the RNG. The RNG was made to generate random numbers on it's own. So just because God knew the final number, it does not follow that he directly made that number manifest. He simply created an autonomous scenario, despite him knowing absolutely everything beforehand.
@@TONyjustRoCks I think that your illustration is helpful. By my calculations, 6000 years from today (i.e., 30 Aug. 8020) is 2191455 days away, taking leap years into account. There are infinitely many possible random number generators* that would, if created and initialised, produce one random number per day for 2191455 days. Now, according to you, God knows, for each of them, what its final output would be. To be consistent, you must also affirm that he knows all its outputs, and the order in which they would be generated. Indeed, if he chose, he could create one that would generate the natural numbers 1, 2, 3, . . ., 2191455, in that order. It would not do this because it was designed to do it, nor because God caused it to do it, since it would be a true RNG. (Certainly, God’s knowing would not have caused it to do it, if anyone might think that.) Now, let us suppose that God actually created and initialised such an RNG, and allowed it to run its course. Could he then regret the sequence produced? (E.g., if it generated an ugly, messy sequence, could he wish that it had brought forth the nice, natural sequence I specified?) Of course not. If he has the kind of knowledge you claim he has, he could pick any sequence he wanted and create a true RNG to produce it, despite the fact that, in that case, he would neither design it to produce the sequence, nor cause it to do so.
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The application to Molinism is fairly straightforward. By that doctrine, for any person P whom God could create, he knows what P would freely choose in any (choice-permitting) circumstances in which P could find himself. Suppose that God created P, and that, in circumstances C, P freely chose X over Y. Since the choice was free, he could have chosen Y instead. Therefore, it was possible for there to be a person in C who chose Y over X. God could have created such a person, and he would have done had he wanted Y to be chosen in C. Y would have been chosen then, despite the fact that God would neither have caused it to be ‘chosen’, nor designed the person ‘choosing’ in such a way that he had to ‘choose’ it. Accordingly, he cannot now regret the choice of X over Y. For example, he cannot regret that a person has freely rejected him in circumstances C, since, had he wanted to be accepted in C, he would have created someone who would have done so. So long as Dr. Craig continues to adhere to Molinism, he is talking nonsense when he says that God wants as many as possible to accept him. If Molinism were true, _everyone_ would accept him, and they would do so freely (uncaused, etc.).
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* Note that a true random number generator would be fundamentally different from the digital ‘random number’ generators with which many are familiar. The numbers they generate are actually pseudo-random, i.e., functionally equivalent to random, but actually not random at all. For example, a simple generator of pseudo-random numbers could be designed to provide its digits by copying them sequentially from the decimal expansion of a specific irrational number. Knowledge of the first n digits of such an expansion does not, in itself, allow one to determine the (n + 1)th digit. In this sense, it is as if the digits are random. Of course, they aren’t _really_ random, since none could possibly be different.
@James Watson Regret doesnt even begin to factor into molinism at all. God never regrets anything he does. If you mean regret as in "sorrow for it happening" then yes. God could have C scenario where P does X instead of Y(what God desires). God knows he will choose X, but can still be displeased due to it being a genuine choice. I dont like bare logical "this or that" scenarios too much because I think it doesnt represent reality fully. For example, there are some scenarios I believe God can accomplish his plan regardless of human choices in certain situations. I'm even open to God calvinistically forcing an action on a person in a situation, I just don't think he needs to. And your idea of just "swapping out" for a person who would do Y is an example of bare thought experiment that doesnt reflect reality much. God didnt swap out Judas for someone else, or just never call him in the first place. God has many other goods in his mind that we dont know fully and thus permits evil actions he is well equipped to never allow to exist. Saying "God can create a person who does Y instead in C" just doesnt apply to reality. Putting a different person(P*) in the "same" C actually makes it a different C. God wanted P to choose Y, not P*. To be honest though, I think most of this talk is fluff because I'm not seeing a real argument.
"If [middle knowledge is true], he could pick any sequence he wanted and create a true RNG to produce it."
No, God can't. That is logically incoherent; it's just a flat contradiction. God cannot influence or alter a RNG's output by definition or it ceases to be an RNG. God cannot craft it in such a way to control the output if he abides by the rules of what it means to be a RNG.
And so I dont see how molinism is "nonsense" if God wants the maximal number of people saved. Try simplifying your objection and type less so I can clearly see your argument. All I've seen are false assertions but no real reason why molinism(and thus Craig) cannot be compatible with maximal people being saved.
I’m a huge fan but we need some great new blood with new arguments.
The "church:"
1) Has little care or knowledge of true faith/relationship with God through Christ
2) It follows, then, there is a built in bias against or suspicion of apologetics
3) Their cultural belief and attendant shallowness, mitigate concern about their children losing their faith in college, for example.
John 6:50...
Not wishing to cast doubt upon the story of how he became a devoted Christian, but it seems to me that he was simply depressed and the panacea for it was faith. Fine, but that says nothing of Christianity being true. In the same way that had he become a Muslim it wouldn't have made Islam true
When did he ever argue that Christianity is true because he became a Christian?
Craig is a brilliant guy and a nice guy. However, it really bothers me that even when he is in casual conversation, when asked a question, he always repeats the identical answer, with the identical words, with the identical tone of voice. These totally rehearsed responses to the interviewers queries, are quite shocking actually. It's one thing, in a debate, to repeat a rehearsed speech in presenting an idea or rebuttal, but in these friendly, casual discussions - it is very strange. And it is even stranger that so brilliant a thinker as Craig, who I know is a masterful speaker - would resort to this unusual manner of conversing. Sorry Bill - but you really should try to be more spontaneous in these types of settings. Don't worry if you miss something in your story here and there.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. But maybe he just repeats the story the same way because hes asked so often so he just resorts to his easy "script." Either way I do think a spontaneity could be more impactful and less strange.
Why would you ever need to change your answer if that's the best possible answer as you understand a matter. No one has come back, to my knowledge, with a defeating reply to any of his arguments. In similar fashion, I see no reason why to change the gospel message even though its been out there over 2000 years.
What are you talking about?
Is he supposed to start lying when he answers questions? If two people ask him the same question, of course he is going to give the same answer lol.
And his testimony is something that he has memorized so that he can give a short presentation to anyone who asks.
You are complaining about nothing.
This may be a side point but the mention of people being scared of the possibility of being sent on a mission to Africa exposes America's ignorance of life in Africa and indeed quite a concerted effort to keep life on the continent as lowly as they possibly can. Meanwhile a good number of people struggling with life in the US could have their lives turned around if they were to relocate or at least live for a while on the continent. Americans need education on this front.
I would disagree. As a South African, life is cheap here. Our country is not a warzone but it has one of the highest murder rates in the world. As for living standards, a poor person in America will be considered middle class here but when that is weighed up against the corrupt governments and the culture of corruption in many parts of Africa, the idea of relocating may be perceived as not worth it.
@@Flipver0 Well SA's crime rate is the odd one out of the sub-Saharan average and Apartheid has a lot to do with that. Ghana's crime rate is same with Belgium which is better than both UK and US. Your transposition of standard of living also doesn't work because the wages some of them are making in the US makes them literally live on month to month salaries. In Africa they'd only be middle class if they were to receive the same wages but live in a country where living costs are lower. That isn't indicative of quality of life. So no, your rebuttal doesn't hold
@@tomsea6017 False, I mentioned the living standards of Americans not their salaries because of what you mentioned so your argument doesn't hold. In fact, you committed the straw man fallacy because you provided a response to an argument that you think that I was making as opposed to the actual one. People earn varying salaries but how they live are two separate issues. That is why I say that in the USA, those considered poor have air conditioning in their houses while such in South Africa is actually something that the rich can afford. So it's clear you did not understand my argument.
I just used South Africa as an example due to its high murder rate. Also we should not forget how African dictators destroyed their own countries because of misguided policies. Look at Zimbabwe and DRC to name a few. Look at the war that took place in Sudan and the what happened in Libya. They have open slave markets. Africa is a mess right now.
@@Flipver0 Firstly, that was funny, all that about strawman. That was bogus. I just broke down salaries to contextualise people's living standards. To go off on that as a strawman was pathetic. Poor people in America have air conditioners in their homes? You think we're talking about movies? There are people in America who barely have portable water to drink. Excuse me with the nonsense as if I don't know what is happening there. I live in the West. I see some pathetically poor here.
Secondly, I see how you conveniently pretend the situations in the various countries you cite just happened. Sorry, you're either being dishonest or totally disconnected from reality. Libyans were having a way better life before they were invaded on flimpsy bogus excuses. DRC had their legimate president murdered with the help of Belgium and USA.Zimbabwe suffered crippling sanctions because they failed to succumb to European pressure. I think I know exactly who you are by your line of arguments. I see right through it. The hypocrisy and pretence, as if these countries just became what they became by accident. Sorry I won't buy it. And I also saw how you conveniently ignored the connection of SA's crime rate with apartheid. I definitely know your type. Africa is better off without you and their delusional rescripted history.
@@tomsea6017
Nice try but you are now resorting to more straw men.
Again, if you compare living standards in USA and compare to Africa, the USA has a far better living standards. Yes there is abject poverty in the USA and Africa but if one has to compare those that are considered officially poor in the USA, almost half those homes have air conditioning. That's a massive living standard gap. In South Africa, that will only be afforded by the wealthy and the upper middle class.
Your point on Libya can be contested but the point still remains that USA is better off than Libya right now which shows why so many people would not want to go into Africa for ministry. Your point on Zimbabwe is laughable given history itself. The country literally expropriated farms without compensation and gave them over to ZANU-PF cronies and those who knew nothing about running a commercial farm. This led to Zim becoming a net importer when from being the bread basket of Africa. The sanctions did nor help, but Zimbabwe was already doomed when they decided to perform land grabs. Not sure if you know, but they Zim government is deciding to give the land back to white farmers and compensate others because they knew what they did was wrong. I can see you are attempting to drive an anti western narrative which is that Africa's problems are due to the West. That is false. Africa has been independent for over 50 years and yet it is still poor. Clearly it is their leaders. Furthermore no one said it happened by accident. In fact, I said that it was due to the leaders and their misguided policies. That's another straw man.
Anyway, your rant on the west 'ruining' Africa does nothing to prove that Americans are ignorant in Africa. In fact, it shows that they have every reason to be fearful because according to you, the west ruined Africa so much.
Also excuse me for not knowing what's happening in Africa despite living here my whole life
Teaching children religion will be banned soon and such a charlatans prosecuted.
Christians are prosecuted for 2 thousands years ,you idiot...
You are an authoritarian fascist 💁♂️
Islam The Beautiful Religion
( Be Just )
Quran 5:8
'' O you who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the > HATRED OF OTHERS TO YOU < make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. ''
Quran 4:58
'' Indeed, God commands you to render trusts to whom they are due and when you judge between people to judge with justice. Excellent is that which God instructs you. Indeed, God is ever Hearing and Seeing.''
( God's The Rules Of War )
Quran 2:190
'' Fight in the way of God > THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU < but do not transgress. Indeed. God does not like transgressors. ''
Quran 2 :193
'' And fight them on until there is no more oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. ''
Quran 4:90
''.........So if they withdraw from you and cease their hostility and offer you peace, in that case Allah has not granted you permission to fight against them.''
Quran 8:61
''And if they seek peace, then you also seek it, and put your trust in God. He is the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.''
( Stand Up For Justice )
Quran 4 :135O
'' Ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against > YOURSELVES, < or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.''
( Who Are The Good Human Beings? )
Quran 177
'' Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in God, the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, IN SPITE OF LOVE FOR IT, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives charity; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous. ''
( Freedom To Believe And To Reject )
Quran 2:256
'' Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error ''
Quran 10:99
'' And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then would you compel the people in order that they become believers? ''
( Tolerance For Other Religions )
Quran 109: 1- 6
Say,"O disbelievers,
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor are you worshipers of what I worship.
Nor will I be a worshiper of what you worship.
Nor will you be worshipers of what I worship.
For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
( Protection for Idol Worshiper )
Quran 9:6
"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are people who do not know. "
Quran16:125
“Call people to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good teaching, and argue with them in the most courteous way”
Quran7:199 “Be tolerant....”
( Friendship With Non Muslims )
Quran 60:8
'' God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly. ''
( Do Christians And Jews and "OTHER" non-Muslims go to Heaven? )
Quran 2:62
'' Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,->ANY { On Judgement Day }
( According to the Quran Christians and Jews worship TRUE God )
(Quran 3:113-114)
'' Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book ( Christians and Jews ) are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.''
Note: According to the Quran that Jesus is not God nevertheless Christians still worship one '' TRUE '' God.
( Allah Is The Protector Of Monasteries, Churches, Synagogues And The Mosques )
Quran 22:40
[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is God ." And were it not that God checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of God is much mentioned. And God will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, God is Powerful and Exalted in Might.
( Why Are There So Many Different Religions In The World ? )
Quran 5 48
''...... If God wanted He could have made all of you a single nation. But He willed otherwise in order to test you in what He has given you;(scriptures) therefore try to excel one another in good deeds. Ultimately you all shall return to God; then He will show you the truth of those matters in which you '' DISPUTE.''
NOTE:
Quran 3:85
''If anyone desires a religion other than Islam ("submission" to God), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good)''
My explanation of above verse
Islam mean "submission" to God
( The above verse saying is that God will not accept a religion from the "MUSLIM" and the Non-Muslims but total "submission" to God.)
Question: How Can Muslim And the Non-Muslim "submit" to the God?
Answer: Be kind to other human beings and Do not lie, Do not steal, Do not cheat, Do not hurt others, Do not be prideful and Do the charity work.
( God Allow Muslims To Marry And Eat Food From the Christian And Jew And Vice Versa )
Quran 5;5
''This day [all] good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture ( Christian and Jew) is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And [lawful in marriage are] chaste women from among the believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture ( Christian and Jew) before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse or taking [secret] lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.''
( Kindness Toward Atheists / Apostate )
Quran 60:8
'' As for such [of the unbelievers( atheist)] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. ''
( All The Terrorists / Killers Will Enter Hell Fire )
Quran 5:32
"......Whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely......"
( Turned Your Enemies Into Your Best Friends )
Quran 41:34
"The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity (will become) as though he was a bosom friend."
( The Husband and The Wife Are > Protecting Friends < One Of Another )
Quran 9:71
''And the believers, men and women, are > Protecting Friends < one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey God and His messenger. As for these, God will have mercy on them. Lo! God is Mighty, Wise.''
Quran16:97
“To whoever, male or female, does good deeds and has faith, We shall give a good life and reward them according to the best of their actions.
Quran 30:21
“And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquility in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy…”
The Prophet Muhammad said, “Heaven lies under the feet of your mother.”
( Human Are One family )
Quran 49:13
" O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."
( All The Racist People Will Enter Hellfire )
Quran 30:22
"And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge."
My comment:
The '' BASIC '' message of God to the human is that '' YOU '' believe in God and be kind to other human beings / animals and in the > RETURNED < God will reward ''YOU'' with a new life in Paradise.
* The Quran ONLY guides you how to become a good human being "Nothing Else".
* You are a good human being or a bad human being that is YOUR choice.
* No one can force you to become a good human being.
* You MUST work HARD to become a good human being.
* Why should ''YOU'' do good deeds and avoid bad deeds?
* Do Good - it's for You. Do Bad - It's against you.
* '' YOUR'' life is a TEST from God that you will choose to do either Good or Bad.
* Find the excuse to help others and forgive others NOT the other way around.
* '' YOUR '' final destination is either Hell or Heaven.
.
* So work HARD toward choice of YOUR destination.
.
Quran 17:7
'' If you do good, you will do so for your own good. And if you do evil, it will be to your own loss.''..
😂😂😂
Worst joke of the century. It seems to me you need to study your religion more cuz it definitely isn't the lie you seek to propagate.
This WLC has to be a phony. There can be no other explanation.
Ur an ignoramus
@J w Agnostic would be a better description of me. WLC's arguments are without solid evidence and are constantly based on his feelings and meaningless internal inspirations. Only a self-serving phony could project such nonsense without acknowledging that anyone with a critical mind would see right through him. Where is there any evidence, for example, in his statement about stepping outside at night, seeing the Milky Way and realizing that he is loved by God? How foolish. Face it, he's a phony only slightly less blatant than a Joel Olsteen.
@@vgrof2315 😄😄😄 your mommy let you to use internet?
@@vgrof2315 you should probably read his academic material.