Introducing Mozart's Fortepiano
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ค. 2018
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Introducing the predecessor of the modern piano, the fortepiano.
OAE Principal keyboard Steven Devine shows us the instrument Mozart would have played towards the end of his life.
Watch Steven play the last movement of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 23 on fortepiano here:
• MOZART: Piano Concerto...
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I wish my piano had dark mode
Malcolm Lynas just update the OS
Underrated comments
scratch a pentagram onto it
Ben lmao
I wonder what time in history they decided to switch the coloring of the keys...
That bassoon is a "fuzz pedal" for hard rockin' tunes. "Raucous and awful" as the speaker mentioned. That's the tone of rock guitar. I bet those aristocratic teenagers at the dance loved that effect.
I was thinking the same thing. Imagine what we could do using the pianoforte electrified. ;)
"Aristocratic teenagers" is the best mental image I've had in years
Those rebellious teenagers were playing boogie woogie on the futuristic, modern instrument we call piano.
Sounds like a honky tonk piano. Like I’d be chewing cocaine gum and calling out LENNNYYYYYY while listening to that.
@@DevonvanderMaat Could be the name of a punk band.
That basoon pedal, was basically an early distortion pedal, for piano. Humour of that aside, it's interesting, and kinda proves our attraction to distorted sound goes way further back than rock/blues/jazz music. Though it sounds stanky as hell, I think it could be used quite effectively, to summon distress, if you will. So you've got an operetta, and the bad guy is approaching - that kind of thing.
"Those damn punksters" -Lady in the Baroque times probably
A fully diminished seventh chord would sound pretty raunchy
It's amazing to think of what people were able to create just using cloth, leather, and metal.
"this pedal is used probably in dance music"
Great now I imagine that's like their idea of wubwub or distortion effect in EDM and they do that in some rowdy ballroom after party or something
I imagine the pedal was applied rhythmically, not constantly as in this video.
"drop the brass"
>everyone pirouettes
@@ThreadBomb It's very hard to say. As it's a knee-lever and the purpose was to modify the sound, I think that a blanket approach is more likely. That is certainly the case with a sustain mechanism on this type of instrument, according to most sources.
It tracks
@@discomfort5760 I can't stop laughing
03:10 The original distortion pedal
Underrated comment.
Lmao
Sounds like a harpsichord
You're goddamn right
Turning black keys into white! Lol
if you can play it slowly...
@@kawaiibiscuits4379 you can play it quickly
Amaazing
Interesting!
Ling ling disapproves
That "most of the time" is simultaneously an adorable light jab and a devastating burn, and I am all here for it.
Mozart’s English composition pupil had first visited M. towards the end of July 1785 in the afternoon -
‘I said to him, Herr Mozart, I would very much like to learn how to write a correct fugue under your Instruction...’ to which he replied in broken English : ‘Tis all ways best to first study plain counterpoint for about a twelvemonth - then it will be quite enough time to start talking about composing fugues.’
Tho’ the weather outside was quite warm & humid, M. was quite formally drest and was busy writing quartets [probably K. 465 ‘the Dissonant’ in C-major] the six dedicated to Haydn at his stand-up writing table-he was pleas’d to meet an Englishman having himself liv’d in England for over a year as a child with so many fond memories & soon became very animated -but when I shook his hand I was surpris’d that his hand was so unnaturally cold on such a hot day…
‘Now he had in his Study a large forte-piano which was equipt with a removable pedal board attachment at its base not unlike organ pedals of 4 octaves from c to c’’ consisting of 32 notes-acting just like a second piano…’
‘My own private lessons in composition began the following week [Monday 1 August 1785 consisting of 6 lessons a week…] at which time I shew’d him some composition exercises & Arias I had copied out in Naples (first under Filipo Cinque [1745-1810] and later under Gaetano Latilla (1711-1788) ; [Attwood also seems to have interacted to some degree with both Giocomo Insanguine [1728-1795] & Salvatore Rispoli [1739-1812] during the years 1783 to early 1785]
‘M. glanc’d over the sheets & quickly put them aside & said to me ‘My friend, it appears we must begin from the beginning judging by what you have shewn me…’
Can you do a follow-up video on the organ-stile 32 note [4-octave] pedal board attachment which added force & volume to Mozart’s live Klavier concerti performances in public after 1785 (e.g. K. 466 & K. 491 etc.) ?
I for one would be very interested in knowing exactly how much more volume & Pow’r this pedal attachment added to the notes on the page written for right & left hands …
It is brain wrenching to think of great concertos being formed in almost more of a chamber setting, I can only imagine the balance, the subtly and the emotional intensity of being pressent during a great classical concerto on an instrument like this and in a time like that.
troll
@SmeagolTheBeagle A Flower?
The Rondo alla Turca was very appropriate for the bassoon lever. It sounded like cymbals.
3:23 I almost fell over at this point 😂
Woah, nice seeing you here!
I guess the “bassoon mode” was meant to mimic the harsh and jangly effect of Turkish janissary bands, which were en vogue in Europe at the time (making it especially appropriate to the Rondo alla Turca).
Beethoven calls for the special effect of the sustain in the Moonlight Sonata (held through the entire piece) with the moderator pedal as indicated in Italian in the score.
I didn’t know that. But it might not be a good idea to have the sustain pedal down all the way through on a modern piano, because the sound decay is much longer and fuller in tone than on the forte-piano, and the overall effect would be much blurrier and possibly muddier than Beethoven or Mendelssohn would have expected to get from those pedal directions.
Thanks for that great bit of historical insight.
"held through the entire piece" - Any source for this? All I can see everywhere is "Adagio sostenuto".
@@CoolKoon The Adagio sostenuto is the entire piece to which I refer to. The general public only thinks in terms of the first movement in its association of the Moonlight and not the rest of the Sonata somewhat like a Fantasia, in fact wouldn't know the following movements if played separately from the Adagio. John Lennon upon hearing the Adagio sostenuto, thought chord progression was interesting but used the harmonic progressions retrograde (backwards) for the Beatles track " Because " on their final album recorded, but penultimately released. (Yoko Ono played it on the piano backwards when he asked).
@@NiallsSongs Czerny wrote that by Mid-19th Century that the first movement couldn't be played as written on the current pianos. I have re-examined con sordino and senza sordino indications and these refer to the equivalent of the now more common pedal being depressed and released, unfortunately, Italian is not my first language, and the original publication (for Harpsichord or fortepiano, seems to coincide with most pedal indications, if not entirely in later publications). Gottfried Silbermann invented the damper stop which had to be pulled and pushed in by hand, when he championed in the fortepiano in Germany, which became knee levels in Austria, and pedals in Great Britain. The Knee levers were used to activated and withdraw stops in France and the Low Country harpsichords and pedals in the UK) ironically, because the Silbermann Fortepianos were introduced into France from Germany, the French original thought that Silbermann, and not Cristofori, was the pianos inventor for a time.
Can anyone imagine MOZART`s reaction upon being presented a modern 88 key grand piano ..brands not necessary to mention ,
Mozart never heard his piano concerto music as we hear it today
After owning AMADEUS the movie since it became available and the yearly ritualistic viewing , I can imagine that Mozart would have been inspired to write music of imponderable beauty , complementing the already astounding beauty of his works we are all familiar with .
This old piano is actually more expressive than modern pianos which are designed for concert halls. Mozart would have preferred the old one
With the bassoon lever on, it sounds a bit like harpsichord.
It does to me as well and I wonder if that was to appease those converting from it - and perhaps was not much used and vanished
Sounds like a cracked speaker cone.
I like that plain sanded wood look so much more than the dark modern piano look.
I've always liked the reverse color of those keys. (I suppose the way most keyboards are now are the ones that are really reversed!)
The gaps between those black keys are black, hard to see, the gaps between white keys are black - easy to see
I think keyboards were always big keys white, small keys black in Italy and Spain. And everywhere in organs.
I love the switched colours. Looks amazing
it's easy to understand how moza could have been enamoured, and inspired, by these instruments, as they sound so delicately balanced and well defined. Unlike most modern piano's, that seldom have that kind of definition and always sound harsh and "blurry" to my ears, certainly in comparison, even to the harpsichord, which i really like.
Who is this gentleman who did this episode. He is exceedingly pleasant and suited to explaining and drawing one in to this subject. Thank you
Quite advanced for it's time i think. Wonder if there is a lot of maintenance for this instrument.
Extremely interesting. Not enough gets written or videos made about the historical instrument makers who actually produced the instruments that made the music of Mozart and Bach etc. possible. This goes for all types of instruments from keyboards to violins to brass. Anyone who works with wood or has any engineering/design/manufacturing background can appreciate the extremely high level of workmanship involved. It's truly fantastic. Hundreds of years later, we have never surpassed the original makers. Their standards are still the ones to match.
It took me a while to get used to the sound of the fortepiano, but now it's very difficult for me to hear the Viennese classics played on a modern grand. The Haydn sonatas sound hideous on a modern grand, and Beethoven's Waldstein, with all its running passages in the bass, now sounds muddy and clouded on a modern piano. The fortepiano reveals the sharp clarity of the deep bass, the almost folklike geniality of the tenor and alto registers, and the twangy, triangle-like tic-toc of the high soprano. Thank you so much for this video.
Edit: I wish Professor Devine hadn't apologised so much for the bassoon stop. I found it quite exhiliarating, like a fortepiano version of a regal.
I agree with you totally. If I hear any of the music of that period played on modern pianos it sounds "off" to me now, not quite right. You are so right about Haydn! When I first heard his piano sonatas played on fortepianos it was wow, what a difference! They came alive! Same with Beethoven's piano sonatas also and Mozart's. Mozart's fantasias are amazing when played on the fortepiano. I like how you describe the 3 registers- they sound like that to me too. I liked that bassoon stop!
@@mabel8179 Thanks for your kind remarks! I have been a rabid fan of period performance since hearing a recording of Nikolaus Harnoncourt (still my favorite interpreter) and his Concentus Musicus Wien in 1975. I think so much has been lost in subtlety, grace and sheer beauty of sound by the changes in instrument construction over the past two hundred fifty years or so. The violence done to stringed instruments of the 17th and 18th centuries, simply to make them louder, is heartbreaking. Fortunately more and more players are taking an interest in such matters. Hopefully the trend continues! Thanks again! ☺
I half-agree with you. For Haydn & Mozart I do agree many sound sonatas better. But Beethoven is tricky. In some respects there are no instruments that completely suit his sonatas. The fortepianos are unsatisfactory for dynamic range and for every passage where the clarity of the bass can be improved, there is another passage where the lack of power in the bass is a handicap. Particularly as Beethoven's hearing deteriorates, and he gained access to iron-framed pianos, I suspect Beethoven was composing for an ideal piano in his mind that no-one has yet built...
Jason Hurd Agree with much of that; the only thing I would add is that not all fortepianos were the same, and that they developed rapidly but at different rates in different countries. The Broadwood, and Longman & Broderip instruments Haydn encountered in London in the 1790’s were clearly far more advanced than anything he (or Mozart) knew in Vienna and this is very obvious in his piano writing.
The other issue I find interesting is that some of the textures in for example, the thick left hand chords in bars 32 - 34 of the andante movement of Mozart’s Sonata in a minor (K310), would have been written very differently had Mozart conceived the music to be played on a more modern instrument. I’ve always found these bars extremely difficult, not technically (they are very straightforward), but in terms of balancing the left and right hand - similar to your Waldstein point. I once came across a fortepiano in Italy and was able to try this passage, and it made perfect sense on that instrument. The following long section of arpeggiated accompaniment (from bar 37), is also more difficult to get right on a modern piano and sounds very different on a fortepiano.
I agree with your sentiments on Haydn and Beethoven. While I won't go so far as to say their music sounds "hideous" on a modern piano, today's pianos force much of the composers' intent to get lost in translation. Much of the wonderful Sturm und Drang is almost completely smoothed over!
I really enjoyed this video. The fortepiano is beautiful and Mr. Devine gave a concise and easy to follow summary of the design and sound of this lovely instrument.
The brass lever was for ragtime. Duh.
;-)
Beethoven had the first recognisable jazz riffs in one of his late piano sonatas.
@@williampuckett5440 No 32 Opus 111. It is a right surprise when it comes up lol. Look for Ronald Brautigam playing it on fortepiano- he is great!
lohphat
brass levers happen always at ragtime if you dont believe me ask your sister .. DUH!!!
sorry couldn't resist 😝😝🤒😶😶😔
@@mabel8179 it's about 6 minutes into the 2nd movement if you wonder
@@mabel8179- thanks, I've been looking for this piece for a long time
One thing to realize about using unlimited sustain is that the sustain per note on an early fortepiano is a whole lot less long than on a modern piano, so leaving the dampers off then would give you a way less muddy result than holding down the right pedal indefinitely on a modern piano. Sonically, this fits the way we think of Mozart and Haydn pretty well, but not so much with Beethoven because Beethoven works very well on modern pianos (and modern orchestras). What’s interesting when we look at Beethoven is that we realize he was hearing something way different than what we hear now and that would almost definitely have affected performance practice. You play the opening C minor chord of the Pathetique on a 13’ Bosendorfer and the result is massive and dramatic and also a sound Beethoven never heard. You play the same chord on this instrument and what you get instead is melodramatic, a sort of drama more akin to the playing used to accompany silent movies (which was sonically more like the early instrument). To get dramatic out of that instrument would take a lot of extreme exaggeration, a lot of abrupt changes in dynamics and phrasing because the player can only rely on the inherent drama of the instrument itself so much.
The bassoon lever is incredible!
Maybe the middle pedal was used to emulate the sounds of a harpsichord perhaps? I mean, that's the best reason I could think of.
Incredibly lovely
This is AMAZING!!!! Thank you for the video!!!
1:11 I really like the affect of that on the sound quality. I wish this was still standard in pianos, especially grands.
But una corda can do similar but not the same of course!! 😕
@@HiHello-rs1ey Yeah, I still hope we can get that timbre from the felt one day, though!
It’s on a lot of upright “parlour” pianos. But not grands.
I absolutely love the videos from the OAE. I very much enjoy Baroque music (but I like Adams and Messaien too), and these very nice people do a great job expIaining why Baroque instruments are different from modern ones. I think my favorite is the one about the theorbo.
Beautiful house and beautiful piano , this is life about!!!
Very nice video and instrument indeed!
I love it! Sound beautiful
The instrument "that can make a Mozart run sound like a string of pearls ..."
I love this! I didn't want the music to stop at the end of the video.
Well I mean it's not gonna finish after the video if u think about it
That was an awesome demonstration. Thank you
thank you
Fascinating... Thank you.
I wanna hear some jazz played on it!
k l y t u s some Scott Joplin please
I know just the guy. Please see my comment above.
me too
Or blues!
k l y t u s Hey, that would sound good. And there could be a baroque double bass playing the walking bass line.
This instrument is so magnificent, I wonder where I could get one if it’s possible. I would love to play it, what a wonderful treasure.
So amazing souds many thanks
Very cool
That sounds so great.......you can't beat a bit of Mozart
Enjoyed the playout.
fascinating. very engaging instrumentalist
I sooo want to play on that!
Great video.
Beautiful. Thank you very much for that. Orchestra of the age of the Enlightenment is one of the best channels I’ve ever subscribed to. Filled with beautiful musical knowledge. It also signals something that is filled with Light, in an era where barbaric ideas are trying to extinguish it from the Western civilisation.
a great piano for great masters, great video bro! :-)
Bravo thanks
Love that haydn sonata!
No 27, he plays the first movement
lol
I really like the sound of the bassoon lever
That is amazing
That was so cool
I just learned. And it didn't hurt!
No, seriously, this was a wonderful introduction and explanation of the pianoforte. And the demo at the end wasn't enough. The TEASE is that Beethoven composed for this instrument, maybe the first few concertos or maybe all of them, and now I want to go back and find an authentic performance using pianoforte and a suitable selection of orchestral instruments that complement it.
I literally am artistically salivating. ;)
You could also have shewn what Mozart’s ‘pedalboard attachment’ look’d like (=an organ pedal board of 40 notes from c to c) according to Thomas Atwood (Mozart’s English composition pupil from Monday 1 August 1785 through Saturday 3 March 1787) who visited him for the first time during the hot summer c. 24 July of 1785 -the pedal board attachment usage in Mozart’s late Klavier concerti (e.g. K. 450, K. 451, K. 453, K.456, K. 459, K. 466, K. 482, K. 491, K. 503, K. 537 and even K. 595) is absolutely vital (pitch set at A= 432hz) to a fuller understanding of exactly how Mozart’s Klavier concerti should actually sound in performance
Good video, thank you!
I have an idea what the left knee pedal would be used for. You probably wouldn’t push it up all the way, just slightly, barely grazing the strings for some harmonic properties. Almost like a pinch harmonic on the guitar, or to give it a slightly biting tone when you want to play aggressively. That’s just my guess.
Wonderful video!
Billy Lauwda I do :)
Billy Lauwda I think they‘re brilliant though. I find them very witty and humourous
this piano has nice and soft sound
This is great. Hope OAE will follow up with similar videos on “Beethoven’s” later piano (1825 Graf) and the wooden framed pianos played in the mid 19th century by Chopin, the Schumanns, Liszt and Brahms.
Liszt's Erard piano has been preserved and is occasionally taken on museum tours.
Excellent 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
the fact that synthesizers and keyboards often have 61 keys, seems to be derived from the fortepiano
I like this rancous effect! Now I am missing this on modern piano 😅
Saw him in concert playing Bach last Friday, now somehow TH-cam recommended a video that includes him and I recognised him in the thumbnail. What a coincidence.
If you bought the tickets online or use google services on your smartphone, google's algorithm probably figured out that you were there.
Wonderful Video. thanks for sharing that knowlage with us. So Beethoven diddnt play on a Grand piano just one of these ?
Love the fact the entire keyboard mechanic can be extracted from the instrument.
Incognito mode piano.
Also, that bassoon pedal is straight up distortion, you could play rock or metal on the and it would sound great.
Sehr interessant.Danke Hanna Maria
This thing skins great
The center was probably used in conjunction with the right for waltz
Its quite amazing that some of the world's most profound music, penned by some of the greatest musical minds that ever lived, was written for and performed on an instrument that, nostalgic sentiments aside, sounds no better than a old, beat-up upright that spent the past 4 decades in a Memphis bar.
Broke: FortNite
Woke: FortPiano
Woke? Ah, you're one of "those" people..
@@sideoutside I don't get it.
A G E O F E N L I G H T E N M E N T
@@sideoutside u don't get it do u aha
@@youreawhizz-headharry2669 What I don't get is how you think you get what I got. That's where you done messed up at silly child.
This is haunting
I wonder if Mozart would have loved a Moog synthesizer?
Something I've been thinking about with Bach...th-cam.com/video/U_B3Y1tXAhw/w-d-xo.html
Yes
Cole Gaskins There is a scene from “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure”, a really dumb but funny movie, where Beethoven was introduced to a synthesizer. He was fascinated by it. Ah, the creativity and the music that could have been.
Tailor made for the synthesizer, Bach not necessarily Mozart
no
Beautiful presentation and room and instrument ! !
query:
Was the width of an octave (as in handspan) lesser than it is today?
Glad you like it! Yes, the octave is a little bit narrower - there wasn't really a standard so moving from one instrument to the other can be a bit tricky sometimes!
Oooo grandioos!!
Mozart must have been writing his music with the modern, current, musical instruments in mind
He couldn’t read the future.
Film Makers: Yes, we know you have an f1.4 lens but perhaps when doing documetaries shoot f5.6-8.0 like Hollywood (your heroes) do on all motion pictures? That way everything isn't lost in DoF blur.
The sound is so clangy it would be more at home in the saloon of a Hollywood Western (with "Don't Shoot the Piano Player" sign) than in a chamber music setting.
I'd love to play a fortepiano
Where can you get one, I like the way the keys are and it’s also small enough to fit in my house
4:22
You're welcome
Good one! :)
That was amazing. I took a line out-out from a "Tablet" to a "Sound System" to hear it more clearly. The best would have been to hear it live. That was great playing as well. Thanks.
"Most of the time...." That's a hoot!!!!
what of an endearing sound...by the way, you will be suprised how beautiful a late sonata by Mozart or Haydn sounds on a good harpsicord.
I fully agree. This instrument sounds a LOT more appropriate for classicist pieces than the modern piano.
I think Beethoven sounds excellent on the modern grand, personally. It brings out the raw power and expressive nature of his sonatas.
@@BenjaminAnderson21 Yeah, Beethoven is a corner case. But I actually mostly had Haydn and especially Mozart in mind when I wrote my comment above. Especially Mozart had lots and lots of pieces written for what I thought was the piano as we know it, but TBH they always sounded somewhat odd on modern pianos. When I saw the video above and heard that instrument I finally understood why: those pieces were written for this specific instrument, not the modern piano.
The pianoforte was actually created by the Italian inventor bartolomeo cristofori from the harpsichord
What was the last Mozart violin sonata composed for harpsichord? Or rather, what was the first Mozart piece composed for fortepiano?
The effe ct of the bassoon lever reminds me of the trompette string in a hurdy-gurdy.
The basson sounds a bit like the 'Schnarrhaken' on medieval harps. Maybe it was used equally.
The bassoon lever might not be pretty but it probably did slam at parties
Love the "apology" to the bassoonists, and interesting video. I thought that Mozart only had one prototype knee-lever piano and did not think it was that useful?
Is there pedal used for the Alberti bass accompaniment passage here, or it this the result of the natural resonance as well?
Whoah, that last one sounds kinda like a brayed harp!
The middle lever is for METAL! \m/
You mean the left lever
Oops! No wonder my metal was pretty weak.
Didn't I see you in the carillon section?
That was very cool! Thank you. 👏🎹
I am having trouble knowing when to use the sustain pedal in classical pieces with my teacher. I would like to know in which sonata Haydn calls for pedal.
Roast Bassoon 3:23 - epic!!