@@VinayAggarwal While I agree it's a great presentation, I just wish he would switch it up. He's been giving the SAME exact talk for about two decades now. He just throws in a few new points here and there. I feel like a lot of corporate entities have seen his talks and think it will, "boost morale" to have him at their presentations. He's obviously extremely knowledgeable and I wish he'd just actually speak his mind instead of sticking to this tired old script.
Books:- Object Oriented Software Engineering: A Use Case Driven Approach Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
I watched his another similar presentation a few years back and did not quite get it. It took me a few years to finally realize what he really means. The presentation itself is brilliant, but rather high-level, not easy for a junior programmer to fullly grasp. But man, everything he said is nothing but truth.
1:01:57 "You only test the parts of the application that you want to work." The Q&A section of this video might be the best part of the whole video. Great stuff.
The total numbers of software developers in the world for 2018 was: 23 Million, according to Evans Data Corporation, which regularly conducts in-depth surveys of the global developer population. It is expected to reach 27.7 Million until 2023. So it's just 20% growth in 5 years, which is pretty far from doubling.
Alan Turing became the first developer in 1942. 2022-1942 = 80 years 80/5 = 16 doubleings So if it doubled every 5 years that means that there should be 2^16 developers. There are 27.000k devs and not 65k, which means that it way more than doubled every 5 years (on average) The last years it didn't double anymore but the average is still the average, you can't take a small sample of the data and call it a day. In 1943 I bet there were more than 100 developers already which would make this statistic as "100x more devs per year" Edit: he said 1946 but from google I got 1942 (the engima machine) nevertheless the math is still pretty much the same for a 4 year diff
I love the way Bob starts his talks...As an engineer and scientist, I don't think many of us will fail to be interested at least slightly by the start of his talks
4 ปีที่แล้ว +40
I don't get all the hate for the cameraman. He did a very decent job. The bad guy here is the lazy editor who just didn't care about the viewers.
I would agree if there was more than one camera, the second one pointing to the slides. Here it looks like there is only one camera, so the operator should pan out to the slides...
I love uncle bob, but the screen, which he points his finger to it, is more important than his experienced gray hair. By the way thank for sharing this amazing conference.
I really wish their was an architecture that removes programming language dependency too. That way I can easily shift my entities and use cases and contracts to some other language with hustle of converting em.
You have to express them in /some/ language. Nothing is going to solve that. Converting between languages is easy though if the code has no (other) technology dependencies. There are converters, and supposedly AI does a good job at it too.
I heard that the issue of toyota is people stepping on the wrong pedal, not that the code didn't work in the car. It was that people panicked and pressed on the accelerator pedal harder instead of the brake pedal.
You need to learn better history. You are completely and utterly wrong. It was a horrible horrible spaghetti-long single-function code running in a non-ECC cpu that, from the constant vibrations of the car, could effectively lock the entire code out. There's a wonderful transcription from an expert programmer witness who was allowed to view and read and examine the code from the Toyota car and the horrific things he described would make any programmer run away from any toyota car.
The smartphone has many processors except the main processor, such as image processor, 2D/3D graphics processor, audio processor e.t.c, but these processors usually do not run on software that is written by software engineers/programmers. Most of those processors are DSP - Digital Signal Processors that are designed by hardware engineers. Also the logic with if statements, algorithms in many cases can be implemented on hardware level without any software involved.
Software as in logic, discreet mathematics sciences. It's relevant to his point whether the logic happens at the software or hardware level. Implementing logic using hardware is programming. I hope that helps.
I hope Uncle Bob would agree, that paying someone to smoothly keep the camera pointing at the speaker is a waste if you only show the bottom corner of his slides.
4 ปีที่แล้ว +4
7:39 notice the people laughing like "yep, that's me"
Thanks for showing us the slides... Not, was the cameraman an HR person? Can someone write down the name he mentions here (42:50) he seems to have an incredible respect for the person so I want to research them myself.
1:11:50 sorry for the noob question, but in one of my first project not deferring the decision to use a database ended up in writing many many migrations throughout the whole project. Is this case one that would apply to what he is saying?
Programmers rule the World? Mmmm.... a long time ago I had a boss that forced me to write a wrong algorithm. I knew it was wrong and I pointed it out ... but he thought to be right, so forced me to make the program work as he wanted, and not as the program should have worked. What about such a situation? If it happens, either the programmer does what the boss says or ... fired!
How about write your version and your bosses version, have them both implement the same interface and then switch to your implementation when the problem becomes too apparent for your boss to ignore?
@@Nagashitw This is possible only when your boss gives you twice the time you need for implementing the single solution ... for implementing both you roughly need twice the time ... and if in this case the boss knows (or guesses) that you are "wasting" (according to him) your time implementing both the solutions he will not be happy for sure. You could obviously implement the second solution in your free time ... but this is not ethically correct ... I mean ... to do what you should do in your work time during your free time. But in the end, I can tell you how it ended that time. After a period of time where the "boss implementation" was in place and continued not providing the desired results the boss gave me the time to implement my initial proposal ... that actually worked and was kept ... meanwhile the wrong algorithm was used for months. So, in the end, I won ... but I didn't feel as I had "ruled the World".
@@micdestefano I feel you dude. I also worked at a project with this constant amount of pressure and it's not healthy in any sense. I think Bob's point is that in the end if there's a problem the finger will be pointed at us. I Feel like the ethical thing to do was doing your implementation, but the implications of doing so might not be worth the cost. So in the end you did what you thought it was the best for the problem presented, and that's the right thing to do, at least in my book.
Probably this one: Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software It's commonly referred to as the Gang of Four book. Considered by many THE BOOK everyone should read on design patterns.
It looks the cameraman has treated him like a performer, chasing him with camera, and was not aware of the importance of the slides being displayed! Why do these conferences use such pathetic media folks ?!
But what was the point? That humans are recent and software even more? (Or was it let him touch her arms? Bit creepy for my feel and the audience even applaudes)
@@bezoro-personal Here it was a bad perspective for me, because the time scale stuff was that trite, but he kept on going just to touch more Melissas. The other content may be great. I also read one or two books of his.
Actually there are only about 23 million programmers according to Wikipedia but that number is growing annually by a few million. That's an awful lot of inexperienced developers.
Have you seen julia :) 37:02 While I agree that software can kill people, you do realize NASA has TONS of experience creating processes to mitigate engineering risk, and we should take a page or two from their playbook, that is if you care about minimize the risk of death. When NASA's engineering massively fails (human death inclusive), they have found what went wrong in the process and fixed it, including communication skills where managers in the past had systematically dismissed engineer's warnings of potential danger.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Bloody cameraman needs to read the book "Clean Camera Positioning and Architecture" 😂
Heheheheheh heh
www.dropbox.com/s/c5pef7yyhw1up7k/Architecture%20the%20lost%20years.ppt.zip?dl=0&file_subpath=%2FArchitecture+the+lost+years.ppt%2FArchitecture+the+lost+years.ppt.ppt
fuck
It completely killed the interest of the video !
missing the slides!!
@@willh69 p👍
such a good presentation, but i will like it better to see at the things he points at the screen, it might help me understand better
Here is the presentation: twitter.com/JulianFinkler/status/1146539255709208578
@@VinayAggarwal While I agree it's a great presentation, I just wish he would switch it up. He's been giving the SAME exact talk for about two decades now. He just throws in a few new points here and there. I feel like a lot of corporate entities have seen his talks and think it will, "boost morale" to have him at their presentations. He's obviously extremely knowledgeable and I wish he'd just actually speak his mind instead of sticking to this tired old script.
@@VinayAggarwal Thank you!
a book he mentions, available on the MIT site
Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs:
web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.037/sicp.pdf
@@VinayAggarwal it's sad that twitter is banned in my country
Books:-
Object Oriented Software Engineering: A Use Case Driven Approach
Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software
Structure and Interpretation
of Computer Programs
Thank you so much
was about to do this then noticed your comment - thanks
Man, thank you... I'm looking gor this
I come back to this talk over and over again, and I can't stress enough, how important Uncle Bob's words are for anyone, who writes software.
I watched his another similar presentation a few years back and did not quite get it. It took me a few years to finally realize what he really means. The presentation itself is brilliant, but rather high-level, not easy for a junior programmer to fullly grasp. But man, everything he said is nothing but truth.
It's not, "high level" it just has more to do with social issues and programming theory than it does with computer science or engineering.
You mean low-level
You can listen to presentation with slides over here - th-cam.com/video/NeXQEJNWO5w/w-d-xo.html
1:01:57 "You only test the parts of the application that you want to work."
The Q&A section of this video might be the best part of the whole video. Great stuff.
Bob Martin gives some the most relevant talks on code and building software systems that I've watched. Thank you!
Motivated to write tests and decouple my problem from the framework I'm using.
The total numbers of software developers in the world for 2018 was: 23 Million, according to Evans Data Corporation, which regularly conducts in-depth surveys of the global developer population.
It is expected to reach 27.7 Million until 2023. So it's just 20% growth in 5 years, which is pretty far from doubling.
Alan Turing became the first developer in 1942.
2022-1942 = 80 years
80/5 = 16 doubleings
So if it doubled every 5 years that means that there should be 2^16 developers. There are 27.000k devs and not 65k, which means that it way more than doubled every 5 years (on average)
The last years it didn't double anymore but the average is still the average, you can't take a small sample of the data and call it a day. In 1943 I bet there were more than 100 developers already which would make this statistic as "100x more devs per year"
Edit: he said 1946 but from google I got 1942 (the engima machine) nevertheless the math is still pretty much the same for a 4 year diff
Important books :
Structure and interpretation of computer program
Design pattern books
i was looking for this, thank you!
you're a good man. thank you
Who is the author of the design patterns book?
@Yiannis Kryfos Thx
Good presentation by Uncle Bob but the video never show us the slides or any relate material T_T
Just so you don't miss this, i'm putting this once again: twitter.com/JulianFinkler/status/1146539255709208578
@@VinayAggarwal thanks man! You are awsome
I love the way Bob starts his talks...As an engineer and scientist, I don't think many of us will fail to be interested at least slightly by the start of his talks
I don't get all the hate for the cameraman. He did a very decent job.
The bad guy here is the lazy editor who just didn't care about the viewers.
I would agree if there was more than one camera, the second one pointing to the slides. Here it looks like there is only one camera, so the operator should pan out to the slides...
This cameraman is one of the problems of the world
Amen
www.dropbox.com/s/c5pef7yyhw1up7k/Architecture%20the%20lost%20years.ppt.zip?dl=0&file_subpath=%2FArchitecture+the+lost+years.ppt%2FArchitecture+the+lost+years.ppt.ppt
@@zzzfortezzz thank you broo
@@zzzfortezzz You're my hero! :)
One of the most interactive video ever❤️
interesting and intertaining - thank you Robert - but too bad that the presentation slides in not in the video
He's in his 80s and still rocking....
i just love the way Uncle Bob is into science 👍👍
Since Dijkstra and Mills, we have re-invented the same wheel multiple times. It looks like we will be re-inventing it again and again.
I love uncle bob, but the screen, which he points his finger to it, is more important than his experienced gray hair. By the way thank for sharing this amazing conference.
Uncle Bob, I wish you were my uncle. I'd have become an architect at 10
Damn it! I want to see what Uncle Bob's pointing at!
Doesn anyone have link to the presentation? Please do share
Thanks in bunch :)
I really wish their was an architecture that removes programming language dependency too. That way I can easily shift my entities and use cases and contracts to some other language with hustle of converting em.
You have to express them in /some/ language. Nothing is going to solve that. Converting between languages is easy though if the code has no (other) technology dependencies. There are converters, and supposedly AI does a good job at it too.
"You only test the parts of the application you want to work." - Robert C. Martin
I not only remember J++, I had Visual J++ 1.1 and it came with a free copy of NT 4 workstation. I got far more use out of NT.
excelent as a podcast!
I love how this video shows the slides
I heard that the issue of toyota is people stepping on the wrong pedal, not that the code didn't work in the car. It was that people panicked and pressed on the accelerator pedal harder instead of the brake pedal.
You need to learn better history. You are completely and utterly wrong. It was a horrible horrible spaghetti-long single-function code running in a non-ECC cpu that, from the constant vibrations of the car, could effectively lock the entire code out. There's a wonderful transcription from an expert programmer witness who was allowed to view and read and examine the code from the Toyota car and the horrific things he described would make any programmer run away from any toyota car.
The smartphone has many processors except the main processor, such as image processor, 2D/3D graphics processor, audio processor e.t.c, but these processors usually do not run on software that is written by software engineers/programmers. Most of those processors are DSP - Digital Signal Processors that are designed by hardware engineers.
Also the logic with if statements, algorithms in many cases can be implemented on hardware level without any software involved.
Software as in logic, discreet mathematics sciences. It's relevant to his point whether the logic happens at the software or hardware level. Implementing logic using hardware is programming. I hope that helps.
There always would be that one person
COBOL programmers know they run the world
29:00 "One of the biggest mistakes that programmers make is that they (...) fart too soon."
Can't agree more.
Is this slideshow published somewhere?
@IT_Konekt, can you make the slides available somewhere?
I hope Uncle Bob would agree, that paying someone to smoothly keep the camera pointing at the speaker is a waste if you only show the bottom corner of his slides.
7:39 notice the people laughing like "yep, that's me"
this camera guy is the reason why we cant have nice things
"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reasons." (Michael Horn, CEO of VW America 2015)
Why didn't he mention JavaScript? curious to know
why wont the slides show up in the video
I really want the slides... Cannot watch this without punching the screen.
Spectacular!!!
Pure Legend! Amazing presentation 👏
Cringe intro. That opening was unwatchable and pervy.
Bob always wonders why are there so few women in the software industry.
Maybe the beginning of this presentation is one of the reasons...
Camera person puts all focus on uncle Bob😂
I think he mis-remembered. "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" is by Harold Abelson, Gerald Jay Sussman and Julie Sussman.
Uncle Bob : Here is some important points in sentences which you should read.
Camera Man : By the way did you see UNCLE BOB..
Minute 7: Hahaha! Q&A at end: Awesome!
Amazing presentation! thanks a bunch!!!
On the answer for what you should test ? I was hoping to hear business logic
Thanks for showing us the slides... Not, was the cameraman an HR person?
Can someone write down the name he mentions here (42:50) he seems to have an incredible respect for the person so I want to research them myself.
Trygve Reenskaug
@@silvia6232 Thanks :)
You can listen to presentation with slides over here - th-cam.com/video/NeXQEJNWO5w/w-d-xo.html
Thank you so much for the video!
1:11:50 sorry for the noob question, but in one of my first project not deferring the decision to use a database ended up in writing many many migrations throughout the whole project. Is this case one that would apply to what he is saying?
Anyone have the slides of this talk?
Good présentation but i think the camera man does know nothing about software dev , focusing on the guys face when he shows us things in the bord :/
Please how can I get the slide to the presentation. Thanks in advance
Loved the presentation. Except for the slides.. Every word is a gem.. :)
What is "The Design Patterns book?" Lot's of books with that title are available. Anyone?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_Patterns this one
@@lucasreehorst5255 THANKS
where is the presentation?
good talk bad camera focus (uncle Bob is a detail)
What platform do we build this on?
Boss: 21:59
About Golang 35:30
1:10:00
Can someone share the Sliders?
@Peter Mortensen thanks a lot)
A good presentation, but why did he have to start with a fairy tale?
It´s Uncle Bob's trademark.
Read "Clean Architecture". It's great.
Does anyone have a pdf link to ivar Jacobson's book that Uncle bob mentions
When the cameraman thinks he's filming for Ninja Warrior or a game show.
Programmers rule the World? Mmmm.... a long time ago I had a boss that forced me to write a wrong algorithm. I knew it was wrong and I pointed it out ... but he thought to be right, so forced me to make the program work as he wanted, and not as the program should have worked. What about such a situation? If it happens, either the programmer does what the boss says or ... fired!
How about write your version and your bosses version, have them both implement the same interface and then switch to your implementation when the problem becomes too apparent for your boss to ignore?
@@Nagashitw This is possible only when your boss gives you twice the time you need for implementing the single solution ... for implementing both you roughly need twice the time ... and if in this case the boss knows (or guesses) that you are "wasting" (according to him) your time implementing both the solutions he will not be happy for sure. You could obviously implement the second solution in your free time ... but this is not ethically correct ... I mean ... to do what you should do in your work time during your free time. But in the end, I can tell you how it ended that time. After a period of time where the "boss implementation" was in place and continued not providing the desired results the boss gave me the time to implement my initial proposal ... that actually worked and was kept ... meanwhile the wrong algorithm was used for months. So, in the end, I won ... but I didn't feel as I had "ruled the World".
@@micdestefano I feel you dude. I also worked at a project with this constant amount of pressure and it's not healthy in any sense. I think Bob's point is that in the end if there's a problem the finger will be pointed at us. I Feel like the ethical thing to do was doing your implementation, but the implications of doing so might not be worth the cost. So in the end you did what you thought it was the best for the problem presented, and that's the right thing to do, at least in my book.
Sounds like a stupid boss and it's time to get a new job
Just legendary
bob took it easy on the girls, i did the arms out thing in basic training. it's hard ;^)
i think there is a not-very-intelligent sensor under the 'clean code' sticker on bob's shirt that is controlling the camera positioning
You can find the pictures in an older similar talk: th-cam.com/video/Nltqi7ODZTM/w-d-xo.html&t=
One sad thing that I can not see the slides...
which design patterns book, which author ? there are just so many
Probably this one: Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software
It's commonly referred to as the Gang of Four book. Considered by many THE BOOK everyone should read on design patterns.
Or get uncle Bob's clean architecture book
Here's the list of his recommended books: cleancoder.com/books
Guys did uncle bob has youtube channel??
anyone got title and authors of the books he mentions at about @25:00?
Camera guy specializes in podcasts
Amazing!
And I'm sure you just have to grab their hands to explain it.
It did uncle Bob, those 737 Max airplanes!
It looks the cameraman has treated him like a performer, chasing him with camera, and was not aware of the importance of the slides being displayed! Why do these conferences use such pathetic media folks ?!
Never showed the board but the rest was very well
In this video showed the presentation th-cam.com/video/NeXQEJNWO5w/w-d-xo.html
I love this man
Why no slides? :(
Why would you not show his slides?
The camera man should point the camera on the screen, hard to understand what he is talking about some times.... 37:40
Next time put the speaker in an inset and cover the screen. All the visual information is on the screen.
14:10 "exciting time in the world right now... exciting time..."
I like the way he handles Melissas :D
But what was the point? That humans are recent and software even more? (Or was it let him touch her arms? Bit creepy for my feel and the audience even applaudes)
The point was to show that he can do this. To show who's a patriarch here.
Of course, he didn't have to use humans at all.
@@lunedefroid8817 How many more generations will it take for these patriarchic traits to die out?
@@bezoro-personal Here it was a bad perspective for me, because the time scale stuff was that trite, but he kept on going just to touch more Melissas. The other content may be great. I also read one or two books of his.
@@lunedefroid8817 YES THAT!
Brilliant!!!!!!
Actually there are only about 23 million programmers according to Wikipedia but that number is growing annually by a few million. That's an awful lot of inexperienced developers.
Have you seen julia :) 37:02
While I agree that software can kill people, you do realize NASA has TONS of experience creating processes to mitigate engineering risk, and we should take a page or two from their playbook, that is if you care about minimize the risk of death. When NASA's engineering massively fails (human death inclusive), they have found what went wrong in the process and fixed it, including communication skills where managers in the past had systematically dismissed engineer's warnings of potential danger.
Camera operator really didn't know when to show us the presentation slide :(
This talk is pretty similar to the 201x rails conference one.
Uncle Bob is legend 👏
26:43 Structure and Interpretation
of Computer Programs
Why we can't see the slides....Pretty annoying.
Brilliant
Camera doesnt show the screen. Could be better if it shows.