The Doctor: *Is friend with Stalin* Sam: The Doctor is a Trostkyiste! Trotsky: *glancing at the fire-axe embedded in his skull by Stalin's men* I have my doubts.
8:16 this sounds like something that a version of rick Sanchez that got way to in to time travel would do, like he’d just get board and start texting random people from history
12:03 I’ve seen weirder, if the master enjoys being in jail then the dragonets of destiny enjoy being taken to jail but want to escape once they’re in jail, I think, they’re like the worst written protagonists ever made because they’re only going to care to do something about your evil plan if you try to physically attack them, and they’ll avoid getting involved after that or they’ll just kill you instantly, it’s really not consistent.
I loved Girl Power not just because it was hilarious, but it was close to how I think Master as an anti-hero could work. Someone with similar goals to the Doctor who cares less about the means but is also less of a hypocrite
No joke, it's the purest example of these two out smarting one another I've seen, heard or read. They come across as equals in a way that totally reconvinces you of their long relationship. The Doctor's subterfuge and Missy's making a big statement via a fake plan is so on-point. Rayner is brilliant.
@@alexbruckshaw1448 Are we thinking of the same thing? Because I'm thinking of a box set where it's revealed after episode 2 or 3. Spoilers for that box set: The War Master Hearts of Darkness
According to the Faction Paradox novel This Town Will Never Let Us Go, George Orwell actually appeared on the Muppet Show where he did some 1984 and Animal Farm parody skits. So there's that Orwell connection, too.
Should have talked about Cousin Anastasia. She started a communist revolution within the faction that failed after she was betrayed by her ex-girlfriend. She was then sentenced to a "three-fold death" by the faction.
Quality, thought-provoking content as always, Do have to add that I loved Missy, I love The Missy Chronicles, and would like you to extend especial kudos to Alia E. Torres for her on-point Missy voice xx
Dude fucking imagine if someone made a story where Hitler asks the Doctor that same question and he goes “while some may vilify you, they will ultimately see where you’re coming from and finish your work” like holy crap the BBC would never hear the end of it
I mean technically due to the nature of the inferno earth And that version of the doctor landing in the twenties, it means it was a fascist sixties that The first doctor landed in Ready to be shaped
I sometimes feel like you’d be able to make any type of outlandish claim and facet will find a way to make it canon. For example: The Mox of Balhoon is a war criminal who has murdered several million children.
Oh, hey, reading old comments. I write summaries for the wiki for Faction Paradox, what type of novels/short stories do you usually like? There's urban horror, wuxia, a roman military novel, a murder mystery in heaven, even a smut novel.
If you can somehow get ahold of The Book of the War (or if you just don't mind using Internet Archive), that's probably your best chance at finding a good place to start.
Sam, I don't get why you called the 7th Doctor a "Trotskyite." Trotskyists hate Stalin, by definition. What the 7th Doctor said (in a novel? Short story?) marks him as a _Stalinist._
Did you ever notice that Minions and Jawas sound EXACTLY the same?!?! Think about it.. once you hear it you can't unhear it. Now my curse is your curse too. Pass it on.
God I love Faction Paradox And yeah, if you think Amy's OOC you clearly haven't seen what they did to Fitz in Interference to make him Father Kreiner. Because he was arguably more committed to the Doctor than Amy was as a companion. Also read the EDAs I'm half way through and there's some great stuff in here. Also I dare you to look at the history of the Master's First TARDIS/Lolita, it's a mess. - Stolen from Gallifrey - Broken by the Third Doctor in the UNIT stories - Stolen by Susan in the EDAs - Somehow recovered by a future Master who experimented on it - Locked in Shada - Recovered by Alice Obiefune - Taken into the Last Great Time War - Forcibly regresses the War Child Master back into the Jacobi incarnation - Brought back to Gallifrey during an earlier point of its history by the War King and experimented on - Became the Type-101 Lolita - Founded her own Gallifreyan House - Became involved in the War in Heaven - Devoured the Eleven Day Empire - Became Queen of the UK - Became President of the US - Resurrected the Osirian Horus and fought Sutekh - Killed the War King and became War Queen of the Nine Gallifreys - Finally killed by Horus
8:40 lets just accept the fact that the Doctor has *probably* met them all at some point and left a phone for them 13:33 Sooo Spiderman is in doctor who? whats the Kingpin doing in stormcage... this over the Spiderversr incident where he pulled anime into his universe?
Yeah, had a few comments on this. The joke is "how can he be a stalinist, when he's so obviously a trotsky man!?" but I flubbed the line read by the sound of it
11:37 I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers. I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just I just couldn't prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This CHICANERY? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And HE gets to be a lawyer? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you, you have to stop him!
You're just scratching the surface of Faction Paradox. There's Grandfather Paradox (The Doctor), Granddaughter Time, Lucifer. It's a crazy acid trip of a series.
@@nbumbernickel Grandfather Paradox both is and isn't the Doctor. Depending on what you consider the potentially false Grandfather in the Ancestor Cell to be
Circe was the daughter of the sun-god Helios and a Oceonid. Therefore she wouldn't of been human, so why would she remotely be interested in a human femminist whatsapp group?
That first fact has become unfortunately true in the day and age..7 predicted the Russo Ukrainian war.. also the fact that you actually got missy’s actress to join in on this video is awesome
You mean Stalinist. Trots hate Stalin but share much of their underlying ideology (a belief in party vanguardism). Not something that a communists necessarily believe in. Orwell was both a supporter of revolution and anti-tankie. Not many people know this but he tried to make the home guard into a revolutionary army based off those he saw in the Spanish civil war.
Look, I get what you were going for, but if there's one person that Trots don't like it's Stalin... ya might want to google what he did to their favourite Russian Stalinist or tankie might be more accurate than Trotskyite!
If Churchill, the man who stated that the “reds, blacks and yellow deserved their plight as it was the hand of a superior race [whites/English speakers],” the same man who killed 3 million Indians, with the opinion of “they [indians] are a beastly creature, with a beastly religion, the famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits” is allowed a favourable appearance and friendship, Stalin is far more deserving then him. Stalin actually defeated hitler, he supported liberation movements against the ilk of Churchill, yet is the one guy the doctor can’t be friends with? 7 is right. If anyone was a dictator, then it was Churchill, the man who said “I did not become the king’s first minister (very democratic) in order to preside over the liquidation of the British empire” is far worse then Stalin, maintaining the crown of brutality, made up of the bones of the Irish, one with its jewel lodged in with the blood of Indians and cloak sewn with the sinew of Africans and North American indigenous, stained with the blood of Malaysian and Australia’s indigenous population is far worse then what ever harrowing claims one can make against Stalin.
To be fair you can barely slip a cigarette paper between them. Its basically like the disagreement between the Strasserists and the Hitlerists, they were both Nazis but had ideological differences they got homicidal over.
Yeah, they do continue "his work" all wright. Living in Russia now almost as disurbing as it was during The Stalin's era. Screw this Hatcher fellow for trying to turning my favorite Doctor into a Stalin apologist. But I don't consider Seventh Stalinist to be a canon.
This might sound controversial but the Who canon needs to be reset. Like what Disney did with Legends its needs a group of people who manage the canon so it doesn't get even more out of hand like it is now. A lot of the big finish dramas and non show material needs to be controlled and de-canonised because its a mess.
Hello from Ukraine. Stalin was a good man. He was a leader of a country where people ruled it. The most democratic of the time. I did not know that Doctor Who really told the truth about it. Well okay politics aside. Can you do special edition about Russia and Soviet Union in Doctor Who? In new who it was scarsed and strange. Anyway it's interesting to listen what Doctor Who says about Russia and countries which were in USSR. The problem is Western Media paints them super wrong.
I mean, if any Doctor was going to think Stalin did nothing wrong, it'd be Seven... I mean, both are very 'ends justify the means' people. Also, the Trotskyite in me had a visceral reaction to being associated with Stalin, I'm not a Tank.
The original line reading was meant to say "How can 7 be a stalinist, when he's so obviously a trotskyite?!" But I think I flubbed it somewhat as many other commenters also got confused by it.
Thing is, Stalin was never genuine about the ends justifying the means... Because he didn't want the ends he claimed... The Reds were not genuine socialists... The government (red flag right there) they set up was not socialist beyond minor things to pay lip service to the concept. The Black's were... The Blacks set up a federation of democratic soviets where everyone was free to come in and vote on current issues, and the army made sure everyone under their protection was fed and clothed. They provided the people with the spoils of war against the Whites, and The Reds literally destroyed them for it. They tore down an entirely socialist system of governance because they were scared it would get too popular because the people within the territory were actually being taken care of and ac5ually doing the whole "to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability" thing.... Lenin nor Stalin nor Trotsky had any genuine desire in creating a society for and by the people. They saw the chance for power and took it. And to this day people take their propaganda and lies at face value... Use it as a weapon to discourage real meaningful change... By pointing at them and going "this is what communism looks like"
The Doctor: *Is friend with Stalin*
Sam: The Doctor is a Trostkyiste!
Trotsky: *glancing at the fire-axe embedded in his skull by Stalin's men* I have my doubts.
Yeah that bit was weird
8:16 this sounds like something that a version of rick Sanchez that got way to in to time travel would do, like he’d just get board and start texting random people from history
12:03 I’ve seen weirder, if the master enjoys being in jail then the dragonets of destiny enjoy being taken to jail but want to escape once they’re in jail, I think, they’re like the worst written protagonists ever made because they’re only going to care to do something about your evil plan if you try to physically attack them, and they’ll avoid getting involved after that or they’ll just kill you instantly, it’s really not consistent.
I loved Girl Power not just because it was hilarious, but it was close to how I think Master as an anti-hero could work. Someone with similar goals to the Doctor who cares less about the means but is also less of a hypocrite
No joke, it's the purest example of these two out smarting one another I've seen, heard or read. They come across as equals in a way that totally reconvinces you of their long relationship. The Doctor's subterfuge and Missy's making a big statement via a fake plan is so on-point. Rayner is brilliant.
We need a episode where the Doctor and the Master switch bodies, but the viewers don’t know they’ve been switched till the end
There's an audio where that happens and it works well
@@jellybabiesarecool4657 Thanks for the suggestion but I don’t listen to and read expanded media
@@jellybabiesarecool4657 the switching reveals from the very beginning.
@@alexbruckshaw1448 Are we thinking of the same thing? Because I'm thinking of a box set where it's revealed after episode 2 or 3. Spoilers for that box set:
The War Master Hearts of Darkness
What about a multi doctor story where the past doctor is actually a new regeneration of the master
that missy impression was really great. I almost thought michelle gomez had signed up for cameo requests or something
Or that it was clips from an audiobook.
@@darthgallifrey3588 i don't think this one got an audiobook? i can't find one
@@daiyahigashikata Probably not. I was just saying that I thought it was from an audiobook before learning it was a really good impression.
I think my brain is leaking most of its grey matter following that Faction Paradox segment
I'm so glad that you've born witness.
I especially hate how it's my favourite doctor supporting a real life dictator
The Doctor has a..... flexible.... relationship with real world war criminals.
And that’s why I prefer Tom Baker.
Churchill was worse tho
@@zoewells3160than Stalin?
@@paddypowerhughes yes
According to the Faction Paradox novel This Town Will Never Let Us Go, George Orwell actually appeared on the Muppet Show where he did some 1984 and Animal Farm parody skits. So there's that Orwell connection, too.
If I could go back in time and guess who was in the vault I would obviously go with Kevin the minion
Should have talked about Cousin Anastasia. She started a communist revolution within the faction that failed after she was betrayed by her ex-girlfriend. She was then sentenced to a "three-fold death" by the faction.
Quality, thought-provoking content as always,
Do have to add that I loved Missy, I love The Missy Chronicles, and would like you to extend especial kudos to Alia E. Torres for her on-point Missy voice xx
There are so many revolutionaries who the doctor could have understandably sympathized with, why would you go to Stalin of all people
Meanwhile the Third Doctor is friend with Mao Zedong!
@@fyraltari1889 And the alternate Third Doctor WAS a dictator.
Imagine the doctor and Sankara
@@saoirsedeltufo7436 That could make for an interesting pure historical.
Sometimes, just sometimes, it seems like the BBC needs a better vetting process in terms of writers for Doctor Who
There are SEVERAL moments here where I was ready for you to say "nah, I made that one up", even though I should know better by now
I love broke canon.
Dude fucking imagine if someone made a story where Hitler asks the Doctor that same question and he goes “while some may vilify you, they will ultimately see where you’re coming from and finish your work” like holy crap the BBC would never hear the end of it
I'm not even a Stalinist but Stalin is not equivalent to Hitler.
Steven Moffat trying to say Doctor Who doesn't belong in WWII when theres many books and audios set in WWII will never not be funny to me.
Also Missy being like Hienz Doofensmirtz and not being good at being good is.... tragically hilarious.
Maybe Seven's comment to Stalin indicates the Inferno Earth Doctor and The Emperor aren't that much out of character for the Doctor.
I mean technically due to the nature of the inferno earth And that version of the doctor landing in the twenties, it means it was a fascist sixties that The first doctor landed in Ready to be shaped
I honestly don't think all these Missy's gal pals would get along so well.
Faction paradox is the thanos of broke canon
An Ice Warrior called Gustav is the funniest shtit. I can’t get the picture of a very german sounding ice warrior out of my head
I sometimes feel like you’d be able to make any type of outlandish claim and facet will find a way to make it canon. For example: The Mox of Balhoon is a war criminal who has murdered several million children.
I’d buy that audio.
I’m officially a faction paradox member now!!!!… God they’re really letting anyone in nowadays…
Congratulations cousin!
wait until he finds out about the faction paradox porn game
Deepest lore!
What fresh heresy is this?
The what
I want to read the Faction Paradox, but I am held back by the fact that I have absolutely no idea where to start.
Oh, hey, reading old comments. I write summaries for the wiki for Faction Paradox, what type of novels/short stories do you usually like? There's urban horror, wuxia, a roman military novel, a murder mystery in heaven, even a smut novel.
If you can somehow get ahold of The Book of the War (or if you just don't mind using Internet Archive), that's probably your best chance at finding a good place to start.
Oh sam your about to feel the wrath of a million politically unhealthy Tankies.
Sam... you didn't mention to the rest of us that Stalin would be doing a voiceover for this vid as well.
Sam, I don't get why you called the 7th Doctor a "Trotskyite." Trotskyists hate Stalin, by definition. What the 7th Doctor said (in a novel? Short story?) marks him as a _Stalinist._
Damn, 7 is a Tankie
Oh no DAVIS got trapped in reality again.
I guess you could say The doctor predicted the war with Ukraine with the whole “they will continue your work” bit with Stalin
Yup, still fighting the Nazis
If 1984 is an alternate history in the whoniverse, are all of Orwell's novels? Is there a universe out there where animal farm happened?
Did you ever notice that Minions and Jawas sound EXACTLY the same?!?! Think about it.. once you hear it you can't unhear it. Now my curse is your curse too. Pass it on.
God I love Faction Paradox
And yeah, if you think Amy's OOC you clearly haven't seen what they did to Fitz in Interference to make him Father Kreiner. Because he was arguably more committed to the Doctor than Amy was as a companion.
Also read the EDAs I'm half way through and there's some great stuff in here.
Also I dare you to look at the history of the Master's First TARDIS/Lolita, it's a mess.
- Stolen from Gallifrey
- Broken by the Third Doctor in the UNIT stories
- Stolen by Susan in the EDAs
- Somehow recovered by a future Master who experimented on it
- Locked in Shada
- Recovered by Alice Obiefune
- Taken into the Last Great Time War
- Forcibly regresses the War Child Master back into the Jacobi incarnation
- Brought back to Gallifrey during an earlier point of its history by the War King and experimented on
- Became the Type-101 Lolita
- Founded her own Gallifreyan House
- Became involved in the War in Heaven
- Devoured the Eleven Day Empire
- Became Queen of the UK
- Became President of the US
- Resurrected the Osirian Horus and fought Sutekh
- Killed the War King and became War Queen of the Nine Gallifreys
- Finally killed by Horus
She's also the sister of the doctor's tardus and they're both Is part eldrich horror as well right
Yeah, that too. Lolita is part Vampire (So is the Doctor according to 'The Child That Was Taken')@@plantainsame2049
8:40
lets just accept the fact that the Doctor has *probably* met them all at some point and left a phone for them
13:33
Sooo Spiderman is in doctor who? whats the Kingpin doing in stormcage... this over the Spiderversr incident where he pulled anime into his universe?
If 7th aprove of the Stalin - I'm not sure he would necceraly fix 1984 timeline.
Er, you do know about the thing between Stalin and Trotsky, right?
Yeah, had a few comments on this. The joke is "how can he be a stalinist, when he's so obviously a trotsky man!?" but I flubbed the line read by the sound of it
Have you made a video on the council of Hitlers with a bunch of Hitlers from different universes yet?
11:37 I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers. I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just I just couldn't prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This CHICANERY? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And HE gets to be a lawyer? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you, you have to stop him!
yoooooo hatcher is fucking based!
Doubt you'll see this but what is the organ music you're playing over the faction paradox segment?
River also loves prison!
You're just scratching the surface of Faction Paradox. There's Grandfather Paradox (The Doctor), Granddaughter Time, Lucifer. It's a crazy acid trip of a series.
Grandfather Paradox isn't the Doctor, mate.
@@nbumbernickel Grandfather Paradox both is and isn't the Doctor. Depending on what you consider the potentially false Grandfather in the Ancestor Cell to be
@@theoncomingstorm7903Yeah That makes sense when you realize he's called grandfather paradox
Don't expect logic from the illogical
13:33 is that meant to be marvel’s kingpin
Circe was the daughter of the sun-god Helios and a Oceonid. Therefore she wouldn't of been human, so why would she remotely be interested in a human femminist whatsapp group?
Can you imagine if the doctor said the same thing about hitler
No.
Did the title change? I'm pretty sure it was about Missy before.
That first fact has become unfortunately true in the day and age..7 predicted the Russo Ukrainian war.. also the fact that you actually got missy’s actress to join in on this video is awesome
You mean Stalinist. Trots hate Stalin but share much of their underlying ideology (a belief in party vanguardism). Not something that a communists necessarily believe in. Orwell was both a supporter of revolution and anti-tankie. Not many people know this but he tried to make the home guard into a revolutionary army based off those he saw in the Spanish civil war.
15:03 what is faction paradox
Complicated but I think it's some type of time cult
@@plantainsame2049 I mean the series not the fictional time cult that does who knows what
@@robbycooper6787 I think it's books honestly I have no clue
There was a story at the end so bad I dropped the book. There were a few good ones at the start tho
Funny, I just made a master tribute thingie.
Shuncucker should be Micky Smith lolq
Look, I get what you were going for, but if there's one person that Trots don't like it's Stalin... ya might want to google what he did to their favourite Russian
Stalinist or tankie might be more accurate than Trotskyite!
The Faction and the Division have a lot of similarities don't they 🤔
No? The Division is for Gallifrey, the Faction are very very anti Gallifrey
@@wyrdvoraImagine them fighting Throw in the cia And i'm also a pretty sure that each version has their own doctor who
If Churchill, the man who stated that the “reds, blacks and yellow deserved their plight as it was the hand of a superior race [whites/English speakers],” the same man who killed 3 million Indians, with the opinion of “they [indians] are a beastly creature, with a beastly religion, the famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits” is allowed a favourable appearance and friendship, Stalin is far more deserving then him. Stalin actually defeated hitler, he supported liberation movements against the ilk of Churchill, yet is the one guy the doctor can’t be friends with? 7 is right. If anyone was a dictator, then it was Churchill, the man who said “I did not become the king’s first minister (very democratic) in order to preside over the liquidation of the British empire” is far worse then Stalin, maintaining the crown of brutality, made up of the bones of the Irish, one with its jewel lodged in with the blood of Indians and cloak sewn with the sinew of Africans and North American indigenous, stained with the blood of Malaysian and Australia’s indigenous population is far worse then what ever harrowing claims one can make against Stalin.
Wasn't Mary Shelley also a Faction Paradox member?
Depending on the day doctor who is a member of faction paradox, I think that's kind of their whole deal
As a fan of Stalin to some degree at least the Doctor wouldn't be a Trot, you could have said something like, 'who'd have thought it, 7 was a tankie'
To be fair you can barely slip a cigarette paper between them. Its basically like the disagreement between the Strasserists and the Hitlerists, they were both Nazis but had ideological differences they got homicidal over.
(👍🏻) for Alia Torres' Awesome!
Of course, even if Alia hadn't, you'd have gotten a (👍🏻) for finally doing a decent Faction Paradox. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Ok… but why do they need to play coy about historical figures that never appeared in Dr. Who?
Ash Sarkar 😅
Angel
Damn, even more reason 7 is the best doctor
Stalin was also a horrible person. Most historical figures are you don't become famous by being nice
The doctor should not associate with any of them
People who say missy had a character are weird. Where was this arc? We never saw it on screen, not really.
Series 10 has most of it
Were you not paying attention?
Stalin is one of the 20th Century's greatest heroes, wtf are you on about?
Calling any world leader of any time a hero should be a fucking crime
Not a single one of them has been worth their damn salt
Why does Missy have a thick Scottish accent?
Why Did the doctor at the time
@@plantainsame2049 because the actor was Scottish?
Yeah, they do continue "his work" all wright. Living in Russia now almost as disurbing as it was during The Stalin's era. Screw this Hatcher fellow for trying to turning my favorite Doctor into a Stalin apologist. But I don't consider Seventh Stalinist to be a canon.
This might sound controversial but the Who canon needs to be reset. Like what Disney did with Legends its needs a group of people who manage the canon so it doesn't get even more out of hand like it is now. A lot of the big finish dramas and non show material needs to be controlled and de-canonised because its a mess.
Nah, I like DW as messy as it is. We don't need any more bland, boring, clean-cut Marvel style franchises
@@Charon.1 I'm not saying an MCU like franchise, i mean just cleaning the canon up and taking out the ridicules stories that contradict the main show.
Hello from Ukraine. Stalin was a good man. He was a leader of a country where people ruled it. The most democratic of the time. I did not know that Doctor Who really told the truth about it.
Well okay politics aside. Can you do special edition about Russia and Soviet Union in Doctor Who? In new who it was scarsed and strange. Anyway it's interesting to listen what Doctor Who says about Russia and countries which were in USSR. The problem is Western Media paints them super wrong.
I mean, if any Doctor was going to think Stalin did nothing wrong, it'd be Seven... I mean, both are very 'ends justify the means' people.
Also, the Trotskyite in me had a visceral reaction to being associated with Stalin, I'm not a Tank.
The original line reading was meant to say "How can 7 be a stalinist, when he's so obviously a trotskyite?!"
But I think I flubbed it somewhat as many other commenters also got confused by it.
@@SamyulDavis fair enough 💖
Thing is, Stalin was never genuine about the ends justifying the means... Because he didn't want the ends he claimed... The Reds were not genuine socialists... The government (red flag right there) they set up was not socialist beyond minor things to pay lip service to the concept. The Black's were...
The Blacks set up a federation of democratic soviets where everyone was free to come in and vote on current issues, and the army made sure everyone under their protection was fed and clothed. They provided the people with the spoils of war against the Whites, and The Reds literally destroyed them for it. They tore down an entirely socialist system of governance because they were scared it would get too popular because the people within the territory were actually being taken care of and ac5ually doing the whole "to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability" thing....
Lenin nor Stalin nor Trotsky had any genuine desire in creating a society for and by the people. They saw the chance for power and took it. And to this day people take their propaganda and lies at face value... Use it as a weapon to discourage real meaningful change... By pointing at them and going "this is what communism looks like"