Some parents be like that they swear no matter what you do they had it harder and had to do that as a kid and while starving or some extra ish it’s never enough 😂
@DavidKinner that is true but because gohan is half human he will most likely go back to being a loving father and taking care of his family and going to work and whst not. Of course when there is a threat he will do some quick training and do his best to deal with the problem.
@@mark7243669 He should be going in the hyperbolic Time chamber for a few hours here and there again so he can squeeze some training in between his schedule doing that. Something that makes him find more balance to the things he wants at the same time.
No he lost just like if your dad decided to step out of the ring before your a** was on the map he lost a loss is a loss no matter what you people try to describe it as the fact of the matter is that he did not beat gohan that day
@@koolaidman82509no it wasn’t a loss it was a lesson. Y’all see L and immediately think it means a loss. It doesn’t always mean that. In this case it was a lesson
Goku’s plan the whole time was for Gohan to be Earth’s protector. Goku likes the thrill of battle, he would rather jump galaxies looking for strong opponents but don’t want to leave his family unprotected.
@@cipherP9 Goku knew Gohan was the only one that could beat Cell. That's all that was. He even promised Chi-Chi that Gohan wouldn't ever have to train/fight again.(which was the case for 7 years after Cell)
@@deckzone3000 Gohan was the only one stronger than Cell but Goku equaled his strength. Goku could have won that fight but turned it over to Gohan to bring out his true nature. As for the 7 years, Gohan is obviously trying to please both his parents, be a warrior for his dad and scholar for his mother, no fights he’s in the books but he was there for all the battles, the androids, Cell, Buu, both Frieza returns, TOP.
@@deckzone3000actually, the story was supposed to end off with Goku traveling to the afterlife and Gohan taking over. Since people didn’t like that ending, toriyama continued it. I think even to this day that Goku still planned to have Gohan surpass him. He might or might’ve not planned that but that was toriyama’s plan.
Yeah the thing is goku is a horrible father lol he doesn’t want to help anyone improve that’s not this character he just wants to fight tough opponents
@@LimitedEyethat’s factually wrong. Goku has trained many people with the intent to have them improve. DBS goku just makes him look more like a power hungry idiot.
@@LimitedEyeMy friend I think you’re feeding into the Goku is a bad father trope and you’ve possibly forgotten the few times Goku has put his life on the line for Gohan.
People don't forget, its the writers that make us not care because Gohan is written so poorly that we just couldn't care less about how powerful Gohan is since he's written so badly now
The best part about it is, before this fight started Gohan stated hes back in the fighting game. He’s not going to lack in his training anymore and knows that if he depends on goku and vegeta something might happen and Gohan doesn’t want to be the reason earth gets destroyed if the chance is they aren’t there. Superhero gave us that opportunity for Gohan to step into the light and I LOVE IT
Crazt part is people hate on his new form bc they saying it came out of nowhere and that’s it’s a rage boost and just refuse to realize he’s been training
Not that only it's beast Form every Sayan curious combat against beast Form. Sayan nature is they're warrier race so fight is there nature. Gohan is not interested fight still some time he also proved this crazy nature.
Yup, he was gauging his power. I love Gohan but I don’t think he’d win in a fight to the death I feel goku would win out of desperation like he tends to. Gohan would only push himself hard enough if like pan or video died
That called mad biased and infinite plot armor, I don't like such character , future trunks and goten deserve his respect, he shouldn't be the only special one treatment
Ui is a state of mind. Him being hit harder than he expected while analyzing and understanding the beast transformation makes sense why he got out of the form.
No it doesn't, jiren was hitting him way harder and without holding back and he never go out from UI/MUI, stop inventing bullshit db super unfortunally is just shit accept it
@ first off you getting too hostile over nothing and this conversation isn’t changing anything. And yes dbs has flaws I don’t think it’s perfect. Secondly goku was in ui in ToP instinctively by getting beat the f up like a boxer getting in the zone except he got beat up by his own spirit bomb. Here he’s intentionally entering it which is harder. Third he is splitting his focus on maintaining ui but also gauging gohan’s strength. So yea he got distracted by getting hit harder than expected emphasis on expected. This is all obvious head cannon I never stated it’s actual cannon and if your still mad that’s you’re problem.
@@ciaoatutti307 actually goku and vegeta both confirm jiren is about ssj blue level of strength but he has mastered the use of his ki to a point it made him a monster beast is far beyond blue in physical stats which bypasses gokus UI reaction
The fight wouldve went different if goku was fighting for life if that was the case goku would win for sure but as a sparing match to gauge powers thats it
@@sebgor2319 I still don't think gohan would win to be honest, gohan doesn't have the edge over goku even with beast mode because goku is not only stronger but he has a higher skill set and also tonnes more experience, I believe gohan has more potential to become stronger than goku but until goku is fully dead and gone like at the end of gt gohan wouldnt be able to surpass him especially now that frieza has that black form goku will have to achieve greater power to now defeat him
Gohan doesn't hold back you can tell when he fought Goku back dbz and dbs he wants his dad to give it his all like he's trying to kill him it's only Goku who holds back
while it was a sparring match, gohan probably look at this oppotunity to show goku that he has came a long way while goku was testing gohan of his power. gohan for sure took it way more seriously then goku.
@@ZarkionUltimateTUI isn't even stronger than MUI. It's just that it's more sustainable and gokus mind during the Gas fight wasn't clear and his heartwasnt calm, he states that so he needed to take a step back. When his heart is actually calm his accuracy is much better as told to us by Whis UI has accuracies
@@kaiteido9963 Prob would be similar situation as when both trained just one year in the Time Chamber. A lot of people talk about just raw power don't remember Gohan is quite smart, that's a big advantage too when training.
A draw was the best conclusion for the fight cuz if goku won, gohan fans would be angry and if gohan won, goku fans would be furious and I’m happy it was a draw
@Danny___Riot thats true, neither of them won...only because Goku threw in the towel because the Raging Beast was all up in da a** lol After Goku tried to sick Broly on Gohan and Broly got wrecked too 😆
This is probably the best way to handle it, but Goku still edges out Gohan. And it goes back to the Cell Saga. In Goku’s words slightly paraphrased, what’s the use of strength if you can’t hit your opponent?
People forget that Goku doesnt go full power unless he has to, he matches power with his opponent to figure out how they fight, and then increases the power and uses his new knowledge to defeat them
@@baronbarton9479 as in best form. goku never went 100 on a fight or training, like whis said going all out is a fight, not training. goku was obv seeing his new form, why would he go out and he look hardly hurt
@@JussDraftfr this is just to downplay gohan lmao gohan clearly has way more raw speed and power lmao even with that excuse gohan form if not controled maked him cocky so and go out of control, his form is far newer than ui and is superior in strenght and speed
I think a big thing about how the fight played out was the visual storytelling: Goku being visibly more calm and stoic in his expression mid-spar while Gohan's face was an angry scowl. Which imo pushes people more to side of Goku not trying as hard while Gohan was, even though that is moreso based off the nature of their transformations, with Goku needing pure serenity of mind and body to allow his body to move without thinking like an angel while Gohan's is literally based on bestial fury and emotion - naturally Gohan will be more expressive in a fight and Goku vice-versa. It's also a point there that Beast mode is a very new transformation for Gohan especially compared to Goku's mastered UI. So Gohan being more winded near the end is a result of that and also an added tie-in for Goku to Gohan's connection to Broly as a perfect sparring partner, since that was Broly's entire reason for training - to master his own new Super Saiyan transformation and acclimate to it to bring out the potential of the form without the drawbacks. The fact that Gohan has already reached the level of a MUI Goku with this new form (and obviously not going all-out either; dude isn't death matching his father, let's be real) is wild and, like Broly, speaks to the well of potential still inside. *Though I think there is still the possibility of this Beast mode being Gohan's pseudo-equivalent of SSB in theory, with it being his hybrid Super Saiyan rage mixing with Kaioshin magic from the Elder Kai that unlocked his ultimate form to bring out a new grand power. Which would also complete the parallel between the four primary Saiyans in the story to the different cosmic being aspects - Goku's angelic Ultra Instinct, Vegeta's hakaishin Ultra Ego, Gohan's kaioshin Beast mode, and Broly's pure mortal freakish potential that is legend in and of itself.
My theory is that Gohan and Broly are both a particular type of Sayian. Both, when emotionally out of control, make massive gains in power. Gohan is just a civilized Broly. Like he said in the fight. "I pushed myself until I felt like I would snap. Then I reigned it in and took control of the power." Was he about to go bezerker Sayian?
I really like this comment. And yeah, in all honesty Goku wasn't taking the fight seriously so there's 0 reason to believe he was weaker imo. Still Gohan, as usual, has a lot of potential to surpass Goku. Really makes me wonder how much longer they can keep up the story of Dragon Ball with such strong characters
It’s easy to tell when Goku wants to win. It’s in how he fights. His stance, his guard, how aggressive he gets. He was so chill here he never intended to win.
Every father wants their child to surpass them. But every father knows their child’s limits as well. Goku knew that “alright this is the most Gohan can do for now, it’s a lot but still” because Goku had a whole lot extra left in the tank and knew he would eventually overtake his son which doing that isn’t his goal in sparring with his son.
glaze, he wasnt holding back he used MUI, Gohan has more in the tank and MUI takes a great toll on his body in the fight against Jiren it was proven. Gohan litteraly punched MUI out his body lol 💀
ui is a form where you're body moves on it's own so it's almost impossible to hold back because you always go out the only way to hold back it to use tui
No, they're saying if you're getting knocked out of your strongest form...with only a Edge of power by Gohan holding back an not going full snap mode it's clear Gohan is stronger.
I got to say that he went near to full power because gohan stated that he went just enough to the point where he would not snap. That shows that he could even go to step further, if he were to snap and go rage mode like he did with cell
@@realizedpotential6640yup that’s what got me excited not just for Gohan but for Broly because that’s obviously what Broly did as well. How deep does the power go when they snap
Well in Z season one Gohan went from a power level of five to 1,307. In an instant. In fact when he snaps her usually becomes at least as strong as the person he's fighting or very close. Don't forget he was throwing hands with Vegeta at 5yrs old.
Goku is never one to lie about an opponent being stronger than him. If he were likely to lose, he would’ve flat out admitted it especially if that opponent was his son. He is open about how impressed he gets and he would’ve used it to hype his son up.
I would say Gohan is more or less equal to Goku, but as Gohan stated, he's still learning to fulling control Beast without losing himself to the power. We saw it in the movie how for a brief moment, his arrogance was about to take him over with that trademark smirk as when Gohan's power reaches a certain point, his Saiyan instincts fully take over. As Vegeta also pointed out, Goku just has more experience in his UI than Gohan does with Beast but even with that small amount of control, he's able to toy with Broly, keep Vegeta at bay and bypass Goku's UI. Once Gohan fully masters his Beast Form at its critical limit, he'll more than likely be stronger than Vegeta and Goku, but roughly on part with LSSj Broly. So yes, Goku held back in the sense that he wasn't looking to win. He wasn't trying to defeat Gohan but test his limits. Once he saw what Gohan could do and that Gohan was getting stronger than him, along with Broly's curiosity, he stopped. If the fight kept going, I say it would be a coin toss on who would win. Goku's endurance could tap out but the strain Gohan was still getting accustomed to could also net him a loss. Either way, i'm satisfied because now I have a good idea where Gohan sits in terms of his scaling. He's roughly equal, maybe a little stronger, but just requires more experience and control.
@@tylerbush7047 Nah there's always a pattern to this when you watch Dragonball. When Goku first awakened to Super Saiyan, despite being enraged, he became really cruel and sadistic, straight up resorting to insults and even going as far as to let Frieza live, not because Goku forgave him, but because he thought it would be a more insulting victory letting Frieza live with his failure and fear of the Saiyans. When Vegeta first awakens, the tosses out his crafted, intellectual methodology he showed on Namek, fighting carefully and using carefully planned tactics. Instead he barreled into every battle he came across, thinking he was invincible as a Super Saiyan. This arrogance was made even worse when he reached 1st Grade, causing him to toy with Cell when he could have won in the first couple of minutes and assuming he was so utterly powerful, that even if Cell reached his Perfect Form, he would still be stronger. We see it again with Gohan twice. 1st time was with Perfect Cell when he hit Super Saiyan 2. He became so sadistic, vengeful and vindictive that he toyed with Cell, all the way up until Goku's death. Then we see it again against Super Buu where he could have killed Buu at any time, but spent the entire time messing around and picking him apart, all because he believed himself to be superior with a hint of him wanting revenge for Chi-Chi and Videl's deaths. Whenever a Saiyan who hasn't done proper mental training reaches a new level of power, their level of pride and arrogance takes over. They start thinking themselves so superior that nothing can hurt them, and would rather give into the pleasure of causing pain instead of winning right away. This is something I loved about original Z Broly as, once his LSSj form was unlocked, bro showed the same level of sadistic cruelty as any other Saiyan, pumped up to 11. This is also shown with Vegeta's Ultra Ego form as, the longer the battle goes on, the more savage he becomes. Saiyans love to fight and the extreme high of battle and power causes them to toss reason and common sense out the window.
@@Netherwolf6100 I think this is only partly true. It is true that untrained SSJ1 and SSJ2 tend to bring out the battle lusting sadistic side to Saiyans. But also in Goku's case with Frieza and Gohan's case with Cell there was a very personal aspect in reaching that transformation. IIRC Kid Goku was similarly vindictive with King Piccolo but was also on the losing side unlike the former two. With Vegeta the first fight he uses SSJ in which was vs 19 he actually is still fighting strategically which is directly described by Piccolo; he beats 19 into a corner, deliberately gets grabbed to confirm the absorption ability, finishes the fight once he has, and then powers down into a successful bluff. All of that is as calculated as one would expect of him him prior and it's most likely that fight that boosts his ego going into 18. There's a case to be made that even without transformations Saiyans also make these same irrational decisions. Goku arguably could have simply used the Kaio Ken immediately vs Nappa but still fought out the fight without it despite the virtually instant win it gave him later. And in Gohan's case Ultimate wasn't even a Saiyan transformation (granted I think it working as it does is just weird but that's a different topic). So I'd argue there's more of an intersection of things that happens rather than just a raw pattern.
@@kevenfinley2809 Not entirely sure since translations are different depending on the source. I know Gohan said he currently hasn't mastered it fully since he tells Goku that "This is all I can do, for now." implying there's more to the power he hasn't tapped into just yet, without going Berserk.
At the end of the day, Goku knows that Gohan has more room for an increase in power. Plus, it’s well known that hybrid Saiyans have more potential than pure Saiyans
That been died down, just like the whole zenKai boost thing. Or else you would have trunks and goten just as strong and talented and they aren’t. A long time ago they said that the only reason goten and (current)trunks got ssj easy is becuase goku and vegeta had already been ssj before their birth, some how unlocking it for them. But that’s just bad writing becuase trunks was born before vegeta went ssj. Realistically db has evolved past that whole hybrids and gohan the strongest thing a long time ago.
I don't think goku would call off a match, sparring or not, if he knew he was going to lose. That's not who he is, I think it was more like the two times he sparred with trunks where it was more of just testing the others strength
Sure it is. Goku doesn't mind losing. It's not about winning and losing to Goku. That was the whole point of Roshi beating him in his first world tournament. That's what makes him different from Vegeta.
@gsmith8403 That's the only time he ever did it though and he had an actual reason for it. He would have no reason to quit this fight just because he knows he'd lose
@@gsmith8403He didn't just quit against cell because he didn't think he could win. Goku (Ironically just like this sparring match) never planned on beating cell in the first place . His entire plan was to fight Cell first to give Gohan a chance to observe cells techniques amd measure his power and then pass the torch to Gohan who would then beat him and become earths protector.
Any other form i would believe that. But holding back defeats the purpose of UI, because the entire point is moving without thinking which sort of implies Goku isn't the one making the decisions of what to do when.
@@SephirothXValentine even in the the tournament of power he was holding back, up until Jiren tried to kill his team. That’s when he went head on, as you say
@@SephirothXValentine He liteally did it in the manga wdym, man was in UI an still was holding back until he closed his eyes and went into Demon 0 emotions man not even any reactions which u can see now
@@shadoow411UI, MUI, TUI is an form which should be used well. Even in the T.O.P whis said that if Goku used any emotions to amplify his strength the form would eventually wear off,. These form are consdered as the Strongest forms even Gods of Destructions trying to achieve but lacks the emotion. Angels which lacks condense emotions like others can weild these Forms easily. Goku did the same, he didnt cared about the Tournament, he didn't cared about the line of their livesis in theor hands, he just focused on his opponent, and him alone. Thats how these forms should be used.
@@S0L0Zno true ultra instinct has his sayian ecessents in it that allows to use more anger but he only used mui so goku did not go full power which would be True Ultra Instinct
Goku’s real talent has always been his adaptability which led to him attaining UI, more so than ‘latent power’ like Broly and Gohan. So unless his opponent’s level is above his by a significant margin, in a serious drawn out fight he most likely wins.
Another thing to point out, Goku was caught off guard by Gohan's speed. And also by the end Gohan was visibly panting and had used quite a bit of energy, whereas Goku walked away without breaking a sweat. Goku at full power is still ahead, by how much? No one knows, because this man is always fucking holding back. Edit: damn I've started a war
@@Hardracist Caught of guard ment if he was ready then it would not play out that way. That not what happened, it not something that can be done to tui as the person doesn't need to be aware.
People with Ultra Instinct can't be off guard the technique is to let your body move on it's own by instinct alone even if that person is blind of what ever this technique would make your body dodge as long as they are in that state the only way to hit someone with UI is that they are fast enough to by past it which Gohan manage to do
These guys are the strongest at the most desperate situations, or when they are the angriest. They NEVER showed their full power, not even against enemies until it was absolutely necessary. And definitely not in a sparring. So it was always obvious to me, that neither of them were really all out here.
Akira Toriyama already stated before his passing that beast Gohan is the strongest at the moment. I am sure that will change in the future. Gohan doesn't take his training seriously.
You kids are so disrespectful, you ride gohan so hard you think it's OK to make up your own statements and say that a dead guy said them, have a little respect, this man literally created dragonball, stop going around spreading lies saying toriyama said this and toriyama said that when there is literally no statements made from him saying such things.
@@mystery2877 he did say that tho, but only in the movie where gohan went beast mode against cell max, there he was the strongest out of the z fighters, that quickly changed tho
@stanciu7211 you misunderstood what toriyama said, the ACTUAL statement toriyama said was " gohan is stronger than anyone OR SO IT IS SAID, then went on to say gohan hasn't really had his turn to shine in a long time, but toriyama did say "gohan is stronger than anyone OR SO IT IS SAID" the words "or so it is said" is in no means what's so ever CONFIRMATION that gohan is the strongest, that's actually the complete opposite, what is being said there is that it is only SAID that gohan is the strongest and piccolo was the only person who mattered to say this but piccolo hasn't even seen goku or vegeta since the Moro arc so he has no clue on where current goku and vegeta stand so piccolo's assumption is nothing.
@mystery2877 bro, he said Gohan is the strongest at the moment. That was also proven in manga. Calm down. Everyone knows that's temporary. I swear y'all Goku fans want every W. 😂😂
@Ghost251_pa toriyama did not say that, and it was not proven in the manga at all, ch. 103 was CLEARLY in favor of goku, beast gohan and mui goku went toe to toe for the longest time, gohan beast leveled up twice while mui stayed the same and still continued to go toe to toe with beast, gohan said it himself that he was at his absolute max, that was clearly stated in the manga, goku never once said he was at his max, then towards the end of the battle after they were both going toe to toe goku using ONLY HIS KI managed to push a fully maxed out beast gohan back, that's basically just wind in a sense because it was only gokus ki, this literally proved to everyone that goku was hiding energy within him and hadn't let it all out yet which literally means goku was not at his max, so the fact that only gokus ki pushed gohan back proves that goku is still much stronger than gohan and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, just because goku called the fight does not mean he lost the fight, goku literally stated that " its not about who wins or loses its about testing his strength" that's all goku was doing is TESTING gohans strength to make sure that if him or vegeta aren't on earth that gohan can protect the earth. That's LITTERALLY how ch. 103 of the manga was played out, there is literally no other way to view that chapter as that was the literal plot to the chapter is testing gohans strength to see if he can protect earth. Also I'm not a goku fan I am a DragonBall fan, I love all things dragonball which makes my view more liable than yours because your only a gohan fan and ride him so hard you pick pieces out of the chapter and ignore the rest, every gohan fanboy does that.
Goku literally ended the fight with a simple kiai. Not only that after he was "knocked out of Ui" he was just standing their staring at the sky contemplating gohans form without a care in the world. Then just ignites the form again
While this obviously does not count as Goku losing a fight, its pretty clear that Gohan has more raw power. The reflexes of Ultra Instinct are supposed to be perfect, yet despite that Gohan surpassed it with just pure power.
@@HKxSlashbang47 He was training for the longest time to specifically master UI properly. The fact he went MUI just for practice would make perfect sense. Considering MUI technically isn't his strongest form he still has TUI
@@RenRinnega TUI is a form he gets in the manga after perfecting UI and coming to terms with some back story(I’ll avoid saying spoilers) it allows him to use UI whilst still being in full control of his emotions. Before hand he was limited to forcing himself to stay calm in order to use it but TUI is basically UI without him holding his emotions back. So you know how Goku basically gets significantly stronger when he gets mad and yells. TUI means he can do that with UI now
@@jeremymorris345it was stated that he increased his power to a level that he could control. He did not want to snap. Proving he wasn't using max beast form power
@scarecloud2741 Every fight he's ever been in? He was going to quit the tournament against Hit because they couldn't fight at full strength, and then he hired Hit to assassinate himself so he could fight at full power and Hit killed him.
Are you an idiot ? Have you even watched DB ? Goku always ALWAYS holds back. What a dumb comment. Just 1 example...when Goku fought good guy Zamasu he told him not to hold back when GOKU HIMSELF HELD BACK.
@@KorrinBeckBro, Gas literally asks why he doesn’t go into silver haired UI during that fight since it indicates max power, and Goku tells him that in order for it to work with max efficiency, his heart needs to be CALM, but with TUI he can put his EMOTIONS to work for him. Beerus even asks Whis during the sparring match if Goku was in his most powerful form, and Whis confirms. Calm MUI > TUI > Wavering MUI > UI Omen.
@@m.d_james7736 "Bro", again, learn to read. You're already one of those that makes up names for levels so your credibility is already low. Go back and read where Whis explains the benefits of a person using personal version of Mastered UI. He literally says it's the next step and also literally learns it *during* the Granolah fight, months before where we are in the manga. Don't be like the average DB fan that has to breathe through your mouth and can't read at a middle school level.
Both are at the same level, Gohan Beast and MUI Goku. In terms of strength and power Gohan has the edge, but techniques and consistent speed advantage goes to Goku. It's incredibe how strong Gohan got to match and somewhat surpass Ultra Instinct.
It’s a sparring match so both Goku and Gohan didn’t go all out but it can be clearly seen that Gohan put way more effort into the fight while Goku constantly raised his power level for Gohan to surpass him
This is a dumb take, Goku knew what he sensed from Gohan that's why he jumped right into UI. If Goku were holding back, then Gohan wouldn't have knocked him out of UI...
goku never goes full power on sparring, he wouldn't risk big damage even if it could be restored just for that, he knew if the fight got progressively harder that wouldn't end well for both. gohan wasn't loosing either, he fought broly and vegeta after, goku was just done seeing how gohan new power works
ui is a form where you're body moves on it's own so it's almost impossible to hold back . I took this quote from someone else and it makes perfect sense to me
@@DevilHugoRFhe probably means before gogeta went ssb, if you watch closely the two were evenly matched in super saiyain, with gogeta pulling ahead through skill
@@DevilHugoRF SSJ Gogeta and SSJ Broly were equally matched, it didn't last long however due to Gogeta's Experience and skill in combat, Broly shortly after leveled the playing field with his full power which forced gogeta to fight fire with fire by going blue
getting KNOCKED out of your transformation speaks for itself, if not for sparring losing your concentration in the heat of battle has proven to be fatal in times that being said you could make an argument both father and son werent going all out
Ultra Instinct isn't about thinking, the opposite actually. If Gohan landed a hit while Goku was in Ultra Instinct I would count that as a "Win" even though it wouldn't mean he would win a fight necessarily.
You forgot that at one point. UI Goku, Vegeta, AND Broly all ganged up on Beast Gohan because they couldn't wait to test their strength against him and Gohan still held his own.
blud they all fought against each other not against gohan plus gohan was getting overwhelmed by ssj 1 broly who's a little above ssj blue level vegeta fought him in ssj blue evolution which is much weaker than ui, it's clear that mui is stronger than beast gohan cause he was casually fighting gohan without even looking at him he flicked him and then proceeded to tell him to spar with broly without breaking a sweat
I think the creator of dragon ball always intended for gohan to take the place as the main character of the show and by the end before he died stated that gohan was now the strongest of the z-fighters. So he at least put gohan where he wanted him before he passed away. Anyone who says different is just one of the goku simps that are the reason gohan never took over as the mc in the first place.
He was definitely holding back because Goku noticed Broly was observing the fight VERY keenly while in the middle of fighting Gohan. That said I do think by the end Goku was likely around 70%-80% of his power against Gohan. I think with more training as Gohan really taps into his new heights there's a VERY solid chance he taps into the full power of Beast. I personally think Beast like SSJ has different forms of mastery, and Gohan only unlocked the first form, probably of three. So Gohan will eventually unlock Grade 2 which is merely a speed bump, power bump, more efficient usage bump whilst Grade 3 will likely have a new aura altogether, complete mastery of ones own potential. If Gohan reached his fullest potential then I strongly believe he would rival that of MUI and Goku's own variant of Sign, Vegeta's Ultra Ego and Broly's fully unlocked SSJ.
Imagine it becomes a special thing about beast is that it can knock someone out of their transformation temporarily especially if Frieza has trained his black form to where he can stay in it having someone who can blitz and knock him out of it for a sec would be a great asset and way to use Gohan but I doubt he'll get any actual fights against anyone major soon
It’s just doesnt feel great when goku was the one training throughout the entirety of Dbs and then Gohan suddenly catches up in a single movie. That’s a shit ton of bs from dbs
This sparring match is kind of like a call back to when Goku and Gohan were in the hyperbolic time chamber before the Cell Games. Goku knows he's about to get surpassed by Gohan once again. It happened a second time before this as well when Goku and Gohan were on the Supreme Kai's planet and Gohan had just unlocked his Mystic power up
People forget that Gohan was actually kind of the same level as blue Goku after a few serious training sessions with Piccolo before the TOP, and during the TOP he fought off a Kefla that in the anime needed a Omen UI Goku to beat.
I always think it's worth mentioning, but this also happens AFTER the Granolah ark. At which point Goku is developing a new form of UI that allows him to be more combative than he can with the original white-haired UI. A change which, as far as we know, means he can't use White-haired UI with his new style. Which makes this more like him using ssjb by the end of the More arc in that he logically has a "stronger" form he could go into instead.
Goku wasn't even using his strongest form. Also just look at goku facial expressions and how he attacks. He clearly isn't trying to win which he even states. He's fighting passively because he wants to see gohan full potential. If goku fought at full power, he would beat the brakes off gohan before gohan could do anything defeating the entire point. This entire sparing match was just goku toying with gohan.
all that pent up anger within gohan back in the cell game was finally coming out of him if only he metion "remember the time you gave cell the senzu bean?" then shows the picture of gohan punching goku out of ultra instinct lol XD
Gohan is superior just by the fact of the amount of time it took him to get there alone. But he is not maxing out. He is getting to the max that he can control without going beserk. Meaning we have not seen Gohans max.. he will push it further and further of course. This was his current max at that second.. and who knows, he likely put it to the place he felt he needed to get past UI. UI could not keep up with it. Therefore Goku was at his limit at that moment. UI essentially utilises the full 'body' of the user to avoid anything.. if he cant avoid, it means the other person is above them in that moment. If he was holding back then he would have kept dodging. Simple as that.
remember the quote "the father is the only man that wants you to do better than him"
good quote.
doesn't apply to me but it's still a good quote.
I will keep it just in case I have a son
Wellp. My father is the opposite 😅
Wellp. My father is the opposite 😅
Vegeta wanted that too... he's not gohans dad.
Some parents be like that they swear no matter what you do they had it harder and had to do that as a kid and while starving or some extra ish it’s never enough 😂
Prople forget, Goku wants Gohan to be the one that Surpasses him in the End
this
If Gohan seriously trains from now on, there is no reason at all why he wouldn't, and stay ahead. Whether people like it or not.
@DavidKinner that is true but because gohan is half human he will most likely go back to being a loving father and taking care of his family and going to work and whst not. Of course when there is a threat he will do some quick training and do his best to deal with the problem.
Used to be. But then they realized that was dumb.
@@mark7243669
He should be going in the hyperbolic Time chamber for a few hours here and there again so he can squeeze some training in between his schedule doing that. Something that makes him find more balance to the things he wants at the same time.
Love how Gohan's best form is just him as an adult height teen Gohan.
😅😅🤦🏾♂️
He got compressed
I mean that was his peak look in all honestly
had to bring him back to his prime
Literal Super saiyan 2 reboot😭
Ain't no winning or losing, Goku just being a good father and showing interest in his son's progression, my dad did the same with me and kickboxing
No he lost just like if your dad decided to step out of the ring before your a** was on the map he lost a loss is a loss no matter what you people try to describe it as the fact of the matter is that he did not beat gohan that day
Must be nice. 😅
yeah goku loss but not beaten@@koolaidman82509
@@koolaidman82509 Nobody said he beat Gohan bro
@@koolaidman82509no it wasn’t a loss it was a lesson. Y’all see L and immediately think it means a loss. It doesn’t always mean that. In this case it was a lesson
It’s just insane how Toriyama gave us the chapter with all the Saiyans fighting to send him off 🙌 🕊️
Honestly. Now that’s a way to go out.
Pin this comment
If he made a Gogeta vs Brohan for that last chapter it would've been crazy
He did NOT write this crap. Never did.
Facts !
Goku’s plan the whole time was for Gohan to be Earth’s protector. Goku likes the thrill of battle, he would rather jump galaxies looking for strong opponents but don’t want to leave his family unprotected.
When was that ever Goku's plan?
@@deckzone3000 When he decided Gohan would defeat Cell which made him realize his potential.
@@cipherP9 Goku knew Gohan was the only one that could beat Cell. That's all that was. He even promised Chi-Chi that Gohan wouldn't ever have to train/fight again.(which was the case for 7 years after Cell)
@@deckzone3000 Gohan was the only one stronger than Cell but Goku equaled his strength. Goku could have won that fight but turned it over to Gohan to bring out his true nature. As for the 7 years, Gohan is obviously trying to please both his parents, be a warrior for his dad and scholar for his mother, no fights he’s in the books but he was there for all the battles, the androids, Cell, Buu, both Frieza returns, TOP.
@@deckzone3000actually, the story was supposed to end off with Goku traveling to the afterlife and Gohan taking over. Since people didn’t like that ending, toriyama continued it. I think even to this day that Goku still planned to have Gohan surpass him. He might or might’ve not planned that but that was toriyama’s plan.
he just wants to witness his son’s strengths and weaknesses and help him improve like any good father would
Yeah the thing is goku is a horrible father lol he doesn’t want to help anyone improve that’s not this character he just wants to fight tough opponents
@@LimitedEyethat’s factually wrong. Goku has trained many people with the intent to have them improve. DBS goku just makes him look more like a power hungry idiot.
@@LimitedEyeMy friend I think you’re feeding into the Goku is a bad father trope and you’ve possibly forgotten the few times Goku has put his life on the line for Gohan.
@@adrianblake-williams5294yea Goku put his life on the line for gohan a lot, but goten that’s another story lmaoo😂
Goku is anything but a good father... But I hear you.
Just a friendly sparring match between father and son, no winners, no losers
Even tho it might take 3 decades I still can’t wait for this to be animated
way too pessimistic... it's dragonball
Optimistic *
lol
U know right can't wait to watch it with my grandchildren 😂😂😂
Do they plan on animating anything past the tournament of power?
"I'm going to surpass you dad!"
*"B R I N G I T O N! G O H A N !'*
I understood the reference LOL
That one game where goku accidentally let his inner demons out and sounded like a error sans voice changer
bro any one with mastered ultra instinct should have that voice like image whis doing that shit and scarring the shit out of beerus
When it happened to me i was genuenly scared
@@Timeskipper_Jeremiahxenoverse 2
Goku WANTS Gohan to be the one to take over once he’s done. People forget this.
People don't forget, its the writers that make us not care because Gohan is written so poorly that we just couldn't care less about how powerful Gohan is since he's written so badly now
Gohan will be the next
@@Crustylips598not the point
@@Crustylips598Silence, you bum
@@Crustylips598No he's not, goku is way worse written, just admit you don't want to let go of goku meatriding😂
The best part about it is, before this fight started Gohan stated hes back in the fighting game. He’s not going to lack in his training anymore and knows that if he depends on goku and vegeta something might happen and Gohan doesn’t want to be the reason earth gets destroyed if the chance is they aren’t there. Superhero gave us that opportunity for Gohan to step into the light and I LOVE IT
Crazt part is people hate on his new form bc they saying it came out of nowhere and that’s it’s a rage boost and just refuse to realize he’s been training
Gohan had more raw power but Goku was more skilled
Exactly
🎯
I wouldn’t say that really ultra instinct has crazy power and if he was fighting like he did against moro it would have been different
@@malikthomas8452not so sure.
@@koltensmith3974 it’s hard to tell when goku is holding back and ui gets stronger as he adapts and his body hardens
this was a father and son bonding moment, a dad wanting to see how strong his son has gotten
Not that only it's beast Form every Sayan curious combat against beast Form.
Sayan nature is they're warrier race so fight is there nature.
Gohan is not interested fight still some time he also proved this crazy nature.
Yup, he was gauging his power. I love Gohan but I don’t think he’d win in a fight to the death I feel goku would win out of desperation like he tends to. Gohan would only push himself hard enough if like pan or video died
Speaking of goten 😭
@@tobyjo4204 "video" 💀
@tobyjo4204 no🙏
It’s still impressive when you consider how little Gohan trains. Dude has mad potential
Wait A min. What are you doing here MK man😅😅😅 or should I say fighting game man. I love your vids
Right?! If Gohan trained as much as Goku, he’d be the strongest.
well of course Gohan has a strategic mindset
That called mad biased and infinite plot armor, I don't like such character , future trunks and goten deserve his respect, he shouldn't be the only special one treatment
@@gurjas9308 its not bias gohan is build different, its why he has the most potential .
Ui is a state of mind. Him being hit harder than he expected while analyzing and understanding the beast transformation makes sense why he got out of the form.
No it doesn't, jiren was hitting him way harder and without holding back and he never go out from UI/MUI, stop inventing bullshit db super unfortunally is just shit accept it
@ first off you getting too hostile over nothing and this conversation isn’t changing anything. And yes dbs has flaws I don’t think it’s perfect.
Secondly goku was in ui in ToP instinctively by getting beat the f up like a boxer getting in the zone except he got beat up by his own spirit bomb. Here he’s intentionally entering it which is harder.
Third he is splitting his focus on maintaining ui but also gauging gohan’s strength. So yea he got distracted by getting hit harder than expected emphasis on expected.
This is all obvious head cannon I never stated it’s actual cannon and if your still mad that’s you’re problem.
@@ciaoatutti307 actually goku and vegeta both confirm jiren is about ssj blue level of strength but he has mastered the use of his ki to a point it made him a monster beast is far beyond blue in physical stats which bypasses gokus UI reaction
@@Vulpori jiren just adapt and beat mui in manga
@@ciaoatutti307 Jiren is weaker than Beast Gohan, so nah. He knocked him off UI, and would ko Jiren in one hit.
goku wasnt fighting to see who would win he just wanted to see gohans new power in action to see if he could leave the earth in his hands
He will be it's going to happen when goku becomes a angel
@@reemosama1Goku does not want to be bound by Angel law, he wouldn't even be able to fight if he became an Angel.
The fight wouldve went different if goku was fighting for life if that was the case goku would win for sure but as a sparing match to gauge powers thats it
@@ExodiaShadowHeart Of course, Goku is more skilled than Gohan, he obviously wins with Gohan beast.
@@sebgor2319 I still don't think gohan would win to be honest, gohan doesn't have the edge over goku even with beast mode because goku is not only stronger but he has a higher skill set and also tonnes more experience, I believe gohan has more potential to become stronger than goku but until goku is fully dead and gone like at the end of gt gohan wouldnt be able to surpass him especially now that frieza has that black form goku will have to achieve greater power to now defeat him
People are forgetting this was a sparring match, so neither Gohan or Goku was taking it seriously. No real feats can really be taken from this fight
Gohan doesn't hold back you can tell when he fought Goku back dbz and dbs he wants his dad to give it his all like he's trying to kill him it's only Goku who holds back
Gohan specifically says he powers up to his max right before he outmaneuvers UI
while it was a sparring match, gohan probably look at this oppotunity to show goku that he has came a long way while goku was testing gohan of his power. gohan for sure took it way more seriously then goku.
@@DojiDoloToriyama already said Gohan is stronger than Goku.
@@therealistintheboot8822nope. Not true
They reached a point of mutual respect for one another's power
Goku could still go tui
@@Your_average_collecter even if he could he wouldn't have as it wasn't his goal to win
@@ZarkionUltimate yes
@@ZarkionUltimateTUI isn't even stronger than MUI. It's just that it's more sustainable and gokus mind during the Gas fight wasn't clear and his heartwasnt calm, he states that so he needed to take a step back. When his heart is actually calm his accuracy is much better as told to us by Whis UI has accuracies
@@theamericancommie727But tui is more powerful than mui, Atleast that's what i heard but the downside is it's a bit slower
Love that Beast is literally "Imma charge up just right before I go nuts"
Gohan's raw power = Goku's pure skill
Now imagine if he really trained☠️
@@kaiteido9963 That's the point about him being a teacher and just live his life normally.
@@MarinM87 exactly
@@MarinM87 but imagine if he kept up with his training though too
@@kaiteido9963 Prob would be similar situation as when both trained just one year in the Time Chamber. A lot of people talk about just raw power don't remember Gohan is quite smart, that's a big advantage too when training.
A draw was the best conclusion for the fight cuz if goku won, gohan fans would be angry and if gohan won, goku fans would be furious and I’m happy it was a draw
That’s exactly what I’m saying! From a writer standpoint they weren’t going to outright give the dub to either camp!
No...Gohan won
@@rewriteanime neither of them won. Toei/Bandai won. So we’ll keep talking about it. I mean that’s really the end result if you think about it.
@Danny___Riot thats true, neither of them won...only because Goku threw in the towel because the Raging Beast was all up in da a** lol
After Goku tried to sick Broly on Gohan and Broly got wrecked too 😆
This is probably the best way to handle it, but Goku still edges out Gohan. And it goes back to the Cell Saga. In Goku’s words slightly paraphrased,
what’s the use of strength if you can’t hit your opponent?
People forget that Goku doesnt go full power unless he has to, he matches power with his opponent to figure out how they fight, and then increases the power and uses his new knowledge to defeat them
Goku is clearly weaker than gohan here its just his skill isnt
They literally said they were going to use their best stuff. He wasn't holding back
@@baronbarton9479 Best stuff is ui?
@@baronbarton9479 as in best form. goku never went 100 on a fight or training, like whis said going all out is a fight, not training. goku was obv seeing his new form, why would he go out and he look hardly hurt
@@JussDraftfr this is just to downplay gohan lmao gohan clearly has way more raw speed and power lmao even with that excuse gohan form if not controled maked him cocky so and go out of control, his form is far newer than ui and is superior in strenght and speed
It was stated in Dragonball. Goku has two settings when fighting. Tournament power (Fighting for fun) and Battle power (Fighting for his life)
I think a big thing about how the fight played out was the visual storytelling: Goku being visibly more calm and stoic in his expression mid-spar while Gohan's face was an angry scowl. Which imo pushes people more to side of Goku not trying as hard while Gohan was, even though that is moreso based off the nature of their transformations, with Goku needing pure serenity of mind and body to allow his body to move without thinking like an angel while Gohan's is literally based on bestial fury and emotion - naturally Gohan will be more expressive in a fight and Goku vice-versa.
It's also a point there that Beast mode is a very new transformation for Gohan especially compared to Goku's mastered UI. So Gohan being more winded near the end is a result of that and also an added tie-in for Goku to Gohan's connection to Broly as a perfect sparring partner, since that was Broly's entire reason for training - to master his own new Super Saiyan transformation and acclimate to it to bring out the potential of the form without the drawbacks. The fact that Gohan has already reached the level of a MUI Goku with this new form (and obviously not going all-out either; dude isn't death matching his father, let's be real) is wild and, like Broly, speaks to the well of potential still inside.
*Though I think there is still the possibility of this Beast mode being Gohan's pseudo-equivalent of SSB in theory, with it being his hybrid Super Saiyan rage mixing with Kaioshin magic from the Elder Kai that unlocked his ultimate form to bring out a new grand power. Which would also complete the parallel between the four primary Saiyans in the story to the different cosmic being aspects - Goku's angelic Ultra Instinct, Vegeta's hakaishin Ultra Ego, Gohan's kaioshin Beast mode, and Broly's pure mortal freakish potential that is legend in and of itself.
Good thing that's a theory
My theory is that Gohan and Broly are both a particular type of Sayian. Both, when emotionally out of control, make massive gains in power. Gohan is just a civilized Broly.
Like he said in the fight. "I pushed myself until I felt like I would snap. Then I reigned it in and took control of the power."
Was he about to go bezerker Sayian?
@@blakpulp1366huh maybe it’s a weird little hybrid saiyan thing?
@b__w_4565 thought about that but Broly isn't a hybrid...is he 🤔
What's his momma name? Lol
I really like this comment. And yeah, in all honesty Goku wasn't taking the fight seriously so there's 0 reason to believe he was weaker imo. Still Gohan, as usual, has a lot of potential to surpass Goku. Really makes me wonder how much longer they can keep up the story of Dragon Ball with such strong characters
It’s easy to tell when Goku wants to win. It’s in how he fights. His stance, his guard, how aggressive he gets. He was so chill here he never intended to win.
That’s… literally what ui is about.. he needed to stay calm to maintain MUI
Every father wants their child to surpass them. But every father knows their child’s limits as well. Goku knew that “alright this is the most Gohan can do for now, it’s a lot but still” because Goku had a whole lot extra left in the tank and knew he would eventually overtake his son which doing that isn’t his goal in sparring with his son.
glaze, he wasnt holding back he used MUI, Gohan has more in the tank and MUI takes a great toll on his body in the fight against Jiren it was proven. Gohan litteraly punched MUI out his body lol 💀
TUI has more in the tank then MUI but even so Gohan still has more, but its weaker then MUI though more duration
Goku pure skill vs Beast was the fight. Raw power against skill
glaze asf
ui is a form where you're body moves on it's own so it's almost impossible to hold back because you always go out the only way to hold back it to use tui
Well said
@@KwaseLegall THANK YOU:)
I love how people are using a sparing match to ultimately decide who is stronger. Crazy.
Goku : *breathes*
The "fans" : OMG HIS BREATH IS MULTIVERSE LEVEL
@@flavienmaillard3910you’re the only person that’s ever said these words
@@dexterbacksmen2930 it's called an exaggeration 🤦
Don't take everything litteraly dude
No, they're saying if you're getting knocked out of your strongest form...with only a Edge of power by Gohan holding back an not going full snap mode it's clear Gohan is stronger.
@@crowing3886maybe powerwise but skillwise?
I got to say that he went near to full power because gohan stated that he went just enough to the point where he would not snap. That shows that he could even go to step further, if he were to snap and go rage mode like he did with cell
Exactly, people don't talk about this enough. He definitely has and still had more raw power to spare compared to goku
@@realizedpotential6640yup that’s what got me excited not just for Gohan but for Broly because that’s obviously what Broly did as well. How deep does the power go when they snap
Well in Z season one Gohan went from a power level of five to 1,307. In an instant. In fact when he snaps her usually becomes at least as strong as the person he's fighting or very close.
Don't forget he was throwing hands with Vegeta at 5yrs old.
@@blakpulp1366
Hell he held back second form Frieza as well
@Johncornwell103 yup. He's a civilized berserker Sayian.
The moments when he zoomed passed Gohan with ought him noticing said it right there
Goku is never one to lie about an opponent being stronger than him. If he were likely to lose, he would’ve flat out admitted it especially if that opponent was his son. He is open about how impressed he gets and he would’ve used it to hype his son up.
I would say Gohan is more or less equal to Goku, but as Gohan stated, he's still learning to fulling control Beast without losing himself to the power. We saw it in the movie how for a brief moment, his arrogance was about to take him over with that trademark smirk as when Gohan's power reaches a certain point, his Saiyan instincts fully take over.
As Vegeta also pointed out, Goku just has more experience in his UI than Gohan does with Beast but even with that small amount of control, he's able to toy with Broly, keep Vegeta at bay and bypass Goku's UI. Once Gohan fully masters his Beast Form at its critical limit, he'll more than likely be stronger than Vegeta and Goku, but roughly on part with LSSj Broly.
So yes, Goku held back in the sense that he wasn't looking to win. He wasn't trying to defeat Gohan but test his limits. Once he saw what Gohan could do and that Gohan was getting stronger than him, along with Broly's curiosity, he stopped. If the fight kept going, I say it would be a coin toss on who would win. Goku's endurance could tap out but the strain Gohan was still getting accustomed to could also net him a loss. Either way, i'm satisfied because now I have a good idea where Gohan sits in terms of his scaling. He's roughly equal, maybe a little stronger, but just requires more experience and control.
I always felt Gohans arrogance when he got a new power up came from the human side
@@tylerbush7047 Nah there's always a pattern to this when you watch Dragonball.
When Goku first awakened to Super Saiyan, despite being enraged, he became really cruel and sadistic, straight up resorting to insults and even going as far as to let Frieza live, not because Goku forgave him, but because he thought it would be a more insulting victory letting Frieza live with his failure and fear of the Saiyans.
When Vegeta first awakens, the tosses out his crafted, intellectual methodology he showed on Namek, fighting carefully and using carefully planned tactics. Instead he barreled into every battle he came across, thinking he was invincible as a Super Saiyan. This arrogance was made even worse when he reached 1st Grade, causing him to toy with Cell when he could have won in the first couple of minutes and assuming he was so utterly powerful, that even if Cell reached his Perfect Form, he would still be stronger.
We see it again with Gohan twice. 1st time was with Perfect Cell when he hit Super Saiyan 2. He became so sadistic, vengeful and vindictive that he toyed with Cell, all the way up until Goku's death. Then we see it again against Super Buu where he could have killed Buu at any time, but spent the entire time messing around and picking him apart, all because he believed himself to be superior with a hint of him wanting revenge for Chi-Chi and Videl's deaths.
Whenever a Saiyan who hasn't done proper mental training reaches a new level of power, their level of pride and arrogance takes over. They start thinking themselves so superior that nothing can hurt them, and would rather give into the pleasure of causing pain instead of winning right away. This is something I loved about original Z Broly as, once his LSSj form was unlocked, bro showed the same level of sadistic cruelty as any other Saiyan, pumped up to 11. This is also shown with Vegeta's Ultra Ego form as, the longer the battle goes on, the more savage he becomes.
Saiyans love to fight and the extreme high of battle and power causes them to toss reason and common sense out the window.
@@Netherwolf6100 I think this is only partly true. It is true that untrained SSJ1 and SSJ2 tend to bring out the battle lusting sadistic side to Saiyans. But also in Goku's case with Frieza and Gohan's case with Cell there was a very personal aspect in reaching that transformation. IIRC Kid Goku was similarly vindictive with King Piccolo but was also on the losing side unlike the former two.
With Vegeta the first fight he uses SSJ in which was vs 19 he actually is still fighting strategically which is directly described by Piccolo; he beats 19 into a corner, deliberately gets grabbed to confirm the absorption ability, finishes the fight once he has, and then powers down into a successful bluff. All of that is as calculated as one would expect of him him prior and it's most likely that fight that boosts his ego going into 18.
There's a case to be made that even without transformations Saiyans also make these same irrational decisions. Goku arguably could have simply used the Kaio Ken immediately vs Nappa but still fought out the fight without it despite the virtually instant win it gave him later. And in Gohan's case Ultimate wasn't even a Saiyan transformation (granted I think it working as it does is just weird but that's a different topic). So I'd argue there's more of an intersection of things that happens rather than just a raw pattern.
Didn’t Piccolo say gohan mastered his beast form?
@@kevenfinley2809 Not entirely sure since translations are different depending on the source. I know Gohan said he currently hasn't mastered it fully since he tells Goku that "This is all I can do, for now." implying there's more to the power he hasn't tapped into just yet, without going Berserk.
It was just a father son moment ❤
Sayans love.
That’s a dad letting his sons know what it feels like to win😂😂😂” I knew you had it you boy!” 😂
A father testing his son to see if he’s strong enough to bear the torch that must be passed on
At the end of the day, Goku knows that Gohan has more room for an increase in power. Plus, it’s well known that hybrid Saiyans have more potential than pure Saiyans
That been died down, just like the whole zenKai boost thing. Or else you would have trunks and goten just as strong and talented and they aren’t.
A long time ago they said that the only reason goten and (current)trunks got ssj easy is becuase goku and vegeta had already been ssj before their birth, some how unlocking it for them. But that’s just bad writing becuase trunks was born before vegeta went ssj.
Realistically db has evolved past that whole hybrids and gohan the strongest thing a long time ago.
@@modifiedjaymillno, it didn’t. Goten and Trunks is just being forgotten, the potential is still there
@blesseddlife future trunks doesn't t even have this potential so it is just a gohan thing
@@Therealbeastgohan Super saiyan rage?
@@modifiedjaymill Vegeta was a super saiyan when he concieved trunks in both timelines. Everything was off screen
I don't think goku would call off a match, sparring or not, if he knew he was going to lose. That's not who he is, I think it was more like the two times he sparred with trunks where it was more of just testing the others strength
Sure it is. Goku doesn't mind losing. It's not about winning and losing to Goku. That was the whole point of Roshi beating him in his first world tournament. That's what makes him different from Vegeta.
So we gone just slide past the Cell games like they didn't happen...noted lol!
@gsmith8403 That's the only time he ever did it though and he had an actual reason for it. He would have no reason to quit this fight just because he knows he'd lose
@@shmeebs387 I never said he minded losing, I just said he's not the type of person to stop a fight because he knows he'd lose
@@gsmith8403He didn't just quit against cell because he didn't think he could win. Goku (Ironically just like this sparring match) never planned on beating cell in the first place . His entire plan was to fight Cell first to give Gohan a chance to observe cells techniques amd measure his power and then pass the torch to Gohan who would then beat him and become earths protector.
Goku always holds back, even when he’s on the brink of death
Any other form i would believe that. But holding back defeats the purpose of UI, because the entire point is moving without thinking which sort of implies Goku isn't the one making the decisions of what to do when.
@@SephirothXValentine even in the the tournament of power he was holding back, up until Jiren tried to kill his team. That’s when he went head on, as you say
@@SephirothXValentine He liteally did it in the manga wdym, man was in UI an still was holding back until he closed his eyes and went into Demon 0 emotions man not even any reactions which u can see now
@@shadoow411UI, MUI, TUI is an form which should be used well. Even in the T.O.P whis said that if Goku used any emotions to amplify his strength the form would eventually wear off,. These form are consdered as the Strongest forms even Gods of Destructions trying to achieve but lacks the emotion. Angels which lacks condense emotions like others can weild these Forms easily. Goku did the same, he didnt cared about the Tournament, he didn't cared about the line of their livesis in theor hands, he just focused on his opponent, and him alone. Thats how these forms should be used.
@@S0L0Zno true ultra instinct has his sayian ecessents in it that allows to use more anger but he only used mui so goku did not go full power which would be True Ultra Instinct
gohan was holding back as well. Gohan flat out said he cant go max power because he cant fully control it.
Meaning there's alot more potential for beast gohan that gohan can discover with training...its still new to him
Goku’s real talent has always been his adaptability which led to him attaining UI, more so than ‘latent power’ like Broly and Gohan. So unless his opponent’s level is above his by a significant margin, in a serious drawn out fight he most likely wins.
Potara fusion would go crazy, give us what was teased in the buu arc
Cook
Gokhan would've happened if gohan stupid ass did catch it
Goku is like the babyface of wrestling you dont hurt the cash cow ever😅😅😅
Another thing to point out, Goku was caught off guard by Gohan's speed. And also by the end Gohan was visibly panting and had used quite a bit of energy, whereas Goku walked away without breaking a sweat. Goku at full power is still ahead, by how much? No one knows, because this man is always fucking holding back.
Edit: damn I've started a war
It was a Draw both weren't in a Death Match there pretty relative to eachother
He was not caught off Guard he was just outsped
@@Slyrock-1000 so he was caught off guard by gohan sudden burst in speed way to get what caught off guard means
@@Hardracist
Caught of guard ment if he was ready then it would not play out that way.
That not what happened, it not something that can be done to tui as the person doesn't need to be aware.
People with Ultra Instinct can't be off guard the technique is to let your body move on it's own by instinct alone even if that person is blind of what ever this technique would make your body dodge as long as they are in that state the only way to hit someone with UI is that they are fast enough to by past it which Gohan manage to do
These guys are the strongest at the most desperate situations, or when they are the angriest. They NEVER showed their full power, not even against enemies until it was absolutely necessary. And definitely not in a sparring.
So it was always obvious to me, that neither of them were really all out here.
Goku wanted Gohan to fight against Broly, so Broly could learn how to harness his own latent ability that’s it
Nah Goku was proud of his son and wanted to see the full force Gohan has hidden in him this whole time
We all know what Goku would go through for a W so I'd say he was holding back
So he held back against Black Frieza for no Reason??? ok....
@@StevenJones851 ?? frieza speed blitzed both of them
@@xdpozu Nah, if Goku wanted to he'd win. He held back definitely because i said so.
@@monsesh1316 o ok i believe you
@@monsesh1316 i was asking a question to that but i doubt he held back against Frieza or Gohan
Goku was holding back some, as he WANTS gohan to surpass him
Akira Toriyama already stated before his passing that beast Gohan is the strongest at the moment. I am sure that will change in the future. Gohan doesn't take his training seriously.
You kids are so disrespectful, you ride gohan so hard you think it's OK to make up your own statements and say that a dead guy said them, have a little respect, this man literally created dragonball, stop going around spreading lies saying toriyama said this and toriyama said that when there is literally no statements made from him saying such things.
@@mystery2877 he did say that tho, but only in the movie where gohan went beast mode against cell max, there he was the strongest out of the z fighters, that quickly changed tho
@stanciu7211 you misunderstood what toriyama said, the ACTUAL statement toriyama said was " gohan is stronger than anyone OR SO IT IS SAID, then went on to say gohan hasn't really had his turn to shine in a long time, but toriyama did say "gohan is stronger than anyone OR SO IT IS SAID" the words "or so it is said" is in no means what's so ever CONFIRMATION that gohan is the strongest, that's actually the complete opposite, what is being said there is that it is only SAID that gohan is the strongest and piccolo was the only person who mattered to say this but piccolo hasn't even seen goku or vegeta since the Moro arc so he has no clue on where current goku and vegeta stand so piccolo's assumption is nothing.
@mystery2877 bro, he said Gohan is the strongest at the moment. That was also proven in manga. Calm down. Everyone knows that's temporary. I swear y'all Goku fans want every W. 😂😂
@Ghost251_pa toriyama did not say that, and it was not proven in the manga at all, ch. 103 was CLEARLY in favor of goku, beast gohan and mui goku went toe to toe for the longest time, gohan beast leveled up twice while mui stayed the same and still continued to go toe to toe with beast, gohan said it himself that he was at his absolute max, that was clearly stated in the manga, goku never once said he was at his max, then towards the end of the battle after they were both going toe to toe goku using ONLY HIS KI managed to push a fully maxed out beast gohan back, that's basically just wind in a sense because it was only gokus ki, this literally proved to everyone that goku was hiding energy within him and hadn't let it all out yet which literally means goku was not at his max, so the fact that only gokus ki pushed gohan back proves that goku is still much stronger than gohan and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, just because goku called the fight does not mean he lost the fight, goku literally stated that " its not about who wins or loses its about testing his strength" that's all goku was doing is TESTING gohans strength to make sure that if him or vegeta aren't on earth that gohan can protect the earth. That's LITTERALLY how ch. 103 of the manga was played out, there is literally no other way to view that chapter as that was the literal plot to the chapter is testing gohans strength to see if he can protect earth. Also I'm not a goku fan I am a DragonBall fan, I love all things dragonball which makes my view more liable than yours because your only a gohan fan and ride him so hard you pick pieces out of the chapter and ignore the rest, every gohan fanboy does that.
People glad Goku pulled out the " I let you, beat me move"
Toyotaro said they were both going all out
Lol
@@Pein718that’s what I’ve been saying, Goku wouldn’t hold back in this, he’d want Gohan to go all out, we know Goku, but apparently some people do not
Goku literally ended the fight with a simple kiai.
Not only that after he was "knocked out of Ui" he was just standing their staring at the sky contemplating gohans form without a care in the world.
Then just ignites the form again
@@stevenldoe7838 cope, Gohan blitzed him once, he can do it again
While this obviously does not count as Goku losing a fight, its pretty clear that Gohan has more raw power. The reflexes of Ultra Instinct are supposed to be perfect, yet despite that Gohan surpassed it with just pure power.
Goku definitely did hold back REAL db fans knows how goku fights and I'm gohan fan
nah dude if goku was really holding back he wouldnt have jumped straight to MUI so quickly
@@HKxSlashbang47 He was training for the longest time to specifically master UI properly. The fact he went MUI just for practice would make perfect sense. Considering MUI technically isn't his strongest form he still has TUI
@@whiteyoshibrosisn't TUI just Gokus own Version of UIO(Or Ultra Instinct Sign)
@@RenRinnega TUI is a form he gets in the manga after perfecting UI and coming to terms with some back story(I’ll avoid saying spoilers) it allows him to use UI whilst still being in full control of his emotions. Before hand he was limited to forcing himself to stay calm in order to use it but TUI is basically UI without him holding his emotions back. So you know how Goku basically gets significantly stronger when he gets mad and yells. TUI means he can do that with UI now
@@HKxSlashbang47did you forget about the giant ki avatar orrrrr? That's goku at full power. He didn't use the ki avatar.
You said the answer in the video, SPARRING MATCH it is not a fight to the death with everything to lose it’s just a test of power
It wasn't stated that Gohan maxed out his ki in that powerup he just raised it. So all we know Gohan didnt go all out either
It was stated they went all out.
@@jeremymorris345it was stated that he increased his power to a level that he could control. He did not want to snap. Proving he wasn't using max beast form power
@@UchindamiKayira He went all out with what he can control then. I'm just going by the statements.
@@jeremymorris345 that doesn't mean he went full power, he literally said he is using just enough power that he gets the boost but he doesn't snap
@@UchindamiKayira Ya exactly all out with what he can control. Besides, all out isn't just power. It's also actually trying
Goku does. Not. Hold. Back. He's killed himself because he doesnt want people holding back against him. This argument is stupid
Howd you come to that conclusion
@scarecloud2741 Every fight he's ever been in? He was going to quit the tournament against Hit because they couldn't fight at full strength, and then he hired Hit to assassinate himself so he could fight at full power and Hit killed him.
Holding back is Goku's signature move wtf are you talking about
Are you an idiot ? Have you even watched DB ? Goku always ALWAYS holds back. What a dumb comment. Just 1 example...when Goku fought good guy Zamasu he told him not to hold back when GOKU HIMSELF HELD BACK.
This was super obvious. No one noticed he didn't even pop-off unique UI.
That's because the unique UI is just Ultra Instinct Sign and as long as Goku's calm enough, the silver haired UI is stronger
@@righteousone5119 Nope. Learn to read and then read the mangas. K thx.
@@KorrinBeckBro, Gas literally asks why he doesn’t go into silver haired UI during that fight since it indicates max power, and Goku tells him that in order for it to work with max efficiency, his heart needs to be CALM, but with TUI he can put his EMOTIONS to work for him. Beerus even asks Whis during the sparring match if Goku was in his most powerful form, and Whis confirms. Calm MUI > TUI > Wavering MUI > UI Omen.
@@m.d_james7736 "Bro", again, learn to read. You're already one of those that makes up names for levels so your credibility is already low. Go back and read where Whis explains the benefits of a person using personal version of Mastered UI. He literally says it's the next step and also literally learns it *during* the Granolah fight, months before where we are in the manga. Don't be like the average DB fan that has to breathe through your mouth and can't read at a middle school level.
@@KorrinBeckwhat the guy above me jut said is true. So ig you should go back and read
At these levels the only way to really tell who can win in these fights is to blow up the planet
Both are at the same level, Gohan Beast and MUI Goku. In terms of strength and power Gohan has the edge, but techniques and consistent speed advantage goes to Goku. It's incredibe how strong Gohan got to match and somewhat surpass Ultra Instinct.
If they were both fighting to kill or win. Goku would absolutely win
Nope, Gohan speed outmatched Goku ultra instinct
@@Julian_HeruAnd then?
@@Julian_Herubro cant even read🤡Gohan stated he cant use the full charged power for long and it didnt even do much to Goku who got right back up.
@@Julian_Heru But goku has domain over his form and more experience
Goku would definitely
It’s a sparring match so both Goku and Gohan didn’t go all out but it can be clearly seen that Gohan put way more effort into the fight while Goku constantly raised his power level for Gohan to surpass him
Goku said that winning against gohan was not his intention. Meaning that he was not trying to win. Think about it
As a father, we must always hold back against our children.
Toyotaro said both were going all out
@@Pein718 Toyotaro doesnt know what he's talking about. Unless ofc it aligns with what i believe in then he knows absolutely what he's talking about.
@@monsesh1316 cope, he's literally the writer, he knows better than your dumbass
@@monsesh1316 that battle came from his ass since Toriyama wasnt doing more than just some advices... so...
Goku would never take gohan serious of looking at him like an opp... and if he did... Gohan would be just like the other opps
If goku can damage him
@@UltimateMight999he can
@@SonGoku59249 yea, that's only if he tried to attack gohan off guard, just like he did in 103
This is a dumb take, Goku knew what he sensed from Gohan that's why he jumped right into UI. If Goku were holding back, then Gohan wouldn't have knocked him out of UI...
well to be fair he did catch him off guard with the massive power and speed increase, thats why he literally asked him what that was lol
@@TechStarrHe didn't cactch Goku of guard, Gohan was in front of Goku, Goku was in Mui, theire is no reseaon for him to be surprise.
Fact, Beerus and Whis confirmed Goku wasn't holding back.
@@TechStarrDid you read the manga?
@@BenescoliI found a couple of reasons of why you should go back to school
goku never goes full power on sparring, he wouldn't risk big damage even if it could be restored just for that, he knew if the fight got progressively harder that wouldn't end well for both. gohan wasn't loosing either, he fought broly and vegeta after, goku was just done seeing how gohan new power works
ui is a form where you're body moves on it's own so it's almost impossible to hold back . I took this quote from someone else and it makes perfect sense to me
This is the same case with Broly vs Gogeta:
Raw Power vs Skill
Gogeta had more raw power and skill???
@@DevilHugoRFhe probably means before gogeta went ssb, if you watch closely the two were evenly matched in super saiyain, with gogeta pulling ahead through skill
@@DevilHugoRF SSJ Gogeta and SSJ Broly were equally matched, it didn't last long however due to Gogeta's Experience and skill in combat, Broly shortly after leveled the playing field with his full power which forced gogeta to fight fire with fire by going blue
Everyone was w
aiting for This fight but the prediction Goku actually didn't Win
Mabey the Son really can surpass the father😅
OMG I got pinned😊😊
getting KNOCKED out of your transformation speaks for itself, if not for sparring losing your concentration in the heat of battle has proven to be fatal in times that being said you could make an argument both father and son werent going all out
Ultra Instinct isn't about thinking, the opposite actually. If Gohan landed a hit while Goku was in Ultra Instinct I would count that as a "Win" even though it wouldn't mean he would win a fight necessarily.
You forgot that at one point. UI Goku, Vegeta, AND Broly all ganged up on Beast Gohan because they couldn't wait to test their strength against him and Gohan still held his own.
blud they all fought against each other not against gohan plus gohan was getting overwhelmed by ssj 1 broly who's a little above ssj blue level vegeta fought him in ssj blue evolution which is much weaker than ui, it's clear that mui is stronger than beast gohan cause he was casually fighting gohan without even looking at him he flicked him and then proceeded to tell him to spar with broly without breaking a sweat
I think the creator of dragon ball always intended for gohan to take the place as the main character of the show and by the end before he died stated that gohan was now the strongest of the z-fighters. So he at least put gohan where he wanted him before he passed away. Anyone who says different is just one of the goku simps that are the reason gohan never took over as the mc in the first place.
Toriyama stated that Ultra Ego Vegeta’s power was finally able to surpass the power, durability and speed that Goku showed on planet Namek.
When looking at it objectively, both were able to continue fighting and that is exactly what both ended up doing.
Goku realized Gohan’s was getting better and better fast while his power and timing was sharpening rapidly
Goku WANTS Gohan to be the best.
It’s just that Japanese audiences LOVE Goku and want him to be the protagonist forever.
He was definitely holding back because Goku noticed Broly was observing the fight VERY keenly while in the middle of fighting Gohan.
That said I do think by the end Goku was likely around 70%-80% of his power against Gohan.
I think with more training as Gohan really taps into his new heights there's a VERY solid chance he taps into the full power of Beast.
I personally think Beast like SSJ has different forms of mastery, and Gohan only unlocked the first form, probably of three.
So Gohan will eventually unlock Grade 2 which is merely a speed bump, power bump, more efficient usage bump whilst Grade 3 will likely have a new aura altogether, complete mastery of ones own potential.
If Gohan reached his fullest potential then I strongly believe he would rival that of MUI and Goku's own variant of Sign, Vegeta's Ultra Ego and Broly's fully unlocked SSJ.
Gohan went all put meanwhile Goku held back and didn't even use perfected ultra instinct showering how much stronger Goku is 🗿💀🔥
Imagine it becomes a special thing about beast is that it can knock someone out of their transformation temporarily especially if Frieza has trained his black form to where he can stay in it having someone who can blitz and knock him out of it for a sec would be a great asset and way to use Gohan but I doubt he'll get any actual fights against anyone major soon
He smartly ended it before Gohan could get REALLY pissed off lol
It’s just doesnt feel great when goku was the one training throughout the entirety of Dbs and then Gohan suddenly catches up in a single movie. That’s a shit ton of bs from dbs
The only reason he held back is he didn't use Rage like he did before.
This sparring match is kind of like a call back to when Goku and Gohan were in the hyperbolic time chamber before the Cell Games. Goku knows he's about to get surpassed by Gohan once again. It happened a second time before this as well when Goku and Gohan were on the Supreme Kai's planet and Gohan had just unlocked his Mystic power up
Goku was just having a “My little boy’s becoming a man” moment
People forget Goku is notorious for sandbagging fights just to see his opponent's full power even in fully transformed states.
Word. It doesn't really matter, Goku was just having a proud dad moment.
"Depending on who you ask"
Marron: "Uncle Goku is a loser!"
People forget that Gohan was actually kind of the same level as blue Goku after a few serious training sessions with Piccolo before the TOP, and during the TOP he fought off a Kefla that in the anime needed a Omen UI Goku to beat.
If he can do that then its reasonable for him to match his dad or surpass him
Goku clearly stayed calm and was not out of breath so its obvious he held back
I remember when ultra instinct was a form that focused on technique and mental capacity and not just another color of super saiyan
I always think it's worth mentioning, but this also happens AFTER the Granolah ark. At which point Goku is developing a new form of UI that allows him to be more combative than he can with the original white-haired UI. A change which, as far as we know, means he can't use White-haired UI with his new style. Which makes this more like him using ssjb by the end of the More arc in that he logically has a "stronger" form he could go into instead.
I hate how no one can ever pass Goku when canonically, offsprings are made to be far superior for saiyans.
They were going all out; he wasnt holding anything back. It was plainly stated "the only edge goku has is experience."
Goku wasn't even using his strongest form. Also just look at goku facial expressions and how he attacks. He clearly isn't trying to win which he even states. He's fighting passively because he wants to see gohan full potential. If goku fought at full power, he would beat the brakes off gohan before gohan could do anything defeating the entire point. This entire sparing match was just goku toying with gohan.
Every time Goku got the upper hand with UI against Gohan just got even stronger
“Enough time has passed” bro Kagurabachi is everywhere except their own fandom 🤣
all that pent up anger within gohan back in the cell game was finally coming out of him if only he metion "remember the time you gave cell the senzu bean?" then shows the picture of gohan punching goku out of ultra instinct lol XD
Goku felt that gohan was strong enough to protect earth and keep everyone safe so he called it over
Gohan is superior just by the fact of the amount of time it took him to get there alone. But he is not maxing out. He is getting to the max that he can control without going beserk. Meaning we have not seen Gohans max.. he will push it further and further of course. This was his current max at that second.. and who knows, he likely put it to the place he felt he needed to get past UI. UI could not keep up with it. Therefore Goku was at his limit at that moment. UI essentially utilises the full 'body' of the user to avoid anything.. if he cant avoid, it means the other person is above them in that moment. If he was holding back then he would have kept dodging. Simple as that.
Father and son would never go all out against each other and we already know they power up when they get pissed off.
Goku said he just wanted to test him. His attention was not winning, while gohan used his full power.