Gene Wolfe wrote that the "Book of Gold" mentioned in The Book of the New Sun is different for each reader, but for him it was Jack Vance's "The Dying Earth."
Monte Cook's Numenera setting that's been around for awhile builds on some of these sources, introduces some other interesting references like Jack Kirby comics.
For me the one thing Vance has over Wolfe is how funny he is. Jack Vance books are some of the only books that have ever made me laugh out loud. He had an extremely unique and droll sense of humor.
The more I learn about subgenres within fantasy the more I realize I have such little knowledge about it. This was a great video and you just keep reminding me I need to read Gene Wolfe.
@@LiamsLyceum There are subgenres within subgenres and one could go through several aeons and not know all there is, for new ones would endgender whilst you plied your way through the elder. I read THEY DYING EARTH in 1966 from an original voume that I found in the cellar of my abode. This occured as Vance was writing EYES OF THE OVERWORLD, whichI just listened to on TH-cam under the aegis of Brilliance Audio. The only ways that you would know it is of the same breed is from the way the Sun is portrayed and Ascolais (pronounced in French yet) is mentioned in passing., and some deodants make appearances. OH yes, there is one more; The golk are as treacherous as other But unlike the protagonists of tDE, the one in this tale winds up with the shaft up his nether region
So it's been awhile since I've been able to watch (June has been CRAZY), but I'm loving this subgenre deep dive and would love to see more. I would argue that that Thiago Abdalla's A Touch of Light is a dying earth series because there's a blight that's literally killing the earth.
@@LiamsLyceum yeah, both my Grandmothers turned 90 this month plus I had a trip to NYC last week. It is new. The second one is due I believe he said in November. I really enjoyed it, though it took me a minute to get invested. Good luck with your school deadlines!
An intriguing setting, but not a world I've been to save for brief visits, as with HG Well's "the Time Machine", or one could argue Narnia flirts with it with the dying sun in Charn and the Last Battle - but I think the latter makes it seem that conditions were brought on by Sin of that time, or divine command, and thus is more an Apocalypse. I've got that Jack Vance omnibus though, and might be doing a group read of it sometime soon, so that's exciting since he's the big influencer many people don't know about. Gene Wolfe's New Sun intimidates me, so I'm going to wait on that. Have you read any Dark.sun books? Brom's art has always made me curious about it.
*hasn't read Narnia and feels bad about that fact* It probably would be apocalyptic since this is Lewis we are talking about. Vance is definitely someone who has lost lots of populartiy over time, but I really enjoyed the Dying Earth novels and have a few more series by him to get into. Wolfe's New Sun is one of my favorites, but I think its enjoyable just for the story, you don't have to understand everything, I know I didn't. I haven't actually read any Dark Sun yet, but my buddy Karth has. It's on the list of things to get to!
@@LiamsLyceum Oh, no need to hold back on the Chronicles of Narnia! They're (mostly) easy, fast and fun adventures, each one a little different, but you can remain and think about the ideas for as long as you desire. There's a pretty good new lore channel on it as well, "into the wardrobe".
Mark Lawrence's most famous series, The Broken Empire, is cribbed straight from Vance. I won't spoil too much, but I always found it strange that The Broken Empire is only ever brought up as a fantasy while New Sun is considered sci-fi first, fantasy second.
Try THE DANCERS AT THE END OF TIME series by Michael Moorecock THE CITY AND THE STARS by Arthur C Clarke was a rewrite of his 1937 and first novel AGAINST THE FALL OF NIGHT but in more muted tones, and, I think, better. The characters were more will developed and nuanced and the setting was more exotic and "tech"y with an interesting history. which totally clashes with what the peoples were taught It was not really an end of the world story and the city jis not even the only inhabited place on Earth. The earlier novel lead to, I think, Greg Bear's BEYOND THE FALL OF NIGH I'd have preferred that this sequel were based on THE CITY AND THE STARS
Nice to know! I still would like to get to The City and the Stars, and Dancers at the End of Time has been sitting in a pile for me to pick up for awhile.
Viriconium definitely has a dying earth vibe to it, especially the first 2, in that they take place an impossibly long time from now, where everything is OLD and exhausted. The last two books have more of a fin de siecle / Decedant vibe.
You have completely missed Michael Shea A Quest for Simbilis Nift the Lean In Yana, A Touch of the Undying The A’rak All so underrated ESP for a World Fantasy Award Winner
viriconium is dying earth - the book i think is a collection of stories. as i remember there's not so much plot, it's more of a setting by that author, who isn't very well known but is associate of moorcock i think the best novel is "the centauri device" which is a different genre, more fun space opera - fun thing is that humanity is split between essentially palestinians and israelis in the far future, ordinary people are just hoping they leave them alone
CAS has some excellent prose and concepts, also, while definitly macabre, he has some decent humor in his Zothique stories, which sets he apart from REH and HPL!
@@LiamsLyceum I believe all his Zothique stories are available online to read: I would recommend “The Empire of the Necromancers”, “Dark Eidolon”, “Xeethra”, “The Charnel God”, “The Weaver in the Vault” and “The Witchcraft of Uula”! Not gonna lie, some of the stories I am almost shocked to have been written so early, as CAS have no problem being both really narly and racy! There is an underlying idea of indulging in pure violence and pleasure (and perhaps both at the same time), when there is “no future” ahead…
@@LiamsLyceum A “MacScarfield Weekly Funfact”: Many of the Tolkien Stories in Denmark are illustrated by a “Ingahild Grathmer”, which is a pseudonym for the still reigning Queen Margaret of Denmark! Apparently this happened while Tolkien was still alive, who is said to have been awestruck by the illustrations!
I have heard some other person (probably DG) say that Book of the Ancestor is dying earth. Or at least used terminology that made it sound like that. This is a cool genre (setting) to me that I don’t think I’ve actually read anything in. I should fix that. -T
Oh cool, I haven’t watched him in years. But yeah, either if the label is used it’s what it is so ✅. There’s a decent variety of Dying Earth books, I think you could enjoy many!
Gene Wolfe wrote that the "Book of Gold" mentioned in The Book of the New Sun is different for each reader, but for him it was Jack Vance's "The Dying Earth."
Oh, that’s awesome! I love how Wolfe seems to have liked the older works and pulps
Monte Cook's Numenera setting that's been around for awhile builds on some of these sources, introduces some other interesting references like Jack Kirby comics.
For me the one thing Vance has over Wolfe is how funny he is. Jack Vance books are some of the only books that have ever made me laugh out loud. He had an extremely unique and droll sense of humor.
While enjoyed New Sun more than Vance’s Dying Earth, you’re completely right. I’m getting into more Vance sometime this month with Suldrun’s Garden
Right? Cugel murdering a clam-man over a prank cracked me up for some reason.
It's like an Adventure Time scene
Great topic! A favorite genre of mine, because it often combines sci-fi and fantasy.
I’ve come to enjoy it for the same reasons. Thanks for watching!
The more I learn about subgenres within fantasy the more I realize I have such little knowledge about it. This was a great video and you just keep reminding me I need to read Gene Wolfe.
It’s a learning process, I’m really just learning it all myself and sharing it with others. I do like things a little less popular sometimes too.
@@LiamsLyceum There are subgenres within subgenres and one could go through several aeons and not know all there is, for new ones would endgender whilst you plied your way through the elder. I read THEY DYING EARTH in 1966 from an original voume that I found in the cellar of my abode. This occured as Vance was writing EYES OF THE OVERWORLD, whichI just listened to on TH-cam under the aegis of Brilliance Audio. The only ways that you would know it is of the same breed is from the way the Sun is portrayed and Ascolais (pronounced in French yet) is mentioned in passing., and some deodants make appearances. OH yes, there is one more; The golk are as treacherous as other But unlike the protagonists of tDE, the one in this tale winds up with the shaft up his nether region
Thank you for this video. I came across the Vance serie and this is one of the only video about the genre. Great work!
Glad I could help!
I really love the Dying Earth genre. I really interesed to work with the genre myself in my tabletop rpgs.
I think it could work quite well in tabletop.
The Zothique stories are fantastic! There is a new collection by Hippopotamus press that's awesome.
Jack Got a lot of inspiration from CAS. Zothique is darker, Sword and Sorcery type stories.
@@midnightgreen8319 CAS is a master and I need to read more Zothique but it is definitely more macabre than Vance.
@@LiamsLyceum That's why I love it! I like Vance, but Love Zothique.
So glad people gaf about these old beautiful books.
Doing my part ✌️
Didn't realize that Clark Ashton Smith lead to Vance! Thanks for a cool video.
🫡 Makes me wonder what Smith would have thought of The Dying Earth, the first book was out before he passed.
So it's been awhile since I've been able to watch (June has been CRAZY), but I'm loving this subgenre deep dive and would love to see more. I would argue that that Thiago Abdalla's A Touch of Light is a dying earth series because there's a blight that's literally killing the earth.
I feel you, I have some big things due for school soon. I’ll have to check that one out, it’s pretty new isn’t it?
@@LiamsLyceum yeah, both my Grandmothers turned 90 this month plus I had a trip to NYC last week.
It is new. The second one is due I believe he said in November. I really enjoyed it, though it took me a minute to get invested.
Good luck with your school deadlines!
Wright's Awake in The Nightland is a sequel to William Hope Hodgeson's book.
Ok, cool! That’s what I was assuming but failing to put into words
An intriguing setting, but not a world I've been to save for brief visits, as with HG Well's "the Time Machine", or one could argue Narnia flirts with it with the dying sun in Charn and the Last Battle - but I think the latter makes it seem that conditions were brought on by Sin of that time, or divine command, and thus is more an Apocalypse.
I've got that Jack Vance omnibus though, and might be doing a group read of it sometime soon, so that's exciting since he's the big influencer many people don't know about. Gene Wolfe's New Sun intimidates me, so I'm going to wait on that. Have you read any Dark.sun books? Brom's art has always made me curious about it.
*hasn't read Narnia and feels bad about that fact*
It probably would be apocalyptic since this is Lewis we are talking about. Vance is definitely someone who has lost lots of populartiy over time, but I really enjoyed the Dying Earth novels and have a few more series by him to get into. Wolfe's New Sun is one of my favorites, but I think its enjoyable just for the story, you don't have to understand everything, I know I didn't. I haven't actually read any Dark Sun yet, but my buddy Karth has. It's on the list of things to get to!
@@LiamsLyceum Oh, no need to hold back on the Chronicles of Narnia! They're (mostly) easy, fast and fun adventures, each one a little different, but you can remain and think about the ideas for as long as you desire. There's a pretty good new lore channel on it as well, "into the wardrobe".
Mark Lawrence's most famous series, The Broken Empire, is cribbed straight from Vance. I won't spoil too much, but I always found it strange that The Broken Empire is only ever brought up as a fantasy while New Sun is considered sci-fi first, fantasy second.
Try THE DANCERS AT THE END OF TIME series by Michael Moorecock
THE CITY AND THE STARS by Arthur C Clarke was a rewrite of his 1937 and first novel AGAINST THE FALL OF NIGHT but in more muted tones, and, I think, better. The characters were more will developed and nuanced and the setting was more exotic and "tech"y with an interesting history. which totally clashes with what the peoples were taught It was not really an end of the world story and the city jis not even the only inhabited place on Earth. The earlier novel lead to, I think, Greg Bear's BEYOND THE FALL OF NIGH I'd have preferred that this sequel were based on THE CITY AND THE STARS
Nice to know! I still would like to get to The City and the Stars, and Dancers at the End of Time has been sitting in a pile for me to pick up for awhile.
Viriconium definitely has a dying earth vibe to it, especially the first 2, in that they take place an impossibly long time from now, where everything is OLD and exhausted. The last two books have more of a fin de siecle / Decedant vibe.
I’ve been looking for a copy of The Pastel City for awhile, good to hear!
You have completely missed Michael Shea
A Quest for Simbilis
Nift the Lean
In Yana, A Touch of the Undying
The A’rak
All so underrated
ESP for a World Fantasy Award Winner
viriconium is dying earth - the book i think is a collection of stories. as i remember there's not so much plot, it's more of a setting
by that author, who isn't very well known but is associate of moorcock i think the best novel is "the centauri device" which is a different genre, more fun space opera - fun thing is that humanity is split between essentially palestinians and israelis in the far future, ordinary people are just hoping they leave them alone
Did Vance see "the dying earth of the future !?
CAS has some excellent prose and concepts, also, while definitly macabre, he has some decent humor in his Zothique stories, which sets he apart from REH and HPL!
I adore CAS, I’ve only read one of his Zothique tales though.
@@LiamsLyceum I believe all his Zothique stories are available online to read: I would recommend “The Empire of the Necromancers”, “Dark Eidolon”, “Xeethra”, “The Charnel God”, “The Weaver in the Vault” and “The Witchcraft of Uula”!
Not gonna lie, some of the stories I am almost shocked to have been written so early, as CAS have no problem being both really narly and racy! There is an underlying idea of indulging in pure violence and pleasure (and perhaps both at the same time), when there is “no future” ahead…
@@MacScarfield definitely noting those. I’ll check out eldritch dark
@@LiamsLyceum A “MacScarfield Weekly Funfact”: Many of the Tolkien Stories in Denmark are illustrated by a “Ingahild Grathmer”, which is a pseudonym for the still reigning Queen Margaret of Denmark! Apparently this happened while Tolkien was still alive, who is said to have been awestruck by the illustrations!
I have heard some other person (probably DG) say that Book of the Ancestor is dying earth. Or at least used terminology that made it sound like that. This is a cool genre (setting) to me that I don’t think I’ve actually read anything in. I should fix that.
-T
Oh cool, I haven’t watched him in years. But yeah, either if the label is used it’s what it is so ✅. There’s a decent variety of Dying Earth books, I think you could enjoy many!
Apart from the (in my opinion) sleep inducing Gene Wolfe contributions, I love the Dying Earth stable of novels.
The Demon Princes books are better by far.
Two words: Boring and overrated. But at least I tried it.
Tried what? There's a whole variety of very different books mentioned here.