i think every league player aspires to not make any mistakes (at least they should) but that would mean that they are generally, because ADCs hare punished much harder for making any mistake, underrated. Basically they are below their "actual" elo. Beyond that, you are playing with people who make more mistakes than you do which becomes a problem if their mistake has bigger consequences for you than it has for them. A support shitting the bed is not really a problem for the support yet but the lane becomes unplayable for the ADC.
Adc historically has been the role for the most knowledgeable and mechanically gifted player on your team. This has two effects, insane carry potential and going out of the game if you missplay. Other roles have a much tinier margin, so effectively they are capped by their adc being bad by your logic.
I agree more with baus and nemesis, it's more about crit items being weak, which is somewhat fixed by buffs, but not really, yone is the one actually getting more from these. Also adc comes online too late, even with anti-snowball changes. Therefore lethality is meta, it's just comes online way earlier, too early even
The argument that you have to play perfect isn’t a good counter argument though, you can say that for just about anything, ofc playing “perfect,” is going to have you win, but that’s inhuman. You’d have to have hardest difficulty chess AI, and they can prob win with any opening
and I think the biggest argument for saying ADC is weak is just that youre so reliant on teammates. Support seems stronger than ever with the new items and they can completely decide what an ADC should do, even if it isnt the right thing to do. If your support perma roams when youre in a bad spot or a bad matchup, yes you can probably still 1v1 enemy adc if you play 'perfectly' and outspace him 5 autos in a row but that isnt reality. I dont think ADC is very weak butin soloQ its obvious that top support and jungle are stronger right now. In most roles you lose if you have 4 worse players on your team, but on ADC its almost always a given. Another reason why the playing perfect argument isnt very good imo is because losing because you make a single mistake while other roles are allowed to make alot of more mistakes can still make the role weak. I think a big frustration with support is how sometimes it looks like they can die and die and die and roam and bad timers but theyre still allowed to win, while if on adc u have 1 bad click that just might mean u get blown up in a fight
So by buffing IE and navori you for sure buff adc, but the problem with adc lays in the fact that other role just have more and an easier way of impacting the game. Thats why the best ADCs are often ADCs that need their team the least or build lethality items to be able to play and assist from far far away. I think nerfing support items and maybe grubs is a better way of doing it. Dont even think grubs are OP but if u nerf them a little bit I think placebo will have its way of making supports and teams play around bot more again, instead of just perma fighting topside.
the argument is fine, its just poorly worded. it seems like his point is that ADC as a role, is a lot less forgiving than other roles. his point about playing perfectly is definitely an exaggeration of how punishing mistakes in lane can feel as an adc
The problem i have with adc is that it rely way too much on support. A gold adc and plat sp will always beat the plat adc and gold sp. This won’t be as much of a issue in higher elo when people’s skills are closer to each other but makes low elo an absolute hell to climb on adc. The lane having 2 people also make it a lot easier to snowball and because sp are so much more impactful early, the lane is usually decided in the first 10 mins by the better sp. Why bother perfectly positioning and dodging skill shots as marksmen just to get 1-shot by literal air when I could pick karma or senna, get a free damage item at 8 min, and 1v1 their adc.
I Agree with everything you said i just wanna add that i think adc rn is also about picking the right champ in the right games at least from what i've noticed. And it feels like blinding anything but zeri or varus atm just makes you flip the game in draft. Great vid tho :)
I’m a Lux main (I play her bot, support or mid) but I like playing ADC sometimes and I feel so much more useful as an ADC champ (usually Ashe). And as an ADC you scale so hard with just items, like with Lux having full build doesn’t even feel like that big of a power spike because the enemy will also be tankier at full build… but ADC mains have items that are strong against tanks so that’s not an issue for them, even in the midgame.
I Play zyra ADC bot with a friend He plays leona and IT works even WE somtimes strugel a bit in realy early laningface its Just unfair how ADC or Support cant do anything after 6 WE CC them for 6-8 sec and they get eaten by my plants 😂
Actually a perfect take btw from Dean. Adc played perfectly IS the strongest role. The problem does lie that in a game of hundreds of decisions. Making one or two mistakes means you’re done. DONE. Almost all other roles allow for mistakes, a lot of them too. Idk how to solve that issue other than redistributing power of ADCS to have less damage and more survivability. The issue is that make in fact tank the roles identity as a whole.
Adc is the strongest role in the game, period. The problem is since thats well understood, both teams consider both adcs when considering strategy. Assassins dont exist to get random picks, they exist to delete cockt adcs. Tanks are designed to not die to adcs burts, etc etc. I play top, and we finally get a meta where winning top 1v1 matters for the gamestate and its immediately getting changed again, because every time adcs complain Riot will break the game to make them happy
Even Baus, a guy that was sayin that adc is broken, have different opinion rn. Do u think this is ok that 30% of adc players changed lanes and had become top/mid players?
@9lunari9 yea people can do whatever the hell they want. People switching roles doesnt necessarily tell you anything about the balance of the role. Jungle and support are very powerful roles, but are also the least played
No matches are perfect, because everyone makes mistakes. This is an important factor in winning or losing matches. Alune: It’s a major requirement to improve. Aphelios: A lot of people are getting prepared. Let’s go.
in my opinion adc only needs minor defense stats buffs, bcs I was playing Draven late game full build with 4 hextech drag and the soul buff was enough for me to not get one shot and actually deal dps and win
can you make a guide for the small mechanical stuff to play aphelios more smoothly? like I know you can cancel animations or something idk I have a thing especially with the root where I know I can do something about it and be more smooth and clean idk
no i agree if i play perfect the role is broken. you know what i don't do? play perfect. the buffs are gonna be dumb but either way ADC is broken in the longrun and people are gonna hate it more now with the buffs
I think what nemesis and baus were saying (i saw Ratirl reacting on nemesis's react) is that it is the most frustrating role to play, because you have not other good way of expressing yourself other than dpsing, and in 1/3 of the games you can't because of the draft. Whereas adc used to be the scaling role, that would be able to turn around a game completely at 30 mins if you were good with it, now the essence of the role isn't that important and sometimes your pick is gonna be useless. "Don't blindpick random shit" you might say. But then who does? Who blind picks? And what do you blind pick? People used to blindpick sivir or Xayah but when the meta isn't in their favor, you really FEEL the difference with some other adcs. So yeah 1/3 isn't that much since you need 55-60% wr to climb, but it's still enough to inflict mental damages to adcs (I haven't showered in 4 days and stacked 50 games of Twitch in 4 days). I played a lot of Darius top and Swain mid, and I feel like other roles don't have the same frustration potential, even in toplane where counterpick or 0/1 basically means you don't get to have a game.
"make absolute no mistakes" and you can "carry easily". i mean... c'mon man haha. but i can't argue that adc is the most rewarding role for having good micro, you can see how scripting is always better on ADCS, taking over games just by AA and dodging absolutely everything in the meantime.
I cant't really agree with you on everything. ADC definitely has the least impact of the 5 roles considering the dependency on the sup. I can probably recount at least three games where I have a bard support perma roaming while the enemies have something like lucian nami making me completely unable to even walk up for cs. That just doesnt happen in other roles
+1 to this, botlane its a 2vs2 lane with all the advantages and disadvantages, and the "ideal" world doesnt exist, whe live in the real world where we do mistakes
@@LordHurdan Yeah it is the first mecanic u need to understand on top so? U said that like because it is toxic it is unfair no bro that's not works like that. And a ADC ennemi can frozen your lane too u never play ADC in decent elo but it is not usefull and u know why? cause the lane are decide at 10 min
I think dodging is an adc’s best friend right now; do they have 3 champs that will make your life hell? Just dodge it. Did someone forget to ban smolded and cait is banned? Dodge. Do they have 3 invis champs? Dodge. Is senna up and you didn’t pick it? Dodge. Playing for a safe lane feels great too considering basically all games are going 30+ minutes, getting to 3 items means you can probably carry. If regular adcs aren’t working, spam smolder, senna (bork->wits end->ldr) and kog/twitch and you will climb they are broken
Is adc harder? Uh... maybe, its the role that champs scale with gold, so you need to be good at farming. Also, when you say "Ad carry" you mean all champions who play in that role or only the ones who have AD builds? If you are only talking about the Ad crit carries, yeah its true that crit builds are weak, however thats not a role, its a champion type. In my opinion, the adc role isnt weak, but "AD crit carry" is, the role is fine.
well, real life is not a hypothetical argument, nobody plays adc perfectly, and the role on average feels the least rewarding for equivalent input of effort and mastery aka other roles can carry harder for less effort (not saying adc is the hardest role just that two players of equal skills but one support and one adc the support player will carry more on average). additionally, you literally have the best adc players in the world still sometimes taking fat Ls to getting giga support gapped, nothing you can do about that. you can still disregard all that with a simple "just play better bro" but one last thing remains and it has nothing to do with individual performance: adc is not THE primary carry role anymore, that used to be its primary identity but that's just gone, there are plenty of champs in each of the other 4 roles that can carry games with damage, including support. it would make sense for adc to feel as punishing as it is if the late game "glass cannon carry" dream was real, but actually you're so much more glass without being much more cannon than other carry champs.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
i think every league player aspires to not make any mistakes (at least they should)
but that would mean that they are generally, because ADCs hare punished much harder for making any mistake, underrated. Basically they are below their "actual" elo. Beyond that, you are playing with people who make more mistakes than you do which becomes a problem if their mistake has bigger consequences for you than it has for them. A support shitting the bed is not really a problem for the support yet but the lane becomes unplayable for the ADC.
Adc historically has been the role for the most knowledgeable and mechanically gifted player on your team. This has two effects, insane carry potential and going out of the game if you missplay. Other roles have a much tinier margin, so effectively they are capped by their adc being bad by your logic.
I agree more with baus and nemesis, it's more about crit items being weak, which is somewhat fixed by buffs, but not really, yone is the one actually getting more from these. Also adc comes online too late, even with anti-snowball changes. Therefore lethality is meta, it's just comes online way earlier, too early even
The argument that you have to play perfect isn’t a good counter argument though, you can say that for just about anything, ofc playing “perfect,” is going to have you win, but that’s inhuman. You’d have to have hardest difficulty chess AI, and they can prob win with any opening
Yeah i think it is not a good argument too
and I think the biggest argument for saying ADC is weak is just that youre so reliant on teammates. Support seems stronger than ever with the new items and they can completely decide what an ADC should do, even if it isnt the right thing to do. If your support perma roams when youre in a bad spot or a bad matchup, yes you can probably still 1v1 enemy adc if you play 'perfectly' and outspace him 5 autos in a row but that isnt reality. I dont think ADC is very weak butin soloQ its obvious that top support and jungle are stronger right now. In most roles you lose if you have 4 worse players on your team, but on ADC its almost always a given. Another reason why the playing perfect argument isnt very good imo is because losing because you make a single mistake while other roles are allowed to make alot of more mistakes can still make the role weak. I think a big frustration with support is how sometimes it looks like they can die and die and die and roam and bad timers but theyre still allowed to win, while if on adc u have 1 bad click that just might mean u get blown up in a fight
So by buffing IE and navori you for sure buff adc, but the problem with adc lays in the fact that other role just have more and an easier way of impacting the game. Thats why the best ADCs are often ADCs that need their team the least or build lethality items to be able to play and assist from far far away. I think nerfing support items and maybe grubs is a better way of doing it. Dont even think grubs are OP but if u nerf them a little bit I think placebo will have its way of making supports and teams play around bot more again, instead of just perma fighting topside.
the argument is fine, its just poorly worded.
it seems like his point is that ADC as a role, is a lot less forgiving than other roles.
his point about playing perfectly is definitely an exaggeration of how punishing mistakes in lane can feel as an adc
Grubs are protecting adc imao, if they nerf grubs the junglers start to spam gank bot again@@ensiemen9836
Shared xp and crit are weak, but if you have prio and get soloxp mid game, you surely will be strong
thats the point though, 1 mistake on any other role and u can still carry, adc u can be completely removed from the game
“In a perfect world a perfect ad carry is gonna the strongest member of your team” in a perfect world league wouldnt 🗿
that's a solid point
The problem i have with adc is that it rely way too much on support. A gold adc and plat sp will always beat the plat adc and gold sp. This won’t be as much of a issue in higher elo when people’s skills are closer to each other but makes low elo an absolute hell to climb on adc. The lane having 2 people also make it a lot easier to snowball and because sp are so much more impactful early, the lane is usually decided in the first 10 mins by the better sp. Why bother perfectly positioning and dodging skill shots as marksmen just to get 1-shot by literal air when I could pick karma or senna, get a free damage item at 8 min, and 1v1 their adc.
Real
In which cases do you go PTA and in which cases do you go feet
I Agree with everything you said i just wanna add that i think adc rn is also about picking the right champ in the right games at least from what i've noticed. And it feels like blinding anything but zeri or varus atm just makes you flip the game in draft.
Great vid tho :)
Wtf Mou´V 2:26
I’m a Lux main (I play her bot, support or mid) but I like playing ADC sometimes and I feel so much more useful as an ADC champ (usually Ashe). And as an ADC you scale so hard with just items, like with Lux having full build doesn’t even feel like that big of a power spike because the enemy will also be tankier at full build… but ADC mains have items that are strong against tanks so that’s not an issue for them, even in the midgame.
I Play zyra ADC bot with a friend He plays leona and IT works even WE somtimes strugel a bit in realy early laningface its Just unfair how ADC or Support cant do anything after 6 WE CC them for 6-8 sec and they get eaten by my plants 😂
BRO WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT 2:30 THAT SHIT WAS INSANE
because this is an Aphelios channel and we are used to it.
Actually a perfect take btw from Dean. Adc played perfectly IS the strongest role. The problem does lie that in a game of hundreds of decisions. Making one or two mistakes means you’re done. DONE. Almost all other roles allow for mistakes, a lot of them too.
Idk how to solve that issue other than redistributing power of ADCS to have less damage and more survivability. The issue is that make in fact tank the roles identity as a whole.
I’d expect a champion that’s super mechanical to be the strongest in a “perfect game”
I love the fact people have different opinions on this topic. Hate onesided arguments
what are his runes?
Adc is the strongest role in the game, period.
The problem is since thats well understood, both teams consider both adcs when considering strategy.
Assassins dont exist to get random picks, they exist to delete cockt adcs. Tanks are designed to not die to adcs burts, etc etc.
I play top, and we finally get a meta where winning top 1v1 matters for the gamestate and its immediately getting changed again, because every time adcs complain Riot will break the game to make them happy
Even Baus, a guy that was sayin that adc is broken, have different opinion rn. Do u think this is ok that 30% of adc players changed lanes and had become top/mid players?
@9lunari9 yea people can do whatever the hell they want. People switching roles doesnt necessarily tell you anything about the balance of the role. Jungle and support are very powerful roles, but are also the least played
@@Cellus5000and? xd your argument is not argument
@@dkfool8659 neither is yours lol
No matches are perfect, because everyone makes mistakes.
This is an important factor in winning or losing matches.
Alune: It’s a major requirement to improve.
Aphelios: A lot of people are getting prepared. Let’s go.
in my opinion adc only needs minor defense stats buffs, bcs I was playing Draven late game full build with 4 hextech drag and the soul buff was enough for me to not get one shot and actually deal dps and win
no o ne playss perfect
finally a lucid ADC player
can you make a guide for the small mechanical stuff to play aphelios more smoothly? like I know you can cancel animations or something idk
I have a thing especially with the root where I know I can do something about it and be more smooth and clean idk
no i agree if i play perfect the role is broken. you know what i don't do? play perfect. the buffs are gonna be dumb but either way ADC is broken in the longrun and people are gonna hate it more now with the buffs
great content, thank you !
craaaaaaazy!!!!!!!!!
bro majestic
I think what nemesis and baus were saying (i saw Ratirl reacting on nemesis's react) is that it is the most frustrating role to play, because you have not other good way of expressing yourself other than dpsing, and in 1/3 of the games you can't because of the draft. Whereas adc used to be the scaling role, that would be able to turn around a game completely at 30 mins if you were good with it, now the essence of the role isn't that important and sometimes your pick is gonna be useless. "Don't blindpick random shit" you might say. But then who does? Who blind picks? And what do you blind pick? People used to blindpick sivir or Xayah but when the meta isn't in their favor, you really FEEL the difference with some other adcs. So yeah 1/3 isn't that much since you need 55-60% wr to climb, but it's still enough to inflict mental damages to adcs (I haven't showered in 4 days and stacked 50 games of Twitch in 4 days). I played a lot of Darius top and Swain mid, and I feel like other roles don't have the same frustration potential, even in toplane where counterpick or 0/1 basically means you don't get to have a game.
top lane is really annoying tbh, you blind pick a tank and the enemy picks gwen you're better of being afk than laning
YESSSS gorgeous
"make absolute no mistakes" and you can "carry easily". i mean... c'mon man haha. but i can't argue that adc is the most rewarding role for having good micro, you can see how scripting is always better on ADCS, taking over games just by AA and dodging absolutely everything in the meantime.
you fighted clown this game
CRIT BUFFS 🎉🎉🎉
Longer videos pleaseee
worst role doesnt mean unplayable just feels bad to play
More videos plz
Great playing. Terrible argument though
Who let bro cook?
you said shit.
Dont worry, ADC got buffs coming soon, havent you heard?
I cant't really agree with you on everything. ADC definitely has the least impact of the 5 roles considering the dependency on the sup. I can probably recount at least three games where I have a bard support perma roaming while the enemies have something like lucian nami making me completely unable to even walk up for cs. That just doesnt happen in other roles
+1 to this, botlane its a 2vs2 lane with all the advantages and disadvantages, and the "ideal" world doesnt exist, whe live in the real world where we do mistakes
It absolutely happens in other lanes. You’ve clearly never been into a counter matchup too lane and gotten frozen for 5 mins unable to walk up.
@@LordHurdankid named Darius ☺️
@@LordHurdan Yeah it is the first mecanic u need to understand on top so? U said that like because it is toxic it is unfair no bro that's not works like that. And a ADC ennemi can frozen your lane too u never play ADC in decent elo but it is not usefull and u know why? cause the lane are decide at 10 min
FIST
👊🏻?
you would like that wouldn't you?
I think dodging is an adc’s best friend right now; do they have 3 champs that will make your life hell? Just dodge it. Did someone forget to ban smolded and cait is banned? Dodge. Do they have 3 invis champs? Dodge. Is senna up and you didn’t pick it? Dodge.
Playing for a safe lane feels great too considering basically all games are going 30+ minutes, getting to 3 items means you can probably carry.
If regular adcs aren’t working, spam smolder, senna (bork->wits end->ldr) and kog/twitch and you will climb they are broken
Is adc harder? Uh... maybe, its the role that champs scale with gold, so you need to be good at farming. Also, when you say "Ad carry" you mean all champions who play in that role or only the ones who have AD builds?
If you are only talking about the Ad crit carries, yeah its true that crit builds are weak, however thats not a role, its a champion type.
In my opinion, the adc role isnt weak, but "AD crit carry" is, the role is fine.
ADC mains complain way too much about the role... Refreshing to see one who doesn't.
Love your vids dude!
can you show/include runes next time please
well, real life is not a hypothetical argument, nobody plays adc perfectly, and the role on average feels the least rewarding for equivalent input of effort and mastery aka other roles can carry harder for less effort (not saying adc is the hardest role just that two players of equal skills but one support and one adc the support player will carry more on average). additionally, you literally have the best adc players in the world still sometimes taking fat Ls to getting giga support gapped, nothing you can do about that. you can still disregard all that with a simple "just play better bro" but one last thing remains and it has nothing to do with individual performance: adc is not THE primary carry role anymore, that used to be its primary identity but that's just gone, there are plenty of champs in each of the other 4 roles that can carry games with damage, including support. it would make sense for adc to feel as punishing as it is if the late game "glass cannon carry" dream was real, but actually you're so much more glass without being much more cannon than other carry champs.
Play APhelios pls
bro upload little more often, c'mon!
Cringe take from an apehlios one trick player.