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It says a lot of this man to stand and listen and remain calm while 4 people come at him with things that are the truth but not what he thinks is true. May God deliver him from his false religion 🙏🏼💕
Former LDS here. Thank you and praise God for those trying to share the Biblical gospel in love to our LDS friends. God is opening hearts and eyes to the truth.
Former Methodist here, you may thanked your 3 personality in 1 being god as i did before. But that doesn't make any change. You still don't understand the bible, Amen.
@Saved by his grace *G2G* You and the mormons has a different god. They are praying for your souls too, so that you will leave your lunatic god, i bet they did.!!!
Excellent content guys! Praise Jesus Christ for the work He’s putting into your hands guys. May He keep filling you all with determination and perseverance.
We used to have the missionaries over when I was young and they were such good people and I didn't know Jesus Christ and what he did for me and I still fill unworthy of his sacrifice he did for me but the HOLY SPIRIT laid His hand on my heart after my daughter's death in my worst time ever and I was crying out to God and saying WHY!? And I felt a hand on my heart and I was filled with a Love that is not of this Earth and a rush of un earthly LOVE SURGED THROUGH MY BODY AND OUT OF MY FINGERS AND TOES and I was given discernment and could see false religion and new my Devine input who was speaking the Word and found most religious groups have added man's own word with the Word so Jesus bless your work and I know in my heart that you speak God's Truth and not a watered down version for greed or to accommodate for the people sake.
William Ringler I feel for you loosing your Daughter. I hope that Jesus hods you in his arms for comfort. I lost my Son in 2012 and lost my Daughter in the end of December 2018. I’m glad this time I have my Church family to get us through it. God Bless Sir
hawkerdoo He can if He wanted to but the Bible says only Faith can please God. He moves us to places in our lives where we can exercise faith. This is how He operated throughout the Old Testament
@@bentonvillefamily This is what I hear when you put it like that. This god can but won't destroy a fundamental wrong, then hold you hostage to faith. It doesn't sound like this god is very good at doing its job.
9:20 This is what I told a family member and he told me that I was wrong. When I was in the Mormon temple years ago, I heard a female say my name. I was so certain that it was the person who I was doing the temple ordinance for. I didn't test the spirits as the Word says and I now know that it was an unclean spirit, even though it seemed benign. Praise Jesus for saving me from these lies. There shouldn't be any denominations. There ought to be the Church of Jesus Christ that preaches the Word only.
@@chawkz I only quoted the scripture in a different way, but that doesn't includes the atheists and those who do not believe Jesus is God, because stupid atheists have their own truth.LOL John 8:31-32 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. If that doesn't mean any sense to you, then i am sorry for you because you can't understand what i am saying. God's word doesn't determine anything, it is those who believe in that God can determine if what they read is true or the truth according to their experiences. (Hayssst, why am i explaining to an idiot again?????)
@@joeyfeliciano9199 Calling someone an idiot sir is showing your lack of respect, care, and dignity, by which you need to repent and believe the Gospel. "I only quoted the scripture in a different way." Nope, you're twisting Scripture out of context to make your case, which is arbitrary. Let's see what God says. You said "God's word doesn't determine anything, it is those who believe in that God can determine if what they read is true or the truth according to their experiences." Nope, not true. Our experiences don't determine truth, God's word determines truth. John 17:17 "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." This verse shows that God's Word IS truth. Now, to the verse you quoted and twisted out of context; John 8:31-32 "To the Jews who had believed Him, Jesus said, If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." This verse is saying that if you read The Word of The Living God, and you are obedient to His teachings, you will know the Truth (referencing the Bible) and it will be set you free (receive the gift of Salvation).
@@palerity6320 Are you fucking idiot? (i am asking you) You said that John 17:17 shows that Gods word is truth.LOL What DID i say again? God's word is what? And what did you say then? (Haysst am i talking to an idiot again?) To the verses i gave which is from the original KJV that you can download in to your computer easily, and which i do not know what version you use, John 8:31-32 "To the Jews who had believed Him, Jesus said, If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." Thise verses shows that if you read the word of God, and you are obedient to His teachings, you will know the truth. (not referring to the bible, because bible contains the old testament too, you stupid!, and no christian do the burn offering after he ascend to heaven). You are the one twisting the scripture like what apologia men do.LOL Jesus commanded all to be baptized and to baptize people who believe in His teachings in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit! And be perfect even as the Father which is in Heaven, who is perfect. And by obeying what He say you will know if what He said is true if it works to you. But if not i don't think you can say that it is true.LOL
This video is 20 minutes long, but like the other response said the apostle Paul was transformed in an instant. Also no one can make anyone change, only those who accept Christ through the Holy Spirit.
Yeah if it's God's will then if course you can be changed in an instant. Through God all things are possible. But generally he changes your heart, not your views. Your views will come from your change of heart.
Matt Bell So isn’t a heart transformation as change of mind? Meaning a change of views? Only then, by fruit and testing of Spirit we could see the change right?
L O V E this so much. So much love from all of you, so beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to spend with this deceived Mormon. When he talked about "seeing" things and things of the temple it creeps me out. If only they knew it's not of God. Sending so much love and prayers your way. Super exciting he wants to meet up again. What translation are you reading from?
Mormons are not like us ordinary sinners. When we come to faith, our lives change, but we are unlikely to lose our families, friends, jobs or business connections, etc over it. For them, those things are real possibilities. Their entire lives are wrapped up in their church, all of their social lives, their entire families, often everything they've ever known their whole lives. Think about that for a minute, how hard it would be to just totally uproot your entire life, all you know. I have great admiration for those who do walk away, I'm grateful for my Christian upbringing, it was so much easier for me.
I walked away from my family, friends and business life after I got saved. Not in one instance but progressively over the course of a few years. It is difficult, but 100%?worth it. Seek and ye shall find.
I have two brothers that are athiest, everyone else on my wife's side and mine are active lds, they feel I've lost my mind and been led astray accepting the bible and it's narrative, I live in Utah county, I love these conversations, I feel armed to engage error but it's sad the justification that holds their worldview together, often it leads to unbelief when it crumbles, there's no foundation to fall back on.
Luke 9:23-26 King James Version (KJV) 23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. 25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? 26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
When i leave Methodist, my relatives and friends are fine with that. But when mormons come to my house, they are ready to turn their back. What happened to the world????
Good conversation but here's something I feel would be helpful: You should keep the convos 1 on 1. Your support crew should avoid commenting (unless specifically addressed by the other side) and focus more on holding space for the convo. This helps keep things on point and prevents someone from feeling "ganged up on" which can stifle the ministry.
I recently had about a dozen meetings with a pair of Mormon missionaries that, in a strange way, turned me strongly back towards 'conventional' Christianity, despite being a 'non believer' for over 40 years. I was brought up Christian (though my parents weren't particularly 'devout', and I think viewed the church more as serving a 'social' function). At around the age of 10 my faith just faded away, and we stopped going to church. For the last 4 decades, I've called myself an 'agnostic' (I was never comfortable with the term 'atheist', as I DID believe there might be SOME kind of 'God', but I wasn't sure WHO that God was). Four years ago, I suffered some terrible traumas that threw me into an EXTREME depression. Then, about 3 months ago, I was sitting in the park when I was approached by a pair of Mormon missionaries. One of them in particular I can honestly describe as probably the nicest and most KIND person I've ever met, and we had this instant BOND like true best friends. At our first meeting we prayed together (though in retrospect, I think I was praying to the true God of the Bible, while they were praying to a false God). Immediately afterwards I felt uplifted, and I kept meeting with them because it was really helping me in coming out of my depression. Having learned the power of prayer, I then built prayer (on my own) into my daily life. I found it incredibly powerful, and felt I was (and still am) connecting with the TRUE God of the Bible. I also bought myself a Bible, and am devouring it, learning so much. After our first meeting, I started researching Mormonism on the internet, and very quickly realised it was utter bullshit and completely unbiblical. However, I continued to meet with them, because I really had formed a deep BOND with one of them, and they were so helpful in lifting me out of the terrible depression I'd been stuck in. In the interim, I joined a 'proper' church (I am in the U.K and the church I joined is Anglican). I have very quickly become a valued member of the congregation, as it's a tiny congregation and the majority of them are elderly or have special needs (so I am one of the few 'able bodied' people there) so I have been volunteering to help out around the church working in the garden etc. A couple of weeks ago, I had to finally bite the bullet and tell these moron missionaries that our meetings had to come to an end (which I did in the most tactful way possible). I thanked them for everything they'd done for me (without pointing the flaws I'd found in their religion or telling them that I'd joined a different church). The missionary friend I'd made was actually crying (bless her) and I've actually cried a lot since over having to say goodbye. to her .Since them, I wonder if, in a strange way, the true God intervened in my life, to send them to me to turn me back towards the TRUE Christ ?
Curiosity about god and what happens when we die are common to us all, their goal is to insert their framework for questioning and receiving answers, I'm glad you had a foundation to look back on when processing their claims, it could have gone very differently, their messages are deceitful to what they actually believe and positions their church has taken on all sorts of things, glad you knew better.
God can use everything for good, even the works of a missionary in a fake gospel's mission. As an Elder in the LDS church, i must say, missionaries are taught to be friendly, formal or even flirty if its convenient. But i hope its was real friendship. Bless you brother
@@danvan2683 yes! it's called lying for the Lord. Answering the questions that should have been asked that they have rehearsed answers for. Not necessarily answering the questions you ask.
welcome to knowledge of the deception the LDS church has. The JW church is not quite as decieved but still very misled. we need to love these people because these are the people satan goes after, not the atheists that dont care about knowing God at all
Darkking Ice with all due respect no !!!! We believe in free agency The will to act !! The devil wanted us to have no choices I grew up southern baptist and Mormon And I’m fifty years old I know the doctrine Yes we believe in progress of the human species But it’s not about being God , it’s about living with our families and Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father !!!
It's all about the context and the details. Satan declared that death would not be immanent when they partake of the fruit and that they would become like the gods knowing good and evil, and just a few verses later God Himself agrees with Satan and declares that they indeed will be doomed to die even though their death was not immanent, and that they did become as one of the Gods in knowing good and evil. you have to look at the whole context and not just the parts that you agree with. Lucifer's downfall was due to pride in usurping the power, while God teaches that those who will be the greatest will be the one who serves the most, that is the opposite of the way Lucifer tried to become as God, and that is why Lucifer was cast down. not because He desired to be like God, but the way He tried to go about getting there.
Unfortunately because the one that appeared in the burning bush claimed to be the Angel of the Lord, Jehovahs Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists believe that it was Michael that appeared
I disagree when they said it wasn't jesus who appeared to moses. Whenever we see the phrase; " the angel of the lord" is the preincarnate Christ. Jesus said that no one at any time has seen the father. Paul even says that no one has seen the father and nobody ever will. So I would disagree there, but great video. I love the lds people
It's hard to make an impact but it does happen, I grew up lds and have a biblical worldview now, but their entire structure for understanding the supernatural and scripture is an entirely different framework
Sorry to hear that you left! Yes, you really have to change the entire frame by which you read the scriptures to shift between, say, Reformed Theology or Evangelicalism and Mormonism. I believe, however, that the lens through with the LDS read them is much closer to the original theology as taught consistently throughout the OT, prior to the outside influences of Persian Zoroastrianism (which introduced the foreign concept of metaphysical monotheism), and Hellenic culture (which introduced ideas like the Absolute "Omnis," original sin, etc.) It's fascinating to see how much connection the "revolutionary" doctrine of Joseph Smith had to First Temple theology that we're only just beginning to understand better through archaeology. More than a coincidence, if you ask me!
@@danvan2683 There are a ton... An understanding of the council of the gods and divine feminine, a restoration of temple rites that the Bible does not discuss but which we know from archaeology were practiced, a belief in a pre-existence, a proper understanding of the first chapters of Genesis, and more. It's a huge topic, but there's so much great evidence that the LDS movement is truly grounded in the supernatural---whether you believe it was from God or not.
@@Aldrnari it sounds like you are beggining with stuff specific to your church and seeing what you expect to with that as a presupposition. I really care about the biblical narrative and lately I'm kinda a nerd when it comes to this historical reality, you are describing alot of separate issues, if you are interested I'd want to focus on one thing, this heavenly council is interesting, what exactly is it you feel is going on when we get descriptions of divine council's?
@@danvan2683 On the contrary, it is most often Christians who presuppose that their worldview is correct and project it onto the past---which is why unbiased non-Christian archaeologists most often interpret the evidence in a way that meshes with Mormonism rather than modern Christianity. Sure, the heavenly council is a pretty well-established concept. We know quite a bit about it because similar concepts occur in cultures neighboring Israel: Ugarit, Mesopotamia, and even Egypt. I'll give my explanation based on the scholarly view, rather than the LDS one, to be fair---but it meshes quite well with the cosmology Joseph presented. The Hebrews believed that the Father God El ruled as the Most High God among a plethora of lesser gods who were usually called the Bene Elohiym (Sons of God). According to the OT, after the events of the Tower of Babel, God divided up stewardship over the nations amongst these gods of the Council (see the Septuagint or Dead Sea versions of Deuteronomy 32:8---the Masoretic text was altered there). One of the gods in this council was named YHWH, and he is most often portrayed as a kind of storm god in the earliest Biblical passages (See Exodus 15). Also in Exodus 15 verse 11, we see Moses praising YHWH as the mightiest among all of the gods. YHWH was also given an inheritance, and that inheritance was the nation of Israel. They acknowledged that other nations were ruled by other gods, but YHWH was theirs, and they thought he was the best (this Henotheism is well-attested in the archaeological record---more on that later). In Psalm 82, we have a change: God steps forward to judge the gods which he has set over the nations, and he is displeased. He claims that they have judged unrighteously, and condemns them to death. The last verse in the chapter then gives us the key: It says that God (in this case, YHWH) will now be inheriting ALL of the Earth. The Most High Father still remains ultimately in charge, but he has given the whole Earth to YHWH. This belief eventually morphed into the Jewish rejection of Henotheism and evolution of Monotheism during about the 5th and 6th centuries BC. We know this evolution happened due to the archaeology, which shows that originally, El had a consort named Asherah and a son named Yehu (Yahweh), but eventually, El and Yehu became conflated, and Asherah was seen as the consort of Yehu instead of his mother. Eventually, Monotheism took over during the post-Exilic period of the Deuteronomists, and Asherah worship was discontinued, but there are thousands of shrines which have 3 thrones in them that attest to what I'm saying here (and I have a lot more evidence that this was what they actually believed that I can go over if you want, although it's hard to share in TH-cam comments). So now along comes Jesus in the NT, a former member of the Divine Council, who correctly identifies himself as the Divine I AM (YHWH), and yet who makes a sharp distinction between himself and God the Father ("why call ye me good? There is none good but God," There is one God, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, etc.) Note the distinction between God and "the Lord" in many passages. Because Jesus (YHWH) has inherited the whole Earth from his Father (see Hebrews 1) , Jesus is the Lord of the Earth, the Divine King, and we may become "co-heirs" with Christ (see Romans 8:16-17), just as the original members of the Divine Council were seen as co-heirs with YHWH in the OT. I could honestly go on, because so many little pieces fit when you begin to understand how the ancient Hebrews saw the gods (the need for the bizarre Trinity doctrine completely vanishes), but if you'd like to hone in on any specific point, feel free to let me know.
I think he can he just thinks mostly about the experiences and what he saw, But the truth is what he saw and believes is not from God but the masquerader of light who will perform miracles and deceive so many
Thank you kindly Apologia for your ongoing dedication to GOSPEL. May you continue to GO SPELL it out for others to understand and innerstand in application.
Great talk. I did have one thing, you said it was the Father calling from the bush. Exodus 3:2 says it was "The Angel of the Lord" who is God, and God's messenger, and far as I've always understood it, was the Word in his per-human eternal existence. I could be wrong, but just curious how you all interpret the text. Keep up the good work, and may our God and Savior Jesus Christ continue to bless you.
"Who is the angel of the Lord?" Answer: The precise identity of the “angel of the Lord” is not given in the Bible. However, there are many important “clues” to his identity. There are Old and New Testament references to “angels of the Lord,” “an angel of the Lord,” and “the angel of the Lord.” It seems when the definite article “the” is used, it is specifying a unique being, separate from the other angels. The angel of the Lord speaks as God, identifies Himself with God, and exercises the responsibilities of God (Genesis 16:7-12; 21:17-18; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2; Judges 2:1-4; 5:23; 6:11-24; 13:3-22; 2 Samuel 24:16; Zechariah 1:12; 3:1; 12:8). In several of these appearances, those who saw the angel of the Lord feared for their lives because they had “seen the Lord.” Therefore, it is clear that in at least some instances, the angel of the Lord is a theophany, an appearance of God in physical form. The appearances of the angel of the Lord cease after the incarnation of Christ. Angels are mentioned numerous times in the New Testament, but “the angel of the Lord” is never mentioned in the New Testament after the birth of Christ. There is some confusion regarding Matthew 28:2, where the KJV says “the angel of the Lord” descended from heaven and rolled the stone away from Jesus’ tomb. It is important to note that the original Greek has no article in front of angel; it could be “the angel” or “an angel,” but the article must be supplied by the translators. Other translations besides the KJV say it was “an angel,” which is the better wording. It is possible that appearances of the angel of the Lord were manifestations of Jesus before His incarnation. Jesus declared Himself to be existent “before Abraham” (John 8:58), so it is logical that He would be active and manifest in the world. Whatever the case, whether the angel of the Lord was a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ (Christophany) or an appearance of God the Father (theophany), it is highly likely that the phrase “the angel of the Lord” usually identifies a physical appearance of God www.gotquestions.org/angel-of-the-Lord.html
I'm pretty sure you all know this already, in a speech given by Joseph Smith at a funeral, he said he had done (Joseph) more for the kingdom then even Jesus Christ himself. You can read it online search King Follet discourse. The dead man's first name was King. And here's another fact they dont share too much, but you can find in the history of the church volume 3 or 4 cant remember , that the only way you'll get into the highest Kingdom is if Joseph Smith approves.
@@pauldunn7000 I'm sorry, it wasn't in the history of the church. It's in Journal of Discourses vol.7 pages 282-291. Brigham Young Sermon Joseph Smith's consent needed to enter Heaven. I hope this helps. You can actually read it online.
I wish I had the patience to discuss these things with Mormons and JW's. I find these debates fascinating, but I don't have the patience to do it myself.
My father in law had esophageal cancer. Less than 3% of people make it past 5 years if " healed". He died in less than 2. I do hope this man walks away from this with a heart to think about what he has heard. I do hope his heart and his mind change. I hope he finds himself worshipping the real God
For the little bit that I was listening to this questioning I greatly respected the gentleman asking most of the questions because he seems sincere and not attacking and trying to prove a point because the fact is none of us have died there for none of us really know for a fact what is true versus what is based on faith. I was raised a Mormon, let the Mormon church for several different reasons went to a non-denominational church bought a different Bible, this Christian Church offered to different Bibles and that was the first time I realized that you can put two Bible side-by-side and they are not word for word the same. You can read the exact same scripture in two different Bible's and the wording can be completely different, therefore makes more sense that people believe the Bible in which is being used in their religious belief why there is so much confusion as to what the bible really says because there is so much inconsistency from one Bible. I have the Kings James Bible the new church I went to use I believe it was something like the LV Bible and I have had other Christian people read scriptures out of the Bible and I will try to find that scripture and cannot find it or it is worded completely different. I like these kind of open conversations if we can have them respectfully and I'd like to hear how other people interpret the Bible or the words of the Bible but the fact is always the same, none of us have died and come back and been able to tell for a fact what is really going on in heaven and what happens after death so we have to go based on faith or what are specific religious background teaches us
So what about the parts of The Bible that weren't lost or left out like Isaiah 4310 and other places that say that you're not gonna become a God you can't God says what do you do with those verses
If Jesus was not seen as deity, or claiming to be deity, then WHY was He condemned and killed in such a horrible way? Why the public display? Why the mockery? I feel bad for people that don’t get this simple concept
Can someone help me out here? 0:44 the LDS man thanks him for clarifying LDS from Mormon? Is that something new now? I have never see that before in my life.
@@Parks179-h Honestly, I am not sure, but I am sure there is an article out there that would explain it. From what I understand, calling someone a Mormon has historically been rooted and attributed as a sort of slang or mocking way of identifying people who followed Joseph Smith.
In the last point the man was saying, where the guys in Acts were doing works with a different Gospel, the point is they were redirected to the TRUTH, the Way and everlasting life through our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ 🙏❤️
I love you guys from Apologia! I'm always studying you. Hey, if you guys are Baptist do you believe of the dwelling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues? ! Corinthians 12:8
I'm losing my mind over here. I need to talk to someone. Something is starting to make since to me right now and I can't put my finger on it.. How does one receive knowledge? Is Knowledge received from one man to another or does the Lord allow that knowledge to transfer? I only ask because I do a lot of teaching at work, and for some it's clear, but for others they never understand even if it's explained in a multitude of ways. What stops this data transfer?
Both the people must be willing and participating in order for information to properly transfer and it is on the back of the speaker to labor diligently to convey the information as accurately as possible, that being said on the note of does the Lord allow the transfer.. God is sovereign, if he does sometimes than he does, if not then he doesn't but whether he does or not is irrelevant because God is righteous and holy and if blocks someone from learning something or understanding, its only to help them with love and or correction. I am speculating ofcourse but I am sure God prevents some people from learning some of the Devils supernatural knowledge sometimes too tho, idk.
I heard Ray Comfort from “Living Waters” say that when people when they maybe use their act of kindness they receive upraise When god should be receiving it that is a gift from god and they shouldn’t use it in the manner that they do.
Exodus 3:2, “the angel of the Lord” and then 3:4, “Yahweh saw”. I think this is the preincarnate Jesus speaking to Moses. Jesus thinks this also when He speaks to the people recorded for us in John 8:58. Any thought?
"Only God could absorb the wrath of the Father" Please where do you get this? I think this would be a powerful witness, if I could understand where it comes from, if it's from scripture. God Bless 🙏 Thank you!!
Hallelujah! Praise the Lord because He is merciful towards to LDS church. I hope that they turn from the Mormon teachings and are set free by the truth.
Problem today is too much is based on our experiences, these are subjective, Objective truth is the word of GOD, most christians(lds/mormon church is NOT christian) are biblically illiterate. Excellent civil arguement to a lds man who never got offended of defensive ... GOD BLESS ALL of you out there and the baby !!! Sharing the Love of CHRIST is the ALL in ALL.
1 John 3 1-2 1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
God is extremely good and He will always be good but there will be a day when the Sky's will crack open and alllll eyes will see the glory of our God our Lord our savior Jesus Christ keep the faith bro's
Ok so first things first, I agree with these guys that the true Jesus is the only path to salvation. Also I admire that they are using their time to spread the gospel to lost people. That being said from 17:50 on this video gets a lil hard to watch. The Mormon guy was being very polite and had already given his contact info and expressed a desire to continue the conversation on a later date. The gentleman with the baseball cap on however seem to me very combative. Like he was there to score theological points more so than actually try to reach this guy. An example would be when his friend steps in to try to calm the situation by saying that people sometimes get mad but their intention is not to upset people, and before he could finish the gentleman in the cap says "Yea n we love that" in reference to people getting man. Worse I think is when he asked the guy if he knows what the word fiction means 😒. I'm just saying don't forget what the whole point of you guys being out there is. You're not just trying to win a debate.
I would ask you to go back a listen to that section, he actually said "we love them". Although I will say he does need to work on self monitoring skill, no one will be one over in a 20 minute debate. Even Paul says in 1st Pester 3:15 to be ready to make a defense for your hope and to do it with gentleness and respect
I believe God IS the Father, God IS the Holy Spirit, and God IS the Son they are All one and interchangeable, each serves a specific purpose but All are equal. I know you guys are coming at him with love i get it, and this man is deceived but i cant help but feel like he was a little bombarded, so many people talking to him. I’m not trying to be negative but I’m sorry it just seemed a lot coming at him at once.
But I think he knew it was in love but also when we are made to feel uncomfortable, it makes us question and that is what the truth always does. Like when God is wanting us to move forward in His purpose He makes our current situation uncomfortable. We only need to be willing to question as that is opening our hearts and ears to His instruction. But then when He has worked to move us closer to Him that situation that was unpleasantly uncomfortable is turned into joy and praise and we would do.it all again to be where we are at the end. I went through it with years of suicidal depression and now I k ow Him I'd live through it all again to be where I am. I think it's that we are obviously only able to see our present moment and that's where trust and faith come in. It can be hard for a while but He is always leading us in love, we just can't see it til we get there lol xx
Lea lea I totally agree with all you said. So many people were talking to this man and thats ok but I’m just looking at it from the angle that if someone doesn’t understand and all these Christians are coming at him though we know there intent this gentleman may not have known it. There is no harm in speaking the truth but maybe just a different approach of not having not so many people involved in talking to him.
I love the way that lovely gentle female voice asked the Mormon man: "How do you even believe Al these things that are taught in the LDS"??? That made me laugh because that's EXACTLY my question to LDS members. How can anyone Believe in a bunch of baloney....ha ha ha 😂
Three in One might refer to that God don't wanna go to Hawai,and Jesus wanna go to Indonesia,and The Holy Spirit wanna go to Australia. They are one of Heart and Mind.
To not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was saying Do not “ play God”. Do not make yourself the reference point to all things. Do not lean to your own understanding. The devils temptation was that you would be like God. It is envy against God just like satan did.
6:20 I respectfully disagree. I don't believe Moses was talking to the Father in the bush or any other time in the OT. It was Jesus, pre-incarnate Jesus, or, otherwise, we must submit that we cannot know for absolute certain. What I will say is that scripture supports the idea it COULD be pre-incarnate Jesus, but it simply doesn't support it possibly being the Father. The Holy Spirit? Probably not, but I'd argue that would be more plausible still than the Father.
Would someone be humble enough to help me on an issue? I am trying to debate my pastor who's apart of the Church of Christ cult. Basically, he believes baptism is necessary and you can lose salvation.
Palerity Three baptisms and the gospel! Three in One baptism. Equals one true baptism of the Holy Spirit given by Jesus Christ. All in one. Conviction to testimony of justification to rest! Three agree on earth. The blood), the Spirit, and the water! Jesus came through birth of flesh(water breaking at birth) and blood( flesh), and the fullness of the Spirit of God. the water baptism is a testimony of professing faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord! We know Jesus baptizes you in the Holy Ghost and fire. We know the Holy Spirit baptizes you in Jesus upon conviction. So the verse.. One Lord, One faith, One baptism, One God above us all, working in us all, and through us all. Is this verse contradicting what we have already seen stated? Or is all these one baptism! There is one Lord? Yes One God? Yes One Holy Spirit? Yes. God is one in all these and there is only One God. The gospel: By grace alone through your faith alone in Jesus alone, it is a gift of God. Not of works! No one will boast how they earned the salvation Only Jesus accomplished! God sent His unique( only begotten) Son Jesus in the flesh, to pay the ultimate debt of sin and did so unto death. He was despised and shamed and beaten and mocked and carried our cross doing so. He that never sinned carried our griefs and sorrow and shame and guilt and all our sins and iniquities were upon Him that never sinned. A righteous Savior paying the debt for the unrighteous. Even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. This should effect you!!! After three days in the tomb, that which was dead was exalted and glorified in life everlasting through resurrection by the Holy Spirit of God! Jesus accomplished victory over sin and death. Hallelujah! Jesus is Lord! It is truly as simple as believing in Jesus as enough to justify you through His blood and sanctify you through the Holy Spirit. We are saved by the power of the Holy Spirit, not our wisdom or works. By Gods mercy and grace! Faith to believe in Jesus requires: Jesus commanded us to repent and Be immersed in the name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus baptizes( immerses )you in the Holy Ghost and fire to purge your faith. Three immersions( baptisms)! Jesus and the Holy Spirit does it all, you must have faith in God to believe in Jesus according to Gods Word! First baptism of conviction and repentance: The Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and needing salvation only found in Jesus, so the Holy Spirit baptizes( immerses) you in Jesus through conviction of sins and fear of sinning against God and showing Jesus as your only hope in God to be forgiven and made complete. We confess our sins and iniquities and He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Believe in Jesus! Pray for the Holy Spirit to convict you! This is the first baptism...Holy Spirit baptizes you in Jesus. This is repentance! Jesus said repent and be baptized. Second baptism commanded by Jesus: Washing of the Word happens when you do what His word says. Repent and Get baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and you will be given the Holy Spirit. After receiving Jesus by faith you receive Gods grace. So we witness and testify that we too were dead in trespasses and sins but Jesus paid that debt of our sin, so we can be resurrected to live in our Spirit unto righteousness because of Jesus. We repented to turn to Jesus as our forever and daily redeemer to do so. So we follow His commandment to get water baptized to testify of this profession of faith in Jesus, and we are given the Holy Spirit. This is the command to repent ( turn from you and sin and the world and turn to to Jesus for salvation by redemption of His blood) and be baptized ( immersed) in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We did this by faith. Which means we believed Gods Word and did what it said, not what we thought. We want to be reconciled to God so we believe in Jesus for the atonement and do what He says to receive it, as we are able to do. Third baptism is purging of faith: Jesus then baptizes ( immerses)you in the Holy Spirit and fire. Trials and troubles will come upon you and we must keep our hope in Jesus through it all. The love of God will be shed abroad in your hearts to mature you in faith.Do it with joy that His grace is enough and this will build experiences of faith in just Jesus, not your circumstances or thoughts. This hope you will not be ashamed of that is like child like faith because the love of God will be shed abroad in your heart and give increase to the maturity of your new born Spirit. Strengthen and purge your faith of impurities going through fiery trials trusting in the Lord. Three baptisms that are the one baptism. The Holy Spirit and Jesus baptizes you and water baptism is your testimony of faith that you received Jesus. This is fundamentally one baptism. We have to be convicted to repent to Turn to Jesus for salvation by the Holy Spirit. This is the start of the baptism. We have to testify of our faith in Jesus by faith. The continuing baptism. Our faith has to be purged of impurities by Jesus baptizing you in trials( fire) and the Holy Spirit( truth). The fullness of the baptism. One baptism a total immersion by faith in Jesus being led by the Holy Spirit and sealed with the Holy Spirit to do so. See Gods love for you(Jesus), even demonstrated to you, is enough and your faith has to be purged of impurities. It is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus alone, that you are saved. It is easy to have faith when you talk or think about it but true faith is when all else comes against you and you still believe in Jesus. All those that come to Jesus are chastised to be purged in faith!! You are put in the trials of fire that test faith with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit keeping you in the truth through the love of God believed in your heart. Jesus is the demonstration of the love of God to us. Keep the faith rooted and grounded in Jesus and Love! Believe in Jesus.
@palerity - he believes baptism is necessary for what? salvation? Are you able to become a part of another church? Any church that teaches a person is made right with God by what they do, has lost the gospel.
@@michaelswain6125 They believe this is the way for salvation. Hear, faith, repentance, baptism then you're saved. They also believe you can lose your salvation. Thanks for your input
The guy with the red beard needs to come across a little more sympathetic. I know he has a passion to help people and I am grateful for that. But if your reading this I would just ask u be careful, and come across with concern, love, and just be careful with words. I am a Christian. But as a Christian watching this I am just giving some honest criticisms. Because we all wanna reach these people but they will only hear this and stand there listening if we don’t offend them
You have to understand something most of us if we're giving love to because we care about themwe're going to give God's truth and nothing but the truth along with the love that's what you have to have in God's truth will always offend you can't be worried about offending people now we're not talking about running them down making him feel small that's not what we're talking about the truth of Christ will always offend you can't be afraid of that you can't ever water down the gospel you got to give the truth at all times that's the problem with a lot of Christians nowadays, that's why you got the Joel olsteen's and some of the others they're so worried about offending people to try to get numbersthe gospel of the Bible does offend you have to give the truth man otherwise you won't end up in Hell God makes it very clear that he will spit you out of his mouth if you are lukewarm you have to give the truth and it is brutal you give it with love but you can't water it down
The way Mormons can shut someone down takes skill. You could say literally anything and they will look blankly into your eyes until you stop talking. For being such open-minded interpreters of the Bible, they don't venture outside their bubble of belief. No animosity here whatsoever ... just wow.
Hey guys, our team created a free resource for you based on this video. Go grab here and start engaging your Mormon neighbors with greater confidence. www.apologiastudios.com/mormon
It says a lot of this man to stand and listen and remain calm while 4 people come at him with things that are the truth but not what he thinks is true. May God deliver him from his false religion 🙏🏼💕
I'm amazed by the respectful interaction, the grace and love you showed this gentleman even when you disagree with him. May the Lord richly bless you
i realize I'm kinda randomly asking but do anyone know a good site to stream new tv shows online ?
I truly hope God will accept and save the mormons. But I just don't see how it can be so. Such great people, but so blasphemous.
Former LDS here. Thank you and praise God for those trying to share the Biblical gospel in love to our LDS friends. God is opening hearts and eyes to the truth.
Former Methodist here, you may thanked your 3 personality in 1 being god as i did before. But that doesn't make any change. You still don't understand the bible, Amen.
@Saved by his grace *G2G*
You and the mormons has a different god. They are praying for your souls too, so that you will leave your lunatic god, i bet they did.!!!
Praise God!
Amen! I am a former Mormon.
@@RachelParker-1977
Amen, i am a former Methodist and soon to join the Mormons.
What a sweet man! I can tell he meant well with his beliefs and I truly hope this wonderful group of people touched his heart in a unique way.
The sincerity in these men and this woman are amazing
Love your patience man! You are bleeding the truth of Jesus and I love it
Excellent content guys! Praise Jesus Christ for the work He’s putting into your hands guys. May He keep filling you all with determination and perseverance.
Yes...
We used to have the missionaries over when I was young and they were such good people and I didn't know Jesus Christ and what he did for me and I still fill unworthy of his sacrifice he did for me but the HOLY SPIRIT laid His hand on my heart after my daughter's death in my worst time ever and I was crying out to God and saying WHY!? And I felt a hand on my heart and I was filled with a Love that is not of this Earth and a rush of un earthly LOVE SURGED THROUGH MY BODY AND OUT OF MY FINGERS AND TOES and I was given discernment and could see false religion and new my Devine input who was speaking the Word and found most religious groups have added man's own word with the Word so Jesus bless your work and I know in my heart that you speak God's Truth and not a watered down version for greed or to accommodate for the people sake.
William Ringler I feel for you loosing your Daughter. I hope that Jesus hods you in his arms for comfort. I lost my Son in 2012 and lost my Daughter in the end of December 2018. I’m glad this time I have my Church family to get us through it. God Bless Sir
I love that old guys easy going demeanor, and furthermore these young folks did a great job sharing the gospel!
God healed him for a moment like this. God does not want to lose him and wants him to listen
Ryan
Why can't this god just talk to him one on one?
hawkerdoo He can if He wanted to but the Bible says only Faith can please God. He moves us to places in our lives where we can exercise faith. This is how He operated throughout the Old Testament
@@bentonvillefamily
This is what I hear when you put it like that. This god can but won't destroy a fundamental wrong, then hold you hostage to faith. It doesn't sound like this god is very good at doing its job.
@@hawkerdoo God is powerful to save all His elect by whatever means he chooses.
@@Firebert79TA
So this god picks the ones he likes?
9:20 This is what I told a family member and he told me that I was wrong. When I was in the Mormon temple years ago, I heard a female say my name. I was so certain that it was the person who I was doing the temple ordinance for. I didn't test the spirits as the Word says and I now know that it was an unclean spirit, even though it seemed benign. Praise Jesus for saving me from these lies. There shouldn't be any denominations. There ought to be the Church of Jesus Christ that preaches the Word only.
God bless him! He’s very sweet and I pray he comes to know the true word of God.
Love this! Thank you for sharing it.
God bless you guys. But I recommend you do this 1 on 1. Can come off as too many ppl to have to listen and respond to. Still amazing work you guys do.
"Our experiences don't determine truth, God's word determines truth" 110%
Wrong,
God's word is the truth but you can determine that truth by your experiences, read and apply what God wants you to do.
Joey Feliciano “God’s word is the truth” and then you say you can determine “that truth” as if it’s subjective. That doesn’t make any sense.
@@chawkz
I only quoted the scripture in a different way, but that doesn't includes the atheists and those who do not believe Jesus is God, because stupid atheists have their own truth.LOL
John 8:31-32
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
If that doesn't mean any sense to you, then i am sorry for you because you can't understand what i am saying.
God's word doesn't determine anything, it is those who believe in that God can determine if what they read is true or the truth according to their experiences.
(Hayssst, why am i explaining to an idiot again?????)
@@joeyfeliciano9199 Calling someone an idiot sir is showing your lack of respect, care, and dignity, by which you need to repent and believe the Gospel.
"I only quoted the scripture in a different way." Nope, you're twisting Scripture out of context to make your case, which is arbitrary. Let's see what God says.
You said "God's word doesn't determine anything, it is those who believe in that God can determine if what they read is true or the truth according to their experiences."
Nope, not true. Our experiences don't determine truth, God's word determines truth. John 17:17 "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." This verse shows that God's Word IS truth.
Now, to the verse you quoted and twisted out of context; John 8:31-32 "To the Jews who had believed Him, Jesus said, If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." This verse is saying that if you read The Word of The Living God, and you are obedient to His teachings, you will know the Truth (referencing the Bible) and it will be set you free (receive the gift of Salvation).
@@palerity6320
Are you fucking idiot? (i am asking you)
You said that John 17:17 shows that Gods word is truth.LOL
What DID i say again? God's word is what? And what did you say then? (Haysst am i talking to an idiot again?)
To the verses i gave which is from the original KJV that you can download in to your computer easily, and which i do not know what version you use, John 8:31-32 "To the Jews who had believed Him, Jesus said, If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." Thise verses shows that if you read the word of God, and you are obedient to His teachings, you will know the truth. (not referring to the bible, because bible contains the old testament too, you stupid!, and no christian do the burn offering after he ascend to heaven). You are the one twisting the scripture like what apologia men do.LOL
Jesus commanded all to be baptized and to baptize people who believe in His teachings in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit! And be perfect even as the Father which is in Heaven, who is perfect. And by obeying what He say you will know if what He said is true if it works to you. But if not i don't think you can say that it is true.LOL
This guy just needs time to figure it out for himself. You can't change your whole world view on your own in 5 mins :).
This video is 20 minutes long, but like the other response said the apostle Paul was transformed in an instant. Also no one can make anyone change, only those who accept Christ through the Holy Spirit.
But the Lord can do that in less than 5minutes
Yeah if it's God's will then if course you can be changed in an instant. Through God all things are possible. But generally he changes your heart, not your views. Your views will come from your change of heart.
Matt Bell So isn’t a heart transformation as change of mind? Meaning a change of views? Only then, by fruit and testing of Spirit we could see the change right?
Matt
That's right!
L O V E this so much. So much love from all of you, so beautiful. Thank you for taking the time to spend with this deceived Mormon. When he talked about "seeing" things and things of the temple it creeps me out. If only they knew it's not of God. Sending so much love and prayers your way. Super exciting he wants to meet up again. What translation are you reading from?
Encourages me to go talk with my Mormon friends again!
I love these videos. Scripture trumps feelings and experiences
Can we get an update on the second meeting with this guy?
What a sweet man. I hope his heart was a little more open to your prof.
The devil keeps on revealing himself as an angel of light!
Andrew Straight Preaching Fire! Good Job Brother!
Mormons are not like us ordinary sinners. When we come to faith, our lives change, but we are unlikely to lose our families, friends, jobs or business connections, etc over it. For them, those things are real possibilities. Their entire lives are wrapped up in their church, all of their social lives, their entire families, often everything they've ever known their whole lives. Think about that for a minute, how hard it would be to just totally uproot your entire life, all you know. I have great admiration for those who do walk away, I'm grateful for my Christian upbringing, it was so much easier for me.
I walked away from my family, friends and business life after I got saved. Not in one instance but progressively over the course of a few years.
It is difficult, but 100%?worth it.
Seek and ye shall find.
I have two brothers that are athiest, everyone else on my wife's side and mine are active lds, they feel I've lost my mind and been led astray accepting the bible and it's narrative, I live in Utah county, I love these conversations, I feel armed to engage error but it's sad the justification that holds their worldview together, often it leads to unbelief when it crumbles, there's no foundation to fall back on.
Luke 9:23-26 King James Version (KJV)
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
When i leave Methodist, my relatives and friends are fine with that. But when mormons come to my house, they are ready to turn their back. What happened to the world????
I pray this man comes to salvation through Christ!
What a wonderful message, from you guys be blessed.
Good conversation but here's something I feel would be helpful: You should keep the convos 1 on 1. Your support crew should avoid commenting (unless specifically addressed by the other side) and focus more on holding space for the convo. This helps keep things on point and prevents someone from feeling "ganged up on" which can stifle the ministry.
Yeah right, try the mormon's strategy, i think it's a better one. I've heard that they baptize morethan the apologia men can.LOL
@amy w
What's save means?
What salvation really means to you? Do you think apologia has that while the Mormons don't?
@amy w
What salvation really means to you? Do you think apologia has that while the Mormons don't?
@amy w
You can quote me all verses in the Bible that says Salvation blah blah blah, but what does it really mean to you????
@amy w
So that's what you believe, owkey. If that is salvation, then Mormons Jesus saved a lot than those apologia men.LOL
Thanks for sharing the REAL GOSPEL TO THIS MAN!!
I recently had about a dozen meetings with a pair of Mormon missionaries that, in a strange way, turned me strongly back towards 'conventional' Christianity, despite being a 'non believer' for over 40 years. I was brought up Christian (though my parents weren't particularly 'devout', and I think viewed the church more as serving a 'social' function). At around the age of 10 my faith just faded away, and we stopped going to church. For the last 4 decades, I've called myself an 'agnostic' (I was never comfortable with the term 'atheist', as I DID believe there might be SOME kind of 'God', but I wasn't sure WHO that God was).
Four years ago, I suffered some terrible traumas that threw me into an EXTREME depression. Then, about 3 months ago, I was sitting in the park when I was approached by a pair of Mormon missionaries. One of them in particular I can honestly describe as probably the nicest and most KIND person I've ever met, and we had this instant BOND like true best friends. At our first meeting we prayed together (though in retrospect, I think I was praying to the true God of the Bible, while they were praying to a false God). Immediately afterwards I felt uplifted, and I kept meeting with them because it was really helping me in coming out of my depression.
Having learned the power of prayer, I then built prayer (on my own) into my daily life. I found it incredibly powerful, and felt I was (and still am) connecting with the TRUE God of the Bible. I also bought myself a Bible, and am devouring it, learning so much. After our first meeting, I started researching Mormonism on the internet, and very quickly realised it was utter bullshit and completely unbiblical. However, I continued to meet with them, because I really had formed a deep BOND with one of them, and they were so helpful in lifting me out of the terrible depression I'd been stuck in.
In the interim, I joined a 'proper' church (I am in the U.K and the church I joined is Anglican). I have very quickly become a valued member of the congregation, as it's a tiny congregation and the majority of them are elderly or have special needs (so I am one of the few 'able bodied' people there) so I have been volunteering to help out around the church working in the garden etc.
A couple of weeks ago, I had to finally bite the bullet and tell these moron missionaries that our meetings had to come to an end (which I did in the most tactful way possible). I thanked them for everything they'd done for me (without pointing the flaws I'd found in their religion or telling them that I'd joined a different church). The missionary friend I'd made was actually crying (bless her) and I've actually cried a lot since over having to say goodbye. to her
.Since them, I wonder if, in a strange way, the true God intervened in my life, to send them to me to turn me back towards the TRUE Christ ?
Curiosity about god and what happens when we die are common to us all, their goal is to insert their framework for questioning and receiving answers, I'm glad you had a foundation to look back on when processing their claims, it could have gone very differently, their messages are deceitful to what they actually believe and positions their church has taken on all sorts of things, glad you knew better.
Danvan2 Ruth it’s sounds like you have all the answers ?
@@j.huffhumble4281 if your lds I 've been through the rabbit hole
God can use everything for good, even the works of a missionary in a fake gospel's mission.
As an Elder in the LDS church, i must say, missionaries are taught to be friendly, formal or even flirty if its convenient. But i hope its was real friendship.
Bless you brother
@@danvan2683 yes! it's called lying for the Lord. Answering the questions that should have been asked that they have rehearsed answers for. Not necessarily answering the questions you ask.
Good job, way to “speak the truth with love”.
LDS believe they will become like God? isn't this what the devil wanted when he was cast down.
yes
welcome to knowledge of the deception the LDS church has. The JW church is not quite as decieved but still very misled. we need to love these people because these are the people satan goes after, not the atheists that dont care about knowing God at all
Yes very true
Darkking Ice with all due respect no !!!!
We believe in free agency
The will to act !!
The devil wanted us to have no choices
I grew up southern baptist and Mormon
And I’m fifty years old
I know the doctrine
Yes we believe in progress of the human species
But it’s not about being God , it’s about living with our families and Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father !!!
It's all about the context and the details. Satan declared that death would not be immanent when they partake of the fruit and that they would become like the gods knowing good and evil, and just a few verses later God Himself agrees with Satan and declares that they indeed will be doomed to die even though their death was not immanent, and that they did become as one of the Gods in knowing good and evil. you have to look at the whole context and not just the parts that you agree with. Lucifer's downfall was due to pride in usurping the power, while God teaches that those who will be the greatest will be the one who serves the most, that is the opposite of the way Lucifer tried to become as God, and that is why Lucifer was cast down. not because He desired to be like God, but the way He tried to go about getting there.
Good content brother. God bless
Let him talk! He’ll stumble on something quickly.
Praying. Great convo!
I do have to disagree in one point. Jesus Himself was the one in the burning bush. Jesus is also referred as the brightness of His Glory.
Unfortunately because the one that appeared in the burning bush claimed to be the Angel of the Lord, Jehovahs Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists believe that it was Michael that appeared
I disagree when they said it wasn't jesus who appeared to moses. Whenever we see the phrase; " the angel of the lord" is the preincarnate Christ. Jesus said that no one at any time has seen the father. Paul even says that no one has seen the father and nobody ever will. So I would disagree there, but great video. I love the lds people
This is so wonderful, I only pray that God helps me to spread the Gospel the Truth..
Beautiful 🙌🏾 the seed was planted 🙏🏾
Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.” Acts 17:32
The guy with the sombrero knows about his religions as much as i know how to make a rocket.
Woooooioooeeeee these boys are on fire!!!!! Praise God this is amazing witnessing
Yeah,They will surely go straight to the hell fire!!! LOL
Great conversation
It's hard to make an impact but it does happen, I grew up lds and have a biblical worldview now, but their entire structure for understanding the supernatural and scripture is an entirely different framework
Sorry to hear that you left! Yes, you really have to change the entire frame by which you read the scriptures to shift between, say, Reformed Theology or Evangelicalism and Mormonism. I believe, however, that the lens through with the LDS read them is much closer to the original theology as taught consistently throughout the OT, prior to the outside influences of Persian Zoroastrianism (which introduced the foreign concept of metaphysical monotheism), and Hellenic culture (which introduced ideas like the Absolute "Omnis," original sin, etc.) It's fascinating to see how much connection the "revolutionary" doctrine of Joseph Smith had to First Temple theology that we're only just beginning to understand better through archaeology. More than a coincidence, if you ask me!
@@Aldrnari more specifically what connections are you making between first temple judaism and Smith?
@@danvan2683 There are a ton... An understanding of the council of the gods and divine feminine, a restoration of temple rites that the Bible does not discuss but which we know from archaeology were practiced, a belief in a pre-existence, a proper understanding of the first chapters of Genesis, and more. It's a huge topic, but there's so much great evidence that the LDS movement is truly grounded in the supernatural---whether you believe it was from God or not.
@@Aldrnari it sounds like you are beggining with stuff specific to your church and seeing what you expect to with that as a presupposition.
I really care about the biblical narrative and lately I'm kinda a nerd when it comes to this historical reality, you are describing alot of separate issues, if you are interested I'd want to focus on one thing, this heavenly council is interesting, what exactly is it you feel is going on when we get descriptions of divine council's?
@@danvan2683 On the contrary, it is most often Christians who presuppose that their worldview is correct and project it onto the past---which is why unbiased non-Christian archaeologists most often interpret the evidence in a way that meshes with Mormonism rather than modern Christianity.
Sure, the heavenly council is a pretty well-established concept. We know quite a bit about it because similar concepts occur in cultures neighboring Israel: Ugarit, Mesopotamia, and even Egypt. I'll give my explanation based on the scholarly view, rather than the LDS one, to be fair---but it meshes quite well with the cosmology Joseph presented.
The Hebrews believed that the Father God El ruled as the Most High God among a plethora of lesser gods who were usually called the Bene Elohiym (Sons of God). According to the OT, after the events of the Tower of Babel, God divided up stewardship over the nations amongst these gods of the Council (see the Septuagint or Dead Sea versions of Deuteronomy 32:8---the Masoretic text was altered there).
One of the gods in this council was named YHWH, and he is most often portrayed as a kind of storm god in the earliest Biblical passages (See Exodus 15). Also in Exodus 15 verse 11, we see Moses praising YHWH as the mightiest among all of the gods. YHWH was also given an inheritance, and that inheritance was the nation of Israel. They acknowledged that other nations were ruled by other gods, but YHWH was theirs, and they thought he was the best (this Henotheism is well-attested in the archaeological record---more on that later).
In Psalm 82, we have a change: God steps forward to judge the gods which he has set over the nations, and he is displeased. He claims that they have judged unrighteously, and condemns them to death. The last verse in the chapter then gives us the key: It says that God (in this case, YHWH) will now be inheriting ALL of the Earth. The Most High Father still remains ultimately in charge, but he has given the whole Earth to YHWH. This belief eventually morphed into the Jewish rejection of Henotheism and evolution of Monotheism during about the 5th and 6th centuries BC.
We know this evolution happened due to the archaeology, which shows that originally, El had a consort named Asherah and a son named Yehu (Yahweh), but eventually, El and Yehu became conflated, and Asherah was seen as the consort of Yehu instead of his mother. Eventually, Monotheism took over during the post-Exilic period of the Deuteronomists, and Asherah worship was discontinued, but there are thousands of shrines which have 3 thrones in them that attest to what I'm saying here (and I have a lot more evidence that this was what they actually believed that I can go over if you want, although it's hard to share in TH-cam comments).
So now along comes Jesus in the NT, a former member of the Divine Council, who correctly identifies himself as the Divine I AM (YHWH), and yet who makes a sharp distinction between himself and God the Father ("why call ye me good? There is none good but God," There is one God, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, etc.) Note the distinction between God and "the Lord" in many passages. Because Jesus (YHWH) has inherited the whole Earth from his Father (see Hebrews 1) , Jesus is the Lord of the Earth, the Divine King, and we may become "co-heirs" with Christ (see Romans 8:16-17), just as the original members of the Divine Council were seen as co-heirs with YHWH in the OT.
I could honestly go on, because so many little pieces fit when you begin to understand how the ancient Hebrews saw the gods (the need for the bizarre Trinity doctrine completely vanishes), but if you'd like to hone in on any specific point, feel free to let me know.
Does anyone know where I can learn to evangelize like these Awesome Brothers?
I think that this gentleman can he won back from Mormanism.
Into another form of moron-ism
Yes
No you can't, he is from christian mimics before he became LDS.
I think he can he just thinks mostly about the experiences and what he saw, But the truth is what he saw and believes is not from God but the masquerader of light who will perform miracles and deceive so many
Hopefully not. He's not the most knowledgeable LDS guy I've seen, but he's in the right place, bless him.
Thank you kindly Apologia for your ongoing dedication to GOSPEL. May you continue to GO SPELL it out for others to understand and innerstand in application.
This LDS man seems so sweet! I hope he hears the message.
Excellent interaction
Great talk. I did have one thing, you said it was the Father calling from the bush. Exodus 3:2 says it was "The Angel of the Lord" who is God, and God's messenger, and far as I've always understood it, was the Word in his per-human eternal existence. I could be wrong, but just curious how you all interpret the text. Keep up the good work, and may our God and Savior Jesus Christ continue to bless you.
"Who is the angel of the Lord?"
Answer: The precise identity of the “angel of the Lord” is not given in the Bible. However, there are many important “clues” to his identity. There are Old and New Testament references to “angels of the Lord,” “an angel of the Lord,” and “the angel of the Lord.” It seems when the definite article “the” is used, it is specifying a unique being, separate from the other angels. The angel of the Lord speaks as God, identifies Himself with God, and exercises the responsibilities of God (Genesis 16:7-12; 21:17-18; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2; Judges 2:1-4; 5:23; 6:11-24; 13:3-22; 2 Samuel 24:16; Zechariah 1:12; 3:1; 12:8). In several of these appearances, those who saw the angel of the Lord feared for their lives because they had “seen the Lord.” Therefore, it is clear that in at least some instances, the angel of the Lord is a theophany, an appearance of God in physical form.
The appearances of the angel of the Lord cease after the incarnation of Christ. Angels are mentioned numerous times in the New Testament, but “the angel of the Lord” is never mentioned in the New Testament after the birth of Christ. There is some confusion regarding Matthew 28:2, where the KJV says “the angel of the Lord” descended from heaven and rolled the stone away from Jesus’ tomb. It is important to note that the original Greek has no article in front of angel; it could be “the angel” or “an angel,” but the article must be supplied by the translators. Other translations besides the KJV say it was “an angel,” which is the better wording.
It is possible that appearances of the angel of the Lord were manifestations of Jesus before His incarnation. Jesus declared Himself to be existent “before Abraham” (John 8:58), so it is logical that He would be active and manifest in the world. Whatever the case, whether the angel of the Lord was a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ (Christophany) or an appearance of God the Father (theophany), it is highly likely that the phrase “the angel of the Lord” usually identifies a physical appearance of God
www.gotquestions.org/angel-of-the-Lord.html
I'm pretty sure you all know this already, in a speech given by Joseph Smith at a funeral, he said he had done (Joseph) more for the kingdom then even Jesus Christ himself. You can read it online search King Follet discourse. The dead man's first name was King. And here's another fact they dont share too much, but you can find in the history of the church volume 3 or 4 cant remember , that the only way you'll get into the highest Kingdom is if Joseph Smith approves.
Can you help me find it?
I have out volume 3&4 I know the quote by Brigham young, but didn't know it was in the history of the church
@@pauldunn7000 I'm sorry, it wasn't in the history of the church. It's in Journal of Discourses vol.7 pages 282-291. Brigham Young Sermon Joseph Smith's consent needed to enter Heaven. I hope this helps. You can actually read it online.
This is a false statement.
I wish I had the patience to discuss these things with Mormons and JW's. I find these debates fascinating, but I don't have the patience to do it myself.
My father in law had esophageal cancer. Less than 3% of people make it past 5 years if " healed". He died in less than 2. I do hope this man walks away from this with a heart to think about what he has heard. I do hope his heart and his mind change. I hope he finds himself worshipping the real God
Brianne Hill sorry for your Loss
Thank you for your kind response.
Your father in law knows now who is the real God, but believe it or not, you can't convince me that you know who is the real God!
For the little bit that I was listening to this questioning I greatly respected the gentleman asking most of the questions because he seems sincere and not attacking and trying to prove a point because the fact is none of us have died there for none of us really know for a fact what is true versus what is based on faith. I was raised a Mormon, let the Mormon church for several different reasons went to a non-denominational church bought a different Bible, this Christian Church offered to different Bibles and that was the first time I realized that you can put two Bible side-by-side and they are not word for word the same. You can read the exact same scripture in two different Bible's and the wording can be completely different, therefore makes more sense that people believe the Bible in which is being used in their religious belief why there is so much confusion as to what the bible really says because there is so much inconsistency from one Bible. I have the Kings James Bible the new church I went to use I believe it was something like the LV Bible and I have had other Christian people read scriptures out of the Bible and I will try to find that scripture and cannot find it or it is worded completely different. I like these kind of open conversations if we can have them respectfully and I'd like to hear how other people interpret the Bible or the words of the Bible but the fact is always the same, none of us have died and come back and been able to tell for a fact what is really going on in heaven and what happens after death so we have to go based on faith or what are specific religious background teaches us
I love the respect shown and truth shared in love here (Eph. 4:14-16). Well done.
So what about the parts of The Bible that weren't lost or left out like Isaiah 4310 and other places that say that you're not gonna become a God you can't God says what do you do with those verses
Please what happened when you spoke to him again.
If Jesus was not seen as deity, or claiming to be deity, then WHY was He condemned and killed in such a horrible way? Why the public display? Why the mockery? I feel bad for people that don’t get this simple concept
Beautiful
Can someone help me out here? 0:44 the LDS man thanks him for clarifying LDS from Mormon? Is that something new now? I have never see that before in my life.
Yea they changed their website and now want to be called LDS not mormon anymore
@@michaelswain6125 interesting. Did they say why they chose to do that, or was it like a "new revelation" type thing?
@@Parks179-h Honestly, I am not sure, but I am sure there is an article out there that would explain it. From what I understand, calling someone a Mormon has historically been rooted and attributed as a sort of slang or mocking way of identifying people who followed Joseph Smith.
I feel so bad for this man he lost in this false gospel i pray he sets free from it and come to the true Christ.
Love seeing the kids there
love this
Praise God!
In the last point the man was saying, where the guys in Acts were doing works with a different Gospel, the point is they were redirected to the TRUTH, the Way and everlasting life through our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ 🙏❤️
Amen Brothers 💯
I love you guys from Apologia! I'm always studying you. Hey, if you guys are Baptist do you believe of the dwelling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues? ! Corinthians 12:8
Well done
What ward is this?
I'm losing my mind over here. I need to talk to someone. Something is starting to make since to me right now and I can't put my finger on it.. How does one receive knowledge? Is Knowledge received from one man to another or does the Lord allow that knowledge to transfer? I only ask because I do a lot of teaching at work, and for some it's clear, but for others they never understand even if it's explained in a multitude of ways. What stops this data transfer?
Both the people must be willing and participating in order for information to properly transfer and it is on the back of the speaker to labor diligently to convey the information as accurately as possible, that being said on the note of does the Lord allow the transfer..
God is sovereign, if he does sometimes than he does, if not then he doesn't but whether he does or not is irrelevant because God is righteous and holy and if blocks someone from learning something or understanding, its only to help them with love and or correction. I am speculating ofcourse but I am sure God prevents some people from learning some of the Devils supernatural knowledge sometimes too tho, idk.
God calls who He will, we plant seeds.
First of all...FIRST commandment... the rest is history....for example.
I heard Ray Comfort from “Living Waters” say that when people when they maybe use their act of kindness they receive upraise When god should be receiving it that is a gift from god and they shouldn’t use it in the manner that they do.
Exodus 3:2, “the angel of the Lord” and then 3:4, “Yahweh saw”. I think this is the preincarnate Jesus speaking to Moses. Jesus thinks this also when He speaks to the people recorded for us in John 8:58. Any thought?
Now we know where Alan Moore got the idea for Dr. Manhattan
"Only God could absorb the wrath of the Father"
Please where do you get this?
I think this would be a powerful witness, if I could understand where it comes from, if it's from scripture.
God Bless 🙏
Thank you!!
Wow wow wow. Watching 4 people debating imaginary things is fascinating,
You know that God exists, but suppress this knowledge with your sin.
@@OracleOfSages you know god doesn’t exist and cannot live without an imaginary friend. Now how do we tell who’s right me or you?
What’s his name?
Hallelujah! Praise the Lord because He is merciful towards to LDS church. I hope that they turn from the Mormon teachings and are set free by the truth.
WTF!
What truth is that??? Can you explain it?
Funny, I had the guy pegged as a cop from the start. The Texas DPS style cowboy hat must've tipped me off.
Do y'all sell tracts?
shop.apologiastudios.com/collections/frontpage/products/the-gospel-for-mormons
Problem today is too much is based on our experiences, these are subjective, Objective truth is the word of GOD, most christians(lds/mormon church is NOT christian) are biblically illiterate. Excellent civil arguement to a lds man who never got offended of defensive ... GOD BLESS ALL of you out there and the baby !!! Sharing the Love of CHRIST is the ALL in ALL.
1 John 3 1-2
1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
He is in there because he knows what he is there for.
Yup, and no matter what, they can't convince the man to worship a 1 being god with 3 personality. LOL
God is extremely good and He will always be good but there will be a day when the Sky's will crack open and alllll eyes will see the glory of our God our Lord our savior Jesus Christ keep the faith bro's
Ok so first things first, I agree with these guys that the true Jesus is the only path to salvation. Also I admire that they are using their time to spread the gospel to lost people. That being said from 17:50 on this video gets a lil hard to watch. The Mormon guy was being very polite and had already given his contact info and expressed a desire to continue the conversation on a later date. The gentleman with the baseball cap on however seem to me very combative. Like he was there to score theological points more so than actually try to reach this guy. An example would be when his friend steps in to try to calm the situation by saying that people sometimes get mad but their intention is not to upset people, and before he could finish the gentleman in the cap says "Yea n we love that" in reference to people getting man. Worse I think is when he asked the guy if he knows what the word fiction means 😒. I'm just saying don't forget what the whole point of you guys being out there is. You're not just trying to win a debate.
I would ask you to go back a listen to that section, he actually said "we love them". Although I will say he does need to work on self monitoring skill, no one will be one over in a 20 minute debate. Even Paul says in 1st Pester 3:15 to be ready to make a defense for your hope and to do it with gentleness and respect
Telling someone that what he believe is false using your own belief is not good. You just only pissing them off.
The man may not have had another week. Luke 12:20 -"But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee..."
I agree.. not saying it wasn't done with good intentions but the one guy came off a little too strong.. sometimes that is the reason it backfires..
We shall have all things, that the father hath! We are truly promised this?,
Just my opinion/ God bless.
Moira
From England.
Who is that Father? JESUS????
🔥
My view is that one false system is talking to another false system. Only the system wins not the One.
I believe God IS the Father, God IS the Holy Spirit, and God IS the Son they are All one and interchangeable, each serves a specific purpose but All are equal. I know you guys are coming at him with love i get it, and this man is deceived but i cant help but feel like he was a little bombarded, so many people talking to him. I’m not trying to be negative but I’m sorry it just seemed a lot coming at him at once.
But I think he knew it was in love but also when we are made to feel uncomfortable, it makes us question and that is what the truth always does. Like when God is wanting us to move forward in His purpose He makes our current situation uncomfortable. We only need to be willing to question as that is opening our hearts and ears to His instruction. But then when He has worked to move us closer to Him that situation that was unpleasantly uncomfortable is turned into joy and praise and we would do.it all again to be where we are at the end. I went through it with years of suicidal depression and now I k ow Him I'd live through it all again to be where I am. I think it's that we are obviously only able to see our present moment and that's where trust and faith come in. It can be hard for a while but He is always leading us in love, we just can't see it til we get there lol xx
Lea lea I totally agree with all you said. So many people were talking to this man and thats ok but I’m just looking at it from the angle that if someone doesn’t understand and all these Christians are coming at him though we know there intent this gentleman may not have known it. There is no harm in speaking the truth but maybe just a different approach of not having not so many people involved in talking to him.
Looks like two dudes debating the technical aspects of the Harry Potter books.
I was rooting for him to get saved was hoping
I love the way that lovely gentle female voice asked the Mormon man: "How do you even believe Al these things that are taught in the LDS"???
That made me laugh because that's EXACTLY my question to LDS members. How can anyone Believe in a bunch of baloney....ha ha ha 😂
I want his hat.
Three in One might refer to that God don't wanna go to Hawai,and Jesus wanna go to Indonesia,and The Holy Spirit wanna go to Australia. They are one of Heart and Mind.
To not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was saying Do not “ play God”. Do not make yourself the reference point to all things. Do not lean to your own understanding. The devils temptation was that you would be like God. It is envy against God just like satan did.
6:20 I respectfully disagree. I don't believe Moses was talking to the Father in the bush or any other time in the OT. It was Jesus, pre-incarnate Jesus, or, otherwise, we must submit that we cannot know for absolute certain. What I will say is that scripture supports the idea it COULD be pre-incarnate Jesus, but it simply doesn't support it possibly being the Father. The Holy Spirit? Probably not, but I'd argue that would be more plausible still than the Father.
Let the man talk... geez
He is wrong though, his Mormonism had been questioned and exposed
Obviously
Christ King Jesus The Word that became Flesh ...
Would someone be humble enough to help me on an issue? I am trying to debate my pastor who's apart of the Church of Christ cult. Basically, he believes baptism is necessary and you can lose salvation.
Palerity Three baptisms and the gospel!
Three in One baptism. Equals one true baptism of the Holy Spirit given by Jesus Christ. All in one. Conviction to testimony of justification to rest!
Three agree on earth. The blood), the Spirit, and the water! Jesus came through birth of flesh(water breaking at birth) and blood( flesh), and the fullness of the Spirit of God.
the water baptism is a testimony of professing faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord!
We know Jesus baptizes you in the Holy Ghost and fire.
We know the Holy Spirit baptizes you in Jesus upon conviction.
So the verse.. One Lord, One faith, One baptism, One God above us all, working in us all, and through us all. Is this verse contradicting what we have already seen stated? Or is all these one baptism! There is one Lord? Yes One God? Yes One Holy Spirit? Yes. God is one in all these and there is only One God.
The gospel:
By grace alone through your faith alone in Jesus alone, it is a gift of God. Not of works! No one will boast how they earned the salvation Only Jesus accomplished!
God sent His unique( only begotten) Son Jesus in the flesh, to pay the ultimate debt of sin and did so unto death. He was despised and shamed and beaten and mocked and carried our cross doing so. He that never sinned carried our griefs and sorrow and shame and guilt and all our sins and iniquities were upon Him that never sinned. A righteous Savior paying the debt for the unrighteous. Even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. This should effect you!!!
After three days in the tomb, that which was dead was exalted and glorified in life everlasting through resurrection by the Holy Spirit of God! Jesus accomplished victory over sin and death. Hallelujah! Jesus is Lord!
It is truly as simple as believing in Jesus as enough to justify you through His blood and sanctify you through the Holy Spirit. We are saved by the power of the Holy Spirit, not our wisdom or works. By Gods mercy and grace!
Faith to believe in Jesus requires:
Jesus commanded us to repent and Be immersed in the name of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Jesus baptizes( immerses )you in the Holy Ghost and fire to purge your faith. Three immersions( baptisms)!
Jesus and the Holy Spirit does it all, you must have faith in God to believe in Jesus according to Gods Word!
First baptism of conviction and repentance:
The Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and needing salvation only found in Jesus, so the Holy Spirit baptizes( immerses) you in Jesus through conviction of sins and fear of sinning against God and showing Jesus as your only hope in God to be forgiven and made complete. We confess our sins and iniquities and He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Believe in Jesus!
Pray for the Holy Spirit to convict you!
This is the first baptism...Holy Spirit baptizes you in Jesus. This is repentance! Jesus said repent and be baptized.
Second baptism commanded by Jesus:
Washing of the Word happens when you do what His word says. Repent and Get baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and you will be given the Holy Spirit.
After receiving Jesus by faith you receive Gods grace. So we witness and testify that we too were dead in trespasses and sins but Jesus paid that debt of our sin, so we can be resurrected to live in our Spirit unto righteousness because of Jesus.
We repented to turn to Jesus as our forever and daily redeemer to do so. So we follow His commandment to get water baptized to testify of this profession of faith in Jesus, and we are given the Holy Spirit.
This is the command to repent ( turn from you and sin and the world and turn to to Jesus for salvation by redemption of His blood) and be baptized ( immersed) in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
We did this by faith. Which means we believed Gods Word and did what it said, not what we thought. We want to be reconciled to God so we believe in Jesus for the atonement and do what He says to receive it, as we are able to do.
Third baptism is purging of faith:
Jesus then baptizes ( immerses)you in the Holy Spirit and fire. Trials and troubles will come upon you and we must keep our hope in Jesus through it all. The love of God will be shed abroad in your hearts to mature you in faith.Do it with joy that His grace is enough and this will build experiences of faith in just Jesus, not your circumstances or thoughts. This hope you will not be ashamed of that is like child like faith because the love of God will be shed abroad in your heart and give increase to the maturity of your new born Spirit. Strengthen and purge your faith of impurities going through fiery trials trusting in the Lord.
Three baptisms that are the one baptism. The Holy Spirit and Jesus baptizes you and water baptism is your testimony of faith that you received Jesus. This is fundamentally one baptism. We have to be convicted to repent to Turn to Jesus for salvation by the Holy Spirit. This is the start of the baptism. We have to testify of our faith in Jesus by faith. The continuing baptism. Our faith has to be purged of impurities by Jesus baptizing you in trials( fire) and the Holy Spirit( truth). The fullness of the baptism. One baptism a total immersion by faith in Jesus being led by the Holy Spirit and sealed with the Holy Spirit to do so.
See Gods love for you(Jesus), even demonstrated to you, is enough and your faith has to be purged of impurities.
It is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus alone, that you are saved. It is easy to have faith when you talk or think about it but true faith is when all else comes against you and you still believe in Jesus.
All those that come to Jesus are chastised to be purged in faith!! You are put in the trials of fire that test faith with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit keeping you in the truth through the love of God believed in your heart. Jesus is the demonstration of the love of God to us.
Keep the faith rooted and grounded in Jesus and Love!
Believe in Jesus.
Well, if you don't kill unbelievers or witches, then your just as wrong as he is. No Christian follows the Bible.
@palerity - he believes baptism is necessary for what? salvation? Are you able to become a part of another church? Any church that teaches a person is made right with God by what they do, has lost the gospel.
🤔
@@michaelswain6125 They believe this is the way for salvation. Hear, faith, repentance, baptism then you're saved. They also believe you can lose your salvation. Thanks for your input
The guy with the red beard needs to come across a little more sympathetic. I know he has a passion to help people and I am grateful for that. But if your reading this I would just ask u be careful, and come across with concern, love, and just be careful with words.
I am a Christian. But as a Christian watching this I am just giving some honest criticisms.
Because we all wanna reach these people but they will only hear this and stand there listening if we don’t offend them
You have to understand something most of us if we're giving love to because we care about themwe're going to give God's truth and nothing but the truth along with the love that's what you have to have in God's truth will always offend you can't be worried about offending people now we're not talking about running them down making him feel small that's not what we're talking about the truth of Christ will always offend you can't be afraid of that you can't ever water down the gospel you got to give the truth at all times that's the problem with a lot of Christians nowadays, that's why you got the Joel olsteen's and some of the others they're so worried about offending people to try to get numbersthe gospel of the Bible does offend you have to give the truth man otherwise you won't end up in Hell God makes it very clear that he will spit you out of his mouth if you are lukewarm you have to give the truth and it is brutal you give it with love but you can't water it down
The way Mormons can shut someone down takes skill. You could say literally anything and they will look blankly into your eyes until you stop talking. For being such open-minded interpreters of the Bible, they don't venture outside their bubble of belief. No animosity here whatsoever ... just wow.