At this point I fully believe Viv blocks people due to the overwhelming amount of bull crap she's had to endure over the past few years and she's just sick of it all. I don't think it's something that means "Viv blocks everyone who criticizes her", but rather she's just a human and has her limits
Yeah like I don’t 100% blame her for blocking people because I blocked people for the hell of it but the difference between me and her is I don’t have a show with thousands of fans and no matter what she does with these controversies only be seen as the bad guy even if she’s in the right
Viv: [responds to criticism and defends her choices with little to no hostility] Critics: OMG SHE CANT TAKE CRITICISM!!! WHY CANT SHE JUST LET PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OPINIONS WITHOUT STICKING HER NOSE IN IT??? Also Viv: [blocks people yelling at her, thereby not interacting with them and giving them their space to have their own opinions] Also critics: OMG VIV CANT TAKE CRITICISM!!!! SHE NEEDS TO RESPOND TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT HER, NOT IGNORE IT!!!
@e92312no, it holds up perfectly fine when you see just how many people get aggressive with it, remember when yall online haters drove young skywalker mad? Or when the only thing in Ahmed best’s mailbox were death threats?
Alastor is quite literally from Louisiana and the town of New Orleans, and as a Louisianan myself; voodoo is a big part of the culture here. They’re saying "his design doesn’t match his creole heritage" HE’S A FUCKING DEMON. And also as a black person, how is Vivziepop being racist?? The Princess And The Frog also portrayed a black man using voodoo as evil, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Twitter never fails to make me suicidal.
I'm Italian but I don't get mad at the way Viv associated her Italian characters to the mafia. It's her show and she has the right to let it develop however she wants, as long as she doesn't directly say that Italians suck 'cause of the mafia (as an example). Everyone knows that mafia is a world-wide problem, ours is just a bit more famous but it's ok, every country has good and bad stereotypes. I love the show and I don't find it offensive, so can we cut her some slack ?
Angel dust isn't humanoid Alastor is, italian isn't an endangered race that needs more representation black is, you can't decide what is and isn't offensive to black people as you are not black, she used a closed practice used to connect with ancestors separated by slavery or death insensitively, just because you're not black and aren't affected by the racism towards blacks and of course don't feel offended at racism towards blacks as you yourself are not black and want to sweep it under the rug bc you like a show does not mean that black people can't stand up for themselves.
@@verkkra2219 There are other things we should keep in mind that you didn't consider, in my opinion: Every sinner has a unique appearence due to how they lived and died (including colors); Alastor is mixed race thus his skin could have literally came out either very dark, very light or more mixed (but again, we can't tell for sure cause he's a demon and we don't have a recent rapresentation of his human form). Also I don't think Viv is racist cause she has made several black characters in her shows and comics 😊 (I'm still learning english so be patient if I made some mistakes but feel free to point them out so I can get better ! ❤)
Btw, a theory says that Alastor has gray skin as a demon because he's also a cannibal, Rosie and the other cannibals have gray skin too, and let's remember, Alastor it's aroace but thinks he's a straight man that just hasn't found his right girl, it could be something similar with his ethnicity, because of his life period and the fact that he wants to be mysterious (I'm still learning english too 😭❤️)
As ridiculous as this situation already is, it’s messed up that people were sending hate and threats to Amir Talai. Man is just trying to do HIS JOB leave him alone! 😭
@@CharleedarlinThis seems like sarcasm, apologies if I'm wrong, but if so then this point doesn't really make sense, he didn't make the character, and he didn't say or do anything when it came to the voodoo controversy, how is he at all guilty?
@@grawlix-man463 I never said he was, and I do apologize if it seemed that way I was just sharing my thoughts, I did not mean at all for him to sound like the one who should be blamed that is my bad
"oh you MUSLIM AND YOU WORKING WITH ADULT ANIMATION?! not only that but YOU ALSO CURSED?! YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM, YOU ARE PART OF DAJJAL" yeah thats twitter
Let's be real. Even if Vivzie used fictional symbols, they're just going to go, "OMG, Vivzie is disrespecting voodoo by not using real symbols! See how terrible and racist she is?!" I honestly do not believe they want a discussion or even care about how voodoo is represented. They just want to cause drama with Vivziepop, "expose" her for how much of a "terrible" person she is and bring her down just because they hate her so they just pick something that they can use to cause controversy.
There are plenty of shows that used fake symbols or symbols of witch craft and alchemy no one was going to say that at all it's specifically because it was voodoo and voodoo is for black people to reconnect with ancestors lost to slavery or death. that's racist and insensitive as hell to use it for some anime white boy that wasn't meant to be black at all.
"Me when Vivziepop is actually like racist and I can finally hate her unabashedly" - someone who totally just wants to have an honest discussion about representation, probably
I wouldn't do that, stop defending Viv for stereotyping a religion and she doesn't have permission to use vudu, and it's a very real problem because various shows/books use the symbols to convey specially when alestor is a fucking deer.
Same, I just want to look at cool people's art and read silly memes. I avoid looking at the trending and For You tabs so then I don't feel like I'm giving my soul cancer 🥲
Honestly respect to you cuz I personally could never ever do anything on Twitter I don't trust it. Not to say that it's like the only social media app that's like this but it seems like most stuff comes from it....
Except that some of HH/HB artists i follow on Twitter keep whining, rambling or rant non-stop. It's so f**kin annoying that i might have to unfollow them. All i want is to see their arts, not some unnecessary stupid tweet and because of them, it's all over on my timeline.
yeah because god forbid people complain about an inaccurate and stereotyped portrayal about a closed religion that already has horrible misinformation spread about it by white people
"They say his design doesn't affect his culture or race enough" Okay, are we going to completely ignore the fact that these same people have no problem with Angel Dust's design not reflecting his Italian background? Or are we going to call out these attention seekers for their hypocrisy?
@@sailorstar3148 Very true! Creole people come in a variety of skin tones, not just black. It is, as you said, ironically racist to immediately say his design isn't "black enough" simply because he's Creole. Reminds me of the Nani casting controversy...
@@SweetOrangeGirlNot really, since Hoodoo/Voodoo are constantly used interchangeably and are heavily tied to a culture has already been through so much, it's only natural representing it wrong would rub people the wrong way, especially since it would cost nothing to be more educated on the subject.
My normal take on this situation would be to say people are being "Too sensitive" or "Snowflakes". Which to a small extent is true. However, I have come to find that when a show is hated to the extent people hate Hazbin Hotel or Helluva Boss, one person makes a claim like "misportraying Voodoo" the endless snowball of hate for the show gets a speed boost. With people claiming to know about voodoo getting angry and lying, while the ones who are trying to be serious get drowned in the veil of toxicity that is Twitter. Now, I don't think Vivzie is being racist for her Voodoo representations, I merely think we should look at the fact that there is evil in everything. Christianity, politics, TH-cam, and many many more to list. Alastor is in Hell because he was a bad guy, not to ruin his character look but its the facts. He killed people and enjoyed it, he probably used Voodoo to do so, just as many Christian's killed "for God" when it was wrong to do so. Alastor is being "nice" because he wants Charlie to fail, he wants people to get their hopes up. Doesn't mean that Voodoo is bad, there is and will always be a good intent behind everything, however people will always use it for hate, or bring hate to it. Just as we are watching. But that is my 2 cents, so
But the thing is we never get to see the good side of voodoo except for princess and the frog it’s always portrayed as some sort of dark magic by doing this it’s only making its reputation worse
These people are forgetting one important thing: Alastor isn’t evil because he practices voodoo, he’s evil because he was a murderer and cannibal. His mother who is in heaven most likely taught him while he was still alive
Something about redesigning a very non-human but POC character to be "more POC" feels... scummy. It's like the same people who downplay Viv's own race/ethnicity by saying she's "white passing" any time it's brought up that she's El Salvadoran. It's almost like these people think there's only one way to be a race/ethnicity. Definitely doesn't reflect poorly on these people at all.
yeah, its sounds racist in itself, like they think people can be "too white" for their race and culture. Reminds me of Rihanna that was bullied in Barbados for being "too white" but also bullied once she moved to the U.S. for being "too black". theres no peace for mixed race people, they get hate from both sides.
I have to say as a black person that is pretty scummy making Alastor look “more POC” because he doesn’t sit their standards and I am really offended that they said that Viv doesn’t care about POC people when she is POC. There ironically being racist ourselves by doing this and someone needs to call that out.
They’re just hypocrites yeah, I’ve seen these people try to project on everyone else and it’s infuriating. They act so prideful and holier than thou. Like seriously, I’ve seen this random twitter freak disregarded everything to one guy and said “You’re racist and hate black people” even though he was black himself, and once she found out she legit said “You’re not black enough so your opinion doesn’t matter”… like wow. 🤦♀️
it's hard to even reach a logical conclusion when you bring up points like this because it completely ignores the fact that media has whitewashed POC for ages, its not smart to ignore both points of view so idk what to really say anymore
If they're this upset over Alastor and Voodoo in the show, then they need to go on a tirade against the Child's Play saga where a serial killer uses voodoo to transfer his body into a doll. And uses voodoo multiple times through the films and tv series.
Right? Keep consistency please. Although, to play devil's advocate, perhaps they just don't gain traction because it is not as popular or freely ridiculed as Hazbin Hotel, so they are trying to use this to make their first step out into the public view for change.
@@TheMonotonePuppet This just feels so targeted. A friend of mine described it as them picking at a bone until they find marrow. There are hundreds of television, novels, films that depict Voodoo in a negative light long before Hazbin Hotel had come along, but I don't hear them blowing the horns of war about them. Child's Play is just one example. There's the Skeleton Key where Voodoo is used to terrorize a woman, and Weekend at Bernie's 2 where it used for laughs. I'm not seeing Viv doing anything different than what many many forms of media has done before. If they are want to go on a crusade about this, then they need to start attacking other franchises that are doing the same thing.
@@totallyzooter I'm sure there were, but this instant I believe is being used as an excuse to harassed Viv and VAs rather than being outraged over misconstrued religion.
The fact people went as far as to criticize viv for what fast food brands she eats at, in and for political reasons, is exactly why twitter is the worse place to try and make an online/social media presence. And lets not forget that sinners appearance in hell is based off of how they died or something in relation to their death, none really hold characteristics from their earthly bodies
This is probably why I hate Twitter because they're just willing to come up with any excuses to just cancel someone over something stupid or just an opinion. I have a Twitter account but this is just ridiculous and stupid to just cancel someone because of something dumb.
that’s because mcdonald’s is FUNDING A GENOCIDE so yeah people are gonna be pissed if she’s doing that. she clearly spends a lot of time online so for her to not know about the boycott is insane to the point where she might be actively ignoring jt
I'll point out that the sinner demons appearance isn't just based on how they died or in relation to their death but is a combination of how they lived their life, what they did in life, and how they died/in relation to their death. Angel died of a drug overdose but he is a spider demon because he was a part of the mafia which is a "web of crime" it's also why his entire family are also spider demons. Nothing about his demon appearance relates to drugs. Husk is designed around magicians and gambling because he was raised in a casino, was a heavy gambler, and loved magic shows. And Vaggie is a humanoid demon with a moth theme but maintains her human appearance with only minor alterations specifically her left eye which possibly suggesting how she died. Alastor is the only demon who's design is confirmed to be based up on his death as he is a deer demon and died by getting shot by a hunter that mistook him for a deer. It's also linked to both the modern day version of wendigos in pop culture and the traditional wendigo as pop culture wendigos are portrayed as deer-like but traditional wendigos are thin and grey/pale white skinned.
that whole fast food part was where i stopped caring what they said tbh. Unless someone is a rich mf, their choice of dining isnt going to have any real affect in this world and isnt representative of their beliefs anyway. it *can* be, sure, if they want it to, but usually its not that deep, and people likely arent exactly keeping up with every little thing big corporations do. idek if their accusations of what those companies "support" are even true tbh.... but its just angry people trying to fling mud and bring others down.
Dr. Facilier, Mama Odie and many other characters who have roots in voodoo culture have been depicted like this for years, yet not a single eye was batted at them. it feels like the cookie cutter case of "it's only a problem when viv does it" all over again. plus, in my eyes the reason viv was blocking and ignoring the topic at hand was pretty simple:she wanted to spend time with her family, friends and whoever else in her life since it was the holidays. she didn't want to ruin the mood, so she blocked and moved along. and i will admit it might be best if viv made some kind of apology, or at least explained the use of symbols sometime down the line (though knowing the anti-fandom, they probably won't care). plus i'm rather surprised we don't have anyone who actually has on hand voodoo knowledge/history speaking out on the situation (that i know of), and feels like just a bunch of drama seekers doing what they do, and not putting much research into their claims. and before anyone asks: i don't have any roots or ties to anyone in voodoo culture, let alone know anything myself (i have irish and german roots, and grew up in the US), so i really don't know how to go about the topic. but even from an outsider standpoint, i will admit this is valid criticism, but like ayy said, keeps getting used against viv. but like always, i bet these people will realize how their behaving at some point (especially during christmas of all holidays-), and move onto better things in life.
They were talked about 😂 but we also can't forget the princess and the fog was 15 years ago, so that stuff has definitely died down, so of course, people won't talk about it as much but to say no one said anything is jut not true
This is so frustrating. There's always something Twitter complains about, and this is one of the many stupid things they talk about. He IS from Louisiana, he's in a SINNER FORM, meaning that its based off how you looked before you died, and how you died. He got shot in the head, being mistaken as a deer, that's why his design leans to a deer appearance. Second of All, they talk about this, yet they forget about Princess and the Frog, where the shadow man is ALSO from Louisiana, and the fact voodoo is in the culture, good or bad, so he's quite similar to Alastor, that's why people joke about it a lot. This is so annoying, stop hating on Vivzie for a least a few seconds.
Why are people criticizing a show so harshly when it hasn’t even come out yet? Let’s not forget that Princess and the Frog, which is pretty much agreed upon to have good voodoo representation and has not been problematic because of it, was directed by two white guys. It is possible to have good representation even when you aren’t from that background as long as you do your research which I trust Viv and her team have done. Please people just give the show a chance when it comes out and then you have the right to criticize whether it has good representation of voodoo or not
Some people are so filled with hate and anger they have to find a target for it. Twitter is a cesspit because all of these kinds of people congregate there, because people of all kinds congregate there. It's an incredibly toxic website
I feel like it’s good that Viv is bringing voodoo into Alastor’s character because it fits his background as a Creole Louisiana man from New Orleans. Since voodoo is a touchy subject it gives it even more reason to be talked about and represented properly. We haven’t met Alastor yet and we shouldn’t judge so quickly. We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes and I’m sure Viv did her research and with A24 probably got to talk with a real voodoo practitioner.
It's a show about sinners where one of them HAPPENS to do voodoo. Its basically acknowledging different cultures and the fact that anyone can be a sinner, No matter the background. They are in hell and HE is down there for cannibalism, not Voodoo. There are definitely some saints who also do voodoo, we just haven't met them. The people calling it "Racist" are the same people who look at a movie about a duo and gets mad because they happen to be of the same gender.
If they do intend to go that route, I'm hoping the team behind Hazbin does try to get contact with an actual practitioner or an expert on Voodoo. It's rare to see positive and accurate representations, so it would be a perfect opportunity if they can do that.
@@sailorstar3148 Dr. Facilier has actually been criticised. And some still are critical (since the depiction of Voodoo tries to make it look "evil"). And while Mama Odie did serve as a balance of someone using it for good, I think Facilier's is clearly shown to have more of the cultural designs of Voodoo (the designs of the "Friends from the Other Side"), so it gives off the idea that Voodoo is something "bad" and isn't at all reflective of what actual Voodoo is.
As a person of color myself, I believe Vivziepop isn't racist. People just want to tear down something that they themselves can't produce and that is a beloved show that has gained a large fanbase. They will throw everything to the wall to see if it'll stick. If it's not racism, they'll find another reason to hate on this already controversial show. As a long time fan, I refuse to allow the imbecilic no life people to ruin Hazbin Hotel for me. Remember, Hazbin Hotel isn't ruined if you don't allow it to be ruined.
Just look at the tweeter at 2:20, this incident stuck something to the wall and shes now using it to *”finally* hate viv, she doesnt care about the racism parts, shes just happy to finally be able to hate viv and hid behind a reason
Yeah, this seems to just be a bit of research failure on Viziepop(Which becomes surprising more common the more you look into her stuff). But this is a general thing the average layman wouldn't know
@@seandewar47and because of this more research can be done to give us a better anda potentaly more Intresting and accurate depiction of said practice allowing for more learning and knowledge
You made may night/day better as a person who doesn't really care about racism but not take about race of people. All of us is racist inside in our heads, just don't talk about race and boom racism no more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ԅ( ͒ ͒ )ᕤ ༼;´༎ຶ ༎ຶ༽ The Internet be like when Vivezpop made a half race character from Louisiana.
@@iEatGlue6969Because he's mixed, I'm sorry but not all mixed folk are perfect 50/50 od their parents, there's people pale as the moon with straight hair despite having one of their parents be black, same for the other side, it's disrespectful to act like people have to look EXACTLY like their heritage.
The thing I hate about people saying alastor isn't black enough for a half Creole and half white is the fact I'm 50% Mexican which is the highest percent but I'm the whitest person ever and you can't tell I'm Mexican unless I told you
no but these people understand a person physically changes when they go to hell? Do they think that Husk was an anthropomorphic cat-bird hybrid? Do they think Vaggie had purple skin?
That's another thing. Though it may also be cool to have Alastor's features be more representative of his heritage when he was alive, people forget that their features are more reminiscent of how they died or the things they disliked in life (if I remember correctly). Like, Nifty is a cyclops.
@@kerensahardesty9851 Maybe he doesn't reflect that side of his heritage is becuse while he loved his mom maybe he really hated his father if you understand what I mean?
@@henninghidalgo782 Oooh, you mean he hates his white father and therefore looks more like him? Yeah, he mentions his mother and not his father in the pilot; you may be on to something...
@@kerensahardesty9851 I think the change is more reminiscent of their sins than how they died. With Alastor being reminiscent of a Wendigo (which surprises me that more people aren't screaming about that since Wendibois are from Native American folklore), his biggest sin was likely cannibalism in life. Angel was part of a mob family which can be a whole web of lies, thus is reminiscent of a spider. Dunno about Nifty or Husk tho.
Because these clowns don't do their research before attacking anything. I remember when they shit their pants over homophobia in hazbin hotel and Asmodeus not being a rapist. The drama Viv gets into is the most forced, artificial nonsense out there.
Honestly for the point of his creol heritage not being represented in his character design, a sinner demon’s apperence is based off their death, particularly who they were alive, and their sins. Alastor was a radio host and was shot being mistaken for a deer, both things being incorporated into his design. Someone’s race and heritage on earth doesn’t mean shit, it’s the sinner as a person. I mean like, Vaggie is Hispanic but I really don’t feel like *her* design really represents her Hispanic heritage and no one is talking about that. If you understand the world building, you would know it’s not like she’s trying to be racist and not represent, a sinner’s design is just based off them as a person on earth, not their race.
Race should matter very little when the show depicts everyone as a demon. People are just reaching like they always do lol. I don't know why Viv insists on addressing this BS every time it comes up. She's just feeding into it. It'd be funnier if she ignored them all and watch them implode.
Yes exactly! It doesnt matter about ALL the details in hell about how they died,,what matters is what sins they did and how they died.( possibly doing another)
Yeah but why does a character dying erase their blackness and make them white? Why doesn’t he have any black features at all? He’s still incredibly humanoid.
Isn't Alastor's whole thing that he's a Bokor? Those are considered evil even within the context of Vodou, and are not representative of Vodou as a whole (the same goes for Fasilier).
Idk if it was intentional, but looking into it… yeah- that’s what I’ve always interpreted Al as being. He’s evil, his religious practices don’t have anything to do with that, he just happens to use them with bad intent.
2:50 i like how people accuse her of not being able to take criticism because she blocks the people who hate on her but if she tried to defend herself then they would be saying « jUsT bloCK tHeM ! » and still say that she can’t handle criticism.
I was playing in a Mage: The Ascension like 7 or 8 years ago. And one of the characters I ended up playing was a practitioner of Voodoo and Voldone(I've seen it spelled so many ways). I sat down and researched it for that purpose. The number one thing I found outside of some of the more analytical stuff was a lot people saying if you're not black, its not for you. A few things these specific kinds of people don't know include: there are many cross over with Christianity with saints and the loa, there are many different practices what is commonly called Voodoo, and it's basically an old school religion, not a modern one. Another interesting thing abut the loa is that since it had cross over with the saints, all they had to do is call a new name out and they were still worshiping the same loa. Look, people want a reason to dislike projects like Hazbin Hotel. This closed religion thing is the next new thing. Soon they will find themselves back at the anger at the female newscaster again for being homophobic. The art is too stylistic. The overtones of sinners managing to turn their life around and I'm sure many people will the sinners don't deserve it. This to me has the same feeling as every other time we've seen people are upset about something they don't belong to. This has zero to do with positive or negative portrayals and all about the virtue signaling. And you know this because you're seeing people unrelated to the practitioners complaining about it.
@e92312Al was a serial killer still enjoys torturing others in hell possibly still kills the other sinners from time to time, Angel "what are boundaries" Dust was a Mafia member and while it's likely not a sin he basically sexually harassed Husk every opportunity he gets, Husk that we know of was a gambler which may mean if he's addicted to that he'll also likely have been pushed into some unsavory things if he got in with the wrong crowd, Vaggie is violent while she doesn't execute said violence on the cast it's very much at the forefront of her character. Plus we don't know a lot backstory wise for Vaggie Husk and Nifty so while they seem pretty okay now Husk and Nifty in particular are influenced by Alastor basically intimidating them to be nice, or at least as nice a hell will allow.
@e92312 I don't know, Alastor turning into a giant and impaling groups of people with tentacles doesn't exactly change well lol Also that's not really a good point "Harry Potter would just be about a very violent historical academy if you removed the supernatural elements" like yeah, it would change, it would change alot, too much for the argument to actually work cause it DOES rely on the supernatural at all times, and the angel's choice of yearly extermination doesn't fit into any real society or point in history.
It does seem like a fun idea. Like he dropped into hell, then he gets rid of some overlords, and one of them had the power of voodoo/hoodoo, so he took it.
If I was vivzie, I'd just delete my twitter account. I can't imagine having to deal with stuff like this everyday. Even if it was offensive or inappropriate or whatever, can't people just calmly explain why it is instead of calling for the creator's head on a pike.
Most people would just see that as a win or that she really was racist. You can't stop anything by hiding. Also, even if you do calmly explain there are still many people who would not change their beliefs. It's good to try though
@@VynDimentional You stay and gets constantly harassed by the littlest of things. Go away and people will claim that as a win. Imo, you lose either way but you get bombarded with abuse with one case while the other you'll at least be able to get rid of some of the noise. I think that I'd rather let a bunch of randoms on the internet claim a meaningless victory over me than to be constantly beaten down emotionally and mentally by them. In my experience, even if the person still won't change their minds even after being explained something rather politely and civilly, it still doesn't warrant a yelling match. Yelling and screaming about something won't get the message across because the message will just be muddled by all the noise from all the yelling.
I think that one TikTok where somebody said "I finally have an excuse to hate Vivziepop" unintentionally explains the hate pretty well- people simply hate other people for the things they have made or have been involved in simply because they hate that thing. I mean, it's been made pretty clear. Laura Bailey got multiple death threats for her and her entire family because of the character she voiced in The Last Of Us Part II. The developer of The Coffin of Andy and Leyley got doxxed by people who has no media literacy and had to sell the rights to their game and go into hiding. (I think they're still developing the game as far as I know. They just don't have full rights to it anymore.) I could probably make an entire list of creative people who are hated for no apparently reason. People hate the creator of Attack On Titan for being "pro ethnic-cleansing" even though he can't make it any clearer that he's against it and war in the series. People just want to hate the people behind the creations that they hate for no apparent reason.
So the reason why Viv was targeted for the Voodoo stuff instead of Princess & the frog was because Alastor doesn’t look black but he gives off more “white” vibes. So the setting & design was basically thrown off in Hazbin that using Voodoo was unnecessary if not much black people are in the spotlight. But unlike the disney movie, it was MEANT TO BE SET IN BLACK. Despite that the directors are white that is.
Just from watching this video I would say that Viv didn't mean no harm to Alastor's character, voodoo is voodoo and she probably just wanted to make it more accurate for the character not meaning for it to be racist in any way. It's just the fact that people are going crazy again because of course something they believe in that could be 100% false
@@lxmesoda okay ya the video did mention that but it’s also the fact that Hazbin Hotel will be aired on Tv so there had to be someone to say something about it or everyone just didn’t know the background so it could be a misunderstanding or something
@@lxmesoda Who the hell are they gonna ask? The creator of the religion from 200 years ago? Why would someone need permission to use voodoo? No one owns these things.
Like, “oh, you drink water? Well that water is Nestle and Nestle is literally evil, so you buying the water anyway makes you evil too! You don’t care about human suffering!” People need to grow up lol
Yeah, like I never knew McDonalds Starbucks and KFC supported Israel. Why are people using that as an attack on Viv. It makes no sense. Just because one person knows this secret about a company doesn't mean everyone in the fandom knows. It's not common knowledge.
Vivzie gets criticism and responds, and people say she shouldn't feed the trolls. Vivzie gets criticism and blocks, and people say she can't take criticism. This is why I take 0% of any of the X assholes (because it's X, not Twitter anymore) seriously. It's a no-win game of how shitty can we make a creator look today? They've pulled it with multiple other indie creators at this point. Vivzie is just their favorite target and has the most "ammunition." People need to go offline and touch grass.
The people complaining aren't even creole and probably never even been to Louisiana. Also I think Vivziepop takes criticism very well, blocking someone accusing you of being racist and anti-black just because one of your characters isn't dark enough for them (which isn't even criticism, it's just an accusation to make people hate on another person)
I have to say as a black person I’m really offended over them getting upset over Alastor basically not looking “ black enough” with that logic, that means that Jasmine from the boondocks is not black enough either.
As a Louisiana creole, and a native of Louisiana, I will have to agree. I really wish these people would stop using my ethnic group to attack this woman. I really wish they didn’t.
@@Milokissavlk I said this before these psychos, don’t care about any ethnic group, animators,SA victims,voodoo users, and poc they only care about being right. And I am so sorry that these idiots don’t understand anything about Louisiana.
I’m just baffled that people are only just NOW talking about the voodoo symbols Alastor has been shown to have in the background, as well as his usage of it, like, did they not watch the pilot 4 years ago? Why is it just NOW an issue?
This! This kind of statement always made no sense to me. How is this situation problematic NOW all of a sudden, instead of when the pilot came out 4 years ago.
Because 4 years ago it was a tiny independent project, so the Twitter horde didn't have a reason to nitpick every single detail. But now it's releasing on prime, and is trying to have fun. This makes Twitter people mad
Yeah… it really feels like they don’t actually care- they do this with queer characters too (heck, they’ve done it with Al, who’s apprently “bad ace rep”, which, as an ace person, is BS). Yes, it is Viv and the team’s responsibility to make sure that they are being as respectful as possible (ie. hiring a consultant), especially with religion, but they are also not the literal devil for not. People that are affected by this have the right to speak up, but people who aren’t seem to be the majority- and are speaking over voodooists (is that how you spell it?) who are genuinely upset by appropriation. You are not an ally for speaking over someone, this is performative activism- hell, i feel like I’m overstepping here (and I prob am, whoops).
@randomhuman_05 it's basically always preformative activism. If people in the actual community the character is based on have issues, I've yet to see it.
While I do think that it is important for Vivzie to accept the criticism and respect people's opinions and make changes accordingly, but I do not think its ok for people to send threats over a debate even if their points are valid.
@@Alastor117.in my opinion bending the knee to Twitter and rewarding their delusional and shitty takes should be the LAST thing us sane people should do no one complained about Dr. Faciler so we will not change Alastor and just accept the double standard I refuse to sympathize or cater to these overly “woke” insane Twitter control freaks but that’s just me..
I'm just picturing a 14 year old screaming "We can't go to McDonalds, mom, they sUpPorT gEnOciDe!!" Angrily eating their cold chicken nuggets later when it's clear no one is going to bring them Taco Bell. Terminally online Zoomers and Gen Alpha exhaust me.
Same, I'm very much pro-palestine but getting mad over someone buying them is so stupid? Cause MC are very cheap and for people that doesn't have the money to buy other food wouldn't care about the boycott in the first place, I know what it's like to be starving since my parents aren't well off, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive.
My best friend since the third grade cut me off because of this situation. I believe Viv isn’t the best person in the world and needs to accept criticism better, but the reason I didn’t say anything about this was because 1) I genuinely did not know a whole lot about the situation until now and I don’t like speaking out about things unless I know the full story with evidence. Even then, it’s not my obligation to talk about it. 2) I don’t like getting involved with drama because not what I think what’s going on is okay, but because I don’t get involved for the sake of my own mental health 3) As mentioned, it made me think back to Dr Facilier. He’s used VooDoo for evil and nobody seemed to care then?? And people tend to forget that Alastor is in HELL. He’s there for a reason. He’s NOT a good person. 4) As someone who doesn’t practice voodoo/ know much about it or isn’t poc, who am I to say what your representation should look like? I’m not in your shoes. If it’s YOUR culture, please speak out and educate me to understand better.
As for number 3, there were (and still are) actually people who criticised how Dr. Facilier's association with Voodoo as if it was "evil magic" was stereotypical and not actually reflective of actual Voodoo. Though the internet being younger during the film's release meant that it wasn't to the point of toxicity and even on the internet, the conversations about the misrepresentation of Voodoo in the film was at least calmer since the makers of TPotF didn't get into too much hot water like Viv.
Sorry to hear it impacted such a long-standing friendship, even when you’re not the one on the wrong it won’t change how much that hurts to experience. It’s insidious to see a cruel cult tactic like excommunication become so normalised as a response to political disagreements, which is worsen with this modern political puritanism tendency to default to the assumption you’re an inherently bad person for not having blind faith in a narrative when your resistance to blind faith is because you actually care about both your intellectual and moral integrity and won’t concede to the hubris of uncritically indulging your own confirmation biases whenever a political narrative is presented to you. It’s extremely reasonable to defer forming an opinion until you’re informed enough to be capable of an authentic opinion, don’t be gaslighted into thinking otherwise. The way your friend behaved was not normal, healthy behaviour, nor acceptable even in genuine political discourse. I can at least say from my personal experience over the years with similar falling outs with long term friends over the insanity of political culture, you’re often better off for it and it probably was an overdue inevitable. It’s not a friendship worth having if you have to yield to their will and outright lie to meet their absurd political standards. A lot of people are consciously aware to lookout for abusive behaviour in romantic partners but have a blind spot with friends and end up tolerating unacceptable behaviour far longer than we should. As you meet new people and form new friendships (which you absolutely will), that contrast of acceptable behaviour only becomes stark. In some instances, politically radicalised friends do eventually find their way back into your life (whether it be weeks or even years after the falling out) it’s not uncommon for someone to eventually become self aware of the toxicity of their prior extremism and wilfully change for the better, but in other instances, you do sometimes lose them for good. In the later scenario just remember you’re upset over the loss of the person and friend they once were; that version of them exists in the past, you will not find them in the present, so it’s only going to hurt worse if you keep pursing something no longer attainable in the present. Since the fight is still recent and it was such a long-standing friendship, I would at least advise not making the same mistake as them and closing off entirely to the potential to talk things out and reach an understanding. After all, people can get stupidly caught up in the angry energy of online controversies and will settle back into a more rational mindset and be capable of reconciling, but definitely be wary of restarting the friendship if the ONLY terms for reconciliation are you just letting them win, because even if that gave you access back to your friendship, it’s has major red flags they’ll mistreat you again and reuse this tactic of hurting you via cutting contact until you do and say what they want you to, which no true friend would ever do.
Why blame people who eat McD or Kentucky chicken instead of the company itself? Food doesn't have politics attached and for some people that's the only food places that are nearby. Also I had no idea they were involved in any controversies,not everyone knows.
People are blaming the companies though. They’re actively saying “hey, whenever I eat at your restaurant, the money I spend there actively goes towards a cause that I don’t support. So I’m not going to purchase from your company anymore.” If she didn’t know then I understand that, but if she did then that’s pretty messed up. If you don’t have any other restaurants nearby to eat at then just eat at home, because while you’re concerned over whether you wanna eat at McDonalds or KFC, the people in Gaza are worried about if they’ll even have any food or water at all. They don’t have tables to eat on or anything of the sort, and it’s pretty disrespectful to just say “but food doesn’t have politics attached so I should be able to eat there” whenever you KNOW what the money you spend there will be going towards I rlly don’t mean to sound rude but I think we should be grateful that we even get to make these choices while the people in Gaza have no choices at all
Honestly, Them using that against her is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. I'm sure that most of the people making these claims go there themselves. They are just looking for things to use against her. FOOD. IS. FOOD.
In fairness, people ARE blaming the companies themselves. They're just advising other people to be mindful on what they spend money on. Even online, the people who advocate for Palestine make it clear to NOT attack people who eat there and instead just redirect them to better brand alternatives or outright publicly shared recipes for the burgers and drinks.
Just gonna put here that the original term for Zombie was in fact used in Voodoo to describe someone whose been enthralled by magic, appearing in a dazed and almost dead like state. Like they were revived from the dead to enact the will of the reviver. I heard this long time ago so im probably butchering alot of this but safe to say Voodoo isn’t fully clean either. I do think it has been unfairly portrayed but I never got the sense that Alastor’s evil was his power it was him. Also do they want the murderer man to be a black guy? Not sure thats good representation
can we please get at least 5 minutes without people harassing Viv over something dumb? 😭 Edit: just to clarify, I am not implying that the religion of voodoo or hoodoo is dumb. Apologies if it offended anyone 😓
Yeah I honestly don't care, she isn't racist and people are just taking this s*it too far. I seriously do not belive this was on purpose. People are literally looking for any small reason to hate viv.
Also i also feel bad for Maria who’s an artist that captures Viv’s artstyle well that if one didn’t have a very sharp eye or differentiated Vivzie’s and Maria’s artstyle. Apparently she’s being harassed for the same dumb reason after tweeting a image of her and her father and apparently that she has some Creola in her blood and people came at her with the “You ain’t black” and also trying to put words in her mouth. Edit: I think someone also dm’d her with a kys message
She actually told me that situation in a discord call and I am really disgusted how people are being racist without realizing that they are being racist. I’m personally offended, by this because my grandma (my dad’s mom) was indigenous (native American)but I am black. I’m just mixture different and this means and races.
No one had an issue with Walt Disney Studios for Doctor Facilier in The Princess and the Frog. No one had an issue with Don Mancini for Chucky in Child's Play. Why would anyone had an issue with Vivziepop for Alastor in Hazbin Hotel?
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again- I don’t know much about drama and I hate having to choose sides. Unfortunately it’s hard to just have a good thing nowadays, but these shows make me happy and I want to hear updates on them. I love the character writing. I have no idea what’s going on with drama, though. Whatever it is, my only hope is that it can be resolved one way or the other.
And this is why I'm happy with staying as a bystander instead of interacting with any fandom or community out there. It's always better to stay inside your own bubble and not get involved with any problems.
I honestly do think that she was trying to make Alastor more accurate too his origins with using the actual signs and sigils. I’ve seen all of these tweets cause my friends have sent me them and it honestly pisses me off that they’re trying to force me to believe viv is a bad person. Like people make mistakes and it is merch. She can change it if she wants and also for the later seasons of the show.
I agree with wanting people to stop harrassing her for something dumb, but i also understand the side of people not wanting misrepresentation of a religion. Eitherway, all we can hope for is for people to be mature and take the right steps to come to an agreement. My thoughts on what viv can do: -Hire a social media manager to avoid the stress of extreme hate and criticism. This is also good for her to be able to really think about a response and to avoid direct hate. -listen to genuine criticism and do what needs to be done about it I agree with the suggestion that she couldve made her own symbols instead of using actual ones from voodoo culture. But at this point its a bit too late. My thoughts on what the audience can do: -be respectful and helpful when giving criticism (hating on someone isnt criticism) -leave suggestions on what can be done instead of hate comments. (remember that hate brings nothing positive to the situation)
maybe she *does* have a pr manager and it's still not going good. And it's mostly weekly when it happens. Plus on Instagram she's not acting like this.
Maybe she can add a saint character who does Voodoo too. Bringing in the fact that it's not their culture that caused him to end up in hell, but his own actions in life.
It’s been 3 years since the pilot and no one noticed till now. Where now it’s to late to change things around to have like more deer like made up symbols. Because the first season comes out in like 20 days.
People need to chill the hell out. It's just for a show and isn't gonna cause actual harm to anyone. Its a character with some magic and shit not a actual threat or racist stuff
You can't incorporate anything into a show or artwork without being called racist or sexist or some kind of prejudice anymore, everyone is so sensitive. They seriously hate her and are sending threats because she's "appropriating voodoo culture" as if anyone looked at the symbols that popped up for a few seconds and then went on to hate people who practice voodoo as a result
I agree with wanting people to stop harrassing her for something dumb, but i also understand the side of people not wanting misrepresentation of a religion. Eitherway, all we can hope for is for people to be mature and take the right steps to come to an agreement.
As someone who has been practicing magick for ,10 yesrs now and knows a great deal about voodoo in all its form i feel like I can speak about this . i honestly applaud her and the team for trying to depict the voodoo magical practice (hoodoo) accurately imo i think it would be worse if she tried to not accurately portray it But thats just my opinion, furthermore feel like alot of ppl whoa are commenting dont practice voodoo let alone are black (but i could be wrong) And another thing voodoo(the religion) is ofc course not an evil religion but the pracrice thats being portrayed by alastor (hoodoo) can be malicious , lemme explain. magick from whatever continent or country it comes from has always been moraly gray and can be used for good or evil its up to the practioner. And while voodoo is a closed practice and you need permission to practice , hoodoo is not and with respect other people can pracrice . And Alastor is part creole so in the cannon of the show he would be able to practice hoodoo and or voodoo The situation of Al not being Creole looking enough HELLO hes a demon now this is a cartoon?? Hes not supposed to look that human
well first off magic isn't real lol. plus if it was you could practice voodoo if you want because fuck anyone who says you can't do magic. but that would be if it was real lol
that's a good point. vaggie's supposed to be latino and there's nothing really in her design that denotes that (as far as i can see at least), yet i don't see a lot of people getting up in arms over it
@@tonypringles2285 The implied words are "This is really interesting *for me* to learn." Like most every time someone makes a declaration such as mine, they aren't talking about your subjective view. They are talking about theirs. Thus, your sentence is, quite literally, unable to be true due to the way circular logic comes into play for statements founded on subjective views. So take your pointless debate and shove off.
Now I don’t know about the voodoo thing but the race thing is crazy- Al was from the 30s right? And before that, back then African Americans and people of African descent thought it was cool to have straight hair, it was in. Also people were less likely to be judged if they were lighter so al trying to fit that description makes sense. Now I can see angel finding out he was Cajun (he’s a Cajun right? Sorry if I got that wrong!) and helping him find a way to show himself better (seriously want a scene he braids his hair cause that would be so cute) but letting everything go I understand why people are frustrated but al is from a time looking like he could pass was a want (of course passing is an awful idea and you are perfect the way you are) and that’s how he’s portrayed. I knew when I heard he was African there was gonna be some crap but every second someone always blames the creator. Guys so much goes into these characters, please understand how hard it can be.
So freaking true! So many people seem to be jumping to conclusions, without actually thinking about how they might be wrong. There are so many different reasons that explain why he is the way he is. They need to understand they aren't some master detective who found the fatal flaw that ruined the character or show. Not only that, but I find the obsession with skin tone and changing the skin tone to be odd as well. Specifically because the demons are blatantly obvious. Demons with grey skin color tend to be POC in their past life, while those who are white (and one much keep in mind that white people normally are not light screensaver white) are alabaster white, with unnatural shades to highlight that uncanny side. These aren't humans anymore, and the design makers Vivzie and co actually put thought into maintaining a parallel for thoughtful representation.
especially since if you were white passing in those days, you completely leaned into it because no white person would suspect you were actually mixed and oppress you. Remember being black or even mixed was dangerous in those days. So if you could pass as white, you made yourself pass as completely white. @@kerensahardesty9851
@kerensahardesty9851 True. And even if he wasn't, who gives a flying fuck? There are characters in this show and HB who are walking talking demonic *objects*. People are just reaching as always lol.
No hate to you or viv but this has always been a problem, I remember seeing people talk about it sometime around 2019-2020. Also ayylmao showed an article from 2020 talking about the same issue.
What I saw most were comments on tweets about her family saying that her family is going to die or they should die of shame or something like that. Even if this is racist (which I believe it is not) it is very disgusting to attack her family who never did anything!
I mean that that whole thing is stupid anyways because let’s be for real here people aren’t gonna stop eating at those restaurant chains because they are allowed people that can’t even afford to buy groceries so in that case they’re the ones that are kind of being insensitive over people just wanting Mickey D’s.
Let’s see, as a Louisianan here, I see nothing wrong with how she portrayed Voodoo here despite not particularly being apart of the culture itself. I think she did it rather accurately, and besides, Alastor is in hell of course he won’t use his Voodoo for everyone’s best interest but his own entertainment. I don’t think she meant anything bad when making Alastor use Voodoo for evil. I mean, I don’t know, but I didn’t hear anyone whining when Angel Dust called Vaggie a “Taco” in the pilot. I think it’s all kinda just fucked up how these people are acting. They want to ruin a perfectly good show because they think they didn’t display the culture correctly and definitive enough on Alastor’s character but yet getting upset when Vivziepop uses real Voodoo symbols. I mean heck! I think it’d be worse if she just put squiggles, that shows how much attention and work goes into it since she didn’t put simple little lines around the screen. She didn’t really discriminate against Alastor’s race at all and has never shown (to my knowledge) that she has any ill-will towards poc. I don’t think, and I may not be on the right leg to say this, but just because you don’t depict someone else’s race and culture perfectly doesn’t label you as racist, it just means you aren’t as educated on it mate. I always thought that racism meant that you discriminate against races that aren’t your biological one and you express disdain towards them. She did NONE of that and has showed no signs of thinking that way. People just need to get a grip and quit whining about problems that have no reason to be fixed since they were never me in the beginning. It’s like some people say: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Btw if you read this thanks for spending your time to see my view on this.
@@Rosa-he6xb serafine I think, it was a while ago on Twitter when some using a icon that looked like a fem version of Richard Watterson was going after her.
Nah as a voodoo person lackadaisy did fucking amazing man. I wanna frame theses panels on my walls. Serafine passes the vibe check. (Alastor fails the vibe check)
I can't comment on the Voodoo part but I can comment on Creole. As a mixed person people who have black in their family can appear white as hell. I'm a great example as I have a white parent and a black parent yet look white. The only give away is my hair but a lot of people have curly hair, black or white. Plus, there was that woman in history who was so light that she was able to dress as a white man and escape slavery with her husband. (Ellen Smith Craft) How is this possible? Deep rooted genes. Alastor could've had white family that just popped up in his genetics that made him look white. There's been stories of black couple who've given birth to white babies and vice versa. These occurrences are caused by great ol' granddaddy's genes deciding to bombard the baby randomly. Same thing could've happened to Alastor, giving him light (But not completely white) skin and maybe straight hair. Or he could've liked straightening his hair, and it refelected on his demon form. Speaking of demon form, maybe he looks that way because he's a demon and it's just reflecting his death somehow. If his current death is still canon, maybe his straight hair is from the fact that deer have straight hair. It's fucking hell. Anything could be possible. That's my take on the race situation. And if you decide to ignore everything I said, than at least take this away. Let's please leave the fucking voice actors alone. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
how does this comment not have any replies? you helped me understand things from a different perspective and it helped me a lot, thank you for taking the time to write.
Aaaaaa! Thank you thank you God thank you! As an actual, Louisiana creole person, there’s a couple important things to know number one Louisiana Creole is a culture and an ethnic group and not a race. Fun fact, you can be fucking white and be a Louisiana creole again it’s a culture, not a race. Although our culture is very much dinghies by its its mixed history and yeah you are completely right Louisiana creole a very wide variety of looks. I get told I’m faking being a creole because the fact I have blonde hair and blue eyes and am very pale. But it makes sense since one side of my family is Eastern European and the other side of my family is creole who could pass for white. There’s no one way to look Louisiana creole we’re a culture again. And again your point on him being mixed is completely right. Thank you!
@@Milokissavlk your welcome! My mom, grandma, and great grandma all look mixed despite them being fully black. Since I'm actually mixed, you can imagine what that did to my skin a lot of my friends find out I'm mixed and are shocked. It's hilarious. But yeah. Just because I look white doesn't mean my black side just disappeared from the face of the earth.
People keep assuming it'll be bad... I had mild familiarity with the faith before HH, and seeing Alastor with Veves drawn so well made me research more. If it weren't for the pilot I'd have never gotten deep enough to understand what being closed means to them. Alastor helped spur me to find a new understanding of not just the faith he's tied to but others with similar practices. To those immediately assuming it will be bad rep I want to ask: What if it's good? If it's bad it goes on the steaming trash fire of other bad takes... But if it's good, done with respect, and becomes dynamic representation then what? This feels like the exact same experience I've had in the trans community whenever we get wind of a gender nonconforming character or cross dressing scene, there's this same tension and risk of bad rep. Everytime. As a polytheist I know every uncommon faith has people who have this reaction, and for good reason... But we can't expect to ever see good rep if we always snap at any whiff of our practices. It's a closed practice, I get that, but that's never stopped anyone wanting to hurt it, so why snap before the proof of ill will? Save that fury for when we have the full scenes to show how and why it's wrong so that people can learn how it should be done; teach them the right way, and explain how it should be.
If anyone wonders part of why troublesome creators doubledown in their positions, this is why. Yelling at them, sending them death threats isn't going to fix the issue. If anything, she'll double down and continue whatever. We should talk about it, maybe in a more positive manner. Sending them death threats if disgusting. Even with JK Rowling, I wouldn't tell her to kill herself. I don't think Vivziepop deserves it or the voice actor of Alastor in the series proper. Anyone wants to know why she reacts the way she does, this is why. Yelling at her, swearing at her, and sending death threats at her will just make things worse. Perhaps talk about it, hear her side how she plans to portray voodoo, hear from voodoo practioners and see how it all plays out.
She better have made a dark humor joke in a post or something because if she just visited it than she or other creators cannot live their life normally
@@DudeYoureAWondernot really, Owl Café aren't exactly the most ethical thing out there due to the fact they feature humans being able to touch and interact with animals that are not fond of being touched/bothered
@@TyeGraybill-um4doThey're basically Café that have live owls all around in the place. Frpm what i found, they're mostly popular in Japan. I'd also advice against going to them since unlike Dog/Cat Cafés, Owls aren't very fond of humans
Theyre just shitty because they just outright hate the show. They need to just grow up and stop getting mad because people dont believe what they believe. Like i could go on a tirad against non-Scandinavian/Germanic people appropriating asatru and butching it/using it for white supremacist shit.
I live a better and more fulfilled life, simply because I don't use Twitter. If anything is evil, it's this disgrace of an app that brings out the worst in humanity. I will celebrate on the day it shuts down like a holiday.
I think putting effort into the proper portrayal of different cultures is extremely important, however, I do not think Viv is intentionally being malicious here. I think she's just naive and I certainly don't think people should be sending her death threats over this. Also, there's the fact that the show is already complete as in production is done and changing what they've already done with Alistair would further delay the show which the fans were also complaining about People like to think that situations like this are strictly black and white, Where Viv is clearly evil for portraying Allister in this way and they are objectively good for pointing it out but in reality the situation is gray. It's a little bit more complicated than that and I think people have a hard time understanding that. I think yes, it would be great if more television portrayed people of color properly, but it's also a fundamental problem in our education system and the people who are portraying. These cultures improperly are not doing it out of malicious intent but out of naivety
I feel like people are also forgetting how long ago the pilot aired. It was in the 2010s. Literally nobody was thinking about "the unjust depiction of voodoo in pop culture". Plus even if the pilot was aired this year, Viv didn't exactly have a team of executives debating over whether something is offensive like how every new show does. It just feels super unfair to hold up a pilot - which is basically a rough draft of a show, where the creators are still trying to figure out the goddamn base plot - and compare it to a meticulously combed through netflix show which has a boardroom of at least a dozen executives debating on every line. Also that macdonalds tweet made me laugh. I feel like calling someone a genocidal racist maniac for having a coffee is part of the reason why people are getting so desensitized to horrible world events. Like... Random twitter user, you are the problem here. Not the girl eating a big mac. They really looked at the genocide and thought "How can I make this about me?" Smfh
Some extra parts cus I feel the replies coming: Yes, I do think it's good that shows are trying to be more culturally sensitive and I think it's good they invest so much into that. I'm just saying that it isn't fair or even logical to compare that to, what was at the time, a small indie show. No, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be trying to hold the companies themselves accountable. I think we absolutely should be. But hating on a random person who has no affiliation with Macdonalds (to my knowledge) and was just... eating some fries? Like... What is the point? You're just wasting your time being mad at the wrong people and making everyone who shares your views on macdonalds look like idiots who just want to get mad and use wars and horrible events as justification. It is inherently selfish, hence the whole "how can I make this about me".
Homie, it came out in 2019 It sure as hell mattered. Also, there's no excuses, man. Lackadaisy is indie, yet it did it freaking amazingly. I love hazbin but this ain't it cheif.
How many times do we have to teach you a lesson, old man?! Twitter: I'm just jealous of someone being more successful than me despite doing horrible things in the past that they've apologized for.
Well shit, I suppose these people should also cancel: - Saints Row 2 - Princess and the Frog - Pirates of the Carrabin - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - Dead by Daylight - Batman - Scooby Doo - Child's Play - Dr. Who - Law & Order I could go on. Look, I can't imagine what it must be like, seeing your faith portrayed so poorly. It's a vast injustice, and I agree something should be done. However, this is not the way to see any kind of positive change accomplished. Vivizipop is a small-time animator, and her choice to make Alastor use voodoo doesn't seem to be done with malice, despite what the Twitter horde seems to think. I very highly doubt *most* of those depictions mentioned above were done maliciously. Yes, Hollywood has twisted the public opinion on voodooism to a very bad degree. I may not be of that faith, but I don't need to be to see the injustice that is done to it and those who practice it. However, dogpiling small creators and even movie directors won't fix the issue. The best way to do this is to have someone to speak up for you on a larger scale, without being belligerent or rude. If you want bees, use honey. Fling shit, and all you'll get are flies. People are more responsive when someone is civil in their discourse. And honestly, the finger should be pointed at Hollywood and the damage they do to the image of Voodoo, not the individual. Claiming Viv is a racist because she eats fast food is ridiculous; far more likely she's just unaware of who or what the company supports and just wants a damn burger when she's hungry. Honestly, someone needs to step up and speak on this topic publicly, in a way that will gain traction and put eyes on the topic. I don't believe it's beyond fixing, and the world would benefit from a better understanding of the voodoo faith. However, one cannot bash *all* depictions of their faith in a bad light as racist. Everyone has bad eggs, you have to admit. From Christianity, to Voodooism, to even Atheism; everyone has those who would use their faith for nefarious means, and in the case of voodooism, it's oftentimes given a degree of power that most faiths lack. Is this representative of the faith? No. Is Dr. Facilier one of the coolest villains of all time? Yes! Strive to better the world's view of your faith through healthy discourse, and you'll find more flowers than weeds. Target the large corporations and companies that belittle you, not the small creator who was probably raised with a poor conception of your faith. Speak up in a non-hostile way and let your voices be heard. I don't need to be a person of color to know the struggle is never that simple; I live in an area where people of color are afforded more opportunities than most places, so sometimes I miss the forest for the trees. But threats, violence, and accusations accomplish nothing but reinforcing a negative view of those who would defend the faith from misrepresentation. Do I think Alastor should have used more generic symbols? I don't think it would have harmed his character to do so. However, given the time of Alastor's death, the location of where he lived while alive, and his racial background, it's not unheard of that maybe the guy who was sent to Hell might be evil because he's a sociopathic murderer, not because he's a practitioner of Voodooism...?
I don’t think Viv was trying or intending on being racist, voodoo is usually just associated with evil, but when using real world symbols it’s important to do thorough research, and more than likely she didn’t get permission, but she probably didn’t know and didn’t mean anything by it just a misunderstanding that twitter took way too seriously
4:00 Now that one is pathetic and doesn't help any actual genocide victims; One, those photos dont have dates on them, and two the rage behind Boycotts is always meant to be directed at the industries and companies doing the thing, not random people who you want to cancel or mob on
Vivziepop: does reasonable adult thing blocks, and not lash out, and goes on with what’s done is done Twitter: aaaaaaahh 🤬 (I understand bad betrayal of voodoo but I think racism wasn’t intended)
I’m sorry but anyone ranting on twitter doesn’t have a proper education on any of these topics. Oh my goodness, I’m Jamaican and I don’t like spicy food. Guess I should delete myself for not representing my rac- actually stfu, Alastor does not have to have a design representing his creole heritage just to be cannonically creole. Also what if Alastor happens to be a voodou practioner, and also HAPPENS to be evil at the same time.
This reminds me of the old joker meme from batman "vizi writes a whole series based on Christianity and no one bats an eye. But she puts some voodoo in it and everyone looses there minds" I dont think that any religion is bad or evil, but there will always be people within a religion who do evil things. And I think thats just one of the overall themes of her story. Since it seems shes portraying some angels as evil. My theory is just that it's part of the story to highlight religious people can be either good or bad, it depends more on the person and not necessarily the religion. But its just theory at this point since the show is not out.
Based off of the comments, there seems to be some misunderstanding. They used real voodoo symbols in the creation of his character that are tied to actual practices and cultural spirits. It’s not the same as a character having a rosary or an evil eye, it’s more like how people carelessly throw around the name ‘skin-w@lk3r’ as a simple folktale instead of a dangerous entity from Navajo culture or how people disrespect/ dismiss superstitions from cultures. (Or even in the likeness of the usage of ouija or spiritual rituals for entertainment.) The issue is not that Alastor is a character associated with voodoo, but how they represented that. Characters whom practiced voodoo like Dr. Facilier had a kinship with demons, had voodoo dolls, used tarot and had shrunken heads. While it might have been stereotypical, neither character had the usage of legitimate sigils like vèvè, which in general terms could be more worrisome considering they represent an actual spell or even sometimes spirits or gods. In this case, his association with death was a concern and other sigils that were misused, which in general is a big no no in any spiritual practice. The issue lays in the misusage of cultural symbols and lack of better handling with this character’s culture. Especially considering the repercussions one can receive spiritually when disrespect is shown to such important cultural symbols. Though it must be admitted that some people blew this topic way out of proportion, it still is an issue and shouldn’t just be dismissed. Hell, even My Little Pony handled the idea of a culturally spiritual character better with Zecora.
Yep, the usage of actual symbols is the issue here, not whatever weird crap people are doing on twitter. Season one is already done but I hope the team learns from this mistake and avoids this with season 2 because yi k e s.
And it took these clowns 4+ years after the pilot of this show to make a big stink about it and "care" about the depiction of it? Just in time for the shows official release early next year... That's one helluva timing ain't it?
People have cried wolf about Vivzie so much any criticism has lost all meaning. Even if these were legitimate claims, which they are not, I can't take them seriously because of how people have gone after her and the show about anything and everything. I'm not some super fan saying Vivzie or the show is above reproach, but it's all just white noise now and I just can't care any more I am out of fucks to give.
Voodoo has been depicted in all sorts of media for years now, from cartoons and tv shows to novels and movies, and this is the first time I and many people have heard any complaint or backlash about depicting voodoo/vodou/hoodoo. I am sure a majority of the chronically online people who are complaining are not Creole, Cajiun, Southern, Haitian, or practice vodou. Ridiculous.
Alastor is the best character in this whole thing, along with being one of Vivzies oldest creations. I think a lot of people recognise that if they tear this character down the show and Viv would likely come down with it. But these are pretty weak arguments. No one who enjoys this show is out here thinking Voodoo is evil, she could have made Al from anywhere, but made him from Louisiana and canonically half creole to respect voodoo’s heritage, and at the end of the day, with regards to his design, I haven’t seen anyone complaining that POC don’t have fluffy ears and antlers. Calm down.
I'm legit tired of people going around and harassing VivziePop left and right. Like, I get it, she doesn't take criticism that well but there's some things you have to remember. 1. Even though Alastor is half Creole, that does NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN he should be black or have "more Creole looking appearances". Genetics are a big part in how a person looks, so one side of his family might be black Creole, but the other side might be white. 2. When people were calling her out for racist stuff in those tweets, I looked at the images in the video, and SURPRISE SURPRISE, NOTHING RACIST IS THERE. Also, I'm pretty sure one wouldn't go out of their way to give a character voodoo powers because of its cultural roots. Also, Voodoo originated about 6,000 years ago in West and Central Africa, but became more mainstream between the 16th and 19th centuries. There's also a misconception about voodoo being used to harm people/animals due to popular culture (even though its used in the show because its fiction, what are ya gonna do) when instead its mainly used for healing and expelling evil spirits. 3. SEPARATE THE ART FROM THE ARTIST PEOPLE, MY GOSH Anyway, drink some water, touch some grass, hug your family/friends, and have a good one!
Honestly, experiencing this kind of drama on something that I have no experience with just really gave me a headache. Sure, this kind of criticism is valid and should be discussed by the ones who are uncomfortable by this. And of course, Viv not doing the best thing to respond to criticism is nothing new and she should've really responded to this issue. I like Viv and her casual tweets she makes on Twitter, but she really needs to handle criticism like a mature human being. I guess she doesn't want to be harrassed by her haters when she does make a response to this. But, at least say something. Viewing this drama was such a pain in the neck that I just wish this year could just be over already. I was just minding my own business as usual, to then coming across yet another drama discourse when it is almost Christmas time just really gave me a headache. Like, can we just go for a week without the need to cause a big riot on Twitter. This is why I always keep my mouth shut when drama comes into play because I am not an idiot who spews out random defenses to whatever is shown within the discourse. I just hate partaking myself in drama and I just watch it die down after a day or two. Overall, this drama is very complicated since I am no expert on the usage of voodoo and how it is portrayed through Alastor. I like Alastor as a character and his role as a radio overlord who smiles all the time. But if this is problematic for certain individuals, let them voice their criticisms. Just... for the love of god, don't harass anyone to the point where it becomes a nasty discourse for the umpteenth time.
This turned out to be more of a tangent than I planned. Sorry in advance. TLDR is that poor, uneducated takes like the tweet about Palestine should not be elevated in tandem with more valid criticism. Look, I don’t think I’m educated enough to take a stance on many of these points. I don’t know enough about voodoo culture to form a fair opinion. But that tweet about her eating at fast food places and Palestine is a brain-dead negative IQ take. I’m not against Palestine, and I’m not trying to weigh in on the conflict. But saying someone is racist for wasting at KFC is a work of idiocy. I can’t speak for MDs and KFC, but I know the Starbucks criticism is either mischaracterized or outright debunked. Someone is not “racist” and “promoting genocide” by posting pictures of fast food. I’m flabbergasted that I even have to say that. I wouldn’t be commenting about this, however, I believe highlighting bad take comments like this is extremely harmful to civil discussion and debate. I appreciate your commentary videos, but I do believe it’s important that you focus on bringing to light legitimate criticisms, and the discussion that surrounds them. The Palestinian rights movement is serious and important, and elevating these moronic, almost conspiratorial takes only hurts the movement’s image, and shifts the conversation away from valid criticism and discourse based in fact and common sense, to arguments based on delusion and hysteria. But most importantly, it lumps valid, legitimate criticism that a discussion can be had around in with the brainless and idiotic takes twitter is known for, resulting in a lack of civility even when criticism is valid. Again, I’m not scolding you. This is just some feedback for future videos as I really appreciate you breaking down controversy. I’m super excited for Hazbin but I believe that some criticism is valid and it’s important to separate logical feedback from insane, non-factual rants.
“They say his design doesn’t reflect his culture or race enough” excuse me?? Look at me. Do I look like I’m of Uzbek/middle eastern descent? What, am I supposed to put on one of those square shaped hats I’ve always seen in my childhood and be seen simultaneously eating osh and samsa while waving a blue, white, and green flag?? I regret installing twitter man
Bruh this whole situation is completely dumb. I’m from Louisiana and almost everyone here that sells stuff uses at least some type of voodoo depiction. I’m black as well as see no problem with this stuff being used because at the end of the day it isn’t about what happened in the past. It’s about how it brings the character together and there’s nothing wrong with her using real voodoo symbols because at the end of the day it’s a animated series that isn’t real nor has any physical influence on the outside world
All I was thinking is that just because character is a bad guy that happens to use voodoo doesn’t mean that it’s vilifying voodoo. Just like if a bad person is gay that doesn’t mean that’s vilifying LGBT because surprise surprise not everyone in every group is as sweet as cupcakes.
@@sailorstar3148 yeah exactly. It’s like their trying to create a problem just because they don’t like the creator yet they overlook how others do the exact same thing
Why is everybody treating literal racism as dumb unfounded drama... Viv has been harrassed for stupid stuff for no reason before, but this is legitimately bad and should be criticised. Harrassment is never okay, but the people who brought this up are getting much more harrasment than Viv or her crew. You can still like hazbin hotel, but if you arent black or know extensively about voudoo then you cant talk over the voices of the people being actively harmed and sum their criticism as drama for the sake of drama
Literally everytime there is Viv drama its just people making stuiped claims and getting all upset over small things but this time I see were people are coming from but I don't really have much say in this matter so idk
At this point I fully believe Viv blocks people due to the overwhelming amount of bull crap she's had to endure over the past few years and she's just sick of it all. I don't think it's something that means "Viv blocks everyone who criticizes her", but rather she's just a human and has her limits
Yeah like I don’t 100% blame her for blocking people because I blocked people for the hell of it but the difference between me and her is I don’t have a show with thousands of fans and no matter what she does with these controversies only be seen as the bad guy even if she’s in the right
if only these people saw viv as human...
Viv: [responds to criticism and defends her choices with little to no hostility]
Critics: OMG SHE CANT TAKE CRITICISM!!! WHY CANT SHE JUST LET PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OPINIONS WITHOUT STICKING HER NOSE IN IT???
Also Viv: [blocks people yelling at her, thereby not interacting with them and giving them their space to have their own opinions]
Also critics: OMG VIV CANT TAKE CRITICISM!!!! SHE NEEDS TO RESPOND TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT HER, NOT IGNORE IT!!!
@e92312no, it holds up perfectly fine when you see just how many people get aggressive with it, remember when yall online haters drove young skywalker mad? Or when the only thing in Ahmed best’s mailbox were death threats?
Those same people basically use "criticism" to mean abuse and harassment.
Alastor is quite literally from Louisiana and the town of New Orleans, and as a Louisianan myself; voodoo is a big part of the culture here. They’re saying "his design doesn’t match his creole heritage" HE’S A FUCKING DEMON. And also as a black person, how is Vivziepop being racist?? The Princess And The Frog also portrayed a black man using voodoo as evil, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Twitter never fails to make me suicidal.
Princess and the frog ALSO showed the differences between good voodoo and bad voodoo.
@@DrAngelKinsYeah, Mama Odie!
actually people did have a problem with how dr facilier was portrayed back then
As a brown girl I completely agree with u. Like what she’s doing isn’t racist.
It’s true, no one on Twitter is real ☠️ Also, isn’t Alastor’s whole niche *supposed* to be furry Dr. Faciller with extra 20s aesthetics? 🤨
I'm Italian but I don't get mad at the way Viv associated her Italian characters to the mafia. It's her show and she has the right to let it develop however she wants, as long as she doesn't directly say that Italians suck 'cause of the mafia (as an example). Everyone knows that mafia is a world-wide problem, ours is just a bit more famous but it's ok, every country has good and bad stereotypes.
I love the show and I don't find it offensive, so can we cut her some slack ?
Angel dust isn't humanoid Alastor is, italian isn't an endangered race that needs more representation black is, you can't decide what is and isn't offensive to black people as you are not black, she used a closed practice used to connect with ancestors separated by slavery or death insensitively, just because you're not black and aren't affected by the racism towards blacks and of course don't feel offended at racism towards blacks as you yourself are not black and want to sweep it under the rug bc you like a show does not mean that black people can't stand up for themselves.
@@verkkra2219 There are other things we should keep in mind that you didn't consider, in my opinion: Every sinner has a unique appearence due to how they lived and died (including colors); Alastor is mixed race thus his skin could have literally came out either very dark, very light or more mixed (but again, we can't tell for sure cause he's a demon and we don't have a recent rapresentation of his human form). Also I don't think Viv is racist cause she has made several black characters in her shows and comics 😊
(I'm still learning english so be patient if I made some mistakes but feel free to point them out so I can get better ! ❤)
@@Alice-the-BibiBro your English is perfect you ain’t gotta apologise for nothin
@@unionjakass6589 Thanks, I'm glad 😄
Btw, a theory says that Alastor has gray skin as a demon because he's also a cannibal, Rosie and the other cannibals have gray skin too, and let's remember, Alastor it's aroace but thinks he's a straight man that just hasn't found his right girl, it could be something similar with his ethnicity, because of his life period and the fact that he wants to be mysterious
(I'm still learning english too 😭❤️)
As ridiculous as this situation already is, it’s messed up that people were sending hate and threats to Amir Talai. Man is just trying to do HIS JOB leave him alone! 😭
oh no I like his work! People should NEVER hate on him!
@@CharleedarlinThis seems like sarcasm, apologies if I'm wrong, but if so then this point doesn't really make sense, he didn't make the character, and he didn't say or do anything when it came to the voodoo controversy, how is he at all guilty?
@@grawlix-man463 I never said he was, and I do apologize if it seemed that way I was just sharing my thoughts, I did not mean at all for him to sound like the one who should be blamed that is my bad
"oh you MUSLIM AND YOU WORKING WITH ADULT ANIMATION?! not only that but YOU ALSO CURSED?! YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM, YOU ARE PART OF DAJJAL" yeah thats twitter
Let's be real. Even if Vivzie used fictional symbols, they're just going to go, "OMG, Vivzie is disrespecting voodoo by not using real symbols! See how terrible and racist she is?!"
I honestly do not believe they want a discussion or even care about how voodoo is represented. They just want to cause drama with Vivziepop, "expose" her for how much of a "terrible" person she is and bring her down just because they hate her so they just pick something that they can use to cause controversy.
There are plenty of shows that used fake symbols or symbols of witch craft and alchemy no one was going to say that at all it's specifically because it was voodoo and voodoo is for black people to reconnect with ancestors lost to slavery or death. that's racist and insensitive as hell to use it for some anime white boy that wasn't meant to be black at all.
"Me when Vivziepop is actually like racist and I can finally hate her unabashedly" - someone who totally just wants to have an honest discussion about representation, probably
I wouldn't do that, stop defending Viv for stereotyping a religion and she doesn't have permission to use vudu, and it's a very real problem because various shows/books use the symbols to convey specially when alestor is a fucking deer.
69th like
Literally no one would say that.
This is exactly why I’m only on Twitter for Art. I never look at drama. Thanks for keeping me updated AyyLmao
Damn I wish I had your willpower. I'm addicted to drama bs and at least 70% of my feed is always something like that
Same, I just want to look at cool people's art and read silly memes. I avoid looking at the trending and For You tabs so then I don't feel like I'm giving my soul cancer 🥲
Honestly respect to you cuz I personally could never ever do anything on Twitter I don't trust it. Not to say that it's like the only social media app that's like this but it seems like most stuff comes from it....
Except that some of HH/HB artists i follow on Twitter keep whining, rambling or rant non-stop. It's so f**kin annoying that i might have to unfollow them. All i want is to see their arts, not some unnecessary stupid tweet and because of them, it's all over on my timeline.
yeah because god forbid people complain about an inaccurate and stereotyped portrayal about a closed religion that already has horrible misinformation spread about it by white people
"They say his design doesn't affect his culture or race enough"
Okay, are we going to completely ignore the fact that these same people have no problem with Angel Dust's design not reflecting his Italian background? Or are we going to call out these attention seekers for their hypocrisy?
Angel is a flamboyant and white. That probably ticks enough boxes for them to go "yep this is authentic Italian" XD
They’re ironically, being kind of racist just because the character doesn’t fit there standards
@@Murrytmds Angel get a pass because the dude is Gay
Twitter loves pandering to Queer people
@@Murrytmds Yeah, probably 💀
@@sailorstar3148 Very true! Creole people come in a variety of skin tones, not just black. It is, as you said, ironically racist to immediately say his design isn't "black enough" simply because he's Creole. Reminds me of the Nani casting controversy...
I guess Dr. Facilier or Mama Odie (even though she’s a good one) can’t use voodoo anymore, either.
I mean, Princess and the frog has gotten a bit of controversy about its use of Voodoo/Hoodoo. Viziepop is getting the same treatment
@@seandewar47It’s still weird…
@@SweetOrangeGirlNot really, since Hoodoo/Voodoo are constantly used interchangeably and are heavily tied to a culture has already been through so much, it's only natural representing it wrong would rub people the wrong way, especially since it would cost nothing to be more educated on the subject.
@@seandewar47 what about childs play 1988?
@@seandewar47I suppose so. I personally wouldn’t mess with voodoo/hoodoo, but that’s just me.
My normal take on this situation would be to say people are being "Too sensitive" or "Snowflakes". Which to a small extent is true. However, I have come to find that when a show is hated to the extent people hate Hazbin Hotel or Helluva Boss, one person makes a claim like "misportraying Voodoo" the endless snowball of hate for the show gets a speed boost. With people claiming to know about voodoo getting angry and lying, while the ones who are trying to be serious get drowned in the veil of toxicity that is Twitter. Now, I don't think Vivzie is being racist for her Voodoo representations, I merely think we should look at the fact that there is evil in everything. Christianity, politics, TH-cam, and many many more to list. Alastor is in Hell because he was a bad guy, not to ruin his character look but its the facts. He killed people and enjoyed it, he probably used Voodoo to do so, just as many Christian's killed "for God" when it was wrong to do so. Alastor is being "nice" because he wants Charlie to fail, he wants people to get their hopes up. Doesn't mean that Voodoo is bad, there is and will always be a good intent behind everything, however people will always use it for hate, or bring hate to it. Just as we are watching. But that is my 2 cents, so
Exactly what I thought
But the thing is we never get to see the good side of voodoo except for princess and the frog it’s always portrayed as some sort of dark magic by doing this it’s only making its reputation worse
These people are forgetting one important thing: Alastor isn’t evil because he practices voodoo, he’s evil because he was a murderer and cannibal. His mother who is in heaven most likely taught him while he was still alive
Something about redesigning a very non-human but POC character to be "more POC" feels... scummy. It's like the same people who downplay Viv's own race/ethnicity by saying she's "white passing" any time it's brought up that she's El Salvadoran. It's almost like these people think there's only one way to be a race/ethnicity. Definitely doesn't reflect poorly on these people at all.
yeah, its sounds racist in itself, like they think people can be "too white" for their race and culture. Reminds me of Rihanna that was bullied in Barbados for being "too white" but also bullied once she moved to the U.S. for being "too black". theres no peace for mixed race people, they get hate from both sides.
I agree.
I have to say as a black person that is pretty scummy making Alastor look “more POC” because he doesn’t sit their standards and I am really offended that they said that Viv doesn’t care about POC people when she is POC. There ironically being racist ourselves by doing this and someone needs to call that out.
They’re just hypocrites yeah, I’ve seen these people try to project on everyone else and it’s infuriating. They act so prideful and holier than thou.
Like seriously, I’ve seen this random twitter freak disregarded everything to one guy and said “You’re racist and hate black people” even though he was black himself, and once she found out she legit said “You’re not black enough so your opinion doesn’t matter”… like wow. 🤦♀️
it's hard to even reach a logical conclusion when you bring up points like this because it completely ignores the fact that media has whitewashed POC for ages, its not smart to ignore both points of view so idk what to really say anymore
If they're this upset over Alastor and Voodoo in the show, then they need to go on a tirade against the Child's Play saga where a serial killer uses voodoo to transfer his body into a doll. And uses voodoo multiple times through the films and tv series.
Right? Keep consistency please.
Although, to play devil's advocate, perhaps they just don't gain traction because it is not as popular or freely ridiculed as Hazbin Hotel, so they are trying to use this to make their first step out into the public view for change.
@@TheMonotonePuppet This just feels so targeted. A friend of mine described it as them picking at a bone until they find marrow. There are hundreds of television, novels, films that depict Voodoo in a negative light long before Hazbin Hotel had come along, but I don't hear them blowing the horns of war about them. Child's Play is just one example. There's the Skeleton Key where Voodoo is used to terrorize a woman, and Weekend at Bernie's 2 where it used for laughs. I'm not seeing Viv doing anything different than what many many forms of media has done before. If they are want to go on a crusade about this, then they need to start attacking other franchises that are doing the same thing.
TBF, that exists before Twitter. I agree. It is stupid outrage
@@Aragempeople did outrage about this before… you just weren’t born yet
@@totallyzooter I'm sure there were, but this instant I believe is being used as an excuse to harassed Viv and VAs rather than being outraged over misconstrued religion.
The fact people went as far as to criticize viv for what fast food brands she eats at, in and for political reasons, is exactly why twitter is the worse place to try and make an online/social media presence.
And lets not forget that sinners appearance in hell is based off of how they died or something in relation to their death, none really hold characteristics from their earthly bodies
This is probably why I hate Twitter because they're just willing to come up with any excuses to just cancel someone over something stupid or just an opinion. I have a Twitter account but this is just ridiculous and stupid to just cancel someone because of something dumb.
that’s because mcdonald’s is FUNDING A GENOCIDE so yeah people are gonna be pissed if she’s doing that. she clearly spends a lot of time online so for her to not know about the boycott is insane to the point where she might be actively ignoring jt
@Mourningstar_666 soa am I anti semetic for buying a Big Mac the other day…..shit
I'll point out that the sinner demons appearance isn't just based on how they died or in relation to their death but is a combination of how they lived their life, what they did in life, and how they died/in relation to their death. Angel died of a drug overdose but he is a spider demon because he was a part of the mafia which is a "web of crime" it's also why his entire family are also spider demons. Nothing about his demon appearance relates to drugs. Husk is designed around magicians and gambling because he was raised in a casino, was a heavy gambler, and loved magic shows. And Vaggie is a humanoid demon with a moth theme but maintains her human appearance with only minor alterations specifically her left eye which possibly suggesting how she died. Alastor is the only demon who's design is confirmed to be based up on his death as he is a deer demon and died by getting shot by a hunter that mistook him for a deer. It's also linked to both the modern day version of wendigos in pop culture and the traditional wendigo as pop culture wendigos are portrayed as deer-like but traditional wendigos are thin and grey/pale white skinned.
that whole fast food part was where i stopped caring what they said tbh. Unless someone is a rich mf, their choice of dining isnt going to have any real affect in this world and isnt representative of their beliefs anyway. it *can* be, sure, if they want it to, but usually its not that deep, and people likely arent exactly keeping up with every little thing big corporations do. idek if their accusations of what those companies "support" are even true tbh.... but its just angry people trying to fling mud and bring others down.
Dr. Facilier, Mama Odie and many other characters who have roots in voodoo culture have been depicted like this for years, yet not a single eye was batted at them. it feels like the cookie cutter case of "it's only a problem when viv does it" all over again.
plus, in my eyes the reason viv was blocking and ignoring the topic at hand was pretty simple:she wanted to spend time with her family, friends and whoever else in her life since it was the holidays. she didn't want to ruin the mood, so she blocked and moved along. and i will admit it might be best if viv made some kind of apology, or at least explained the use of symbols sometime down the line (though knowing the anti-fandom, they probably won't care).
plus i'm rather surprised we don't have anyone who actually has on hand voodoo knowledge/history speaking out on the situation (that i know of), and feels like just a bunch of drama seekers doing what they do, and not putting much research into their claims.
and before anyone asks: i don't have any roots or ties to anyone in voodoo culture, let alone know anything myself (i have irish and german roots, and grew up in the US), so i really don't know how to go about the topic. but even from an outsider standpoint, i will admit this is valid criticism, but like ayy said, keeps getting used against viv.
but like always, i bet these people will realize how their behaving at some point (especially during christmas of all holidays-), and move onto better things in life.
They were talked about 😂 but we also can't forget the princess and the fog was 15 years ago, so that stuff has definitely died down, so of course, people won't talk about it as much but to say no one said anything is jut not true
This is so frustrating. There's always something Twitter complains about, and this is one of the many stupid things they talk about. He IS from Louisiana, he's in a SINNER FORM, meaning that its based off how you looked before you died, and how you died. He got shot in the head, being mistaken as a deer, that's why his design leans to a deer appearance. Second of All, they talk about this, yet they forget about Princess and the Frog, where the shadow man is ALSO from Louisiana, and the fact voodoo is in the culture, good or bad, so he's quite similar to Alastor, that's why people joke about it a lot. This is so annoying, stop hating on Vivzie for a least a few seconds.
Why are people criticizing a show so harshly when it hasn’t even come out yet? Let’s not forget that Princess and the Frog, which is pretty much agreed upon to have good voodoo representation and has not been problematic because of it, was directed by two white guys. It is possible to have good representation even when you aren’t from that background as long as you do your research which I trust Viv and her team have done. Please people just give the show a chance when it comes out and then you have the right to criticize whether it has good representation of voodoo or not
Some people are so filled with hate and anger they have to find a target for it. Twitter is a cesspit because all of these kinds of people congregate there, because people of all kinds congregate there. It's an incredibly toxic website
I was reading your comment when it hit me... Keith David is in both The Princess and the Frog AND Hazbin Hotel. 😂
Sorry, random thought 😅
@@TheCombatWombat0😂😂😂 Yeah. Don't see anyone posting about how Husk is technically a POC despite being a freaking cat 😺
@@Pastel_DreamsJust because he’s voiced by a POC doesn’t necessarily mean he is one.
Princess and the Frog is probablmatic too
I feel like it’s good that Viv is bringing voodoo into Alastor’s character because it fits his background as a Creole Louisiana man from New Orleans. Since voodoo is a touchy subject it gives it even more reason to be talked about and represented properly. We haven’t met Alastor yet and we shouldn’t judge so quickly. We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes and I’m sure Viv did her research and with A24 probably got to talk with a real voodoo practitioner.
It's a show about sinners where one of them HAPPENS to do voodoo. Its basically acknowledging different cultures and the fact that anyone can be a sinner, No matter the background. They are in hell and HE is down there for cannibalism, not Voodoo. There are definitely some saints who also do voodoo, we just haven't met them. The people calling it "Racist" are the same people who look at a movie about a duo and gets mad because they happen to be of the same gender.
If they do intend to go that route, I'm hoping the team behind Hazbin does try to get contact with an actual practitioner or an expert on Voodoo.
It's rare to see positive and accurate representations, so it would be a perfect opportunity if they can do that.
@@devofficialchannel I am just wondering how is Alastor getting criticized for using voodoo, but Dr. Facilier isn’t?
@@sailorstar3148 Dr. Facilier has actually been criticised. And some still are critical (since the depiction of Voodoo tries to make it look "evil").
And while Mama Odie did serve as a balance of someone using it for good, I think Facilier's is clearly shown to have more of the cultural designs of Voodoo (the designs of the "Friends from the Other Side"), so it gives off the idea that Voodoo is something "bad" and isn't at all reflective of what actual Voodoo is.
@@devofficialchannel he has I guess I never knew about it since it all happened when I was in first grade when the movie came out (it’s been a while)
As a person of color myself, I believe Vivziepop isn't racist. People just want to tear down something that they themselves can't produce and that is a beloved show that has gained a large fanbase. They will throw everything to the wall to see if it'll stick. If it's not racism, they'll find another reason to hate on this already controversial show. As a long time fan, I refuse to allow the imbecilic no life people to ruin Hazbin Hotel for me. Remember, Hazbin Hotel isn't ruined if you don't allow it to be ruined.
Just look at the tweeter at 2:20, this incident stuck something to the wall and shes now using it to *”finally* hate viv, she doesnt care about the racism parts, shes just happy to finally be able to hate viv and hid behind a reason
Yeah.. Internet is just. Super crazy...
Yeah, this seems to just be a bit of research failure on Viziepop(Which becomes surprising more common the more you look into her stuff). But this is a general thing the average layman wouldn't know
@@seandewar47and because of this more research can be done to give us a better anda potentaly more Intresting and accurate depiction of said practice allowing for more learning and knowledge
You made may night/day better as a person who doesn't really care about racism but not take about race of people. All of us is racist inside in our heads, just don't talk about race and boom racism no more.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ԅ( ͒ ͒ )ᕤ ༼;´༎ຶ ༎ຶ༽
The Internet be like when Vivezpop made a half race character from Louisiana.
Alastor is just perfect the way he is. We shall stay strong for our beloved radio demon my fellas.
Also, he could just be albino and colour doesn't really have to represent their race in hell because there are sinners who aren't the usual colour
@@spoon4956never stated to be albino plus the hair is the most basic white Boy hair
@@iEatGlue6969Because he's mixed, I'm sorry but not all mixed folk are perfect 50/50 od their parents, there's people pale as the moon with straight hair despite having one of their parents be black, same for the other side, it's disrespectful to act like people have to look EXACTLY like their heritage.
@@grawlix-man463 he has quite literally no features of black people
The thing I hate about people saying alastor isn't black enough for a half Creole and half white is the fact I'm 50% Mexican which is the highest percent but I'm the whitest person ever and you can't tell I'm Mexican unless I told you
no but these people understand a person physically changes when they go to hell? Do they think that Husk was an anthropomorphic cat-bird hybrid? Do they think Vaggie had purple skin?
That's another thing. Though it may also be cool to have Alastor's features be more representative of his heritage when he was alive, people forget that their features are more reminiscent of how they died or the things they disliked in life (if I remember correctly). Like, Nifty is a cyclops.
@@kerensahardesty9851
Maybe he doesn't reflect that side of his heritage is becuse while he loved his mom maybe he really hated his father if you understand what I mean?
@@henninghidalgo782 Oooh, you mean he hates his white father and therefore looks more like him? Yeah, he mentions his mother and not his father in the pilot; you may be on to something...
@@kerensahardesty9851 I think the change is more reminiscent of their sins than how they died. With Alastor being reminiscent of a Wendigo (which surprises me that more people aren't screaming about that since Wendibois are from Native American folklore), his biggest sin was likely cannibalism in life. Angel was part of a mob family which can be a whole web of lies, thus is reminiscent of a spider. Dunno about Nifty or Husk tho.
Because these clowns don't do their research before attacking anything. I remember when they shit their pants over homophobia in hazbin hotel and Asmodeus not being a rapist. The drama Viv gets into is the most forced, artificial nonsense out there.
Honestly for the point of his creol heritage not being represented in his character design, a sinner demon’s apperence is based off their death, particularly who they were alive, and their sins. Alastor was a radio host and was shot being mistaken for a deer, both things being incorporated into his design. Someone’s race and heritage on earth doesn’t mean shit, it’s the sinner as a person. I mean like, Vaggie is Hispanic but I really don’t feel like *her* design really represents her Hispanic heritage and no one is talking about that. If you understand the world building, you would know it’s not like she’s trying to be racist and not represent, a sinner’s design is just based off them as a person on earth, not their race.
Race should matter very little when the show depicts everyone as a demon. People are just reaching like they always do lol. I don't know why Viv insists on addressing this BS every time it comes up. She's just feeding into it. It'd be funnier if she ignored them all and watch them implode.
Which honestly is much better, it's literally one of the characther design rules, a design that incorporates an aspect or aspects of the character.
Yes exactly! It doesnt matter about ALL the details in hell about how they died,,what matters is what sins they did and how they died.( possibly doing another)
Yeah but why does a character dying erase their blackness and make them white? Why doesn’t he have any black features at all? He’s still incredibly humanoid.
vaggie looks vaguely hispanic to me. but alastor doesn’t even look slightly black.
Isn't Alastor's whole thing that he's a Bokor? Those are considered evil even within the context of Vodou, and are not representative of Vodou as a whole (the same goes for Fasilier).
well voodoo IS wrong anyway. plus it is fake
Idk if it was intentional, but looking into it… yeah- that’s what I’ve always interpreted Al as being. He’s evil, his religious practices don’t have anything to do with that, he just happens to use them with bad intent.
Agreed, i just hope viv and the crew does more research on it so that she doesnt go underfire again @@randomhuman_05
2:50 i like how people accuse her of not being able to take criticism because she blocks the people who hate on her but if she tried to defend herself then they would be saying « jUsT bloCK tHeM ! » and still say that she can’t handle criticism.
Reacting in either way is just a lose - lose situation if you're popular enough
@@piratethehybrid yeah…
I was playing in a Mage: The Ascension like 7 or 8 years ago. And one of the characters I ended up playing was a practitioner of Voodoo and Voldone(I've seen it spelled so many ways). I sat down and researched it for that purpose. The number one thing I found outside of some of the more analytical stuff was a lot people saying if you're not black, its not for you. A few things these specific kinds of people don't know include: there are many cross over with Christianity with saints and the loa, there are many different practices what is commonly called Voodoo, and it's basically an old school religion, not a modern one. Another interesting thing abut the loa is that since it had cross over with the saints, all they had to do is call a new name out and they were still worshiping the same loa.
Look, people want a reason to dislike projects like Hazbin Hotel. This closed religion thing is the next new thing. Soon they will find themselves back at the anger at the female newscaster again for being homophobic. The art is too stylistic. The overtones of sinners managing to turn their life around and I'm sure many people will the sinners don't deserve it. This to me has the same feeling as every other time we've seen people are upset about something they don't belong to. This has zero to do with positive or negative portrayals and all about the virtue signaling. And you know this because you're seeing people unrelated to the practitioners complaining about it.
You nailed it and even predicted one of the critics when they show came out: that sinners don't deserve redemption.
What a shocker, a person in hell is problematic who could’ve guessed
so true ronald reagan commie hunter 7070
That’s what im saying lol
@e92312Al was a serial killer still enjoys torturing others in hell possibly still kills the other sinners from time to time, Angel "what are boundaries" Dust was a Mafia member and while it's likely not a sin he basically sexually harassed Husk every opportunity he gets, Husk that we know of was a gambler which may mean if he's addicted to that he'll also likely have been pushed into some unsavory things if he got in with the wrong crowd, Vaggie is violent while she doesn't execute said violence on the cast it's very much at the forefront of her character.
Plus we don't know a lot backstory wise for Vaggie Husk and Nifty so while they seem pretty okay now Husk and Nifty in particular are influenced by Alastor basically intimidating them to be nice, or at least as nice a hell will allow.
@e92312...Because this is about them getting redeemed, sorry it's not just an 8 episode session of each of them just being assholes.
@e92312 I don't know, Alastor turning into a giant and impaling groups of people with tentacles doesn't exactly change well lol
Also that's not really a good point "Harry Potter would just be about a very violent historical academy if you removed the supernatural elements" like yeah, it would change, it would change alot, too much for the argument to actually work cause it DOES rely on the supernatural at all times, and the angel's choice of yearly extermination doesn't fit into any real society or point in history.
I don’t know why but the idea of Alastor possibly stealing voodoo or hoodoo powers just makes his character even better for me
It does seem like a fun idea. Like he dropped into hell, then he gets rid of some overlords, and one of them had the power of voodoo/hoodoo, so he took it.
That's what some old Lore and fan theories pointed at
Nah I prefer a Creole Alastor not a random white dude who stole an ethni religion.
That's the point, Viv isn't portraying it in an offensive way, there's nothing wrong with that
Or combined them with math and electronic symbols to enhance his radio powers
If I was vivzie, I'd just delete my twitter account. I can't imagine having to deal with stuff like this everyday. Even if it was offensive or inappropriate or whatever, can't people just calmly explain why it is instead of calling for the creator's head on a pike.
Most people would just see that as a win or that she really was racist. You can't stop anything by hiding. Also, even if you do calmly explain there are still many people who would not change their beliefs. It's good to try though
@@VynDimentional You stay and gets constantly harassed by the littlest of things. Go away and people will claim that as a win. Imo, you lose either way but you get bombarded with abuse with one case while the other you'll at least be able to get rid of some of the noise. I think that I'd rather let a bunch of randoms on the internet claim a meaningless victory over me than to be constantly beaten down emotionally and mentally by them.
In my experience, even if the person still won't change their minds even after being explained something rather politely and civilly, it still doesn't warrant a yelling match. Yelling and screaming about something won't get the message across because the message will just be muddled by all the noise from all the yelling.
I think she should probably log off for a while or hand the account to someone else. That way people won’t make a massive deal about it
@@khoavo510 That is true. However, most people would choose to stay out of pride than turn away.
Nah, she’s needs PR to run her account at the very least
I think that one TikTok where somebody said "I finally have an excuse to hate Vivziepop" unintentionally explains the hate pretty well- people simply hate other people for the things they have made or have been involved in simply because they hate that thing.
I mean, it's been made pretty clear. Laura Bailey got multiple death threats for her and her entire family because of the character she voiced in The Last Of Us Part II. The developer of The Coffin of Andy and Leyley got doxxed by people who has no media literacy and had to sell the rights to their game and go into hiding. (I think they're still developing the game as far as I know. They just don't have full rights to it anymore.) I could probably make an entire list of creative people who are hated for no apparently reason. People hate the creator of Attack On Titan for being "pro ethnic-cleansing" even though he can't make it any clearer that he's against it and war in the series.
People just want to hate the people behind the creations that they hate for no apparent reason.
I gotta wonder if the social media companies deliberately amplify the hate against small creators
So the reason why Viv was targeted for the Voodoo stuff instead of Princess & the frog was because Alastor doesn’t look black but he gives off more “white” vibes. So the setting & design was basically thrown off in Hazbin that using Voodoo was unnecessary if not much black people are in the spotlight. But unlike the disney movie, it was MEANT TO BE SET IN BLACK. Despite that the directors are white that is.
I saw this all go down on twitter a few days ago, it was quite the experience. I lowkey knew there would be a video on this.
It’s always twitter (now X) nowadays
I know I need to get off twitter this crap making my head hurt 😖
Yeah I'm very glad I never got on Twitter lol
Just from watching this video I would say that Viv didn't mean no harm to Alastor's character, voodoo is voodoo and she probably just wanted to make it more accurate for the character not meaning for it to be racist in any way. It's just the fact that people are going crazy again because of course something they believe in that could be 100% false
its a problem because you CANNOT portray voodoo in anything unless you get permission from the actual religion
@@lxmesoda okay ya the video did mention that but it’s also the fact that Hazbin Hotel will be aired on Tv so there had to be someone to say something about it or everyone just didn’t know the background so it could be a misunderstanding or something
@@lxmesoda Who the hell are they gonna ask? The creator of the religion from 200 years ago? Why would someone need permission to use voodoo? No one owns these things.
@@GuntherWenk I have no idea but I’m guessing there has to be some if people are getting all emotional about Alastor’s background and use of voodoo
@@lxmesoda and again this is hell we’re talking about so what was supposed to be expected
People getting mad at viz for going to a McDonald's shows that they will use everything against viz even if it makes no sense
Like, “oh, you drink water? Well that water is Nestle and Nestle is literally evil, so you buying the water anyway makes you evil too! You don’t care about human suffering!”
People need to grow up lol
I'd bet whoever made that tweet did it from a Starbucks.
Not to be that guy, but isn't that because McDonald's is supporting Isreal.
I support Viv, but I understand why maybe a few people are mad about that.
twitter brainrot
Yeah, like I never knew McDonalds Starbucks and KFC supported Israel. Why are people using that as an attack on Viv. It makes no sense. Just because one person knows this secret about a company doesn't mean everyone in the fandom knows. It's not common knowledge.
Vivzie gets criticism and responds, and people say she shouldn't feed the trolls. Vivzie gets criticism and blocks, and people say she can't take criticism.
This is why I take 0% of any of the X assholes (because it's X, not Twitter anymore) seriously. It's a no-win game of how shitty can we make a creator look today? They've pulled it with multiple other indie creators at this point. Vivzie is just their favorite target and has the most "ammunition." People need to go offline and touch grass.
If vivzie made fake voodoo symbols then still they would be hating
The people complaining aren't even creole and probably never even been to Louisiana. Also I think Vivziepop takes criticism very well, blocking someone accusing you of being racist and anti-black just because one of your characters isn't dark enough for them (which isn't even criticism, it's just an accusation to make people hate on another person)
I have to say as a black person I’m really offended over them getting upset over Alastor basically not looking “ black enough” with that logic, that means that Jasmine from the boondocks is not black enough either.
Why would people be upset over skin characters, its in bloody hell. People dont have “dark skin” its either a stone grey or pure white
As a Louisiana creole, and a native of Louisiana, I will have to agree. I really wish these people would stop using my ethnic group to attack this woman. I really wish they didn’t.
@@Milokissavlk I said this before these psychos, don’t care about any ethnic group, animators,SA victims,voodoo users, and poc they only care about being right. And I am so sorry that these idiots don’t understand anything about Louisiana.
I’m just baffled that people are only just NOW talking about the voodoo symbols Alastor has been shown to have in the background, as well as his usage of it, like, did they not watch the pilot 4 years ago? Why is it just NOW an issue?
This!
This kind of statement always made no sense to me. How is this situation problematic NOW all of a sudden, instead of when the pilot came out 4 years ago.
Because 4 years ago it was a tiny independent project, so the Twitter horde didn't have a reason to nitpick every single detail.
But now it's releasing on prime, and is trying to have fun. This makes Twitter people mad
Yeah… it really feels like they don’t actually care- they do this with queer characters too (heck, they’ve done it with Al, who’s apprently “bad ace rep”, which, as an ace person, is BS).
Yes, it is Viv and the team’s responsibility to make sure that they are being as respectful as possible (ie. hiring a consultant), especially with religion, but they are also not the literal devil for not. People that are affected by this have the right to speak up, but people who aren’t seem to be the majority- and are speaking over voodooists (is that how you spell it?) who are genuinely upset by appropriation. You are not an ally for speaking over someone, this is performative activism- hell, i feel like I’m overstepping here (and I prob am, whoops).
@randomhuman_05 it's basically always preformative activism. If people in the actual community the character is based on have issues, I've yet to see it.
exactly, this makes 0 sense i'm losing my mind rn smhh
While I do think that it is important for Vivzie to accept the criticism and respect people's opinions and make changes accordingly, but I do not think its ok for people to send threats over a debate even if their points are valid.
why should she change anything about alastor tho?
@@tonypringles2285 I LOVE ALASTOR, but I think changing the symbols would be a good think
i might have zoned out while watching. did he say what the symbols mean?@@Alastor117.
*A clone!!*
@@Alastor117.in my opinion bending the knee to Twitter and rewarding their delusional and shitty takes should be the LAST thing us sane people should do no one complained about Dr. Faciler so we will not change Alastor and just accept the double standard I refuse to sympathize or cater to these overly “woke” insane Twitter control freaks but that’s just me..
Viv: Post something
X/ Tw: 🖕🏼
I'm just picturing a 14 year old screaming "We can't go to McDonalds, mom, they sUpPorT gEnOciDe!!" Angrily eating their cold chicken nuggets later when it's clear no one is going to bring them Taco Bell. Terminally online Zoomers and Gen Alpha exhaust me.
Same, I'm very much pro-palestine but getting mad over someone buying them is so stupid? Cause MC are very cheap and for people that doesn't have the money to buy other food wouldn't care about the boycott in the first place, I know what it's like to be starving since my parents aren't well off, you gotta do what you gotta do to survive.
My best friend since the third grade cut me off because of this situation. I believe Viv isn’t the best person in the world and needs to accept criticism better, but the reason I didn’t say anything about this was because
1) I genuinely did not know a whole lot about the situation until now and I don’t like speaking out about things unless I know the full story with evidence. Even then, it’s not my obligation to talk about it.
2) I don’t like getting involved with drama because not what I think what’s going on is okay, but because I don’t get involved for the sake of my own mental health
3) As mentioned, it made me think back to Dr Facilier. He’s used VooDoo for evil and nobody seemed to care then?? And people tend to forget that Alastor is in HELL. He’s there for a reason. He’s NOT a good person.
4) As someone who doesn’t practice voodoo/ know much about it or isn’t poc, who am I to say what your representation should look like? I’m not in your shoes. If it’s YOUR culture, please speak out and educate me to understand better.
As for number 3, there were (and still are) actually people who criticised how Dr. Facilier's association with Voodoo as if it was "evil magic" was stereotypical and not actually reflective of actual Voodoo.
Though the internet being younger during the film's release meant that it wasn't to the point of toxicity and even on the internet, the conversations about the misrepresentation of Voodoo in the film was at least calmer since the makers of TPotF didn't get into too much hot water like Viv.
Sorry to hear it impacted such a long-standing friendship, even when you’re not the one on the wrong it won’t change how much that hurts to experience. It’s insidious to see a cruel cult tactic like excommunication become so normalised as a response to political disagreements, which is worsen with this modern political puritanism tendency to default to the assumption you’re an inherently bad person for not having blind faith in a narrative when your resistance to blind faith is because you actually care about both your intellectual and moral integrity and won’t concede to the hubris of uncritically indulging your own confirmation biases whenever a political narrative is presented to you.
It’s extremely reasonable to defer forming an opinion until you’re informed enough to be capable of
an authentic opinion, don’t be gaslighted into thinking otherwise. The way your friend behaved was not normal, healthy behaviour, nor acceptable even in genuine political discourse.
I can at least say from my personal experience over the years with similar falling outs with long term friends over the insanity of political culture, you’re often better off for it and it probably was an overdue inevitable. It’s not a friendship worth having if you have to yield to their will and outright lie to meet their absurd political standards. A lot of people are consciously aware to lookout for abusive behaviour in romantic partners but have a blind spot with friends and end up tolerating unacceptable behaviour far longer than we should. As you meet new people and form new friendships (which you absolutely will), that contrast of acceptable behaviour only becomes stark.
In some instances, politically radicalised friends do eventually find their way back into your life (whether it be weeks or even years after the falling out) it’s not uncommon for someone to eventually become self aware of the toxicity of their prior extremism and wilfully change for the better, but in other instances, you do sometimes lose them for good. In the later scenario just remember you’re upset over the loss of the person and friend they once were; that version of them exists in the past, you will not find them in the present, so it’s only going to hurt worse if you keep pursing something no longer attainable in the present.
Since the fight is still recent and it was such a long-standing friendship, I would at least advise not making the same mistake as them and closing off entirely to the potential to talk things out and reach an understanding. After all, people can get stupidly caught up in the angry energy of online controversies and will settle back into a more rational mindset and be capable of reconciling, but definitely be wary of restarting the friendship if the ONLY terms for reconciliation are you just letting them win, because even if that gave you access back to your friendship, it’s has major red flags they’ll mistreat you again and reuse this tactic of hurting you via cutting contact until you do and say what they want you to, which no true friend would ever do.
You didn't know better. Im sorry about what you went through. Take care, friend.
Why blame people who eat McD or Kentucky chicken instead of the company itself? Food doesn't have politics attached and for some people that's the only food places that are nearby.
Also I had no idea they were involved in any controversies,not everyone knows.
Same, I litterally just had McD for dinner, am I racist now, NO.
People are blaming the companies though. They’re actively saying “hey, whenever I eat at your restaurant, the money I spend there actively goes towards a cause that I don’t support. So I’m not going to purchase from your company anymore.” If she didn’t know then I understand that, but if she did then that’s pretty messed up. If you don’t have any other restaurants nearby to eat at then just eat at home, because while you’re concerned over whether you wanna eat at McDonalds or KFC, the people in Gaza are worried about if they’ll even have any food or water at all. They don’t have tables to eat on or anything of the sort, and it’s pretty disrespectful to just say “but food doesn’t have politics attached so I should be able to eat there” whenever you KNOW what the money you spend there will be going towards
I rlly don’t mean to sound rude but I think we should be grateful that we even get to make these choices while the people in Gaza have no choices at all
Honestly, Them using that against her is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. I'm sure that most of the people making these claims go there themselves. They are just looking for things to use against her. FOOD. IS. FOOD.
In fairness, people ARE blaming the companies themselves. They're just advising other people to be mindful on what they spend money on.
Even online, the people who advocate for Palestine make it clear to NOT attack people who eat there and instead just redirect them to better brand alternatives or outright publicly shared recipes for the burgers and drinks.
@@potentiallypittIt is okay. I think you stated your points well.
2:20 these people fail to understand that the show is literally set in hell, if voodou is portrayed it will be in a bad way, because it's hell.
Also, Alastor used his magic to fix up the hotel, showing that voodou can also be used for good.
so voodoo is demonic?
voodou can be used in anyway, good or bad. lol@@kerensahardesty9851
@@pemdemica1712what gave you that idea? Alastor went to hell because he's a cannabalistic serial killer, not because he practises voodoo
@@pemdemica1712 Incorrect. Voodou is an Afro-Haitian religion.
Just gonna put here that the original term for Zombie was in fact used in Voodoo to describe someone whose been enthralled by magic, appearing in a dazed and almost dead like state. Like they were revived from the dead to enact the will of the reviver.
I heard this long time ago so im probably butchering alot of this but safe to say Voodoo isn’t fully clean either. I do think it has been unfairly portrayed but I never got the sense that Alastor’s evil was his power it was him.
Also do they want the murderer man to be a black guy? Not sure thats good representation
“He doesn’t look black enough” Can mixed characters just exist
can we please get at least 5 minutes without people harassing Viv over something dumb? 😭
Edit: just to clarify, I am not implying that the religion of voodoo or hoodoo is dumb. Apologies if it offended anyone 😓
I'm confused. It's a literal fucking cannibalistic demon. How is he not supposed to be evil?
Her haters are all psycho nutjobs
@@coreydillon4330 like, neat you dislike it. Stop watching it. Also eating KFC and McDonald's is suddenly evil?
@@Strawberry_deer1 welcome to the Internet. people hate things for a reason as simple as “popular = bad”
@@DemonlivinginthesunPeople just love bringing in irrelevant shit to try and stir narratives do they? 🤦♂️
Yeah I honestly don't care, she isn't racist and people are just taking this s*it too far. I seriously do not belive this was on purpose. People are literally looking for any small reason to hate viv.
Also i also feel bad for Maria who’s an artist that captures Viv’s artstyle well that if one didn’t have a very sharp eye or differentiated Vivzie’s and Maria’s artstyle. Apparently she’s being harassed for the same dumb reason after tweeting a image of her and her father and apparently that she has some Creola in her blood and people came at her with the “You ain’t black” and also trying to put words in her mouth.
Edit: I think someone also dm’d her with a kys message
She actually told me that situation in a discord call and I am really disgusted how people are being racist without realizing that they are being racist. I’m personally offended, by this because my grandma (my dad’s mom) was indigenous (native American)but I am black. I’m just mixture different and this means and races.
@@sailorstar3148 oh, they know, they just know that they can get away with it
@@42seven Oh lord
No one had an issue with Walt Disney Studios for Doctor Facilier in The Princess and the Frog. No one had an issue with Don Mancini for Chucky in Child's Play. Why would anyone had an issue with Vivziepop for Alastor in Hazbin Hotel?
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again- I don’t know much about drama and I hate having to choose sides. Unfortunately it’s hard to just have a good thing nowadays, but these shows make me happy and I want to hear updates on them. I love the character writing. I have no idea what’s going on with drama, though. Whatever it is, my only hope is that it can be resolved one way or the other.
And this is why I'm happy with staying as a bystander instead of interacting with any fandom or community out there. It's always better to stay inside your own bubble and not get involved with any problems.
ESPECIALLY not on Twitter. They're out for blood over there. It's nice to lurk and view the cute fanart instead.
Exactly! I keep my mouth shut during all this discourse because I'm not one to get involved in something that feels like a waste of my time.
Yeah, I just stay off of Twitter, Tumblr, ect.
Same. Fandoms can be great when they're small, like how the RWBY fandom used to be, but when they grow to a certain point boy can they go toxic.
Stayed out of this mess because I don’t know anything about voodoo and I am not a POC so I didn’t comment on anything.
I honestly do think that she was trying to make Alastor more accurate too his origins with using the actual signs and sigils. I’ve seen all of these tweets cause my friends have sent me them and it honestly pisses me off that they’re trying to force me to believe viv is a bad person. Like people make mistakes and it is merch. She can change it if she wants and also for the later seasons of the show.
I agree with wanting people to stop harrassing her for something dumb, but i also understand the side of people not wanting misrepresentation of a religion. Eitherway, all we can hope for is for people to be mature and take the right steps to come to an agreement.
My thoughts on what viv can do:
-Hire a social media manager to avoid the stress of extreme hate and criticism. This is also good for her to be able to really think about a response and to avoid direct hate.
-listen to genuine criticism and do what needs to be done about it
I agree with the suggestion that she couldve made her own symbols instead of using actual ones from voodoo culture. But at this point its a bit too late.
My thoughts on what the audience can do:
-be respectful and helpful when giving criticism (hating on someone isnt criticism)
-leave suggestions on what can be done instead of hate comments. (remember that hate brings nothing positive to the situation)
maybe she *does* have a pr manager and it's still not going good. And it's mostly weekly when it happens. Plus on Instagram she's not acting like this.
Maybe she can add a saint character who does Voodoo too. Bringing in the fact that it's not their culture that caused him to end up in hell, but his own actions in life.
But her depiction of Christianity is totally okay huh?
It’s been 3 years since the pilot and no one noticed till now. Where now it’s to late to change things around to have like more deer like made up symbols. Because the first season comes out in like 20 days.
This is why i call twitter where problems all start, even if they make no sense.
People need to chill the hell out. It's just for a show and isn't gonna cause actual harm to anyone. Its a character with some magic and shit not a actual threat or racist stuff
True
You can't incorporate anything into a show or artwork without being called racist or sexist or some kind of prejudice anymore, everyone is so sensitive. They seriously hate her and are sending threats because she's "appropriating voodoo culture" as if anyone looked at the symbols that popped up for a few seconds and then went on to hate people who practice voodoo as a result
@@xraku3744 i didn't even know voodoo was a religious thing. i just thought it was magic stuff
@@xraku3744y’all can thank the overly woke morality police known as Twitter for that
I agree with wanting people to stop harrassing her for something dumb, but i also understand the side of people not wanting misrepresentation of a religion. Eitherway, all we can hope for is for people to be mature and take the right steps to come to an agreement.
As someone who has been practicing magick for ,10 yesrs now and knows a great deal about voodoo in all its form i feel like I can speak about this .
i honestly applaud her and the team for trying to depict the voodoo magical practice (hoodoo) accurately imo i think it would be worse if she tried to not accurately portray it But thats just my opinion,
furthermore feel like alot of ppl whoa are commenting dont practice voodoo let alone are black (but i could be wrong)
And another thing voodoo(the religion) is ofc course not an evil religion but the pracrice thats being portrayed by alastor (hoodoo) can be malicious , lemme explain. magick from whatever continent or country it comes from has always been moraly gray and can be used for good or evil its up to the practioner.
And while voodoo is a closed practice and you need permission to practice , hoodoo is not and with respect other people can pracrice . And Alastor is part creole so in the cannon of the show he would be able to practice hoodoo and or voodoo
The situation of Al not being Creole looking enough HELLO hes a demon now this is a cartoon?? Hes not supposed to look that human
well first off magic isn't real lol. plus if it was you could practice voodoo if you want because fuck anyone who says you can't do magic. but that would be if it was real lol
that's a good point. vaggie's supposed to be latino and there's nothing really in her design that denotes that (as far as i can see at least), yet i don't see a lot of people getting up in arms over it
This is really interesting to learn!
not really@@TheMonotonePuppet
@@tonypringles2285 The implied words are "This is really interesting *for me* to learn." Like most every time someone makes a declaration such as mine, they aren't talking about your subjective view. They are talking about theirs.
Thus, your sentence is, quite literally, unable to be true due to the way circular logic comes into play for statements founded on subjective views.
So take your pointless debate and shove off.
Now I don’t know about the voodoo thing but the race thing is crazy-
Al was from the 30s right? And before that, back then African Americans and people of African descent thought it was cool to have straight hair, it was in. Also people were less likely to be judged if they were lighter so al trying to fit that description makes sense.
Now I can see angel finding out he was Cajun (he’s a Cajun right? Sorry if I got that wrong!) and helping him find a way to show himself better (seriously want a scene he braids his hair cause that would be so cute) but letting everything go I understand why people are frustrated but al is from a time looking like he could pass was a want (of course passing is an awful idea and you are perfect the way you are) and that’s how he’s portrayed.
I knew when I heard he was African there was gonna be some crap but every second someone always blames the creator.
Guys so much goes into these characters, please understand how hard it can be.
He's mixed Creole; he might have been white-passing when he was alive.
So freaking true! So many people seem to be jumping to conclusions, without actually thinking about how they might be wrong. There are so many different reasons that explain why he is the way he is. They need to understand they aren't some master detective who found the fatal flaw that ruined the character or show.
Not only that, but I find the obsession with skin tone and changing the skin tone to be odd as well. Specifically because the demons are blatantly obvious. Demons with grey skin color tend to be POC in their past life, while those who are white (and one much keep in mind that white people normally are not light screensaver white) are alabaster white, with unnatural shades to highlight that uncanny side. These aren't humans anymore, and the design makers Vivzie and co actually put thought into maintaining a parallel for thoughtful representation.
especially since if you were white passing in those days, you completely leaned into it because no white person would suspect you were actually mixed and oppress you. Remember being black or even mixed was dangerous in those days. So if you could pass as white, you made yourself pass as completely white. @@kerensahardesty9851
@kerensahardesty9851 True. And even if he wasn't, who gives a flying fuck? There are characters in this show and HB who are walking talking demonic *objects*. People are just reaching as always lol.
@Jaybug8417 This is by far the whitest way you could’ve put it omg
Surprising this only happened, after she became very famous and not at the time, when the pilot was realesed
No hate to you or viv but this has always been a problem, I remember seeing people talk about it sometime around 2019-2020. Also ayylmao showed an article from 2020 talking about the same issue.
What I saw most were comments on tweets about her family saying that her family is going to die or they should die of shame or something like that. Even if this is racist (which I believe it is not) it is very disgusting to attack her family who never did anything!
CALLING HER OUT FOR EATING AT STARBUCKS, MCDONALDS AND KFC IS WILD LMFAO 2024 IS GONNA BE SO FUCKEDDDDDDDD
I saw a Christian saying that Atheism Is Child @buse but supports child marriage. What do you wanted to expect?
I mean that that whole thing is stupid anyways because let’s be for real here people aren’t gonna stop eating at those restaurant chains because they are allowed people that can’t even afford to buy groceries so in that case they’re the ones that are kind of being insensitive over people just wanting Mickey D’s.
Yay! Our new weekly dose of people finding something to hate about Viv!
To think is to risk offending someone. Ignore the people who criticise without creating.
Let’s see, as a Louisianan here, I see nothing wrong with how she portrayed Voodoo here despite not particularly being apart of the culture itself. I think she did it rather accurately, and besides, Alastor is in hell of course he won’t use his Voodoo for everyone’s best interest but his own entertainment. I don’t think she meant anything bad when making Alastor use Voodoo for evil. I mean, I don’t know, but I didn’t hear anyone whining when Angel Dust called Vaggie a “Taco” in the pilot.
I think it’s all kinda just fucked up how these people are acting. They want to ruin a perfectly good show because they think they didn’t display the culture correctly and definitive enough on Alastor’s character but yet getting upset when Vivziepop uses real Voodoo symbols. I mean heck! I think it’d be worse if she just put squiggles, that shows how much attention and work goes into it since she didn’t put simple little lines around the screen.
She didn’t really discriminate against Alastor’s race at all and has never shown (to my knowledge) that she has any ill-will towards poc. I don’t think, and I may not be on the right leg to say this, but just because you don’t depict someone else’s race and culture perfectly doesn’t label you as racist, it just means you aren’t as educated on it mate.
I always thought that racism meant that you discriminate against races that aren’t your biological one and you express disdain towards them. She did NONE of that and has showed no signs of thinking that way.
People just need to get a grip and quit whining about problems that have no reason to be fixed since they were never me in the beginning. It’s like some people say: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
Btw if you read this thanks for spending your time to see my view on this.
I saw this voodoo harassment before with one of Tracey Lackadaisy's characters, it's too coincidental.
Wait really? What character was it and when did this happen? I’m curious now
@@Rosa-he6xb serafine I think, it was a while ago on Twitter when some using a icon that looked like a fem version of Richard Watterson was going after her.
Nah as a voodoo person lackadaisy did fucking amazing man. I wanna frame theses panels on my walls.
Serafine passes the vibe check.
(Alastor fails the vibe check)
I can't comment on the Voodoo part but I can comment on Creole. As a mixed person people who have black in their family can appear white as hell. I'm a great example as I have a white parent and a black parent yet look white. The only give away is my hair but a lot of people have curly hair, black or white. Plus, there was that woman in history who was so light that she was able to dress as a white man and escape slavery with her husband. (Ellen Smith Craft) How is this possible? Deep rooted genes.
Alastor could've had white family that just popped up in his genetics that made him look white. There's been stories of black couple who've given birth to white babies and vice versa. These occurrences are caused by great ol' granddaddy's genes deciding to bombard the baby randomly. Same thing could've happened to Alastor, giving him light (But not completely white) skin and maybe straight hair. Or he could've liked straightening his hair, and it refelected on his demon form.
Speaking of demon form, maybe he looks that way because he's a demon and it's just reflecting his death somehow. If his current death is still canon, maybe his straight hair is from the fact that deer have straight hair. It's fucking hell. Anything could be possible.
That's my take on the race situation. And if you decide to ignore everything I said, than at least take this away. Let's please leave the fucking voice actors alone. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
how does this comment not have any replies? you helped me understand things from a different perspective and it helped me a lot, thank you for taking the time to write.
@@carolscarlette of course! I just felt like I needed to take a stand as a person who's passably white.
Aaaaaa! Thank you thank you God thank you! As an actual, Louisiana creole person, there’s a couple important things to know number one Louisiana Creole is a culture and an ethnic group and not a race. Fun fact, you can be fucking white and be a Louisiana creole again it’s a culture, not a race. Although our culture is very much dinghies by its its mixed history and yeah you are completely right Louisiana creole a very wide variety of looks. I get told I’m faking being a creole because the fact I have blonde hair and blue eyes and am very pale. But it makes sense since one side of my family is Eastern European and the other side of my family is creole who could pass for white. There’s no one way to look Louisiana creole we’re a culture again. And again your point on him being mixed is completely right. Thank you!
@@Milokissavlk your welcome! My mom, grandma, and great grandma all look mixed despite them being fully black. Since I'm actually mixed, you can imagine what that did to my skin a lot of my friends find out I'm mixed and are shocked. It's hilarious. But yeah. Just because I look white doesn't mean my black side just disappeared from the face of the earth.
Same I’m mixed but I look white and I have curly hair but people assume I’m white because of my skin
People keep assuming it'll be bad... I had mild familiarity with the faith before HH, and seeing Alastor with Veves drawn so well made me research more. If it weren't for the pilot I'd have never gotten deep enough to understand what being closed means to them. Alastor helped spur me to find a new understanding of not just the faith he's tied to but others with similar practices.
To those immediately assuming it will be bad rep I want to ask: What if it's good?
If it's bad it goes on the steaming trash fire of other bad takes... But if it's good, done with respect, and becomes dynamic representation then what?
This feels like the exact same experience I've had in the trans community whenever we get wind of a gender nonconforming character or cross dressing scene, there's this same tension and risk of bad rep. Everytime.
As a polytheist I know every uncommon faith has people who have this reaction, and for good reason... But we can't expect to ever see good rep if we always snap at any whiff of our practices. It's a closed practice, I get that, but that's never stopped anyone wanting to hurt it, so why snap before the proof of ill will? Save that fury for when we have the full scenes to show how and why it's wrong so that people can learn how it should be done; teach them the right way, and explain how it should be.
Honestly, i'm impressed by Viv's ability to take this stuff so easily. I'd have rage-quitted Twitter ages ago over people being idiots lol
The funny part is that alastor ended up in hell because he's a homicidal and a cannibal, not because of voodoo
If anyone wonders part of why troublesome creators doubledown in their positions, this is why. Yelling at them, sending them death threats isn't going to fix the issue. If anything, she'll double down and continue whatever. We should talk about it, maybe in a more positive manner. Sending them death threats if disgusting. Even with JK Rowling, I wouldn't tell her to kill herself. I don't think Vivziepop deserves it or the voice actor of Alastor in the series proper.
Anyone wants to know why she reacts the way she does, this is why. Yelling at her, swearing at her, and sending death threats at her will just make things worse.
Perhaps talk about it, hear her side how she plans to portray voodoo, hear from voodoo practioners and see how it all plays out.
What are your thoughts on the tiny drama Vizie got into because she visited an Owl Cafe during her trip to Japan?
She better have made a dark humor joke in a post or something because if she just visited it than she or other creators cannot live their life normally
@@marcosrangel2988It's more about the reputation of Owl Café than anything having to do with Vizie herself
Hold on... what the hell is an owl cafe... and where can i find it?
@@DudeYoureAWondernot really, Owl Café aren't exactly the most ethical thing out there due to the fact they feature humans being able to touch and interact with animals that are not fond of being touched/bothered
@@TyeGraybill-um4doThey're basically Café that have live owls all around in the place. Frpm what i found, they're mostly popular in Japan. I'd also advice against going to them since unlike Dog/Cat Cafés, Owls aren't very fond of humans
99% people who complain about Alastor’s ties to voodoo are whiter than a snowstorm lmao
Theyre just shitty because they just outright hate the show. They need to just grow up and stop getting mad because people dont believe what they believe.
Like i could go on a tirad against non-Scandinavian/Germanic people appropriating asatru and butching it/using it for white supremacist shit.
I live a better and more fulfilled life, simply because I don't use Twitter. If anything is evil, it's this disgrace of an app that brings out the worst in humanity. I will celebrate on the day it shuts down like a holiday.
me too I regret having entered just to see the controversy and comment, that place really brings out the worst in me
I think putting effort into the proper portrayal of different cultures is extremely important, however, I do not think Viv is intentionally being malicious here. I think she's just naive and I certainly don't think people should be sending her death threats over this. Also, there's the fact that the show is already complete as in production is done and changing what they've already done with Alistair would further delay the show which the fans were also complaining about People like to think that situations like this are strictly black and white, Where Viv is clearly evil for portraying Allister in this way and they are objectively good for pointing it out but in reality the situation is gray. It's a little bit more complicated than that and I think people have a hard time understanding that. I think yes, it would be great if more television portrayed people of color properly, but it's also a fundamental problem in our education system and the people who are portraying. These cultures improperly are not doing it out of malicious intent but out of naivety
I feel like people are also forgetting how long ago the pilot aired. It was in the 2010s. Literally nobody was thinking about "the unjust depiction of voodoo in pop culture". Plus even if the pilot was aired this year, Viv didn't exactly have a team of executives debating over whether something is offensive like how every new show does. It just feels super unfair to hold up a pilot - which is basically a rough draft of a show, where the creators are still trying to figure out the goddamn base plot - and compare it to a meticulously combed through netflix show which has a boardroom of at least a dozen executives debating on every line.
Also that macdonalds tweet made me laugh. I feel like calling someone a genocidal racist maniac for having a coffee is part of the reason why people are getting so desensitized to horrible world events. Like... Random twitter user, you are the problem here. Not the girl eating a big mac. They really looked at the genocide and thought "How can I make this about me?" Smfh
Some extra parts cus I feel the replies coming:
Yes, I do think it's good that shows are trying to be more culturally sensitive and I think it's good they invest so much into that. I'm just saying that it isn't fair or even logical to compare that to, what was at the time, a small indie show.
No, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be trying to hold the companies themselves accountable. I think we absolutely should be. But hating on a random person who has no affiliation with Macdonalds (to my knowledge) and was just... eating some fries? Like... What is the point? You're just wasting your time being mad at the wrong people and making everyone who shares your views on macdonalds look like idiots who just want to get mad and use wars and horrible events as justification. It is inherently selfish, hence the whole "how can I make this about me".
Homie, it came out in 2019
It sure as hell mattered.
Also, there's no excuses, man.
Lackadaisy is indie, yet it did it freaking amazingly.
I love hazbin but this ain't it cheif.
@p0p525 I get where you're coming from but lackadaisy doesn't have any voodoo in it?? I don't think?
@@howtobesuitcase2758
Yeah, they did! In the comics, actually!
@p0p525 Oh I didn't know it had comics lol
How many times do we have to teach you a lesson, old man?!
Twitter: I'm just jealous of someone being more successful than me despite doing horrible things in the past that they've apologized for.
Well shit, I suppose these people should also cancel:
- Saints Row 2
- Princess and the Frog
- Pirates of the Carrabin
- Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
- Dead by Daylight
- Batman
- Scooby Doo
- Child's Play
- Dr. Who
- Law & Order
I could go on.
Look, I can't imagine what it must be like, seeing your faith portrayed so poorly. It's a vast injustice, and I agree something should be done. However, this is not the way to see any kind of positive change accomplished. Vivizipop is a small-time animator, and her choice to make Alastor use voodoo doesn't seem to be done with malice, despite what the Twitter horde seems to think. I very highly doubt *most* of those depictions mentioned above were done maliciously. Yes, Hollywood has twisted the public opinion on voodooism to a very bad degree. I may not be of that faith, but I don't need to be to see the injustice that is done to it and those who practice it.
However, dogpiling small creators and even movie directors won't fix the issue. The best way to do this is to have someone to speak up for you on a larger scale, without being belligerent or rude. If you want bees, use honey. Fling shit, and all you'll get are flies. People are more responsive when someone is civil in their discourse. And honestly, the finger should be pointed at Hollywood and the damage they do to the image of Voodoo, not the individual. Claiming Viv is a racist because she eats fast food is ridiculous; far more likely she's just unaware of who or what the company supports and just wants a damn burger when she's hungry.
Honestly, someone needs to step up and speak on this topic publicly, in a way that will gain traction and put eyes on the topic. I don't believe it's beyond fixing, and the world would benefit from a better understanding of the voodoo faith. However, one cannot bash *all* depictions of their faith in a bad light as racist. Everyone has bad eggs, you have to admit. From Christianity, to Voodooism, to even Atheism; everyone has those who would use their faith for nefarious means, and in the case of voodooism, it's oftentimes given a degree of power that most faiths lack. Is this representative of the faith? No. Is Dr. Facilier one of the coolest villains of all time? Yes!
Strive to better the world's view of your faith through healthy discourse, and you'll find more flowers than weeds. Target the large corporations and companies that belittle you, not the small creator who was probably raised with a poor conception of your faith. Speak up in a non-hostile way and let your voices be heard. I don't need to be a person of color to know the struggle is never that simple; I live in an area where people of color are afforded more opportunities than most places, so sometimes I miss the forest for the trees. But threats, violence, and accusations accomplish nothing but reinforcing a negative view of those who would defend the faith from misrepresentation.
Do I think Alastor should have used more generic symbols? I don't think it would have harmed his character to do so. However, given the time of Alastor's death, the location of where he lived while alive, and his racial background, it's not unheard of that maybe the guy who was sent to Hell might be evil because he's a sociopathic murderer, not because he's a practitioner of Voodooism...?
People are looking too deep into it. They're just looking for things in bad faith just to get brownie points. It isn't that deep.
I don’t think Viv was trying or intending on being racist, voodoo is usually just associated with evil, but when using real world symbols it’s important to do thorough research, and more than likely she didn’t get permission, but she probably didn’t know and didn’t mean anything by it just a misunderstanding that twitter took way too seriously
Article: Recommends Alastor uses symbols
Viv: Makes Alastor use symbols for voodoo
Twitter: fucking explodes
4:00 Now that one is pathetic and doesn't help any actual genocide victims; One, those photos dont have dates on them, and two the rage behind Boycotts is always meant to be directed at the industries and companies doing the thing, not random people who you want to cancel or mob on
I hope Viv doesn’t take all this serious and just continues with how Alastor’s character is. I love Al as he is now❤
Vivziepop: does reasonable adult thing blocks, and not lash out, and goes on with what’s done is done
Twitter: aaaaaaahh 🤬
(I understand bad betrayal of voodoo but I think racism wasn’t intended)
I’m sorry but anyone ranting on twitter doesn’t have a proper education on any of these topics.
Oh my goodness, I’m Jamaican and I don’t like spicy food. Guess I should delete myself for not representing my rac- actually stfu, Alastor does not have to have a design representing his creole heritage just to be cannonically creole.
Also what if Alastor happens to be a voodou practioner, and also HAPPENS to be evil at the same time.
This reminds me of the old joker meme from batman "vizi writes a whole series based on Christianity and no one bats an eye. But she puts some voodoo in it and everyone looses there minds"
I dont think that any religion is bad or evil, but there will always be people within a religion who do evil things. And I think thats just one of the overall themes of her story. Since it seems shes portraying some angels as evil. My theory is just that it's part of the story to highlight religious people can be either good or bad, it depends more on the person and not necessarily the religion. But its just theory at this point since the show is not out.
Based off of the comments, there seems to be some misunderstanding. They used real voodoo symbols in the creation of his character that are tied to actual practices and cultural spirits. It’s not the same as a character having a rosary or an evil eye, it’s more like how people carelessly throw around the name ‘skin-w@lk3r’ as a simple folktale instead of a dangerous entity from Navajo culture or how people disrespect/ dismiss superstitions from cultures. (Or even in the likeness of the usage of ouija or spiritual rituals for entertainment.)
The issue is not that Alastor is a character associated with voodoo, but how they represented that. Characters whom practiced voodoo like Dr. Facilier had a kinship with demons, had voodoo dolls, used tarot and had shrunken heads. While it might have been stereotypical, neither character had the usage of legitimate sigils like vèvè, which in general terms could be more worrisome considering they represent an actual spell or even sometimes spirits or gods. In this case, his association with death was a concern and other sigils that were misused, which in general is a big no no in any spiritual practice.
The issue lays in the misusage of cultural symbols and lack of better handling with this character’s culture. Especially considering the repercussions one can receive spiritually when disrespect is shown to such important cultural symbols. Though it must be admitted that some people blew this topic way out of proportion, it still is an issue and shouldn’t just be dismissed.
Hell, even My Little Pony handled the idea of a culturally spiritual character better with Zecora.
lol actual spell? repercussions? dude thinks magic is real
@@tonypringles2285 No, but I’m speaking about religious practices and their equivalent to prayers. There’s no need to be disrespectful.
Yep, the usage of actual symbols is the issue here, not whatever weird crap people are doing on twitter.
Season one is already done but I hope the team learns from this mistake and avoids this with season 2 because yi k e s.
voodoo is a "religion" to be disrespectfully to@@Mr.Munster
And it took these clowns 4+ years after the pilot of this show to make a big stink about it and "care" about the depiction of it? Just in time for the shows official release early next year... That's one helluva timing ain't it?
People have cried wolf about Vivzie so much any criticism has lost all meaning. Even if these were legitimate claims, which they are not, I can't take them seriously because of how people have gone after her and the show about anything and everything. I'm not some super fan saying Vivzie or the show is above reproach, but it's all just white noise now and I just can't care any more I am out of fucks to give.
Voodoo has been depicted in all sorts of media for years now, from cartoons and tv shows to novels and movies, and this is the first time I and many people have heard any complaint or backlash about depicting voodoo/vodou/hoodoo. I am sure a majority of the chronically online people who are complaining are not Creole, Cajiun, Southern, Haitian, or practice vodou. Ridiculous.
Alastor is the best character in this whole thing, along with being one of Vivzies oldest creations. I think a lot of people recognise that if they tear this character down the show and Viv would likely come down with it. But these are pretty weak arguments. No one who enjoys this show is out here thinking Voodoo is evil, she could have made Al from anywhere, but made him from Louisiana and canonically half creole to respect voodoo’s heritage, and at the end of the day, with regards to his design, I haven’t seen anyone complaining that POC don’t have fluffy ears and antlers. Calm down.
I'm legit tired of people going around and harassing VivziePop left and right. Like, I get it, she doesn't take criticism that well but there's some things you have to remember.
1. Even though Alastor is half Creole, that does NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN he should be black or have "more Creole looking appearances". Genetics are a big part in how a person looks, so one side of his family might be black Creole, but the other side might be white.
2. When people were calling her out for racist stuff in those tweets, I looked at the images in the video, and SURPRISE SURPRISE, NOTHING RACIST IS THERE. Also, I'm pretty sure one wouldn't go out of their way to give a character voodoo powers because of its cultural roots. Also, Voodoo originated about 6,000 years ago in West and Central Africa, but became more mainstream between the 16th and 19th centuries. There's also a misconception about voodoo being used to harm people/animals due to popular culture (even though its used in the show because its fiction, what are ya gonna do) when instead its mainly used for healing and expelling evil spirits.
3. SEPARATE THE ART FROM THE ARTIST PEOPLE, MY GOSH
Anyway, drink some water, touch some grass, hug your family/friends, and have a good one!
Honestly, experiencing this kind of drama on something that I have no experience with just really gave me a headache. Sure, this kind of criticism is valid and should be discussed by the ones who are uncomfortable by this. And of course, Viv not doing the best thing to respond to criticism is nothing new and she should've really responded to this issue. I like Viv and her casual tweets she makes on Twitter, but she really needs to handle criticism like a mature human being. I guess she doesn't want to be harrassed by her haters when she does make a response to this. But, at least say something.
Viewing this drama was such a pain in the neck that I just wish this year could just be over already. I was just minding my own business as usual, to then coming across yet another drama discourse when it is almost Christmas time just really gave me a headache. Like, can we just go for a week without the need to cause a big riot on Twitter. This is why I always keep my mouth shut when drama comes into play because I am not an idiot who spews out random defenses to whatever is shown within the discourse. I just hate partaking myself in drama and I just watch it die down after a day or two.
Overall, this drama is very complicated since I am no expert on the usage of voodoo and how it is portrayed through Alastor. I like Alastor as a character and his role as a radio overlord who smiles all the time. But if this is problematic for certain individuals, let them voice their criticisms. Just... for the love of god, don't harass anyone to the point where it becomes a nasty discourse for the umpteenth time.
well their criticisms are wrongs lol
This turned out to be more of a tangent than I planned. Sorry in advance. TLDR is that poor, uneducated takes like the tweet about Palestine should not be elevated in tandem with more valid criticism.
Look, I don’t think I’m educated enough to take a stance on many of these points. I don’t know enough about voodoo culture to form a fair opinion.
But that tweet about her eating at fast food places and Palestine is a brain-dead negative IQ take. I’m not against Palestine, and I’m not trying to weigh in on the conflict. But saying someone is racist for wasting at KFC is a work of idiocy. I can’t speak for MDs and KFC, but I know the Starbucks criticism is either mischaracterized or outright debunked. Someone is not “racist” and “promoting genocide” by posting pictures of fast food. I’m flabbergasted that I even have to say that.
I wouldn’t be commenting about this, however, I believe highlighting bad take comments like this is extremely harmful to civil discussion and debate. I appreciate your commentary videos, but I do believe it’s important that you focus on bringing to light legitimate criticisms, and the discussion that surrounds them.
The Palestinian rights movement is serious and important, and elevating these moronic, almost conspiratorial takes only hurts the movement’s image, and shifts the conversation away from valid criticism and discourse based in fact and common sense, to arguments based on delusion and hysteria. But most importantly, it lumps valid, legitimate criticism that a discussion can be had around in with the brainless and idiotic takes twitter is known for, resulting in a lack of civility even when criticism is valid.
Again, I’m not scolding you. This is just some feedback for future videos as I really appreciate you breaking down controversy. I’m super excited for Hazbin but I believe that some criticism is valid and it’s important to separate logical feedback from insane, non-factual rants.
He is literally the coolest character in the show and your going to dial back on the voodoo come ooooon
“They say his design doesn’t reflect his culture or race enough” excuse me?? Look at me. Do I look like I’m of Uzbek/middle eastern descent? What, am I supposed to put on one of those square shaped hats I’ve always seen in my childhood and be seen simultaneously eating osh and samsa while waving a blue, white, and green flag?? I regret installing twitter man
Holy shit, people on Twitter are insane. I audibly gasped at the Starbucks, McDonalds, and KFC Tweet, like, actually stfu.
Fr though, I guess going to very popular restaurant chains is racist now
Bruh this whole situation is completely dumb. I’m from Louisiana and almost everyone here that sells stuff uses at least some type of voodoo depiction. I’m black as well as see no problem with this stuff being used because at the end of the day it isn’t about what happened in the past. It’s about how it brings the character together and there’s nothing wrong with her using real voodoo symbols because at the end of the day it’s a animated series that isn’t real nor has any physical influence on the outside world
All I was thinking is that just because character is a bad guy that happens to use voodoo doesn’t mean that it’s vilifying voodoo. Just like if a bad person is gay that doesn’t mean that’s vilifying LGBT because surprise surprise not everyone in every group is as sweet as cupcakes.
@@sailorstar3148 yeah exactly. It’s like their trying to create a problem just because they don’t like the creator yet they overlook how others do the exact same thing
I feel like most of those people commenting are white people- just me? Ok I’ll god sit back down
Just yes, these people like clearly have never walked through New Orleans. How many poppet do you see on shops near or around Bourbon Street?
Im just really disappointed that the cards spoiled so much
Good thing I’m ignoring them.
They didn’t spoil anything?
@randomhuman_05 they spoiled so much, they literally spoiled the climax
Wait, voodoo is a religion?
Wait, that one mobile game can use voodoo dolls, but alastor can’t?
Why is everybody treating literal racism as dumb unfounded drama... Viv has been harrassed for stupid stuff for no reason before, but this is legitimately bad and should be criticised. Harrassment is never okay, but the people who brought this up are getting much more harrasment than Viv or her crew. You can still like hazbin hotel, but if you arent black or know extensively about voudoo then you cant talk over the voices of the people being actively harmed and sum their criticism as drama for the sake of drama
I’m black and I think this drama is incredibly stupid and twitter users are morons
Literally everytime there is Viv drama its just people making stuiped claims and getting all upset over small things but this time I see were people are coming from but I don't really have much say in this matter so idk