There’s no true way to get rid of the wobble. I’ve heard people say certain morphs will help lessen the wobble but there’s scientific proof. The wobble is just part of working with spider. Like I’ve said before though the majority of spiders have a minor to zero wobble issues. The ones with major issues are few and far between.
I feel like if anyone is going to be but hurt over any ball python morph it should be super cinnamon,super black pastel, and caramel for all the kinking that happens
I think another part of it is husbandry, if you don’t have a proper set up and care it’s going to stress the snake out which in my opinion would cause a more severe wobble. Awesome video!
Thank you and I do agree. Stress has been known to amplify the wobble in some cases. They’re just like us if we are overly stressed we are more likely to do stupid crap 🤣 thanks for watching
Hey! I really enjoyed this video! I'm so glad that someone else knows about the inner ear malformation neurological issue!!! Spider was one of my first ball python morphs and I dreamed of making a bumblebee! My girl Widow made that happen in my second season, 2023. I also try to keep my spider breeders to the females.
I love the spider morph. the breeded I got my snake from is striving to breed healthy spider babies and they look fantastic and eat well, too. I don't have any BP (yet) but I'd love an axhantic spider
Axanthic is so amazing in spider. I will have an Orange Dream axanthic Spider for sale here shortly once it has the ammount of meals I require them to have before I put them up for sale. Check out the video of clutch 8 for this year 👍
Hi! Biologist here. Just wanted to share some information. As interesting as this video is, its a bit misguided/misinformed. There are some studies looking into the spider morph (primary ones are from 2014, 2020, and 2022). To synthesize them: the morph has an inner ear deformity which leads to damaged/little spatial awarness which causes the wobble (corkskrewing, poor strike window, stargazing, etc.), as well as possible profound deafness. Essentially, for the entire life of this animal, they cannot tell up from down, and they likely cannot experience their surroundings in a significant way. The scientists also comment about corticosteroid levels (stress hormones) possiblt being elevated compared to the normal or wildtype ball pythons, but need further study for definite results. Your comment about the single case being found in the wild is likely true, but extremely misguided, as a single event occuring is not statistically significant (not scientifically supported). Overall, please do not influence the purchase or production of these animals. While they may be able to survive with intense care and love, it is incredibly cruel and honestly disgusting to continue to knowingly produce deformed animals simply because you think they 'look cool'. Do better please.
I’ve bred and kept spiders and spider combos for years now and I can tell you that they don’t take intense care at all. They require the same level of care as any other ball python. All of the spiders that I have act very much like a normal ball python and honestly show very very little wobble if any along with eating fine and living the life of any other ball python. Just by breeding snakes in general you run the risk of producing animals with major deformities and life altering conditions as with any animal. There are many other morphs and combos that are highly sought after that have issues with bad kinking or other genes that cause wobble. Those genes however seem to get a free pass for some reason. The point of my video was to show that spider ball pythons can and do act just like any other ball python. That the majority of them exhibit little to no wobble issue. Thank you for your opinion and for watching the video.
@Tyonka you can’t do spider to spider pairings. Spider to spider is a lethal combo and the babies will die from that pairing. No super spider has survived that was ever made. You MUST breed spider to other genetics and also know what other genetics are in the spider complex so you don’t run the chance of amplifying the wobble.
I think you misunderstand why people are against the spider morph, people are not against it, because they think the wobble is genetic, they are against it, because the wobble exists in the first place. Saying "yeah well my snakes are fine look at them" is a weird copium argument, like yeah great that YOUR snakes are doing good, but you can't just look at one side and ignore the other one. spider snakes with really bad head wobbles do exist, even if it's just a minority and breeding them means you are willing to take the risk to produce snakes with said extreme wobble. Instead of arguing over which side is right or wrong, maybe people should be more informative about the spider morph. I am sure, there are people out there who did not know about the head wobble, got a spider and were "unlucky" that their snake developed a severe wobble. I mean why would they think, that this nice looking pattern can come with issues, when nobody tells them?
I do agree with you that the wobble is what the issue is. But there are ALOT of other genes that have issues that are worse than the spider that nobody talks about or ignore due to it being a key ingredient in clown combos for instance.
@@WarfelsMorphs well in that case I think it is definitely important to shine a spotlight on those genes as well. my comment was focusing on the spider morph specifically, since it was what the video focused on, but parts of what I said applies to any problematic gene.
I have Mum and daughter Bumblebee and a four gene Spider combo also a Dam. No wobble in any of them due to interactions of other morphs likely. Ive always called them a specialist keeper morph. Temperature needs to be bang on as humidity, they love ASFs and tanned rats for some reason. I Love them, third time mum this year she naturally hasn't produced a single gene spider.
I love my spider. She does really good the only thing is she won't eat nothing bigger then a mouse so u just feed her two to three mice at a meal. But she is great
They are beautiful snakes, and I'm glad you take a lot of care in breeding them to be high quality snakes, however I'm still not sure, even with it being an inner ear issue, that it's worth it for the snake. With it being inner ear and not neurological that basically means for the snakes with the wobble that their constant lived experience is mild to extreme dizziness right? I don't see how you can morally say that it's fine to breed snakes that you know have a chance of having mild to sever dizziness their whole life just because they look cool (which I'll admit, they do look very cool). Also I think another reason they are purchase more at shows than online may be because people can varify how much of a wobble the snake has. If you dont know the breeder, you may not trust when they say it has little or no wobble online, but at a show they can see for themselves how little wobble it has
I don’t think that they live in a constant state of “dizziness”. If that were the case they would do all sorts of weird stuff all the time. Only time I have noticed any of them acting odd with the wobble would be if you had them picked up off the ground and not supporting them properly. But unless any of us can get inside their body we will never truly know. I don’t produce a lot of spider and only have it in limited projects currently. But that being said since I have been fortunate to be able to produce great examples of the gene is definitely the main reason I do still work with it. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
The spider gene in Ball Pythons can cause a neurological condition known as "wobble" in some individuals, which can affect their quality of life. Some breeders choose not to breed spiders due to ethical concerns about potentially passing on this condition to offspring.
The wobble issue if you watched the video has been shown it is NOT neurological. The wobble which I also talk about in the video is due to a deformity of the inner ear. There have been head scans done of non spiders and spiders and the deformity appeared in the spiders. However the severity of the wobble varies. Spiders thrive just as well as any other ball python morph I can assure you of that. The majority of spiders also don’t show any severe wobble issue I should add. One cause of the wobble issue to show up is stress due to people not providing them with the proper husbandry. There are many other genes that have much worse issues such as deadly kinking and major deformities but people still work with those and go for the combos with issues. Bottom line is spiders thrive and lead a life just as good as any other ball python. Thank you for watching and for your comment.
@@WarfelsMorphs Yeah 100% and I also think they should be illegal to breed and sell. I just don’t understand the logic gymnastics people do to justify it. Regardless if some or ‘most’ of the spiders turn out okay or just have a “mild” wobble, there will inevitably be ones with terrible wobbles and poor quality of life. Why would anyone intentionally breed an animal knowing that some of them will have a debilitating neurological issue? I don’t think anyone can change my mind on this. Plus there are so many other really awesome morphs that don’t cause issues! Makes 0 sense to me and they are only bred out of greed. Shame on anyone who breeds morphs with known health issues
@@WarfelsMorphs Is it really worth the risk though? It seems unethical to breed a morph that is more likely to struggle than other morphs. Just because it can occur in other morphs doesn't make it better. No animal deserves to struggle in life just because someone likes an aesthetic. Pugs for example.
@@wwlchen1178 It should not be sold or bred. People who do so are immoral in my eyes. Yeah, yeah the wobble isn't that bad! But it is neural issue and those are degenerative. The spider gene needs to go away. Keep what's currently around but breed no more of it. I've heard the arguments of, oh it's not that bad! The snake is fine! For now sure. What about in 5 years? What if it gets really stressed and just starts a downward spiral? You're damning the animal to a cruel death for vanity. From a breeder perspective... That neurological issue is tied directly to the gene. They all have that wobble, it can't be bred out. There's only one known originating point for all spiders. Nobody has, to the best of my knowledge, ever produced a viable super despite it being a co-dom gene. Rescue these animals, but don't buy them from breeders. Stop encouraging this.
Well thankfully the spiders that I’ve produced act no different than your normal ball python. I’ve found that there’s more spiders that have very little to no wobble than what there are showing a sever wobble.
Haha I think you are talking about the “Snake Discoveries” video. You could tell they didn’t know very much about ball pythons when they were talking in that video.
No snake discovery knows their stuff and are very highly respected in the community and industry. I believe their name was goherpin or something like that. I also heard that they are no more as well.
Great video!! I agree with you, I love the spider gene and what it does. I also keep my spider in the females.
I honestly think that’s the best way to go if you can when working breeding projects with spider.
I heard there is a way to go agaisnt the wobble by breeding a specific morph against a snake carrying spider.. Idk if it is right tho
There’s no true way to get rid of the wobble. I’ve heard people say certain morphs will help lessen the wobble but there’s scientific proof. The wobble is just part of working with spider. Like I’ve said before though the majority of spiders have a minor to zero wobble issues. The ones with major issues are few and far between.
I feel like if anyone is going to be but hurt over any ball python morph it should be super cinnamon,super black pastel, and caramel for all the kinking that happens
I think another part of it is husbandry, if you don’t have a proper set up and care it’s going to stress the snake out which in my opinion would cause a more severe wobble. Awesome video!
Thank you and I do agree. Stress has been known to amplify the wobble in some cases. They’re just like us if we are overly stressed we are more likely to do stupid crap 🤣 thanks for watching
Hey! I really enjoyed this video! I'm so glad that someone else knows about the inner ear malformation neurological issue!!! Spider was one of my first ball python morphs and I dreamed of making a bumblebee! My girl Widow made that happen in my second season, 2023. I also try to keep my spider breeders to the females.
It’s a shame that it gets treated like it does. It’s def one of my favorite morphs to work with.
I love the spider morph. the breeded I got my snake from is striving to breed healthy spider babies and they look fantastic and eat well, too. I don't have any BP (yet) but I'd love an axhantic spider
Axanthic is so amazing in spider. I will have an Orange Dream axanthic Spider for sale here shortly once it has the ammount of meals I require them to have before I put them up for sale. Check out the video of clutch 8 for this year 👍
Great video bro and spider is super cool 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks Patrick! I love it but I’m keeping it only in certain projects
@@WarfelsMorphs always welcome bro and it’s always good to play it safe
Hi! Biologist here.
Just wanted to share some information. As interesting as this video is, its a bit misguided/misinformed. There are some studies looking into the spider morph (primary ones are from 2014, 2020, and 2022).
To synthesize them: the morph has an inner ear deformity which leads to damaged/little spatial awarness which causes the wobble (corkskrewing, poor strike window, stargazing, etc.), as well as possible profound deafness. Essentially, for the entire life of this animal, they cannot tell up from down, and they likely cannot experience their surroundings in a significant way.
The scientists also comment about corticosteroid levels (stress hormones) possiblt being elevated compared to the normal or wildtype ball pythons, but need further study for definite results.
Your comment about the single case being found in the wild is likely true, but extremely misguided, as a single event occuring is not statistically significant (not scientifically supported).
Overall, please do not influence the purchase or production of these animals. While they may be able to survive with intense care and love, it is incredibly cruel and honestly disgusting to continue to knowingly produce deformed animals simply because you think they 'look cool'.
Do better please.
I’ve bred and kept spiders and spider combos for years now and I can tell you that they don’t take intense care at all. They require the same level of care as any other ball python. All of the spiders that I have act very much like a normal ball python and honestly show very very little wobble if any along with eating fine and living the life of any other ball python.
Just by breeding snakes in general you run the risk of producing animals with major deformities and life altering conditions as with any animal. There are many other morphs and combos that are highly sought after that have issues with bad kinking or other genes that cause wobble. Those genes however seem to get a free pass for some reason.
The point of my video was to show that spider ball pythons can and do act just like any other ball python. That the majority of them exhibit little to no wobble issue. Thank you for your opinion and for watching the video.
@Tyonka you can’t do spider to spider pairings. Spider to spider is a lethal combo and the babies will die from that pairing. No super spider has survived that was ever made. You MUST breed spider to other genetics and also know what other genetics are in the spider complex so you don’t run the chance of amplifying the wobble.
I think you misunderstand why people are against the spider morph, people are not against it, because they think the wobble is genetic, they are against it, because the wobble exists in the first place.
Saying "yeah well my snakes are fine look at them" is a weird copium argument, like yeah great that YOUR snakes are doing good, but you can't just look at one side and ignore the other one. spider snakes with really bad head wobbles do exist, even if it's just a minority and breeding them means you are willing to take the risk to produce snakes with said extreme wobble.
Instead of arguing over which side is right or wrong, maybe people should be more informative about the spider morph. I am sure, there are people out there who did not know about the head wobble, got a spider and were "unlucky" that their snake developed a severe wobble. I mean why would they think, that this nice looking pattern can come with issues, when nobody tells them?
I do agree with you that the wobble is what the issue is. But there are ALOT of other genes that have issues that are worse than the spider that nobody talks about or ignore due to it being a key ingredient in clown combos for instance.
@@WarfelsMorphs well in that case I think it is definitely important to shine a spotlight on those genes as well.
my comment was focusing on the spider morph specifically, since it was what the video focused on, but parts of what I said applies to any problematic gene.
I have Mum and daughter Bumblebee and a four gene Spider combo also a Dam. No wobble in any of them due to interactions of other morphs likely. Ive always called them a specialist keeper morph. Temperature needs to be bang on as humidity, they love ASFs and tanned rats for some reason. I Love them, third time mum this year she naturally hasn't produced a single gene spider.
Spider is one of my favorites! ❤❤
It does things that no other morph does and makes a look like no other.
I love my spider. She does really good the only thing is she won't eat nothing bigger then a mouse so u just feed her two to three mice at a meal. But she is great
That’s just a ball python being a picky ball python lol so glad to see some spider love!
We have a Barnhart Black pastel banana spider het Pied male. He was pink as a baby.
Spiders are so cool with how they look. Axanthic I think is where they shine the most.
They are beautiful snakes, and I'm glad you take a lot of care in breeding them to be high quality snakes, however I'm still not sure, even with it being an inner ear issue, that it's worth it for the snake. With it being inner ear and not neurological that basically means for the snakes with the wobble that their constant lived experience is mild to extreme dizziness right? I don't see how you can morally say that it's fine to breed snakes that you know have a chance of having mild to sever dizziness their whole life just because they look cool (which I'll admit, they do look very cool).
Also I think another reason they are purchase more at shows than online may be because people can varify how much of a wobble the snake has. If you dont know the breeder, you may not trust when they say it has little or no wobble online, but at a show they can see for themselves how little wobble it has
I don’t think that they live in a constant state of “dizziness”. If that were the case they would do all sorts of weird stuff all the time. Only time I have noticed any of them acting odd with the wobble would be if you had them picked up off the ground and not supporting them properly. But unless any of us can get inside their body we will never truly know.
I don’t produce a lot of spider and only have it in limited projects currently. But that being said since I have been fortunate to be able to produce great examples of the gene is definitely the main reason I do still work with it. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Great video!
Thank you Mursey!
The spider gene in Ball Pythons can cause a neurological condition known as "wobble" in some individuals, which can affect their quality of life. Some breeders choose not to breed spiders due to ethical concerns about potentially passing on this condition to offspring.
The wobble issue if you watched the video has been shown it is NOT neurological. The wobble which I also talk about in the video is due to a deformity of the inner ear. There have been head scans done of non spiders and spiders and the deformity appeared in the spiders. However the severity of the wobble varies. Spiders thrive just as well as any other ball python morph I can assure you of that. The majority of spiders also don’t show any severe wobble issue I should add. One cause of the wobble issue to show up is stress due to people not providing them with the proper husbandry. There are many other genes that have much worse issues such as deadly kinking and major deformities but people still work with those and go for the combos with issues. Bottom line is spiders thrive and lead a life just as good as any other ball python. Thank you for watching and for your comment.
@@WarfelsMorphs Yeah 100% and I also think they should be illegal to breed and sell. I just don’t understand the logic gymnastics people do to justify it. Regardless if some or ‘most’ of the spiders turn out okay or just have a “mild” wobble, there will inevitably be ones with terrible wobbles and poor quality of life. Why would anyone intentionally breed an animal knowing that some of them will have a debilitating neurological issue? I don’t think anyone can change my mind on this. Plus there are so many other really awesome morphs that don’t cause issues! Makes 0 sense to me and they are only bred out of greed. Shame on anyone who breeds morphs with known health issues
@@WarfelsMorphs Is it really worth the risk though? It seems unethical to breed a morph that is more likely to struggle than other morphs. Just because it can occur in other morphs doesn't make it better. No animal deserves to struggle in life just because someone likes an aesthetic. Pugs for example.
@@wwlchen1178 and do you get off yelling at children online? Chill out, it's just an opinion
@@wwlchen1178 It should not be sold or bred. People who do so are immoral in my eyes. Yeah, yeah the wobble isn't that bad! But it is neural issue and those are degenerative. The spider gene needs to go away. Keep what's currently around but breed no more of it.
I've heard the arguments of, oh it's not that bad! The snake is fine! For now sure. What about in 5 years? What if it gets really stressed and just starts a downward spiral? You're damning the animal to a cruel death for vanity.
From a breeder perspective... That neurological issue is tied directly to the gene. They all have that wobble, it can't be bred out. There's only one known originating point for all spiders. Nobody has, to the best of my knowledge, ever produced a viable super despite it being a co-dom gene. Rescue these animals, but don't buy them from breeders. Stop encouraging this.
I wonder how you would enjoy your life with a chronic inner ear problem affecting your balance and spatial awareness
Well thankfully the spiders that I’ve produced act no different than your normal ball python. I’ve found that there’s more spiders that have very little to no wobble than what there are showing a sever wobble.
I love spiders to I'm putting my female spider,od,calico, yb, to a male GHI HET OG
That’ll make some stunning hatchlings! Good luck with that pairing!
I have a spider yellow belly we got it for free at an expo no signs of wobble so far
Great video, I totally agree that Spider gets a lot of unnecessary hate. It is time to fix that.
I couldn’t agree more Don! Thanks for watching and greatly appreciate the support!
Haha I think you are talking about the “Snake Discoveries” video. You could tell they didn’t know very much about ball pythons when they were talking in that video.
No snake discovery knows their stuff and are very highly respected in the community and industry. I believe their name was goherpin or something like that. I also heard that they are no more as well.