Lol me with all these stupid manosphere arguments. “Who eats first the dad or the kids?” “Who pays for dinner?” “Child support who deserves it?” All that stupid ass shit. Clown these niggas everytime! 😂
"Girl's are just the same as I am. Just as nervous and awkward." This is so key. I keep trying to tell both genders that a "no text" is them unable to think of something cool and forgetting not a Machiavellian plot.
this is only half true. as a man, you KNOW there are girls you don't find attractive, for whatever reason.(age, weight. skin, smell, etc) & they dont make u nervous at all. well, replace "man" with "woman" in the sentence above, but times 10.
@@MrShaiya96 The other half is going out there and forcing themselves to socialize. Face-to-face communication is mostly nonverbal cues and no one gets good at that without experience. In order to get to no woman will make you nervous you have to go out and embarrass yourself a couple times, and women have to do so on their end too.
2 most terrifying influences on human behavior are the fear of isolation and the comfort of familiarity. It's easy to be consumed with chronic negativity if it's what you know and people are cheering you on.
Manosphere is one of the worst things to happen to TH-cam. I was born 1990 and I’m thankful to have had a father to raise me right. The main issue with the manosphere is that we have TOO MANY men portraying something that isn’t fully genuine. And the youth soaks up everything until the truth gets exposed…….by someone else in the manosphere. Too many men cult following another man that isn’t fully honest with themselves If young men want to better understand the world, business and women….unplug and go outside! My pops always told me that you gotta go out and engage with the world in order to truly learn. Watching TH-cam all day only puts you in an “observer” perspective. Which only puts you in a projecting/deflecting position
"Girls were just as nervous, awkward, and inexperienced as I was" this... like they think of women as robots, really. Or animals. They don't see or don't want to see the similarities and the negative side of getting too much unwanted attention, all they see is their own bitterness at their relative lack of attention. Yeah but is getting hit on by an old man in a bar really so flattering? Would they feel complimented?
I would rather get hit on by those I find unpleasant than to live a life completely invisible. An example I always use is that women goes to an ice cream store but all the favors are either bland, unpleasant, or okay but at least you have options while for guys most of us can’t get inside the store.
I don't think it's that they see women as robots necessarily (maybe some of the pua types do), so much as they think of women as spoiled children. The thinking is women get as much as they want whenever they want without having to put forth much effort, meanwhile guys have to be elite (ie Chads) or perform a whole song and dance to get just a crumb of pussy. That perceived chasm between men's and women's lived experiences either makes them feel like they have to do the most/overperform OR makes them start to resent women for having everything they lack.
@@WhoBlah21 to continue on your metaphor: the experience of a lot of women is more like having ice cream thrown at their faces, or being physically dragged into the store when they don’t want to be. Men often see it as women having more choice but don’t see the coercion and threat of violence behind the attention that women constantly get.
anime conventions were kinda good for staying out of mannosphere. like you said, doesn't solve everything. Just the NUMBER of black girls there, existing, loving the thing i do and love talking about it like I do. There were girls of all races there as the conferences got less racist and more inclusive.
Nah literally went to my first con ever in Memphis last month and DUDE! I knew Black girls liked anime, but the amount of wigs! The cosplays🥴! Ain’t no way someone walks away from that thinking “girls don’t like me cause I like nerdy things”
Anime communities can be bad in some corners But when they hit. They hit different One of the most wholesome groups y'all can find As many problematic tropes progressives are pointing out that they have They have as many or more wholesome lessons and values they preach Fundamentally acceptance, and that shit absolutely the stuff progressives need And it packaged in a kyun kyun or explosions and blood in your face shit? You connect with your young generation Honestly I find a big reason gen z are generally more progressive Not only bcos anime is more mainstream than ever before But bcos all the other western cartoons they get on have clear influences from, or references to, anime like Steven universe, Gumball, owl house, she-ra, star Vs forces of evil etc. etc. and the newer amphibia, Craig of the creek
Wish your comment could reach higher bcos more progressives need to see this I see such a wave of pushback bcos some ppl spotted some problematic tropes in anime But you don't need to cancel anime or weeb fandom or culture as a whole bcos of that I feel it hurts the progressive movement and not the protection they think they are achieving
@@wynoglia I mean it's neat that times are changeing but let's not sit back and pretend that conservative dudes don't have some weird obsession with anime. The amount of people with anime avatars pushing white supremacy and just the interwoven culture of the chans and neo Nazi fascist ideology was enough to make me cringe whenever I see the anime aesthetic. Much like the angry nerds who remember a time when they were pushed into lockers for liking comic books so too do older black people remember when white weebs were openly racists AF at conventions.
My dad has been surprisingly getting more into these spaces. The other week he told me I needed to be a "Alpha male" to get women and I needed to change the way that I behave to be more masculine to attract them. He also likes Kevin Samuels and doesn't like single mothers which is surprising considered he has 2 black daughters and my sister is a single mother. Also that he married a single mother, listening to him just made me sad. I have a sneaking suspicion that manosphere shit convinced him it was ok to cheat. I wouldn't consider myself super masc but im ok with who I am and it's weird for him to tell me that I need to change as if I won't be able to find a single person that likes me for who I am.
I would say the manosphere definitely got to him hard. However, I do believe that beyond the manosphere talking points there is solid evidence that men who don’t replicate the typical patriarchal image of what’s manly will most definitely have a harder time attracting women compared to men who fall into that box. Especially if you are dating with the black community where it’s promoted to reflect that image.
@@imanigordon6803 It depends on what you’re looking for in a woman. Data supports the reality that women are only interested in those types of men short-term, but not for anything long-lasting or family related. Women tend to associate nurturing behavior with ideal paternal traits for their children. Trying to be an “alpha” is kinda like women trying to emulate video vixens to attract men. Most men don’t find that aesthetic or behavior useful for a family or relationship.
@@LoneWulf278 it's such a classic American problem why don't more people see it!?!??! These disaffected young people are sucked into the superficiality of (cis/het/performative/pretty/rich) relationships, and instead of understanding and critiquing like capitalism or gender, the manosphere (and the divestment girls) are just doubling down on this wack ass culture where love is only about looks and money and life is only about all three. I just wanna knock some sense into these kids and say get the fuck outta the mainstream....! Get into subculture get into building community activism church ANYTHING but this celebrity/wealth fantasy land! It's like I watch lonely people try to hook up w/ people at the bar and then complain that the only people they meet just wanna f*ck....Make it make sense!! Critique EVERYTHING and expand your social circles folks 😩
I really feel like a lot of dudes let media, social and traditional, convince them that they're not worthy and talk themselves out of some play. Like I can't tell you how many "yo why you never tried to talk to me"s I got years after the fact that as a grown man were so blatantly obvious at the time. Like no 🧢 had a girl straight up give me lap dance I'm class and I'm up here crying about how nobody likes me 😭😭😭
I had every factor going against me from a young age. Poverty, bad parents ect, but I was always a pretty guy so I had some level of confidence. Pretty privilege is a real thing in that it did get my foot in the door, but I still had to learn to be an interesting person. That matters way more.
@@blasphimus exactly, OP said it best when he said being good looking gets your foot in the door but the personal development that makes you interesting means more in the long term.
Being an interesting person is definitely the main thing. I'm a 5'8" dude and 33 and never had an issue with height. Women have with theirs for getting sale sizes, but I can't recall ever being bullied by a woman about it. I just leafed it into the rude person pile and stopped talking with them. Being interesting, having hobbies, those are the key things.
@@unstoppableExodia that's something that the manosphere never really grapples with. There are so many men who by the manospheres reckoning should be living a perfect life. They're rich and good looking and hard working yet they have 15 failed marriages, a coke addiction and 5 pending lawsuits. I mean you'd think they'd look at these millionaires failing and go "wait but if they can fail and they got everything the manosphere says I need then wtf is up with that." Lol
It can be easy because I think the manosphere mentality tries to give simpler answers, even though they are BS, to the struggles of life, and we don't all have the time to spend digging deep into everything we are dealing with especially nowadays. Good to hear folks find people like FD who speak genuine truth to power
I'm so glad you were able to get out of that. I think it can be easy to get caught up in, especially because it's often disguised as advice and self help. Good on you for personally growing.
Very soon you'll be getting the "move on already" from people who've been asking your thoughts on the manosphere because they aren't getting the opinions they like 😂.
Well, how much MORE does he have to say about a community he spent 3+ hours bashing? We get it: he thinks men online are bad unless they're exactly like him, so they're all trash...
@@Xara_K1 sweetie, since when does the entire manosphere bash all women? I'll wait... Also, it's not the 3-hour total videoS (plural, heau) that's my beef so much as the CONTINUED manosphere bashing while only devoting a good 15 minutes to divestors and "femininity" gurus, and his moronic statement that the manosphere promotes false narratives when so many men experience/d them.
This was a better take. Its important we reflect on our age and personal experiences as we look at what Zoomers are experiencing. I too grew up without Reddit, TH-cam and manosphere content. I had to... go out and learn game, and didn't have this stuff to poison my mind and push me deeper into my dysfunction. I think you're also glossing over the impact of Tinder and On Line Dating tho Fresh n Fit trash tho no one is defending those grifters
The impact Tinder and similar apps have had on online dating is to turn women off from online dating. We've retreated back to our niche communities, so just like in the 90's you have to go out and meet people or be interested in things other than whining about women.
I really don’t want to hype myself up too much, but literally one of my friends had a “Black women don’t like me” phase. And I had to talk to him about how it’s not Black women’s problem that he can’t talk to them, and that he needs more personality than just the nerd shit. We were into the same shit still are now, and I wasn’t getting girls back then either. But I think that convo at 18/19 changed the course of his life. Because he could’ve truly been lost. I think people need just 1 friend who can tell them, “not getting women, and specifically Black women, is your fault. You have to work on you”
I really feel like the part that helped me considering I was the same age (18) was that I wasn’t on social media that much at that time, it was 2014 so I was mostly just watching gaming content and anime. So i thank God I was able to avoid the manosphere BS
I'm sorry but that ain't the advice that I would give anybody when it comes to dating. Telling someone that it's their fault that they're single is problematic in several ways and is actually something that lines up with the talking points from the manosphere. There's a difference between telling someone to better themselves and telling someone to change who they are.
@@bmslhs I didn’t tell him to change who he was. I even included that he’s still openly into the same stuff he was into back then. I didn’t want to include everything I said because it would take forever because it was a 2 hour convo 8 years ago. But the goal was really to not only better himself, but also to let him know, the women not liking him wasn’t because of what he was into, but because he didn’t know to talk to women, he didn’t have any confidence in himself, and he blamed what he was into. I even told him, if a Black woman doesn’t like him just because he likes anime and comics, that’s stupid and her fault. But most women don’t care about that stuff. Just learn to talk about more than just the nerd stuff he was into, because there’s more to life than just that stuff and he can’t blame women for that
@@bmslhs so it wasn’t all criticism, there was encouragement and there was a lot of understanding too. Again, it wasn’t to have him change his life, but like more to change his mindset, especially when it came to Black women, that they don’t like guys who are into nerds. So while I said it was his fault, I didn’t say it was completely on him, but to not blame Black women as a whole for his issues. Again, it was a long back and forth convo between 18 year olds, that wasn’t perfect, but helped turn him away from a Kevin samuels, fresh and fit path
I disagree, as a matter of fact this the type of advice that be pushing people into Inceldom and Blackpill, why should your friend have to go through the trials and tribulations of stepping out of their comfort zone without any realistic positive reassurance… just to attract women? How is it possibly their fault that they’re so nerdy or square for black women?
If there’s one thing I want to give my kids on this subject: the sex you’re attracted to are people, just talk to them like really talk. Get to that long conversation where you start sharing your childhood and that, and it’ll all be alright. If they aren’t interested they aren’t for you, just self assess and keep growing and changing. It doesn’t matter what society dictates is attractive because people are all different, and you’re somebody’s definition of hot. Some people don’t find anyone sexually attractive, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Secondary attraction exists. Get to know people. If you get rejected, oh well she likes cherry pie, and you’re pumpkin. Somebody likes pumpkin. Maybe you need a little cinnamon. Whatever. Some people just don’t like pie. Being alone isn’t bad. There’s a billion other experiences to have, go find them and have them. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with you as a human being. For people in general, I’m on the asexual spectrum, and I can tell you, that chad over there is just as not-attractive(better word is meh 😒) as you. Show people like me something interesting and maybe they’ll be into you as a person. Asexual doesn’t mean “no sex”. A lot of asexuals like sex(some don’t). It just means you and chad have the same sex appeal to them at first glance. And nope we’re not all Beckies thank you. Can’t tell you how many of us are told we’re a “waste” because we’re asexual.
And... Even before you go trying to date, be good with yourself, first. You need to be able to be okay with yourself, before trying to add the complexity of relationships. Don't use relationships as a way to have someone else take care of you, physically or emotionally. Give and take is good, but not all give give give or take take take. And don't stop trying to better yourself, just because you're now in a relationship. You owe it to yourself to keep trying to grow.
@@christopherbrown5409 chill. It's this persons life not yours 🙄 Literally just spoke on facts and added their own experience here you are calling it nonsense.
True! I’m your age and when I think about the stuff I got into when I was a kid, and my vulnerability at the time I’m like “shit, I might have ended up as a fascist incel or something.” The feedback and pushback I got from my actual social circle, and the fact that there was just less to go deep into, saved me. (I see that you’re talking about the black manosphere. I’m an old white dude, but the similarity in experience based on age is still there).
Sometimes I really think my Aol dial up and barely functional e machines computer saved me from falling into some real f$cked up traps as a child lol I wouldn't have become an incel but you can bet I would have made a terrible myspace page and gotten into some real toxic fandom shit if my internet hadn't been so slow i could only download midis instead of mp3s lol
What's up, frat? Loving how you are providing a dope alternative to the madness out there. I am one generation ahead of you, but my story was very much like yours in terms of having the things that made me susceptible to the manosphere be tempered by lived experience. We men can be easily swindled in our youth when anybody promises us 1) certainty and 2) ways to get laid. Doubly so if they're charismatic. As with PUA, most people in these communities leave after they got what they came for (increased sexual partners, somebody who is wife material, etc.) The ones who stay tend to be motivated less by sex or relationships, but more by revenge and power...for all the reasons you named. Keep doing the work. GOMAB!!
Im glad that I didn't discover the manosphere in my adolesence because I probably would have turned out a completely different person than what I am now. I never fit traditional male norms much, and was not the most masculine guy out there. I randomly discovered the manosphere at the age of 21, I was struggling, depressed, everyone was getting into relationships and I wasn't, I was in my junior year at university, I randomly discovered "Chad memes" and "The Red Pill" and I started consuming content, and I even said Redpill lingo in public such as "All women want Chad and Tyrone" and "I wanna score with a plate at my formal" and one time I was drunk, I got into an argument with someone, and said "Why are you all beta males". I luckily left the manosphere 2 years ago, I wasn't too deep into it, but the youtube algorithim kept recommending me videos on how to be masculine, and "Why modern women are problematic" and "Nice guys finish last" and "Go MGTOW". I bet the 4th of July perpetrator Robert Crimo was an avid manosphere follower. Groups like that are dangerous, because they are radicializing angry men to commit henious acts of violence.
I feel like more people at the intersection of privileged and marginalized identities (ie Black men, white women, cis gays and lesbians, etc.) need to be more open to what kind of bigoted radical movements we would've been susceptible to, and I think that's a really good thing you touched on in this video and others. I'm not Black or male but it is very helpful to hear someone talk honestly and openly about how the manosphere could've sucked you in had you just been at the wrong place at the wrong time. In my personal experience, though this is not necessarily related to anything else you say in the video: as a cis queer woman, I think a LOT about how I possibly could've been persuaded by TERF rhetoric if I had just been young and naive enough on the wrong parts of the internet, because I definitely at least sympathized with some of their most basic "gender critiques," before I had ever heard that term "gender critical." Now, trans allyship is a very important part of my life, and I think I am who I am as a queer person very much thanks to my friendship with other members of the LGBTQ+ community, in no small part including trans men, trans women, and nonbinary people. BUT there was definitely a time when I had many misconceptions about what being trans was, simply because I hadn't met or heard or listened to anyone trans. They were invisible in my life. How was I *supposed* to understand them? Not unlike the way in which many men without much relationship experience have huge misconceptions about women, and in those situations it's hard to let most of the blame fall on the individuals when they start to develop some... Bad Takes. I wouldn't say I was ever openly hostile to trans people, which is important-I just sorta didn't "get" them at all. And the fact that I also fundamentally never *wanted* to hate or scapegoat trans people or trans women in particular. I never thought of them as a blight on my feminism. I was more passively cisnormative than actively transphobic, and I suppose that may have been where the difference was. But if I had the wrong sorts of reckonings with my blind spots as a cis person, if I had been incentivized to double down on my casual transphobia instead of being open to learning, which is soooo easy to do... why would I be above being radicalized? I'm sure in some possible timeline I could've felt hurt enough to twist it into an us-against-them mentality, to make trans women's existence seem like an attack on my own queer identity. Like cis women and trans women can't coexist and cooperate, but must contradict each other. I just want to reiterate, I completely disavow TERFs (they are a hate movement) and think all trans people are valid. This is something I sort of imagine as more of a guilty nightmare, or my own personal episode of the Twilight Zone. I hate thinking about how that could've been me. I just wanted to dump this rant here, because your video got me thinking on stuff I always try to navigate in spaces where I am an "ally"-and really, all of us who are allies, to any group, should never think of ourselves as *so much better* than people who share in our same privilege. Because we all have the capability to be oblivious, manipulative, and harmful like the people who work to perpetuate (insert systemic disadvantage). These systems are in place to benefit us first and foremost. Instead we should examine what we see directly in our own lives and search for ways of changing our communities for the better, which is no small task. It can be so much easier to act like we're the real victims so we can avoid confronting any problems entirely. Well, that was a long rant. Got a little preachy there for a second. Don't know how to end it now. I'm gonna go to my Duolingo.
I'm somewhat like you but younger. I had a girl I liked bully and break my heart when I was 12, and I can tell you I was prime recruitment material for the manosphere when I was a teenager til about the age of probably 18. But luckily for me, no such community existed and I dodged that bullet as a result. Idk how different it'd go if I was growing up now instead. But despite becoming knowledgeable enough about women's issues as an adult to never trust the manosphere community, I still dealt with the painful reality of feeling unloveable and permanently cursed to be single, even though I knew it wasn't true consciously. I still literally didn't even have my first relationship til 2 months ago, at the age of 27 (i've turned 28 since), and it only lasted a week (tbh i'm still processing that break up). So yeah, I definitely get these men and how they're feeling, but also at the same time, what they believe is fucking terrible and hard not to take the piss out of. Also even though I've never been in any of these incel / manosphere spaces, what you said about being disconnected from reality and being terminally online really reminded me of how true that is for me with being a communist. It's something I've already been forced to recognise in the recent past as I've started to become more social.
Politics aside, if you're not sociable enough to prevent getting bullied by girls then you REALLY don't want socialism. Socialism benefits the popular more than anyone else because people no longer have the option of using money to offset their anti-social appearance or behavior. Incel is a common insult in socialist/communist communities nowadays.
I first got into the manosphere 7 years ago looking for motivation to not commit suicide. And I found it. Thankfully that was back before blackpill was popular.
Glad you pointed that out. F&F barely gets half of 1% of their subscribers to view their content on average🤣. I follow smaller channels who gets way more views and engagement plus are growing like a sprouting seed🪴at the same time😩🤦🏾♀️. They’re like a big ole air inflated potato chip bag containing half of a potato chip crumb inside smh 🤦🏾♀️.
i really love you man. there is something so profoundly empathic about you. i hate to say that it is because you are older than a lot of your viewers but for me you give YOUR life experience combined with empathy and understanding that making it a really transformative experience. i got out of manosphere ideology when i was a freshman in highschool, but im 21 now and i really think you are going to do and have done a lot more for online discourse and understanding and like holy shit man i love you so much
I was thinking about this after watching your videos too, I graduated high school in 2005 and the manosphere shit just wasn't an option for socially awkward boys back then. You couldn't run and hide online, the only option was to get out and keep trying. Sobering to think that I would have been a prime target to get sucked into this space as a kid, and maybe the only thing that prevented it happening was being born in 1986 instead of 1996.
The experiences hasnt changed. The goals havent changed. The feelings havent changed. The outcomes havent changed. But you avoided being in that sphere since the information and supportive community wasn't present or pervasive. As a concept, that would like a bad thing for any other aspect in life, but this case is touted as a good thing since... you dont like or agree with it, or its execution does line up with your beliefs...? For whatever reason, its existence wont go away due to the reasons at the start of this comment combined with the social desire and technology to find answers. Its problems are the intrinsic issues versus the operational ones - like unreasonable standards from women (intrinsic) versus going out and trying to get women/laid (operational). Which is also a key point of the sphere, fixing operational prerequisites (money, health, mindset) by overcoming intrinsic blockers. All in all, the sphere is a good thing to exist, isnt impervious to critique, and could be better.
Rejection and isolation really do hurt. That's how these people get an audience. And it's sad because all they do is blame women and dehumanize women, which is both wrong and dangerous to society. Too bad there's not enough people trying to help these people from a place of caring and understanding. Like it's fucked up that we'll say "just go to therapy" when it costs so much and if someone is not neurotypical they might struggle to see eye-to-eye or engage with a neurotypical therapist (I'm autistic and found that I communicate better with a therapist who is themselves autistic too.).
My experience is similar to yours. I remember when online activity and video games was a choice. One of many options. Even then, there were guys who were chronically online and on pc games. I was a virgin until I was 20. I had opportunities earlier but was either too afraid and sabatoged myself or missed the ques entirely. I had friends that were great with women. I had older friends that were great with women. They built my confidence and explained women to me literally and I got to observe them do well. It's unfortunate that many young men don't have this chance anymore. It's uncommon to spend time outside. Even more uncommon to end up in places where women are. Women still shop offline, go out for drinks, go to eat, go to the park and do other events. They're everywhere. The manosphere is a reinforcement zone. Where they have men work on all of these self improvement endeavors. But they tell them not to approach women until they're a finished product. By that point, even if you do it you're anti social and woefully unprepared for building IRL relationships. It's a sad thing. Because from my vantage point, women haven't changed in how they move through daily life that much. But men definitely have. There's some societal differences, but the same opportunities exist. You do not have to be wealthy, chiseled and a "alpha" to get women. You have never had to be. You just have to understand yourself and present it properly. You also have to be able to handle rejection. That's really it. I'm simplifying things but it's really simply simple. What makes it impossible is they have a society and capitalist system that has encouraged them to stay on screens indefinitely. It is a problem. My generation didn't have that problem. We were encouraged to spend our time and resources in brick and mortar structures.
I've been loving your manosphere videos. I hope younger men and teenagers who have fallen into that world come across your channel and reconsider things from a fresh perspective. This is very important work you're doing, especially since you're coming from a place of understanding. Thank you for all of this
I'm in my thirties and I'm recovering from a breakup after a 6 year relationship. I'm back in my hometown and it's a small town where everyone I knew is gone, there's nothing going on socially and it's full of kids and old people. Everyone pretty much leaves for college and stays gone. I guess I'm an incell now? Is it's time to join a cult? Joking aside, it's pretty much impossible to meet new people in a place without social events and clubs or anything centered on hobbies or activities. I can see how some people might go off the deep end and get caught in one of these hate peddlers' rhetoric, where they channel all their frustration and negativity, especially if they're not doing well psychologically. I think larger cities are a lot better in these situations.
@@signifiedbsides1129 I'm reading a lot of entitlement from men in these responses and even in your video and it's confusing me. I grew up an obese, loudmouthed, less than attractive nerdy girl and had it made abundantly clear no guy owed me attention so I learned to never take t personally when I was overlooked because I really wasn't willing to engage in the level of labour I was shown it would take to maybe attract the kind of guy I wanted. So I'm wondering why guys have this sense of entitlement to women's interest? Because it seems that when we are rejected it's made clear we're the problem, but I'm now understanding that when guys are rejected, somehow they're allowed to also presume that we are the problem and that's wild to me 😯
Thanks for pointing out that subscriber to view count ratio. Looking at your views made me think a bit. it could be that your quality content gets shared with people that aren't subscribers since it's worth sharing. Keep it up!
Once a person in it actually has a conversation with someone in their daily life that isn't in that bubble they see how ignorant they sound about life and women they usually make steps to change and eventually lead a happy life.
That’s true. The good thing about real-life socializing is that you get the opportunity to test ideas on people who will give you immediate feedback. If you can’t bounce things off someone else’s mind, how can you know if you’re crazy? You’ll have no self-awareness because you’ll only attract like-minded people in a little bubble on the internet. It’s unfortunate.
What you say sounds good, however it isn't true. I asked a close friend why get married, what's the significance? " we do it because it the right thing to do." He's said. Me: "so it's like tribalism? You do what the tribe does?" Him: " No it helps with your will when you have kids." Both of us did alot of reading and back and forth that night. We still disagreed, but we learned from each other. He said "marriage has no real significance, we give it significance so we can maintain certain things in society, keep structure at home, allow the government to recognize who's connected to who, but we can do most of these things out of wedlock besides the privileges afforded by the government." That basically paraphrasing cause It's been awhile. I really got him thinking about how alot of things we do as guys we just do because we feel it's right. All of money and time we spend on women to uphold their desires and validation etc. It's all apart of the same puzzle and nothings wrong with that. He showed me the value of a union from a perspective of validation. But my friend is understanding, and I think alot of people misunderstand and assume all of the guys the in sphere live in the basement seething with hatred. When you look at things objectively it's easy to understand.
@@babyboijeremy the conversation you used as an example was totally different then some of the things manosphere people push. From the sounds of it you didn't ball in on your friend and start out with "why are women so obsessed with marriage? I'll tell you why because they're harpies who crave stability and have only their looks as value so they have to trap men with children to give them meaning in life!" You might have gotten a pretty different response from your friend if you had gone in full manosphere assumptions machine gun lol like it sounds like you just had a conversation about the societal value of marriage which is a pretty normal conversation to have and didn't go full "high value mate, alpha male, sigma grind" weirdness that anyone outside the manosphere would be turned off by. You hid your power level for a normie basically
@@strayiggytv I gave you a FIRST hand account in my experience, and your saying" No,no your wrong this is how your conversation should have went." What your saying is a blatant misunderstanding of the tone of the majority of channels I've seen. You open with a question as if I have some animosity towards a women who want marriage. You like alot of others suffer from Kevin Samuel's effect. You only see viral clips and draw conclusions putting all of those people into a box.
Right! I’m so glad you said this! A lot of these dudes have been on TH-cam for 10+ years. Getting money finally in their old age, finally being able to have experience with women by using said money. And then the young ones comes along with all their awkwardness, insecurities, and struggle. And then they make their situation worse. I always told my boyfriend, I don’t understand where they are these men are TRYING to lead other men. But they are leading them down the wrong road.
Thank you for sharing because I was more Gullible in my youth too. That’s what happens when one doesn’t know how to protect their good heart, mind and spirit
New subscriber! Thanks for being such a positive example of black male maturity. BM and BW don't have to agree on everything but its nice to see the kinds of people we can still have respect and love for after all is said and done. Keep representing! You are needed more than you know!
Lol idk why I just remembered being at a festival back in the 90s with my tween friends and feeling cute, and a black dad had his like 12 year old son with him, and they were both holding wads of cash, and the dad was like “spread the money out, fan it out and show em!”
A lot of ways that keep people from being able to get out of the manosphere is that there is no way to really date in the real world anymore. I was in college in the 2010's. You can get dating by getting into extra curriculars even if it's super hard. But once you're out of college, those groups go away. A lot of girls are also terminally online too. It's not just the boys online like this. A lot of girls are not in extracurriculars and they aren't in bars. My brothers would use tinder and hook up with a different girl every weekend (because they were attractive). All the girls I've dated don't really go outside. Which works if you're an introvert. I'm on my 30's now and dating is still really hard. I'm attractive, not an idiot, with good money and interesting hobbies. I can't pick up women at bars and finding real world extracurriculars is terrible. Single women mostly just stay at home and online.
I need to investigate modern dating more to understand. I do think it's possible to create social networking spaces via interests. Like momocon was a week ago and it's a huge space to socialize
I'd say those groups are still there, just less centralized. Almost every woman I've been involved with post-college I met while engaging in my interests and hobbies, at least the ones that required me to leave the house anyway. So places like the gym, gaming meetups, cons, local concerts/shows, all that shit. I was never actively on the prowl but I would eventually bump into someone cute and/or interesting over a long enough period. I know fuck and all about the bar scene cause I go to bars to drink expensive bullshit, not be social. Even if that werent the case I'd rather try my luck at a con where I can be knowledgeable and engaging about weeb shit vs trying to cold call at a bar where everyone's already on guard anyway. Probably have better luck trying to score at a pottery class.
@@Fooacta %100 this. I am a woman and I can tell you if you have a hobby that's where all the ladies are. Now it does kind of open up the door to dudes who get into a hobby just to hit on everyone and nobody likes that but actually finding a hobby you like can be a good way to meet women.
@@signifiedbsides1129 You can't make blanket statements on the manosphere and compare things "back in your day" when you are totally ignorant about the struggles of modern men. With such a majority of initial interactions being online today, it's extremely biased against men who do not have the aesthetics going for them as much as other guys. And modern expectations are completely warped because of social media. Comparison is the thief of joy. The manosphere has many toxic elements but there is a reality that it's 10x harder for an average guy in looks/income/social status to secure a relationship than it was in any previous generation.
I’m around the same age as this guy and relate heavily to what he be sayin. I’ve had times where I was susceptible to that whole manosphere (and it’s precursors). I’ve even read a pirated copy of an ebook by one of the big pick up artists when in my early twenties. It was made up of techniques that ranged from ‘get confident, stupid’ to a light form of hypnosis that sounded plausible on paper but when I considered actually trying to use it in the real world seemed like something that would seem strange and hard to explain if it didn’t work and was questioned about what I tried to do. Some bits were useful and seemed to be based on something that isn’t bs but there was a lot of toxic ideology in it to justify the use of underhanded methods to get a girl in bed. The thing I could never resolve even at my most vulnerable and susceptible is if I’m prepared to use an approach that deems nothing off the table if it gets results, then what’s to say something even more reprehensible like slippin a Mickey is off the table. I mean if it’s supposedly ok to use a form of hypnotic suggestion to bypass her will then it’s not that big a leap to achieve the same result using even more underhanded means. I had enough common sense to question enough of it to avoid getting sucked into that ideology. I had assumed nobody took that stuff seriously as recently as around 2010. Until a friend at the time who I’d previously heard go on about alpha and beta males with complete seriousness so much that an older friend of his had to say to him straight up to just forget about all that stuff because it’s all fugazi. But he held onto it and when he discovered a girlfriend of his was cheating on him he spiraled into injecting hard drugs because he was tortured by the feelings that it happened because he wasn’t enough of a man to keep them satisfied. I had no idea it was happening at the time. Only found out years later when he got counseling and finally realized it happened because she was a bitch. If she wasn’t happy being with him and wanted to be with someone else she could have and should have been up front and spared him the added pain of doing it behind his back. At one point he was forwarding emails of pick up artist stuff ten years ago that was drenched in all of that toxic ideology that women are evil creatures to be hunted, subdued and broken into submission and subservience I had to tell him to stop sending me that shit. But I can see how that shit gave rise to red pill ideology and incels. Because when you buy into that stuff and believe every word of it only to find that the techniques learned in the pick up artist courses and books you believe in and paid for don’t have you waking up next to supermodels or even anyone on the regular then it’s easy to start thinking it’s you, that you’re lacking something. And that’s when people can start thinking that they’re not a chad, a beta who’ll never be the alpha they dream of becoming, that they’re doomed to a life of involuntary celibacy and that life doesn’t matter because they were dealt a losing hand in the game of genetics.
The crazy part is I don't disagree with a lot of what he says but I can't get with folks who have negative stuff to say about the manosphere but provide a solution let alone a place to build a man's confidence. I understand that providing a space isn't what your channel is about but if you start having more videos talking about the manosphere in a negative context then I'm left to believe that you don't care about men's spaces.
With all the horrible manosphere content out here it's been amazing to see the response from the left. The content that folks like fiq and others have been making is going to help so many folks who may have otherwise gotten trapped by all the hate. Thank you for doing the work and producing a healthy alternative for people looking for advice and guidance.
Admittedly. . . back in our day there was at least a smidgen of reason to believe that capitalism and the market forces might be able to answer all our concerns. With another two decades of stagnant wages and sliding more to the right though? Yeah, it's far more appealing to look for easy answers rather than dunk your headspace into realizing what has to be done for most of us, let alone our children, to have any kind of meaningful future.
These are great points. And yeah, the internet has been both a blessing and a curse. I just still really struggle to understand why so many guys would want to be associated at all with a group of men generally considered to be incels and buffoons. Even internet popularity wise, the reason so many Fresh and Fit clips have gone viral is because they get dragged online on the regular--by every gender. If they had such a negative reaction to the girls they knew in real life rejecting or embarrassing them, why isn't the fear of that level of public humiliation more of a motivator for them to avoid the manosphere? If their goal is women, but the majority of people bigging up the manosphere are men, seems counterintuitive. Or is it just that the manosphere provides a comforting answer as to why they're unsuccessful with women, which is that women are trash and unworthy of them?
Funny I should run across this video now. I was just catching up with an old coworker and something along this topic came up. He is 37 and was raised and still is very conservative. He was saying how he is so glad none of this stuff was around when he was in his early 20s. Long story short he was awkward, not great looking, not good with women, and roommates with some airhead that for whatever reason seemed to have no problem getting the "babes". He was very angry with the world, jealous of the dude he lived with, and had some pretty disturbing thoughts. Fortunately for him he was in a time when you still had to leave the house to work and socialize. He got better with work, women, and people in general. He is now just a regular older married millennial with kids who is pretty satisfied with his life. Where would he be if he wasted those precious early adult years sucked into negative social media instead of developing important social skills?
4:00 completely agree, I could’ve became an incel I could’ve sunk to a low level. But I FORCED MYSELF to not do that, I FORCED MYSELF to conpartmentalize to stay sane and go out and do things to boost confidence in myself by getting GOOD at WHAT I DO.
Your point on subscribers vs viewers is the same mindset I have when people bring up a high percentage of KS subscribers were women. It’s not necessarily what it sounds like. Like people don’t take into account that his old content was probably attractive to a lot of women, whether they’re subscribed but not viewing, or if they’re even active on YT anymore but they’re still technically subscribed. There’s a lot of gray area on that subject.
I feel a lot of what you are saying. I listened to KS and you. I foiund that he called out some hypocrisy, which was refreshing to know that I wasn't alone in experiencing/seeing it. I can say after that I was still looking for more understading, and that is how I found your channel(s). BTW I'm 37, single, no kids, with a career in medical sales to provide insight.
ah dude, im loving this channel more and more all the time. i was bummed that you(and the other channels i like, like this) were pushed into doing live chats like this cause i like the story form. but youre such a awesome person and youre thoughts are so important and healing for me. as a girl, im realizing just how delusional, ignorant, and hateful almost all the men around me are. thank you for making me feel somewhat more safe as a working women, who rents a room in a house with 3 other men
Great commentary. Now I know from your testimony, I wasn't the only person that went through what you went through at 18-early 20s with not having woman experience. I wanted it really bad with the hormones raging. I was not bad looking guy. I was built like a linebacker and a fullback. I was an individual who didn't "drink the Kool aid" social bullshit in the early 90's of high school and college. I had that 1997 Stone Cold Steve Austin/Bill Goldberg/ECW Taz mentality. I was still easy to get along and down to earth. But even then being a mature young man with good principals were major challenges in college and life as well. Taken the almost same identical path you took.
One thing I've noticed from spending time online is that a lot of people in certain communities, such as Reddit tend to be very insular in their thinking and very middle class.
IDK how I came across Fresh and Fit, but I would watch them everyday for about a month and Im married and never had issues with women...but what they also did was make me okay with some of my sexist views, took years to admit I had male toxicity, then they made me feel okay about it, but I realized they were saying things that dont work long term....not saying everything they say is wrong but majority of what they say in the whole space is very narrow minded.... But I always thought all manosphere were lame guys, but info made me feel okay with some of my negative toxic thoughts, but Im back addressing my issue working though
Also, fiq didn't have dating apps like we do today which are disastrous for real life dating. From commodification, objectification, and ego deflation/inflation for both three user and their potential partners.
Damn bro, that kind of hit me hard. I'm not mad about it, but I have absolutely no healthy experiences with girls. Most of the times I've been with a girl it was a hook up and left me feeling kind of empty. Its left a bad taste in my mouth ever since. If i was an angry dude, i might have gone down that manosphere path as well, but thankfully i didnt. As much as I hate it, you're right, I have to put myself out there even if it makes me uncomfortably. Idk, nice to hear someone talk real shit, and not just try to act tough. Thank you.
I am 20 and i kinda found the manosphere by accident right. Found sandman, that guy with cars(forgot name) and some other small names. It was xaptivating at first for a 16yr old. But i kinda wasnt able to connect their dots. They talk about women being terrible and only wanting money/attention/this/that. And i couldnt see it, my sister or my mom or my girl friends. And i think i was susceptible to that stuff but reality saved me. Now i have found folks that are kinda in the manosphere but not really. We got aba and preach and a different guy but forgot his name as well. I never got good advice from my parents and i never was the bar hitting guy(autism lets gooo, tho college changed that) so it was that missing point in my life. But once i got with my gf, even more of this toxic manosphere stuff becomes clear. Man having a source of help is good but when these clowns spout this dumb shit, i worry for my fellow men. Edit: Think before you sleep is that second great channel
He's view count is in close proximity to his sub count. He'll have greater longevity to the manosphere if he chooses. Love your vids and insight! Keep up the great work
Your comment "yes i can" on the 'you cant dimiss a community' bit reminds me of dealing with toxic parts of my own anti-lgbt family. (Especially after finding my boyfriend. I'm bi so I 'got a pass' while with a girl.) My dad kept saying "you cant just ignore them and move on" like, i did, been working great.
I had an antiSJW and libertarian phase in late highschool (2015/2018) when all I used was Facebook and TH-cam and while there was some shit on those platforms I can't imagine I'd have gotten out of it like I did had I been on Reddit, or Tik Tok. Where instead of a 20 min TH-cam video by AmoredSkeptic where I could see the bullshit after 5 minutes because they just reuse talking points and strawman arguements after 5 min. Compared to a youngster on TikTok seeing 20 second long videos that confirm their biases and insecurity. But since I was using long form essays to find ideas, anything that couldn't hold water for more than 5 minutes was quickly put under suspicion
I was also vulnerable to this. My best friend got into "pick up" and I always found it creepy, and I moved away from him because of it. But had a more charismatic person pitched it to me?
I still see so much defense of KS and his "solutions" in these comments. Someone find me a success story made from these solutions, please. Or is it enough to just have something tangible to hold onto, even if it isn't actually bringing you what nor WHO you want? I can understand just having something for comfort, a philosophy with set of behaviors and goals one can work toward. But it is going anywhere? Have you achieved or on your way to achieving that goal? I'm very curious.
You see the same defense of Jordan Peterson every time he's brought up. The thing is these people do occasionally say something that isn't terrible life advice and I can see people who just happened to hear it from one of them first rushing to their defense when somebody criticizes them but the thing to remember is all of their basic life advice has been said a million times before by people who didn't have to couch it in 50 other toxic ideas lol. Self help books have been around forever.
Not a Kevin fan and he definitely said some stupid stuff, but he got a few people married from his facebook group. As FD said in his last manosphere video the opposing stuff is not good or viral worthy. These guys are still looking for steps on how to get women beyond general platitudes. Which the opposing manosphere section hasnt been successful at.
@@strayiggytv That's true. That's why I cannot take a soft stand on ppl that go the route of KS nor their adamant followers. The "he said good stuff sometimes" applies to everyone. We ALL make good points sometimes, I won't accept that as a reason to try to defend and legitimize the rest.
@@dclarke2179 I get it and I agree. At the same time I think it better if more ppl stopped concentrating on a particular side. Because the habit is that, if THIS side isn't helping, then THAT side must be right - but it's neither. We don't have to accept 100% of anyone's philosophy just because 15% was on the level.
My nephew is in that phase and it's starting to irritate me. But he's a good kid with strong male role models of all identities so I know he'll be fine because they're all collectively guiding him out of it. It's annoying trying to gently argue with him tho
The manosphere is a crazy place. It’s not only men who get sucked into it. I got sucked into it, and I’m a woman. I think I got sucked into because I was drawn to the controlling nature of it all. (Family trauma rears its ugly head.). I’m so glad that my daughter pointed out all of the anger in each video. There are people of all ages who get sucked into it. We also have MGTOW, men going their own way. A lot of these men are older. So many people who are part of that world start to view women as something less than human. Her job is to do A, B, C, and D. “If she sees a dirty dish in my apartment,she needs to go wash it.” (I think MTR said that.). There are no discussions about mutual care or respect. There’s nothing about how to find a decent woman to date. It’s mostly just watching video clips of SPECIFIC women and reacting to it. It makes it appear that all women act in entitled ways and that they all want a wealthy husband. I’m so glad that you mentioned how disrespectful these channels are to average men. It’s gross. There’s nothing wrong with being average. Most of us are average. Am I the only one old enough to remember the pick up artist show that was on VH1? I think the vibes are similar to the manosphere channels. I wonder if all of the F&F viewers know that BOTH hosts are on Sugar Baby/Sugar Daddy sites. 🤔
I do not completely agree with the Manosphere! I belive that self improvement and going outside is the best way to meet people. One day I'll learn how to do those things.................
"self improvement and going outside" are vague and some manospherians emphasize self-improvement and a tactile experience of life. If the best you can say for yourself is "...one day I'll..." you need as much cold water in the face as you can find. Some of that cold water may come from the manosphere. A lot of these commenters are treading water just like you. You're not going to learn to swim from these mooks.
“I filter back and forth between being really empathetic and clowning these n*****.”
Gold. Solid gold.
Lol me with all these stupid manosphere arguments. “Who eats first the dad or the kids?” “Who pays for dinner?” “Child support who deserves it?” All that stupid ass shit. Clown these niggas everytime! 😂
Definitely my favorite quote.
And it encapsulates my feelings about literally everything (but *especially* everything internet-related). 😂
"Girl's are just the same as I am. Just as nervous and awkward." This is so key. I keep trying to tell both genders that a "no text" is them unable to think of something cool and forgetting not a Machiavellian plot.
this is only half true. as a man, you KNOW there are girls you don't find attractive, for whatever reason.(age, weight. skin, smell, etc) & they dont make u nervous at all. well, replace "man" with "woman" in the sentence above, but times 10.
@@MrShaiya96 The other half is going out there and forcing themselves to socialize. Face-to-face communication is mostly nonverbal cues and no one gets good at that without experience. In order to get to no woman will make you nervous you have to go out and embarrass yourself a couple times, and women have to do so on their end too.
Leave it to Fiq to do the "Back in my days" even about escaping the manosphere.
😂😂😂
Lol yeah. I remember those manosphere guys back when I was college too. I was briefly into that pickup artist stuff.
I hate how much I like it, lol.
Gives him some like "Black Santa in front of the fireplace," vibes 😂
2 most terrifying influences on human behavior are the fear of isolation and the comfort of familiarity. It's easy to be consumed with chronic negativity if it's what you know and people are cheering you on.
Gonna use this quote
Amen.
Manosphere is one of the worst things to happen to TH-cam. I was born 1990 and I’m thankful to have had a father to raise me right.
The main issue with the manosphere is that we have TOO MANY men portraying something that isn’t fully genuine. And the youth soaks up everything until the truth gets exposed…….by someone else in the manosphere. Too many men cult following another man that isn’t fully honest with themselves
If young men want to better understand the world, business and women….unplug and go outside!
My pops always told me that you gotta go out and engage with the world in order to truly learn. Watching TH-cam all day only puts you in an “observer” perspective. Which only puts you in a projecting/deflecting position
Having a father that helps you, is key.
Your dad is very wise!! I’m a woman and that advice is good for me too ☀️
Yea that’s good
"Girls were just as nervous, awkward, and inexperienced as I was" this... like they think of women as robots, really. Or animals. They don't see or don't want to see the similarities and the negative side of getting too much unwanted attention, all they see is their own bitterness at their relative lack of attention. Yeah but is getting hit on by an old man in a bar really so flattering? Would they feel complimented?
I would rather get hit on by those I find unpleasant than to live a life completely invisible. An example I always use is that women goes to an ice cream store but all the favors are either bland, unpleasant, or okay but at least you have options while for guys most of us can’t get inside the store.
@@WhoBlah21 Spoken Like a man.
I don't think it's that they see women as robots necessarily (maybe some of the pua types do), so much as they think of women as spoiled children. The thinking is women get as much as they want whenever they want without having to put forth much effort, meanwhile guys have to be elite (ie Chads) or perform a whole song and dance to get just a crumb of pussy.
That perceived chasm between men's and women's lived experiences either makes them feel like they have to do the most/overperform OR makes them start to resent women for having everything they lack.
@@WhoBlah21 how is this any better? lol
@@WhoBlah21 to continue on your metaphor: the experience of a lot of women is more like having ice cream thrown at their faces, or being physically dragged into the store when they don’t want to be. Men often see it as women having more choice but don’t see the coercion and threat of violence behind the attention that women constantly get.
anime conventions were kinda good for staying out of mannosphere. like you said, doesn't solve everything. Just the NUMBER of black girls there, existing, loving the thing i do and love talking about it like I do. There were girls of all races there as the conferences got less racist and more inclusive.
Nah literally went to my first con ever in Memphis last month and DUDE! I knew Black girls liked anime, but the amount of wigs! The cosplays🥴! Ain’t no way someone walks away from that thinking “girls don’t like me cause I like nerdy things”
@@mazkerade 😂 never went to a con bro maybe I got to go to a few now that y’all hyping it 😂
Anime communities can be bad in some corners
But when they hit. They hit different
One of the most wholesome groups y'all can find
As many problematic tropes progressives are pointing out that they have
They have as many or more wholesome lessons and values they preach
Fundamentally acceptance, and that shit absolutely the stuff progressives need
And it packaged in a kyun kyun or explosions and blood in your face shit?
You connect with your young generation
Honestly I find a big reason gen z are generally more progressive
Not only bcos anime is more mainstream than ever before
But bcos all the other western cartoons they get on have clear influences from, or references to, anime like Steven universe, Gumball, owl house, she-ra, star Vs forces of evil etc. etc. and the newer amphibia, Craig of the creek
Wish your comment could reach higher bcos more progressives need to see this
I see such a wave of pushback bcos some ppl spotted some problematic tropes in anime
But you don't need to cancel anime or weeb fandom or culture as a whole bcos of that
I feel it hurts the progressive movement and not the protection they think they are achieving
@@wynoglia I mean it's neat that times are changeing but let's not sit back and pretend that conservative dudes don't have some weird obsession with anime. The amount of people with anime avatars pushing white supremacy and just the interwoven culture of the chans and neo Nazi fascist ideology was enough to make me cringe whenever I see the anime aesthetic. Much like the angry nerds who remember a time when they were pushed into lockers for liking comic books so too do older black people remember when white weebs were openly racists AF at conventions.
My dad has been surprisingly getting more into these spaces. The other week he told me I needed to be a "Alpha male" to get women and I needed to change the way that I behave to be more masculine to attract them. He also likes Kevin Samuels and doesn't like single mothers which is surprising considered he has 2 black daughters and my sister is a single mother. Also that he married a single mother, listening to him just made me sad. I have a sneaking suspicion that manosphere shit convinced him it was ok to cheat. I wouldn't consider myself super masc but im ok with who I am and it's weird for him to tell me that I need to change as if I won't be able to find a single person that likes me for who I am.
I would say the manosphere definitely got to him hard. However, I do believe that beyond the manosphere talking points there is solid evidence that men who don’t replicate the typical patriarchal image of what’s manly will most definitely have a harder time attracting women compared to men who fall into that box. Especially if you are dating with the black community where it’s promoted to reflect that image.
@@imanigordon6803 but those typical patriarchal relationships are usually pretty miserable and transactional
@@imanigordon6803 It depends on what you’re looking for in a woman. Data supports the reality that women are only interested in those types of men short-term, but not for anything long-lasting or family related. Women tend to associate nurturing behavior with ideal paternal traits for their children. Trying to be an “alpha” is kinda like women trying to emulate video vixens to attract men. Most men don’t find that aesthetic or behavior useful for a family or relationship.
@@LoneWulf278 it's such a classic American problem why don't more people see it!?!??! These disaffected young people are sucked into the superficiality of (cis/het/performative/pretty/rich) relationships, and instead of understanding and critiquing like capitalism or gender, the manosphere (and the divestment girls) are just doubling down on this wack ass culture where love is only about looks and money and life is only about all three. I just wanna knock some sense into these kids and say get the fuck outta the mainstream....! Get into subculture get into building community activism church ANYTHING but this celebrity/wealth fantasy land! It's like I watch lonely people try to hook up w/ people at the bar and then complain that the only people they meet just wanna f*ck....Make it make sense!! Critique EVERYTHING and expand your social circles folks 😩
@@juicyparsons 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I really feel like a lot of dudes let media, social and traditional, convince them that they're not worthy and talk themselves out of some play. Like I can't tell you how many "yo why you never tried to talk to me"s I got years after the fact that as a grown man were so blatantly obvious at the time. Like no 🧢 had a girl straight up give me lap dance I'm class and I'm up here crying about how nobody likes me 😭😭😭
Regularly
I love the media!
😂😂
Dude all these men with a penis size complex baffle me because how is this possible when a lot of these dudes are virgins?!
Reminds me of that time I rejected my crush in HS 😶
I had every factor going against me from a young age. Poverty, bad parents ect, but I was always a pretty guy so I had some level of confidence. Pretty privilege is a real thing in that it did get my foot in the door, but I still had to learn to be an interesting person. That matters way more.
@@blasphimus exactly, OP said it best when he said being good looking gets your foot in the door but the personal development that makes you interesting means more in the long term.
still beats bein poor & ugly 😂
Being an interesting person is definitely the main thing. I'm a 5'8" dude and 33 and never had an issue with height. Women have with theirs for getting sale sizes, but I can't recall ever being bullied by a woman about it. I just leafed it into the rude person pile and stopped talking with them. Being interesting, having hobbies, those are the key things.
@@unstoppableExodia that's something that the manosphere never really grapples with. There are so many men who by the manospheres reckoning should be living a perfect life. They're rich and good looking and hard working yet they have 15 failed marriages, a coke addiction and 5 pending lawsuits. I mean you'd think they'd look at these millionaires failing and go "wait but if they can fail and they got everything the manosphere says I need then wtf is up with that." Lol
This right here 💪🏾
This was refreshing. I unfortunately got sucked into the manosphere during COVID and I’m glad I dipped out of that space fr.
It can be easy because I think the manosphere mentality tries to give simpler answers, even though they are BS, to the struggles of life, and we don't all have the time to spend digging deep into everything we are dealing with especially nowadays. Good to hear folks find people like FD who speak genuine truth to power
I'm so glad you were able to get out of that. I think it can be easy to get caught up in, especially because it's often disguised as advice and self help. Good on you for personally growing.
I’m considering uploading a video to share my experience with the manosphere venture just as a story telling video
@@rejavenated It would be very interesting but be safe ! there are crazy mofos ont these communities
Very soon you'll be getting the "move on already" from people who've been asking your thoughts on the manosphere because they aren't getting the opinions they like 😂.
Well, how much MORE does he have to say about a community he spent 3+ hours bashing? We get it: he thinks men online are bad unless they're exactly like him, so they're all trash...
@@christopherbrown5409 Yep. Here u are 🤣🤣🤣. Manosphere bashes women 24/7 for years but that 3 hour video was the real overkill 🤣🤣🤣
@@Xara_K1 Nailed it!
@@christopherbrown5409 now can You Say it without crying ?
@@Xara_K1 sweetie, since when does the entire manosphere bash all women? I'll wait...
Also, it's not the 3-hour total videoS (plural, heau) that's my beef so much as the CONTINUED manosphere bashing while only devoting a good 15 minutes to divestors and "femininity" gurus, and his moronic statement that the manosphere promotes false narratives when so many men experience/d them.
This was a better take. Its important we reflect on our age and personal experiences as we look at what Zoomers are experiencing. I too grew up without Reddit, TH-cam and manosphere content. I had to... go out and learn game, and didn't have this stuff to poison my mind and push me deeper into my dysfunction. I think you're also glossing over the impact of Tinder and On Line Dating tho
Fresh n Fit trash tho no one is defending those grifters
A lot of it is a mixed bag and requires nuance…. EXCEPT fresh and fit. They suck
The impact Tinder and similar apps have had on online dating is to turn women off from online dating. We've retreated back to our niche communities, so just like in the 90's you have to go out and meet people or be interested in things other than whining about women.
I really don’t want to hype myself up too much, but literally one of my friends had a “Black women don’t like me” phase. And I had to talk to him about how it’s not Black women’s problem that he can’t talk to them, and that he needs more personality than just the nerd shit. We were into the same shit still are now, and I wasn’t getting girls back then either. But I think that convo at 18/19 changed the course of his life. Because he could’ve truly been lost. I think people need just 1 friend who can tell them, “not getting women, and specifically Black women, is your fault. You have to work on you”
I really feel like the part that helped me considering I was the same age (18) was that I wasn’t on social media that much at that time, it was 2014 so I was mostly just watching gaming content and anime. So i thank God I was able to avoid the manosphere BS
I'm sorry but that ain't the advice that I would give anybody when it comes to dating. Telling someone that it's their fault that they're single is problematic in several ways and is actually something that lines up with the talking points from the manosphere. There's a difference between telling someone to better themselves and telling someone to change who they are.
@@bmslhs I didn’t tell him to change who he was. I even included that he’s still openly into the same stuff he was into back then. I didn’t want to include everything I said because it would take forever because it was a 2 hour convo 8 years ago. But the goal was really to not only better himself, but also to let him know, the women not liking him wasn’t because of what he was into, but because he didn’t know to talk to women, he didn’t have any confidence in himself, and he blamed what he was into. I even told him, if a Black woman doesn’t like him just because he likes anime and comics, that’s stupid and her fault. But most women don’t care about that stuff. Just learn to talk about more than just the nerd stuff he was into, because there’s more to life than just that stuff and he can’t blame women for that
@@bmslhs so it wasn’t all criticism, there was encouragement and there was a lot of understanding too. Again, it wasn’t to have him change his life, but like more to change his mindset, especially when it came to Black women, that they don’t like guys who are into nerds. So while I said it was his fault, I didn’t say it was completely on him, but to not blame Black women as a whole for his issues. Again, it was a long back and forth convo between 18 year olds, that wasn’t perfect, but helped turn him away from a Kevin samuels, fresh and fit path
I disagree, as a matter of fact this the type of advice that be pushing people into Inceldom and Blackpill, why should your friend have to go through the trials and tribulations of stepping out of their comfort zone without any realistic positive reassurance… just to attract women? How is it possibly their fault that they’re so nerdy or square for black women?
social media accelerates radicalization
That's it's best function in my opinion!
If there’s one thing I want to give my kids on this subject: the sex you’re attracted to are people, just talk to them like really talk. Get to that long conversation where you start sharing your childhood and that, and it’ll all be alright. If they aren’t interested they aren’t for you, just self assess and keep growing and changing. It doesn’t matter what society dictates is attractive because people are all different, and you’re somebody’s definition of hot. Some people don’t find anyone sexually attractive, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Secondary attraction exists. Get to know people. If you get rejected, oh well she likes cherry pie, and you’re pumpkin. Somebody likes pumpkin. Maybe you need a little cinnamon. Whatever. Some people just don’t like pie. Being alone isn’t bad. There’s a billion other experiences to have, go find them and have them. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with you as a human being.
For people in general, I’m on the asexual spectrum, and I can tell you, that chad over there is just as not-attractive(better word is meh 😒) as you. Show people like me something interesting and maybe they’ll be into you as a person. Asexual doesn’t mean “no sex”. A lot of asexuals like sex(some don’t). It just means you and chad have the same sex appeal to them at first glance. And nope we’re not all Beckies thank you. Can’t tell you how many of us are told we’re a “waste” because we’re asexual.
You had me in the first half till you typed that ace nonsense
@@christopherbrown5409 ie: "How dare people that are different from me EXIST!"
And... Even before you go trying to date, be good with yourself, first. You need to be able to be okay with yourself, before trying to add the complexity of relationships.
Don't use relationships as a way to have someone else take care of you, physically or emotionally. Give and take is good, but not all give give give or take take take. And don't stop trying to better yourself, just because you're now in a relationship. You owe it to yourself to keep trying to grow.
But i'll eat anything! Can someone just give me a taste?!?!?
@@christopherbrown5409 chill. It's this persons life not yours 🙄
Literally just spoke on facts and added their own experience here you are calling it nonsense.
FD said "F**k you, pay me!" 😂
I went to his Patreon and paid him. He's helped me help some adult children I gotta explain this to apparently.
True! I’m your age and when I think about the stuff I got into when I was a kid, and my vulnerability at the time I’m like “shit, I might have ended up as a fascist incel or something.”
The feedback and pushback I got from my actual social circle, and the fact that there was just less to go deep into, saved me.
(I see that you’re talking about the black manosphere. I’m an old white dude, but the similarity in experience based on age is still there).
Sometimes I really think my Aol dial up and barely functional e machines computer saved me from falling into some real f$cked up traps as a child lol I wouldn't have become an incel but you can bet I would have made a terrible myspace page and gotten into some real toxic fandom shit if my internet hadn't been so slow i could only download midis instead of mp3s lol
"Culture for Service and Service for Humanity." Keep doing the work frat. GOMAB.
Blu-Phi!
Y'all wear bones? Serious question.
Should’ve known all this wisdom was coming from my CONSTITUTIONALLY BOUND brother. Hey Frat!!!
What's up, frat? Loving how you are providing a dope alternative to the madness out there. I am one generation ahead of you, but my story was very much like yours in terms of having the things that made me susceptible to the manosphere be tempered by lived experience. We men can be easily swindled in our youth when anybody promises us 1) certainty and 2) ways to get laid. Doubly so if they're charismatic. As with PUA, most people in these communities leave after they got what they came for (increased sexual partners, somebody who is wife material, etc.) The ones who stay tend to be motivated less by sex or relationships, but more by revenge and power...for all the reasons you named.
Keep doing the work. GOMAB!!
Im glad that I didn't discover the manosphere in my adolesence because I probably would have turned out a completely different person than what I am now. I never fit traditional male norms much, and was not the most masculine guy out there. I randomly discovered the manosphere at the age of 21, I was struggling, depressed, everyone was getting into relationships and I wasn't, I was in my junior year at university, I randomly discovered "Chad memes" and "The Red Pill" and I started consuming content, and I even said Redpill lingo in public such as "All women want Chad and Tyrone" and "I wanna score with a plate at my formal" and one time I was drunk, I got into an argument with someone, and said "Why are you all beta males".
I luckily left the manosphere 2 years ago, I wasn't too deep into it, but the youtube algorithim kept recommending me videos on how to be masculine, and "Why modern women are problematic" and "Nice guys finish last" and "Go MGTOW".
I bet the 4th of July perpetrator Robert Crimo was an avid manosphere follower. Groups like that are dangerous, because they are radicializing angry men to commit henious acts of violence.
I feel like more people at the intersection of privileged and marginalized identities (ie Black men, white women, cis gays and lesbians, etc.) need to be more open to what kind of bigoted radical movements we would've been susceptible to, and I think that's a really good thing you touched on in this video and others. I'm not Black or male but it is very helpful to hear someone talk honestly and openly about how the manosphere could've sucked you in had you just been at the wrong place at the wrong time.
In my personal experience, though this is not necessarily related to anything else you say in the video: as a cis queer woman, I think a LOT about how I possibly could've been persuaded by TERF rhetoric if I had just been young and naive enough on the wrong parts of the internet, because I definitely at least sympathized with some of their most basic "gender critiques," before I had ever heard that term "gender critical." Now, trans allyship is a very important part of my life, and I think I am who I am as a queer person very much thanks to my friendship with other members of the LGBTQ+ community, in no small part including trans men, trans women, and nonbinary people. BUT there was definitely a time when I had many misconceptions about what being trans was, simply because I hadn't met or heard or listened to anyone trans. They were invisible in my life. How was I *supposed* to understand them? Not unlike the way in which many men without much relationship experience have huge misconceptions about women, and in those situations it's hard to let most of the blame fall on the individuals when they start to develop some... Bad Takes.
I wouldn't say I was ever openly hostile to trans people, which is important-I just sorta didn't "get" them at all. And the fact that I also fundamentally never *wanted* to hate or scapegoat trans people or trans women in particular. I never thought of them as a blight on my feminism. I was more passively cisnormative than actively transphobic, and I suppose that may have been where the difference was. But if I had the wrong sorts of reckonings with my blind spots as a cis person, if I had been incentivized to double down on my casual transphobia instead of being open to learning, which is soooo easy to do... why would I be above being radicalized? I'm sure in some possible timeline I could've felt hurt enough to twist it into an us-against-them mentality, to make trans women's existence seem like an attack on my own queer identity. Like cis women and trans women can't coexist and cooperate, but must contradict each other.
I just want to reiterate, I completely disavow TERFs (they are a hate movement) and think all trans people are valid. This is something I sort of imagine as more of a guilty nightmare, or my own personal episode of the Twilight Zone. I hate thinking about how that could've been me. I just wanted to dump this rant here, because your video got me thinking on stuff I always try to navigate in spaces where I am an "ally"-and really, all of us who are allies, to any group, should never think of ourselves as *so much better* than people who share in our same privilege. Because we all have the capability to be oblivious, manipulative, and harmful like the people who work to perpetuate (insert systemic disadvantage). These systems are in place to benefit us first and foremost. Instead we should examine what we see directly in our own lives and search for ways of changing our communities for the better, which is no small task. It can be so much easier to act like we're the real victims so we can avoid confronting any problems entirely.
Well, that was a long rant. Got a little preachy there for a second. Don't know how to end it now. I'm gonna go to my Duolingo.
Man, I’ve been watching your videos for some time now, and I gotta say you really inspire me to put myself out there as a positive role model.
I'm somewhat like you but younger. I had a girl I liked bully and break my heart when I was 12, and I can tell you I was prime recruitment material for the manosphere when I was a teenager til about the age of probably 18. But luckily for me, no such community existed and I dodged that bullet as a result. Idk how different it'd go if I was growing up now instead. But despite becoming knowledgeable enough about women's issues as an adult to never trust the manosphere community, I still dealt with the painful reality of feeling unloveable and permanently cursed to be single, even though I knew it wasn't true consciously. I still literally didn't even have my first relationship til 2 months ago, at the age of 27 (i've turned 28 since), and it only lasted a week (tbh i'm still processing that break up). So yeah, I definitely get these men and how they're feeling, but also at the same time, what they believe is fucking terrible and hard not to take the piss out of.
Also even though I've never been in any of these incel / manosphere spaces, what you said about being disconnected from reality and being terminally online really reminded me of how true that is for me with being a communist. It's something I've already been forced to recognise in the recent past as I've started to become more social.
I had a similar situation
Politics aside, if you're not sociable enough to prevent getting bullied by girls then you REALLY don't want socialism. Socialism benefits the popular more than anyone else because people no longer have the option of using money to offset their anti-social appearance or behavior.
Incel is a common insult in socialist/communist communities nowadays.
I'm a 16 year old black boy and your videos are very informative!
I first got into the manosphere 7 years ago looking for motivation to not commit suicide. And I found it. Thankfully that was back before blackpill was popular.
Hope you are doing ok now bro
Glad you pointed that out. F&F barely gets half of 1% of their subscribers to view their content on average🤣. I follow smaller channels who gets way more views and engagement plus are growing like a sprouting seed🪴at the same time😩🤦🏾♀️.
They’re like a big ole air inflated potato chip bag containing half of a potato chip crumb inside smh 🤦🏾♀️.
i really love you man. there is something so profoundly empathic about you. i hate to say that it is because you are older than a lot of your viewers but for me you give YOUR life experience combined with empathy and understanding that making it a really transformative experience. i got out of manosphere ideology when i was a freshman in highschool, but im 21 now and i really think you are going to do and have done a lot more for online discourse and understanding and like holy shit man i love you so much
I love these B sides, Fiq.
“I couldn’t spend all my time on Netscape..” wooo bleak times 😩
I was thinking about this after watching your videos too, I graduated high school in 2005 and the manosphere shit just wasn't an option for socially awkward boys back then. You couldn't run and hide online, the only option was to get out and keep trying. Sobering to think that I would have been a prime target to get sucked into this space as a kid, and maybe the only thing that prevented it happening was being born in 1986 instead of 1996.
The experiences hasnt changed. The goals havent changed. The feelings havent changed. The outcomes havent changed.
But you avoided being in that sphere since the information and supportive community wasn't present or pervasive.
As a concept, that would like a bad thing for any other aspect in life, but this case is touted as a good thing since... you dont like or agree with it, or its execution does line up with your beliefs...?
For whatever reason, its existence wont go away due to the reasons at the start of this comment combined with the social desire and technology to find answers. Its problems are the intrinsic issues versus the operational ones - like unreasonable standards from women (intrinsic) versus going out and trying to get women/laid (operational). Which is also a key point of the sphere, fixing operational prerequisites (money, health, mindset) by overcoming intrinsic blockers.
All in all, the sphere is a good thing to exist, isnt impervious to critique, and could be better.
Rejection and isolation really do hurt. That's how these people get an audience. And it's sad because all they do is blame women and dehumanize women, which is both wrong and dangerous to society.
Too bad there's not enough people trying to help these people from a place of caring and understanding. Like it's fucked up that we'll say "just go to therapy" when it costs so much and if someone is not neurotypical they might struggle to see eye-to-eye or engage with a neurotypical therapist (I'm autistic and found that I communicate better with a therapist who is themselves autistic too.).
"I'm not gonna debate your fave. I don't get paid to do that. Your fave does." Daaaang
doing God's work, FD thanks
My experience is similar to yours. I remember when online activity and video games was a choice. One of many options. Even then, there were guys who were chronically online and on pc games. I was a virgin until I was 20. I had opportunities earlier but was either too afraid and sabatoged myself or missed the ques entirely. I had friends that were great with women. I had older friends that were great with women. They built my confidence and explained women to me literally and I got to observe them do well. It's unfortunate that many young men don't have this chance anymore. It's uncommon to spend time outside. Even more uncommon to end up in places where women are. Women still shop offline, go out for drinks, go to eat, go to the park and do other events. They're everywhere. The manosphere is a reinforcement zone. Where they have men work on all of these self improvement endeavors. But they tell them not to approach women until they're a finished product. By that point, even if you do it you're anti social and woefully unprepared for building IRL relationships. It's a sad thing. Because from my vantage point, women haven't changed in how they move through daily life that much. But men definitely have. There's some societal differences, but the same opportunities exist. You do not have to be wealthy, chiseled and a "alpha" to get women. You have never had to be. You just have to understand yourself and present it properly. You also have to be able to handle rejection. That's really it. I'm simplifying things but it's really simply simple. What makes it impossible is they have a society and capitalist system that has encouraged them to stay on screens indefinitely. It is a problem. My generation didn't have that problem. We were encouraged to spend our time and resources in brick and mortar structures.
I've been loving your manosphere videos. I hope younger men and teenagers who have fallen into that world come across your channel and reconsider things from a fresh perspective. This is very important work you're doing, especially since you're coming from a place of understanding. Thank you for all of this
I'm in my thirties and I'm recovering from a breakup after a 6 year relationship. I'm back in my hometown and it's a small town where everyone I knew is gone, there's nothing going on socially and it's full of kids and old people. Everyone pretty much leaves for college and stays gone.
I guess I'm an incell now? Is it's time to join a cult?
Joking aside, it's pretty much impossible to meet new people in a place without social events and clubs or anything centered on hobbies or activities. I can see how some people might go off the deep end and get caught in one of these hate peddlers' rhetoric, where they channel all their frustration and negativity, especially if they're not doing well psychologically.
I think larger cities are a lot better in these situations.
Social isolation is a.key feature
@@signifiedbsides1129 I'm reading a lot of entitlement from men in these responses and even in your video and it's confusing me. I grew up an obese, loudmouthed, less than attractive nerdy girl and had it made abundantly clear no guy owed me attention so I learned to never take t personally when I was overlooked because I really wasn't willing to engage in the level of labour I was shown it would take to maybe attract the kind of guy I wanted. So I'm wondering why guys have this sense of entitlement to women's interest? Because it seems that when we are rejected it's made clear we're the problem, but I'm now understanding that when guys are rejected, somehow they're allowed to also presume that we are the problem and that's wild to me 😯
"Friend zoned on Netscape" 😆 Pure poetry!
Thanks for pointing out that subscriber to view count ratio. Looking at your views made me think a bit. it could be that your quality content gets shared with people that aren't subscribers since it's worth sharing. Keep it up!
Once a person in it actually has a conversation with someone in their daily life that isn't in that bubble they see how ignorant they sound about life and women they usually make steps to change and eventually lead a happy life.
I talk to myself daily. Does that count?
That’s true. The good thing about real-life socializing is that you get the opportunity to test ideas on people who will give you immediate feedback. If you can’t bounce things off someone else’s mind, how can you know if you’re crazy? You’ll have no self-awareness because you’ll only attract like-minded people in a little bubble on the internet. It’s unfortunate.
What you say sounds good, however it isn't true. I asked a close friend why get married, what's the significance?
" we do it because it the right thing to do." He's said.
Me: "so it's like tribalism? You do what the tribe does?"
Him: " No it helps with your will when you have kids."
Both of us did alot of reading and back and forth that night. We still disagreed, but we learned from each other. He said "marriage has no real significance, we give it significance so we can maintain certain things in society, keep structure at home, allow the government to recognize who's connected to who, but we can do most of these things out of wedlock besides the privileges afforded by the government." That basically paraphrasing cause It's been awhile. I really got him thinking about how alot of things we do as guys we just do because we feel it's right. All of money and time we spend on women to uphold their desires and validation etc. It's all apart of the same puzzle and nothings wrong with that. He showed me the value of a union from a perspective of validation.
But my friend is understanding, and I think alot of people misunderstand and assume all of the guys the in sphere live in the basement seething with hatred. When you look at things objectively it's easy to understand.
@@babyboijeremy the conversation you used as an example was totally different then some of the things manosphere people push. From the sounds of it you didn't ball in on your friend and start out with "why are women so obsessed with marriage? I'll tell you why because they're harpies who crave stability and have only their looks as value so they have to trap men with children to give them meaning in life!"
You might have gotten a pretty different response from your friend if you had gone in full manosphere assumptions machine gun lol like it sounds like you just had a conversation about the societal value of marriage which is a pretty normal conversation to have and didn't go full "high value mate, alpha male, sigma grind" weirdness that anyone outside the manosphere would be turned off by.
You hid your power level for a normie basically
@@strayiggytv I gave you a FIRST hand account in my experience, and your saying" No,no your wrong this is how your conversation should have went."
What your saying is a blatant misunderstanding of the tone of the majority of channels I've seen. You open with a question as if I have some animosity towards a women who want marriage. You like alot of others suffer from Kevin Samuel's effect. You only see viral clips and draw conclusions putting all of those people into a box.
I’m not apart of the manosphere either. I got kicked out for actually trying to help people. Yeah
Jesse Lee Peterson is a part of the Manosphere or more like the Coonesphere 😂
Right! I’m so glad you said this! A lot of these dudes have been on TH-cam for 10+ years. Getting money finally in their old age, finally being able to have experience with women by using said money. And then the young ones comes along with all their awkwardness, insecurities, and struggle. And then they make their situation worse.
I always told my boyfriend, I don’t understand where they are these men are TRYING to lead other men. But they are leading them down the wrong road.
Loving all the b sides lately!
GOMAB frat. Came across your channel last night. You got some dope content fasho!
Thank you for sharing because I was more Gullible in my youth too. That’s what happens when one doesn’t know how to protect their good heart, mind and spirit
New subscriber! Thanks for being such a positive example of black male maturity. BM and BW don't have to agree on everything but its nice to see the kinds of people we can still have respect and love for after all is said and done. Keep representing! You are needed more than you know!
Lol idk why I just remembered being at a festival back in the 90s with my tween friends and feeling cute, and a black dad had his like 12 year old son with him, and they were both holding wads of cash, and the dad was like “spread the money out, fan it out and show em!”
That is WILD. What's the intention, though? It's so bizarre.
@@Acidfunkish lol, he was teaching his son how to attract the ladies 🙄 😂
A lot of ways that keep people from being able to get out of the manosphere is that there is no way to really date in the real world anymore. I was in college in the 2010's. You can get dating by getting into extra curriculars even if it's super hard. But once you're out of college, those groups go away. A lot of girls are also terminally online too. It's not just the boys online like this.
A lot of girls are not in extracurriculars and they aren't in bars. My brothers would use tinder and hook up with a different girl every weekend (because they were attractive). All the girls I've dated don't really go outside. Which works if you're an introvert.
I'm on my 30's now and dating is still really hard. I'm attractive, not an idiot, with good money and interesting hobbies. I can't pick up women at bars and finding real world extracurriculars is terrible. Single women mostly just stay at home and online.
I need to investigate modern dating more to understand. I do think it's possible to create social networking spaces via interests. Like momocon was a week ago and it's a huge space to socialize
I'd say those groups are still there, just less centralized. Almost every woman I've been involved with post-college I met while engaging in my interests and hobbies, at least the ones that required me to leave the house anyway. So places like the gym, gaming meetups, cons, local concerts/shows, all that shit. I was never actively on the prowl but I would eventually bump into someone cute and/or interesting over a long enough period.
I know fuck and all about the bar scene cause I go to bars to drink expensive bullshit, not be social. Even if that werent the case I'd rather try my luck at a con where I can be knowledgeable and engaging about weeb shit vs trying to cold call at a bar where everyone's already on guard anyway. Probably have better luck trying to score at a pottery class.
@@Fooacta %100 this. I am a woman and I can tell you if you have a hobby that's where all the ladies are.
Now it does kind of open up the door to dudes who get into a hobby just to hit on everyone and nobody likes that but actually finding a hobby you like can be a good way to meet women.
@@signifiedbsides1129 You can't make blanket statements on the manosphere and compare things "back in your day" when you are totally ignorant about the struggles of modern men. With such a majority of initial interactions being online today, it's extremely biased against men who do not have the aesthetics going for them as much as other guys. And modern expectations are completely warped because of social media. Comparison is the thief of joy. The manosphere has many toxic elements but there is a reality that it's 10x harder for an average guy in looks/income/social status to secure a relationship than it was in any previous generation.
@@signifiedbsides1129 Momocon? Dude you live in GA?
I’m around the same age as this guy and relate heavily to what he be sayin. I’ve had times where I was susceptible to that whole manosphere (and it’s precursors). I’ve even read a pirated copy of an ebook by one of the big pick up artists when in my early twenties. It was made up of techniques that ranged from ‘get confident, stupid’ to a light form of hypnosis that sounded plausible on paper but when I considered actually trying to use it in the real world seemed like something that would seem strange and hard to explain if it didn’t work and was questioned about what I tried to do. Some bits were useful and seemed to be based on something that isn’t bs but there was a lot of toxic ideology in it to justify the use of underhanded methods to get a girl in bed. The thing I could never resolve even at my most vulnerable and susceptible is if I’m prepared to use an approach that deems nothing off the table if it gets results, then what’s to say something even more reprehensible like slippin a Mickey is off the table. I mean if it’s supposedly ok to use a form of hypnotic suggestion to bypass her will then it’s not that big a leap to achieve the same result using even more underhanded means. I had enough common sense to question enough of it to avoid getting sucked into that ideology.
I had assumed nobody took that stuff seriously as recently as around 2010. Until a friend at the time who I’d previously heard go on about alpha and beta males with complete seriousness so much that an older friend of his had to say to him straight up to just forget about all that stuff because it’s all fugazi. But he held onto it and when he discovered a girlfriend of his was cheating on him he spiraled into injecting hard drugs because he was tortured by the feelings that it happened because he wasn’t enough of a man to keep them satisfied. I had no idea it was happening at the time. Only found out years later when he got counseling and finally realized it happened because she was a bitch. If she wasn’t happy being with him and wanted to be with someone else she could have and should have been up front and spared him the added pain of doing it behind his back. At one point he was forwarding emails of pick up artist stuff ten years ago that was drenched in all of that toxic ideology that women are evil creatures to be hunted, subdued and broken into submission and subservience I had to tell him to stop sending me that shit. But I can see how that shit gave rise to red pill ideology and incels. Because when you buy into that stuff and believe every word of it only to find that the techniques learned in the pick up artist courses and books you believe in and paid for don’t have you waking up next to supermodels or even anyone on the regular then it’s easy to start thinking it’s you, that you’re lacking something. And that’s when people can start thinking that they’re not a chad, a beta who’ll never be the alpha they dream of becoming, that they’re doomed to a life of involuntary celibacy and that life doesn’t matter because they were dealt a losing hand in the game of genetics.
Manosphere talks a lot but doesn’t do shit, I find that interesting
The crazy part is I don't disagree with a lot of what he says but I can't get with folks who have negative stuff to say about the manosphere but provide a solution let alone a place to build a man's confidence.
I understand that providing a space isn't what your channel is about but if you start having more videos talking about the manosphere in a negative context then I'm left to believe that you don't care about men's spaces.
With all the horrible manosphere content out here it's been amazing to see the response from the left. The content that folks like fiq and others have been making is going to help so many folks who may have otherwise gotten trapped by all the hate. Thank you for doing the work and producing a healthy alternative for people looking for advice and guidance.
Admittedly. . . back in our day there was at least a smidgen of reason to believe that capitalism and the market forces might be able to answer all our concerns. With another two decades of stagnant wages and sliding more to the right though? Yeah, it's far more appealing to look for easy answers rather than dunk your headspace into realizing what has to be done for most of us, let alone our children, to have any kind of meaningful future.
These are great points. And yeah, the internet has been both a blessing and a curse. I just still really struggle to understand why so many guys would want to be associated at all with a group of men generally considered to be incels and buffoons. Even internet popularity wise, the reason so many Fresh and Fit clips have gone viral is because they get dragged online on the regular--by every gender. If they had such a negative reaction to the girls they knew in real life rejecting or embarrassing them, why isn't the fear of that level of public humiliation more of a motivator for them to avoid the manosphere? If their goal is women, but the majority of people bigging up the manosphere are men, seems counterintuitive.
Or is it just that the manosphere provides a comforting answer as to why they're unsuccessful with women, which is that women are trash and unworthy of them?
I think the internet is more a blessing tho....
@@ralphwilsin In most ways, it is. But the internet can also be a dark place where the worst people find each other and spread hatred.
its fully a curse
@@cv8499 its only a blessing because of the fast media spread which is where all the craziness comes from
The last sentence. That’s your answer. 😂
Funny I should run across this video now. I was just catching up with an old coworker and something along this topic came up. He is 37 and was raised and still is very conservative. He was saying how he is so glad none of this stuff was around when he was in his early 20s. Long story short he was awkward, not great looking, not good with women, and roommates with some airhead that for whatever reason seemed to have no problem getting the "babes". He was very angry with the world, jealous of the dude he lived with, and had some pretty disturbing thoughts. Fortunately for him he was in a time when you still had to leave the house to work and socialize. He got better with work, women, and people in general. He is now just a regular older married millennial with kids who is pretty satisfied with his life. Where would he be if he wasted those precious early adult years sucked into negative social media instead of developing important social skills?
The channel is 🔥👁
4:00 completely agree, I could’ve became an incel I could’ve sunk to a low level. But I FORCED MYSELF to not do that, I FORCED MYSELF to conpartmentalize to stay sane and go out and do things to boost confidence in myself by getting GOOD at WHAT I DO.
Your point on subscribers vs viewers is the same mindset I have when people bring up a high percentage of KS subscribers were women. It’s not necessarily what it sounds like. Like people don’t take into account that his old content was probably attractive to a lot of women, whether they’re subscribed but not viewing, or if they’re even active on YT anymore but they’re still technically subscribed. There’s a lot of gray area on that subject.
Very well articulated points.
I feel a lot of what you are saying. I listened to KS and you. I foiund that he called out some hypocrisy, which was refreshing to know that I wasn't alone in experiencing/seeing it. I can say after that I was still looking for more understading, and that is how I found your channel(s). BTW I'm 37, single, no kids, with a career in medical sales to provide insight.
ah dude, im loving this channel more and more all the time. i was bummed that you(and the other channels i like, like this) were pushed into doing live chats like this cause i like the story form. but youre such a awesome person and youre thoughts are so important and healing for me. as a girl, im realizing just how delusional, ignorant, and hateful almost all the men around me are. thank you for making me feel somewhat more safe as a working women, who rents a room in a house with 3 other men
I would also argue that...
"you have struggle IRL... But you found a community online to ESCAPE instead of dealing with IRL problem"
5:49 thank you for sharing because you addressed my comment. Rofl Yes. You hear me
Great commentary. Now I know from your testimony, I wasn't the only person that went through what you went through at 18-early 20s with not having woman experience. I wanted it really bad with the hormones raging. I was not bad looking guy. I was built like a linebacker and a fullback. I was an individual who didn't "drink the Kool aid" social bullshit in the early 90's of high school and college. I had that 1997 Stone Cold Steve Austin/Bill Goldberg/ECW Taz mentality. I was still easy to get along and down to earth. But even then being a mature young man with good principals were major challenges in college and life as well. Taken the almost same identical path you took.
One thing I've noticed from spending time online is that a lot of people in certain communities, such as Reddit tend to be very insular in their thinking and very middle class.
IDK how I came across Fresh and Fit, but I would watch them everyday for about a month and Im married and never had issues with women...but what they also did was make me okay with some of my sexist views, took years to admit I had male toxicity, then they made me feel okay about it, but I realized they were saying things that dont work long term....not saying everything they say is wrong but majority of what they say in the whole space is very narrow minded....
But I always thought all manosphere were lame guys, but info made me feel okay with some of my negative toxic thoughts, but Im back addressing my issue working though
Great energy 🔥😄
All of us youngins who never even came close to the manosphere are too powerful. Thanks for your wisdom fiq
No lie, I saw MGTOW license plates on a car this week.
Bruh no way 😂
I'm cryingggg 😂
Also, fiq didn't have dating apps like we do today which are disastrous for real life dating. From commodification, objectification, and ego deflation/inflation for both three user and their potential partners.
Really? Dating apps have been around since the late 90s.
@@niax782 Sega had a subscription steaming service in the 90s, that doesn't mean you can compare it to Netflix
@@sp123 I don’t know enough about Sega/Netflix to make a comparison. I know that dating apps existed in the late 90s.
@@niax782 my point is that the technology has improved so much over the years that they can't be compared because they serve the same function
@@niax782 Dating websites were around but back then they were way more taboo. You were “desperate” if you were found to use those back then lol
Damn bro, that kind of hit me hard. I'm not mad about it, but I have absolutely no healthy experiences with girls. Most of the times I've been with a girl it was a hook up and left me feeling kind of empty. Its left a bad taste in my mouth ever since. If i was an angry dude, i might have gone down that manosphere path as well, but thankfully i didnt.
As much as I hate it, you're right, I have to put myself out there even if it makes me uncomfortably. Idk, nice to hear someone talk real shit, and not just try to act tough. Thank you.
Sad that so few have the courage to accept the reality of our own flaws.
yeah FD I feel some of this, i feel ike i had a narrow miss with a really fcuked up head space.
I am 20 and i kinda found the manosphere by accident right. Found sandman, that guy with cars(forgot name) and some other small names. It was xaptivating at first for a 16yr old. But i kinda wasnt able to connect their dots. They talk about women being terrible and only wanting money/attention/this/that. And i couldnt see it, my sister or my mom or my girl friends. And i think i was susceptible to that stuff but reality saved me. Now i have found folks that are kinda in the manosphere but not really. We got aba and preach and a different guy but forgot his name as well.
I never got good advice from my parents and i never was the bar hitting guy(autism lets gooo, tho college changed that) so it was that missing point in my life. But once i got with my gf, even more of this toxic manosphere stuff becomes clear. Man having a source of help is good but when these clowns spout this dumb shit, i worry for my fellow men.
Edit: Think before you sleep is that second great channel
Great point💯💯💯
Gotta get that real life experience
He's view count is in close proximity to his sub count. He'll have greater longevity to the manosphere if he chooses. Love your vids and insight! Keep up the great work
I appreciate the image of the cute doggo laughing.
10k to see Jessie Lee clowned publically is a steal
Your comment "yes i can" on the 'you cant dimiss a community' bit reminds me of dealing with toxic parts of my own anti-lgbt family. (Especially after finding my boyfriend. I'm bi so I 'got a pass' while with a girl.) My dad kept saying "you cant just ignore them and move on" like, i did, been working great.
I had an antiSJW and libertarian phase in late highschool (2015/2018) when all I used was Facebook and TH-cam and while there was some shit on those platforms I can't imagine I'd have gotten out of it like I did had I been on Reddit, or Tik Tok. Where instead of a 20 min TH-cam video by AmoredSkeptic where I could see the bullshit after 5 minutes because they just reuse talking points and strawman arguements after 5 min. Compared to a youngster on TikTok seeing 20 second long videos that confirm their biases and insecurity. But since I was using long form essays to find ideas, anything that couldn't hold water for more than 5 minutes was quickly put under suspicion
Also oooof thaf Bill Nye Ken Ham debate you just showed was poppin back in the day lmao
I neeeeed to have these Livestreams up on the channel in a more permanent, rewatchable state
Patrons only I'm afraid
Haha this is awesome XD
the manosphere is freaking hilariously small and tiny and angry, they don't deserve a debate :P
You remind me a lot of my favorite history teacher.
I was also vulnerable to this. My best friend got into "pick up" and I always found it creepy, and I moved away from him because of it. But had a more charismatic person pitched it to me?
10k; sir, you undersell your value
I still see so much defense of KS and his "solutions" in these comments. Someone find me a success story made from these solutions, please. Or is it enough to just have something tangible to hold onto, even if it isn't actually bringing you what nor WHO you want? I can understand just having something for comfort, a philosophy with set of behaviors and goals one can work toward. But it is going anywhere? Have you achieved or on your way to achieving that goal? I'm very curious.
You see the same defense of Jordan Peterson every time he's brought up. The thing is these people do occasionally say something that isn't terrible life advice and I can see people who just happened to hear it from one of them first rushing to their defense when somebody criticizes them but the thing to remember is all of their basic life advice has been said a million times before by people who didn't have to couch it in 50 other toxic ideas lol.
Self help books have been around forever.
Not a Kevin fan and he definitely said some stupid stuff, but he got a few people married from his facebook group.
As FD said in his last manosphere video the opposing stuff is not good or viral worthy. These guys are still looking for steps on how to get women beyond general platitudes. Which the opposing manosphere section hasnt been successful at.
@@strayiggytv That's true. That's why I cannot take a soft stand on ppl that go the route of KS nor their adamant followers. The "he said good stuff sometimes" applies to everyone. We ALL make good points sometimes, I won't accept that as a reason to try to defend and legitimize the rest.
@@dclarke2179 I get it and I agree. At the same time I think it better if more ppl stopped concentrating on a particular side. Because the habit is that, if THIS side isn't helping, then THAT side must be right - but it's neither. We don't have to accept 100% of anyone's philosophy just because 15% was on the level.
Man, you might have the most accurate takes on all of TH-cam right now.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! danm... that "mud****a yes I can" killed me! XD
And you know someone has $10k drop too. There is a lot of money in this internet game.
So accurate 🎯💯
I have a friend who might be falling into the manosphere. Hopefully he doesn’t make it to fresh & fit
Why is the manosphere something to "fall in"?
Show him FD's videos. If he hasnt fallen into fresh and fit yet then there is hope to pull him back
My nephew is in that phase and it's starting to irritate me. But he's a good kid with strong male role models of all identities so I know he'll be fine because they're all collectively guiding him out of it. It's annoying trying to gently argue with him tho
@@christopherbrown5409 boy if u don't gtfoh
Tell him to watch my videos. All that other stuff is unproductive.
ever since you brought kayfabe into it i see it everywhere now. it’s like those “deviant”/alternative realities are kayfabes. really smart connection
The manosphere is a crazy place. It’s not only men who get sucked into it. I got sucked into it, and I’m a woman. I think I got sucked into because I was drawn to the controlling nature of it all. (Family trauma rears its ugly head.). I’m so glad that my daughter pointed out all of the anger in each video. There are people of all ages who get sucked into it. We also have MGTOW, men going their own way. A lot of these men are older.
So many people who are part of that world start to view women as something less than human. Her job is to do A, B, C, and D. “If she sees a dirty dish in my apartment,she needs to go wash it.” (I think MTR said that.). There are no discussions about mutual care or respect. There’s nothing about how to find a decent woman to date. It’s mostly just watching video clips of SPECIFIC women and reacting to it. It makes it appear that all women act in entitled ways and that they all want a wealthy husband.
I’m so glad that you mentioned how disrespectful these channels are to average men. It’s gross. There’s nothing wrong with being average. Most of us are average.
Am I the only one old enough to remember the pick up artist show that was on VH1? I think the vibes are similar to the manosphere channels.
I wonder if all of the F&F viewers know that BOTH hosts are on Sugar Baby/Sugar Daddy sites. 🤔
This title rings true, cant wait to get into this one.
God you’re so right
We had the barbershop.
I do not completely agree with the Manosphere! I belive that self improvement and going outside is the best way to meet people. One day I'll learn how to do those things.................
"self improvement and going outside" are vague and some manospherians emphasize self-improvement and a tactile experience of life. If the best you can say for yourself is "...one day I'll..." you need as much cold water in the face as you can find. Some of that cold water may come from the manosphere. A lot of these commenters are treading water just like you. You're not going to learn to swim from these mooks.
WASSUP MAB🤘🏾