Coming from a low level competitive MtG player I played the game on BGA a ton and it felt much deeper on a competitive level than I expected. There is a lot of strategy to choosing what to play and when, holding information and bluffing, setting up your reserve correctly, and reading your opponent at the same time. As for unique cards, if I am not wrong about deck building, one copy of a card is allowed in your deck per copy you own, so you cant just print your busted unique and jam 3 of them. Even if that is not correct and you can have 3 copies of a unique, only one person is going to be able to play it which while not ideal, definitely feels better than everyone playing a playset of Siege Rhino. (...what I'd give for those days tho. I âĨ Siege Rhino.)
You can print 3 of those uniques to use in deck for casual play. In order to use a legal deck in tournaments you will need to own (in our example) 3 separate digital copies of the unique card.
@@robertcrist6059 That will come down to your casual playgroup then. I would just play by the rules of deckbuilding for the competitive scene personally.
I wouldn't go as far as make multiple for the same deck but more power to you. I would just PoD the other two through ones my friends own that happen to fit so the deck is still legal for games but not tournament legal.
@@robertcrist6059 Which is impossible since they're all Unique :0 You gotta have different Uniques, they can be the same Character family but not the same card.
i played 10 or so games of this at one of their roadshow events and came away thinking, "yeah, i'll back this for the starters and probably a box". i think it could be a fun game to have around to play with my less card-gamey friends, but i just don't see it having what it needs to catch on in game stores the way it really needs to for me to want to put any real money into it. a lot of cool ideas! i hope they end up doing something neat with it (and that they find a better solution for the QR codes in the long run)
Theyâve said they are going to look at a more art style QR solution but right now they want the cards to be scannable very quickly in mass and the art-style ones are not as performant as the basic QR box. Definitely agreed itâs jarring but after playing a bunch over the last few months your brain starts to ignore it. The full arts are soo cool though so itâs definitely meh to have that box on there. What they pick up having it seems worth it tho (ie quick importing, automated deck checks that allow your account to save your Op stats around cards played with and against, automatically lore and FAQ access by card, automatic language translation when playing against cards not in your language; to name a few)
It's mechanically on the same level as SWU, the only thing it lacks is an established IP (which is getting fleshed out in incredible detail and quality for a newly created world build). I do agree that it does a lot of things differently in terms of card rarity, scarcity and the balance between players, collectors and investors. It makes it hard to put real money into it, but I'd rather put my money into a game where I can get all the cards for a reasonable price and not have to shell out 100+ bucks just to own a Vader and get a competitive deck. They made a system where card rights maintain value, without raising the cost of entry to new players who showed up late, allowing for bigger communities, less elitism, etc.
to be fair, the designer is coming from board game design. The only thing I'm really worried about is how retail stores are going to be affected by the print on demand system, but I get the feeling we won't know until it releases. Also, some people really need to look up what an NFT is, cause I've seen multiple people say 'NFT without the blockchain!' as if that makes sense...
Yeah itâs more that theyâre trying to do some of the things that Iâve seen nft/blockchain projects do, but in a completely centralized way so you have to trust that their database is accurate, up to date, wonât go down, etc -Mike
@literallyunplayable I mean it literally is an NFT without cryptoâĶ And if their website goes down or if they go out of business what does every player and collector do? Theyâre just hijacking the secondary market
@@LiterallyUnplayable for sure. I guess its just a bit weird seeing people worried when having digital ids seems to remove the artificial scarcity of anything but the unique cards, which is pretty friendly for casual players. Plus I wouldn't have to triple sleeve my favourite cards :)
â@LiterallyUnplayable not to be a Debbie downer, but tbh in today's world, this game is just a giant cyber crime waiting to happen. I love the concept of getting cards from the provider. But making 1-of cards that you have to basically QR scan to an account is just like asking for hackers to just profit off the scarcity of these cards to just profit. Since the owner can supposedly "trade/sell" those cards to people on their database. Then there is how secure the database, servers, physical location of the data storage is, etc to be concerned about and honestly I would not trust a group with a kickstarter to have the cybersecurity team on hand to handle it. They cost a ton. These are real world issues with their visions making this game. I'd love for them to restructure it, but i cannot in good conscience recommend investing in support for this game or buying it on release, unless you have absolutely no intention of using the online profile that will be needed to scan the card.
@@TheCheff93 Bro you're so misinformed. The system works the same way items and equipment in an RPG would. Is every online game with an inventory you've ever played an NFT without crypto??? You have an item code stored in a central server. Their website is maintained around the clock like any proper company, and if they go out of business then you're just back to the same starting line with other TCGs: the physical cards. Hijacking the secondary market is the only sensible thing you've said. Yes, they do have a monopoly there, but the commission is lower than TCGPlayer for example, and it eliminates any need for shipping. Cards get automatically translated so every card in the world is part of the purchase pool, and there's no chance of scamming, counterfeiting, lost packages etc. I'd take this any day over physical secondary markets.
I will say that certain game stores are hosting demo/roadshow events for Altered, which does give me hope that there will actually be support for this game, because it seems interesting at the very least.
I do agree about the QR codes. My eye is drawn to them first. I have played a few games as well with different factions than y'all played here and found it pretty fun.
Great opinions regarding the digital market system and QR codes stuff. There are two things I want to respond with. With my experiences with MTG that aren't as well attached to TCG biases, I wouldn't trust the secondary market with the trading as much as they devs from what I have seen. I don't want this game to get really dummy expensive due to the pumping of endogenous values into players through limited physical stock. I would rather just share the game with as many people as I want so that anyone can play the game. To help you understand the QR code, it is so distinct because it would be hard for a cheap phone to read while also storing lots of data in a small space. If the code were to be stylized to fit, the code would have to be bigger and have less data storage per cm. Even then the phones might have a harder time reading a card because of the styled code being so detailed for humans. They couldn't afford to make it hard to read because of it being a universal translator as well. Scanning the code will put up a card's oracle text in any language you want as well as bonus info like lore and such making computer readability a high priority. They might figure out how to add fonts but as it is, QR codes are the better pick.
If anything, the online marketplace should make it cheaper! There is no endogenous value different from a digital market place like TCGPlayer. Every card is auto translated, so every scanned card in existence can be traded, making the pricing very competitive. The physical scarcity is not only based on print size (which they are increasing just like SWU!), but also legal proxies printable on demand (max 1 euro per card, maybe less in bulk purchase). Lastly, the only scarce card rarity is Unique, which you only need 3 of per deck. Compared to SWU, this makes it way easier to put together a competitive deck without having to shell out dozens of euros/dollars per card. I plan on Printing proxies of my Uniques and sharing them with my community, so everyone can play with them casually. All this put together can make this the most affordable and easily shared TCG on a casual level that I've seen.
Totally! While similar in resource and lane system to SWU, it is more chess-like and definitely breaks away from the FAB/MTG clone structure of base health and dudes killing each other :)
From what I've read on BGG and the KS page updates, you can print any single card "into the ground" but some caveats: If playing casual play, you donât have to worry about anything besides deck construction parameters If playing in a tournament, you must own each card and by owning you must have a digital copy of each card. So having one digital copy (and thus one physical) of the Giant, but printing two more copies does not mean you own three copies, and therefore cannot use the two other printed Giantâs in a tournament. Should also go without stating, but if at one point you did own three digital & physical copies of Giant, but then sold the digital rights to the cards, but kept the physical versions, you no longer own the card and cannot use the physical cards in tournament play. Judges will be scanning decks and checking your library for ownership If you get a Unique card, you can print on demand 1 copy per year. An automatic timer will start when you print a copy blocking you from trying to print another copy until the year timer is up.
Mostly correct, with some small tweaks/updates: Uniques can also be printed indefinitely, only alt arts and promos have the internal timer to ensure scarcity and maintained value over time. Here, the PoD serves as a service for replacing damaged, lost or stolen cards, as well as printing physical copies of the cards you bought on the marketplace. "Printing into the ground" is a weird way to put it. With less than a euro per card, this makes it worthwhile to print foils, alt arts, some popular rares and Uniques. For the rest, the math leans to just buying packs, as you also get digital rights from them. I'll maybe print a hundred cards to fill out a playset, and then buy missing rights for cards I want to run competitively. If everybody is using PoD, then digital rights will increase in price due to scarcity, and people will go out to buy more packs. It's a wait and see where the equilibrium is gonna fall. It's such a novel mechanism that it is hard to predict, but the team is aware and conscious of potential pitfalls and hurdles that come with the territory.
Iâve backed this at the lowest level to get the KS rewards. The gameplay intrigues me as it departs from the traditional tcg. While I donât like the idea of the print on demand aspect, the QR codes, or the fact that it removes the physical store from the equation; it is niche enough to have a play at home copy for âboard game nights.â And since this is the first time Iâve stumbled on your channel, Iâm going to see if youâve already explored other KS TCGs that have piqued my interest (and if you havenât maybe itâll serve as possible material for future videos) - Paragon Monsters and Mayhem, X-Seekers of Fortune, Neverrift, Age of Eon, and Six Forms.
@@Chamos_games That statement, although probably not articulated as clearly as I had intended, was based on a discussion with the owner of my LGS who felt that the print on demand removed physical stores from the secondary market, basically limiting the buying/trading of cards to online markets under direct control of Altered or its manufacturing partners. If this isnât the case, great. Regardless, I donât feel that expressing an opinion is spreading false information.
@@Bryan-le3jw Um, you started your phrase with "based on the fact that", which is not exactly formulated as an opinion. But yes I'm sorry, I came off strong due to the accusation. The secondary market for Altered will largely consist of the marketplace operated by Equinox, to trade card rights for scanned cards. In some cases, as I've explained in other comments here, they are then feasibly printed on demand. However, not all cards are worth PoD as they will likely charge above 50ÂĒ per card, or need bulk orders to make it economically viable. People will still need to open boosters or trade physically, to get the card they're looking for. A store could even use PoD from within their community to create an entirely new form of secondary market: printing Uniques from local collections (with permission ofc) to sell as non-competitive, high-end cards for people to spice up their decks with. They would be discounted without the digital rights, but the majority of players would love to pick up more Uniques, from different card pools we've never seen before. Additionally, The alt arts and promos can only be printed once a year, so they will still maintain physical value after PoD, and can be sold in the traditional singles style. To be fair, I understand the concerns from LGSs. I had a similar conversation with my LGS owner about how the Kickstarter circumvented LGS distribution, and they're right. This was a dilemma for the team, as they wanted to both cooperate strongly and passionately with LGSs, but also reward the hatching community for supporting them through the years-long development. They used KS as a one-time event for this, and will only sell product through LGS/conventions in the future. They even formulated an OP roadmap for weekly casual tournaments at LGSs, with free prizes, both physical and digital, to encourage local, physical play. The PoD and marketplace does shake up the secondary market and will be novel and different. But that doesn't mean that they intend to alienate LGSs with this. They are services that are tailored for the unique state the game is in. I totally get why this could be a dealbreaker for your LGS, but saying things like "removing LGS from the equation" is misrepresenting the game in a hurtful way.
I'm with Jay on this, too many other great games I'm trying to get into and play more of, and support- FaB, SWU, Sorcery and still some Lorcana. Not to mention a few older games I would love to catch back up on- Marvel Champions, Legendary, and LOTR LCG (still my favorite solo card game). My wallet is already screaming no way lol
If you're not bothered about foils, alt arts and the slight edge Uniques give, then you can get really affordable decks of Commons and Rares due to their abundance and Print on Demand proxies. I'd wager it'd be cheaper than any good TCG currently out there :)
Great video guys. Iâm not drawn into this one. It seems ok but a little dull. I think Iâd take Balloon cup or lost Cities for a do you have more or less numbers than me game over this. I feel like it will have a small following but overall will be a flash in the pan.
Fair enough, but it sounds like you took a passing glance at best. I'd say that Altered is at least as exciting and difficult as SWU. It is even more mindgamey and chess-like due to the impermanence of the characters, with a more complex card system thanks to the Reserve and equal lanes. "The more or less numbers" is a gross oversimplification though, as you could apply this to most TCGs on the market, whether they are hit points, damage or base health. It's all math in the end.
I also have the same issues with the game as you guys. I'm not ok with the idea of NFTs, and the game operating like that really bothers me. The QR codes make the front face much less attractive, but I can see it's utility.
I asked my flgs on our discord who has been watching the KS and if the shop would consider doing a retail pledge, but one person responded and they were meh on the game (central ownership, selling fees, and printing fees), and the store owner said the same thing ya'll did, since the product is sold on KS, how does he make money for his shop, so he was out. This game seems to want to do so many things differently (in house) and it does seem to be ailenating wide swaths of people from the start. It will be very interesting two years from now if anyone will be playing this competitivly or if other content will come out, or if their print/selling systems are working.
The KS was a one-time thing to reward the community for supporting them through development. I agree that the alpha set circumvented the LGSs (they could do a retail pledge at 25% discount, which I understand is not a great margin for an LGS to take on a novel TCG), and has somewhat saturated initial demand. However, the game is growing exponentially and will only be sold through LGS in the future. If by "selling fees", you mean the marketplace commission, it should be around 5%? At least at the lower end compared to other platforms like TCGPlayer, which comes with the added benefits that you don't have to ship anything, worry about delivery time, counterfeits or being scammed. For personal/private sales you could opt not to scan the cards and ship them physicallyThe PoD fees are max 1 euro per card for now, likely cheaper when purchased in bulk. This makes it feasible for foils, alt arts, rare or Unique cards and for replacing damaged/lost/stolen cards. They are planning at least 6 sets from what I've heard, and I'm confident it will surpass that.
I think you came in wanting to not like it... you say you don't understand such and such decision, but clearly didn't do any research to try to understand the game, its design principles and its objectives... I'm super hyped and can't wait to deckbuild (the rarity restrictions forcing you to make choices with faction commons-rares and OOF rares are super interesting) and play with real decks (these demo decks are meant to be basic)... here's to hoping you give it a real shot when it comes out!
Hi, thanks for the explanations! A question: If I wanted to take multiple products in a single order, do you know what I should do? Because it makes me select only 1 item at a time with the relative shipping. I would like to get both the master pack and the expert pack, is it normal that I can't buy them at the same time? how can i select the starter after i buy it? Thanks so much for the replies, great! ;D
As with other KS projects I believe you back one of the main options then add any number of optional buys . Some KS projects will have optional buys that mirror the main ones to allow quantity increases but I donât think this one does. I suppose you could set up a second account or have a friend do the other one?
The complexity/skill ceiling is pretty comparative. There may be more luck dependency without the Mulligan, sideboard and the tight difference between winning and losing (could be just 1 stat in 1 biome!), which can turn away competitive players that demand extreme consistency in their decks. However, the devs stated that they always encourage players to find their own playstyle. Maybe we'll see different, highly competitive formats emerge in the future :)
I've been feeling really mixed on this game. On one hand, the gameplay seems interesting, and the emphasis on unique, expressive cards and mechanics is refreshing in the current TCG space. On the other hand, considering how Lorcana struggled to take off in my area despite their LGS-forward approach, how the heck would this direct-to-consumer, print-on-demand game ever get popular with game stores? The app functionality seems perfect for a digital play experience; I feel like some sort of hybrid digital/physical model is inevitably in their plans. That way, they don't care if game stores are hosting their game or not - enough people would be playing online and at larger events to keep the game alive. I could definitely see that working, but that's not what they're selling the game as right now. I'm guessing that's because a lot of TCG veterans wouldn't be happy with them cutting out local game stores, and they need those dedicated players to be invested in the early stages. Of course, that's just speculation.
I could definitely see that! They already have the ability to scan individual cards into your collection with the QR codes, might as well go a step further and let you use those cards that you own physically in a digital client -Mike
I can agree with the gameplay being neat. But I'm personally not investing because of the real world problems this game gives incentive to. I can only recommend you be careful if you do invest in it because it is a cyber crime waiting to happen. I honestly hope they realize they can't afford the digital protection requirements in the cybersecurity world and restructure the scan system because honestly I don't believe they will be able to long term afford a SOC to keep players digital ownership of cards safe, let alone player data.
@@manwithnoname9580 Yeah, security is definitely a concern. The website Q&A didn't go into much specifics, but they do state they are following "best industry practices". I think they are more than aware that security issues could destroy their reputation, at least. I'm sure they can already imagine the major PR fallout of even a single person losing their expensive collection to a scam... and that could still happen even if they DO maintain good cybersecurity practices with their current approach. That said, this is a company with seemingly little to no experience handling this kind of data, and we've seen very preventable data breaches happen even with companies that ought to know better... so yeah, probably just a matter of time before something bad happens; the unknown is more in the severity of it and how they manage the aftermath.
@@manwithnoname9580 I think you're skewing the math here a bit. On one hand, the cards are structured in a way that there will likely not be a black lotus level card that would entice cyber crime, and on the other hand they are a multi million dollar company. Assuming they can't afford a Security Operations Center is kinda wild. They have four models of income with sales of boosters, merch, printing costs and marketplace commissions. As long as people keep playing the game it should remain feasible. If it dies, then the digital ownership becomes worthless as there is no OP anymore...
The direct-to-consumer aspect is isolated in a one-time Kickstarter launch to reward the community that supported them through development (which could also be backed by retailers, with a 25% retail discount and 10% down payment). The first set will still be sold by LGS and any product (except maybe merch) will be sold by LGS and during events like GenCon (not this one but the next). The PoD does not replace boosters in any way and will only be economically viable for foils, alt arts and the highest rarity of cards. This would mean that people owning an expensive card (like an Altered's "Vader") can print cheap, factory quality proxies to give/trade with their community, so that everyone can get the full play experience on a casual level, while drastically lowering the cost of entry. For the digital play experience, they do cater to this. You can play Altered on BGA with your personal collection, so even if you live in a remote area, you can find opponents whenever you want. However, this absolutely does not mean they don't care if LGS host and carry Altered. They are very adamant about this and encourage local play with casual OP seasons (same as SWU) at supporting stores. , so there is no cutting out local game stores, at best a reduced dependency on the store in your area if you don't care about in-person play and local events, because you can buy card rights online and play online. However, I think the vast majority will share the sentiment that coming together to play in person is an unbeatable experience, which would conveniently be supporting your LGS too.
Lorcana and SW Unlimited are TCGs boiled down to their most basic elements, and mundane for it. Altered has something special. I don't think the art complements the idea of a race, but the win conditions and the manner in which units rotate off the board make this a unique game. It has something special. Lorcana and Unlimited don't really have anything special (beside their IPs).
Have you played star wars unlimited? The last thing Iâd call it is mundane. Sure lorcana you can say doesnât have anything special and is mundane but the back and forth action sequencing in swu is incredibly deep, more so than it is here.
@@LiterallyUnplayable I have played SWU. What separates it from other TCGs? The split battlefield and the Star Wars IP. That's about it. Maybe the epic actions? All the other major aspects can be found in other games. Color pie. Summoning sickness. Unique hero/villain abilities. Attack and hit points per unit. Instants. Knock the opponent to 0 HP. Ambush. Etc. Etc. It borrows more than it invents. I'm not saying it isn't deep, only that compared to other such games its mechanics are normal, average. Altered on the other hand is bringing something big and new, i.e. the win condition. There is no other game to compare it to, which after three decades and a couple hundred TCGs is saying something. Yes, Altered also has some non-unique elements (convert a card to a resource, units/spells/permanents, color pie/factions, etc., etc.), but overall it offers something which distinguishes itself further on the market than SWU. Please ask yourself, would SWU be as cool without the SW license? Imagine generic fantasy laid on top. Would the hype exist? Time will tell which game stands longer, maybe SWU, but given the dozens of TCGs coming out now, having such a unique edge means something. For the record, I have pre-ordered SWU. ;)
@@LiterallyUnplayable I think it still remains to be seen which is deeper in terms of action sequencing, at least until the full set of Altered is out. The demo decks don't do the game justice and are really only to get a feel for the game and theme. The main differences are the permanence of the Units/Characters, the lane specifics (Ground/Space vs equal) and the existence of the Reserve. The permanence in SWU makes the line more complex, as you can build high and gain extreme synergy. On the other hand, the card usage has to be monitored more closely in Altered as the card advantage hugely impacts your versatility throughout the game. The Reserve is what takes the cake for me, it has incredibly deep strategy application that is hard to understand in just a few games (and with demo decks). You can have decoys for sabotage, overt threats like a banish spell, self-discard abilities and combos that accrue value (i.e., putting a card in Reserve is a common mechanic to trade a card usage for something else, but fleeting keyword cards and permanents only have one use and are not accosted by this).
One thing to note is that this gameâs mechanics kind of naturally restrict how much a single card can over power the game. Since cards donât stick to the board like in traditional TCGs you only get to play the card a max of 2 times (assuming it doesnât get bounced or sabotaged). There will of course be power discrepancy in the Uniques but theyâre not insanely rare (1 per 8 packs like Mythics in MtG) so there will be very interesting mixes of what synergismâs weâll with your strategy and theyâre not so rare that every player wonât have access to their own uniques.
It's weird because the gameplay seems interesting and good, but the "was probably a blockchain scam but then they realized saying blockchain scares people away" vibe, the company controlled trade system, and the uniques all push me away. (The "Funded in 2 seconds!" stuff also just makes it sound like they had silent investors waiting to boost the kickstarter at launch)
It has nothing to do with blockchain. I still don't understand why people don't understand this and it has nothing to do with silent investors. It's a game and its a good one with an market built into the game to trade the rarest cards (Uniques). The Uniques mean that you won't have copy / paste decks out there as no two decks will be indentical in tournaments.
ââ@@gavkennyevery big kickstarter has staff ready to shell out to get it funded asap. The issue with this game is how much control of the market they are taking away from the LGS. Its great for players but cutting stores out so much is a horrible way to get them to stock your game. They are doing a lot of new and unique things that can be scary to old tcg heads. It is very easy to see *why* people are reluctant to support this. Good as the game is. Also no two decks being the same isnt a boon for competitve. No one wants to get luck sacked by one ofs that were designed by a program and cant be played around. Its a casual game where you dont ever need to buy cards from a store to play casually. Not the easiest sell.
There are over 6k backers only 1 week into the campaign so it definitely does not feel like a silent investor scam. Itâs a truly non confrontational game with really cool art and very fun gameplay made by game designers with a long history of success (time stories, seasons, dice forge, dixit etc) The print on demand potentially offers the most player friendly TCG thatâs been produced. The unique cards are cool but not meta shifting. Youâre limited to only 3 per deck and theyâre algorithm generated so theyâre more variant than game breaking powerful.
They passed $2M and still growing. I adore this game and hope game stores support it and I get a local community for this.
Coming from a low level competitive MtG player I played the game on BGA a ton and it felt much deeper on a competitive level than I expected. There is a lot of strategy to choosing what to play and when, holding information and bluffing, setting up your reserve correctly, and reading your opponent at the same time. As for unique cards, if I am not wrong about deck building, one copy of a card is allowed in your deck per copy you own, so you cant just print your busted unique and jam 3 of them. Even if that is not correct and you can have 3 copies of a unique, only one person is going to be able to play it which while not ideal, definitely feels better than everyone playing a playset of Siege Rhino. (...what I'd give for those days tho. I âĨ Siege Rhino.)
You can print 3 of those uniques to use in deck for casual play. In order to use a legal deck in tournaments you will need to own (in our example) 3 separate digital copies of the unique card.
@@robertcrist6059 That will come down to your casual playgroup then. I would just play by the rules of deckbuilding for the competitive scene personally.
I wouldn't go as far as make multiple for the same deck but more power to you. I would just PoD the other two through ones my friends own that happen to fit so the deck is still legal for games but not tournament legal.
@@robertcrist6059 Which is impossible since they're all Unique :0
You gotta have different Uniques, they can be the same Character family but not the same card.
Going second is actually better in this game...which is really weird but a nice change
i played 10 or so games of this at one of their roadshow events and came away thinking, "yeah, i'll back this for the starters and probably a box". i think it could be a fun game to have around to play with my less card-gamey friends, but i just don't see it having what it needs to catch on in game stores the way it really needs to for me to want to put any real money into it. a lot of cool ideas! i hope they end up doing something neat with it (and that they find a better solution for the QR codes in the long run)
Theyâve said they are going to look at a more art style QR solution but right now they want the cards to be scannable very quickly in mass and the art-style ones are not as performant as the basic QR box. Definitely agreed itâs jarring but after playing a bunch over the last few months your brain starts to ignore it. The full arts are soo cool though so itâs definitely meh to have that box on there. What they pick up having it seems worth it tho (ie quick importing, automated deck checks that allow your account to save your Op stats around cards played with and against, automatically lore and FAQ access by card, automatic language translation when playing against cards not in your language; to name a few)
It's mechanically on the same level as SWU, the only thing it lacks is an established IP (which is getting fleshed out in incredible detail and quality for a newly created world build). I do agree that it does a lot of things differently in terms of card rarity, scarcity and the balance between players, collectors and investors. It makes it hard to put real money into it, but I'd rather put my money into a game where I can get all the cards for a reasonable price and not have to shell out 100+ bucks just to own a Vader and get a competitive deck. They made a system where card rights maintain value, without raising the cost of entry to new players who showed up late, allowing for bigger communities, less elitism, etc.
to be fair, the designer is coming from board game design. The only thing I'm really worried about is how retail stores are going to be affected by the print on demand system, but I get the feeling we won't know until it releases.
Also, some people really need to look up what an NFT is, cause I've seen multiple people say 'NFT without the blockchain!' as if that makes sense...
Yeah itâs more that theyâre trying to do some of the things that Iâve seen nft/blockchain projects do, but in a completely centralized way so you have to trust that their database is accurate, up to date, wonât go down, etc -Mike
@literallyunplayable I mean it literally is an NFT without cryptoâĶ
And if their website goes down or if they go out of business what does every player and collector do? Theyâre just hijacking the secondary market
@@LiterallyUnplayable for sure. I guess its just a bit weird seeing people worried when having digital ids seems to remove the artificial scarcity of anything but the unique cards, which is pretty friendly for casual players. Plus I wouldn't have to triple sleeve my favourite cards :)
â@LiterallyUnplayable not to be a Debbie downer, but tbh in today's world, this game is just a giant cyber crime waiting to happen. I love the concept of getting cards from the provider. But making 1-of cards that you have to basically QR scan to an account is just like asking for hackers to just profit off the scarcity of these cards to just profit. Since the owner can supposedly "trade/sell" those cards to people on their database. Then there is how secure the database, servers, physical location of the data storage is, etc to be concerned about and honestly I would not trust a group with a kickstarter to have the cybersecurity team on hand to handle it. They cost a ton. These are real world issues with their visions making this game.
I'd love for them to restructure it, but i cannot in good conscience recommend investing in support for this game or buying it on release, unless you have absolutely no intention of using the online profile that will be needed to scan the card.
@@TheCheff93 Bro you're so misinformed. The system works the same way items and equipment in an RPG would. Is every online game with an inventory you've ever played an NFT without crypto??? You have an item code stored in a central server. Their website is maintained around the clock like any proper company, and if they go out of business then you're just back to the same starting line with other TCGs: the physical cards. Hijacking the secondary market is the only sensible thing you've said. Yes, they do have a monopoly there, but the commission is lower than TCGPlayer for example, and it eliminates any need for shipping. Cards get automatically translated so every card in the world is part of the purchase pool, and there's no chance of scamming, counterfeiting, lost packages etc. I'd take this any day over physical secondary markets.
I will say that certain game stores are hosting demo/roadshow events for Altered, which does give me hope that there will actually be support for this game, because it seems interesting at the very least.
Great to see yâall cover and chat opinions! Would love to see you play through the other starter decks!!
I saw this, and was hoping you guys would cover it!
I do agree about the QR codes. My eye is drawn to them first. I have played a few games as well with different factions than y'all played here and found it pretty fun.
Great opinions regarding the digital market system and QR codes stuff. There are two things I want to respond with.
With my experiences with MTG that aren't as well attached to TCG biases, I wouldn't trust the secondary market with the trading as much as they devs from what I have seen. I don't want this game to get really dummy expensive due to the pumping of endogenous values into players through limited physical stock. I would rather just share the game with as many people as I want so that anyone can play the game.
To help you understand the QR code, it is so distinct because it would be hard for a cheap phone to read while also storing lots of data in a small space. If the code were to be stylized to fit, the code would have to be bigger and have less data storage per cm. Even then the phones might have a harder time reading a card because of the styled code being so detailed for humans. They couldn't afford to make it hard to read because of it being a universal translator as well. Scanning the code will put up a card's oracle text in any language you want as well as bonus info like lore and such making computer readability a high priority. They might figure out how to add fonts but as it is, QR codes are the better pick.
If anything, the online marketplace should make it cheaper! There is no endogenous value different from a digital market place like TCGPlayer. Every card is auto translated, so every scanned card in existence can be traded, making the pricing very competitive. The physical scarcity is not only based on print size (which they are increasing just like SWU!), but also legal proxies printable on demand (max 1 euro per card, maybe less in bulk purchase). Lastly, the only scarce card rarity is Unique, which you only need 3 of per deck. Compared to SWU, this makes it way easier to put together a competitive deck without having to shell out dozens of euros/dollars per card. I plan on Printing proxies of my Uniques and sharing them with my community, so everyone can play with them casually. All this put together can make this the most affordable and easily shared TCG on a casual level that I've seen.
Hype for this game, Is something new and original from lorcana and star wars
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Totally! While similar in resource and lane system to SWU, it is more chess-like and definitely breaks away from the FAB/MTG clone structure of base health and dudes killing each other :)
From what I've read on BGG and the KS page updates, you can print any single card "into the ground" but some caveats:
If playing casual play, you donât have to worry about anything besides deck construction parameters
If playing in a tournament, you must own each card and by owning you must have a digital copy of each card. So having one digital copy (and thus one physical) of the Giant, but printing two more copies does not mean you own three copies, and therefore cannot use the two other printed Giantâs in a tournament. Should also go without stating, but if at one point you did own three digital & physical copies of Giant, but then sold the digital rights to the cards, but kept the physical versions, you no longer own the card and cannot use the physical cards in tournament play. Judges will be scanning decks and checking your library for ownership
If you get a Unique card, you can print on demand 1 copy per year. An automatic timer will start when you print a copy blocking you from trying to print another copy until the year timer is up.
Interesting for sure, Iâm just a little wary of how all that will work in practice. -Mike
Mostly correct, with some small tweaks/updates: Uniques can also be printed indefinitely, only alt arts and promos have the internal timer to ensure scarcity and maintained value over time. Here, the PoD serves as a service for replacing damaged, lost or stolen cards, as well as printing physical copies of the cards you bought on the marketplace. "Printing into the ground" is a weird way to put it. With less than a euro per card, this makes it worthwhile to print foils, alt arts, some popular rares and Uniques. For the rest, the math leans to just buying packs, as you also get digital rights from them. I'll maybe print a hundred cards to fill out a playset, and then buy missing rights for cards I want to run competitively. If everybody is using PoD, then digital rights will increase in price due to scarcity, and people will go out to buy more packs. It's a wait and see where the equilibrium is gonna fall. It's such a novel mechanism that it is hard to predict, but the team is aware and conscious of potential pitfalls and hurdles that come with the territory.
Iâve backed this at the lowest level to get the KS rewards. The gameplay intrigues me as it departs from the traditional tcg. While I donât like the idea of the print on demand aspect, the QR codes, or the fact that it removes the physical store from the equation; it is niche enough to have a play at home copy for âboard game nights.â
And since this is the first time Iâve stumbled on your channel, Iâm going to see if youâve already explored other KS TCGs that have piqued my interest (and if you havenât maybe itâll serve as possible material for future videos) - Paragon Monsters and Mayhem, X-Seekers of Fortune, Neverrift, Age of Eon, and Six Forms.
Weâll check those out! Thanks for watching ð
It is absolutely not a "fact" that it removes the physical store from the equation. Please educate yourself before spreading misinformation ;_;
@@Chamos_games That statement, although probably not articulated as clearly as I had intended, was based on a discussion with the owner of my LGS who felt that the print on demand removed physical stores from the secondary market, basically limiting the buying/trading of cards to online markets under direct control of Altered or its manufacturing partners. If this isnât the case, great. Regardless, I donât feel that expressing an opinion is spreading false information.
@@Bryan-le3jw Um, you started your phrase with "based on the fact that", which is not exactly formulated as an opinion. But yes I'm sorry, I came off strong due to the accusation.
The secondary market for Altered will largely consist of the marketplace operated by Equinox, to trade card rights for scanned cards. In some cases, as I've explained in other comments here, they are then feasibly printed on demand. However, not all cards are worth PoD as they will likely charge above 50ÂĒ per card, or need bulk orders to make it economically viable. People will still need to open boosters or trade physically, to get the card they're looking for.
A store could even use PoD from within their community to create an entirely new form of secondary market: printing Uniques from local collections (with permission ofc) to sell as non-competitive, high-end cards for people to spice up their decks with. They would be discounted without the digital rights, but the majority of players would love to pick up more Uniques, from different card pools we've never seen before. Additionally, The alt arts and promos can only be printed once a year, so they will still maintain physical value after PoD, and can be sold in the traditional singles style.
To be fair, I understand the concerns from LGSs. I had a similar conversation with my LGS owner about how the Kickstarter circumvented LGS distribution, and they're right. This was a dilemma for the team, as they wanted to both cooperate strongly and passionately with LGSs, but also reward the hatching community for supporting them through the years-long development. They used KS as a one-time event for this, and will only sell product through LGS/conventions in the future. They even formulated an OP roadmap for weekly casual tournaments at LGSs, with free prizes, both physical and digital, to encourage local, physical play.
The PoD and marketplace does shake up the secondary market and will be novel and different. But that doesn't mean that they intend to alienate LGSs with this. They are services that are tailored for the unique state the game is in. I totally get why this could be a dealbreaker for your LGS, but saying things like "removing LGS from the equation" is misrepresenting the game in a hurtful way.
I'm with Jay on this, too many other great games I'm trying to get into and play more of, and support- FaB, SWU, Sorcery and still some Lorcana. Not to mention a few older games I would love to catch back up on- Marvel Champions, Legendary, and LOTR LCG (still my favorite solo card game). My wallet is already screaming no way lol
If you're not bothered about foils, alt arts and the slight edge Uniques give, then you can get really affordable decks of Commons and Rares due to their abundance and Print on Demand proxies. I'd wager it'd be cheaper than any good TCG currently out there :)
Great video guys. Iâm not drawn into this one. It seems ok but a little dull. I think Iâd take Balloon cup or lost Cities for a do you have more or less numbers than me game over this. I feel like it will have a small following but overall will be a flash in the pan.
Fair enough, but it sounds like you took a passing glance at best. I'd say that Altered is at least as exciting and difficult as SWU. It is even more mindgamey and chess-like due to the impermanence of the characters, with a more complex card system thanks to the Reserve and equal lanes. "The more or less numbers" is a gross oversimplification though, as you could apply this to most TCGs on the market, whether they are hit points, damage or base health. It's all math in the end.
I also have the same issues with the game as you guys. I'm not ok with the idea of NFTs, and the game operating like that really bothers me. The QR codes make the front face much less attractive, but I can see it's utility.
I asked my flgs on our discord who has been watching the KS and if the shop would consider doing a retail pledge, but one person responded and they were meh on the game (central ownership, selling fees, and printing fees), and the store owner said the same thing ya'll did, since the product is sold on KS, how does he make money for his shop, so he was out. This game seems to want to do so many things differently (in house) and it does seem to be ailenating wide swaths of people from the start. It will be very interesting two years from now if anyone will be playing this competitivly or if other content will come out, or if their print/selling systems are working.
Yeah game is cool for sure, but weâre a bit skeptical about all the other stuff
The KS was a one-time thing to reward the community for supporting them through development. I agree that the alpha set circumvented the LGSs (they could do a retail pledge at 25% discount, which I understand is not a great margin for an LGS to take on a novel TCG), and has somewhat saturated initial demand. However, the game is growing exponentially and will only be sold through LGS in the future. If by "selling fees", you mean the marketplace commission, it should be around 5%? At least at the lower end compared to other platforms like TCGPlayer, which comes with the added benefits that you don't have to ship anything, worry about delivery time, counterfeits or being scammed. For personal/private sales you could opt not to scan the cards and ship them physicallyThe PoD fees are max 1 euro per card for now, likely cheaper when purchased in bulk. This makes it feasible for foils, alt arts, rare or Unique cards and for replacing damaged/lost/stolen cards. They are planning at least 6 sets from what I've heard, and I'm confident it will surpass that.
yooo... is that a nische ink painting behind mike?? SO SIICK!
also dope explanation of the game, ty
It is!
I think you came in wanting to not like it... you say you don't understand such and such decision, but clearly didn't do any research to try to understand the game, its design principles and its objectives... I'm super hyped and can't wait to deckbuild (the rarity restrictions forcing you to make choices with faction commons-rares and OOF rares are super interesting) and play with real decks (these demo decks are meant to be basic)... here's to hoping you give it a real shot when it comes out!
Iâm not sure if you made it through the whole video but we both enjoyed it overall
Hi, thanks for the explanations! A question: If I wanted to take multiple products in a single order, do you know what I should do? Because it makes me select only 1 item at a time with the relative shipping. I would like to get both the master pack and the expert pack, is it normal that I can't buy them at the same time? how can i select the starter after i buy it? Thanks so much for the replies, great! ;D
So sorry, Iâm not sure the answer to those questions wish we could help more. Thanks for watching!
As with other KS projects I believe you back one of the main options then add any number of optional buys . Some KS projects will have optional buys that mirror the main ones to allow quantity increases but I donât think this one does. I suppose you could set up a second account or have a friend do the other one?
It's kinda funny how similar it is to SWU. They both obviously have different vibes and i think this game will be much more casual. But very similar.
Definitely some interesting convergent design there
The complexity/skill ceiling is pretty comparative. There may be more luck dependency without the Mulligan, sideboard and the tight difference between winning and losing (could be just 1 stat in 1 biome!), which can turn away competitive players that demand extreme consistency in their decks. However, the devs stated that they always encourage players to find their own playstyle. Maybe we'll see different, highly competitive formats emerge in the future :)
I love the game. It is really fun
altered smashed 4 mil on kickstarter now, nearly 5 mil
Pretty crazy! Good for them!
I've been feeling really mixed on this game. On one hand, the gameplay seems interesting, and the emphasis on unique, expressive cards and mechanics is refreshing in the current TCG space. On the other hand, considering how Lorcana struggled to take off in my area despite their LGS-forward approach, how the heck would this direct-to-consumer, print-on-demand game ever get popular with game stores?
The app functionality seems perfect for a digital play experience; I feel like some sort of hybrid digital/physical model is inevitably in their plans. That way, they don't care if game stores are hosting their game or not - enough people would be playing online and at larger events to keep the game alive. I could definitely see that working, but that's not what they're selling the game as right now. I'm guessing that's because a lot of TCG veterans wouldn't be happy with them cutting out local game stores, and they need those dedicated players to be invested in the early stages. Of course, that's just speculation.
I could definitely see that! They already have the ability to scan individual cards into your collection with the QR codes, might as well go a step further and let you use those cards that you own physically in a digital client -Mike
I can agree with the gameplay being neat. But I'm personally not investing because of the real world problems this game gives incentive to. I can only recommend you be careful if you do invest in it because it is a cyber crime waiting to happen. I honestly hope they realize they can't afford the digital protection requirements in the cybersecurity world and restructure the scan system because honestly I don't believe they will be able to long term afford a SOC to keep players digital ownership of cards safe, let alone player data.
@@manwithnoname9580 Yeah, security is definitely a concern. The website Q&A didn't go into much specifics, but they do state they are following "best industry practices". I think they are more than aware that security issues could destroy their reputation, at least. I'm sure they can already imagine the major PR fallout of even a single person losing their expensive collection to a scam... and that could still happen even if they DO maintain good cybersecurity practices with their current approach.
That said, this is a company with seemingly little to no experience handling this kind of data, and we've seen very preventable data breaches happen even with companies that ought to know better... so yeah, probably just a matter of time before something bad happens; the unknown is more in the severity of it and how they manage the aftermath.
@@manwithnoname9580 I think you're skewing the math here a bit. On one hand, the cards are structured in a way that there will likely not be a black lotus level card that would entice cyber crime, and on the other hand they are a multi million dollar company. Assuming they can't afford a Security Operations Center is kinda wild. They have four models of income with sales of boosters, merch, printing costs and marketplace commissions. As long as people keep playing the game it should remain feasible. If it dies, then the digital ownership becomes worthless as there is no OP anymore...
The direct-to-consumer aspect is isolated in a one-time Kickstarter launch to reward the community that supported them through development (which could also be backed by retailers, with a 25% retail discount and 10% down payment). The first set will still be sold by LGS and any product (except maybe merch) will be sold by LGS and during events like GenCon (not this one but the next). The PoD does not replace boosters in any way and will only be economically viable for foils, alt arts and the highest rarity of cards. This would mean that people owning an expensive card (like an Altered's "Vader") can print cheap, factory quality proxies to give/trade with their community, so that everyone can get the full play experience on a casual level, while drastically lowering the cost of entry.
For the digital play experience, they do cater to this. You can play Altered on BGA with your personal collection, so even if you live in a remote area, you can find opponents whenever you want. However, this absolutely does not mean they don't care if LGS host and carry Altered. They are very adamant about this and encourage local play with casual OP seasons (same as SWU) at supporting stores. , so there is no cutting out local game stores, at best a reduced dependency on the store in your area if you don't care about in-person play and local events, because you can buy card rights online and play online. However, I think the vast majority will share the sentiment that coming together to play in person is an unbeatable experience, which would conveniently be supporting your LGS too.
Altered french creation âĪ
I think the record for a TCG is 3.5 mil USD.
Lorcana and SW Unlimited are TCGs boiled down to their most basic elements, and mundane for it. Altered has something special. I don't think the art complements the idea of a race, but the win conditions and the manner in which units rotate off the board make this a unique game. It has something special. Lorcana and Unlimited don't really have anything special (beside their IPs).
Have you played star wars unlimited? The last thing Iâd call it is mundane. Sure lorcana you can say doesnât have anything special and is mundane but the back and forth action sequencing in swu is incredibly deep, more so than it is here.
@@LiterallyUnplayable I have played SWU. What separates it from other TCGs? The split battlefield and the Star Wars IP. That's about it. Maybe the epic actions? All the other major aspects can be found in other games. Color pie. Summoning sickness. Unique hero/villain abilities. Attack and hit points per unit. Instants. Knock the opponent to 0 HP. Ambush. Etc. Etc. It borrows more than it invents. I'm not saying it isn't deep, only that compared to other such games its mechanics are normal, average. Altered on the other hand is bringing something big and new, i.e. the win condition. There is no other game to compare it to, which after three decades and a couple hundred TCGs is saying something. Yes, Altered also has some non-unique elements (convert a card to a resource, units/spells/permanents, color pie/factions, etc., etc.), but overall it offers something which distinguishes itself further on the market than SWU. Please ask yourself, would SWU be as cool without the SW license? Imagine generic fantasy laid on top. Would the hype exist? Time will tell which game stands longer, maybe SWU, but given the dozens of TCGs coming out now, having such a unique edge means something. For the record, I have pre-ordered SWU. ;)
@@LiterallyUnplayable I think it still remains to be seen which is deeper in terms of action sequencing, at least until the full set of Altered is out. The demo decks don't do the game justice and are really only to get a feel for the game and theme. The main differences are the permanence of the Units/Characters, the lane specifics (Ground/Space vs equal) and the existence of the Reserve. The permanence in SWU makes the line more complex, as you can build high and gain extreme synergy. On the other hand, the card usage has to be monitored more closely in Altered as the card advantage hugely impacts your versatility throughout the game. The Reserve is what takes the cake for me, it has incredibly deep strategy application that is hard to understand in just a few games (and with demo decks). You can have decoys for sabotage, overt threats like a banish spell, self-discard abilities and combos that accrue value (i.e., putting a card in Reserve is a common mechanic to trade a card usage for something else, but fleeting keyword cards and permanents only have one use and are not accosted by this).
I agree with all your points! If only it would remain just a board game :/
what? you open cards other people don't have?
Yeah you have a chance at pulling mechanically unique versions of cards in the set, and then youâre allowed to put up to 3 unique cards in your deck
One thing to note is that this gameâs mechanics kind of naturally restrict how much a single card can over power the game. Since cards donât stick to the board like in traditional TCGs you only get to play the card a max of 2 times (assuming it doesnât get bounced or sabotaged). There will of course be power discrepancy in the Uniques but theyâre not insanely rare (1 per 8 packs like Mythics in MtG) so there will be very interesting mixes of what synergismâs weâll with your strategy and theyâre not so rare that every player wonât have access to their own uniques.
@LiterallyUnplayable I own an LGS and this intrigues me. I'm considering backing the project
@@Maltross78 They have special pledge for stores but you have to contact them directly and contrary to player pledges you pay only a part upfront
It's weird because the gameplay seems interesting and good, but the "was probably a blockchain scam but then they realized saying blockchain scares people away" vibe, the company controlled trade system, and the uniques all push me away. (The "Funded in 2 seconds!" stuff also just makes it sound like they had silent investors waiting to boost the kickstarter at launch)
It has nothing to do with blockchain. I still don't understand why people don't understand this and it has nothing to do with silent investors. It's a game and its a good one with an market built into the game to trade the rarest cards (Uniques). The Uniques mean that you won't have copy / paste decks out there as no two decks will be indentical in tournaments.
ââ@@gavkennyevery big kickstarter has staff ready to shell out to get it funded asap. The issue with this game is how much control of the market they are taking away from the LGS. Its great for players but cutting stores out so much is a horrible way to get them to stock your game. They are doing a lot of new and unique things that can be scary to old tcg heads. It is very easy to see *why* people are reluctant to support this. Good as the game is. Also no two decks being the same isnt a boon for competitve. No one wants to get luck sacked by one ofs that were designed by a program and cant be played around. Its a casual game where you dont ever need to buy cards from a store to play casually. Not the easiest sell.
They obviously started developing this during the crypto boom haha, these things take years to get off the ground
@@TheCheff93 the crypto boom wasnt 3 years ago. Point fingers at grand archive. They were literally going to put nfts in packs lol
There are over 6k backers only 1 week into the campaign so it definitely does not feel like a silent investor scam. Itâs a truly non confrontational game with really cool art and very fun gameplay made by game designers with a long history of success (time stories, seasons, dice forge, dixit etc)
The print on demand potentially offers the most player friendly TCG thatâs been produced. The unique cards are cool but not meta shifting. Youâre limited to only 3 per deck and theyâre algorithm generated so theyâre more variant than game breaking powerful.