Tsoding writes in C, but doesn't regard performance highly. Tsoding is an immensely experienced Haskell programmer, but doesn't like complicated abstractions) This person is enigma
IDK how to gauge this guy on what he actually thinks about modern programming languages. Like, for example, he's okay with Rust, but not Cargo and the Rust ecosystem at large, and would rather use rustc and Makefiles to build Rust. Maybe he's not heard of Go, but I'd imagine he probably dislikes the abstractions the language has, maybe even more so than in Rust or Haskell, or maybe programming in Go is just not as fun compared to C.
Finding this channel has made programming fun for me again. The bit at ~56:00 is such a good example of persistence and learned intuition paying off. I spent all of my uni days and and early career believing that the source code of languages and production grade tools were the domain of strange people with beards and tall pointy hats who lived in the basements of places like MIT. My early instructors and mentors simply failed to indicate to me that if I wanted to know more about a thing I could read its source and even build one. Its very motivational and just a lot of fun to watch this person dive in to all these different things, learning a lot, pushing through frustration, and most importantly, have a great time. I am grateful that he chooses to share it with all of us.
Learning how a library works by grepping around and reading the source code is a really useful skill -- I started a new job about a month ago and I've been basically learning how to use their primary library through a combination of grepping around, using breakpoints to see whats happening, and reading docstrings, and primarily the former. It's so good!
I totally sympathise. Work sucks. I can only tolerate it if it is a programming project that fascinates me and actually has some useful purpose in the world. My current solution to this problem is to work with a few friends on a start up company doing things we have a passion for. The money sucks but at least we are not shackled to drudgery. Life is short, the is no time to waste working on meaningless tasks to make money for someone else
Agree, i was fascinated with electronics my whole life and I always worked unrelated jobs, I always hated it. Having Aspergers makes it even harder to work jobs with no passion around people who dont hide the fact that they dont like me because im an exentric nerd
@@spacewad8745 No, no, more power to you. I know what is to be in that kind of situation. Wishing you manage to find work that is satisfying and fulfilling as well as essential for you.
@@OneMilian That is a shame. So many places I have worked where people had passion for what they were doing and eccentric nerds were almost a majority. A lot of fun. It does so depress me though to work with people who have no passion for what they are doing, don't care what it does or what it is for. Just doing the hours and taking the salary with no pride or joy.
"make money for someone else" implies being a business owner is easy (after all, other people make money for you), but before that phrase you said money sucks when working in your own company, How so?
19:30 I would absolutely watch that! That's along the lines of how I am trying to approach learning programming and it has been helpful. I have at least hit a point now where I can write relatively competently in multiple languages and can understand what's going on in many others. You're definitely right; once you begin to understand programming, you can learn any language. It's all just syntax and built-in features.
I thoroughly enjoyed messing with hare, it's a shame that I can't use it for anything serious. It's such a fun little language! I wrote a small text editor using it.
Not really, that would mean it would never become mainstream and gain attraction. Windows used by a lot of people and corporations, supporting it would put this language ahead of tons other new programming languages.
I would 100% watch that course. I might even pay something reasonable, but I'm not rly one to pay unless it provides something better than reading docs, youtube, and creating problem/solution projects from scratch. Your content is already extremely helpful for the overall programming mindset. I'm finally able to see a language for the first time and understand what's going on, and your thought patterns over multiple languages/projects has been essential. Thank you!
Interesting take on abstractions. My dad has been a dev/architect for 30 years, and as I'm learning he has explained the importance of understanding first principles. Even though he's never written a word of Python, I explained how I was going to use a threading abstraction in my app and simply based on how he understands threading he explained how it wouldn't work and ended up being right! So the prediction of those that can do this being more important in the future is very interesting.
i think the reason why many people care about the language is because the abstractions made in languages. for example the abstractions made in the java ee environment are quite different from the abstractions made in c++. So if you litterally want to make money with programming you have to know the abstractions of an "trend" language and not just the idea behind programming. people need to eat, so they need to make money, they apply to a company, the company uses a specific language, the people need to learn the abstractions, the people learned a language.
It's pleasure to watch another interesting topic and get motivated for doing something cool just for fun. While people like you exists in this world i have a hope that all is not lost for us. I wish one day i will be free from this big companies bullshit and would enjoy my portion of the recreational programming. Thank you, mista Zozin, as always ❤️
I coudn't find any info about the general programming language. It would be awesome if you could make a course about programming in the general programming language
Thank you very much for this video. I tried it just to know. The installation was flawless and as easy as I like it. It was blazingly fast and I like that very much.
You "financial management" is exactly my thinking. I feel like an alien in my country. That is how someone lives who authentically works to live and not live to work. Thx for making me feel a little bit less like an alien.
If you enjoy trying out new programming languages, I would like to suggest checking out the Sidef programming language. :) Disclaimer: I'm the author of the language.
18:00 yes! I always wondered about this. Started learning whatever programming languages I found interesting when I was a kid with a C64 and Atari ST, not thinking it was any kind of "career investment". The questions and tier lists of "what language to learn / ignore in 20XX" are really weird, like if musicians were posting videos like "DON'T learn piano in 2024... learn THIS instrument to stay relevant"
I would pay for a 'General Programming' course from you. I'm not a noob but, I suck at picking where to draw abstraction boundaries. I guess you'd call it architecture. I'm always amazed at how you take an idea, and get a prototype working so quickly.
wait, but right a the end you rated the language with 8/10 👀 please prediction model-san 🙏 give a rate to more languages that can run raylib so that we can finally have a proper programming language tier list
I will totally watch the course on programming in general. I assume you will talk more about memory, process, constructs rather than features of programming language. But I do understand, spending months on a course and then getting 500 people like me buy it is not a great roi.
hello Tsoding , (@40:35) you have also the language Odin ( C like ) that come out of the box with binding for popular lib like raylib. Wich is perfect for rapid prototyping and to rapidly setup on any computer (linux,windows , mac )
@@varshneydevansh except that knuth books are dry and hard to approach and would better used as references instead of reading them cover to cover, unlike tsoding streams which is fun to watch, informative and has engaging style.
Tsoding, Please would you mind doing a video on your desktop/window manager setup? I really love your low profile and "all from emacs" text only workflow. Very impressive, it helps people like me who needs to constantly fight against the distributions endless irritating UI innovations.
hey tsoding, out of the modern c like languages (zig, odin, nim, etc...) which one has been the best for you? you've coded a lot, but what has felt a lot more intuitive for you in sense of applying core programming concepts rather than syntax memorization?
as a xoogler i'm delighted to here that they are investing in simpler systems. also they just fired over half their workforce, you dont want to work there.
So the issue you had at around 35:00 with the hare folder was that the executable is named after the parent folder, so creating a `hello` folder would have triggered the error.
You really think people are not going to be interested in your "general programing" courses? Well i can speak for myself, that i would CONSUME that stuff, especially knowing that course is from zozin. Call me stupid, I'd pay for that, even if it would be mostly stuff i know If you're going to do it, do it for minority.
It's difficult to think about programming without binding to a programming language, but maybe it's because I only knew C well and never got deep into other languages. Would thinking about data and operation on such data a good starting point?
TFW DeVault asks for an annotation tool with a WYSIWYG PDF editor and is willing to pay $1000 (only if real time collab/cloud sync is included) for something covered in "How I draw figures for my mathematical lecture notes using Inkscape"
First you stick with a language, any language. After you have the tool to do actual programming, you will realise the language is just a path to your goal and there are many other paths to choose from. I think everyone learns like this. A general programming course is useful, but it is not as useful as actually doing programming.
llvm is bloated and object oriented HOWEVER I like my system being as fast as possible, 30% does make a huge difference in many cases and the only python tool I use consistently is emerge which it being written in python does make the user experience actively worse qbe looks kinda cool tho ngl
Today I leared that siemens is looking for A windows 3.1 programmer because of the debugger for german ICE 1 and 2 trains. So its not really the languages but you can really lock people/ companies in with tooling IDE's and development environments. And than you make ze moniez
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
Tsoding writes in C, but doesn't regard performance highly. Tsoding is an immensely experienced Haskell programmer, but doesn't like complicated abstractions)
This person is enigma
He loves simple languages like hare but he complains the standard libraries don't handle window management
I can't speak for him but I think he values C for its simplicity more than its performance.
@@denoww9261 I think he did say that once, on a Rust stream, can't remember which one though, I think he was printing trees
Do not mistake complicated by unnecessary abstractions.
The only code that never fails is the one you never write.
IDK how to gauge this guy on what he actually thinks about modern programming languages.
Like, for example, he's okay with Rust, but not Cargo and the Rust ecosystem at large, and would rather use rustc and Makefiles to build Rust. Maybe he's not heard of Go, but I'd imagine he probably dislikes the abstractions the language has, maybe even more so than in Rust or Haskell, or maybe programming in Go is just not as fun compared to C.
I'm gonna add watching this video to my CV for that google interview in 5 years
How to crack FAANG one step closer
tsoding is coding in hair so that he doesnt go bald again
spilt my capatea on tshirt
Wild
He won't as long as he does not code in haskell
:|
Dayum bro
Honestly, "C with namespaces" is already a great selling point.
So did "C with classes," and look where that's ended up
@@Maagiicc Have you seen GObject from glib? That shit be wild.
@@Maagiicc that wasn't the only thing that made c++ so bad, and the rest aren't present in the development of hare
C with raii, generics and namespaces would be bussin
Namespaces are actually BAD
Finding this channel has made programming fun for me again. The bit at ~56:00 is such a good example of persistence and learned intuition paying off. I spent all of my uni days and and early career believing that the source code of languages and production grade tools were the domain of strange people with beards and tall pointy hats who lived in the basements of places like MIT. My early instructors and mentors simply failed to indicate to me that if I wanted to know more about a thing I could read its source and even build one. Its very motivational and just a lot of fun to watch this person dive in to all these different things, learning a lot, pushing through frustration, and most importantly, have a great time. I am grateful that he chooses to share it with all of us.
Learning how a library works by grepping around and reading the source code is a really useful skill -- I started a new job about a month ago and I've been basically learning how to use their primary library through a combination of grepping around, using breakpoints to see whats happening, and reading docstrings, and primarily the former. It's so good!
Once you can learn like this you are free to explore where you want.
I totally sympathise. Work sucks. I can only tolerate it if it is a programming project that fascinates me and actually has some useful purpose in the world. My current solution to this problem is to work with a few friends on a start up company doing things we have a passion for. The money sucks but at least we are not shackled to drudgery. Life is short, the is no time to waste working on meaningless tasks to make money for someone else
Agree, i was fascinated with electronics my whole life and I always worked unrelated jobs, I always hated it. Having Aspergers makes it even harder to work jobs with no passion around people who dont hide the fact that they dont like me because im an exentric nerd
More power to you 💪
But with sick parents to look after in a country with no public healthcare, i am willing to sell my soul if the pay is well
@@spacewad8745 No, no, more power to you. I know what is to be in that kind of situation. Wishing you manage to find work that is satisfying and fulfilling as well as essential for you.
@@OneMilian That is a shame. So many places I have worked where people had passion for what they were doing and eccentric nerds were almost a majority. A lot of fun.
It does so depress me though to work with people who have no passion for what they are doing, don't care what it does or what it is for. Just doing the hours and taking the salary with no pride or joy.
"make money for someone else" implies being a business owner is easy (after all, other people make money for you), but before that phrase you said money sucks when working in your own company, How so?
CONGRATULATIONS ON 100,000 SUBSCRIBERS!!!!!! GOOD JOB! YOU ARE GOAT. BIG FACTS!!!!! Seriously appreciate your content.
You should try Odin too. Its literally in your name!
And it gives Raylib bindings directly with it, So no need to figure out how to link C stuff right away, Also it has Jai like syntax.
The hare devs really missed out on an opportunity with the file extension. I mean it could have been *.bun ...
19:30 I would absolutely watch that! That's along the lines of how I am trying to approach learning programming and it has been helpful. I have at least hit a point now where I can write relatively competently in multiple languages and can understand what's going on in many others. You're definitely right; once you begin to understand programming, you can learn any language. It's all just syntax and built-in features.
Tsoding, I'm voting for Odin lang! Try it please.
I second this!
Hahaha, this is exactly what he was yelling about. The language doesn't matter; the same concepts apply across languages.
I would 100% buy the general programing course
Especially if it's done in Tsoding way. Give it a try, please.
"the role of optimizing compilers in the majority of applications is kinda overrated"
well said, loving it.
I thoroughly enjoyed messing with hare, it's a shame that I can't use it for anything serious. It's such a fun little language! I wrote a small text editor using it.
A text editor sounds pretty serious to me.
@@TsodingDaily It's only for writing jokes. Syntax highlighting for punchlines; that sort of thing.
@@TsodingDaily not if it only supports comic sans
the selling point of this language for me was the support on Windows: NO support and no plans for it
I guess that's a selling point if you're a free software purist
it's a selling point if you want to use a programming language that will never be widely adopted.
But it does not stop someone from forking/implementing the compiler for the language for Windows, yes?
@@flatrute yes, Case in point: there is a third party port to MacOS, a proprietary operating system.
Not really, that would mean it would never become mainstream and gain attraction. Windows used by a lot of people and corporations, supporting it would put this language ahead of tons other new programming languages.
I'm really glad you left your story about how you make money in the vod, it was really nice to hear that :)
I like its compiler being named Харек :)
@@remondrkferret. With intentional misspelling. So rather something like ferrit.
Хорёк 😂
I would 100% watch that course. I might even pay something reasonable, but I'm not rly one to pay unless it provides something better than reading docs, youtube, and creating problem/solution projects from scratch.
Your content is already extremely helpful for the overall programming mindset. I'm finally able to see a language for the first time and understand what's going on, and your thought patterns over multiple languages/projects has been essential.
Thank you!
Interesting take on abstractions. My dad has been a dev/architect for 30 years, and as I'm learning he has explained the importance of understanding first principles. Even though he's never written a word of Python, I explained how I was going to use a threading abstraction in my app and simply based on how he understands threading he explained how it wouldn't work and ended up being right! So the prediction of those that can do this being more important in the future is very interesting.
(During the first steps with QBE, meaning: compiling) "Can your LLVM do that? Your LLVM lies in shambles!", Tsoding 2024.
I love you for that!:)
i think the reason why many people care about the language is because the abstractions made in languages. for example the abstractions made in the java ee environment are quite different from the abstractions made in c++. So if you litterally want to make money with programming you have to know the abstractions of an "trend" language and not just the idea behind programming. people need to eat, so they need to make money, they apply to a company, the company uses a specific language, the people need to learn the abstractions, the people learned a language.
i swear to god if you made a course about programming in general, i could probably convince half of my entire university to watch it (please do it)
It's pleasure to watch another interesting topic and get motivated for doing something cool just for fun.
While people like you exists in this world i have a hope that all is not lost for us.
I wish one day i will be free from this big companies bullshit and would enjoy my portion of the recreational programming.
Thank you, mista Zozin, as always ❤️
You should definitely go for the General programming course. I mean I m interested.
I coudn't find any info about the general programming language. It would be awesome if you could make a course about programming in the general programming language
Until somebody creates a programming language called General
I hope this is a joke
We'll be watching your courses!
TLDW: language is okay, error reporting is horrendous.
wat
He liked the error reporting of '!' and '?'
@@StevenMartinGuitar I meant compiler errors, not semantics. ! and ? are very cool, I'm stealing this feature for my language!
@@ivanjermakov oh, yeah, that's true
I'll try out Hare when Drew Devault stops shilling it every single day on 4chan.
the first thing that came to my mind was did drew finally buy an AD got tsoding to do the shilling
actually factual at the time
Thank you very much for this video. I tried it just to know. The installation was flawless and as easy as I like it. It was blazingly fast and I like that very much.
You "financial management" is exactly my thinking. I feel like an alien in my country. That is how someone lives who authentically works to live and not live to work. Thx for making me feel a little bit less like an alien.
20:40 totally agree, I just dont care anymore on whatever salary i get in the job as long as i get the basic needs.
If you enjoy trying out new programming languages, I would like to suggest checking out the Sidef programming language. :)
Disclaimer: I'm the author of the language.
18:00 yes! I always wondered about this. Started learning whatever programming languages I found interesting when I was a kid with a C64 and Atari ST, not thinking it was any kind of "career investment". The questions and tier lists of "what language to learn / ignore in 20XX" are really weird, like if musicians were posting videos like "DON'T learn piano in 2024... learn THIS instrument to stay relevant"
I would pay for a 'General Programming' course from you. I'm not a noob but, I suck at picking where to draw abstraction boundaries. I guess you'd call it architecture. I'm always amazed at how you take an idea, and get a prototype working so quickly.
I love your content, I would watch If you create vods on general programming too.
Saying that it's useless because it will never be widely adopted is thinking of programming languages as cryptocurrencies. Tsoding was right.
i was just looking if someone did a video on this and 1 day ago you made one wow! what timing
How are you so naturally funny? :D
Existential crisis.
cool language, would not have heard about it if not for you, thank you mista azozin!
Wow, this might be what I wish rust was... Very nice!
Hair style guide
Raylib on Harelang Any% World Record 1:06:04
basically zig, at least hare has strong typing in the editor
be careful with nesting hares, you may end up with way more hares than intended
I will fricking love if you make a "general course of programming". It sad to know that'll not happen. 😃😕
wait, but right a the end you rated the language with 8/10 👀
please prediction model-san 🙏 give a rate to more languages that can run raylib so that we can finally have a proper programming language tier list
I will totally watch the course on programming in general. I assume you will talk more about memory, process, constructs rather than features of programming language. But I do understand, spending months on a course and then getting 500 people like me buy it is not a great roi.
hello Tsoding , (@40:35) you have also the language Odin ( C like ) that come out of the box with binding for popular lib like raylib. Wich is perfect for rapid prototyping and to rapidly setup on any computer (linux,windows , mac )
"If you know programming you know all the languages"
Until you try Haskell
The Hare logo looks like БЕЗНОГNМ more than actual БЕЗНОГNМ (Russian meme containing a hare and something “legless”)
Not 3 and a half discs, but on a SINGLE floppy which is 3 AND A HALF INCH LARGE!
I will watch all your courses or even buy them, please do some courses plz.
🐰bunny language🐰 is my new favorite! 🐇🐇
I would watch that programming course
I think he did talked about it that Don Knuth did it and no body reads his book
@@varshneydevansh except that knuth books are dry and hard to approach and would better used as references instead of reading them cover to cover, unlike tsoding streams which is fun to watch, informative and has engaging style.
Tsoding, Please would you mind doing a video on your desktop/window manager setup? I really love your low profile and "all from emacs" text only workflow. Very impressive, it helps people like me who needs to constantly fight against the distributions endless irritating UI innovations.
he didn't configure i3 as far as i know, so if he made a video about it, it would be like a tutorial on how to ise i3 as is.
Raylib speedrun is gold
I would eat your programming course for breakfast.
please make a video about programming in general!
Please tsoding, that would be awesome. There is a lot to learn about programming that is not language specific.
Try Lobster. It has physics engine and OpenGL support in it's standard library.
Next up: Tortoise scripting language
like literally LOGO, but to transcend along paths and nodes, fields and tables ...
hey tsoding, out of the modern c like languages (zig, odin, nim, etc...) which one has been the best for you? you've coded a lot, but what has felt a lot more intuitive for you in sense of applying core programming concepts rather than syntax memorization?
Love you bro and kove your videos. Literally helping me going through hard days. Thnk
We already have a betterC 😅
Not related, but I want to pet that Hare.
; )
Hare is kinda awesome
Heresy (harec) vs. HolyC
Who would win?
Tsoding is 100k subscriber 🎉.
Thank you Mr zozzing!
19:30 well, if you do I gonna FOR SURE watch and even buy that course from you!
I shall watch such course.
ive only seen it on /g/ but it seems like asomewhat good language
Its a good language. I hope someday to see some Tsoding in advent of code or similar.
Just like the Rust Vulkan episode, I would watch that. 19:48
LLVM takes itself almost a day to compile in my Gentoo with an intel i5 😂
I hope you'll make course about programming in general.
There is only one site that has many hare users and coincidentally it is the same one that Drew hates (or pretends to). That is pretty funny.
as a xoogler i'm delighted to here that they are investing in simpler systems. also they just fired over half their workforce, you dont want to work there.
So the issue you had at around 35:00 with the hare folder was that the executable is named after the parent folder, so creating a `hello` folder would have triggered the error.
If you have an `a.out` folder and run `cc main.c` it will say errno=21 (EISDIR).
It seem like the hare deveopler just wanted to compile typescript to machine code.
Beef programming language please!
finally, a video on hare!!!
I KNOW, RIGHT???
How does the FFI looks like in Hare ? how to call foreign functions ?
55:43 I agree with this sentiment
Average Recreational Programming Session.
tfw you prod nested hare ... wait what
how do you like the idea of doing something with procedural generation?
You really think people are not going to be interested in your "general programing" courses?
Well i can speak for myself, that i would CONSUME that stuff, especially knowing that course is from zozin.
Call me stupid, I'd pay for that, even if it would be mostly stuff i know
If you're going to do it, do it for minority.
I love this guy..
It's difficult to think about programming without binding to a programming language, but maybe it's because I only knew C well and never got deep into other languages. Would thinking about data and operation on such data a good starting point?
TFW DeVault asks for an annotation tool with a WYSIWYG PDF editor and is willing to pay $1000 (only if real time collab/cloud sync is included) for something covered in "How I draw figures for my mathematical lecture notes using Inkscape"
First you stick with a language, any language. After you have the tool to do actual programming, you will realise the language is just a path to your goal and there are many other paths to choose from. I think everyone learns like this. A general programming course is useful, but it is not as useful as actually doing programming.
Mr. Azozin might have the coolest community and not like some others a Haufen Scheisse
But, could Hare have instead compiled to C and used Clang(LLVM IR?) or gcc instead of LLVM?
Given 10 cores with no memory limit, llvm and clang on my gentoo each takes about 40mins to compile ….😅
CPU is AMD5800H
woohooo awesome! i didn't expect this!
Almost 100K!!!
Been waiting to see this video since seeing how much /g/ hates Hare
llvm is bloated and object oriented HOWEVER I like my system being as fast as possible, 30% does make a huge difference in many cases and the only python tool I use consistently is emerge which it being written in python does make the user experience actively worse
qbe looks kinda cool tho ngl
Where's "Pike Programming Language" video?
Today I leared that siemens is looking for A windows 3.1 programmer because of the debugger for german ICE 1 and 2 trains. So its not really the languages but you can really lock people/ companies in with tooling IDE's and development environments. And than you make ze moniez
btw, what tools you use for zoom up screen like in 19:43 ?
its his own tool he wrote in Nim called Boomer