It was my first introduction to a maximalist novel, and one of the very earliest examples of maximalism. It took me about a year to read it. I would go several months of only reading maybe a few pages and putting it down for something else. At other times I would read several hundred pages much faster, and repeat that cycle. There was so much constant noise and chaos and it feels like it was showing how people miscommunicate through their language both intentionally and unintentionally, and I agree that the constant lack of dialogue cues were disorienting. It's not the longest book I've ever read, but definitely the most esoterically dense book I've read. I don't know why I enjoy reading Gaddis' version of maximalism compared to Pynchon, who I've struggled to like so far. Carpenter's Gothic by Gaddis is I think less than 300 pages and maybe it would more tolerable than 900+ and 800 pages like The Recognitions, JR, A Frolic of His Own is about 600 pages He has another one called Agape Agape that is around 140 pages. They all use a ton of flowing dialogue between characters and constant switches and infrequent punctuation. When I read Gaddis it feels like the rapid flow of thinking that feels sort of random at times and constantly switches to new thoughts and ideas and it becomes hard to keep track of references that occurred pages ago, like trying to remember something forgotten.
@@ProfaneUnknown My main issue was how buried the main story was. I really like Wyatt’s predicament and all the stuff about Faust and the occult, but I could have done without the hundreds of pages on the artists in New York. Thanks for watching!
@@offthewallnovels1292 The party scenes were very long, but to me it added to the fakery themes because a lot of those conversations never seemed to have a point or an ending and it felt like people pretending to be this or that and constantly misunderstanding one another. And his prose just interests me, even when it seems like "why is this in the book and for this many pages?" There are some interviews with Gaddis on TH-cam that have interesting insights where he discusses his writing. Still, why Gaddis chose to be very unforgiving to the reader I don't really know for sure. I've been totally stumped by trying to read Mason & Dixon by Pynchon the couple times I've tried reading it.
Excellent video, Daniel. I want to first say, don't feel too bad for not finishing The Recognitions. It's a difficult novel, and I think (and I'm pretty positive there is a quote or article somewhere to back this up) that Gaddis intentionally made it not very reader-friendly. Ignoring Franzen's essay "Mr. Difficult," which sort of introduced me to this novel originally, it is a difficult novel regardless. The allusions, references, style, and syntax, along with Wyatt's sort of disintegration into the text, making it even harder to identify who and when is speaking, make The Recognitions a very disorienting read. However, I have found immense joy in the art of rereading it, as masochistic as that may sound, and have come to consider this novel a great friend of mine. The ambiguities and the references I might not always get, and I don't think it's the point to understand every piece of religious symbolism or archaic phrase. The enjoyment I get from reading it comes from reading a master of prose and style and letting the language wash over me. I came into contact with this novel at a pretty young age, and honestly, the first time I read it, I didn't get much out of it. Since reading more books considered "difficult," I would still rank this novel up there among difficult books. But then there lies a more fundamental question. Should a book be read or finished if it is considered too difficult, or if the reading experience gets to a point, like for you, where it does not become pleasurable anymore and pursuing further along in the story would only entail displeasure? I think you have every right to put the book down when it becomes arduous and just plain not fun anymore, and honestly, I don't blame you. As for disliking the characters and not being able to connect with them, except for your interest in Esther and Wyatt, that's a gripe I have with the works of Gaddis I have read. Even more so with JR. Especially JR. His characters in JR are, I think, even more dislikable and harder to connect with than those in The Recognitions, so much so that I feel that Gaddis was purging some major inner demons during the process of writing that novel (not to deter you from checking out JR, though). The party scenes in The Recognitions with the New York Yuppies I have always found entertaining, and I let Gaddis carry me along the scenes, following the decadence of the characters as they inevitably all collapse into utter disarray in the final sections of the novel. Truly depressing and heartbreaking on the highest of levels. If you ever do decide to finish the book or to restart down the line, I hope you see what I mean, as it does become even more metaphorical, metaphysical, and dare I say entropic. Thanks again for your video, as this comment was fueled by passion for the novel and caffeine, lol.
@@TyroneSlothropEatsBananas thanks for watching, and for your comment! I’ve decided I’ll probably pick it up again at the end of the summer. This video and deciding not to finish was a very emotional decision, and I didn’t even consider that taking a break was an option haha. I think part of it as well is that in working on my next novel, the question “what should a novel be?” Has been forefront in my mind, and I found myself simultaneously frustrated and intimidated by The Recognitions’ answer to that question. Comparison is the thief of joy! And I sometimes fall into thinking that if this book is difficult and opaque at times, then it must also mean it is higher quality or elite in some sense. That’s the fun part of art but also the downside, but I need to remind myself that no one is expecting me to be Gaddis, so I can forgive myself for not being him. I saw a video on tiktok of Billy Joel talking about how another musician taught him that he should forgive himself for not being Beethoven. It’s wild to see how even huge multigenerational talents deal with that as well. Anyway, thanks for the comment! I’ll be off social media for a while, but I’ll probably still check the comments here in that time.
I had a not too dissimilar experience with this book. I did end up finishing it but only because I was ruthlessly determined to. Similiarly felt that the first 300 pages were beautiful and really hit a wall as I kept going. I blame some of it on the fact that I was unemployed at the time so I both had time to read it but it's not necessarily a cheerful book if you're an aspiring artist looking for employment. It's a tough book to rate in my mind because I can recognize it's brilliance and I think readers like me should absolutely give it a try, but I ended up getting a lot more enjoyment out of his other novels.
That's the thing! The ideas were amazing, but I just realized, this is not fun. I would definitely try JR at some point, but I need a break. Thanks for commenting!
It was my first introduction to a maximalist novel, and one of the very earliest examples of maximalism. It took me about a year to read it. I would go several months of only reading maybe a few pages and putting it down for something else. At other times I would read several hundred pages much faster, and repeat that cycle. There was so much constant noise and chaos and it feels like it was showing how people miscommunicate through their language both intentionally and unintentionally, and I agree that the constant lack of dialogue cues were disorienting. It's not the longest book I've ever read, but definitely the most esoterically dense book I've read. I don't know why I enjoy reading Gaddis' version of maximalism compared to Pynchon, who I've struggled to like so far. Carpenter's Gothic by Gaddis is I think less than 300 pages and maybe it would more tolerable than 900+ and 800 pages like The Recognitions, JR, A Frolic of His Own is about 600 pages He has another one called Agape Agape that is around 140 pages. They all use a ton of flowing dialogue between characters and constant switches and infrequent punctuation. When I read Gaddis it feels like the rapid flow of thinking that feels sort of random at times and constantly switches to new thoughts and ideas and it becomes hard to keep track of references that occurred pages ago, like trying to remember something forgotten.
@@ProfaneUnknown My main issue was how buried the main story was. I really like Wyatt’s predicament and all the stuff about Faust and the occult, but I could have done without the hundreds of pages on the artists in New York. Thanks for watching!
@@offthewallnovels1292 The party scenes were very long, but to me it added to the fakery themes because a lot of those conversations never seemed to have a point or an ending and it felt like people pretending to be this or that and constantly misunderstanding one another. And his prose just interests me, even when it seems like "why is this in the book and for this many pages?" There are some interviews with Gaddis on TH-cam that have interesting insights where he discusses his writing. Still, why Gaddis chose to be very unforgiving to the reader I don't really know for sure. I've been totally stumped by trying to read Mason & Dixon by Pynchon the couple times I've tried reading it.
Excellent video, Daniel. I want to first say, don't feel too bad for not finishing The Recognitions. It's a difficult novel, and I think (and I'm pretty positive there is a quote or article somewhere to back this up) that Gaddis intentionally made it not very reader-friendly. Ignoring Franzen's essay "Mr. Difficult," which sort of introduced me to this novel originally, it is a difficult novel regardless.
The allusions, references, style, and syntax, along with Wyatt's sort of disintegration into the text, making it even harder to identify who and when is speaking, make The Recognitions a very disorienting read.
However, I have found immense joy in the art of rereading it, as masochistic as that may sound, and have come to consider this novel a great friend of mine.
The ambiguities and the references I might not always get, and I don't think it's the point to understand every piece of religious symbolism or archaic phrase. The enjoyment I get from reading it comes from reading a master of prose and style and letting the language wash over me.
I came into contact with this novel at a pretty young age, and honestly, the first time I read it, I didn't get much out of it. Since reading more books considered "difficult," I would still rank this novel up there among difficult books.
But then there lies a more fundamental question. Should a book be read or finished if it is considered too difficult, or if the reading experience gets to a point, like for you, where it does not become pleasurable anymore and pursuing further along in the story would only entail displeasure? I think you have every right to put the book down when it becomes arduous and just plain not fun anymore, and honestly, I don't blame you.
As for disliking the characters and not being able to connect with them, except for your interest in Esther and Wyatt, that's a gripe I have with the works of Gaddis I have read. Even more so with JR. Especially JR. His characters in JR are, I think, even more dislikable and harder to connect with than those in The Recognitions, so much so that I feel that Gaddis was purging some major inner demons during the process of writing that novel (not to deter you from checking out JR, though).
The party scenes in The Recognitions with the New York Yuppies I have always found entertaining, and I let Gaddis carry me along the scenes, following the decadence of the characters as they inevitably all collapse into utter disarray in the final sections of the novel. Truly depressing and heartbreaking on the highest of levels.
If you ever do decide to finish the book or to restart down the line, I hope you see what I mean, as it does become even more metaphorical, metaphysical, and dare I say entropic.
Thanks again for your video, as this comment was fueled by passion for the novel and caffeine, lol.
@@TyroneSlothropEatsBananas thanks for watching, and for your comment! I’ve decided I’ll probably pick it up again at the end of the summer. This video and deciding not to finish was a very emotional decision, and I didn’t even consider that taking a break was an option haha.
I think part of it as well is that in working on my next novel, the question “what should a novel be?” Has been forefront in my mind, and I found myself simultaneously frustrated and intimidated by The Recognitions’ answer to that question.
Comparison is the thief of joy! And I sometimes fall into thinking that if this book is difficult and opaque at times, then it must also mean it is higher quality or elite in some sense.
That’s the fun part of art but also the downside, but I need to remind myself that no one is expecting me to be Gaddis, so I can forgive myself for not being him.
I saw a video on tiktok of Billy Joel talking about how another musician taught him that he should forgive himself for not being Beethoven. It’s wild to see how even huge multigenerational talents deal with that as well.
Anyway, thanks for the comment! I’ll be off social media for a while, but I’ll probably still check the comments here in that time.
I had a not too dissimilar experience with this book. I did end up finishing it but only because I was ruthlessly determined to. Similiarly felt that the first 300 pages were beautiful and really hit a wall as I kept going. I blame some of it on the fact that I was unemployed at the time so I both had time to read it but it's not necessarily a cheerful book if you're an aspiring artist looking for employment. It's a tough book to rate in my mind because I can recognize it's brilliance and I think readers like me should absolutely give it a try, but I ended up getting a lot more enjoyment out of his other novels.
That's the thing! The ideas were amazing, but I just realized, this is not fun. I would definitely try JR at some point, but I need a break. Thanks for commenting!
If you're gonna skip some of The Recognitions, yeah skip Part III