*Dr. Tuggy speaks in a quiet, reasonable way. He sets forth a thesis that seems to have been arrived at over a rather-long period of time and with considerable study. But Dr. Brown steps up and immediately reveals that Dr. Tuggy's theology is unsupportable by Scripture. Well done, Sir!*
The real question is is the whole Bible true? If it is then Jesus IS NOT God. I can prove it a dozen times over. Unless you simply ignore plainly written verses of scripture even Jesus Himself denies he is God. The Holy Spirit opened the eyes of Stephen in Acts 7:56 to see God seated on the Throne of Heaven and Jesus standing beside it. If Jesus is God who is that being seated on that Throne?
“I and the Father are one.” John 10:30 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 8:58 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” John 1:1
Maddi Sheppard . john 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father,
John 10:30 is speaking of functional unity not a unity of nature as most unbiased trinitarian scholars even agree This same "oneness" is promised to the elect as well John 17:21 is clear about this. That they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. John 8:58 Christ was not claiming to be the Great I Am of Exodus 3:14 as the name of God is not In in the Greek text it is ego eimi ho on that is present in Exodus 3:14 BTW ego eimi is simply a phrase of self-identification which is why Judas ( the betrayer), the blind man and many others use it to identify themselves . Any attempt to claim from a grammatical perspective on John 8:58 as a direct connection to Exodus 3:14 is simply false. John 1:1 is truly a challenging verse ( there is about 5-10 ) may be in the entire body and only 1-3 that might be calling Jesus theos either way there have been many biblical unitarians who have explained it in various ways the way I see the most evidence for is the Wisdom tradition that John ( being a spiritual gospel) and at least 1 third being just about the last days of the messiahs life before his death and resurrection. Either way here is a basic breakdown. The Word is not a separate ontological being from God almighty the Word is just like Gods wisdom his strength it is an attribute of Almighty God the Worlds were created by His word by his breath not a separate individual or person Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. Jesus Christ was empowered by the Holy Spirit ( Holy spirit being the anointing power of God almighty ) Jesus Christ fully embodying both the word of God and the wisdom of God and after resurrection truly even the Spirit of God. The Logos the debar the memra was made flesh in the person and life of the human man Jesus the Christ who was the perfect Man the second Adam and the Son of God who was empowered by God raised from the dead by God and highly exalted above all else but himself clearly paralleling the exaltation of Joseph by Pharoah second to none but the pharaoh himself gave rulership over all of Egypt who all the people of the land bowed the knee . This is also a connection with the psalms The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” which Paul connects to Christ in 1 Corinthians 15 and further defines that when all things yea even death is brought under his feet then even the Son shall be in subjection to the Father that God (Father) Maybe all in all This topic is very vast and requires tons of study but I implore you to leave behind the simple quoting of traditional "proof texts" and earnestly set you bias aside and study the scriptures to see if the things that we have been taught by the church and the creeds are truly So
@@jasionsail John 1:18 (NIV) No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
@@ilj3168 that is a terrible translation btw if the Greek text supported it James white a famous trinitarian apologist would be the first to use it .that should tell you a lot there
I looked up Dr. Dale Tuggy. He teaches philosophy and world religions, including Eastern thought. This gives you an idea of the kind of teacher Dr. Brown is debating. Unless Dr. Tuggy, in his university lectures, is comparing how Christianity is alone the true religion, not one of many, his viewpoints already are suspect. Dr. Brown did fantastic, with many verses, causing me to exclaim "Amen!" This is the Jesus, fully God and man, that I worship!
What Dr Dale Tuggy said at minute 45:00 reminded me right away of this scripture in Mathew 22. ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, until I put Your enemies under Your feet.”’ 45. So if David calls Him Lord, how can He be David’s son?” 46. No one was able to answer a word, and from that day on no one dared to question Him any further. I'm guessing Dr Dale Tuggy wouldn't know how to answer either.
If Jesus is God who is seated on the Throne of Heaven in Acts 7:56? And other places? If Jesus is God why is he never seated on the Throne of Heaven? There is only one Throne.
@@TheBluegoatman check out Revelation! 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. You're right, there's only one throne 😁. Then check out. John 2028 where Thomas says my Lord and my God to Jesus. Then check out the Old testament where Jesus Christ is given the title of the almighty God as well as the sun as well as the Everlasting Father. Just let that one settle in 🤯. Here's something that may help the mind start to grasp this concept. You are a believer. You have The Holy Spirit in you. Well so do I and so does everyone else here who believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ. So is there one Holy Spirit? Or are there many?. How can he be in me and in you at the same time? As you contemplate this and pray to the Lord He will start to open up to you, the infinitude of his very Presence. I hope this helps
It sounds as if "Dr" Tuggy believes that since Jesus was obedient to God on earth, He is not divine. But anyone with any understanding knows that He was God from all eternity and humbled Himself and became flesh. Being a man does not make Jesus any less divine, He truly is our Kinsman Redeemer!
You have Question is in the ,Holly Bible ,and the Answer ,I'm Christian . John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him,I am the way,the truth,and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
what Jesus meant is that who ever followed his true teaching, he never claimed divinity. the whole subject of I and the father are one, what he meant was in PURPOSE. for example if I'm a doctor and my father is a doctor i could say i and my father are one, meaning in profession not the same person. also regarding his statement that I'm the Alpha Omega etc, all the power was given to him by the father (the one true God) every messenger was given a miracle by god otherwise people wouldn't believe them to be following gods order or teaching
@Abby Dr. Tuggy simply interprets the ambiguous verses with the unambiguous verses while Dr. Brown interprets the unambiguous verses with the ambiguous verses. In the case of Dr. Brown and all trinitarians when trying to prove the trinity, it's much like shooting an arrow and drawing a target where the arrow lands. In other words, trinitarians have already been trained to learn that God is a trinity before they even read Scripture and therefore when they actually read Scripture they insert that preconceived idea back into the text instead of letting the text speak for itself.
Unitarianism has a lot in common with Mormon theology and the Watchtower. These misconceptions seem to arise when people ignore the historical context in which Christianity arose, which was second temple Judaism, and instead assume Messianic expectation sprang out of nowhere in the first century and then try to reason from there using Greek philosophical conceptions of personhood and nature rather than from the Jewish understanding of what it means to be YHWH. Nice job, Dr. Brown. Brilliantly argued! The book “Jesus and the God of Israel” by Richard J. Bauckham also puts unitarianism out to pasture where it belongs. I hope Dr. Tuggy takes the time to read it. He at least seems sincere in his error.
“The intention of New Testament Christology, throughout the texts, is to include Jesus in the unique divine identity as Jewish monotheism understood it... They include Jesus in the unique divine sovereignty over all things, they include him in the unique divine creation of all things, they identify him by the divine name which names the unique divine identity, and they portray him as accorded the worship which, for Jewish monotheists, is recognition of the unique divine identity.”
If Jesus is not God, name any being in all creation that is great or worthy enough to be seated on the father’s throne receiving honor, glory and praise due only to God. Name it.
"There are trends in this in the last 100 years" [trinity being denied). Ah yes, the end times- well known in the bible for being a time of great deception and falling away. Definitely a reliable teaching era over what came before!
Wow..So is this gentleman a modalist or just denies the deity of Christ..guess I'm gonna have to watch and see ..I wonder what Mr. TUGGY thinks of Freemasonry..they try to lower the deity of Christ also..how you gonna say Jesus wasn't from the beginning and disregard John 1:1-3,14... Jesus was in the beginning with and is God..
Not a modalist. Modalists don't deny the deity of Christ. Modalists are confused in their theology, but I would still consider them genuinely Christian. This guy is promoting Arianism, which is utter heresy and Arians have no place even calling themselves Christian.
@Jayden Banks If you actually listen to them talk though, what they describe sounds pretty similar to the trinity. It's just a different perspective. Arianism is very obviously unbiblical. Not comparable, regardless of what any council has declared.
@Nathan Watt The Apostle John already interprets for us what is meant in John 1 in the opening of his first Epistle: *"What* (ὅ) was from the beginning (cf. John 1:1), *what* we have heard, *what* we have experienced, *what* we have perceived with our eyes and our hands have reached out for, concerning the word (λόγος) of life (cf. John 1:4). And the life was revealed, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you that *eternal life,* which was with the Father (cf. John 1:2) and was revealed unto us." So we can clearly see here that the word of John 1 is not a person but God's divine plan of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which was in God's divine council and plan before the world was created (Matt 25:34) and was later revealed in the person of the King Messiah. In regards to the word being called "God," if you at the Greek text: "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" ("In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and θεὸς was the word"). The word for God here in the third statement ("θεὸς") is to be understood here in the adjectival sense since the words "θεὸς" and "ὁ λόγος" (the word) are joined together by the verb "ἦν" ("to be") but the first subject (θεὸς) lacks the definite article. So "ὁ λόγος" (the word) is not being identified as "θεὸς" but is described as being within the sphere and likeness of "θεὸς". An example I could give you in English is if I say "the preacher is the man" I add the definite article before the word "man" and I thereby identify "the preacher" with some definite man I have in mind. But if I remove the definite article and say "the preacher is man" what I mean is that the preacher is in the sphere and likeness of man. He is "man-like." The same things applies with "the word" of John 1. "ὁ λόγος" here in John 1:1 is being described as "God-like" or "godly."
Well all because we see Jesus as being subordinate and we see the father is called the only true God doesn’t mean Jesus is not divine or that he’s not God.
We will never understand Gods infinite nature, its easy to reduce him to our limited reality and mortal world view. We can only accept by faith what Gods has revealed of himself. Uniterianism is bringing God down to our existence.
Is the difference between Modalists and Unitarians that Unitarians definitely deny the deity of Christ and just label him a holy man, while Modalists may affirm the Son's deity, only as a temporary flesh body?
Unitarians deny the "Diety of Christ in essence not in function and we distinguish between the being of the Father and the being of the Son Modalism throws them all together.
The cross-ex shows that Dr. Brown doesn’t understand some of Dr. Tuggy’s argumentation. For example, I think Hebrews 1:10-12 is somewhat of a doxology back to the Father (in lights of “your God” in 1:9), but Dr. Tuggy makes a good point on how NT authors take OT verses and apply new meaning to them, by the Holy Spirit.
Oneness pentecoastalism is not what the Bible teaches. Jesus praying to the Father in the Garden of Gethsemanae disproves that God is 1 person. God is 3 selfs in 1 power and essence
Wow, I thought Oneness advocates had exegetical issues until I heard Tuggy. I've never once got a revelation of Tuggy's points ever while reading/studying Holy Writ. Majority (I'm guessing 99.9%) of New Testament scholars/exegetes hold to a Non Unitarian view. Why is that? There's only ONE Holy Spirit who reveals what HE wrote!
@Saint Belligerant God became a man while simultaneously filling the universe invisibly, and is able to send Himself as Son and as Holy Spirit, who are shown as Him, yet distinct (one God in three persons, which people don't like because they cannot understand- yet how can we fully understand an infinite God?) And when we are told God is love, it shows that He must have existed always in three persons, because love cannot exist with one person, but between more than one. Yet this does not change His oneness. It is not possible to understand fully, as expected, but the scriptures taken as a whoke show this.
God so loved the world that he sent Jesus (God) into the World ( man had been corrupted with sin). God creates a plan to mankind. Satan was sentenced and told that because he had tempted woman to sin, through a woman’s seed God would crush him. Woman doesn’t have a seed so this references a child born of a virgin. Through Gods chosen people (plan) The redeemer, messiah would come to redeem us. The Law was given and God resided with his chosen. The law, the priest and the temple as a guide an a schoolmaster. Knowing the beginning from the end and vice Vera God new that no one man could uphold the law. Sacrifice had to made for mans sin until the redeemer. God was putting in place a way for man to choose him over themselves. Jesus putting his Deity aside was placed in the womb of Mary by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit. ( the Holy Spirit also over shadowed the babtism of the earth and the babtism of Jesus. ) Jesus was born into the world without the human genealogy of mankind. Jesus will become an unblemished lamb who will not squirm on the alter (the cross). Abraham and his son was a glimpse of the future. Jesus being God choosing to lay his Godhood aside to fulfill the perfect law and will become a sweet fragrance to God the Father and will satisfy all mans sins, past present and future. If however, you accept who Jesus is, why he came, and repenting and resting your salvation in his hands accepting his sacrifice and his taking your place on the cross. For the wages of sin is death. God is so Holy he cannot look at sin. Jesus knew this the night he was betrayed. He cruised out I thirst ( not for water) for all eternity The triune God , perfect love has been together. God the father looked away from him while he bore our sins (my God, My God why have you forsaken me) then he gave up his Spirit). Because he never sinned, never failed the law, Death had no hold on him) he resurrected to the right hand of the Father. When Steven was stoned he seen the Glory of God and Jesus at the right hand. Steven seen Gods glory because Jesus is the resurrection and the life. ( he told the thief, today you will be with me in paradise). Genesis, “ let us make man in our image. The whole bible reads like this and tons more. Anyone who can’t see the word of God plainly is blinded by sin and heresy. It reads out so a child or a dim minded person can understand it, because it is God Breathed. God did not give us a final Bible that would be tainted. Mere man cannot thwart the plans of the Almighty God. Humble yourselves and kneel before a wonderful and mighty God who loved you so much that he gave his son to die in our place, that in the name of Jesus, we may have everlasting life. To be allowed to know all the mysteries of why he is and to behold a being so huge and powerful that we in our finite minds were before unable to comprehend.
Wow! Just diving into this debate and the opening statement of the Unitarian felt like nails on a chalkboard, given all of the missed scripture that refutes those very arguments that were made. Then further isolating a few verses or philosophical points and forcing a boatload of rhetoric through that filter, something he claimed the trinitarian must do, there were so many issues with that reading of scripture that it's a wonder someone could spend a decade studying and come to that conclusion - missing the boat completely. Juxtapose that with the immediate, clear, obvious and powerful scriptural refutation that proves several key assumptions by the Unitarian are indeed false, as wholly denied and invalidated by scripture, itself.. and right out of the gate, Dr. Brown is demolishing the degradation of Christ, the Messiah, (Immanuel, which literally means "God with us",) for a much more consistent, biblical reading of the text, taking ALL of scripture into account.
Dr Brown, of 1 John 5:7, the earliest evidence that this was extant was written by Cyprian in 250: The Lord says, “I and the Father are one.” And, again, it is written of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit: “And these three are one.” "Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.423. Surely he had access to even the original manuscripts to check! Then Prescillian, Idacious Clarus, Athanasius, Aurelius Augustine, the Council of Carthage and more used it! The Old Syriac 170 AD Old Latin 200 AD included 1 John 5:7, preceding the earliest Greek manuscript it is in, in the 10th century by 700 years or so. Dr Brown, 1 John 5:7 surely belongs in the bible!
Aye we can argue all day but if you think Jesus is created or eternal is basically the main question. John 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made
1) John 1:3 doesn't require "eternality" 2) Go read 2 or 3 translations of John 1:1-3 prior to the KJV1611. They say "Through *it* all things were made; without *it* nothing was made that has been made."
@@Seraphoverpheonix "...were made by it..." Gen 1, "God *said*..." Simple. Go read Proverbs 8 to get an idea of how a word like "Wisdom" can sound like a real person in Hebrew literature even though it's clearly not. As Tuggy mentioned--you're reading this with modern 2019 glasses instead of their own time period and literature.
droptozro there is no translation that refers Jesus as “it”. The whole content is that Jesus created everything. Without him, nothing was made... You should just accept that.
@@Seraphoverpheonix ....it doesn't say "Jesus" in John 1:3. It says "word" in John 1:1-2--that's a patent mis-reading. You should just accept that. And then go learn Greek to learn why earlier translations did translate "houtos" and "autos" as "it" instead of "him." You're just basing your views on biased translations instead of seeing legitimate other possibilities.
Oneness believes in the deity of Christ, while trinitarians actually have distinctions between Christ and God. Oneness and Unitarianism are really the only two logically consistent positions.
@@ABC123jd Trinitarians do not make a distinction between Christ and God. Christ is one Person in the Being of God just like the Father and the Holy Spirit. Oneness and Unitarianism are not consistent with Scripture so are false.
@@deniseadkins2901 Is God tripersonal? Is Jesus tripersonal? If you get two different answers, then there's at least one difference between Jesus and God on your view.
agama aneh yang bahkan sampai disembah di jadikan tuhan tapi tidak satupun aturan nya di ikuti seperti yesus puasa,sholat,di sunat dll, tapi malah mengikuti ajaran paulus harus nya menyembah paulus bukan yesus
Great job Dr. Brown, I definitely appreciate your consistency and how you continued to stay true to the scripture. You always pointed back to the text. Praise God
@@carlosprieto5970 I took your advice and looked at his video and why he denies the trinity. Need to bleach my brain now. Friendly tip: If you want to get people to deny the trinity, you may want to send them to someone besides Jennings. At any rate, best to you, Carlos, and God bless.
Dr. Brown is biblically correct in all points! Revelation 1:8 KJV I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Did Tuggy just deny the incarnation? And used "intertestemental literature to do so? minute 51-52. So he has absolutely no reason to claim Christ as Lord and Savior. SMH.
Because the Father's spirit can be talked about in personal ways since it's literally the spirit of the Father, who is a person. Just like man's spirit can be talked about in personal ways, but it's not literally a separate person from the man.
"May the God of Israel, YHWH (Yeshua) reveal himself to this guy." - You "13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go" - Peter, Acts 3:13 The God of Israel is the God *of* Jesus, and there's plenty more clear verses where that comes from without confusion from the likes of Brown.
@Humberto Gutiérrez Yeshua cannot be the God of Israel if the God of Israel is his God (Mic 5:4, Jn 20:17, Eph 1:17, Rev 3:12). Furthermore, Jesus is never called "YHVH." Interestingly enough, the only man to call himself YHVH God is Moses in Deuteronomy 29:6 when he is speaking as God as God's agent.
If Jesus was just a mere simple man, according to Unitarians. What's their logical explanation for Jesus's miraculous abilities? Curing various illnesses, restoring eyesight, raising up his brother from the dead. Including walking on the sea. Does a simple human being have these divine abilities? Even the demons acknowledged Jesus divinity in Luke 4:41.
They would say that he was performing them entirely by the power of God as a prophet, with no power of his own. Even though that's the disproved by the fact that people were surprised at his miracles and how he spoke, as if they were categorically different from the prophets of older times. To give some examples of this, Christ freely added to the words of the Bible: he's either YHWH or a major heretic. When he speaks on behalf of YHWH, even when giving prophecy of the future, he never says "thus saith YHWH", nor does the New Testament ever use the language of "and the word came to him" or "the word went out". Moses was afraid to speak to the rock as he was commanded because he didn't think it would work and so he chose to strike it; Christ spoke to the Creation and stopped an entire storm (and the Disciples said something like (paraphrase): "Who is this man that even nature listens to his words?"). And in fact, speaking of Moses being commanded to act, Yeshua is NEVER commanded by God to ever do anything prophet-like. There's no record of it. He simply does it in full authority and knowledge as if he is actually YHWH himself and as if the power belonged to him. The list could probably go on with examples that disprove their potential response, so I'm gonna stop here. Just offering some ammo against what they're likely going to say.
Acts 2:¶Ye men of Israel, hear these words; 👉👉Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God👈👈 among you 👉👉by miracles and wonders and signs, 👈👈 which 👉👉God did by him👈👈 in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Matthew 12:28 28But if I cast out devils👉👉 by the Spirit of God👈👈, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Corinthians 5:19 KJV - 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Luke 7 14And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.15And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother16¶And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, 👉That a great prophet is risen up among us; 👈and, That 👉God hath visited his people.👈
This is how to understand God has visited his people When God raises up Saviours and deliverers or sends prosperity Ruth 1:6 6 Then she arose with her daughters in law, that she might return from the country of Moab: for she had heard in the country of Moab how that 👉👉the LORD had visited his people in giving them bread.👈👈. Genesis 21:1¶And 👉👉the LORD visited Sarah 👈👈as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken.2For 👉Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son 👈in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.Genesis Genesis 50:24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and 👉👉God will surely visit you, 👈👈and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Tuggy repeatedly says "look at the reason they worshipped the exalted man". First of all, this is a really stupid point because the worship is still the same regardless. It doesn't matter what the reason given for the worship is: the question is, _why is the worship the _*_same_*_ worship_ that is given to the Father? Let me submit, that the Old Testament (which was the only Scripture that the Apostles had orginally) provides an answer that actually turns Tuggy's point against him: Isaiah 43:11 says: "I, yes I, am YHWH, and there is no Savior but Me." Therefore, according to Scripture, Christ is YHWH. Therefore, Christ receives the same worship because he IS the same God. When you use Scripture to interpret Scripture, conjecture is always demolished.
@Izzy Izzerton The worship given to the Father (i.e. God) is not the same worship given to Jesus. Jesus is worshipped as God's anointed king, not God. Furthermore, the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 43:11 is "מוֹשִֽׁיעַ" ("deliverer" or "savior"). Yet we find this exact same term used in regards to other men besides Jesus as it is written: "And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer (מוֹשִֽׁיעַ) to the children of Israel, who saved them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother" (Judges 3:9). This does not contradict the statement in Isaiah 43:11 since God is the only true source of deliverence and it is used of Othniel in a secondary sense. This same principle applies to Jesus.
@@nb3500 To quote myself in response to someone else who tried to use this same fallacious reasoning: "You miss the point. Nobody worshipped Moses (especially not as YHWH) because he saved Israel from Egypt, yet Tuggy continually stresses that the reasoning for Christ's worship (and as YHWH, no less) is because he saved Israel and the world from He Who Holds the Power Over Death. So why was Yeshua worshipped as Savior and God but Moses wasn't? If you're having trouble, simply re-read the above-quoted Scripture in the context of why it's being given as an argument instead of ripping it out of the context of the topic." As far as saying they aren't worshipped the same because Christ is worshipped as God's anointed king, the above point disproves that, so you can't just argue from denial.
@@blanktrigger8863 The act of being a savior is simply a prerogative of being someone who God has chosen. There is a difference between worshipping someone for being appointed as a savior by God and worshipping God for being the source of saviorhood.
@@nb3500 That's a very weak argument that again denies context. Christ was worshipped as Savior and God, Moses wasn't (nor was any other figure). Why did this happen? You're trying to generalize something specific without acknowledging that what happened defies the general: this is illogical.
@@blanktrigger8863 And you're using subjective reasoning. There is no where in Scripture where it says Jesus was worshipped for being savior and God. You're simply defining "worship" differently when it's used of Jesus compared to all other men whom Scripture says were worshipped.
That refers to his breath, you stop breathing when you die. Men are living souls because God gave them breath. Gen 2:7 Basic biblical foundations have been disrupted by Greek philosophy which has highly infiltrated modern professing Christianity.
Hebrews 1 “3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. “ As a human, Jesus is said to be in the likeness of God and Gods nature. Also, through the Son, all creation came into existence and is held by him. But you can’t be human and hold all creation together. Humans don’t have that power. And that’s just creation. To contain the glory of God? 1 Kings 8: 27 “But will God indeed dwell upon the earth? Even Heaven, the Highest Heaven, cannot contain you, much less this temple I have built.” Can a human walk on the sun, or hold the sun in their hands? The sun is just one in a universe filled with stars! And yet, the heavens/space can easily contain them all. Just to put Gods radiant glory into perspective. The heavens can’t contain his glory! How much less can a human body contain his glory! God’s nature in infinitely bigger than creation! So believers of Jesus as God are trying to tell us that God/his nature was in Jesus as a man. Even in Heaven, his heavenly body couldn’t contain Gods nature! Do you see the problem of Jesus being the representation of God? God literally can’t be contained in any form! God is beyond creation.
YHWH is the source of Salvation Yes !! He is our Great Saviour but he also sends others to be saviours even his promised davidic messiah Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore you gave them into the hand of their enemies, who made them suffer. And in the time of their suffering they cried out to you and you heard them from heaven, and according to your great mercies you gave them saviors who saved them from the hand of their enemies. Obadiah 1:21 Saviors shall go up to Mount Zion to rule Mount Esau, and the kingdom shall be the LORD’s. Luke 2:11-14 (ESV) 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Yes as God was with Israel and sent the promised Messiah the promised prophet Deuteronomy 18:18 who would speak Gods words not his own and who would rule as Davidic king on the throne of David luke 1 30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name 👉👉JESUS.👈👈 32He shall be great, and 👉shall be called the Son of the Highest:👈 and the👉👉 Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:👈👈 This has yet to be fulfilled 👉Hosea 3:5 KJV - 5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and 👉seek the LORD their God, 👈and 👉David their king;👈 and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. The Davidic Messiah is not God but will rule by Gods authority. Isaiah 11 KJV - 1 And there shall come forth a 👉rod out of the stem of Jesse👈, and a 👉Branch shall grow out of his roots:👈 2 And 👉the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him,👈 the 👉spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge👈 and 👉👉of the fear of the LORD;👈👈 Jesus Christ is that promised branch who God empowered with wisdom, counsel, might, and the fear of the Lord.
@Carole Wilson The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 43:11 is "מוֹשִֽׁיעַ" ("deliverer" or "savior") yet we find this exact same term used in regards to other men besides Jesus as it is written: "And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer (מוֹשִֽׁיעַ) to the children of Israel, who saved them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother" (Judges 3:9). This does not contradict the statement in Isaiah 43:11 since God is the only true source of deliverence and it is used of Othniel in a secondary sense. This same principle applies to Jesus.
@@brentholladay3113 The more literal translation of Immanuel is "with us is God" or it would be more comfortably translated into English as "God is with us." We find this same exact word used in Isaiah 8:10 which says: "Take counsel together, and it shall be brought to nought; Speak the word, and it shall not stand; For *God is with us [Immanuel]."* But read Proverbs chapter 30 verse 1: "The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto *Ithiel,* even unto *Ithiel* and Ucal," The name "IthiEL" in Hebrew actually means "with me is God." Of course, the women who named her child that did not think he was God. But in regards to the name "Immanuel" what it means is that God is with us in the King Messiah. Meaning that God is with us in the sense that He has provided His chosen King as a comforter. If I say for example "may God be with you" what I obviously mean is that may God comfort you and bring you peace.
If you don't understand the difficulties in translating Greek to English without perfect equivalencies and normal bias, you're best off keeping your mouth quiet no matter which position you believe in the debate.
@Tony Parry But that is usually the issue. Just look at the way trinitarians translate "ego eimi" when it's used by Jesus is John 8:58 and when it's used by the blind man in John 9:9. And then compare the way trinitarians translate the word "el" when it's used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6 and when the word "el" is used for the king of Babylon in Ezekiel 31:11.
Tuggy has blatantly called the Old Testament prophets and New Testament apostles a liar which is blasphemous but Dr. Dale has to remember, he is a liar because a liar is anyone who denies Jesus Christ as Lord and receive not his testimony he reveal from his father.
Hi Dr Brown. What do you think about Justin Martyr's view of Jesus and the Father being like a candle lighting another candlestick. There are 2 lights of the same substance/nature and power. The power of the Father is not diminished after Jesus proceeded from Him. The same analogy goes for the Holy Spirit. Is that exegesis of the Trinity true.??? Thanks
@@nthdegree1269 , yes agree father /son /holy spirit share divine essence , but analogy of father being like candle lighting another candlestick not correct
Dr. Tuggy sounds like the type of guy who bases his theology on just studying the Bible only in English. Dr. Michael Brown uses scripture with the understanding of Greek and Hebrew.
Says the one who believes Jesus is God and also not God, that God is tripersonal and also not tripersonal, that Jesus is the same as the one God but also different from the one God.
Tugging basically takes things at face value and doesn’t want to look any deeper. If he really wants to be a unitarian, he has to deny the New Testament if he were intellectually honest.
Wow, it's very obvious what you're doing, Dr. Tuggy. You've formed your own belief and are twisting scripture to support it. Your Genesis 1:26 argument is a perfect example of this. You need to use more scripture to make your point. Not third party authors. Scripture is all that matters. And specific scripture. Not John says or didn't say, Peter says or didn't say, etc. You're playing with fire sir....
God is one and only one, The holy YHWH, who has revealed itself or herself or himself (but simply speaking, himself) in three ways to the human understanding, The one true Lord God , YHWH, Our Holy Father, the one true Lord God, YHWH, The Son the word, Jesus Christ, the one true Lord God, YHWH, The Holy Spirit.
Well done Dr. Brown. You did an excellent job. I find it dishonest that Tuggy kept trying to make you out to be a Modelist when you clearly stated and proved that wasn’t your position but he continues to strawman you after you clarified. I wonder what Tuggy would say about Genesis 19:24. How is their 2 LORDS in the verse? 🤔 24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. Genesis 19:24 | ESV
Notice how Tuggy's arguments are mostly questions. Why is the holy spirit not worshiped, etc. Brown steps up and just buries unitarianism with nothing but a barage of scriptures.
My only real issue with Tuggy aside from his beliefs is that he seems very convinced hes the only person to ever understand what the difference between sabellianism, modalism and social trinitarianism is.
Also, when he said that Hebrews is setting up an exalted man because "why would he need to argue that Christ is higher than the angels": Actually, the purpose of Hebrews 1 seems to be an argument against the heretical belief that Christ was an angel himself. As the text says: "To which of the angels has 'x thing' thing been said?" If, like, Dr. Brown, you understand the Jewish idea of the Memra (the Word) that existed in the Targumim at that time, then you know that one of the possible identities given to the Memra was Metatron, who was an angel. This was a distinctly Jewish idea and it explains why this heresy appears in a Jewish population (as the epistle was to the Hebrews) instead of a Gentile one. Since the Jews already had this concept in their minds, they likely had a circulating heresy that Christ was the angel Metatron (who was also theorized to be the angel of YHWH if I'm not mistaken, as the angel of YHWH was viewed as the Memra-manifest). Hebrews 1 is therefore directly refuting any such notion and it does so in several ways: 1) It states that Christ is pre-existent; 2) It repeats the doctrine of abasement, which appears in Paul's earlier epistles, thus establishing that Christ is actually YHWH-incarnate; 3) It lists certain privileges/duties/offices from the Old Testament that were never given to angels. Tuggy, however, clearly doesn't know about the Memra because he assumes that the Logos language was stolen from the Gnostics. This means that as much as he likes to stress context, including extra-biblical context, he's more ignorant than his arrogance lets on.
The most ridiculous statement in Christianity is:" god died. "
1 Tim. 6: 16. Yahweh ALONE has immortality . Immortality CANNOT DIE. Yahweh's literal genetic SON Yahshua DIED. Yahshua received the second death. Rev. 20: 14- 15. The second death is SOUL out of existence. Ezekiel . 18: 4 and 20. Yahshua was out of existence for 39 hours according to Moses law. 3PM on the 6TH day to 6 AM on the first day of the week. 3 hours on the preparation day + 24 hours on the Sabbath + 12 hours on the first day of the week. 3 + 24 + 12 = 39 hours. Eccl. 9: 5- 6. The living KNOW that they will DIE, But the DEAD KNOW NOTHING." Job. 14: 7- 15. Job knew he was going to his GRAVE and will be raised from the dead in the resurrection on judgement day. May Yahweh give you your hearts desire. Heb. 12: 14. Bless you
Brother Dr. Michael Brown is an awesome brother in the Lord Jesus. Christ. He is a true man of God. Also, Another Awesome brother in the Lord Jesus Christ is brother Sam Shamoun, he is a true of man of God as well. Many awesome brothers in the Lord Jeus Christ. Brother wood, Brother Rogers, brother Malone, and Brother white, etc. If you're Unitarian and willing to listen, then check out these brother's, they have TH-cam channel's. God bless you in Jesus Christ's All Mighty Holy Name.
The LORD our God Jesus Christ is our Heavenly Father and there is no other God beside him. Jesus Christ is the one and only God, our Father, the Almighty. Jesus Christ is the First and the Last and there was no God formed before him, neither shall there be any after him.
I believe in one God but I have no problem giving Glory, Worship, Godly Authority, the One Holy Name to another creature and Calling him LORD and God - Mr. Tuggy
@Saint Belligerant If you read what the bible said it wouldn't lead to heresy: Isaiah 40: 3 - "A voice of one calling: “Prepare the way for the LORD (YHWH) in the wilderness..." Mark 1: 3.“A voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord (Kuriou), make straight paths for Him.’” 4. John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance" These are just facts.
@Saint Belligerant Mark applies Isaiah 40: 3 to Jesus; this is irrefutable, just read it for yourself: "A voice of one calling: "In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God"
@Saint Belligerant John the Baptist was the voice calling in the Wilderness; he says so himself: “ _I am the voice_ of _one_ calling in the wilderness,l ‘Make straight the way for the Lord (kuriou).’ Mark 1: 2 is about John the Baptist: I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way” Which is from Malachi 3: 1 "Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord [adon], whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, he is coming," says the Lord [YHWH] of hosts.
Saint Belligerant Adonai is the plural of Adon. I just paste it from a site. Malachi says He will come to His temple. It’s the temple of YHWH ergo Jesus is YHWH
@Saint Belligerant if we define God being a human in nature...then yes, I suppose that would stand. I'm willing to bet, however, that God is a unique and only category of being...definitely not a human being.
@@Mr_A1-37 Jesus is 100% God and 100% man, but God is not human. He is simply incarnate. It is hard to understand- in fact that is why it is the mystery of the incarnation! We simply cannot fully understand our infinite God...
IMO, the concept of the Trinity is difficult to explain. It is also something we take on Faith. Some people just can't see their way to understand it whether they weren't brought up that way or if they are blinded to the truth. We as humans can never expect to understand the full nature of God. But others it seems, they don't even try, through prayer, the study of the Scripture and such.
If the Bible denies the trinity why should we uphold it? If Jesus is God why did the Bible say he never sits on the Throne of Heaven? There is one Throne in Heaven and only God himself every sits on it. Acts 7:56, Hebrews 1:3, Mark 16:19. If Jesus is God why does John 14:6 even exist? Why would Jesus need to be the door to God if he himself is God? Jesus said multiple times he isn't God. He said he was commanded by the Father. He said the Father was greater than him. He said he received power from the Father. If Jesus is God why would he need to get his power from someone else? The fact is you are the person you claim doesn't have understanding. You argue for the Trinity with a closed mind and heart because your were taught that. But the Bible plainly and openly DOESN'T teach that.
@@TheBluegoatman There are three persons in the Trinity. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Father and the Holy Spirit is neither. Christ is God in the flesh. The books of Colossians and Philippians backs this up.
@@deniseadkins2901 Christ is God's representative in the flesh. If Jesus is God why does he have to draw power from the Father? If Jesus is God who is the being seated on the Throne of Heaven in Acts 7:56?
@@TheBluegoatman You really don't understand the Trinity, do you? Look it up. It's an interesting read. Start in Genesis 1. Pay attention in John 1 and Philippians 2.
@@deniseadkins2901 actually I have studied at length. That's why I know according to the Bible it isn't true. Jesus says more about not being God than he does accept worship. Jesus is divine. But he was given his divinity by the Father in Daniel chapter 7. Followed by Hebrews 1:4. It literally says that Jesus obtained a more excellent name by inheritance. The funny thing is that you refuse to answer a simple question. I think you can't so you ignore it. Who is seated on the Throne of Heaven in Acts 7:56? Who is seated on the Throne in Mark 16:19? Who is seated on the Throne in Hebrews 1:3? Who is seated on the Throne in Revelation 5:7? Who is seated on the Throne in Daniel 7:9? The Bible literally goes against what you believe and instead of believing what the Bible says you just keep believing what someone else taught you. Why is it so easy for your to just ignore what the Bible says? Jesus Christ Himself said the Father was greater than he. Jesus said he could do NOTHING without the Father. None of these things says Jesus is God. Go ahead and ignore the Bible. Why you would, I don't know, but so many people do.
@@LFTV I agree with you. I just thought, considering his reputation, he'd really bring more to the table. I was being a bit sarcastic because I don't for a minute believe Dr White is afraid to debate anyone
*Dr. Tuggy speaks in a quiet, reasonable way. He sets forth a thesis that seems to have been arrived at over a rather-long period of time and with considerable study. But Dr. Brown steps up and immediately reveals that Dr. Tuggy's theology is unsupportable by Scripture. Well done, Sir!*
The real question is is the whole Bible true? If it is then Jesus IS NOT God. I can prove it a dozen times over. Unless you simply ignore plainly written verses of scripture even Jesus Himself denies he is God. The Holy Spirit opened the eyes of Stephen in Acts 7:56 to see God seated on the Throne of Heaven and Jesus standing beside it. If Jesus is God who is that being seated on that Throne?
“I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 8:58
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” John 1:1
Maddi Sheppard . john 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father,
/end of debate. Thanks for coming.
John 10:30 is speaking of functional unity not a unity of nature as most unbiased trinitarian scholars even agree This same "oneness" is promised to the elect as well John 17:21 is clear about this. That they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. John 8:58 Christ was not claiming to be the Great I Am of Exodus 3:14 as the name of God is not In in the Greek text it is ego eimi ho on that is present in Exodus 3:14 BTW ego eimi is simply a phrase of self-identification which is why Judas ( the betrayer), the blind man and many others use it to identify themselves . Any attempt to claim from a grammatical perspective on John 8:58 as a direct connection to Exodus 3:14 is simply false.
John 1:1 is truly a challenging verse ( there is about 5-10 ) may be in the entire body and only 1-3 that might be calling Jesus theos either way there have been many biblical unitarians who have explained it in various ways the way I see the most evidence for is the Wisdom tradition that John ( being a spiritual gospel) and at least 1 third being just about the last days of the messiahs life before his death and resurrection. Either way here is a basic breakdown. The Word is not a separate ontological being from God almighty the Word is just like Gods wisdom his strength it is an attribute of Almighty God the Worlds were created by His word by his breath not a separate individual or person Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth all their host. Jesus Christ was empowered by the Holy Spirit ( Holy spirit being the anointing power of God almighty ) Jesus Christ fully embodying both the word of God and the wisdom of God and after resurrection truly even the Spirit of God. The Logos the debar the memra was made flesh in the person and life of the human man Jesus the Christ who was the perfect Man the second Adam and the Son of God who was empowered by God raised from the dead by God and highly exalted above all else but himself clearly paralleling the exaltation of Joseph by Pharoah second to none but the pharaoh himself gave rulership over all of Egypt who all the people of the land bowed the knee . This is also a connection with the psalms The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”
which Paul connects to Christ in 1 Corinthians 15 and further defines that when all things yea even death is brought under his feet then even the Son shall be in subjection to the Father that God (Father) Maybe all in all This topic is very vast and requires tons of study but I implore you to leave behind the simple quoting of traditional "proof texts" and earnestly set you bias aside and study the scriptures to see if the things that we have been taught by the church and the creeds are truly So
@@jasionsail John 1:18 (NIV)
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
@@ilj3168 that is a terrible translation btw if the Greek text supported it James white a famous trinitarian apologist would be the first to use it .that should tell you a lot there
I looked up Dr. Dale Tuggy. He teaches philosophy and world religions, including Eastern thought. This gives you an idea of the kind of teacher Dr. Brown is debating. Unless Dr. Tuggy, in his university lectures, is comparing how Christianity is alone the true religion, not one of many, his viewpoints already are suspect. Dr. Brown did fantastic, with many verses, causing me to exclaim "Amen!" This is the Jesus, fully God and man, that I worship!
What Dr Dale Tuggy said at minute 45:00 reminded me right away of this scripture in Mathew 22. ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, until I put Your enemies under Your feet.”’ 45. So if David calls Him Lord, how can He be David’s son?” 46. No one was able to answer a word, and from that day on no one dared to question Him any further. I'm guessing Dr Dale Tuggy wouldn't know how to answer either.
If Jesus is God who is seated on the Throne of Heaven in Acts 7:56? And other places? If Jesus is God why is he never seated on the Throne of Heaven? There is only one Throne.
@@TheBluegoatman check out Revelation! 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. You're right, there's only one throne 😁. Then check out. John 2028 where Thomas says my Lord and my God to Jesus. Then check out the Old testament where Jesus Christ is given the title of the almighty God as well as the sun as well as the Everlasting Father. Just let that one settle in 🤯. Here's something that may help the mind start to grasp this concept. You are a believer. You have The Holy Spirit in you. Well so do I and so does everyone else here who believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ. So is there one Holy Spirit? Or are there many?. How can he be in me and in you at the same time? As you contemplate this and pray to the Lord He will start to open up to you, the infinitude of his very Presence. I hope this helps
It sounds as if "Dr" Tuggy believes that since Jesus was obedient to God on earth, He is not divine. But anyone with any understanding knows that He was God from all eternity and humbled Himself and became flesh. Being a man does not make Jesus any less divine, He truly is our Kinsman Redeemer!
Saint Belligerant don’t be so silly, no one thinks that. It is through his humanity that we are brothers with Him.
You have Question is in the ,Holly Bible ,and the Answer ,I'm Christian .
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him,I am the way,the truth,and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
what Jesus meant is that who ever followed his true teaching, he never claimed divinity. the whole subject of I and the father are one, what he meant was in PURPOSE. for example if I'm a doctor and my father is a doctor i could say i and my father are one, meaning in profession not the same person. also regarding his statement that I'm the Alpha Omega etc, all the power was given to him by the father (the one true God) every messenger was given a miracle by god otherwise people wouldn't believe them to be following gods order or teaching
“Be aware of false teachers” Mr. Tuggy is one false teacher indeed.
Definitely. I was expecting him to be a modalist. This is much worse. Outright denial of the deity of Christ. Utter heresy.
@Abby Dr. Tuggy simply interprets the ambiguous verses with the unambiguous verses while Dr. Brown interprets the unambiguous verses with the ambiguous verses. In the case of Dr. Brown and all trinitarians when trying to prove the trinity, it's much like shooting an arrow and drawing a target where the arrow lands. In other words, trinitarians have already been trained to learn that God is a trinity before they even read Scripture and therefore when they actually read Scripture they insert that preconceived idea back into the text instead of letting the text speak for itself.
@Saint Belligerant in spirit
@Saint Belligerant referencing a verse about His bodily resurrection?
@Saint Belligerant see Brown's answer at the 2 hour and 34 minute mark. He later adds to it around the last minute of the video.
Dr Brown is the man!!Praise Lord Jesus!!!!❤
Unitarianism has a lot in common with Mormon theology and the Watchtower. These misconceptions seem to arise when people ignore the historical context in which Christianity arose, which was second temple Judaism, and instead assume Messianic expectation sprang out of nowhere in the first century and then try to reason from there using Greek philosophical conceptions of personhood and nature rather than from the Jewish understanding of what it means to be YHWH. Nice job, Dr. Brown. Brilliantly argued! The book “Jesus and the God of Israel” by Richard J. Bauckham also puts unitarianism out to pasture where it belongs. I hope Dr. Tuggy takes the time to read it. He at least seems sincere in his error.
“The intention of New Testament Christology, throughout the texts, is to include Jesus in the unique divine identity as Jewish monotheism understood it... They include Jesus in the unique divine sovereignty over all things, they include him in the unique divine creation of all things, they identify him by the divine name which names the unique divine identity, and they portray him as accorded the worship which, for Jewish monotheists, is recognition of the unique divine identity.”
If Jesus is not God, name any being in all creation that is great or worthy enough to be seated on the father’s throne receiving honor, glory and praise due only to God. Name it.
According to Dale Tuggy the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, but using that same logic the word "unitarian" is also not in the Bible.
Is Tuggy even saved? Could you imagine getting a sermon from this guy? What in the world would he teach?
You can look up his sermons on TH-cam
"There are trends in this in the last 100 years" [trinity being denied).
Ah yes, the end times- well known in the bible for being a time of great deception and falling away. Definitely a reliable teaching era over what came before!
Wow..So is this gentleman a modalist or just denies the deity of Christ..guess I'm gonna have to watch and see ..I wonder what Mr. TUGGY thinks of Freemasonry..they try to lower the deity of Christ also..how you gonna say Jesus wasn't from the beginning and disregard John 1:1-3,14... Jesus was in the beginning with and is God..
Not a modalist. Modalists don't deny the deity of Christ. Modalists are confused in their theology, but I would still consider them genuinely Christian. This guy is promoting Arianism, which is utter heresy and Arians have no place even calling themselves Christian.
@@EssenceofPureFlavor got it, makes sense. Thanks :)
@Jayden Banks If you actually listen to them talk though, what they describe sounds pretty similar to the trinity. It's just a different perspective. Arianism is very obviously unbiblical. Not comparable, regardless of what any council has declared.
@Jayden Banks JWs are Arians, not modalists. Again, modalists don't deny the deity of Christ.
@Nathan Watt The Apostle John already interprets for us what is meant in John 1 in the opening of his first Epistle: *"What* (ὅ) was from the beginning (cf. John 1:1), *what* we have heard, *what* we have experienced, *what* we have perceived with our eyes and our hands have reached out for, concerning the word (λόγος) of life (cf. John 1:4). And the life was revealed, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you that *eternal life,* which was with the Father (cf. John 1:2) and was revealed unto us." So we can clearly see here that the word of John 1 is not a person but God's divine plan of the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which was in God's divine council and plan before the world was created (Matt 25:34) and was later revealed in the person of the King Messiah.
In regards to the word being called "God," if you at the Greek text: "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" ("In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and θεὸς was the word"). The word for God here in the third statement ("θεὸς") is to be understood here in the adjectival sense since the words "θεὸς" and "ὁ λόγος" (the word) are joined together by the verb "ἦν" ("to be") but the first subject (θεὸς) lacks the definite article. So "ὁ λόγος" (the word) is not being identified as "θεὸς" but is described as being within the sphere and likeness of "θεὸς". An example I could give you in English is if I say "the preacher is the man" I add the definite article before the word "man" and I thereby identify "the preacher" with some definite man I have in mind. But if I remove the definite article and say "the preacher is man" what I mean is that the preacher is in the sphere and likeness of man. He is "man-like." The same things applies with "the word" of John 1. "ὁ λόγος" here in John 1:1 is being described as "God-like" or "godly."
Well all because we see Jesus as being subordinate and we see the father is called the only true God doesn’t mean Jesus is not divine or that he’s not God.
Yes, Jesus being subordinate to God makes him someone other than God.
We will never understand Gods infinite nature, its easy to reduce him to our limited reality and mortal world view. We can only accept by faith what Gods has revealed of himself. Uniterianism is bringing God down to our existence.
Is the difference between Modalists and Unitarians that Unitarians definitely deny the deity of Christ and just label him a holy man, while Modalists may affirm the Son's deity, only as a temporary flesh body?
Unitarians deny the "Diety of Christ in essence not in function and we distinguish between the being of the Father and the being of the Son Modalism throws them all together.
Modalism denies distinction but recognizes deity. Unitarianism denies deity but recognizes distinction.
@@acevirtueson997 Thank you very well put.
The cross-ex shows that Dr. Brown doesn’t understand some of Dr. Tuggy’s argumentation. For example, I think Hebrews 1:10-12 is somewhat of a doxology back to the Father (in lights of “your God” in 1:9), but Dr. Tuggy makes a good point on how NT authors take OT verses and apply new meaning to them, by the Holy Spirit.
Don't know what to, christian for 19 years and always heard about the trinity or wanted to hear. Now heard this week about the oneness .
Oneness pentecoastalism is not what the Bible teaches. Jesus praying to the Father in the Garden of Gethsemanae disproves that God is 1 person. God is 3 selfs in 1 power and essence
Wow, I thought Oneness advocates had exegetical issues until I heard Tuggy. I've never once got a revelation of Tuggy's points ever while reading/studying Holy Writ. Majority (I'm guessing 99.9%) of New Testament scholars/exegetes hold to a Non Unitarian view. Why is that? There's only ONE Holy Spirit who reveals what HE wrote!
@Saint Belligerant haha what... Why, as a Christian would one ignore the full revelation that we are shown in Jesus Christ?!
@Saint Belligerant nope, but we received the full revelation of God's complex unity in Jesus :)
@Saint Belligerant God became a man while simultaneously filling the universe invisibly, and is able to send Himself as Son and as Holy Spirit, who are shown as Him, yet distinct (one God in three persons, which people don't like because they cannot understand- yet how can we fully understand an infinite God?)
And when we are told God is love, it shows that He must have existed always in three persons, because love cannot exist with one person, but between more than one. Yet this does not change His oneness. It is not possible to understand fully, as expected, but the scriptures taken as a whoke show this.
@Saint Belligerant nope, I haven't read it very closely and fervently for the last 15 years at all...Ahem.
Truth is not determined by the majority but BOOK CHAPTER VERSE.
Dr.tuggy teaching wrong doctrine, Jesus is God,
If Jesus is God, then who is the son of God/Jesus?
God so loved the world that he sent Jesus (God) into the World ( man had been corrupted with sin). God creates a plan to mankind. Satan was sentenced and told that because he had tempted woman to sin, through a woman’s seed God would crush him. Woman doesn’t have a seed so this references a child born of a virgin. Through Gods chosen people (plan) The redeemer, messiah would come to redeem us. The Law was given and God resided with his chosen. The law, the priest and the temple as a guide an a schoolmaster. Knowing the beginning from the end and vice Vera God new that no one man could uphold the law. Sacrifice had to made for mans sin until the redeemer. God was putting in place a way for man to choose him over themselves. Jesus putting his Deity aside was placed in the womb of Mary by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit. ( the Holy Spirit also over shadowed the babtism of the earth and the babtism of Jesus. ) Jesus was born into the world without the human genealogy of mankind. Jesus will become an unblemished lamb who will not squirm on the alter (the cross). Abraham and his son was a glimpse of the future. Jesus being God choosing to lay his Godhood aside to fulfill the perfect law and will become a sweet fragrance to God the Father and will satisfy all mans sins, past present and future. If however, you accept who Jesus is, why he came, and repenting and resting your salvation in his hands accepting his sacrifice and his taking your place on the cross. For the wages of sin is death. God is so Holy he cannot look at sin. Jesus knew this the night he was betrayed. He cruised out I thirst ( not for water) for all eternity The triune God , perfect love has been together. God the father looked away from him while he bore our sins (my God, My God why have you forsaken me) then he gave up his Spirit). Because he never sinned, never failed the law, Death had no hold on him) he resurrected to the right hand of the Father. When Steven was stoned he seen the Glory of God and Jesus at the right hand. Steven seen Gods glory because Jesus is the resurrection and the life. ( he told the thief, today you will be with me in paradise). Genesis, “ let us make man in our image. The whole bible reads like this and tons more. Anyone who can’t see the word of God plainly is blinded by sin and heresy. It reads out so a child or a dim minded person can understand it, because it is God Breathed. God did not give us a final Bible that would be tainted. Mere man cannot thwart the plans of the Almighty God. Humble yourselves and kneel before a wonderful and mighty God who loved you so much that he gave his son to die in our place, that in the name of Jesus, we may have everlasting life. To be allowed to know all the mysteries of why he is and to behold a being so huge and powerful that we in our finite minds were before unable to comprehend.
So Tuggy thinks that the true nature of God is only clarified to dedicated scholars? Hmmmm
Wow! Just diving into this debate and the opening statement of the Unitarian felt like nails on a chalkboard, given all of the missed scripture that refutes those very arguments that were made.
Then further isolating a few verses or philosophical points and forcing a boatload of rhetoric through that filter, something he claimed the trinitarian must do, there were so many issues with that reading of scripture that it's a wonder someone could spend a decade studying and come to that conclusion - missing the boat completely.
Juxtapose that with the immediate, clear, obvious and powerful scriptural refutation that proves several key assumptions by the Unitarian are indeed false, as wholly denied and invalidated by scripture, itself.. and right out of the gate, Dr. Brown is demolishing the degradation of Christ, the Messiah, (Immanuel, which literally means "God with us",) for a much more consistent, biblical reading of the text, taking ALL of scripture into account.
Dr Brown, of 1 John 5:7, the earliest evidence that this was extant was written by Cyprian in 250: The Lord says, “I and the Father are one.” And, again, it is written of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit: “And these three are one.” "Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.423. Surely he had access to even the original manuscripts to check!
Then Prescillian, Idacious Clarus, Athanasius, Aurelius Augustine, the Council of Carthage and more used it!
The Old Syriac 170 AD Old Latin 200 AD included 1 John 5:7, preceding the earliest Greek manuscript it is in, in the 10th century by 700 years or so.
Dr Brown, 1 John 5:7 surely belongs in the bible!
1:33
Aye we can argue all day but if you think Jesus is created or eternal is basically the main question.
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made
1) John 1:3 doesn't require "eternality"
2) Go read 2 or 3 translations of John 1:1-3 prior to the KJV1611. They say "Through *it* all things were made; without *it* nothing was made that has been made."
droptozro “all things”....
@@Seraphoverpheonix "...were made by it..." Gen 1, "God *said*..." Simple. Go read Proverbs 8 to get an idea of how a word like "Wisdom" can sound like a real person in Hebrew literature even though it's clearly not. As Tuggy mentioned--you're reading this with modern 2019 glasses instead of their own time period and literature.
droptozro there is no translation that refers Jesus as “it”. The whole content is that Jesus created everything. Without him, nothing was made... You should just accept that.
@@Seraphoverpheonix ....it doesn't say "Jesus" in John 1:3. It says "word" in John 1:1-2--that's a patent mis-reading. You should just accept that. And then go learn Greek to learn why earlier translations did translate "houtos" and "autos" as "it" instead of "him." You're just basing your views on biased translations instead of seeing legitimate other possibilities.
He's Oneness. He denies the Deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit. False religion.
Oneness believes in the deity of Christ, while trinitarians actually have distinctions between Christ and God. Oneness and Unitarianism are really the only two logically consistent positions.
@@ABC123jd Trinitarians do not make a distinction between Christ and God. Christ is one Person in the Being of God just like the Father and the Holy Spirit. Oneness and Unitarianism are not consistent with Scripture so are false.
@@deniseadkins2901 Is God tripersonal? Is Jesus tripersonal? If you get two different answers, then there's at least one difference between Jesus and God on your view.
No dummy it is the Son of the Living God, the word of God who became flesh, not a man who became God. Get yuh facts right.
I think dale tuggy is secretly lgbtq
agama aneh yang bahkan sampai disembah di jadikan tuhan tapi tidak satupun aturan nya di ikuti seperti yesus puasa,sholat,di sunat dll, tapi malah mengikuti ajaran paulus harus nya menyembah paulus bukan yesus
Great job Dr. Brown, I definitely appreciate your consistency and how you continued to stay true to the scripture. You always pointed back to the text. Praise God
Isaac Sepulveda look into pastor Gino Jennings on the trinity
@Saint Belligerant give an example
@Saint Belligerant ?
Flawless victory for brother Michael Brown. Very good job. Well done
Trinity Apologetics exactly
Look into pastor Gino Jennings on the trinity
@@carlosprieto5970 I took your advice and looked at his video and why he denies the trinity. Need to bleach my brain now. Friendly tip: If you want to get people to deny the trinity, you may want to send them to someone besides Jennings. At any rate, best to you, Carlos, and God bless.
😆 I had a flashback to my childhood days of Mortal Kombat
carlos prieto
Gino Jennings is horrible in his explanation of the trinity
Dr. Brown is biblically correct in all points! Revelation 1:8 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Dr Brown destroyed his arguments
I enjoyed the debate immensely. Thanks for showing grace, Dr. Brown, and faithfully representing Our Lord and Savior, Jesus.
Did Tuggy just deny the incarnation? And used "intertestemental literature to do so? minute 51-52. So he has absolutely no reason to claim Christ as Lord and Savior. SMH.
I think I have to memorize Dr. Brown opening speech. That was strong.
Dr brown ur awesome man
How do you grieve the Holy Spirit unless it’s a person?
Because the Father's spirit can be talked about in personal ways since it's literally the spirit of the Father, who is a person. Just like man's spirit can be talked about in personal ways, but it's not literally a separate person from the man.
This guy has such a weak argument that it was painful to hear 🤦🏽♂️. May the God of Israel, YHWH (Yeshua) reveal himself to this guy.
"May the God of Israel, YHWH (Yeshua) reveal himself to this guy." - You
"13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go" - Peter, Acts 3:13
The God of Israel is the God *of* Jesus, and there's plenty more clear verses where that comes from without confusion from the likes of Brown.
@Humberto Gutiérrez Yeshua cannot be the God of Israel if the God of Israel is his God (Mic 5:4, Jn 20:17, Eph 1:17, Rev 3:12). Furthermore, Jesus is never called "YHVH." Interestingly enough, the only man to call himself YHVH God is Moses in Deuteronomy 29:6 when he is speaking as God as God's agent.
Great job Dr Brown! I never understand why people dont get the Triunity
Μελετητής ΒGarsee look into pastor Gino Jennings on the trinity
@@carlosprieto5970 apostle Jennings dont have the trinty right hes oneness
If Jesus was just a mere simple man, according to Unitarians. What's their logical explanation for Jesus's miraculous abilities? Curing various illnesses, restoring eyesight, raising up his brother from the dead. Including walking on the sea. Does a simple human being have these divine abilities? Even the demons acknowledged Jesus divinity in Luke 4:41.
They would say that he was performing them entirely by the power of God as a prophet, with no power of his own.
Even though that's the disproved by the fact that people were surprised at his miracles and how he spoke, as if they were categorically different from the prophets of older times.
To give some examples of this, Christ freely added to the words of the Bible: he's either YHWH or a major heretic. When he speaks on behalf of YHWH, even when giving prophecy of the future, he never says "thus saith YHWH", nor does the New Testament ever use the language of "and the word came to him" or "the word went out". Moses was afraid to speak to the rock as he was commanded because he didn't think it would work and so he chose to strike it; Christ spoke to the Creation and stopped an entire storm (and the Disciples said something like (paraphrase): "Who is this man that even nature listens to his words?").
And in fact, speaking of Moses being commanded to act, Yeshua is NEVER commanded by God to ever do anything prophet-like. There's no record of it. He simply does it in full authority and knowledge as if he is actually YHWH himself and as if the power belonged to him.
The list could probably go on with examples that disprove their potential response, so I'm gonna stop here. Just offering some ammo against what they're likely going to say.
Acts 2:¶Ye men of Israel, hear these words; 👉👉Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God👈👈 among you 👉👉by miracles and wonders and signs, 👈👈 which 👉👉God did by him👈👈 in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Matthew 12:28 28But if I cast out devils👉👉 by the Spirit of God👈👈, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Corinthians 5:19 KJV -
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Luke 7 14And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.15And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother16¶And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, 👉That a great prophet is risen up among us; 👈and, That 👉God hath visited his people.👈
This is how to understand God has visited his people
When God raises up Saviours and deliverers or sends prosperity Ruth 1:6 6 Then she arose with her daughters in law, that she might return from the country of Moab: for she had heard in the country of Moab how that 👉👉the LORD had visited his people in giving them bread.👈👈. Genesis 21:1¶And 👉👉the LORD visited Sarah 👈👈as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken.2For 👉Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son 👈in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.Genesis Genesis 50:24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and 👉👉God will surely visit you, 👈👈and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Tuggy repeatedly says "look at the reason they worshipped the exalted man".
First of all, this is a really stupid point because the worship is still the same regardless. It doesn't matter what the reason given for the worship is: the question is, _why is the worship the _*_same_*_ worship_ that is given to the Father? Let me submit, that the Old Testament (which was the only Scripture that the Apostles had orginally) provides an answer that actually turns Tuggy's point against him:
Isaiah 43:11 says: "I, yes I, am YHWH, and there is no Savior but Me."
Therefore, according to Scripture, Christ is YHWH. Therefore, Christ receives the same worship because he IS the same God. When you use Scripture to interpret Scripture, conjecture is always demolished.
@Izzy Izzerton The worship given to the Father (i.e. God) is not the same worship given to Jesus. Jesus is worshipped as God's anointed king, not God. Furthermore, the Hebrew word used in Isaiah 43:11 is "מוֹשִֽׁיעַ" ("deliverer" or "savior"). Yet we find this exact same term used in regards to other men besides Jesus as it is written: "And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer (מוֹשִֽׁיעַ) to the children of Israel, who saved them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother" (Judges 3:9). This does not contradict the statement in Isaiah 43:11 since God is the only true source of deliverence and it is used of Othniel in a secondary sense. This same principle applies to Jesus.
@@nb3500 To quote myself in response to someone else who tried to use this same fallacious reasoning:
"You miss the point.
Nobody worshipped Moses (especially not as YHWH) because he saved Israel from Egypt, yet Tuggy continually stresses that the reasoning for Christ's worship (and as YHWH, no less) is because he saved Israel and the world from He Who Holds the Power Over Death. So why was Yeshua worshipped as Savior and God but Moses wasn't?
If you're having trouble, simply re-read the above-quoted Scripture in the context of why it's being given as an argument instead of ripping it out of the context of the topic."
As far as saying they aren't worshipped the same because Christ is worshipped as God's anointed king, the above point disproves that, so you can't just argue from denial.
@@blanktrigger8863 The act of being a savior is simply a prerogative of being someone who God has chosen. There is a difference between worshipping someone for being appointed as a savior by God and worshipping God for being the source of saviorhood.
@@nb3500 That's a very weak argument that again denies context. Christ was worshipped as Savior and God, Moses wasn't (nor was any other figure). Why did this happen?
You're trying to generalize something specific without acknowledging that what happened defies the general: this is illogical.
@@blanktrigger8863 And you're using subjective reasoning. There is no where in Scripture where it says Jesus was worshipped for being savior and God. You're simply defining "worship" differently when it's used of Jesus compared to all other men whom Scripture says were worshipped.
Of course Jesus had a physical body and a spirit. It says he "gave up the ghost" in Mark 15: 37-39, Luke 23: 46, John 19: 30
That refers to his breath, you stop breathing when you die. Men are living souls because God gave them breath. Gen 2:7 Basic biblical foundations have been disrupted by Greek philosophy which has highly infiltrated modern professing Christianity.
Hebrews 1 “3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. “
As a human, Jesus is said to be in the likeness of God and Gods nature. Also, through the Son, all creation came into existence and is held by him.
But you can’t be human and hold all creation together. Humans don’t have that power. And that’s just creation. To contain the glory of God? 1 Kings 8: 27 “But will God indeed dwell upon the earth? Even Heaven, the Highest Heaven, cannot contain you, much less this temple I have built.” Can a human walk on the sun, or hold the sun in their hands? The sun is just one in a universe filled with stars! And yet, the heavens/space can easily contain them all. Just to put Gods radiant glory into perspective. The heavens can’t contain his glory! How much less can a human body contain his glory! God’s nature in infinitely bigger than creation! So believers of Jesus as God are trying to tell us that God/his nature was in Jesus as a man. Even in Heaven, his heavenly body couldn’t contain Gods nature! Do you see the problem of Jesus being the representation of God? God literally can’t be contained in any form! God is beyond creation.
~02:15:20 mm. YHWH is the ONLY Savior. Hard to get around this, and I would not dare try it. It doesn't get any more plain than that.
YHWH is the source of Salvation Yes !! He is our Great Saviour but he also sends others to be saviours even his promised davidic messiah Nehemiah 9:27
Therefore you gave them into the hand of their enemies, who made them suffer. And in the time of their suffering they cried out to you and you heard them from heaven, and according to your great mercies you gave them saviors who saved them from the hand of their enemies. Obadiah 1:21 Saviors shall go up to Mount Zion to rule Mount Esau, and the kingdom shall be the LORD’s. Luke 2:11-14 (ESV)
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Jasion Sail
“and his name shall be Emanuel, God with us”
Yes as God was with Israel and sent the promised Messiah the promised prophet Deuteronomy 18:18 who would speak Gods words not his own and who would rule as Davidic king on the throne of David luke 1 30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God.31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name 👉👉JESUS.👈👈
32He shall be great, and 👉shall be called the Son of the Highest:👈 and the👉👉 Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:👈👈 This has yet to be fulfilled 👉Hosea 3:5 KJV - 5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and 👉seek the LORD their God, 👈and 👉David their king;👈 and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days. The Davidic Messiah is not God but will rule by Gods authority.
Isaiah 11 KJV - 1 And there shall come forth a 👉rod out of the stem of Jesse👈, and a 👉Branch shall grow out of his roots:👈
2 And 👉the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him,👈 the 👉spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge👈 and 👉👉of the fear of the LORD;👈👈 Jesus Christ is that promised branch who God empowered with wisdom, counsel, might, and the fear of the Lord.
@Carole Wilson The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 43:11 is "מוֹשִֽׁיעַ" ("deliverer" or "savior") yet we find this exact same term used in regards to other men besides Jesus as it is written: "And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer (מוֹשִֽׁיעַ) to the children of Israel, who saved them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother" (Judges 3:9). This does not contradict the statement in Isaiah 43:11 since God is the only true source of deliverence and it is used of Othniel in a secondary sense. This same principle applies to Jesus.
@@brentholladay3113 The more literal translation of Immanuel is "with us is God" or it would be more comfortably translated into English as "God is with us." We find this same exact word used in Isaiah 8:10 which says: "Take counsel together, and it shall be brought to nought; Speak the word, and it shall not stand; For *God is with us [Immanuel]."* But read Proverbs chapter 30 verse 1:
"The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto *Ithiel,* even unto *Ithiel* and Ucal,"
The name "IthiEL" in Hebrew actually means "with me is God." Of course, the women who named her child that did not think he was God. But in regards to the name "Immanuel" what it means is that God is with us in the King Messiah. Meaning that God is with us in the sense that He has provided His chosen King as a comforter. If I say for example "may God be with you" what I obviously mean is that may God comfort you and bring you peace.
So when Scripture doesn't back Unitarianism, blame it on the translators? That says it all.
If you don't understand the difficulties in translating Greek to English without perfect equivalencies and normal bias, you're best off keeping your mouth quiet no matter which position you believe in the debate.
@Tony Parry But that is usually the issue. Just look at the way trinitarians translate "ego eimi" when it's used by Jesus is John 8:58 and when it's used by the blind man in John 9:9. And then compare the way trinitarians translate the word "el" when it's used for Jesus in Isaiah 9:6 and when the word "el" is used for the king of Babylon in Ezekiel 31:11.
Tuggy has blatantly called the Old Testament prophets and New Testament apostles a liar which is blasphemous but Dr. Dale has to remember, he is a liar because a liar is anyone who denies Jesus Christ as Lord and receive not his testimony he reveal from his father.
Hi Dr Brown. What do you think about Justin Martyr's view of Jesus and the Father being like a candle lighting another candlestick. There are 2 lights of the same substance/nature and power. The power of the Father is not diminished after Jesus proceeded from Him. The same analogy goes for the Holy Spirit. Is that exegesis of the Trinity true.??? Thanks
that would mean god the father created 2 other gods
@@ilj3168 Unless, they proceed from God the Father from all Eternity, not as an act of will but out of necessity, that God's essence is that
@@nthdegree1269 , yes agree father /son /holy spirit share divine essence , but analogy of father being like candle lighting another candlestick not correct
@@ilj3168 I see what you're saying and you are right. I suppose analogies were difficult especially early in the life of the church.
Dr. Tuggy sounds like the type of guy who bases his theology on just studying the Bible only in English. Dr. Michael Brown uses scripture with the understanding of Greek and Hebrew.
Which helped him how in this debate?
Dr. Brown`s answers more consistent é credible.
I'd believe in the Jesus Only Oneness doctrine before I'd Dr. Tuggy's ideology.
You already do if you think that Jesus is the same as his God. If you don't, then you're a unitarian.
Dr. Tuggy is master of non sequitur and illogical 😂
Says the one who believes Jesus is God and also not God, that God is tripersonal and also not tripersonal, that Jesus is the same as the one God but also different from the one God.
Tugging basically takes things at face value and doesn’t want to look any deeper. If he really wants to be a unitarian, he has to deny the New Testament if he were intellectually honest.
Isn't that the way you're supposed to read the Bible. Only deceivers give long, rambling answers to thwart the plain reading of a verse.
Wow, it's very obvious what you're doing, Dr. Tuggy. You've formed your own belief and are twisting scripture to support it. Your Genesis 1:26 argument is a perfect example of this. You need to use more scripture to make your point. Not third party authors. Scripture is all that matters. And specific scripture. Not John says or didn't say, Peter says or didn't say, etc. You're playing with fire sir....
God is one and only one, The holy YHWH, who has revealed itself or herself or himself (but simply speaking, himself) in three ways to the human understanding, The one true Lord God , YHWH, Our Holy Father, the one true Lord God, YHWH, The Son the word, Jesus Christ, the one true Lord God, YHWH, The Holy Spirit.
Well done Dr. Brown. You did an excellent job. I find it dishonest that Tuggy kept trying to make you out to be a Modelist when you clearly stated and proved that wasn’t your position but he continues to strawman you after you clarified.
I wonder what Tuggy would say about Genesis 19:24. How is their 2 LORDS in the verse? 🤔
24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven.
Genesis 19:24 | ESV
All you have to do to be correct with doctrine is ALWAYS take the scripture as a whole.
Notice how Tuggy's arguments are mostly questions. Why is the holy spirit not worshiped, etc. Brown steps up and just buries unitarianism with nothing but a barage of scriptures.
He’s not answering Browns question he’s grandstanding his time to preach instead of answer
My only real issue with Tuggy aside from his beliefs is that he seems very convinced hes the only person to ever understand what the difference between sabellianism, modalism and social trinitarianism is.
Jesus Christ is Lord even of the Sabbath Day, which no mere human or creature in all creation can claim that title for himself unless he is God.
I feel like it could be asked if Jesus is not God how does his sacrifice mean anything eternal?
Really Dr Tuggy is in error. He sure is.
Everlast Thomas look into pastor Gino Jennings on the trinity
Also, when he said that Hebrews is setting up an exalted man because "why would he need to argue that Christ is higher than the angels": Actually, the purpose of Hebrews 1 seems to be an argument against the heretical belief that Christ was an angel himself. As the text says: "To which of the angels has 'x thing' thing been said?"
If, like, Dr. Brown, you understand the Jewish idea of the Memra (the Word) that existed in the Targumim at that time, then you know that one of the possible identities given to the Memra was Metatron, who was an angel. This was a distinctly Jewish idea and it explains why this heresy appears in a Jewish population (as the epistle was to the Hebrews) instead of a Gentile one.
Since the Jews already had this concept in their minds, they likely had a circulating heresy that Christ was the angel Metatron (who was also theorized to be the angel of YHWH if I'm not mistaken, as the angel of YHWH was viewed as the Memra-manifest). Hebrews 1 is therefore directly refuting any such notion and it does so in several ways: 1) It states that Christ is pre-existent; 2) It repeats the doctrine of abasement, which appears in Paul's earlier epistles, thus establishing that Christ is actually YHWH-incarnate; 3) It lists certain privileges/duties/offices from the Old Testament that were never given to angels.
Tuggy, however, clearly doesn't know about the Memra because he assumes that the Logos language was stolen from the Gnostics. This means that as much as he likes to stress context, including extra-biblical context, he's more ignorant than his arrogance lets on.
The most ridiculous statement in Christianity is:" god died. "
1 Tim. 6: 16. Yahweh ALONE has immortality .
Immortality CANNOT DIE.
Yahweh's literal genetic SON Yahshua DIED.
Yahshua received the second death. Rev. 20: 14- 15.
The second death is SOUL out of existence. Ezekiel . 18: 4 and 20.
Yahshua was out of existence for 39 hours according to Moses law.
3PM on the 6TH day to 6 AM on the first day of the week.
3 hours on the preparation day + 24 hours on the Sabbath + 12 hours on the first day of the week. 3 + 24 + 12 = 39 hours.
Eccl. 9: 5- 6. The living KNOW that they will DIE, But the DEAD KNOW NOTHING."
Job. 14: 7- 15. Job knew he was going to his GRAVE and will be raised from the dead in the resurrection on judgement day.
May Yahweh give you your hearts desire.
Heb. 12: 14.
Bless you
I gotta say, while I disagree with Dr Tuggy's perspective, I respect his cool and calm demeanor.
GlinTrue Tug was crass Brown was class
What is the difference between Modalists and Unitarians?
Modalists believe Jesus is God, Unitarians do not
Brother Dr. Michael Brown is an awesome brother in the Lord Jesus. Christ. He is a true man of God. Also, Another Awesome brother in the Lord Jesus Christ is brother Sam Shamoun, he is a true of man of God as well. Many awesome brothers in the Lord Jeus Christ. Brother wood, Brother Rogers, brother Malone, and Brother white, etc. If you're Unitarian and willing to listen, then check out these brother's, they have TH-cam channel's. God bless you in Jesus Christ's All Mighty Holy Name.
The LORD our God Jesus Christ is our Heavenly Father and there is no other God beside him.
Jesus Christ is the one and only God, our Father, the Almighty.
Jesus Christ is the First and the Last and there was no God formed before him, neither shall there be any after him.
Jesus Christ is the Everlasting Father.
Jesus is the LORD.
He reads well. Almost as good as our President. (2021)
I believe in one God but I have no problem giving Glory, Worship, Godly Authority, the One Holy Name to another creature and Calling him LORD and God - Mr. Tuggy
Saint Belligerant and Jesus is LORD (Yahweh = Adonai = Kurios = Jesus)
@Saint Belligerant If you read what the bible said it wouldn't lead to heresy:
Isaiah 40: 3 - "A voice of one calling: “Prepare the way for the LORD (YHWH) in the wilderness..."
Mark 1: 3.“A voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord (Kuriou), make straight paths for Him.’” 4. John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance"
These are just facts.
@Saint Belligerant Mark applies Isaiah 40: 3 to Jesus; this is irrefutable, just read it for yourself:
"A voice of one calling: "In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God"
@Saint Belligerant
John the Baptist was the voice calling in the Wilderness; he says so himself:
“ _I am the voice_ of _one_ calling in the wilderness,l ‘Make straight the way for the Lord (kuriou).’
Mark 1: 2 is about John the Baptist:
I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way”
Which is from Malachi 3: 1
"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord [adon], whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, he is coming," says the Lord [YHWH] of hosts.
Saint Belligerant
Adonai is the plural of Adon. I just paste it from a site. Malachi says He will come to His temple. It’s the temple of YHWH ergo Jesus is YHWH
This brand of Unitarianism is a mix of Pentecostal Oneness/Jehovah's Witnesses & a bunch of other isms.
It's just the straightforward reading of scripture. The one true God is the Father, and Jesus is a man who was sent by God.
I suggest that all your viewers and your self look into pastor Gino Jennings on the trinity
@Saint Belligerant if we define God being a human in nature...then yes, I suppose that would stand. I'm willing to bet, however, that God is a unique and only category of being...definitely not a human being.
@@Mr_A1-37 Jesus is 100% God and 100% man, but God is not human. He is simply incarnate. It is hard to understand- in fact that is why it is the mystery of the incarnation! We simply cannot fully understand our infinite God...
IMO, the concept of the Trinity is difficult to explain. It is also something we take on Faith. Some people just can't see their way to understand it whether they weren't brought up that way or if they are blinded to the truth. We as humans can never expect to understand the full nature of God. But others it seems, they don't even try, through prayer, the study of the Scripture and such.
If the Bible denies the trinity why should we uphold it? If Jesus is God why did the Bible say he never sits on the Throne of Heaven? There is one Throne in Heaven and only God himself every sits on it. Acts 7:56, Hebrews 1:3, Mark 16:19.
If Jesus is God why does John 14:6 even exist? Why would Jesus need to be the door to God if he himself is God?
Jesus said multiple times he isn't God. He said he was commanded by the Father. He said the Father was greater than him. He said he received power from the Father. If Jesus is God why would he need to get his power from someone else?
The fact is you are the person you claim doesn't have understanding. You argue for the Trinity with a closed mind and heart because your were taught that. But the Bible plainly and openly DOESN'T teach that.
@@TheBluegoatman There are three persons in the Trinity. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Father and the Holy Spirit is neither. Christ is God in the flesh. The books of Colossians and Philippians backs this up.
@@deniseadkins2901 Christ is God's representative in the flesh. If Jesus is God why does he have to draw power from the Father? If Jesus is God who is the being seated on the Throne of Heaven in Acts 7:56?
@@TheBluegoatman You really don't understand the Trinity, do you? Look it up. It's an interesting read. Start in Genesis 1. Pay attention in John 1 and Philippians 2.
@@deniseadkins2901 actually I have studied at length. That's why I know according to the Bible it isn't true. Jesus says more about not being God than he does accept worship. Jesus is divine. But he was given his divinity by the Father in Daniel chapter 7. Followed by Hebrews 1:4. It literally says that Jesus obtained a more excellent name by inheritance. The funny thing is that you refuse to answer a simple question. I think you can't so you ignore it. Who is seated on the Throne of Heaven in Acts 7:56? Who is seated on the Throne in Mark 16:19? Who is seated on the Throne in Hebrews 1:3? Who is seated on the Throne in Revelation 5:7? Who is seated on the Throne in Daniel 7:9?
The Bible literally goes against what you believe and instead of believing what the Bible says you just keep believing what someone else taught you. Why is it so easy for your to just ignore what the Bible says?
Jesus Christ Himself said the Father was greater than he. Jesus said he could do NOTHING without the Father. None of these things says Jesus is God. Go ahead and ignore the Bible. Why you would, I don't know, but so many people do.
I really thought Dr Tuggy would do better considering people saying Dr White is afraid to debate him. Really disappointed.
Quick note: Kevin, Dr. White is NOT afraid to debate him. He is NOT INTERESTED in debating him. God bless!
@@LFTV I agree with you. I just thought, considering his reputation, he'd really bring more to the table. I was being a bit sarcastic because I don't for a minute believe Dr White is afraid to debate anyone