I completely understand why you feel so heartbroken. We believed he was honest and trustworthy. It has taught me to open my own Bible and look to the Lord and not prophets. Gods word is true, His prophets don’t lie. Thank you for opening our eyes to the truth.
People choose their relationships based on what good or bad others have done... God doesn't choose that way....God doesn't choose you based on anything good or bad that you have done.... That's why critics are just ignorant....when they scorn the ministries of the many Pentecostal preachers the past 100 years by bringing up their faults or mistakes.... A man having faults or mistakes has nothing to do with the choosing of God... That's why critics are just ignorant when they try and base Christianity solely on what good or bad that a person has done
@@dieselcowboy777 that’s not what’s happening at all. These aren’t good men making mistakes, these are heretics, blasphemers, and charlatans. And I’m not some outside critic. I grew in the charismatic movement. My great grandfather was one of the most influential figures in the early Pentecostal movement and over Branham. They’ve had a whole episode on him, but I’m not giving his name. Repent of the false gospel of charismatics and believe the true gospel and what Christianity really is.
Another great episode John and Charles! Always enjoy what you guys bring to light. Was born and raised in the message, left 15 years ago. I love hearing the real history behind what we were raised to believe. Keep up the good work, the podcasts never seem long enough!
You are just another jealous person like john Collins who hate that foolish virgins don't have to obey or be obedient to all the commandments and conduct of living that the wise virgins and bride do. The bride has a much higher calling than the foolish virgins
My brother Charles, I can relate to your conflicting feelings about Braham. Mind you, my exposure to him was at best peripheral, from second-hand accounts, with some sparse (maybe one or 2) recordings, sound bites, and pictures, but I still am finding it hard to despise him at this point in my, "reality journey"! To add to the mix, I'm a Black man, but so many ministers, including my pastors (a husband and wife team, both pastors in their own right, not just in name only, and an interracial couple to boot! Lol!), have held him in such high regard, for so long. It is a tough, "matrix", to punch out of. Nevertheless, truth is paramount! Truth liberates us, while lies and deception hold us in captivity.
Between Portugal and Italy, must be the time he went to Lausanne, Switzerland. My sister (a Christian) attended his meeting. Thereafter, for years, she had nothing good to say about him. I remember her telling me that he stopped his sermon to say "there is someone here who is not accepting my message" or words to that effect, and she felt he was speaking about her.
Branham also said he went to Venezuela. A lot of people didn't pick up on the quick blurb where he mentions it. I asked Billy Paul once if William Branham had went to south America, he said no he did not.
I had to laugh and nod over the whole outdoors -y, woodsman thing. Among my relatives who were Branhamites, they held anyone in contempt who weren't into huntin', fishin', n shootin'! It was palpable contempt.
I live in PHX AZ and i was raised in this message and always felt something was off. I have listened to every episode and my heart is so sad to learn all of this. My whole family is stuck in this message. I wish there was a way to approach this with them with out anger and bitterness. My faith in god is solid and i know who i am but so many people i know are blind.
Your faith is definitely not solid if you listen to these two liars trying to make you think inaccurate history and inaccurate historical records are more true than bro William branham... William branham had to correct both history and the historical records because of corrupt minded men like john and Charles
The last major mission trip my church took just before it pretty much ended was to thailand. They were going to go minister to missionaries. In a resort. Pretty much everybody came back with Gorgeous Tans and bags of stuff from high-end Department stores.
So many lies !!! A Christian who knows and loves his Saviour wouldn't be able to even imagine to speak or even think the tiniest lies. Thank God for the Truth!! Let os all be eager students of the Word. He who seeks he will find.😊❤
Branham's South African tour needs to be seen in the context of the geopolitical occurrences of that era in the Union of South Africa. The Nationalists had recently won the election in 1948 and had started to really legislate their policy of Apartheid. In that mixed services would have most likely been almost impossible to organise and in certain circumstances illegal. Written permission would have been required from governmental agencies and most likely never given. KwaZulu Natal was the most liberal of the Apartheid provinces due to the nature of the large number of English speaking white people who didn't support the Apartheid policies. Branham's tour also needs to be seen in the context of the state religion being the Dutch Reformed Church which believed in holding separate meetings for each race. My great grandmother attended Branham's meetings, but never converted to his cult. I have, although, other family members who were Message cultists though and was almost drawn into the cult as a teen.
Great discussion. Just a quick re-looking. I'm going to number these to facilitate with the referencing: (1) Rhodesia's Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI) happened in 1965 under the leadership of Prime Minister Ian Smith; an independence of the same minority government from British rule (only the second one after the USA declared theirs (ours) in 1776 from British rule). (2) After UDI, Rhodesia became Zimbabwe-Rhodesia in 1978-79, under a puppet gvt. of Bishop Abel Muzorewa, and then it became Zimbabwe after the 1980 General elections. In our current language, Rhodesia's UDI may mean... "Forget it, we (the current Rhodesian Gvt.) are breaking away from you (British Gvt.) anyway, whatever this may mean..." This UDI brought up the first UN recognized global sanctions against a colonial government (the Ian Smith Rhodesian gvt).
This is so interesting. I was raised WOF and now I question people not the Word of God. I follow a teacher who showed a clip of a couple who have a ministry out of Texas they are talking to a friend who says God himself spoke to him and asked if he could send Gabriel the angel to him to discuss end times. Than I started to look into the Texas couple a angel visited them and laid down in there bed. And she did a teaching plauding William Branham wow what a rabbit hole. We sure need discernment.
Brothers, you are speaking about the necessity of being a hunter, an outdoorsman. This made me think of the Stronger Men Conferences. The only acceptable hobbies and activities for men have to be approved and manly. You know, chopping wood, homesteading, growing big beards.
What a great video, thank you both!! I, too, feel betrayed by WMB. When I was a teenager and had just joined the message I made two really horrible decisions, based on the teaching of WMB. Those decisions are still affecting my life and I'm 61 and have been out of the cult since 2004. We ruined our lives to practice what WMB preached while he did not practice what he preached. I thought at one time he was wrong, but sincerely wrong. To know now that he was a hypocrite, liar, conman, and fake does feel like a betrayal!
@@BC-qb2if That's a good question--my parents thought it was just a phase. I was one of those kids that wore blue jeans every day. I fell in love when I was 15 and he broke up with me when I was 16 and I just wanted to die--of course, after all I was a 16 year old! And I had done something I was really ashamed of and I was feeling very guilty. On top of those two things, I had that teenage angst thing in overdrive, just over the top miserable and making my whole family miserable in the process. I was incredibly unhappy in those years. My best friend was raised in the message. She went to public school and that's how we became friends. So one day, she started showing me stuff in the Bible that I had never heard before, even though I had to Baptist churches for years. it just all made sense (don't ask me why???) And it seemed like the answer to my problems and what I needed. So, to solve one problem, I jumped head first into a way bigger problem that I didn't extricate myself until I was 44. I've heard that people in the middle of transitions are vulnerable to cults and also very idealist people and teenagers are usually both. I was.
@@BC-qb2if The two horrible decisions was that I graduated from high school with a lot of academic honors but I didn't even think about college because of higher education is of the devil. The other one was I married an abuser because I was engaged to him and WMB said that you're married in God's eyes when you are engaged, so instead of breaking up with him I married him and was in that marriage for 22 years. It was really bad.
@@lesliewells1062 Did Branham's teaching or those representing them create a wedge between you and your parents that they didn't recognize? I might have had some family members who got swept up in the shepherding movement, a few of them still in its current iteration.
@@BC-qb2if The wedge was already there, but it did make it worse. We had such a bad relationship already. they didn't tell me not to marry this guy or to go to college, because they believed it was my decision, but I did know they didn't want me to make the decisions I made. They didn't realize I was in a cult. They thought I was in a really strict Christian church and that it was a phase and that I was only doing it because my best friend was doing it. I also didn't tell them why I was making these desc ions, that it was because of the church. I didn't want them to tell me I couldn't go to church or listen to tapes by WMB or read his books. I kept a lot of secrets. I don't know what would have happened if they had tried to stop me. If I would have run away or what. I wish they had tried to stop me. It makes me sad that I joined a cult and no one really realized it. But it might have made things even worse, my life, my relationship to my parents. Who knows. it was so long ago--pre-internet. It would have been hard for them to find much out at all. But still...who knows how it would have turned out, right?
In addition to WB's peculiar nature, I always reacted to how he could hunt just for fun, and then not even killing animals that could be used for food.
Ive decided to check if we have a 'The message' church here in nz and we have. Mt roskil Auckland. Wow after hearing your history its worrying to think they are established here. And yes they hve that notorious halo picture on their website
@LeavingtheMessage wow first time i ever heard of the message cult. I was searching out where the word of faith teaching came from and latter rain and the seeker friendly church
1:10:45 “… a lot of leaders have a mountain of dirt on each other”. Yep. Pearry Green had dirt on Sothmann and vice versa. Lee Vayle on Pearry Green and vice versa. Obviously Raymond Jackson on Pearry Green, Billy Paul etc (that open letter by Sarah alludes to this) Also, speculation on whether the tape boys had dirt on WMB, hence WMB giving them a pass over homosexuality. Not different from politics…. And we know how dirty that game is 😏
@@LoveCoffe56 take the time to listen to this testimony by Pearry Green. He had some things to say about Sothmann and Lee Vayle. th-cam.com/video/d4rU64wQpzk/w-d-xo.html Enjoy 😉
@@LoveCoffe56 I think after WMB died it was like when Alexander the Great had died… the battle between his generals vying for power, greed and control. Knives were out. This also went international. It’s staggering to have them even admitting to their warring tendencies. Sorry for a bit of the spoiler there but that’s what’s wrong with the leadership in the message in general. They learned from the best 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
The lies and deceit by john and Charles are staggering deceiving you to believe their fairy tales.... William branham had to correct history and correct the historical records because of corrupt minded men like john and Charles....creating their own fictional history
You guys are coming out of denial. Its a difficult process as we work through to allow truth to speak louder than what you were taught to believe. I chuckle a bit to watch John chuckle to cope or coverup how he feels. The fear trapping will go and your psyche will slot back in x
And what about Billy Graham? I’ve read some pretty shady stuff on him as well, but with a different style. He went with another group all together, but damage was done to many Christians in the name of the Catholic pope non the less
I'm looking forward to the info on Parham. He seems to be the "safe place" when discussing Charismatics/Pentecostalism. It may not turn the tide, but it will save a few people.
1:02:05 claims of visits to some, nonexistent graves and other shenanigans. Oh boy! Wait for it….. All together now… 😅😅😅😅😅 😂😂😂😂😂😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 😩😩😩😩😩😩 😭😭😭😭😭
I was told by a man who knew Graham schnelling personally and one reason schnelling pulled away from Branham was he knew Branham was lying. Apparently he approached Branham about issues with the baptism on spring street and the light appeared. He knew that it was all untrue and he told Branham to stop lying.
Bruce Hall knew Graham Snelling and Graham told Bruce about the famous baptism on Ohio river-he said “if we had 10 people we had a crowd”. There certainly weren’t a lot of people. Here’s Bruce Hall’s testimony, if you haven’t seen it already: th-cam.com/video/ac7HFNJUjvQ/w-d-xo.html Enjoy
@@brothercaleb no he mentions that bro Snelling would say if we had 100 people....we had a crowd... He didn't say 10.... Bro William branham stated himself that he does exaggerate
@@dieselcowboy777 I stand corrected. Yes, WMB admitted to exaggerating a lot. The problem is he never corrected his exaggerations. This is the point Graham Snelling was making-he should’ve repented before he died. Died a liar, unfortunately.
@@brothercaleb he don't have to correct his exaggerations....exaggerations are not errors....and exaggerations are not lies and don't need to be repented of
This information is blowing my mind!! Ern Baxter??? I don't want to believe it! He was a close associate of Derek Prince, whom at this point, I still respect!
How would you know, please tell me. I have listened to almost all the audios of Derick Prince, but don't remember coming across this name 'Ern Baxter'. Didn't know who William Branham was until Derick Prince mentioned him.
Rhodesia became Zimbabwe in 1981 after UDI. South Africa became fully democratic in 1994. Changes in South Africa started in the early 1970's and it took a long time for the voice of those wanting democracy to be heard and the changes to come about.
And when did South Africa stop being democratic? There are so many South Africans that flee from there. We have lots in NZ and AuS. There is even a white and a black South African in my cricket team. Everyone who cans just leaves
Have you ever seen the documentary American Gospel, Christ Alone? They show Todd White doing that trick, and it is a trick, and they show how it is done. It's another conman trick. You can probably find a on TH-cam showing how they do it.
The one leg shorter truck was a very common stage act of the era, wherein the hip shifted slightly made the leg seem shorter, and moving the hip made it “grow”. You can find videos on youtube of people expanding the trick. And yes, branham did this trick in his stage act.
@@LeavingtheMessage If I remember correctly, Derek Prince, left that type of ministry and moved on by himself. It was there he gained popularity and the money came rolling in. I was just wondering if it was this Branham bunch he and four others were involved in.
Beside the racial component it makes sense for him to go to the white people simply because of the financial aspect ? Although this trip probably also was a propaganda trip for his US based ministry ? Im just asking questions and trying to understand why he went there since it would also cost a lot. In this question lies a based opinion that he was not in it for the right reasons and probably money was the main factor for his ministry since i dont believe he believed in his own wrong teachings.. not every false teacher does since some are just deceived.
Durban's South Africa was his adopted hometown. He lived there for many, many years. It's actually where he began developing his peaceful resistance techniques which he would later take back to India.
54:44 “…so he keeps chasing this vision…” “For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, WAIT FOR IT; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.” -Habakkuk 2:3 It would seem that the scripture rather you wait for the vision… but not WMB… He HAD TO TRY make it happen - (ask Evan Mosley about buying a plane in order to make vision to come to pass … wink wink).
I am a bit confused. You mentioned Gandhi around minute 16. Gandhi is not a South African. He's Indian, from India. He was active in S. Africa for a number of years but later went back to India in 1915 and thereafter fought for India's independence. He was assassinated in India in January 1948.
Gandhi lived in Durban for many years, and he organized the South African civil Rights movement while he lived there. Large rallies were common during those years. Branham showed up in the aftermath of that, and his meetings were in a way a beneficiary of that history in Durban. It was the only city in which he was able to successfully have any sort of an interracial meeting. The only relevance Gandhi has to the story, is to explain how William Branham was able to have a large interracial meeting in Durban.
There were not a lot of "natives" that could speak English in the 1940's. Black people that did speak a "foreign" language spoke more Afrikaans than English up to around 1990. Durban was more English than Afrikaans among white people though.
Charles he was Mahatma Gandhi not Mohammad. Durban was multicultural due to it being the centre of the British hold in South Africa. The British encouraged movement from India to Africa and were not interested in racial purity, unlike the Afrikaaners.
It's actually Mohandas Gandhi in the official English translation. His name is transliterated to English in multiple different ways, depending on the English speaking region of the world in which you live. And it was actually very racial reasons that the British encouraged the Indians to migrate to South Africa. It's because they viewed the Indians as superior to the Africans, and generally believe them easier to control. Gandhi personally led the efforts to fight racial segregation and racial discrimination in Durban. He did not make it multicultural. But he certainly broke down the barriers that allowed large interracial meetings to take place.
Hi, Charles when did you visit Durban S.A. I am Indian born here in Durban and I am 68years old.Do you know anything about our racial division that existed in our country before 1994.Did you read the entire book of A prophet visits South Africa before you make those comments or allegations. I just want to bring to your attention as you do not know the evils of apartheid that existed in SA.prior to 1994.I worked on the Railroad in different departments for a Ticket examiner,Police department and finally a Station Manager until retirement in 2019.I was also detained under section 29 of the internal security act al because of my employment contract which during apartheid stated that i was a regular contract and my white countrpart was permanent. This led me to be being detained under section 29 of the internal security act.Concerning your comments of Brother William Branham is unfounded as in 1951 oppression laws were firmly enforced by them the english government. It was law then that the whites and non whites cannot be congregated to gether.That was in statutory law. My mother who does not follow the message is 90 years is a witness of the events that transpired at the Durban Greyville Racecourse in 1951.I am the only one in my entire family that am not ashmed of the son of man nor his words in this generation. ALL i say that Go have mercy on you and your friend .
hi, could you please preach a sermon in such a way somebody like a branhamist will not hate branham but love christ more than the way he or she does by branhams message. Am sorry today you are not preaching but giving some FbI/cia Report. Now what about your follwers? or church members?
You don't know why he may have worn those half shorts down to his knees because when traveling luggage many times get misplaced and he may have had to borrow something to wear or maybe his wife forgot to pack his hunting clothes Plus bro branham preached on customs in other cultures....customs plays a role too
The fact he never wore those anywhere else makes it obvious they didn't belong to him. It was something he must have needed to borrow from someone there for some reason.
Those are not shorts, they are half length pants. The prophet would not wear shorts. And you are here arguing with unbelievers again. And agreeing that the prophet wore shorts. You see how entertaining this unbelief has affected you? You are accusing the prophet of wearing shorts. You need to start pressing play on the right thing.
@@BillyPaulBranham i am not being accusatory in any way. I am explaining that life doesn't always happen according to plan and so bro branham may have had a reason to wear them because they definitely weren't part of his normal wardrobe...they were probably borrowed from someone else, not something he bought Can't you see you are focusing your negative perspective towards a fellow believer instead of contributing in a positive way?
@@BillyPaulBranham why don't you contribute in a positive way ....instead of acting like a negative Karen towards a fellow believer?? Quit being a negative Karen. All you are doing is being accusatory towards me so knock it off!!! Because all my comments are pro bro William branham
I completely understand why you feel so heartbroken. We believed he was honest and trustworthy. It has taught me to open my own Bible and look to the Lord and not prophets. Gods word is true, His prophets don’t lie. Thank you for opening our eyes to the truth.
“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
-Mark Twain.
Yes! The entire Pentecostal movement!
@@ritadyer9295 no that is the demons in rock and roll that john is motivated by want you to believe
People choose their relationships based on what good or bad others have done...
God doesn't choose that way....God doesn't choose you based on anything good or bad that you have done....
That's why critics are just ignorant....when they scorn the ministries of the many Pentecostal preachers the past 100 years by bringing up their faults or mistakes....
A man having faults or mistakes has nothing to do with the choosing of God...
That's why critics are just ignorant when they try and base Christianity solely on what good or bad that a person has done
@@dieselcowboy777 that’s not what’s happening at all. These aren’t good men making mistakes, these are heretics, blasphemers, and charlatans.
And I’m not some outside critic. I grew in the charismatic movement. My great grandfather was one of the most influential figures in the early Pentecostal movement and over Branham. They’ve had a whole episode on him, but I’m not giving his name.
Repent of the false gospel of charismatics and believe the true gospel and what Christianity really is.
@Gandalf the Grey no they are not heretics...these men are heretics speaking evil of these Pentecostal
The trinitarians are liars deceiving you
Another great episode John and Charles! Always enjoy what you guys bring to light. Was born and raised in the message, left 15 years ago. I love hearing the real history behind what we were raised to believe. Keep up the good work, the podcasts never seem long enough!
You are just another jealous person like john Collins who hate that foolish virgins don't have to obey or be obedient to all the commandments and conduct of living that the wise virgins and bride do. The bride has a much higher calling than the foolish virgins
WOW, what a eye opener….
Charles nailed it when he said, "it's like a stab in the heart" ❤
Wow another episode already! Last week flew by! My Mondays are now marked by this podcast series 👍
My brother Charles, I can relate to your conflicting feelings about Braham. Mind you, my exposure to him was at best peripheral, from second-hand accounts, with some sparse (maybe one or 2) recordings, sound bites, and pictures, but I still am finding it hard to despise him at this point in my, "reality journey"! To add to the mix, I'm a Black man, but so many ministers, including my pastors (a husband and wife team, both pastors in their own right, not just in name only, and an interracial couple to boot! Lol!), have held him in such high regard, for so long. It is a tough, "matrix", to punch out of. Nevertheless, truth is paramount! Truth liberates us, while lies and deception hold us in captivity.
Maybe reach out to them and show these exposure messages 😉
Looks like another exciting episode coming 🎉🎉🎉
Looks like another carnal minded false narrative...
Between Portugal and Italy, must be the time he went to Lausanne, Switzerland. My sister (a Christian) attended his meeting. Thereafter, for years, she had nothing good to say about him. I remember her telling me that he stopped his sermon to say "there is someone here who is not accepting my message" or words to that effect, and she felt he was speaking about her.
John, great explanation of Charles affection for Branham.
Branham also said he went to Venezuela. A lot of people didn't pick up on the quick blurb where he mentions it. I asked Billy Paul once if William Branham had went to south America, he said no he did not.
Oh boy! 🙄
I remember when he said that.
O, how did I miss this episode?! I'm from India.
Return of the "Scandal Skirt" still making me chuckle after the 1st mention 🤣
All I can say is “OUTSTANDING “
I had to laugh and nod over the whole outdoors -y, woodsman thing. Among my relatives who were Branhamites, they held anyone in contempt who weren't into huntin', fishin', n shootin'! It was palpable contempt.
I live in PHX AZ and i was raised in this message and always felt something was off. I have listened to every episode and my heart is so sad to learn all of this. My whole family is stuck in this message.
I wish there was a way to approach this with them with out anger and bitterness. My faith in god is solid and i know who i am but so many people i know are blind.
Your faith is definitely not solid if you listen to these two liars trying to make you think inaccurate history and inaccurate historical records are more true than bro William branham...
William branham had to correct both history and the historical records because of corrupt minded men like john and Charles
The last major mission trip my church took just before it pretty much ended was to thailand. They were going to go minister to missionaries. In a resort. Pretty much everybody came back with Gorgeous Tans and bags of stuff from high-end Department stores.
as well as Branham history - I have also learned today that Ghandi was in S Africa for 21 years
So many lies !!! A Christian who knows and loves his Saviour wouldn't be able to even imagine to speak or even think the tiniest lies.
Thank God for the Truth!!
Let os all be eager students of the Word. He who seeks he will find.😊❤
Branham's South African tour needs to be seen in the context of the geopolitical occurrences of that era in the Union of South Africa. The Nationalists had recently won the election in 1948 and had started to really legislate their policy of Apartheid. In that mixed services would have most likely been almost impossible to organise and in certain circumstances illegal. Written permission would have been required from governmental agencies and most likely never given. KwaZulu Natal was the most liberal of the Apartheid provinces due to the nature of the large number of English speaking white people who didn't support the Apartheid policies. Branham's tour also needs to be seen in the context of the state religion being the Dutch Reformed Church which believed in holding separate meetings for each race. My great grandmother attended Branham's meetings, but never converted to his cult. I have, although, other family members who were Message cultists though and was almost drawn into the cult as a teen.
✅ very interesting video
Great discussion. Just a quick re-looking. I'm going to number these to facilitate with the referencing:
(1) Rhodesia's Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI) happened in 1965 under the leadership of Prime Minister Ian Smith; an independence of the same minority government from British rule (only the second one after the USA declared theirs (ours) in 1776 from British rule). (2) After UDI, Rhodesia became Zimbabwe-Rhodesia in 1978-79, under a puppet gvt. of Bishop Abel Muzorewa, and then it became Zimbabwe after the 1980 General elections. In our current language, Rhodesia's UDI may mean... "Forget it, we (the current Rhodesian Gvt.) are breaking away from you (British Gvt.) anyway, whatever this may mean..." This UDI brought up the first UN recognized global sanctions against a colonial government (the Ian Smith Rhodesian gvt).
This is so interesting. I was raised WOF and now I question people not the Word of God. I follow a teacher who showed a clip of a couple who have a ministry out of Texas they are talking to a friend who says God himself spoke to him and asked if he could send Gabriel the angel to him to discuss end times. Than I started to look into the Texas couple a angel visited them and laid down in there bed. And she did a teaching plauding William Branham wow what a rabbit hole. We sure need discernment.
Brothers, you are speaking about the necessity of being a hunter, an outdoorsman. This made me think of the Stronger Men Conferences. The only acceptable hobbies and activities for men have to be approved and manly. You know, chopping wood, homesteading, growing big beards.
What a great video, thank you both!! I, too, feel betrayed by WMB. When I was a teenager and had just joined the message I made two really horrible decisions, based on the teaching of WMB. Those decisions are still affecting my life and I'm 61 and have been out of the cult since 2004. We ruined our lives to practice what WMB preached while he did not practice what he preached. I thought at one time he was wrong, but sincerely wrong. To know now that he was a hypocrite, liar, conman, and fake does feel like a betrayal!
What was the attraction to WMB and his message at age 16?
@@BC-qb2if That's a good question--my parents thought it was just a phase. I was one of those kids that wore blue jeans every day. I fell in love when I was 15 and he broke up with me when I was 16 and I just wanted to die--of course, after all I was a 16 year old! And I had done something I was really ashamed of and I was feeling very guilty. On top of those two things, I had that teenage angst thing in overdrive, just over the top miserable and making my whole family miserable in the process. I was incredibly unhappy in those years. My best friend was raised in the message. She went to public school and that's how we became friends. So one day, she started showing me stuff in the Bible that I had never heard before, even though I had to Baptist churches for years. it just all made sense (don't ask me why???) And it seemed like the answer to my problems and what I needed. So, to solve one problem, I jumped head first into a way bigger problem that I didn't extricate myself until I was 44. I've heard that people in the middle of transitions are vulnerable to cults and also very idealist people and teenagers are usually both. I was.
@@BC-qb2if The two horrible decisions was that I graduated from high school with a lot of academic honors but I didn't even think about college because of higher education is of the devil. The other one was I married an abuser because I was engaged to him and WMB said that you're married in God's eyes when you are engaged, so instead of breaking up with him I married him and was in that marriage for 22 years. It was really bad.
@@lesliewells1062 Did Branham's teaching or those representing them create a wedge between you and your parents that they didn't recognize? I might have had some family members who got swept up in the shepherding movement, a few of them still in its current iteration.
@@BC-qb2if The wedge was already there, but it did make it worse. We had such a bad relationship already. they didn't tell me not to marry this guy or to go to college, because they believed it was my decision, but I did know they didn't want me to make the decisions I made. They didn't realize I was in a cult. They thought I was in a really strict Christian church and that it was a phase and that I was only doing it because my best friend was doing it. I also didn't tell them why I was making these desc ions, that it was because of the church. I didn't want them to tell me I couldn't go to church or listen to tapes by WMB or read his books. I kept a lot of secrets. I don't know what would have happened if they had tried to stop me. If I would have run away or what. I wish they had tried to stop me. It makes me sad that I joined a cult and no one really realized it. But it might have made things even worse, my life, my relationship to my parents. Who knows. it was so long ago--pre-internet. It would have been hard for them to find much out at all. But still...who knows how it would have turned out, right?
In addition to WB's peculiar nature, I always reacted to how he could hunt just for fun, and then not even killing animals that could be used for food.
Ive decided to check if we have a 'The message' church here in nz and we have. Mt roskil Auckland. Wow after hearing your history its worrying to think they are established here. And yes they hve that notorious halo picture on their website
Yes, there are several message churches in New Zealand.
@LeavingtheMessage wow first time i ever heard of the message cult. I was searching out where the word of faith teaching came from and latter rain and the seeker friendly church
18:40 slave statue discussion.
Oh my, what can be said about that 😮
1:10:45 “… a lot of leaders have a mountain of dirt on each other”.
Yep. Pearry Green had dirt on Sothmann and vice versa. Lee Vayle on Pearry Green and vice versa. Obviously Raymond Jackson on Pearry Green, Billy Paul etc (that open letter by Sarah alludes to this)
Also, speculation on whether the tape boys had dirt on WMB, hence WMB giving them a pass over homosexuality.
Not different from politics…. And we know how dirty that game is 😏
I am from Lee Vayle branch. If you know anything I am curious. From my perspective he really seem to believe in all
@@LoveCoffe56 take the time to listen to this testimony by Pearry Green. He had some things to say about Sothmann and Lee Vayle.
th-cam.com/video/d4rU64wQpzk/w-d-xo.html
Enjoy 😉
@@brothercaleb started. For now got to the part when Vayle admits he hates Ewald Frank. Good discernment if you ask me🤔
@@LoveCoffe56 I think after WMB died it was like when Alexander the Great had died… the battle between his generals vying for power, greed and control. Knives were out. This also went international. It’s staggering to have them even admitting to their warring tendencies.
Sorry for a bit of the spoiler there but that’s what’s wrong with the leadership in the message in general. They learned from the best 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
The lies and deceit from bro Branham is tremendously staggering, I just cannot believe that many of his followers have no idea about this.
It’s hard to accept that you’ve been deceived, for anyone. And near impossible for the especially prideful.
The lies and deceit by john and Charles are staggering deceiving you to believe their fairy tales....
William branham had to correct history and correct the historical records because of corrupt minded men like john and Charles....creating their own fictional history
There are followers who come on these videos and listen to the evidence and still defend him! The brainwashing is severe in some.
You guys are coming out of denial. Its a difficult process as we work through to allow truth to speak louder than what you were taught to believe. I chuckle a bit to watch John chuckle to cope or coverup how he feels. The fear trapping will go and your psyche will slot back in x
"Those who have a "zeal" for God, but not according to wisdom" readily comes to mind. It should serve as a warning to us all!
Do either of you know about Oral Roberts dealings with William Branham and would you be willing to do a podcast on it?
Our episode on Voice of Healing talks about William Branham's relationship with Oral Roberts a fair bit.
@@Charles-Paisley thank you, Charles. That was another informative video.
And what about Billy Graham? I’ve read some pretty shady stuff on him as well, but with a different style. He went with another group all together, but damage was done to many Christians in the name of the Catholic pope non the less
I'm looking forward to the info on Parham. He seems to be the "safe place" when discussing Charismatics/Pentecostalism. It may not turn the tide, but it will save a few people.
th-cam.com/video/3xjZ0GxyjrU/w-d-xo.html
1:02:05 claims of visits to some, nonexistent graves and other shenanigans. Oh boy!
Wait for it…..
All together now…
😅😅😅😅😅
😂😂😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😩😩😩😩😩😩
😭😭😭😭😭
48:13 😂😂 exactly! But John, were you allowed to have a TV? I assumed WB said “No” to all tv. FWIW I am about your age and I grew up loving bonanza.
What was the name of the author of "Son of Man"? Is the last name Lowry? or, Lowery? I cannot understand the first name. Thank you.
william-branham.org/site/research/people/paulaseer_lawrie
Thank you.
@@LeavingtheMessage
I was told by a man who knew Graham schnelling personally and one reason schnelling pulled away from Branham was he knew Branham was lying. Apparently he approached Branham about issues with the baptism on spring street and the light appeared. He knew that it was all untrue and he told Branham to stop lying.
Bruce Hall knew Graham Snelling and Graham told Bruce about the famous baptism on Ohio river-he said “if we had 10 people we had a crowd”. There certainly weren’t a lot of people.
Here’s Bruce Hall’s testimony, if you haven’t seen it already:
th-cam.com/video/ac7HFNJUjvQ/w-d-xo.html
Enjoy
@@brothercaleb no he mentions that bro Snelling would say if we had 100 people....we had a crowd...
He didn't say 10....
Bro William branham stated himself that he does exaggerate
@@dieselcowboy777 I stand corrected.
Yes, WMB admitted to exaggerating a lot. The problem is he never corrected his exaggerations. This is the point Graham Snelling was making-he should’ve repented before he died.
Died a liar, unfortunately.
@@brothercaleb he don't have to correct his exaggerations....exaggerations are not errors....and exaggerations are not lies and don't need to be repented of
@@dieselcowboy777 tell that to Graham Snelling.
I disagree with you.
53:57 no other way to explain it other than psychosis. The unraveling is groundbreaking.
This information is blowing my mind!! Ern Baxter??? I don't want to believe it! He was a close associate of Derek Prince, whom at this point, I still respect!
How would you know, please tell me. I have listened to almost all the audios of Derick Prince, but don't remember coming across this name 'Ern Baxter'. Didn't know who William Branham was until Derick Prince mentioned him.
th-cam.com/play/PLvp6DG1lf3uImX1YPp3APf0ZdVCsDVkGp.html&si=oeEfGyJT-qExmqdM
Rhodesia became Zimbabwe in 1981 after UDI. South Africa became fully democratic in 1994. Changes in South Africa started in the early 1970's and it took a long time for the voice of those wanting democracy to be heard and the changes to come about.
And when did South Africa stop being democratic? There are so many South Africans that flee from there. We have lots in NZ and AuS. There is even a white and a black South African in my cricket team. Everyone who cans just leaves
And what about Derek Prince, whom I really like. What about growing legs and arms if one was shorter than the other, was there any truth to that?
Have you ever seen the documentary American Gospel, Christ Alone? They show Todd White doing that trick, and it is a trick, and they show how it is done. It's another conman trick. You can probably find a on TH-cam showing how they do it.
The one leg shorter truck was a very common stage act of the era, wherein the hip shifted slightly made the leg seem shorter, and moving the hip made it “grow”. You can find videos on youtube of people expanding the trick. And yes, branham did this trick in his stage act.
Supposedly making a person's leg grow, I'm talking about.
@@lesliewells1062 I will check it out, thanks 🙏
@@LeavingtheMessage If I remember correctly, Derek Prince, left that type of ministry and moved on by himself. It was there he gained popularity and the money came rolling in. I was just wondering if it was this Branham bunch he and four others were involved in.
Beside the racial component it makes sense for him to go to the white people simply because of the financial aspect ? Although this trip probably also was a propaganda trip for his US based ministry ? Im just asking questions and trying to understand why he went there since it would also cost a lot. In this question lies a based opinion that he was not in it for the right reasons and probably money was the main factor for his ministry since i dont believe he believed in his own wrong teachings.. not every false teacher does since some are just deceived.
Gandhi was born in Porbandor , India on 2/10/1869 , not in Durban , South Africa .
Durban's South Africa was his adopted hometown. He lived there for many, many years. It's actually where he began developing his peaceful resistance techniques which he would later take back to India.
You guys have certainly opened a can of worms. Amazing thw deception
54:44 “…so he keeps chasing this vision…”
“For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, WAIT FOR IT; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.” -Habakkuk 2:3
It would seem that the scripture rather you wait for the vision… but not WMB… He HAD TO TRY make it happen - (ask Evan Mosley about buying a plane in order to make vision to come to pass … wink wink).
Look at south Africa now.
Sedechi sound to me like albanian name...sedeči
It’s Julius Stadsklev
Charlatan!!
I am a bit confused. You mentioned Gandhi around minute 16. Gandhi is not a South African. He's Indian, from India. He was active in S. Africa for a number of years but later went back to India in 1915 and thereafter fought for India's independence. He was assassinated in India in January 1948.
Gandhi lived in Durban for many years, and he organized the South African civil Rights movement while he lived there. Large rallies were common during those years. Branham showed up in the aftermath of that, and his meetings were in a way a beneficiary of that history in Durban. It was the only city in which he was able to successfully have any sort of an interracial meeting. The only relevance Gandhi has to the story, is to explain how William Branham was able to have a large interracial meeting in Durban.
The Muslims stop at "the God of Abraham". They don't include Isaac and Jacob.
Lol ya. Slip of the tongue
@@LeavingtheMessage LOL! I figured that.
There were not a lot of "natives" that could speak English in the 1940's. Black people that did speak a "foreign" language spoke more Afrikaans than English up to around 1990. Durban was more English than Afrikaans among white people though.
Charles he was Mahatma Gandhi not Mohammad. Durban was multicultural due to it being the centre of the British hold in South Africa. The British encouraged movement from India to Africa and were not interested in racial purity, unlike the Afrikaaners.
It's actually Mohandas Gandhi in the official English translation. His name is transliterated to English in multiple different ways, depending on the English speaking region of the world in which you live.
And it was actually very racial reasons that the British encouraged the Indians to migrate to South Africa. It's because they viewed the Indians as superior to the Africans, and generally believe them easier to control.
Gandhi personally led the efforts to fight racial segregation and racial discrimination in Durban. He did not make it multicultural. But he certainly broke down the barriers that allowed large interracial meetings to take place.
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. It's a complicated name that even our journalists here have trouble pronouncing it.
Hi, Charles when did you visit Durban S.A. I am Indian born here in Durban and I am 68years old.Do you know anything about our racial division that existed in our country before 1994.Did you read the entire book of A prophet visits South Africa before you make those comments or allegations. I just want to bring to your attention as you do not know the evils of apartheid that existed in SA.prior to 1994.I worked on the Railroad in different departments for a Ticket examiner,Police department and finally a Station Manager until retirement in 2019.I was also detained under section 29 of the internal security act al because of my employment contract which during apartheid stated that i was a regular contract and my white countrpart was permanent. This led me to be being detained under section 29 of the internal security act.Concerning your comments of Brother William Branham is unfounded as in 1951 oppression laws were firmly enforced by them the english government. It was law then that the whites and non whites cannot be congregated to gether.That was in statutory law. My mother who does not follow the message is 90 years is a witness of the events that transpired at the Durban Greyville Racecourse in 1951.I am the only one in my entire family that am not ashmed of the son of man nor his words in this generation. ALL i say that Go have mercy on you and your friend .
hi, could you please preach a sermon in such a way somebody like a branhamist will not hate branham but love christ more than the way he or she does by branhams message.
Am sorry today you are not preaching but giving some FbI/cia Report. Now what about your follwers? or church members?
You don't know why he may have worn those half shorts down to his knees because when traveling luggage many times get misplaced and he may have had to borrow something to wear or maybe his wife forgot to pack his hunting clothes
Plus bro branham preached on customs in other cultures....customs plays a role too
The fact he never wore those anywhere else makes it obvious they didn't belong to him. It was something he must have needed to borrow from someone there for some reason.
😂 😂
Those are not shorts, they are half length pants. The prophet would not wear shorts. And you are here arguing with unbelievers again. And agreeing that the prophet wore shorts. You see how entertaining this unbelief has affected you? You are accusing the prophet of wearing shorts. You need to start pressing play on the right thing.
@@BillyPaulBranham i am not being accusatory in any way. I am explaining that life doesn't always happen according to plan and so bro branham may have had a reason to wear them because they definitely weren't part of his normal wardrobe...they were probably borrowed from someone else, not something he bought
Can't you see you are focusing your negative perspective towards a fellow believer instead of contributing in a positive way?
@@BillyPaulBranham why don't you contribute in a positive way ....instead of acting like a negative Karen towards a fellow believer??
Quit being a negative Karen. All you are doing is being accusatory towards me so knock it off!!!
Because all my comments are pro bro William branham