Awesome video. I have the rigs and have been dealing with them in processing. Thank you for actually showing what a flat frame is suppose to look like with the RASA 11. My rings are showing up in my flats. Now I know what to look for and can solve the problem. Thank you again.
Luke, thanks for the video, I’m glad you addressed this problem, I always when look your subframes made me think no getting never a raza, you demonstrated the things we do for the love of Astrophotography, well done! Congrats!
Thank you Antonio my friend! :-D I totally understand you being put off by the frames etc, I have to be honest I probably wouldn't buy a RASA again after all this, it's great now it's working well but getting it to this point has been way too much work! haha! Clear skies :-)
Superb problem solving Jeff and Luke! Hats off to you; I certainly know which video to link when I'm asked about RASA Rings! Hopefully more love and less hate from now on lol Wishing you clear skies and uniform images :)
Thanks so much Chris mate! :-D Aye hopefully more enjoyment from here on out, at least I hope so haha - not sure how much more I can take from this scope LOL! it's been a challenge! Clear skies!
Happy to see you fixed that frustrating issue. Quite bizarre that one needs custom printed parts to make such an expensive piece of gear work properly.
Thanks so much mate! - I wholeheartedly agree, it's complete madness that I needed to figure this stuff out as an end user, literally manufacturing my own solution! not a scope I'd openly recommend to be honest.
Excellent video Luke. I have the same flat panel and curtesy of Steven Miller (EnteringIntoSpace) have started using the reverse side as well. I do use white construction paper along with a white teashirt as a diffusor inorder to get flate longer than 1 second. They seam to work but if you have another idea without the added diffusors I would be interested. I thing you mentioned turning down the gain, however, I always thought the gain had to be the same as the light frames? Cheers Kurt
+1 for the reverse panel method hey haha! :-D It works a treat! seems like my panel on 'low' allows 1+ sec broadband flats on the rasa now with the rear side, so i'm pretty happy with that! RE: matching gain/offset on flats to lights - it's certainly best practice! You can get away with it on the 533, 585 & 2600 no real problem, but earlier sensors tend to need them all matching for best results when calibrating yeah! (especially 294) Clear skies!
Thanks for the info. I have ASI1600 and AS1294MC, which I need to keep the gain but I also have a 2600MC so there is a little play in the gain for that one @@lukomatico
Luke, Dylan, Cuiv, Trevor, Nico and many many others keep me terrified at the thought of moving to narrowband long focal length equipment. I shoot a redcat with an asi533 and ASIAIR, so it’s a fairly no nonsense prospect to take that setup out for a night of imaging. But I guess, when I do work my way up to equivalent equipment I’ll be thankful for your videos like this. Salute to you sir, and thanks in advance! Cheers and clear skies
Thanks ever so much for watching mate, I'm glad that you've found some enjoyment from my videos - that's really nice to hear! Good luck in your future astro endeavours, but don't be too hasty haha! - that Redcat & 533 rig is a phenomenally good combo! :-) Enjoy! Clear skies!
I ditched my RASA as I could never calibrate out the light ring. Now I use a Hyperstar with my EdgeHD11 and I don't seem to need flats with 180sec exposures. However, I had a terrible star flare which I solved by 3D printing a ring to place over the dew heater ring to reduce the aperture by a few mm's. So "technically" by scope is a little slower now than F2, with a slightly reduced aperture. But with the crap weather we get in the UK, and a few hours data from a Rasa/Hyperstar equates to several nights of exposures with a slower scope :)
Hey there mate! :-) I totally hear you aye, the faster scopes really let us make the most of these tiny little sessions we often get! Glad to hear you've got the flares under control by the way, cracking work!
Luke, really nice images of Jupiter at the 11:00 mark. Just kidding. I really enjoy your work. You do a GREAT job. Glad you got it sorted out. Thank you sir. Joe D
Thanks so much mate! :-D Really I'm glad to hear you like my videos, that's very kind of you to say! (some of those flats did kinda look like Jupiter a bit haha!)
Sounds like a solid upgrade mate! - Using the back-side is working well for me now luckily, but i'll keep that in mind should problems arise somehow! :-) Clear skies!
Thanks a lot for sharing your issues as well as your solutions, Luke. Excellent video, as always. I found that when I increased my exposure to around 3 seconds with my photography light box, that light from outside started to affect the exposure from the backside of the panel. So I had to cover the backside up, to avoid light leaks, from light shining all the way through the panel. Capturing flats with the ZWO ASI294MC Pro has proven to be very challenging to say it at least. 🤯😅
Hey mate! - I totally hear ya, the 294 in all shapes and sizes can be a beast to calibrate haha - good on ya for getting it figured out though! Thanks for watching and clear skies!
Some light sources adjust intensity by varying the duty cycles. Perhaps that's why at low intensity settings you were picking up the banding with short exposures. Has anyone tried using those light absorbing paints like Vanta Black?
I think that could be what I'm seeing mate yeah, I did suspect it was perhaps a kind of PWM effect or similar as you suggest! :-) Luckily, the longer flats using the back of the panel sort out any issues! I've not tried those super black paints by the way!
Hey Luke when I do my flats on my Rasa I put a embroidery hoop with a tee shirt stretched over it on the scope before I place the flat panel on the scope. This really helps to even out the light panel banding effects. Give it a try. Hope this helps. Cs
Hey mate! :-) It's good to hear from you, hope you've been well! That's a good tip, thank you! - I'm currently using the back side of the panel instead of the front as it's quite a lot dimmer, that's allowing me to take much longer flats and it seems to thankfully be doing the job great! :-D
Great video as always! I've come to believe RASA's are great telescopes for people that like to spend more time fixing problems than Imaging. I've had a RASA 8 for almost two years now, it sat idle most of that time, I got tired of chasing back focus, and tilt issues, and everyone says don't touch the collimation it's your camera, I've had 3 different camera's on it with the same issue. I dug it out and dusted it off recently and found that Blur Exterminator does a pretty darn good job of fixing those atrocious stars. So now I've decided that this fall I'm going to mess with the collimation, and see if I can get these stars sorted out a bit better because the image details are amazing minus the crappy star shapes, so it's worth one more go at it.
Hey mate! :-) The RASA's can be pretty much the best scopes going, but also they can be a total pain in the rear as you (and I) discovered! I really do wish you all the luck in the world on getting things ironed out with it this coming season, I'm sure you'll get it done! :-) Clear skies!
Thank you so much matey!! - I'm using the back of the panel now to get longer flats luckily, it's going over 1s no issue now - longer would be even better though for sure! Glad to hear you've got a nice repeatable method going mate, that's superb! Clear skies! :-D
Hey Luke I also have to play with my flat panel a bit and often use the back and longer subs. I imagine though that's even harder at your RASA F2. Good troubleshooting, not sure I could handle the RASA might do my nut in !! :). Clear skies.
Thanks so much for watching Ollie mate! :-D hope you've been well! The RASA can be overall just a total pain at times, but at others it's a dream - hard scope to figure out haha, it really is a love/hate relationship with it. - Probably not a scope I'd openly recommend to folks! Clear skies my friend! :-D
Great vid Luke. Have you tried taking flats with the panel on 100% brightness? (they would have to be really fast exposures). When at 100%, the panel will be on constantly and therefore no pulse width modulation dimming, which is what is causing the banding problem.
Hey Dave! - I haven't given that a go mate no, I did wonder if it was a PWM issue, - good suggestion thanks! I'm currently going the other way and using the back side of the panel and low brightness, so the flats are very long and average out nicely! Hope you've been well mate!
I read somewhere that ideal flats shall be between 2 and 3s in order to average the light and minimize the flickering effect. I also use some material in between in order to diffuse the light. Led panel are made of little square pixel. Maybe a try ?
Hey mate! :-) Longer flats are definitely better yeah, I am now using the rear side of the panel which is quite a lot dimmer - it's allowing 1+s flats no problem :-) Clear skies!
Excellent video Luke. On the one hand it's a shame you have to resort to making parts to correct these issues, but on the other, the fact that consumer grade tools (in fairness the X1 Carbon is probably more prosumer) allow anyone to tinker and make these parts is fantasic. The resulting images speak for themselves and look super clean.
The price we pay for these scopes, you would think Celestron would get it right and take more pride in there product control instead of trying to make a fast buck... Think my name is Mud to them... 😁 but thats another story
Hey Pete mate! :-) It's honestly a bit mad that we have to tinker at all with these things given the price of the RASA11, phenomenal scope but good grief a pain in the rear at times! As you say, I'm just glad for the printers we have these days, being able to think up a design and within an hour have it in your hand for testing is absolutely game-changing! :-)
Agreed Chris aye, it's nuts! wish they came with a better camera adapter in the box rather than needing bolt-on stuff that ALSO needs fixing haha! mental.
I used "neutral density gels filter sheets" sandwiched with milky white acrylic to dim down my panel. It essentially stops it down. My flats are awesome now! (I have to be careful the density gel sheet doesn't get stuck to the acrylic which can create dark patches. If you press the sheet to the acrylic with your thumb for example... this could be fixed if I kept the acrylic away from the filter sheet - perfect project for 3d printer) I found I need multi-second flats in order not to have issues (i wont go under a second.) What printer and filament do you use? those prints look flawless... I have an Ender 5 and my prints aren't that good, but ok for what I used it for. Also, did I miss where you put the cone to fix the issue? It looks like it is at the camera ... I use a Hyperstar and get some issues... not sure if I can do anything about it.
Good to know mate! Thanks so much for sharing your tips :-D I am currently using the back of the panel and that's sufficiently dimmed things down to where I can take 1+s flats easy, which seem to work great now thankfully! - I'll bear the gel sheets in mind should further issues arise though! RE: printer, I'm using a Bambu p1s with AMS, - it's a great printer! as to filaments, generally Sunlu is good, they make the filament for Bambu themselves. (i do use a couple others though depending on what I'm doing) I fit the cone into the camera adapter/filter drawer adapter system from Baader that screws on the end of the RASA - the original fitting that comes with the scope is crap, and the baader replacement isn't much better hence the need for a fix haha! - I'm sorry I missed this off the video, I did have footage for that to explain what's going on but totally forgot to edit it in!
Congrats mate! You fought the RASA reflections and won this time 🙂 Looks great now! I was having odd issues with flats until I moved up to a bigger flat panel and ended up buying a Spike-a-flat panel and it worked great! You may have to put some diffusion material on the panel unfortunately as the lcd panels flicker at lower brightness and nothing you can do about it. It's the step-up inverter that is the issue with those. Have you tried sky flats and a big T-shirt stretched over a knitting loom? Either way I am happy to see you solved your issue! RASA's so finicky but the results are worth the trouble. Amazing that you can pick up the Veil Nebula with no narrowband filter! Clear Skies!
Hey Dave mate! :-D It was a battle for sure! I'm now using the back of the panel and it's working wonderfully, the brightness is much lower so I can easily get long flats now, allowing that flicker to average out! :-D I think you've nailed it really mate, they are so damn finicky but the results are worth it eventually hah!
Hey Luke, interesting video mate! Glad you sorted out your Rasa problem, being able to 3D print is great👍I had some flats issues, I was using the same flat panel as you, and suffered from flickering! I always use a white t shirt between panel and scope now and find my iPad work’s brilliantly as a light source, no flickering and nicely averaged flats👍 clear skies mate!
Hey mate! - Glad to hear the iPad is working for you, that's resourceful haha! :-D I've since switched to using the rear side of my panel and it's a lot better now thankfully, 1+ sec flats are no prob as it's considerably dimmer than the front! Thanks for watching!
Thanks mate! - I haven't shared/commercialized the design anywhere yet, I'm thinking I may end up revisiting it at some future time in order to try and solve the small (10% over aps/c) light falloff with a slightly less restrictive design :-)
I did a similar video about my aggravation with an 8” SCT. I got so frustrated I completely switched over to all refractors. The entire industry exists in a half-information state. Buying adapters is a nightmare. It’s unique to each persons needs but every scope has issues. I have atmospheric issues that limit my usable aperture. It has completely reshaped my gear acquisition. Basically I’m pushing towards my environmental issues. Everything is costly for money and time. I love these kinds of videos because this is reality. This is exemplary of the struggle so to speak. Someone will watch this and their life will be immediately easier and the problem solved.
Hey Garnett! It's great to hear from you mate! :-) As always, your unique perspective puts an interesting spin on things! - Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this, it's definitely important to share the reality of astro as much as possible - it can be the best hobby going, but also the most frustrating in the next breath! Unreal that scopes are sold in this state to be honest. Thank you for watching!
Right, Macgyver…you’ve tamed the 11, so get moving on a RASA 36! Lol! Great work Luke and enjoyed your iterative process to find a solution…excellent vid as always, mate! PS: As a previous resident of Canada, I was greatly disturbed to see that the Tim Hortons mug has been replaced! 😂
Haha! :-D As much as I'd love a 36 I don't have the bank balance, or the patience anymore I fear LOL! this RASA11 has drained me a bit! The Tim Horton's mug will make a return soon of course! :-D
I use neutral density film on my cheap artist flat panel and an embroidery ring with a couple of brand new white T shirt layers. I favor longer exposure flats, 2 to 4 seconds so I never noticed banding. I think my flats work fine but I'm very new at this hobby so I maybe full of s**t. Do you know if this ringing problem is also prevalent if using a Hyperstar on a SCT? I have a C8 SCT and was thinking of when I get more advanced I'd like to switch to some wider field objects.
Hey mate! I'm not sure if hyperstar have the same issues as this had, but I'm glad it's fixed now either way haha 👍 Glad you've got a method that's working too!!
Great Video as always Luke. I don't have a RASA but is it obvious where you fit the 3d printed part into the image chain as I didn't see where you showed that? Clear Skies
Hey mate! - That was a bit of an oversight on my part, I did record a segment showing where it fits but completely forgot to put it in the video LOL! Ah well. The larger part goes inside the camera/filter drawer adapter, and the smaller part goes into the empty threaded region in front of the corrector lens group! :-) Thanks for watching mate as always, and clear skies!
Luke, could you post a link for that flat panel, im using a C925 and have ordered Hyperstar so will be imaging at F2.2 with an Altair 26c. ps a video going into more detail about using Sharpcap with EAA would be great!
Hey mate! - Think you're set to have a lot of fun with that kit, good luck for some clear skies soon! - RE: the flat panel, here's a link for it on UK amazon (affiliate link) A2 flat panel - generation 2 I'll add it to the video description too incase it doesn't work here, cheers!
Hey John! - I'm sorry about the late reply, it was just a 'generation 2' A2 size flat panel from amazon really, there's quite a few different brands around but they are all basically the same thing - if you like though I can get you a link to the exact item if you're looking at UK amazon :-) Clear skies!
Thanks so much mate! - I'm not sure I mentioned but it's a part to insert into the Baader UFC system rather than the included RASA adapter, - I'll probably make it available at some point after a lot more testing but thank you for your interest my friend!
@@lukomatico Awesome. Thank you Luke. I got into this hobby 2 years ago, like many during the pandemic. I struggled with post processing for a good part of that time. I came across your channel and your tutorials changed the game for me. Keep up the incredible work/videos!
You might want to get yourself some Black 2.0 or VantaBlack to paint the insides of your new baffles. That black plastic still seems very shiny and reflective.
Luke, your resourcefulness to handle astro problems is….well, simply amazing! Someone in the comments mentioned, “genius,” truly mate, you’ve earned that title when it comes to this hobby. 12:33
As a totally random suggestion, get yourself a can of Black 3.0 paint for the baffles you printed, that stuff is like painting black holes everywhere if you really want to reduce internal reflections near the sensor.
That's a great suggestion and was a serious consideration too mate! I ended up wanting to solve the issues by using just the geometry of the design mainly though rather than needing extra materials/paints - that said, using both would indeed be better I totally agree! :-)
Another tip for you. I leave my LED panel at full brightness and I place a sheet of Photographic paper between the panel and the scope to reduce the brightness and use longer exposures to get the best flats
Thanks for that Tom mate! :-D I've since switched to using the back of the flat panel and that does the job lovely it seems!, much dimmer than the front
Hi Luke, before you applied the 'good' flats, what did the light frames look like before and after fitting the 3d printed baffle? Did the light frames with the baffle have the 'circle'? My 200pds had clean lights and clean flats, but once stacked the circle then appeared. It was movement within the scope/mirrors as it guided, which meant this was only visible after stacking. I couldn't fix it, ended up with a refund. Hope yours is now ok.
Hey Andy! :-) The lights with the baffle have no ring at all now, so the flats were just there to correct the small vignette etc - worked out well in the end I think! So sorry to hear your 200pds had to go back mate, that really sucks :-( Those newts are notoriously light-leaky, I've had a bloody shed-load of them over the years. - you may have been observing light entering around the primary mirror cell at certain pointing angles. Cheers!
Sorry to hear about these troubles. But, I am not surprised. Optic has important characteristics: size of stars in microns. It is awful in RASA. Mono camera is at least twice more sensitive than color camera, and cannot be used in RASA. Obstruction is large as well. So, why not to get Epsilon 180 F2.8. It will eat RASA for breakfast for both sensitivity and especially resolution; and carefree using of mono camera. I thought to go with 8” RASA or Epsilon 130. Went with later one. Tons of people are using RASA or edge with Hyperstar with a variety “helpful” gizmos. They just cannot compete with Epsilon. Design and building are not good enough.
Hey Ana! :-D I don't mean this to come across as antagonistic by any means, I'm genuinely really happy for you that you've got the Epsilon! But, If you look at the published white-papers for each design, RASA & Epsilon, you'll see that the RASA is actually a sharper scope than the Tak, as noted by the tighter spot diagrams across the whole colour spectrum! I'm not suggesting you'd notice a difference in practice though, as both will be limited more by the atmosphere than any particular design constraint! :-) Cheers!
@@lukomatico So, how much is star spot for RASA? 3um for Epsilon. Yes, seeing is contributor. I thought it is major contributor. It is not. On two star parties, I collected data from dozens of rigs. I will keep my opinion, rigs with RASA (several rigs) generated one of worse data. Now, it could be other parts of rig are doing this. But, they had one in common- RASA. Now, rigs with Tak were the best closely following by rigs with Esprit.
Ah the love hate relationship with the RASA 11 mate I know it well, I do find it surprising the Celestron must know of all these issues but never act on them so a bit of a poor show if you ask me. As you know I have the V1 & the focusers were upgraded on the V2's but I'm still surprised that edge HD's still have the same focusers as mine with locking screws as I'd thought they would all be upgraded by now unless I'm missing something? Sorry to hear the old flat panel died but welcome the A2 club lol they are massive but like you I use the reverse of mine with a T shirt & never had any banding issues when taking flats, in fact prior to getting it up & running I'd never taken flats that actually worked so I can thank NINA for that. I still use Celestron's M48 adapter on mine & gave up using the Baader system as it were only M42 anyhow & the vignetting is bad but flats do sort it out ok & never had any issues there. Keeping fingers crossed you've got it sorted out ok now mate so well done you've got more patience than me lol, clear skies!!
Hey Tich mate! :-D Hope you and Nicky are well mate! It's definitely a bit of a puzzle that the scopes ever got released to the public with such design issues - the OTA itself is a great bit of kit, but the supplied camera adapters are a bad joke by comparison hey. - the Baader UFC system is barely any better too, hence the need for these parts to fix it hah! All seems sorted now luckily, but crikey what a job it's been haha!
@@lukomatico Yeah we're not to bad thanks mate I hope yourself & Chloe are well? I hear ya about the camera adapters be nice to lose the vignetting when using an APSC sensor which sadly isn't the case, apparently using 2" filters cause it to which is weird as using the same setup with the refractor I barely have any. On mine I use the M48 celestron adapter, spacer a rotator from Ali Express UK (Some Uk vendors sell them at a rather inflated price) & Altair filter drawer screwed onto the camera. All M48 threaded apart from the camera which is M42. Altair will be starting retrofit tilt plate for the cameras to but not rear facing sadly so it's going to be a fiddly process if I bother with one lol. They are a pain in the ass to use but dialled in they're awesome to. Enough of my waffling I'll shut up now clear skies!!
Hey Tom! - I tend to use matte PLA a lot, but lately I'm trying to switch to PLA+ instead for better layer adhesion on parts - the Bambu does print most things very nicely though luckily!
Really informative video Luke.. great work and excellent insight into your probelm solving methods. While the problems can make the hobby frustrating at times, it's so satifying when you finally nail it. What sofware are you using to inspect your individual fit files mate?
Hey mate! :-) Sorry about the late reply to this one! I'm using astap for checking tilt/abberations, ASIFITSVIEWER for checking general state of the frames - that's about it really! I used to use blink but it's pretty clunky really so I leave it now and just manually blink in ASIFITSVIEWER, much quicker for me! :-) Clear skies to you my friend!
I'm just curious, but can you take sky flats with the RASA? Oh and I need to get a 3D printer one of these days! Love that you were able to engineer your own solution!
Hey there mate! Hope you're doing well and getting plenty of clear :-D You can indeed do sky flats if using a decent diffuser as Tich states here with the T-shirt solution, but I've never had amazing repeatability from them so settled on the panel route - I now use the back of the panel and it gets me much better flats luckily :-) Cheers!
I've found those panels cannot be used below 0.5s exposure and even one sec. Edit: I see that you came to the same conclusion😊 Did yiu use some fabric between the panel and the scope? That helps with the banding too.
Sorry to hear that mate, hopefully it didn't detract too much :-( sometimes if TH-cam's player is acting up a reload of the page, or a simple skip back 10s or so can fix it, or even switching resolutions for a moment also forces a resync - Thanks for watching! :-)
Awesome video. I have the rigs and have been dealing with them in processing. Thank you for actually showing what a flat frame is suppose to look like with the RASA 11. My rings are showing up in my flats. Now I know what to look for and can solve the problem. Thank you again.
My pleasure mate - I'm glad it was useful! I'm wishing you great success with the RASA going forwards! :-) Clear skies!
Good effort trying all that,,,proper commitment. Great final image from only 900 seconds live stack,,I love it .
Thanks so much mate! :-D it took quite a while but it's finally done I guess, haha!
Clear skies!
Luke, thanks for the video, I’m glad you addressed this problem, I always when look your subframes made me think no getting never a raza, you demonstrated the things we do for the love of Astrophotography, well done! Congrats!
Thank you Antonio my friend! :-D I totally understand you being put off by the frames etc, I have to be honest I probably wouldn't buy a RASA again after all this, it's great now it's working well but getting it to this point has been way too much work! haha!
Clear skies :-)
Superb problem solving Jeff and Luke! Hats off to you; I certainly know which video to link when I'm asked about RASA Rings! Hopefully more love and less hate from now on lol Wishing you clear skies and uniform images :)
Thanks so much Chris mate! :-D Aye hopefully more enjoyment from here on out, at least I hope so haha - not sure how much more I can take from this scope LOL! it's been a challenge!
Clear skies!
Very nice video Luke excellent problem solving mate
Thanks ever so much mate! :-) Clear skies!
Happy to see you fixed that frustrating issue. Quite bizarre that one needs custom printed parts to make such an expensive piece of gear work properly.
Thanks so much mate! - I wholeheartedly agree, it's complete madness that I needed to figure this stuff out as an end user, literally manufacturing my own solution! not a scope I'd openly recommend to be honest.
Excellent video Luke. I have the same flat panel and curtesy of Steven Miller (EnteringIntoSpace) have started using the reverse side as well. I do use white construction paper along with a white teashirt as a diffusor inorder to get flate longer than 1 second. They seam to work but if you have another idea without the added diffusors I would be interested. I thing you mentioned turning down the gain, however, I always thought the gain had to be the same as the light frames? Cheers Kurt
+1 for the reverse panel method hey haha! :-D It works a treat! seems like my panel on 'low' allows 1+ sec broadband flats on the rasa now with the rear side, so i'm pretty happy with that!
RE: matching gain/offset on flats to lights - it's certainly best practice!
You can get away with it on the 533, 585 & 2600 no real problem, but earlier sensors tend to need them all matching for best results when calibrating yeah! (especially 294)
Clear skies!
Thanks for the info. I have ASI1600 and AS1294MC, which I need to keep the gain but I also have a 2600MC so there is a little play in the gain for that one @@lukomatico
Luke,
Dylan, Cuiv, Trevor, Nico and many many others keep me terrified at the thought of moving to narrowband long focal length equipment.
I shoot a redcat with an asi533 and ASIAIR, so it’s a fairly no nonsense prospect to take that setup out for a night of imaging.
But I guess, when I do work my way up to equivalent equipment I’ll be thankful for your videos like this.
Salute to you sir, and thanks in advance!
Cheers and clear skies
Thanks ever so much for watching mate, I'm glad that you've found some enjoyment from my videos - that's really nice to hear!
Good luck in your future astro endeavours, but don't be too hasty haha! - that Redcat & 533 rig is a phenomenally good combo! :-) Enjoy!
Clear skies!
I ditched my RASA as I could never calibrate out the light ring. Now I use a Hyperstar with my EdgeHD11 and I don't seem to need flats with 180sec exposures. However, I had a terrible star flare which I solved by 3D printing a ring to place over the dew heater ring to reduce the aperture by a few mm's. So "technically" by scope is a little slower now than F2, with a slightly reduced aperture. But with the crap weather we get in the UK, and a few hours data from a Rasa/Hyperstar equates to several nights of exposures with a slower scope :)
Hey there mate! :-) I totally hear you aye, the faster scopes really let us make the most of these tiny little sessions we often get! Glad to hear you've got the flares under control by the way, cracking work!
Luke, really nice images of Jupiter at the 11:00 mark. Just kidding.
I really enjoy your work. You do a GREAT job. Glad you got it sorted out.
Thank you sir.
Joe D
Thanks so much mate! :-D Really I'm glad to hear you like my videos, that's very kind of you to say!
(some of those flats did kinda look like Jupiter a bit haha!)
A cheap upgrade I did for my tracing tablet is an acrylic slab that acts as a diffuser and ND paper to attenuate light intensity.
Sounds like a solid upgrade mate! - Using the back-side is working well for me now luckily, but i'll keep that in mind should problems arise somehow! :-) Clear skies!
Thanks a lot for sharing your issues as well as your solutions, Luke. Excellent video, as always.
I found that when I increased my exposure to around 3 seconds with my photography light box, that light from outside started to affect the exposure from the backside of the panel. So I had to cover the backside up, to avoid light leaks, from light shining all the way through the panel.
Capturing flats with the ZWO ASI294MC Pro has proven to be very challenging to say it at least. 🤯😅
Hey mate! - I totally hear ya, the 294 in all shapes and sizes can be a beast to calibrate haha - good on ya for getting it figured out though! Thanks for watching and clear skies!
Some light sources adjust intensity by varying the duty cycles. Perhaps that's why at low intensity settings you were picking up the banding with short exposures.
Has anyone tried using those light absorbing paints like Vanta Black?
I think that could be what I'm seeing mate yeah, I did suspect it was perhaps a kind of PWM effect or similar as you suggest! :-) Luckily, the longer flats using the back of the panel sort out any issues!
I've not tried those super black paints by the way!
Hey Luke when I do my flats on my Rasa I put a embroidery hoop with a tee shirt stretched over it on the scope before I place the flat panel on the scope. This really helps to even out the light panel banding effects. Give it a try. Hope this helps. Cs
Hey mate! :-) It's good to hear from you, hope you've been well!
That's a good tip, thank you! - I'm currently using the back side of the panel instead of the front as it's quite a lot dimmer, that's allowing me to take much longer flats and it seems to thankfully be doing the job great! :-D
Great video as always! I've come to believe RASA's are great telescopes for people that like to spend more time fixing problems than Imaging. I've had a RASA 8 for almost two years now, it sat idle most of that time, I got tired of chasing back focus, and tilt issues, and everyone says don't touch the collimation it's your camera, I've had 3 different camera's on it with the same issue. I dug it out and dusted it off recently and found that Blur Exterminator does a pretty darn good job of fixing those atrocious stars. So now I've decided that this fall I'm going to mess with the collimation, and see if I can get these stars sorted out a bit better because the image details are amazing minus the crappy star shapes, so it's worth one more go at it.
Hey mate! :-) The RASA's can be pretty much the best scopes going, but also they can be a total pain in the rear as you (and I) discovered!
I really do wish you all the luck in the world on getting things ironed out with it this coming season, I'm sure you'll get it done! :-)
Clear skies!
Well sorted Luke, you certainly have some patience, I always use 4 second flats never gone shorter…with CMOS cameras….👍🏻
Thank you so much matey!! - I'm using the back of the panel now to get longer flats luckily, it's going over 1s no issue now - longer would be even better though for sure!
Glad to hear you've got a nice repeatable method going mate, that's superb! Clear skies! :-D
Hey Luke I also have to play with my flat panel a bit and often use the back and longer subs. I imagine though that's even harder at your RASA F2. Good troubleshooting, not sure I could handle the RASA might do my nut in !! :). Clear skies.
Thanks so much for watching Ollie mate! :-D hope you've been well!
The RASA can be overall just a total pain at times, but at others it's a dream - hard scope to figure out haha, it really is a love/hate relationship with it. - Probably not a scope I'd openly recommend to folks!
Clear skies my friend! :-D
Great vid Luke. Have you tried taking flats with the panel on 100% brightness? (they would have to be really fast exposures).
When at 100%, the panel will be on constantly and therefore no pulse width modulation dimming, which is what is causing the banding problem.
Hey Dave! - I haven't given that a go mate no, I did wonder if it was a PWM issue, - good suggestion thanks!
I'm currently going the other way and using the back side of the panel and low brightness, so the flats are very long and average out nicely!
Hope you've been well mate!
The champions mane is looking epic!!
Haha! :-D the champion's mane, I love it! It's got a new name now, thanks bro! :-D
I read somewhere that ideal flats shall be between 2 and 3s in order to average the light and minimize the flickering effect. I also use some material in between in order to diffuse the light.
Led panel are made of little square pixel. Maybe a try ?
Hey mate! :-) Longer flats are definitely better yeah, I am now using the rear side of the panel which is quite a lot dimmer - it's allowing 1+s flats no problem :-) Clear skies!
Really cool results with the baffle! Trial and error, it’s what we do! 😅
Thanks mate!! :-D Totally agree, in my case it was quite a lot of error before the trial was complete though LOL!
Clear skies!
Looking very good Luke... Glad the little push helped you rid the RASA of those ugly rings... ;-)
Thanks so much mate! :-D Appreciate it!
Excellent video Luke. On the one hand it's a shame you have to resort to making parts to correct these issues, but on the other, the fact that consumer grade tools (in fairness the X1 Carbon is probably more prosumer) allow anyone to tinker and make these parts is fantasic. The resulting images speak for themselves and look super clean.
The price we pay for these scopes, you would think Celestron would get it right and take more pride in there product control instead of trying to make a fast buck... Think my name is Mud to them... 😁 but thats another story
Hey Pete mate! :-) It's honestly a bit mad that we have to tinker at all with these things given the price of the RASA11, phenomenal scope but good grief a pain in the rear at times!
As you say, I'm just glad for the printers we have these days, being able to think up a design and within an hour have it in your hand for testing is absolutely game-changing! :-)
Agreed Chris aye, it's nuts! wish they came with a better camera adapter in the box rather than needing bolt-on stuff that ALSO needs fixing haha! mental.
You can do it, if you luke n glue it, ive got faith in you sir!!
Haha!! :-D Thanks so much for the vote of confidence Chris! :-D Cheers mate!
@@lukomatico bloody ell, id a sentit back heh
Luke's getting more and more hair every week :P
Great vid again man
I'm growing it out, so it's only gonna get worse haha!! :-D Really glad you liked the video mate, thanks so much for watching! :-D
I used "neutral density gels filter sheets" sandwiched with milky white acrylic to dim down my panel. It essentially stops it down. My flats are awesome now!
(I have to be careful the density gel sheet doesn't get stuck to the acrylic which can create dark patches. If you press the sheet to the acrylic with your thumb for example... this could be fixed if I kept the acrylic away from the filter sheet - perfect project for 3d printer)
I found I need multi-second flats in order not to have issues (i wont go under a second.)
What printer and filament do you use? those prints look flawless... I have an Ender 5 and my prints aren't that good, but ok for what I used it for.
Also, did I miss where you put the cone to fix the issue? It looks like it is at the camera ... I use a Hyperstar and get some issues... not sure if I can do anything about it.
Good to know mate! Thanks so much for sharing your tips :-D
I am currently using the back of the panel and that's sufficiently dimmed things down to where I can take 1+s flats easy, which seem to work great now thankfully! - I'll bear the gel sheets in mind should further issues arise though!
RE: printer, I'm using a Bambu p1s with AMS, - it's a great printer! as to filaments, generally Sunlu is good, they make the filament for Bambu themselves. (i do use a couple others though depending on what I'm doing)
I fit the cone into the camera adapter/filter drawer adapter system from Baader that screws on the end of the RASA - the original fitting that comes with the scope is crap, and the baader replacement isn't much better hence the need for a fix haha! - I'm sorry I missed this off the video, I did have footage for that to explain what's going on but totally forgot to edit it in!
Congrats mate! You fought the RASA reflections and won this time 🙂 Looks great now! I was having odd issues with flats until I moved up to a bigger flat panel and ended up buying a Spike-a-flat panel and it worked great! You may have to put some diffusion material on the panel unfortunately as the lcd panels flicker at lower brightness and nothing you can do about it. It's the step-up inverter that is the issue with those. Have you tried sky flats and a big T-shirt stretched over a knitting loom? Either way I am happy to see you solved your issue! RASA's so finicky but the results are worth the trouble. Amazing that you can pick up the Veil Nebula with no narrowband filter! Clear Skies!
Hey Dave mate! :-D It was a battle for sure! I'm now using the back of the panel and it's working wonderfully, the brightness is much lower so I can easily get long flats now, allowing that flicker to average out! :-D
I think you've nailed it really mate, they are so damn finicky but the results are worth it eventually hah!
Hey Luke, interesting video mate! Glad you sorted out your Rasa problem, being able to 3D print is great👍I had some flats issues, I was using the same flat panel as you, and suffered from flickering! I always use a white t shirt between panel and scope now and find my iPad work’s brilliantly as a light source, no flickering and nicely averaged flats👍 clear skies mate!
Yup. IPad works wonders
Hey mate! - Glad to hear the iPad is working for you, that's resourceful haha! :-D I've since switched to using the rear side of my panel and it's a lot better now thankfully, 1+ sec flats are no prob as it's considerably dimmer than the front!
Thanks for watching!
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉🎉 Also I guess link for your baffles in the description😊
Thanks mate! - I haven't shared/commercialized the design anywhere yet, I'm thinking I may end up revisiting it at some future time in order to try and solve the small (10% over aps/c) light falloff with a slightly less restrictive design :-)
@@lukomatico Should also do ASI2600 MC Duo version 😏
I did a similar video about my aggravation with an 8” SCT. I got so frustrated I completely switched over to all refractors. The entire industry exists in a half-information state. Buying adapters is a nightmare. It’s unique to each persons needs but every scope has issues. I have atmospheric issues that limit my usable aperture. It has completely reshaped my gear acquisition. Basically I’m pushing towards my environmental issues. Everything is costly for money and time. I love these kinds of videos because this is reality. This is exemplary of the struggle so to speak. Someone will watch this and their life will be immediately easier and the problem solved.
Hey Garnett! It's great to hear from you mate! :-)
As always, your unique perspective puts an interesting spin on things! - Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this, it's definitely important to share the reality of astro as much as possible - it can be the best hobby going, but also the most frustrating in the next breath! Unreal that scopes are sold in this state to be honest.
Thank you for watching!
Right, Macgyver…you’ve tamed the 11, so get moving on a RASA 36! Lol! Great work Luke and enjoyed your iterative process to find a solution…excellent vid as always, mate! PS: As a previous resident of Canada, I was greatly disturbed to see that the Tim Hortons mug has been replaced! 😂
Haha! :-D As much as I'd love a 36 I don't have the bank balance, or the patience anymore I fear LOL! this RASA11 has drained me a bit!
The Tim Horton's mug will make a return soon of course! :-D
I use neutral density film on my cheap artist flat panel and an embroidery ring with a couple of brand new white T shirt layers. I favor longer exposure flats, 2 to 4 seconds so I never noticed banding. I think my flats work fine but I'm very new at this hobby so I maybe full of s**t.
Do you know if this ringing problem is also prevalent if using a Hyperstar on a SCT? I have a C8 SCT and was thinking of when I get more advanced I'd like to switch to some wider field objects.
Hey mate! I'm not sure if hyperstar have the same issues as this had, but I'm glad it's fixed now either way haha 👍
Glad you've got a method that's working too!!
Great Video as always Luke. I don't have a RASA but is it obvious where you fit the 3d printed part into the image chain as I didn't see where you showed that? Clear Skies
Hey mate! - That was a bit of an oversight on my part, I did record a segment showing where it fits but completely forgot to put it in the video LOL! Ah well.
The larger part goes inside the camera/filter drawer adapter, and the smaller part goes into the empty threaded region in front of the corrector lens group! :-)
Thanks for watching mate as always, and clear skies!
Luke, could you post a link for that flat panel, im using a C925 and have ordered Hyperstar so will be imaging at F2.2 with an Altair 26c. ps a video going into more detail about using Sharpcap with EAA would be great!
Hey mate! - Think you're set to have a lot of fun with that kit, good luck for some clear skies soon! - RE: the flat panel, here's a link for it on UK amazon (affiliate link)
A2 flat panel - generation 2
I'll add it to the video description too incase it doesn't work here, cheers!
@@lukomatico thanks so much mate.
Hey luke! Thanks for the video. Which light panel did you buy and where from? Cheers!
Hey John! - I'm sorry about the late reply, it was just a 'generation 2' A2 size flat panel from amazon really, there's quite a few different brands around but they are all basically the same thing - if you like though I can get you a link to the exact item if you're looking at UK amazon :-)
Clear skies!
That's awesome Luke!
Thank you James!! :-D I appreciate that my friend!
Luke! Love your channel. I want to buy your custom baffle. When will it be available for sale?
Thanks so much mate! - I'm not sure I mentioned but it's a part to insert into the Baader UFC system rather than the included RASA adapter, - I'll probably make it available at some point after a lot more testing but thank you for your interest my friend!
@@lukomatico Awesome. Thank you Luke. I got into this hobby 2 years ago, like many during the pandemic. I struggled with post processing for a good part of that time. I came across your channel and your tutorials changed the game for me. Keep up the incredible work/videos!
You might want to get yourself some Black 2.0 or VantaBlack to paint the insides of your new baffles. That black plastic still seems very shiny and reflective.
I may indeed do that at some point mate! :-) For now though, everything seems jolly good!
Luke, your resourcefulness to handle astro problems is….well, simply amazing! Someone in the comments mentioned, “genius,” truly mate, you’ve earned that title when it comes to this hobby. 12:33
Thank you so much Joe! You're too kind mate, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! :-D
As a totally random suggestion, get yourself a can of Black 3.0 paint for the baffles you printed, that stuff is like painting black holes everywhere if you really want to reduce internal reflections near the sensor.
That's a great suggestion and was a serious consideration too mate! I ended up wanting to solve the issues by using just the geometry of the design mainly though rather than needing extra materials/paints - that said, using both would indeed be better I totally agree! :-)
Genius Luke.
Ah mate you're too kind haha! Clear skies! :-)
Another tip for you. I leave my LED panel at full brightness and I place a sheet of Photographic paper between the panel and the scope to reduce the brightness and use longer exposures to get the best flats
Thanks for that Tom mate! :-D I've since switched to using the back of the flat panel and that does the job lovely it seems!, much dimmer than the front
Great job! do you by chance have a link to an STL file for one try this out ? Thanks in advance
Hi Luke, before you applied the 'good' flats, what did the light frames look like before and after fitting the 3d printed baffle? Did the light frames with the baffle have the 'circle'? My 200pds had clean lights and clean flats, but once stacked the circle then appeared. It was movement within the scope/mirrors as it guided, which meant this was only visible after stacking. I couldn't fix it, ended up with a refund. Hope yours is now ok.
Hey Andy! :-) The lights with the baffle have no ring at all now, so the flats were just there to correct the small vignette etc - worked out well in the end I think!
So sorry to hear your 200pds had to go back mate, that really sucks :-( Those newts are notoriously light-leaky, I've had a bloody shed-load of them over the years. - you may have been observing light entering around the primary mirror cell at certain pointing angles.
Cheers!
Sorry to hear about these troubles. But, I am not surprised.
Optic has important characteristics: size of stars in microns. It is awful in RASA. Mono camera is at least twice more sensitive than color camera, and cannot be used in RASA. Obstruction is large as well.
So, why not to get Epsilon 180 F2.8. It will eat RASA for breakfast for both sensitivity and especially resolution; and carefree using of mono camera.
I thought to go with 8” RASA or Epsilon 130. Went with later one. Tons of people are using RASA or edge with Hyperstar with a variety “helpful” gizmos. They just cannot compete with Epsilon. Design and building are not good enough.
Hey Ana! :-D
I don't mean this to come across as antagonistic by any means, I'm genuinely really happy for you that you've got the Epsilon! But, If you look at the published white-papers for each design, RASA & Epsilon, you'll see that the RASA is actually a sharper scope than the Tak, as noted by the tighter spot diagrams across the whole colour spectrum!
I'm not suggesting you'd notice a difference in practice though, as both will be limited more by the atmosphere than any particular design constraint! :-)
Cheers!
@@lukomatico So, how much is star spot for RASA? 3um for Epsilon.
Yes, seeing is contributor. I thought it is major contributor. It is not. On two star parties, I collected data from dozens of rigs. I will keep my opinion, rigs with RASA (several rigs) generated one of worse data. Now, it could be other parts of rig are doing this. But, they had one in common- RASA.
Now, rigs with Tak were the best closely following by rigs with Esprit.
Oh and you might try surfboard wax on your observatory rails. Stuffs amazing for the job. Cheers
Good shout!! Thanks for the suggestion mate! :-)
Ah the love hate relationship with the RASA 11 mate I know it well, I do find it surprising the Celestron must know of all these issues but never act on them so a bit of a poor show if you ask me. As you know I have the V1 & the focusers were upgraded on the V2's but I'm still surprised that edge HD's still have the same focusers as mine with locking screws as I'd thought they would all be upgraded by now unless I'm missing something?
Sorry to hear the old flat panel died but welcome the A2 club lol they are massive but like you I use the reverse of mine with a T shirt & never had any banding issues when taking flats, in fact prior to getting it up & running I'd never taken flats that actually worked so I can thank NINA for that. I still use Celestron's M48 adapter on mine & gave up using the Baader system as it were only M42 anyhow & the vignetting is bad but flats do sort it out ok & never had any issues there.
Keeping fingers crossed you've got it sorted out ok now mate so well done you've got more patience than me lol, clear skies!!
Hey Tich mate! :-D Hope you and Nicky are well mate!
It's definitely a bit of a puzzle that the scopes ever got released to the public with such design issues - the OTA itself is a great bit of kit, but the supplied camera adapters are a bad joke by comparison hey. - the Baader UFC system is barely any better too, hence the need for these parts to fix it hah!
All seems sorted now luckily, but crikey what a job it's been haha!
@@lukomatico Yeah we're not to bad thanks mate I hope yourself & Chloe are well? I hear ya about the camera adapters be nice to lose the vignetting when using an APSC sensor which sadly isn't the case, apparently using 2" filters cause it to which is weird as using the same setup with the refractor I barely have any. On mine I use the M48 celestron adapter, spacer a rotator from Ali Express UK (Some Uk vendors sell them at a rather inflated price) & Altair filter drawer screwed onto the camera. All M48 threaded apart from the camera which is M42. Altair will be starting retrofit tilt plate for the cameras to but not rear facing sadly so it's going to be a fiddly process if I bother with one lol. They are a pain in the ass to use but dialled in they're awesome to. Enough of my waffling I'll shut up now clear skies!!
@@dumpydalekobservatory We're both good mate thanks!! Thanks for the info by the way, good to know that's another solution 👍👍
Clear skies!
That’s a very nice video! Can you recommend a 3D prober strong enough for astro stuff? (I have experience in Autocad and some 3D modeling + meshing)
Hey mate! - Anything from Bambu basically! They're the best printers on the market at the moment and I've been extremely happy with mine :-)
@@lukomatico Thnks mate!!!
What material do you print with Luke. I’ve used PLA-CF for Astro parts as it has a Matt finish which really helps in terms of reflections
Hey Tom! - I tend to use matte PLA a lot, but lately I'm trying to switch to PLA+ instead for better layer adhesion on parts - the Bambu does print most things very nicely though luckily!
Really informative video Luke.. great work and excellent insight into your probelm solving methods. While the problems can make the hobby frustrating at times, it's so satifying when you finally nail it.
What sofware are you using to inspect your individual fit files mate?
Hey mate! :-) Sorry about the late reply to this one!
I'm using astap for checking tilt/abberations, ASIFITSVIEWER for checking general state of the frames - that's about it really! I used to use blink but it's pretty clunky really so I leave it now and just manually blink in ASIFITSVIEWER, much quicker for me! :-)
Clear skies to you my friend!
@@lukomatico no problem buddy.. you're a TH-cam celebrity you have an audience to look after 😁. Thanks for the advice mate 👍.
Clear skies
Another wonderful vid Luke, nice ingenuity and result, very inspiring.
Glad you think so mate! That's awesome :-) Clear skies to you!
I'm just curious, but can you take sky flats with the RASA? Oh and I need to get a 3D printer one of these days! Love that you were able to engineer your own solution!
I've managed sky flats using a T shirt on mine so it's possible Rich.
Hey there mate! Hope you're doing well and getting plenty of clear :-D
You can indeed do sky flats if using a decent diffuser as Tich states here with the T-shirt solution, but I've never had amazing repeatability from them so settled on the panel route - I now use the back of the panel and it gets me much better flats luckily :-)
Cheers!
Good tip mate! :-D
I've found those panels cannot be used below 0.5s exposure and even one sec. Edit: I see that you came to the same conclusion😊 Did yiu use some fabric between the panel and the scope? That helps with the banding too.
Hey there mate! - I'm now using the back of the panel as it's a lot dimmer, I'm now getting 1+s flats easy :-D seems to be working great!
Could you perhaps share your drawings to the parts? would love to print the same, thanks erik
Is there an audio sync misshap in this video?
not that I noticed
@@nikaxstrophotography Ty, maybe on my end then :/ Was not much but enough to feel disconnected
Sorry to hear that mate, hopefully it didn't detract too much :-( sometimes if TH-cam's player is acting up a reload of the page, or a simple skip back 10s or so can fix it, or even switching resolutions for a moment also forces a resync - Thanks for watching! :-)
There you go a new business venture selling 3d printed baffles :)
You never know haha! :-D It might happen! Clear skies matey :-)
i just stay above 4.8 with scopes i am lazy 😁
Nothing wrong with that at all mate :-D!! I'm tempted to join you again in that f/ratio some day haha, RASA etc is great but kinda tiring lol!
Celestron should pay you for pattenting and selling that baffle. 😊
I wish haha! :-D could certainly use the cash!
So relaxed in fact, you might have time for a haircut 🙂
Haha! :-D that'd be counter-productive as I'm growing it out!
Clear skies!
What you really need is carbon nanotube paint. It reflects almost nothing.
That would be awesome! though probably pretty costly I bet! :-)
Patent it or publish the design. Otherwise celestron will and prevent you to keep this video on.
I designed the part to insert into the Baader UFC system rather than the standard celestron adapter! :-D