My favourite part of this story is the very Subtle clue as to whats going to happen which could easily have been just a continuity mistake. I am of course talking about the reapearing Jacket (The Doctor losing his Jacket early on but it breifly appearing in one scene but its not this Doctor)
I remember catching that scene when the episode first aired, at first I chalked it up to a continuity error, but second time round I noticed how much softer The Doctor seemed to be with Amy and wondered if the jacket was intentional, was amazed when my theory panned out to be true.
You all prolly dont care but does any of you know a way to log back into an instagram account? I somehow lost the account password. I appreciate any help you can offer me.
@Rocky Jay thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process now. Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
Where I was disappointed was in us seeing the angels moving. In Blink, it's filmed as though we the audience are part of the story. The angels are always frozen, even when they tipping the TARDIS side to side, because WE are watching them. As soon as we see them move in this story it took me right out of it.
Absolutely. If the angels were stone when we as viewers looked at them, it would explain a lot of things in this episode like the Angel freezing after it grabbed the Doctor's coat. I didn't mind being able to see actions of the Angels, like when they were moving the Tardis in blink or seeing them move under a sheet or whatever. Being able to actually see them move was disappointing to me.
YES. The "Fridge Horror" of them not moving when no one but me was looking was a huge part of what made Blink the masterpiece it was. This episode ruined the Angels.
For me that's like saying Aliens ruined Alien. They made up a Queen! New ideas! Hoards of aliens doing smart things like knocking out the power- what are these new abilities? Ruined! If your going to sequel something you sequel it up, you add new ideas, you can't just repeat all the tricks you did first time out. In Blink the camera acts as a viewer, in Angels it does not its just a impartial viewpoint. Its a choice to change how they shoot them in order to tell a different story. That seems necessary to me or it would just be a repeat of the same ideas, concepts and story as Blink.
@@pettytyrant2720 fair enough, I can see your point of view. But in my opinion the fact that the viewer never saw them move is what made them so terrifying, and so to change that took something away from their impact as a villain. Also, as the video says, its a bit inconsistnant during this 2 parter.
Well technically the doctor's presence is required because without him the Angels wouldn't have been lured back onto the ship. Angel Bob was at the bottom of the catacombs by the time the clerics got inside, and the angel horde was restored by the time they reached the top of the catacombs. Without the doctor the clerics would have been killed at the end of the first part, and the angels would have been free to leave, since they had no need to go back into the ship where the crack was, and the ship was damaged and therefore useless for them escaping the planet with. I do agree with you in terms of the angels rules being run fast and loose with. Something good about blink is that the Angels freeze even in the sight of the viewer, they are always shot like the viewers are an active character. They seem to have tried to do that with the angels here, with them freezing with the doctor being caught like you said, because the angels hand is in the shot. But then when they do the Amy walk like you can see segment, they show them actively move, and throw it all away and its just stupid. Also about that walk like you can see segment, goddamn does it break the lore that was set up before. They are quantum locked, the fact that they turn to stone when seen is explicitly told to us as being an automatic reflex, not something they do by choice. It is something they have absolutely no control over and is their greatest defence mechanism (until you get sledgehammers and disintegration tech) but also their greatest weakness. And yet apparently they choose to turn to stone near Amy because they think she can see. No. I'm sorry, but they would know if she can see or not instantly, because if she can they would turn to stone, and if she can't then they won't. That is how you have told us this works. In addition they are running scared, the doctor says that just before. If they can actively choose to go stone, then they wouldn't do so there because the crack is actively closing in on them and they are supposed to be running in fear of it, they wouldn't do something that forces them to stand still.
You answered your own question here- the Angels were afraid and running- the Doctor explicitly tells Amy that, and that they won't stop to bother her if they think she can see. In otherwords they are not wanting to be stopped or slowed, they want away. The Doctor doesnt say they will freeze thinking she can see them, only they wont bother her, that they will ignore her. Which they do until she falls then those who are passing her at that time notice they arent turning to stone and therefore she can't see them and move in for her.
@@pettytyrant2720 What you just said contradicts what happens. Like you said, the doctor said they wouldn't bother to stop for her because they are running. And yet the explicitly do stop for her when they don't have to. As I said, the turning to stone is something they have no control over as far as we have been told, it is an involuntary reflex in response to being seen. What you are telling me happened is that the Angels saw Amy there, and actively chose to stand still next to her. But they are running away in fear, why the hell would they stop when they don't need to?
@@TheShadowofDragons They stopped because she was acting oddly, they stopped on the way by, see the angel who is actually passed her but cranes its head and neck round back the way to look at her to see why, and when she fell they stopped to grab her. And whilst we are told that they turn to stone involuntarily in sight of others, we are not told one way or another if they can choose to do so as a defense or if they are uncertain of events. Or knowledgeof them is limited, and at that to what the Doctor an unreliable narrator tells us about them. The ones around Amy are not 'frozen', not stone, they are stopped, just as the ones listening to the Doctor at the crack are, we know this becuase the Angel with Amy moves its head whilst otherwise standing staionary. So it cannot be frozen.
Things the doctor did: River would’ve died The crack wouldn’t of been there because it’s following the doctor The priests wouldn’t have got on the ship and that means the angels would have a reason to be on the ship as the energy was flooding that catacombs
Doctor Who Religion the crack was following the doctor, the doctor explained it was following him because he needed to go into it to get it to close permanently
When the Angels 'freeze' when they have the Doctor by the coat I don't think they are frozen, they have made the very stupid mistake of stopping to listen to what he has to say. They are not frozen just listening. Hence why when he runs away he makes a jibe about how they shouldn't let him talk. When it comes to the gravity thing the Doctor does do something- he leads the angels to the very top of the ship- the bridge- its highest point so they will definetly fall and do so into the crack - which is itself placed high up the ship in the oxygen-forest before the bridge, so the Angels had to be above it to fall into it, and they were mainly located below that point in the ship as we saw. The Doctor's plan was to lead them up passed the crack before the gravity gave out so they would fall into it. Also why he is so desperate to get Amy to the bridge first or she would too. If he hadn't continually taunted the Angels throughout into coming after him the Angels wouldn't be in a position to be threatened by the crack, or of falling to their doom into it and temporarily closing it. Agreed on having more with the other soldiers, however at same time I find it hard to pick what I'd lose to make room for it. I don't think Moffat thinks his audience is stupid, I think he thinks a sizeable chunkof it is 6, 7, 8 years old or younger (I started on Pertwee aged 3). Even in classic important plot points are often repeated or have a wonderful 70's over-dramatic over long lingering zoom in on the radation reading/ticking bomb etc to make sure the young audience caught its relevance to the plot. It might seem to be needlessly over doing it to me now as an adult, but it worked just fantastically when I was a kid. And I'm sure it still does.
They still look like statues when we see them move in the forest around Amy, so there is nothing indicating they have a different outward appearence when not frozen, only that when observed they freeze. There is nothing to say in that scene they have turned to stone (other than ones within his immediate field of view) and that instead they are simply not moving, as they listen to him talk. I think this is backed up by the Doctor's dialgoue upon escaping their clutches.@@BaloonBoy7
I came here to write the same thing about the plot points. Also, it's specifically mentioned in this episode that these angels are afraid and freeze when it's unnecessary for them to. But yeah, they were listening and it comes up later that they wanted the Doctor to sacrifice himself. They didn't want to zap him to the past.
@@BaloonBoy7 Well we are only told they turn to stone, not that they don't have a stone like appearence to start with. We have to assume they still look like stone angels observed or otherwise, but only actually turn to stone and beocme fixed when observed.
The 'you're a genius' line works fine as River saying the Doctor is a genius for figuring out about the gravity, rather than it being a part of a plan (if you don't think he had planned it)
Fun fact: This was when I was first propeely introduced to River Song. My first impression of her was that River was the Doctor's Catwoman. I am so happy that I was right!
IMO it’s one of those stories where I don’t really care for it, but when I watch it I actually enjoy it. I don’t love it though. I still think Blink is the best Angel story. I wanna see a story explore the angels history with timelords, maybe set in a snowy and foggy world where the timelords were doing experiments when they first got hold of time travel and the angels were a byproduct of the experiments. Or maybe they’re dead timelords, maybe there’s some justice system where timelords get thrown into the time vortex and some sort of mutation went wrong and creased angels. ANYTHING. I just think their next big story should explore the history, otherwise the angels won’t be that talked about anymore as (IMO) each time they’ve appeared they lost more and more value.
That's somewhat true but Blink is a hard story to beat, Flesh and Stone and Angels Take Manhattan are still great stories. Don't you think exploring their history would take away their mystery and intrigue?
“I don’t have a plan, but people like when I say that. Hope something good happens and take credit for it, that’s usually how it works.” - The Doctor, a later episode.
I love this story except for seeing the angel moving. I like to imagine that when people aren't looking at them the transform into a Lovecraftian horror. Seeing them stay as statues but move dispelled that which is a unfortunate.
I bet it would've scared the shit out of me if I'd been 8, but I agree. It was pretty silly. Maybe they reproduce by standing in front of school trips. They get a bunch of new angels from sketchpads with arms growing out of their heads and stuff.
I think the Angels work better Earth bound, which is why I personally preferred Angels Take Manhattan, even as crazy doodle as the Angel of Liberty was.
The problem with The Weeping Angels is not fan involvement with Blink. It's just the fact that Blink was either a complete fluke, the story was stolen, or Moffat completely lost touch with what made them scary. They are essential scifi jump scares with a time element. That means you should never see them: (1) Move (2) Speak (3) Walk (4) Physically harm (5) Rationalize (6) Fail to advance rapidly when you BLINK. This 2-parter was terrible, but it's okay to like it anyway if it floats your boat.
In addition to what you already said, it always bugged me that way that when you see the Weeping Angels move at the end and still look to be made of stone. The way they were said to "turn to stone when seen" in Blink made me think they'd revert to a more ethereal or hellish appearance when they can move, and I always kind of liked the mystery of not quite knowing what their true appearance looked like.
Hello sweetie. ♡♡♡ These two episodes always made me feel conflicted for the many reasons you mentioned. I always feel terrible for Angel Bob but he chastised the Doctor from beyond the grave telling him he was wrong. The death was painful and he was frightened. The Doctor lied to him. The Angle used Bob's voice to demoralize everyone and guilt shame the Doctor.
This is a family show, meaning it’s accessible to everyone of all ages... and 8-10 year olds sometimes need to be told something more than once to understand it. Prisoner Zero was able to use the crack to escape because it’s 1000 year old multidimensional creature. Prisoner Zero’s guards weren’t able to use the crack in the same way, they had to track the message they sent to the doctor. But the doctor jumped ahead 12 years, which is why they show up not long after that. The crack was on Amy’s side, sucking away at her life, so Prisoner Zero wouldn’t have been in danger until it came through on Amy’s side, and found it was unable to use the crack again to escape elsewhere. If it tried, that’s probably when it would have been eaten by the crack. I don’t know, it’s not inconsistent to me. I felt and still feel the crack is Moffat playing completely fair and square with his audience, everything feels like it makes sense and has been consistent (in-show at least) once you get to the finale. But that’s just me 🤷♂️
The thing about Moffat pushing the "this is the clever bit, do you get it?" once more than necessary- he does that with EVERYTHING. All of Hell Bent is a prime example, the little "clever bits", some jokes, etc.
This is one of the all time best stories, better than Blink. Very intense, great acting from all involved. The second part, when they are escaping the Angels and Amy is counting down to zero is absolutely fantastic. The resolution is well done and the opening scene in part one with Kingston and Smith is great. Almost perfection for me.
I can't watch this right now but I went ahead and liked it because Nathaniel is awesome. I don't always agree with the nitpick but I always admire his love of Who. Thankyou Nathaniel.
Ill always enjoy this 2 parter whilst not perfect getting Doctor River and Amy together for the first time always feels special Considering this was the first eps filmed for s5 I think Matt does really well for his debut and you wouldnt think these were his first go's On topic of Moff thinking audience are stupid I'd say the UK audience was at the time through s5 and mostly in s6 people moaned the show was too complicated and difficult to follow even though if you paid attention it's very easy to follow the narrative
I also I love Amy Pond as a character also. But I think your selling Rose a bit short. Yes she does have a bit of a jealous streak, but she comes to terms with it. A good example of this is when she speaks with Madame de Pompadour & her reaction is something yo the effect of "he was right about you" - acknowledging she was in the presence of someone exceptional. And in the episode with Sarah Jane they end up on friendly terms. Oh I almost forgot to say I think a video on the Crack is a good idea.
I'm so glad you've said this about the inconsistency of the cracks in time - I've been saying it to myself for years. Why, in Craig's flat in 'the lodger' when there's a crack, and there's a crack in Chucrchill's basement, and their energy doesn't leak out and erase people from Time, why does that happen to Rory in 'In cold blood'?
I always assumed that the angel that grabs the Doctor froze because the future Doctor from season finale (Who we knows traveled back there because he interacts with Amy) was looking at them. Although that doesn’t explain why earlier Doctor didn’t wonder why they froze.
The extra frustrating thing is that at least a couple of these problems could have been so easily fixed; one line about there being different kinds of cracks, one line emphasising that the Doctor is luring the angels in front of the crack.
OK, this is my headcannon on the cracks: Firstly, I am basing the timeline on the doctor personal timeline since the creation followed his and the TARDIS's path thru time. The cracks were caused by the destruction of the Tardis/rebuilding of the universe. Were are going to say that is the starting point in time. The farther in time from the initial forming of the cracks the less dangerous they are cause the explosion energy dissipates the farther from the center of the boom. Rory got taken by the cracks it was very close to the creation(still in the bright flash and most force of the blast), so he AND his existence got wiped out. But Prisoner 0 and the time lords, were even farther and used them as portals since the "blast energy" had dissipated by then. The cracks were just the aftermath at that point.
@@xenon8117 I get your point on the time, that is why if you look at the explosion as the center moving out in time following the Doctors timeline. Basically, 10 years after and 10 before are the similar as 10 feet in a physical direction, since the explosion was in time and space. You can follow the series as the timeline, not the dates/years they traveled too. So Rory was a couple of weeks away from the explosion, prisoner 0 was months away. The Doctor is jumping around time, so his perspective of time is the one the cracks/damage followed not the linear calendar.
The part of this episode that worked for me the least was the Amy ACTING like she can see the Angels (even though she can't) causing them to freeze. Like....what?!?! I thought the freezing was a "fact of their biology"
I really like this story up to the point the wall slides up and we see the forest, after that any threat from the angels is erased as they fail to operate how they're supposed to over and over until the end.
It's a family show but I agree with the point you are making. He doesn't explain it one time too many because he disrespects the intelligence of the audience. He does it because there are kids watching, some very young, and he wants them to get it too. It's also for the dimwits who don't pay attention and then moan about the show on the net afterwards. ;-)
I really enjoy this story. Something I always feel the need to point out, when its brought up. Apart from the very cringe scene at the end of the story, I dont see any evidence that Amy "had the hots" for the doctor. I think she was very confused about her upcoming nuptials, the doctor was there and she wanted to experiment! After what we learned later in "let's kill Hitler" I think it's fair to say Rory is the only man Amy has ever been with. She adores Rory, but shes very different from him. He knows what he wants so why waste time. Amy knows she loves Rory, but at the time, settling down, getting married, living the quite life in the quent little village isn't what she wants, she extrovert, excitable and craves excitement and adventure. She feels in order to be with the man she loves she has to suppress that side of her personality. At that moment in time shes in the middle of seesaw and doesn't know which way shes leaning. A quick night of passion with the handsome adventure would surely help her make her mind up. I honestly think if the doctor had been game, she would have deeply regretted it. Any who back to the story. The reason I like it, is because it makes the angles scary! I never thought they was scary in blink. Blink is a fantastic time travel story, but I never viewed the angles as threatening. "The only psychopaths in the universe to kill you nicely" they didn't seem that psychotic thought. "Hungry looks very much like evil, from the other end of the fork" "they feed on time energy" "they're scavengers" Until this story I thought the angles were just hungry, and lonely. They cant touch or interact with anyone, even there own species. All they do is send you back in time and they only do that because 1 they cant help it. 2 they're hungry. This story shows us how psychotic they actually are. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure once the angles have the doctors jacket, and he runs off, they turn there heads and are now looking in the direction hes running, whereas from the pic you showed without the doctor in the middle they would be looking at each other, so shouldn't be able to move. again could be wrong, but I'm sure this story only explains the new things they learn about the angles but doesn't go over what we learned already. If a fan had only started with season 5, they would probably be pretty confused to what the angles are. About Moffat spelling out his stories too much. I do sometimes people forget that the show is also written for a younger audience. If you're writing with children in mind sometimes you do have lay out a few more breadcrumbs, I honestly think in the situations you mentioned the audience was supposed to cotten on before the team did. Its half the fun, when the reaslisiotin hits you before the characters, especially for kids. I do get what mean though. I've always said Moffat is like the doctor. Hes brilliant, but sometimes he needs someone to stop him. I really think he needed someone like Davies to read through his scrip, and have the balls to tell him "no" He writes amazing stories, I feel he needs someone to guide him a little in execution.
My theory about the angels still being frozen when the Doctor's not watching them is that we, the viewers, count as someone watching them. That seems to hold true for every episode they're in: the only times they move are when the camera is off of them or when the lights go out.
I personally love this episode, only a few things bother me. ~ I hate it when the angels turn their heads to look at Amy. I don't mind that they don't notice that her eyes are closed, they have no need for her time energy if they were to displace her in time so they aren't interested. It's just when they turn their heads to look at her when she fell. It completely contradicts the entire quantum lock idea established in blink. ~ I agree that the extra characters such as the soldiers should've had more personality. That's all I can say about that. :)
I definitely agree with a lot of your points here. Another note to add I really don't like the scene at the end where Amy sexualy forces a snog on the doctor where he makes it perfectly clear he doesn't want to. That's very much SA
For weeks I thought I'd spotted a continuity error - the Doc has his jacket on when speaking to Amy from behind, after having it removed earlier. When I saw the final episode, I realised Moffat *is* mostly cleverer than me. Mostly.
I disagree with the angels being well used here, mainly for one reason. Seeing the angels move in the scene where Amy had her eyes closed and was 'walking like she could see' took away a huge element of what I found scary about them. In general I enjoy this story, but this element bugs me. Not knowing how the angels move, and not really understanding the angels was part of what made Blink so impactful, and that was ruined here.
Not to mention that the quantum lock was supposed to be out of their control which is why them looking at each other worked. It was supposed to happen when they were observed. Pretending you can see them shouldn’t have done anything because the quantum lock wasn’t based on whether the Angels thought they were being observed.
Xenon But then “figuring it out” shouldn’t have been a factor at all. The angels don’t control their quantum lock. It is an automatic process that kicks in when they are being observed. If they could control it the ones trapped in Blink by their own sight could have just turned it off. The angels didn’t need to realize that Amy couldn’t actually see. The quantum lock simply wouldn’t have kicked in because she wasn’t actually observing them.
Xenon The entire premise of Blink falls apart if the Angels have any kind of conscious control over the Quantum Lock which should make tricking them into using it irrelevant as it doesn’t work that way.
@@BaloonBoy7 I'm not in public, although time travel is illegal here so you might be correct. I'm sorry I couldn't remember their name at the time, I have a lot of irl things to remember, as well as a lot of inotrl things to remember.
This is kind of drawing hate from future worse episodes but if every photo of an angel becomes an angel the world would end. How many post cards of the Statue of Liberty are there?
I actually had a really hard time watching this video because I really like this episode. And yeah, it has flaws but River/Amy/Doctor dynamic is SO GOOD. Though having now watched your review, your points are all valid. Though I thought the coat/Doctor thing was also a light thing, angels seem to be light shy as well as sight driven. I remember the angels freezing when the light comes back on. Though I don't think it's explicitly stated anywhere so that could be head canon.
I would've vastly preferred the Angels' defeat if it was written so that the Doctor was luring them to a specific position which would cause them to fall in the crack once the gravity is drained.
Once again I stayed up way to late just to watch an episode I was excited for. I love river w Amy the first time. And I love the weeping angels anyway. And I think it's just interesting.
I think this is one of those stories that definitely has plotholes and inconsistencies, but there's just so many awesome moments that I don't even care. "Walk like you can see" was dumb though.
i think 11 said something about how the cracks were a point in time not meant to be or whatever the hell it was. but the cracks aren't really meant to exist, so I personally can accept that if its not really meant to exist that there are no rules its meant to follow. it can be a portal one day and a WMD the next
Have you ever thought about doing a ranking of the multi episode stories? Bit of a different idea and would be good to see where multi episode stories would land in a top 10/ every multi ep story ranking
Watched this again last night after a sisters of mercy gig. Always loved this episode (s) and I still do. doctor who's aliens compared to blinks alien. I loved aliens and I love this. Mat's doctor is terrific, Amy is superb, river is amazing, the priests are deeper than expected. The angels are menacing and dangerous and I love when the angels start to move when Amy is "blind" love future mat and I really like the cracks and how bleak and scary it felt. Love this series and love these two episodes specifically. Yeah I get the cracks change how they work but I never cared about that. I think u read a little too much into it at times. Why did they freeze because plot hahaha
11:55 I think you are overreacting a little bit with this example and being too nitpicky. I never felt tricked into thinking, he was such a genius and that he planned that in advance. I ALWAYS interpreted it as him being lucky and recognizing it right then and there. And River's phrase was just a sign of relief to the fact! Otherwise I mostly agree with your opinion! 18:35 Thank GOD you still mentioned that! I was right about writing another comment, because I think this small little detail in that scene doesn't even get ENOUGH praise! Why do I think that? .... BECAUSE I ACTUALLY NOTICED IT UPON MY VERY FIRST VIEWING OF THE EPISODE! I always thought, that was either a mistake or it means something, but that scene felt definitely important....
I always forget that the Applans have two heads and I've never twigged that they have two head so Moffat has overestimate my intelligence in this case.
Regarding the Doctor's jacket, doesn't it work that he doesn't see them but we do, hence they freeze. We, the TV viewer, count as someone looking at them. That's how it worked in Blink, so why not here? Unless I'm forgetting something.
I had a nightmare that i bought a painting of a forest. there was this dark spot in the distance in the painting that made me feel uncomfortable. in the dream when I slept I could hear this terrifying shrieking in my dreams. then when I look closer into it I notice the outline of a statue. a few days later someone else points out the statue of a weeping angel in the painting and when i look its far larger on the painting. then one day its the focus of the painting, it was like it was getting closer. then in the night the power in my house goes out so I light a candle, theres a breeze but no windows are open. it feels like its coming from the painting but I convinced myself it was just my imagination.. the candle flickers in the breeze meaning the painting is occasionally not visible in the light. then i notice a stone hand reaching out of the painting. i stare at it and run to the door. the door however is locked and the key won't work. i turn to see a snarling angel frozen halfway out the painting then the candle is blown out and i feel an ice cold touch on my shoulder. the last thing i remember from the dream was waking up in the stormy ocean struggling to swim in freezing water as i sink i finally woke up from the nightmare and damn did it make me want to see this in an episode of who.
My head canon they freeze if they have eye contact with another living creature (In Blink when the Tardis disappears they are looking directly across at another. And the image of an angel has to do with the specific technology to used in the camera that is being viewed through.
I never liked that we see the angels move in flesh and stone. Isn't it weird that they stay rock? They're supposed to turn to stone when seen, but they don't stop being stone as they move. That's always bothered me.
What bugged me the most in this episode was when Amy was walking around with her eyes closed. She was supposed to act like she could see to trick the angels. When the angels figure it out and we can see them moving that is what I had a problem with. We should never see them moving. Also, they are only supposed to turn to stone when being viewed. We shouldn't see a stone statue moving because they are not supposed to be stone at that moment. There are other things wrong like you had mentioned, but this one was my biggest issue.
Hmmm... maybe the finale Doctor is the one looking at the Angels in that moment, from far away. He's going back making sure things go. It's a long shot but I think it probably fits if you really want it too; I'll have to rewatch it. Never thought I'd say something in defence of this story.😆😆
For the most part I enjoy this story, the only things that bother me is the Doctor's costume continuity as this was the first episode shot. For most of the Tardis scenes and Amy's bedroom, Matt's hair is shorter and tidier than the rest of the story
I think Moffat/Gatiss in general have other characters overpraise their protagonists. Look at all the shit everyone lets Sherlock get away with because he's the cleverest person who ever existed.
I didn’t like when you could see the angels move as they still looked and sounded like stone and the whole thing is that they’re supposed to be living things when noones looking
I guess if the ending was trying to fool me, it succeeded--I thought the Doctor did do something to take away the gravity and make the Angels fall into the crack, but I didn't quite understand exactly what happened at the time. Now I know why I didn't understand what the Doctor had done--he hadn't actually done anything. I need to re-watch this one. I loved the character of Octavian, and this was from before I got sick of River. But that's one of the reasons I haven't re-watched it--by the end of Matt Smith's run, I was thoroughly sick of her. Plus, I never have bought either the in-story explanation of the cracks and how they tie in with the story arc of the following series, nor Moffat's further explanations he's given in interviews and such. And this is a crack-heavy episode, that is to say, they play a major plot role here, whereas in most Series 5 episodes, such as The Beast Below and The Vampires of Venice, they basically have just a cameo. So I'll probably like this one a lot less if I re-watch it than I did originally (and it wasn't one of my favorites to begin with).
I think the resolution that the doctor actually effected nothing was a good, interesting and even very realistic solution to the alltime Problem of Doctor Who: How do we create a threat, that is huge and scary, but can still be realistically stopped by the Doctor? Here, Moffat created a situation, where the doctor couldn't save everybody, he couldn't even stop the angels. He just found himself in an impossible to win situation and just tried to get his friends and everyone else out there alive. You always say, that you are not fond of the doctor's reputation, and I think this worsens his reputation by a lot. He made a wrong call, lost a lot of lives and wasn't even the one to stop it. I think through all of these factors, Moffat showed the threat of the Angels off brilliantly, while still showing the Doctor creatively getting out of situations.
This episode started what ended up being a VERY wrong theory for me and my wife. River and Amy have good chemistry in this episode, and others throughout the season, so we started shipping them when we first watched as-aired. The reveal of the nature of their relationship wasn't till series six, and ikes, did we feel squicky when that came to light. But here, and in the finale? Even in the beginning of series six? If you don't know, and couldn't know, yeah....
Well Moffat's always been quite adamant that Doctor Who is first and foremost a children's show, so perhaps the extra clues are written for an audience less versed in film and television language
I have mixed feelings about this story too, but as usual your review is interesting because you go into it in more detail and notice things that I hadn't noticed. For me, the main problem is that Doctor Who is presented as a science-fiction series, but the Weeping Angels are a fantasy concept. They were already unbelievable in "Blink", and here they get even worse. I mean, an image of an Angel becomes an Angel? An Angel gets lodged in your eye? No way: this is not going to happen in the real world. John McEnroe moment: "You cannot be serious!" It makes me wonder how Moffat envisions his audience. I mean, this fantasy nonsense suggests that he's aiming his stories at small children, who might solemnly believe it all; but surely there's also stuff in his stories that would go over their heads, and implies an adult audience. Maybe he thinks he has an audience of adults with the credulity of small children. (Is he right?) Oh, I also dislike the crack.
I am with you on the use of the Angels. The more they used them the less interesting and scary they were to me. And this episodes were kind of "meh" for me. Something to watch while making dinner but nothing really needed to understand the Doctor Who universe.
Strictly speaking, TBBT is wrong, at least they are on one part. Assuming you are referring to the events playing out exactly the same had Indy not been there, which I'm sure you are. Indy being there made one difference, probably two.
@@lwaves I'm not enough of a diehard fan of either to press the point. But that's where I heard the trope (Is there a particular name for it? Useless hero?) first expressed properly.
@@menachemsalomon I'm sure there's a trope for it, there seems to be for everything else but I don't know it's name. I'm sure I'd heard it before TBBT but that seems to be where it became a well known 'thing' in general. You don't need to be diehard to know the two bits I talk of. The 'probably' bit is that when the Germans went to get the medallion from Marion's bar, they probably would have killed her, seeing as she'd never willingly give it up. No Indy, so no one there to help her escape. The definitely different bit is that without Indy's presence, the ark would have been left on the island and not put in the warehouse by America's 'top men'.
Hi how you doing, I was just wondering, how do you access classic dr who episodes because I am thinking of watching them for the first time but I’m not sure how. Thanks 👍🏻
Andy Ainsworth no worries. Modern who is easy, classic who can be a nightmare to look for and buy, especially people that aren’t in the UK. I am, but I’ve heard in places like America, classic who is rare to come across.
Jay Stevens yeah I’m just doing some research about it and looking on the CEX website but it’s so different to Modern era because instead of single episode stories, each story can have between 2 and 4 parts. I’ve certainly got a lot to learn and watch if I want to do this properly 😂😂😂
@@andrewainsworth9246 Be careful with CEX. Do your research into them before you use. I can't tell you not to, they do sell genuine items but they also have a reputation for dodgy, non-legit items too that are sold as legit. They also stamp the covers/cases with their logo, so reselling after is difficult if that's something you're thinking of.
My favourite part of this story is the very Subtle clue as to whats going to happen which could easily have been just a continuity mistake. I am of course talking about the reapearing Jacket (The Doctor losing his Jacket early on but it breifly appearing in one scene but its not this Doctor)
I remember catching that scene when the episode first aired, at first I chalked it up to a continuity error, but second time round I noticed how much softer The Doctor seemed to be with Amy and wondered if the jacket was intentional, was amazed when my theory panned out to be true.
You all prolly dont care but does any of you know a way to log back into an instagram account?
I somehow lost the account password. I appreciate any help you can offer me.
@Curtis Preston Instablaster :)
@Rocky Jay thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process now.
Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Rocky Jay It did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much, you really help me out!
Where I was disappointed was in us seeing the angels moving. In Blink, it's filmed as though we the audience are part of the story. The angels are always frozen, even when they tipping the TARDIS side to side, because WE are watching them. As soon as we see them move in this story it took me right out of it.
Absolutely. If the angels were stone when we as viewers looked at them, it would explain a lot of things in this episode like the Angel freezing after it grabbed the Doctor's coat. I didn't mind being able to see actions of the Angels, like when they were moving the Tardis in blink or seeing them move under a sheet or whatever. Being able to actually see them move was disappointing to me.
YES. The "Fridge Horror" of them not moving when no one but me was looking was a huge part of what made Blink the masterpiece it was. This episode ruined the Angels.
For me that's like saying Aliens ruined Alien. They made up a Queen! New ideas! Hoards of aliens doing smart things like knocking out the power- what are these new abilities? Ruined!
If your going to sequel something you sequel it up, you add new ideas, you can't just repeat all the tricks you did first time out. In Blink the camera acts as a viewer, in Angels it does not its just a impartial viewpoint. Its a choice to change how they shoot them in order to tell a different story. That seems necessary to me or it would just be a repeat of the same ideas, concepts and story as Blink.
@@pettytyrant2720 fair enough, I can see your point of view. But in my opinion the fact that the viewer never saw them move is what made them so terrifying, and so to change that took something away from their impact as a villain. Also, as the video says, its a bit inconsistnant during this 2 parter.
The first Moffat two-parter was -The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances- The Curse of Fatal Death :P
I forgot *That* was a 2 Parter!!!
They said the first in the moffat era not the first overall
Well technically the doctor's presence is required because without him the Angels wouldn't have been lured back onto the ship. Angel Bob was at the bottom of the catacombs by the time the clerics got inside, and the angel horde was restored by the time they reached the top of the catacombs.
Without the doctor the clerics would have been killed at the end of the first part, and the angels would have been free to leave, since they had no need to go back into the ship where the crack was, and the ship was damaged and therefore useless for them escaping the planet with.
I do agree with you in terms of the angels rules being run fast and loose with. Something good about blink is that the Angels freeze even in the sight of the viewer, they are always shot like the viewers are an active character. They seem to have tried to do that with the angels here, with them freezing with the doctor being caught like you said, because the angels hand is in the shot. But then when they do the Amy walk like you can see segment, they show them actively move, and throw it all away and its just stupid.
Also about that walk like you can see segment, goddamn does it break the lore that was set up before. They are quantum locked, the fact that they turn to stone when seen is explicitly told to us as being an automatic reflex, not something they do by choice. It is something they have absolutely no control over and is their greatest defence mechanism (until you get sledgehammers and disintegration tech) but also their greatest weakness. And yet apparently they choose to turn to stone near Amy because they think she can see. No. I'm sorry, but they would know if she can see or not instantly, because if she can they would turn to stone, and if she can't then they won't. That is how you have told us this works. In addition they are running scared, the doctor says that just before. If they can actively choose to go stone, then they wouldn't do so there because the crack is actively closing in on them and they are supposed to be running in fear of it, they wouldn't do something that forces them to stand still.
You answered your own question here- the Angels were afraid and running- the Doctor explicitly tells Amy that, and that they won't stop to bother her if they think she can see. In otherwords they are not wanting to be stopped or slowed, they want away. The Doctor doesnt say they will freeze thinking she can see them, only they wont bother her, that they will ignore her. Which they do until she falls then those who are passing her at that time notice they arent turning to stone and therefore she can't see them and move in for her.
@@pettytyrant2720 What you just said contradicts what happens. Like you said, the doctor said they wouldn't bother to stop for her because they are running. And yet the explicitly do stop for her when they don't have to. As I said, the turning to stone is something they have no control over as far as we have been told, it is an involuntary reflex in response to being seen. What you are telling me happened is that the Angels saw Amy there, and actively chose to stand still next to her. But they are running away in fear, why the hell would they stop when they don't need to?
@@TheShadowofDragons They stopped because she was acting oddly, they stopped on the way by, see the angel who is actually passed her but cranes its head and neck round back the way to look at her to see why, and when she fell they stopped to grab her. And whilst we are told that they turn to stone involuntarily in sight of others, we are not told one way or another if they can choose to do so as a defense or if they are uncertain of events. Or knowledgeof them is limited, and at that to what the Doctor an unreliable narrator tells us about them. The ones around Amy are not 'frozen', not stone, they are stopped, just as the ones listening to the Doctor at the crack are, we know this becuase the Angel with Amy moves its head whilst otherwise standing staionary. So it cannot be frozen.
On the ship with the "get a grip" statement, I thought he turned off the gravity on the ship which was the genius move.
Things the doctor did:
River would’ve died
The crack wouldn’t of been there because it’s following the doctor
The priests wouldn’t have got on the ship and that means the angels would have a reason to be on the ship as the energy was flooding that catacombs
The cracks aren't following the doctor
They are just all across the universe, as the exploding TARDIS is exploding everywhere in the universe at once.
Doctor Who Religion the crack was following the doctor, the doctor explained it was following him because he needed to go into it to get it to close permanently
When the Angels 'freeze' when they have the Doctor by the coat I don't think they are frozen, they have made the very stupid mistake of stopping to listen to what he has to say. They are not frozen just listening. Hence why when he runs away he makes a jibe about how they shouldn't let him talk.
When it comes to the gravity thing the Doctor does do something- he leads the angels to the very top of the ship- the bridge- its highest point so they will definetly fall and do so into the crack - which is itself placed high up the ship in the oxygen-forest before the bridge, so the Angels had to be above it to fall into it, and they were mainly located below that point in the ship as we saw.
The Doctor's plan was to lead them up passed the crack before the gravity gave out so they would fall into it. Also why he is so desperate to get Amy to the bridge first or she would too.
If he hadn't continually taunted the Angels throughout into coming after him the Angels wouldn't be in a position to be threatened by the crack, or of falling to their doom into it and temporarily closing it.
Agreed on having more with the other soldiers, however at same time I find it hard to pick what I'd lose to make room for it.
I don't think Moffat thinks his audience is stupid, I think he thinks a sizeable chunkof it is 6, 7, 8 years old or younger (I started on Pertwee aged 3). Even in classic important plot points are often repeated or have a wonderful 70's over-dramatic over long lingering zoom in on the radation reading/ticking bomb etc to make sure the young audience caught its relevance to the plot. It might seem to be needlessly over doing it to me now as an adult, but it worked just fantastically when I was a kid. And I'm sure it still does.
If they are not frozen, they shouldn't be stone.
They still look like statues when we see them move in the forest around Amy, so there is nothing indicating they have a different outward appearence when not frozen, only that when observed they freeze. There is nothing to say in that scene they have turned to stone (other than ones within his immediate field of view) and that instead they are simply not moving, as they listen to him talk. I think this is backed up by the Doctor's dialgoue upon escaping their clutches.@@BaloonBoy7
I came here to write the same thing about the plot points.
Also, it's specifically mentioned in this episode that these angels are afraid and freeze when it's unnecessary for them to.
But yeah, they were listening and it comes up later that they wanted the Doctor to sacrifice himself. They didn't want to zap him to the past.
@@pettytyrant2720 I know, and I thought that was really stupid. THey are only supposed to be stone when observed
@@BaloonBoy7 Well we are only told they turn to stone, not that they don't have a stone like appearence to start with. We have to assume they still look like stone angels observed or otherwise, but only actually turn to stone and beocme fixed when observed.
The 'you're a genius' line works fine as River saying the Doctor is a genius for figuring out about the gravity, rather than it being a part of a plan (if you don't think he had planned it)
Fun fact: This was when I was first propeely introduced to River Song. My first impression of her was that River was the Doctor's Catwoman. I am so happy that I was right!
Donna and Amy, the doctor works well with gingers
Randomly, he does!!! And Vincent Van Gogh!!!
Marion Baggins I wonder if that’s why the doctor wants to be ginger
I wanted to slap Amy in this one, she was so dense, how many times she said, whats happening, explain
IMO it’s one of those stories where I don’t really care for it, but when I watch it I actually enjoy it. I don’t love it though. I still think Blink is the best Angel story.
I wanna see a story explore the angels history with timelords, maybe set in a snowy and foggy world where the timelords were doing experiments when they first got hold of time travel and the angels were a byproduct of the experiments. Or maybe they’re dead timelords, maybe there’s some justice system where timelords get thrown into the time vortex and some sort of mutation went wrong and creased angels. ANYTHING. I just think their next big story should explore the history, otherwise the angels won’t be that talked about anymore as (IMO) each time they’ve appeared they lost more and more value.
That's somewhat true but Blink is a hard story to beat, Flesh and Stone and Angels Take Manhattan are still great stories. Don't you think exploring their history would take away their mystery and intrigue?
“I don’t have a plan, but people like when I say that. Hope something good happens and take credit for it, that’s usually how it works.” - The Doctor, a later episode.
I love this story except for seeing the angel moving. I like to imagine that when people aren't looking at them the transform into a Lovecraftian horror. Seeing them stay as statues but move dispelled that which is a unfortunate.
Clara froze them when she jumped in the doctor's timeline
That seems like a ret con
That seems like an extreme level of bullshit.
I always was under the impression was that we "the audience" saw them and that's why
@@meris8486 It was
Great headcanon.
I did dislike “the image of an Angel becomes an Angel” because it felt like it was meant to make us scared of our TVs and it just did not work.
I bet it would've scared the shit out of me if I'd been 8, but I agree. It was pretty silly. Maybe they reproduce by standing in front of school trips. They get a bunch of new angels from sketchpads with arms growing out of their heads and stuff.
Watch Blink again, the photo in the end.
I mean it probably scared little kids,I’ll make my little sister watch it and see if she cries
Not every image, but any image.
I think the Angels work better Earth bound, which is why I personally preferred Angels Take Manhattan, even as crazy doodle as the Angel of Liberty was.
Every issue you have with this story, I don't have so this story is near perfect for me and better than blink.
The problem with The Weeping Angels is not fan involvement with Blink. It's just the fact that Blink was either a complete fluke, the story was stolen, or Moffat completely lost touch with what made them scary. They are essential scifi jump scares with a time element. That means you should never see them: (1) Move (2) Speak (3) Walk (4) Physically harm (5) Rationalize (6) Fail to advance rapidly when you BLINK. This 2-parter was terrible, but it's okay to like it anyway if it floats your boat.
In addition to what you already said, it always bugged me that way that when you see the Weeping Angels move at the end and still look to be made of stone. The way they were said to "turn to stone when seen" in Blink made me think they'd revert to a more ethereal or hellish appearance when they can move, and I always kind of liked the mystery of not quite knowing what their true appearance looked like.
Hello sweetie. ♡♡♡ These two episodes always made me feel conflicted for the many reasons you mentioned. I always feel terrible for Angel Bob but he chastised the Doctor from beyond the grave telling him he was wrong. The death was painful and he was frightened. The Doctor lied to him. The Angle used Bob's voice to demoralize everyone and guilt shame the Doctor.
This is a family show, meaning it’s accessible to everyone of all ages... and 8-10 year olds sometimes need to be told something more than once to understand it. Prisoner Zero was able to use the crack to escape because it’s 1000 year old multidimensional creature. Prisoner Zero’s guards weren’t able to use the crack in the same way, they had to track the message they sent to the doctor. But the doctor jumped ahead 12 years, which is why they show up not long after that. The crack was on Amy’s side, sucking away at her life, so Prisoner Zero wouldn’t have been in danger until it came through on Amy’s side, and found it was unable to use the crack again to escape elsewhere. If it tried, that’s probably when it would have been eaten by the crack. I don’t know, it’s not inconsistent to me. I felt and still feel the crack is Moffat playing completely fair and square with his audience, everything feels like it makes sense and has been consistent (in-show at least) once you get to the finale. But that’s just me 🤷♂️
The thing about Moffat pushing the "this is the clever bit, do you get it?" once more than necessary- he does that with EVERYTHING. All of Hell Bent is a prime example, the little "clever bits", some jokes, etc.
This is one of the all time best stories, better than Blink. Very intense, great acting from all involved. The second part, when they are escaping the Angels and Amy is counting down to zero is absolutely fantastic. The resolution is well done and the opening scene in part one with Kingston and Smith is great. Almost perfection for me.
I can't watch this right now but I went ahead and liked it because Nathaniel is awesome. I don't always agree with the nitpick but I always admire his love of Who. Thankyou Nathaniel.
Ill always enjoy this 2 parter whilst not perfect getting Doctor River and Amy together for the first time always feels special
Considering this was the first eps filmed for s5 I think Matt does really well for his debut and you wouldnt think these were his first go's
On topic of Moff thinking audience are stupid I'd say the UK audience was at the time through s5 and mostly in s6 people moaned the show was too complicated and difficult to follow even though if you paid attention it's very easy to follow the narrative
I also I love Amy Pond as a character also. But I think your selling Rose a bit short. Yes she does have a bit of a jealous streak, but she comes to terms with it. A good example of this is when she speaks with Madame de Pompadour & her reaction is something yo the effect of "he was right about you" - acknowledging she was in the presence of someone exceptional. And in the episode with Sarah Jane they end up on friendly terms. Oh I almost forgot to say I think a video on the Crack is a good idea.
The image of an angel was probably the best addition/twist/update they could have done to them without diminishing it
Remember when watching this review
DON'T BLINK
River's a lot different in the opening. She's more of a femme fatale, but Alex plays both characterizations well.
I'm so glad you've said this about the inconsistency of the cracks in time - I've been saying it to myself for years. Why, in Craig's flat in 'the lodger' when there's a crack, and there's a crack in Chucrchill's basement, and their energy doesn't leak out and erase people from Time, why does that happen to Rory in 'In cold blood'?
I always assumed that the angel that grabs the Doctor froze because the future Doctor from season finale (Who we knows traveled back there because he interacts with Amy) was looking at them.
Although that doesn’t explain why earlier Doctor didn’t wonder why they froze.
Philip Hawkins it was Clara traveling though the doctors timeline that froze them and the doctor was to busy to go back and think of that moment
Love your reviews!
I enjoyed all the appearances of the Weeping Angels through Amy and Rory’s departure.
The extra frustrating thing is that at least a couple of these problems could have been so easily fixed; one line about there being different kinds of cracks, one line emphasising that the Doctor is luring the angels in front of the crack.
OK, this is my headcannon on the cracks: Firstly, I am basing the timeline on the doctor personal timeline since the creation followed his and the TARDIS's path thru time. The cracks were caused by the destruction of the Tardis/rebuilding of the universe. Were are going to say that is the starting point in time. The farther in time from the initial forming of the cracks the less dangerous they are cause the explosion energy dissipates the farther from the center of the boom. Rory got taken by the cracks it was very close to the creation(still in the bright flash and most force of the blast), so he AND his existence got wiped out. But Prisoner 0 and the time lords, were even farther and used them as portals since the "blast energy" had dissipated by then. The cracks were just the aftermath at that point.
@@xenon8117 I get your point on the time, that is why if you look at the explosion as the center moving out in time following the Doctors timeline. Basically, 10 years after and 10 before are the similar as 10 feet in a physical direction, since the explosion was in time and space. You can follow the series as the timeline, not the dates/years they traveled too. So Rory was a couple of weeks away from the explosion, prisoner 0 was months away. The Doctor is jumping around time, so his perspective of time is the one the cracks/damage followed not the linear calendar.
The doctor brought the weeping angels IN the byzantium, so he did do something
12s in “bad green screen affect”
The part of this episode that worked for me the least was the Amy ACTING like she can see the Angels (even though she can't) causing them to freeze. Like....what?!?! I thought the freezing was a "fact of their biology"
I really like this story up to the point the wall slides up and we see the forest, after that any threat from the angels is erased as they fail to operate how they're supposed to over and over until the end.
15:43
Don't forget Doctor Who is technically a kids show.
It's a family show but I agree with the point you are making. He doesn't explain it one time too many because he disrespects the intelligence of the audience. He does it because there are kids watching, some very young, and he wants them to get it too. It's also for the dimwits who don't pay attention and then moan about the show on the net afterwards. ;-)
An angel in front can't move because the angel behind it can see it. This could be why they only can move when the lights are out
I think this is great, almost as good as blink. Full Fat Videos did an essay explaining its merits much better than I could.
6:15 Sally had a picture of an Angel tho. Kinda gives Blink a darker ending, since they both probably died, but it ended perfectly anyway.
Wasn't the picture in the file she gave to the Doctor though?
@@wendyheatherwood Yes I've read the theory that this is how the Doctor wound up encountering the Angel that sent them to 1969.
@@TheBlackSaint I've never heard that theory before, but I like it.
@@wendyheatherwood - ooo true
I agree about the discrepancies of the Angel's. But when River is around, I'm in. :) great review!
I really enjoy this story.
Something I always feel the need to point out, when its brought up.
Apart from the very cringe scene at the end of the story, I dont see any evidence that Amy "had the hots" for the doctor.
I think she was very confused about her upcoming nuptials, the doctor was there and she wanted to experiment! After what we learned later in "let's kill Hitler" I think it's fair to say Rory is the only man Amy has ever been with.
She adores Rory, but shes very different from him. He knows what he wants so why waste time. Amy knows she loves Rory, but at the time, settling down, getting married, living the quite life in the quent little village isn't what she wants, she extrovert, excitable and craves excitement and adventure. She feels in order to be with the man she loves she has to suppress that side of her personality. At that moment in time shes in the middle of seesaw and doesn't know which way shes leaning. A quick night of passion with the handsome adventure would surely help her make her mind up. I honestly think if the doctor had been game, she would have deeply regretted it.
Any who back to the story. The reason I like it, is because it makes the angles scary! I never thought they was scary in blink. Blink is a fantastic time travel story, but I never viewed the angles as threatening. "The only psychopaths in the universe to kill you nicely" they didn't seem that psychotic thought. "Hungry looks very much like evil, from the other end of the fork" "they feed on time energy" "they're scavengers"
Until this story I thought the angles were just hungry, and lonely. They cant touch or interact with anyone, even there own species.
All they do is send you back in time and they only do that because 1 they cant help it. 2 they're hungry. This story shows us how psychotic they actually are.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure once the angles have the doctors jacket, and he runs off, they turn there heads and are now looking in the direction hes running, whereas from the pic you showed without the doctor in the middle they would be looking at each other, so shouldn't be able to move. again could be wrong, but I'm sure this story only explains the new things they learn about the angles but doesn't go over what we learned already. If a fan had only started with season 5, they would probably be pretty confused to what the angles are.
About Moffat spelling out his stories too much. I do sometimes people forget that the show is also written for a younger audience. If you're writing with children in mind sometimes you do have lay out a few more breadcrumbs, I honestly think in the situations you mentioned the audience was supposed to cotten on before the team did. Its half the fun, when the reaslisiotin hits you before the characters, especially for kids.
I do get what mean though. I've always said Moffat is like the doctor. Hes brilliant, but sometimes he needs someone to stop him. I really think he needed someone like Davies to read through his scrip, and have the balls to tell him "no"
He writes amazing stories, I feel he needs someone to guide him a little in execution.
I like Amy better than Rose....I think because Amy comes off more mature in nature.
My theory about the angels still being frozen when the Doctor's not watching them is that we, the viewers, count as someone watching them. That seems to hold true for every episode they're in: the only times they move are when the camera is off of them or when the lights go out.
the intro was just so cool
I personally love this episode, only a few things bother me.
~ I hate it when the angels turn their heads to look at Amy. I don't mind that they don't notice that her eyes are closed, they have no need for her time energy if they were to displace her in time so they aren't interested. It's just when they turn their heads to look at her when she fell. It completely contradicts the entire quantum lock idea established in blink.
~ I agree that the extra characters such as the soldiers should've had more personality. That's all I can say about that. :)
I love River and Amy and Rory so much
Same!!! They are my Favourite Family in Doctor Who!!!
That intro was so cheesy I love it
I definitely agree with a lot of your points here. Another note to add I really don't like the scene at the end where Amy sexualy forces a snog on the doctor where he makes it perfectly clear he doesn't want to. That's very much SA
13:56 As Grrrrrreeeeeat as Frosted Flakes? ;)
Good Tony you did there :D
For weeks I thought I'd spotted a continuity error - the Doc has his jacket on when speaking to Amy from behind, after having it removed earlier. When I saw the final episode, I realised Moffat *is* mostly cleverer than me. Mostly.
I disagree with the angels being well used here, mainly for one reason. Seeing the angels move in the scene where Amy had her eyes closed and was 'walking like she could see' took away a huge element of what I found scary about them. In general I enjoy this story, but this element bugs me. Not knowing how the angels move, and not really understanding the angels was part of what made Blink so impactful, and that was ruined here.
Not to mention that the quantum lock was supposed to be out of their control which is why them looking at each other worked. It was supposed to happen when they were observed. Pretending you can see them shouldn’t have done anything because the quantum lock wasn’t based on whether the Angels thought they were being observed.
Xenon But then “figuring it out” shouldn’t have been a factor at all. The angels don’t control their quantum lock. It is an automatic process that kicks in when they are being observed. If they could control it the ones trapped in Blink by their own sight could have just turned it off. The angels didn’t need to realize that Amy couldn’t actually see. The quantum lock simply wouldn’t have kicked in because she wasn’t actually observing them.
Xenon The entire premise of Blink falls apart if the Angels have any kind of conscious control over the Quantum Lock which should make tricking them into using it irrelevant as it doesn’t work that way.
The stone angel guys should have just been a one-off villain. They just fell apart from the 2nd story onwards.
Stone angel guys?
Stone angel guys?
STONE ANGEL GUYS?
weeping angels
you'll get yourself arrested talking like that in public
@@BaloonBoy7 I'm not in public, although time travel is illegal here so you might be correct. I'm sorry I couldn't remember their name at the time, I have a lot of irl things to remember, as well as a lot of inotrl things to remember.
I agree with all of what you said... but the two heads one head revelation was fantastic imo
This is kind of drawing hate from future worse episodes but if every photo of an angel becomes an angel the world would end. How many post cards of the Statue of Liberty are there?
I actually had a really hard time watching this video because I really like this episode. And yeah, it has flaws but River/Amy/Doctor dynamic is SO GOOD. Though having now watched your review, your points are all valid. Though I thought the coat/Doctor thing was also a light thing, angels seem to be light shy as well as sight driven. I remember the angels freezing when the light comes back on. Though I don't think it's explicitly stated anywhere so that could be head canon.
This would have been a super one-episode story without the crack, which feels like it was shoehorned in there to drive the season arc.
It was how they got away.
So why can't you just destroy an Angel when it's frozen?
Because that's how powerful they are.
I would've vastly preferred the Angels' defeat if it was written so that the Doctor was luring them to a specific position which would cause them to fall in the crack once the gravity is drained.
Once again I stayed up way to late just to watch an episode I was excited for. I love river w Amy the first time. And I love the weeping angels anyway. And I think it's just interesting.
I think this is one of those stories that definitely has plotholes and inconsistencies, but there's just so many awesome moments that I don't even care.
"Walk like you can see" was dumb though.
i think 11 said something about how the cracks were a point in time not meant to be or whatever the hell it was. but the cracks aren't really meant to exist, so I personally can accept that if its not really meant to exist that there are no rules its meant to follow. it can be a portal one day and a WMD the next
Have you ever thought about doing a ranking of the multi episode stories? Bit of a different idea and would be good to see where multi episode stories would land in a top 10/ every multi ep story ranking
This is probably my favorite weeping angel story
This is honestly one of my favourite episodes of series 5 heck even the whole Moffat era
The angels froze each other at the end of Blink. They were in a circle around the TARDIS, then froze when the TARDIS left.
Watched this again last night after a sisters of mercy gig. Always loved this episode (s) and I still do. doctor who's aliens compared to blinks alien. I loved aliens and I love this. Mat's doctor is terrific, Amy is superb, river is amazing, the priests are deeper than expected. The angels are menacing and dangerous and I love when the angels start to move when Amy is "blind" love future mat and I really like the cracks and how bleak and scary it felt. Love this series and love these two episodes specifically.
Yeah I get the cracks change how they work but I never cared about that. I think u read a little too much into it at times. Why did they freeze because plot hahaha
11:55 I think you are overreacting a little bit with this example and being too nitpicky. I never felt tricked into thinking, he was such a genius and that he planned that in advance. I ALWAYS interpreted it as him being lucky and recognizing it right then and there. And River's phrase was just a sign of relief to the fact!
Otherwise I mostly agree with your opinion!
18:35 Thank GOD you still mentioned that! I was right about writing another comment, because I think this small little detail in that scene doesn't even get ENOUGH praise!
Why do I think that? .... BECAUSE I ACTUALLY NOTICED IT UPON MY VERY FIRST VIEWING OF THE EPISODE!
I always thought, that was either a mistake or it means something, but that scene felt definitely important....
I'm so glad that blooper came up lol
I always forget that the Applans have two heads and I've never twigged that they have two head so Moffat has overestimate my intelligence in this case.
Regarding the Doctor's jacket, doesn't it work that he doesn't see them but we do, hence they freeze. We, the TV viewer, count as someone looking at them. That's how it worked in Blink, so why not here? Unless I'm forgetting something.
I think river said "you genius" in sense that he (the doctor) realised what was happening
I had a nightmare that i bought a painting of a forest. there was this dark spot in the distance in the painting that made me feel uncomfortable. in the dream when I slept I could hear this terrifying shrieking in my dreams. then when I look closer into it I notice the outline of a statue. a few days later someone else points out the statue of a weeping angel in the painting and when i look its far larger on the painting. then one day its the focus of the painting, it was like it was getting closer. then in the night the power in my house goes out so I light a candle, theres a breeze but no windows are open. it feels like its coming from the painting but I convinced myself it was just my imagination.. the candle flickers in the breeze meaning the painting is occasionally not visible in the light. then i notice a stone hand reaching out of the painting. i stare at it and run to the door. the door however is locked and the key won't work. i turn to see a snarling angel frozen halfway out the painting then the candle is blown out and i feel an ice cold touch on my shoulder. the last thing i remember from the dream was waking up in the stormy ocean struggling to swim in freezing water as i sink i finally woke up from the nightmare and damn did it make me want to see this in an episode of who.
I really wish there could be shorts or something that's about the Doctor & Co chilling.
My head canon they freeze if they have eye contact with another living creature (In Blink when the Tardis disappears they are looking directly across at another. And the image of an angel has to do with the specific technology to used in the camera that is being viewed through.
I never liked that we see the angels move in flesh and stone. Isn't it weird that they stay rock? They're supposed to turn to stone when seen, but they don't stop being stone as they move. That's always bothered me.
I do like this story but I agree with a lot of what you said also I'm glad you like amy as amy is my favourite companion
I love this episode but I don't see another appearance of the Weeping Angels topping the idea that Lady Liberty is one.
What bugged me the most in this episode was when Amy was walking around with her eyes closed. She was supposed to act like she could see to trick the angels. When the angels figure it out and we can see them moving that is what I had a problem with. We should never see them moving. Also, they are only supposed to turn to stone when being viewed. We shouldn't see a stone statue moving because they are not supposed to be stone at that moment. There are other things wrong like you had mentioned, but this one was my biggest issue.
Hmmm... maybe the finale Doctor is the one looking at the Angels in that moment, from far away. He's going back making sure things go. It's a long shot but I think it probably fits if you really want it too; I'll have to rewatch it.
Never thought I'd say something in defence of this story.😆😆
For the most part I enjoy this story, the only things that bother me is the Doctor's costume continuity as this was the first episode shot. For most of the Tardis scenes and Amy's bedroom, Matt's hair is shorter and tidier than the rest of the story
I always wonder what the soldiers plan to deal with the Angels was. Why bring worthless guns? Why not pocket mirrors and duct tape?
I think Moffat/Gatiss in general have other characters overpraise their protagonists. Look at all the shit everyone lets Sherlock get away with because he's the cleverest person who ever existed.
Matt Smith who made Bow ties and Fesses cool
I didn’t like when you could see the angels move as they still looked and sounded like stone and the whole thing is that they’re supposed to be living things when noones looking
I guess if the ending was trying to fool me, it succeeded--I thought the Doctor did do something to take away the gravity and make the Angels fall into the crack, but I didn't quite understand exactly what happened at the time. Now I know why I didn't understand what the Doctor had done--he hadn't actually done anything.
I need to re-watch this one. I loved the character of Octavian, and this was from before I got sick of River. But that's one of the reasons I haven't re-watched it--by the end of Matt Smith's run, I was thoroughly sick of her. Plus, I never have bought either the in-story explanation of the cracks and how they tie in with the story arc of the following series, nor Moffat's further explanations he's given in interviews and such. And this is a crack-heavy episode, that is to say, they play a major plot role here, whereas in most Series 5 episodes, such as The Beast Below and The Vampires of Venice, they basically have just a cameo. So I'll probably like this one a lot less if I re-watch it than I did originally (and it wasn't one of my favorites to begin with).
How do the angels reproduce? Are they blindfolded?
My headcanon is that they aren't really living beings in the same sense as you or I. New Angels "grow" out of time paradoxes and the like.
@@ErekLich I like it.
I think the resolution that the doctor actually effected nothing was a good, interesting and even very realistic solution to the alltime Problem of Doctor Who: How do we create a threat, that is huge and scary, but can still be realistically stopped by the Doctor?
Here, Moffat created a situation, where the doctor couldn't save everybody, he couldn't even stop the angels. He just found himself in an impossible to win situation and just tried to get his friends and everyone else out there alive.
You always say, that you are not fond of the doctor's reputation, and I think this worsens his reputation by a lot.
He made a wrong call, lost a lot of lives and wasn't even the one to stop it.
I think through all of these factors, Moffat showed the threat of the Angels off brilliantly, while still showing the Doctor creatively getting out of situations.
This episode started what ended up being a VERY wrong theory for me and my wife. River and Amy have good chemistry in this episode, and others throughout the season, so we started shipping them when we first watched as-aired. The reveal of the nature of their relationship wasn't till series six, and ikes, did we feel squicky when that came to light. But here, and in the finale? Even in the beginning of series six? If you don't know, and couldn't know, yeah....
You should do a video about Sony wanting to remake The Princess Bride.
Well Moffat's always been quite adamant that Doctor Who is first and foremost a children's show, so perhaps the extra clues are written for an audience less versed in film and television language
I heard a saying once. Davis wrote for 40yo house wifes. Moffet wrote for 12yo kids. Chibnal writes for the modern Smartphone audience...
9:35
I thought they had their eyes closed.
I have mixed feelings about this story too, but as usual your review is interesting because you go into it in more detail and notice things that I hadn't noticed. For me, the main problem is that Doctor Who is presented as a science-fiction series, but the Weeping Angels are a fantasy concept. They were already unbelievable in "Blink", and here they get even worse. I mean, an image of an Angel becomes an Angel? An Angel gets lodged in your eye? No way: this is not going to happen in the real world. John McEnroe moment: "You cannot be serious!" It makes me wonder how Moffat envisions his audience. I mean, this fantasy nonsense suggests that he's aiming his stories at small children, who might solemnly believe it all; but surely there's also stuff in his stories that would go over their heads, and implies an adult audience. Maybe he thinks he has an audience of adults with the credulity of small children. (Is he right?)
Oh, I also dislike the crack.
I am with you on the use of the Angels. The more they used them the less interesting and scary they were to me. And this episodes were kind of "meh" for me. Something to watch while making dinner but nothing really needed to understand the Doctor Who universe.
I guess you thought about TBBT's commentary on _Raiders of the Lost Ark,_ and thought to apply the same reasoning here.
Strictly speaking, TBBT is wrong, at least they are on one part. Assuming you are referring to the events playing out exactly the same had Indy not been there, which I'm sure you are. Indy being there made one difference, probably two.
@@lwaves I'm not enough of a diehard fan of either to press the point. But that's where I heard the trope (Is there a particular name for it? Useless hero?) first expressed properly.
@@menachemsalomon I'm sure there's a trope for it, there seems to be for everything else but I don't know it's name.
I'm sure I'd heard it before TBBT but that seems to be where it became a well known 'thing' in general.
You don't need to be diehard to know the two bits I talk of. The 'probably' bit is that when the Germans went to get the medallion from Marion's bar, they probably would have killed her, seeing as she'd never willingly give it up. No Indy, so no one there to help her escape. The definitely different bit is that without Indy's presence, the ark would have been left on the island and not put in the warehouse by America's 'top men'.
TBBT? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.
@@HelenWheelsUtah The Big Bang Theory - the TV show.
Hi how you doing, I was just wondering, how do you access classic dr who episodes because I am thinking of watching them for the first time but I’m not sure how. Thanks 👍🏻
Andy Ainsworth CEX, dailymotion, some American websites, buy them, charity shops, HMV, TH-cam sometimes has them, eBay, Amazon, britbox etc.
Jay Stevens alright thanks man I’ll give it a look
Andy Ainsworth no worries. Modern who is easy, classic who can be a nightmare to look for and buy, especially people that aren’t in the UK. I am, but I’ve heard in places like America, classic who is rare to come across.
Jay Stevens yeah I’m just doing some research about it and looking on the CEX website but it’s so different to Modern era because instead of single episode stories, each story can have between 2 and 4 parts. I’ve certainly got a lot to learn and watch if I want to do this properly 😂😂😂
@@andrewainsworth9246 Be careful with CEX. Do your research into them before you use. I can't tell you not to, they do sell genuine items but they also have a reputation for dodgy, non-legit items too that are sold as legit. They also stamp the covers/cases with their logo, so reselling after is difficult if that's something you're thinking of.