Brilliant! Your ingenuity blows my mind Sean. I watched your old wood stove videos in the past and I know just how much more efficient you made your setup. I’m sure it will be noticed and get improved more and more here too! Stay cosy mum. Love from Ireland. 😊💚🙏🔥✨
Your video was really helpful. My mother's house has the same wood stove and every time I used it I felt a cold wind from all parts of the house which was uncomfortable, but after watching your video and introducing outside air in the same way, I was able to solve the problem.
Cool, one of those things that after implementing you think 'Why didn't I do this years before?' :) another upgrade could be to automatically regulate the intake flow with a thermostat or something like that.
We had a wood stove a few years ago. I have thought of many ideas over the years to modernize a wood stove system. I thought that a wood stove could heat the house more affecting if they had a ventilation system to push the heat around the home. I like the idea of the air intake you came up with too. I have also thought of a wood gasification system might be a good system as well. With wood gas the burn would be much cleaner. Imagine a system that could heat your house and power it as well.
My work is in energy efficiency of old homes (in France). I’ve seen my share of strange additions and double walls... but you’ve got yourself a zigsaw puzzle there at your mother,s. This simple intake vent should make a nice difference !
There are small fans that just sit on top of a wood burning stove that are activated by the heat of the stove top. They are unpowered so they work even during a power outage. They are very effective at distributing the heat throughout the house.
Thanks for sharing! I have a fireplace in my home that I’d like to replace with a wood burning stove insert. The fireplace is built into a wall that backs up against my garage. Ive been wondering if it would make sense to run an intake pipe from the garage into the stove rather than chase that pipe another 10-15 feet to a true exterior wall. I’m interested to hear more about how this project works out for you & your mom. Thanks again for all the great inspiration. An older video of yours gave me the inspiration years ago to eventually install a wood burning stove. Now that I’m getting to a point where I’m (almost) ready for that project, you’ve got an update that is also super applicable for me. Synchronicity at its finest!
Yay! I think it is super reasonable to route the intake into a garage space and pull from there rather than a super long path to 'true' outside. Just my 2c, get more opinions, but it seems very reasonable
@@edibleacres I tend to agree with you. But I am still a year or so out from making the upgrade so I’ve got time to do a little more hw around it. Likely I will start with intake from the garage, while leaving myself the option to extend the pipe outside eventually if I fell the need. (Also a concept I learned from your channel!)
Right on! I had herd this before but didnt realy think it was so important. Thank you for explaining it so well! perfect timeing I'm just reinstaling a stove now. I just watched your older video on inproving your wood stove eficiancy yesterday and then you post this one today haha perfect Thanks !!😁
I'm visiting my mother across the country and she's got a pellet stove in front of a fireplace in the family room, which is now her bedroom downstairs. She doesn't use it anymore cuz it'll be too hot. It's been really cold in there and the kitchen. I just found the source yesterday coming from behind that back plate against the wall, as well as at the bottom where the hole goes into the chimney. My sister and I blocked the airflow by completely covering up the pipe on top of the chimney (which we could reach from the balcony). Now, no more cold drafts! Hopefully it'll also bring down her power bill.
And by the way your idea is awesome. I wish mine old one had a hole in the back. I don’t even know how i could cut . Seems very thick. Also my stove has double wall sides and back, maybe for circulate air to warm
Certainly if the stove doesn't have a hole to accept this kind of treatment it would be a big question if you should make one!! You could always route outside air to very near the front of the stove. If you light incense and slowly move it around the stove when it is running it will show you exactly where it takes most of it's breath...
Be sure to put a pan of water, or two, on top of the hot stove. Because the extra humidity in the room, from evaporation, can hold more heat and it will certainly feel more comfortable. I evaporate two gallons a day this way and the air is very comfortable.
Please DON'T. You are adding 2 gallons of water per day into your house structure. All that water likely works its way through the leaks in the house, and condenses inside it where the temperature reaches the dew point. This is going to cause rot and mold. Contrary to popular opinion, wood stoves and other heat sources do NOT reduce humidity in the house. The main way water is removed from the house is by being evaporated, and that air leaving the house through cracks (or the chimney). A well sealed house will not need any moisture other than what is provided by the normal activities of the occupants. In fact, a really well sealed house will need heat retaining ventilation to keep the humidity from getting too high.
@@CorwynGC I've been heating my 4,000 sqft geodesic dome home with a single wood stove for the last 25 yrs. My stove is about the same size as in the video and live in freezing Minnesota. Built in 1984, it's not as air tight as I would like, however there's no issues to report so far. Humidity stays around 40-50%.
@@domicile3 I have been doing energy audits for 18 years and have seen first hand the damage that adding water to a house can do. One client had to replace an entire side of the house because of the mold and rot inside the wall. Another client got rain in their bedroom from moisture condensing in the attic space. If you have been lucky so far, it is just that, lucky. On the other hand, when was the last time you opened up the wall and checked on the conditions inside?
Great idea for the air intake, as well as blowing the air around the stove into the room with that channel. Our stove is an insert and has a blower that does similar on it that really heats the place up alot. We don't have an air intake other than a hole, with a cold air return grate on it that draws air from the basement, in the floor next to the stove. It seems like drawing the air into the cavity of a wall like in the video could also draw the humidity from outside leading to condensation on the interior of the walls, and perhaps elsewhere along its path, which could encourage the growth of mold.
That is a reasonable question/concern to have and something I'll have to monitor and keep an eye on. I suspect I may ultimately revisit this routing and take it further and out the window.
I am more worried about the cold, and moisture from inside. Anytime the stove is running, it is pretty much certain that the outside air is drier than the inside. However, cooling off that wall cavity could well drop the temperature in it, below the dew point of the warm moist inside air, causing condensation on those surfaces. The safe thing to do is ensure that you are controlling air flows to only spaces you specifically choose, sealing and insulating them from other portions of the structure.
In addition to the points you made about positive pressure and pulling cold in air from any gaps, isn't a regular wood stove also pulling in the hottest possible air (the air it just heated in the room closest to the wood stove) for combustion and then sending it up the chimney? In theory, I think the small upgrade should make a pretty big difference for a number of reasons!
It doesn't make much difference. The stove needs to heat that air up to 400-600°F before it goes up the chimney. Drawing air from a slightly warmer area reduces the amount of heat needed to reach that temperature, leaving more for the room. The outside air does help, if the pipe is short enough or insulated; adding one to a cooler section of the room would not.
@@CorwynGC the stove needs oxygen, which can get sort of depleted if the house is tight. It will suck air in around the windows and doors, making a draughty house.
@@sueyoung2115 The stove (if well adjusted) needs about 15 cfm of *air*. An average leaky house has about 150 cfm of leakage under normal conditions. So, a stove isn't making an average house any more drafty. A tight house might be around 15 cfm (that's the Passivhaus upper limit), and would *require* outside air for the woodstove (and the designer would try to convince the owner not to put one in). But most people have never been in a house that tight. The air in the house will never get depleted of oxygen, at worst it will get depressurized (but then the fire will backdraft or smoke and someone will fix it), the stove can only take in air, not oxygen.
Outside air, in the winter, in places that need woodstoves, is generally very low absolute humidity. It is easy to confuse that with relative humidity (which is what is generally discussed). Right now, here, it is snowing and the *relative* humidity is 90%, but it is 29°F outside, and the dew point (a measure of *absolute* humidity) is 26°F. If that air is drawn inside and warmed to inside temperatures, it would have a *relative* humidity of 20% (hence why people put pots of water on the stove).
hello, I have a tin fireplace and it has vermiculite inside, wouldn't it give and retain heat longer if I replaced it with chamotte? I understood that vermiculite has an insulating role.
How has this held up? Thinking about a install with the air being drawn in from the top of my attatched garage that is't air tight. Any major drawbacks from pulling it from a large inside space vs exposed air? Thinking it may keep garage slightly warmer since the cold air would be fed into the house.
I can't offer specific advice to others for all sorts of reasons, but I can say our setup has been beneficial and I would absolutely do it again if I am ever in a situation where I can. What it does to air temp/quality/dynamics in the garage I can't say. The good news is it is low cost and easy to install and you can learn how it works and decide if its a fit or not...
I had a double flu chimney in the center of my super insulated octagonal house. The wood stove was in the lower level and wouldn't burn unless I opened the clean out at the bottom of the opposite flu. ( That one was for the direct vent propane stove ) we only used one flu at a time so it was safe. Worked like a charm to draw down fresh, outside air that was even pre heated, around the outside of the inner gas outlet, to the wood burner.
By installing a fresh air intake you will lessen the negative pressure and cold air infiltrating into the house through windows and doors but your house but by NO means will it cause a positive pressure in the in the house. If the install is done properly and the stove door seal is good the operation of the stove will have no effect on the interior pressure of the house. Negative or positive.
If you do this How do you control how fast the stove burners, my air tight controls combustion with dampers on the doors with no way to control the outside air flow, wouldn't that be like burning the stove with the doors wide open. And allowing too much are into the stove?
No... Your controllers would act the same way and have the same effect with this setup. This isn't increasing pressure or adding a fan or anything pushing more air in, just offering the stove a different place to breathe from if that makes sense
Thats fine, I would personally think this would be quite useful on a drafty home in particular! Reduce all the cold drafts coming in. So maybe ideal for any situation? :)
Great video. Thank you for this. I suppose if the extension was so poorly sealed to the house then it’s not likely to be sealed to the outside work so that cavity space would be drawing from the outside through a vent brick or something. Would be great to get some advice on installing a wood stove. Is it something you can do yourself or do you need to get professionals in for the install and then make upgrades like these yourself? Do you have a carbon monoxide alarm just in case?
I wouldn't want to advise on installing woodstoves... Making minor tweaks and upgrades I'm happy to share about, but basic installation makes sense to be between you and a certified person.
There is a con to a fresh air intake . When the stove is not in operation the whole stove and chimney pipe become ice cold and can make the room feel cool. ( The stove sort of becomes like a huge ice cube sitting in the room) If your stove runs non stop 24/7 than this is not really an issue . I have been burning wood for just shy of 40 now and have gained a fair bit of insight on wood stove operation. I have a well insulated and well sealed 5" fresh air intake pipe on my set up . After many years of experimenting and observing the operation of my stove I opted to disconnect the fresh air inlet , the main reason being , as I mentioned the stove becoming an ice cube when not in operation. Having said that , each and every home has its own peculiarities with regards to outside air infiltration and are all different. Wind direction and barometric pressure can also can have an effect on how your stove starts and burns. I guess what I am saying is you need to spend time figuring out the best way to run your own stove because every set up is not the same. It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing. Good luck , I hope you get the results you are after. You just can't beat wood heat !
I hear you. We have the stove running all winter basically since it heats our home exclusively in our place. Having a way to shutoff the intake would be helpful... good note
good idea. in the case of leading the Intake outside, I would consider a damper to close it completely or partially. in my opinion metal stoves heat up quickly but also cool down quickly, so they require constant burning of wood. in my house I built a rocket stove mass heater. this design requires less fuel and maintenance. It takes a lot of work but in the long run it's worth it (sorry for the mistakes, I'm using the translator):) stay warm and safe:) p.s. in Poland It's raining when it should be snowing...
I would really enjoy having a rocket mass heater, I've explored them extensively... Some day perhaps we'll build our own home and that almost certainly would be our heat source...
You should get a IR thermometer and check the temperature of the wall that you have attached the pipe to. It could easily be the case that you are drawing cold air into that cavity and reducing the temperature of that entire wall surface, negating any improvement elsewhere. If you know someone with an IR camera, that would give a better idea of what is going on in that wall.
I get what you are saying... I suspect if that wall gets cooler it still wouldn't negate the other benefits, since most of the reduction of comfort came from ice cold air sliding across the floor towards the stove which is super uncomfortable. A cold wall near a super hot stove isn't too bad, but I get 100% why we'd want to know and to be thoughtful about, thank you for the idea
Would the cellar now be colder instead or basically no difference? Or would you need the cellar door open anyway during cold nights, to not freeze any piping?
If Sean had routed the pipe to the basement, then yes, the basement would be cooler. Most basements have enough contact with deep ground that they never reach freezing temperature. Most pipe freezes I have seen are in the path of an air leak. Seal the basement well, and you shouldn't have freezing problems, even if you insulate the basement from the rest of the house (which you probably should).
I can't say for sure, but I suspect this pipe terminates now in a space that is between two sections of the home, not really in the basement. I believe/hope it is pulling air from the outside through this space. We'll have to see...
Here there's a pit behind the house for the chimney from the basement wood stove exclusively heating the house. Next winter it'll be a cold cellar. The idea is to simply build a deck with a trap to drop firewood down a slide straight into the basement after fixing the door down there. It would take no time to rig something like you've done. I'd never considered that. Thanks for showing us. The other project is heating water with the wood stove so I can shut off the hot water tank for about 7 months. Key is not overproducing hot water, so perhaps integrating storage drums for thermal mass would suffice.
@@edibleacres Passive convection, a bleed off at the tank, another at the high point, and ensuring that the hot water gets used to keep the temp within a safe range are key. I'll look into a temp controlled valve that sends water to storage drums for thermal mass and balancing the system. There are do's and don't's for sure.
In this case it terminates right in the wall cavity there as I described... I had intended it to run all through the basement and out the window but it just wasn't going to make logistical sense...
That gap that you showed at 6:29: might be able to be easily filled with a tiny amount of "Great Stuff"*tm or generic. Test it on something else first. You will be surprised how much it expands. You will most likely want to over fill it by a very small amount, and then trim it off with a knife, saw, or razor. Pretest everything, and don't sure me, lol.
Yep, certainly some deeper improvements to be made, but for now if the stove can positively pressurize the space effectively with this change then the leak magically doesn't matter (for now :)
@@edibleacres A leak in a positive pressured house is just as bad, if not more so, than in a negatively pressured house. Now, the warm moist air is exiting through that leak, and dropping off that water when it reaches a part that is below the dew point. In reality, most houses have incoming leaks and outgoing leaks, which can switch roles depending on wind, and temperature stratification in the house, etc. And you don't want any of them.
@@CorwynGC a leak is a leak, as you said, whether it’s incoming or outgoing depends on the specific conditions at any time. Whether or not a leak is something that is attractive or not- I’ve seen people (some professional builders) make really good cases make good cases for both sides. Like most things in life, there is truly no “one size fits all”. Ultimately it depends on the specific context. Edited to add another point: I would not consider air that’s being heated via a wood burning stove to be “moist”, at least not in the climate of winter in NE USA. While wood fires are less drying to the air that other forms of heating- like HVAC, it’s certainly removing moisture from the air. Not adding moisture.
@@justinp1773Building science is pretty much all on the no leaks side. Builders who can't achieve that make excuses. No form of heat is capable of removing moisture from the air. Humidity is lowered in two ways 1) by replacing the air with drier air, 2) by condensing water on a COLD surface, and then moving the water. Short of hot enough to break the chemical bonds, there is no way for a heating system to lower absolute humidity.
Pull attic air. Its warm. Just run a pipe up the wall into the attic. The pulling draft from the wall will maybe get enough if the top wall plates are missing or unsealed, but if it is sealed up pretty well it will just pull from all of the corner leaks in the wall and from the wall penetrations like receptacles and switches where they are cut in. Natural gas appliances pull attic air for intake air as its outside of the conditoned space.
That is a great hint.... Tough to act on since it would be a pretty raw looking run of tube to go up and into there, but something to keep in mind if this doesn't work well over time and we need to re-design..... Thanks.
It's too late as you've already bought the thermostat etc. but you can buy small fans that sit on the stove and work with the heat from the stove. Saves a little and stops relying on electricity or batteries.
Oh right, i didn’t even remember what i wrote lol, no I didn’t mean expend on a new stove. So here is the thing i have an old one that doesn’t have that hole at the bottom back like yours. So its only openings in front of the door. I was asking what could I do in order to install an outside air intake. Would you have ideas? Perhaps a video showing possibilities for like me add outside air? I have it inside a old fireplace. I even though about cut hole on the back and drill hole in the floor to bring air from crawl space. But would be hell of work. Also though about bring air from up the roof, but I don’t know if would work. Also actually I don’t wanna cut the stove. I have no money for new one. And the stove weights a lot, i got no one to help take it out. I don’t even imagine how it was installed before. Its owned home
I am VERY sure this is not an airtight home by any stretch, air can move for sure. During the season where mold can grow we have windows open quite a bit
Not so. What you REALLY want is an air tight home with a heat retaining ventilation system. The problem with obtaining your fresh air through cracks is that those cracks are where mold grows, so you are filtering all your breathing air through mold before you breathe it. A heat retaining ventilation system not only provides fresh air, but it warms it with the heat from the exiting air. 85-90% efficiencies are common. Mold needs moisture, so when a house leaks, the warm moist air leaving through cracks eventually is passing through portions of the house structure which are below the dew point of that air, so the moisture condenses. Often this is inside the wall, which provides the moisture mold needs to grow. Now when the pressure is the other way, air from outside goes in that same crack and passes through the mold picking up the spores and delivering them to your waiting lungs.
How about somehow turning it into a masonry fireplace/masonry heater which have been around since ancient times? Not that I would know the first step about how to do it but masonry heaters are without a doubt more efficient than wood stoves and use a lot less wood to produce much more heat. The down side is that the fireplace needs to be a lot bigger than a wood stove but again, requires a fraction of the amount of wood to provide the same amount of heat.
Fascinatingly, it does use electricity. There is a thing called a Peltier device which takes a temperature difference to produce a voltage difference (or takes a voltage difference to produce a temperature difference). That voltage powers a small motor to turn the fan. If you spun the fan by hand, you could cool one side of the plates, and warm the other.
Not really. The air that the stove is using is replaced by air from outside. If that wasn't happening the stove wouldn't draw, and smoke would be filling the house. It would take an amazingly tight house to reduce the pressure enough to affect your breathing, even if the stove was capable of doing that.
I want to argue about it creating stronger heat gradients with the stove consuming all your fresh cool air that v creeps along the floor straight to your oven and reheating the warmer air and the strong gradient reducing them mixing, but I'll admit it's more guesswork than knowledge. I'd still think it's better to have a controlled air output for the warm "consumed" air and have the cool air heat up slowly and mix with the older warm air.
@@Tsuchimursu Happy to have that argument with you. 🙂 It is complicated and depends on local conditions. The thermodynamics of the woodstove, taken as a black box, don't change much for outside air or inside air used for combustion. The advantages of outside air are: 1) the ability to better seal the house, 2) control over where incoming air enters the house/stove, 3) the ability to close off the vent when not in use, 4) better air flow through the stove in a well sealed house.
I was looking for videos , or woodstoves , for mobile home use. Most of the videos are installing a regular woodstove 😢. External air please. Not all stoves are made fir mobile home use.
Assuming that the 'fresh outdoor air' is not passing through spaces filled with mold, sure. "Seal tight and ventilate right" is the mantra of the sustainable building trade.
NEVER EVER use flex pipe ...SOLID ducting every inch for safety reasons ie. a dog or kid stepping on it & crushing it ..there goes your air intake and resulting/present negative pressure will either shut down stove and or smoke will pull into the house through secondary intake vent IF stove is relatively not up to operating temp and or not dry/seasoned/ or wet firewood in box smoldering,, all bad with possibly disastrous smoke damage outcome if nobody home at the time. Also tape? ' COM MON MAN how long B4 that adhesive unsticks? Good temporary fix but totally sub par Note: This is a growing problem & a good place for wood stove mfg's to address this issue with newer homes being airtight and building codes must include a robust kit with every stove sold period, I can go on but point made
Have you EVER HEARD ABOUT BACK DRAFT.WELL ,THE WAY YOU VENTED THIS JUST BETWEEN THE WALLS FROM THE ADD ON ROOM. YOU BETTER FIND THE OUT SIDE. IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE ON THE WOOD STOVE IN THE HOUSE AN A BACK DRAFT HAPPENS IT WOULD BACK DRAFT HOT FLAMES RIGHT BETWEEN THE WALLS AN START A FIRE. YOUR INSURANCE I WOULD THANK NOT COVER THIS IF A FIRE BROKE OUT. ,,,,,,CHANGE THIS ,GO OUT SIDE.
Why on earth doesn't she replace the old stove with a modern one, which is both more efficient and environmentally friendly? The old ones have been made illegal in Europe because they are both inefficient and highly polluted. A modern one with soapstone costs only $1,300-1,500. And a modern wood-burning stove today emits 70% fewer particles than a modern wood-burning stove did in 2005. One can also save oneself to death, as an old saying goes.
New soapstone stoves cost no less than $3,000 if not much much more. Then what do we do with this stove? Throw it out? The stove heats the home nicely, and with small and effective optimizations runs very clean and offsets needs for consuming fossil fuels quite a bit. I would rather work with what we have and help make it the best it can be than buy a new thing for many many thousands of dollars...
I'm 72 years old and have used wood heating all of my life. We were finally forced to replace our old woodstove with a new "efficient" model. It heats adequately, but uses about a fourth more wood to heat this small house and it smokes like crazy for the first half hour or so. I'm not convinced that new is always better - may be politics involved.
Are you kidding? That's a Jotul f500. It's a very Good Stove! Soapstone means nothing but an exterior cladding. Get your facts straight, you have no idea what you are talking about.
I would bet your wood is not seasoned enough. Modern stoves need moisture content of 20% or less. That usually means seasoned 1-2 years minimum. @@jwilda54
@comonbabylightmyfireburn you enjoy being right so here you go.... Online price for Jotul f500 $4,509 / $5,079. Jotul Wood Stoves - F500 V3 Oslo is a cast iron wood stove steeped in tradition. Oops 😂 now you'll want to argue with me because you can't be wrong.
@@yudeok413 Some libraries make CO meters available to residents. If you are burning stuff in your home, you should have a CO detector. Get one which shows the current CO level, rather than one with just an alarm. At under $100, they are cheap insurance. CO is undetectable by humans (except that it makes you sleepy)
Another drawback of using indoor air for combustion is that that is the air right next to the stove, the same air you just expended expensive energy to heat. You are literally sucking away the warmth you created. Beyond silly design.
Brilliant! Your ingenuity blows my mind Sean. I watched your old wood stove videos in the past and I know just how much more efficient you made your setup. I’m sure it will be noticed and get improved more and more here too! Stay cosy mum. Love from Ireland. 😊💚🙏🔥✨
Thanks 👍
Your commentary, as always, is filled with clarity and precision. A joy to listen to and learn from. Many thanks again, friend!
Many thanks!
I have thought of just running a pipe from outside for years.Nice to see how you implemented the idea!
Certainly not saying everyone should go out and do it, but the upgrade has been positive for us in our home for years now
Thank you for demonstrating this concept.
Your video was really helpful. My mother's house has the same wood stove and every time I used it I felt a cold wind from all parts of the house which was uncomfortable, but after watching your video and introducing outside air in the same way, I was able to solve the problem.
Cool, one of those things that after implementing you think 'Why didn't I do this years before?' :) another upgrade could be to automatically regulate the intake flow with a thermostat or something like that.
Could be a good upgrade
Why? The stove automatically regulates the air as the burn rate changes.
Another ingenious adaptation!
Thank you for addressing this hot 🔥 topic. Good idea using the wall space air.
We had a wood stove a few years ago. I have thought of many ideas over the years to modernize a wood stove system. I thought that a wood stove could heat the house more affecting if they had a ventilation system to push the heat around the home. I like the idea of the air intake you came up with too. I have also thought of a wood gasification system might be a good system as well. With wood gas the burn would be much cleaner. Imagine a system that could heat your house and power it as well.
That would be great!
My work is in energy efficiency of old homes (in France). I’ve seen my share of strange additions and double walls... but you’ve got yourself a zigsaw puzzle there at your mother,s. This simple intake vent should make a nice difference !
I hope it does!
Excellent thinking ...you must Inspire many people Sean... Thanks for the content..
I appreciate that!
There are small fans that just sit on top of a wood burning stove that are activated by the heat of the stove top. They are unpowered so they work even during a power outage. They are very effective at distributing the heat throughout the house.
technically it is powered, the fan spins with power from a tiny thermoelectric generator between the fins and the base that sits on the hot stove 😬
It’s called a stirling engine
Here is mine...th-cam.com/video/GHyufdiduaE/w-d-xo.html
We use that at home and it is quite nice.
@@jknijff Some use a Stirling engine, most use a Peltier module to convert a temperature difference into a voltage difference.
Thanks for sharing! I have a fireplace in my home that I’d like to replace with a wood burning stove insert. The fireplace is built into a wall that backs up against my garage. Ive been wondering if it would make sense to run an intake pipe from the garage into the stove rather than chase that pipe another 10-15 feet to a true exterior wall. I’m interested to hear more about how this project works out for you & your mom.
Thanks again for all the great inspiration. An older video of yours gave me the inspiration years ago to eventually install a wood burning stove. Now that I’m getting to a point where I’m (almost) ready for that project, you’ve got an update that is also super applicable for me. Synchronicity at its finest!
Yay!
I think it is super reasonable to route the intake into a garage space and pull from there rather than a super long path to 'true' outside. Just my 2c, get more opinions, but it seems very reasonable
@@edibleacres I tend to agree with you. But I am still a year or so out from making the upgrade so I’ve got time to do a little more hw around it. Likely I will start with intake from the garage, while leaving myself the option to extend the pipe outside eventually if I fell the need. (Also a concept I learned from your channel!)
Right on! I had herd this before but didnt realy think it was so important. Thank you for explaining it so well! perfect timeing I'm just reinstaling a stove now. I just watched your older video on inproving your wood stove eficiancy yesterday and then you post this one today haha perfect Thanks !!😁
So glad these feel useful to you...
I'm visiting my mother across the country and she's got a pellet stove in front of a fireplace in the family room, which is now her bedroom downstairs. She doesn't use it anymore cuz it'll be too hot. It's been really cold in there and the kitchen. I just found the source yesterday coming from behind that back plate against the wall, as well as at the bottom where the hole goes into the chimney. My sister and I blocked the airflow by completely covering up the pipe on top of the chimney (which we could reach from the balcony). Now, no more cold drafts! Hopefully it'll also bring down her power bill.
I hope so too!
And by the way your idea is awesome. I wish mine old one had a hole in the back. I don’t even know how i could cut . Seems very thick. Also my stove has double wall sides and back, maybe for circulate air to warm
Certainly if the stove doesn't have a hole to accept this kind of treatment it would be a big question if you should make one!! You could always route outside air to very near the front of the stove. If you light incense and slowly move it around the stove when it is running it will show you exactly where it takes most of it's breath...
very nice stove
Looks like a Jotul stove to me if you´re interested.
@@jeroenmichiels1067 sis-in-law might be thanks,
Better than what my step grandfather had. It was straight metal all the way around.scary
She's a Jotul Oslo (F500). 450 lbs of cast iron Norwegian beauty that I wish was in my living room!
Be sure to put a pan of water, or two, on top of the hot stove. Because the extra humidity in the room, from evaporation, can hold more heat and it will certainly feel more comfortable. I evaporate two gallons a day this way and the air is very comfortable.
Yep, We do that at home and I need to help encourage her to do that with this stove
Please DON'T. You are adding 2 gallons of water per day into your house structure. All that water likely works its way through the leaks in the house, and condenses inside it where the temperature reaches the dew point. This is going to cause rot and mold.
Contrary to popular opinion, wood stoves and other heat sources do NOT reduce humidity in the house. The main way water is removed from the house is by being evaporated, and that air leaving the house through cracks (or the chimney). A well sealed house will not need any moisture other than what is provided by the normal activities of the occupants. In fact, a really well sealed house will need heat retaining ventilation to keep the humidity from getting too high.
@@CorwynGC I've been heating my 4,000 sqft geodesic dome home with a single wood stove for the last 25 yrs. My stove is about the same size as in the video and live in freezing Minnesota. Built in 1984, it's not as air tight as I would like, however there's no issues to report so far. Humidity stays around 40-50%.
@@domicile3 I have been doing energy audits for 18 years and have seen first hand the damage that adding water to a house can do. One client had to replace an entire side of the house because of the mold and rot inside the wall. Another client got rain in their bedroom from moisture condensing in the attic space. If you have been lucky so far, it is just that, lucky. On the other hand, when was the last time you opened up the wall and checked on the conditions inside?
Hopefully you stick with covering this topic in a future video for an update video :) cheers
Great idea for the air intake, as well as blowing the air around the stove into the room with that channel. Our stove is an insert and has a blower that does similar on it that really heats the place up alot. We don't have an air intake other than a hole, with a cold air return grate on it that draws air from the basement, in the floor next to the stove.
It seems like drawing the air into the cavity of a wall like in the video could also draw the humidity from outside leading to condensation on the interior of the walls, and perhaps elsewhere along its path, which could encourage the growth of mold.
That is a reasonable question/concern to have and something I'll have to monitor and keep an eye on. I suspect I may ultimately revisit this routing and take it further and out the window.
I am more worried about the cold, and moisture from inside. Anytime the stove is running, it is pretty much certain that the outside air is drier than the inside. However, cooling off that wall cavity could well drop the temperature in it, below the dew point of the warm moist inside air, causing condensation on those surfaces.
The safe thing to do is ensure that you are controlling air flows to only spaces you specifically choose, sealing and insulating them from other portions of the structure.
In addition to the points you made about positive pressure and pulling cold in air from any gaps, isn't a regular wood stove also pulling in the hottest possible air (the air it just heated in the room closest to the wood stove) for combustion and then sending it up the chimney?
In theory, I think the small upgrade should make a pretty big difference for a number of reasons!
Thats precisely correct and why indoor air-breathing stoves are such a dumb idea.
Yes, it is in my opinion a crazy move to not do this
It doesn't make much difference. The stove needs to heat that air up to 400-600°F before it goes up the chimney. Drawing air from a slightly warmer area reduces the amount of heat needed to reach that temperature, leaving more for the room. The outside air does help, if the pipe is short enough or insulated; adding one to a cooler section of the room would not.
@@CorwynGC the stove needs oxygen, which can get sort of depleted if the house is tight. It will suck air in around the windows and doors, making a draughty house.
@@sueyoung2115 The stove (if well adjusted) needs about 15 cfm of *air*. An average leaky house has about 150 cfm of leakage under normal conditions. So, a stove isn't making an average house any more drafty. A tight house might be around 15 cfm (that's the Passivhaus upper limit), and would *require* outside air for the woodstove (and the designer would try to convince the owner not to put one in). But most people have never been in a house that tight. The air in the house will never get depleted of oxygen, at worst it will get depressurized (but then the fire will backdraft or smoke and someone will fix it), the stove can only take in air, not oxygen.
Outside air is high in moisture which will promote rust inside the stove when it's not burning, but connecting to an unused room is perfect.
Outside air, in the winter, in places that need woodstoves, is generally very low absolute humidity. It is easy to confuse that with relative humidity (which is what is generally discussed). Right now, here, it is snowing and the *relative* humidity is 90%, but it is 29°F outside, and the dew point (a measure of *absolute* humidity) is 26°F. If that air is drawn inside and warmed to inside temperatures, it would have a *relative* humidity of 20% (hence why people put pots of water on the stove).
Good logic thanks my issue for sure.
You could also look into adding a catalytic element to the exhaust .. a little bit more room heat for the same amount of wood input.
hello, I have a tin fireplace and it has vermiculite inside, wouldn't it give and retain heat longer if I replaced it with chamotte? I understood that vermiculite has an insulating role.
I'm not sure about this... Sorry I can't be of assistance
Give a thermo'dynamic fan a try! They are surprisingly cheap now
How has this held up? Thinking about a install with the air being drawn in from the top of my attatched garage that is't air tight. Any major drawbacks from pulling it from a large inside space vs exposed air?
Thinking it may keep garage slightly warmer since the cold air would be fed into the house.
I can't offer specific advice to others for all sorts of reasons, but I can say our setup has been beneficial and I would absolutely do it again if I am ever in a situation where I can. What it does to air temp/quality/dynamics in the garage I can't say. The good news is it is low cost and easy to install and you can learn how it works and decide if its a fit or not...
I had a double flu chimney in the center of my super insulated octagonal house. The wood stove was in the lower level and wouldn't burn unless I opened the clean out at the bottom of the opposite flu. ( That one was for the direct vent propane stove ) we only used one flu at a time so it was safe. Worked like a charm to draw down fresh, outside air that was even pre heated, around the outside of the inner gas outlet, to the wood burner.
Sounds very optimized! Certainly nicer than this simple setup :)
@@edibleacres simple problem , simple answer. Simply awesome!
Great video. Does anyone know why stoves are not built like this any more? What’s up with that? 😬
I suspect there are stoves like this around...
By installing a fresh air intake you will lessen the negative pressure and cold air infiltrating into the house through windows and doors but your house but by NO means will it cause a positive pressure in the in the house. If the install is done properly and the stove door seal is good the operation of the stove will have no effect on the interior pressure of the house. Negative or positive.
THanks for your notes here!
If you do this How do you control how fast the stove burners, my air tight controls combustion with dampers on the doors with no way to control the outside air flow, wouldn't that be like burning the stove with the doors wide open. And allowing too much are into the stove?
No... Your controllers would act the same way and have the same effect with this setup. This isn't increasing pressure or adding a fan or anything pushing more air in, just offering the stove a different place to breathe from if that makes sense
I would only recommend this on a modern well sealed up house
Thats fine, I would personally think this would be quite useful on a drafty home in particular! Reduce all the cold drafts coming in. So maybe ideal for any situation? :)
Great video. Thank you for this. I suppose if the extension was so poorly sealed to the house then it’s not likely to be sealed to the outside work so that cavity space would be drawing from the outside through a vent brick or something. Would be great to get some advice on installing a wood stove. Is it something you can do yourself or do you need to get professionals in for the install and then make upgrades like these yourself? Do you have a carbon monoxide alarm just in case?
I wouldn't want to advise on installing woodstoves... Making minor tweaks and upgrades I'm happy to share about, but basic installation makes sense to be between you and a certified person.
I never imagined that a wood stove would suck cold air into the house. I just figured there was enough air in the house to circulate.
Please please please do a follow-up. I need to convince hub that this is a worthwhile hole in the wall...
We've had this type of installation where Sasha and I live for 7+ years and it is so so worth it in our opinion, I hope this helps with your case :)
There is a con to a fresh air intake . When the stove is not in operation the whole stove and chimney pipe become ice cold and can make the room feel cool. ( The stove sort of becomes like a huge ice cube sitting in the room) If your stove runs non stop 24/7 than this is not really an issue . I have been burning wood for just shy of 40 now and have gained a fair bit of insight on wood stove operation. I have a well insulated and well sealed 5" fresh air intake pipe on my set up . After many years of experimenting and observing the operation of my stove I opted to disconnect the fresh air inlet , the main reason being , as I mentioned the stove becoming an ice cube when not in operation. Having said that , each and every home has its own peculiarities with regards to outside air infiltration and are all different. Wind direction and barometric pressure can also can have an effect on how your stove starts and burns. I guess what I am saying is you need to spend time figuring out the best way to run your own stove because every set up is not the same. It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing. Good luck , I hope you get the results you are after. You just can't beat wood heat !
I hear you. We have the stove running all winter basically since it heats our home exclusively in our place. Having a way to shutoff the intake would be helpful... good note
good idea. in the case of leading the Intake outside, I would consider a damper to close it completely or partially.
in my opinion metal stoves heat up quickly but also cool down quickly, so they require constant burning of wood. in my house I built a rocket stove mass heater. this design requires less fuel and maintenance. It takes a lot of work but in the long run it's worth it (sorry for the mistakes, I'm using the translator):)
stay warm and safe:) p.s. in Poland It's raining when it should be snowing...
I would really enjoy having a rocket mass heater, I've explored them extensively... Some day perhaps we'll build our own home and that almost certainly would be our heat source...
insulating the duct would be a plus!
You should get a IR thermometer and check the temperature of the wall that you have attached the pipe to. It could easily be the case that you are drawing cold air into that cavity and reducing the temperature of that entire wall surface, negating any improvement elsewhere. If you know someone with an IR camera, that would give a better idea of what is going on in that wall.
I get what you are saying... I suspect if that wall gets cooler it still wouldn't negate the other benefits, since most of the reduction of comfort came from ice cold air sliding across the floor towards the stove which is super uncomfortable. A cold wall near a super hot stove isn't too bad, but I get 100% why we'd want to know and to be thoughtful about, thank you for the idea
Does having that stove pipe straight up like that reduce the efficiency? Seems like you'd lose a lot of heat right up the pipe that way no?
I think a lot of heat is lost with the stove pipe having no damper
@@edibleacres ok that makes sense. I haven't used a wood stove much so I really have no idea. Thanks for your videos and wisdom.
Would the cellar now be colder instead or basically no difference? Or would you need the cellar door open anyway during cold nights, to not freeze any piping?
If Sean had routed the pipe to the basement, then yes, the basement would be cooler. Most basements have enough contact with deep ground that they never reach freezing temperature. Most pipe freezes I have seen are in the path of an air leak. Seal the basement well, and you shouldn't have freezing problems, even if you insulate the basement from the rest of the house (which you probably should).
I can't say for sure, but I suspect this pipe terminates now in a space that is between two sections of the home, not really in the basement. I believe/hope it is pulling air from the outside through this space. We'll have to see...
Here there's a pit behind the house for the chimney from the basement wood stove exclusively heating the house. Next winter it'll be a cold cellar. The idea is to simply build a deck with a trap to drop firewood down a slide straight into the basement after fixing the door down there. It would take no time to rig something like you've done. I'd never considered that. Thanks for showing us.
The other project is heating water with the wood stove so I can shut off the hot water tank for about 7 months. Key is not overproducing hot water, so perhaps integrating storage drums for thermal mass would suffice.
We'd love to make hot water with our wood stove, I need to figure out how to set that up!
@@edibleacres Passive convection, a bleed off at the tank, another at the high point, and ensuring that the hot water gets used to keep the temp within a safe range are key. I'll look into a temp controlled valve that sends water to storage drums for thermal mass and balancing the system. There are do's and don't's for sure.
Can you show us the output view? How it looks in the basement, please
In this case it terminates right in the wall cavity there as I described... I had intended it to run all through the basement and out the window but it just wasn't going to make logistical sense...
Does it stop from drying the air in the house out
I don't believe it has much influence in that way, but I can't say for sure
What about one of those fans for wood burning stoves that sit on top and run automatically when they get warm; no power consumed.
Those are great, we have one on our wood stove and really like it
That gap that you showed at 6:29: might be able to be easily filled with a tiny amount of "Great Stuff"*tm or generic. Test it on something else first. You will be surprised how much it expands. You will most likely want to over fill it by a very small amount, and then trim it off with a knife, saw, or razor. Pretest everything, and don't sure me, lol.
That expanding foam is excellent for sealing up big gaps. I agree- definitely a good application at Sean’s Moms house.
Yep, certainly some deeper improvements to be made, but for now if the stove can positively pressurize the space effectively with this change then the leak magically doesn't matter (for now :)
@@edibleacres A leak in a positive pressured house is just as bad, if not more so, than in a negatively pressured house. Now, the warm moist air is exiting through that leak, and dropping off that water when it reaches a part that is below the dew point. In reality, most houses have incoming leaks and outgoing leaks, which can switch roles depending on wind, and temperature stratification in the house, etc. And you don't want any of them.
@@CorwynGC a leak is a leak, as you said, whether it’s incoming or outgoing depends on the specific conditions at any time. Whether or not a leak is something that is attractive or not- I’ve seen people (some professional builders) make really good cases make good cases for both sides. Like most things in life, there is truly no “one size fits all”. Ultimately it depends on the specific context.
Edited to add another point: I would not consider air that’s being heated via a wood burning stove to be “moist”, at least not in the climate of winter in NE USA. While wood fires are less drying to the air that other forms of heating- like HVAC, it’s certainly removing moisture from the air. Not adding moisture.
@@justinp1773Building science is pretty much all on the no leaks side. Builders who can't achieve that make excuses.
No form of heat is capable of removing moisture from the air. Humidity is lowered in two ways 1) by replacing the air with drier air, 2) by condensing water on a COLD surface, and then moving the water. Short of hot enough to break the chemical bonds, there is no way for a heating system to lower absolute humidity.
Pull attic air. Its warm. Just run a pipe up the wall into the attic. The pulling draft from the wall will maybe get enough if the top wall plates are missing or unsealed, but if it is sealed up pretty well it will just pull from all of the corner leaks in the wall and from the wall penetrations like receptacles and switches where they are cut in.
Natural gas appliances pull attic air for intake air as its outside of the conditoned space.
That is a great hint.... Tough to act on since it would be a pretty raw looking run of tube to go up and into there, but something to keep in mind if this doesn't work well over time and we need to re-design..... Thanks.
@@edibleacres Well you can do it in the wall but yeah.
It's too late as you've already bought the thermostat etc. but you can buy small fans that sit on the stove and work with the heat from the stove. Saves a little and stops relying on electricity or batteries.
We have that on our stove at home and love it... I plan to get one for her stove too...
Wht about a stove with conventional intake in the front part of the doors?
I don't think we'd want to spend thousands on a new stove at this point...
Oh right, i didn’t even remember what i wrote lol, no I didn’t mean expend on a new stove. So here is the thing i have an old one that doesn’t have that hole at the bottom back like yours. So its only openings in front of the door. I was asking what could I do in order to install an outside air intake. Would you have ideas? Perhaps a video showing possibilities for like me add outside air? I have it inside a old fireplace. I even though about cut hole on the back and drill hole in the floor to bring air from crawl space. But would be hell of work. Also though about bring air from up the roof, but I don’t know if would work. Also actually I don’t wanna cut the stove. I have no money for new one. And the stove weights a lot, i got no one to help take it out. I don’t even imagine how it was installed before. Its owned home
Your great 👍🏾 you do know you don't wanna AIR TIGHT HOME ❓you want some cracks/air flow I. The house so mold doesn't grow. Just saying
I am VERY sure this is not an airtight home by any stretch, air can move for sure. During the season where mold can grow we have windows open quite a bit
Not so. What you REALLY want is an air tight home with a heat retaining ventilation system. The problem with obtaining your fresh air through cracks is that those cracks are where mold grows, so you are filtering all your breathing air through mold before you breathe it. A heat retaining ventilation system not only provides fresh air, but it warms it with the heat from the exiting air. 85-90% efficiencies are common.
Mold needs moisture, so when a house leaks, the warm moist air leaving through cracks eventually is passing through portions of the house structure which are below the dew point of that air, so the moisture condenses. Often this is inside the wall, which provides the moisture mold needs to grow. Now when the pressure is the other way, air from outside goes in that same crack and passes through the mold picking up the spores and delivering them to your waiting lungs.
How about somehow turning it into a masonry fireplace/masonry heater which have been around since ancient times? Not that I would know the first step about how to do it but masonry heaters are without a doubt more efficient than wood stoves and use a lot less wood to produce much more heat. The down side is that the fireplace needs to be a lot bigger than a wood stove but again, requires a fraction of the amount of wood to provide the same amount of heat.
A neat idea but not really practical in this scenario
You’re a very good boy!
the Eco Fan doesn't use electricity just the heat of the stove saving money in the long run.
Yep, we may get one back on the stove
Fascinatingly, it does use electricity. There is a thing called a Peltier device which takes a temperature difference to produce a voltage difference (or takes a voltage difference to produce a temperature difference). That voltage powers a small motor to turn the fan. If you spun the fan by hand, you could cool one side of the plates, and warm the other.
A separate air intake also means you aren't competing with the oven for oxygen to breathe.
Exactly
Not really. The air that the stove is using is replaced by air from outside. If that wasn't happening the stove wouldn't draw, and smoke would be filling the house. It would take an amazingly tight house to reduce the pressure enough to affect your breathing, even if the stove was capable of doing that.
I want to argue about it creating stronger heat gradients with the stove consuming all your fresh cool air that v creeps along the floor straight to your oven and reheating the warmer air and the strong gradient reducing them mixing, but I'll admit it's more guesswork than knowledge. I'd still think it's better to have a controlled air output for the warm "consumed" air and have the cool air heat up slowly and mix with the older warm air.
@@Tsuchimursu Happy to have that argument with you. 🙂 It is complicated and depends on local conditions. The thermodynamics of the woodstove, taken as a black box, don't change much for outside air or inside air used for combustion. The advantages of outside air are: 1) the ability to better seal the house, 2) control over where incoming air enters the house/stove, 3) the ability to close off the vent when not in use, 4) better air flow through the stove in a well sealed house.
@@CorwynGCyes, ignoring the oxygen there are still lots of reasons to do it for sure
I was looking for videos , or woodstoves , for mobile home use. Most of the videos are installing a regular woodstove 😢. External air please. Not all stoves are made fir mobile home use.
Benefit of not doing this upgrade is getting fresh outdoor air and burning dirty indoor air.
Assuming that the 'fresh outdoor air' is not passing through spaces filled with mold, sure. "Seal tight and ventilate right" is the mantra of the sustainable building trade.
That’s what I’m thinking
NEVER EVER use flex pipe ...SOLID ducting every inch for safety reasons ie. a dog or kid stepping on it & crushing it ..there goes your air intake and resulting/present negative pressure will either shut down stove and or smoke will pull into the house through secondary intake vent IF stove is relatively not up to operating temp and or not dry/seasoned/ or wet firewood in box smoldering,, all bad with possibly disastrous smoke damage outcome if nobody home at the time. Also tape? ' COM MON MAN how long B4 that adhesive unsticks? Good temporary fix but totally sub par
Note: This is a growing problem & a good place for wood stove mfg's to address this issue with newer homes being airtight and building codes must include a robust kit with every stove sold period, I can go on but point made
Hot air is more combustible according to diesel mechanics.
Have you EVER HEARD ABOUT BACK DRAFT.WELL ,THE WAY YOU VENTED THIS JUST BETWEEN THE WALLS FROM THE ADD ON ROOM. YOU BETTER FIND THE OUT SIDE. IF YOU HAVE INSURANCE ON THE WOOD STOVE IN THE HOUSE AN A BACK DRAFT HAPPENS IT WOULD BACK DRAFT HOT FLAMES RIGHT BETWEEN THE WALLS AN START A FIRE. YOUR INSURANCE I WOULD THANK NOT COVER THIS IF A FIRE BROKE OUT. ,,,,,,CHANGE THIS ,GO OUT SIDE.
Why on earth doesn't she replace the old stove with a modern one, which is both more efficient and environmentally friendly? The old ones have been made illegal in Europe because they are both inefficient and highly polluted. A modern one with soapstone costs only $1,300-1,500. And a modern wood-burning stove today emits 70% fewer particles than a modern wood-burning stove did in 2005. One can also save oneself to death, as an old saying goes.
New soapstone stoves cost no less than $3,000 if not much much more. Then what do we do with this stove? Throw it out? The stove heats the home nicely, and with small and effective optimizations runs very clean and offsets needs for consuming fossil fuels quite a bit. I would rather work with what we have and help make it the best it can be than buy a new thing for many many thousands of dollars...
I'm 72 years old and have used wood heating all of my life. We were finally forced to replace our old woodstove with a new "efficient" model. It heats adequately, but uses about a fourth more wood to heat this small house and it smokes like crazy for the first half hour or so. I'm not convinced that new is always better - may be politics involved.
Are you kidding? That's a Jotul f500. It's a very Good Stove! Soapstone means nothing but an exterior cladding. Get your facts straight, you have no idea what you are talking about.
I would bet your wood is not seasoned enough. Modern stoves need moisture content of 20% or less. That usually means seasoned 1-2 years minimum. @@jwilda54
@comonbabylightmyfireburn you enjoy being right so here you go.... Online price for Jotul f500
$4,509 / $5,079. Jotul Wood Stoves - F500 V3 Oslo is a cast
iron wood stove steeped in tradition. Oops 😂 now you'll want to argue with me because you can't be wrong.
How does this impact air quality of the room? Do you mesure some CO ore dust particles? That would be wery interesting to see. Great video. Love it.
I don't think it's worth investing in equipment for a single or even casual use 😅 unless one can rent this kind of stuff? 🤔
We haven't tested those things with tools, but the air quality in the home generally feels quite good
@@yudeok413 Some libraries make CO meters available to residents.
If you are burning stuff in your home, you should have a CO detector. Get one which shows the current CO level, rather than one with just an alarm. At under $100, they are cheap insurance. CO is undetectable by humans (except that it makes you sleepy)
@@CorwynGC I don't even have a lighter. FL 🤷🏻♂️
Another drawback of using indoor air for combustion is that that is the air right next to the stove, the same air you just expended expensive energy to heat.
You are literally sucking away the warmth you created.
Beyond silly design.
I agree!