Am I correct: you can only adjust the hole front speaker? So i´ve I set a PEQ for Front it will be applied for left and right? Thats a joke and unusable :-(
Thanks Joe for putting this video up. I was registered for the webinar last night but I fell asleep lol (3am in Sydney). Hopefully this will help Audessey compete better with DIRAC but yet to be seen. I think $200 is a worthwhile investment for the hobby we love.
Thanks for the video Joe, interesting software. Is it possible to have farther distances between closest and farthest speaker than 6meters with multeq-x? Or does it have the same limitation as the non-pc audyssey versions?
Very interesting. I haven't watched the entire Q&A yet...but I did look at the Software and the Demo AVR thingy... One thing I noticed is that the curve editor is still a bit finicky... it's nice that it allows you to manually enter Q factor and everything, but it doesn't seem to allow you to drag and drop edit the curve like the app does. Also, the available range of preset curves seems a bit lacking... no Harman curve...but that "Tilt" might be interesting... I am still a bit torn since it is very pricey...if it just gives me the ability to edit a bit more freely, then it's hardly worth it, if it actually corrects more precisely though...
Also...what this really lacks (IMHO) is: a) a measurement of the actual response after the correction has been applied (what we use REW/CARMA for right now) to evaluate the success b) an option to tweak DynEQ by keeping the bass and treble adjustments but not applying the level adjustment to the Surround/Rear/Rear Height Channels.
Yeah I think of it mainly as a large filter bank. For that use-case alone, I think it's worth it for what I use it for. I can get my system sounding awesome with it.
Nearly all room correction just takes a before measurement and predicts the after response. You would need REW to confirm. I have a new app coming out (Magic Beans) that does allow you to do an after measurement from the same app.
This is what I’ve been hoping for! This makes it so much better for D&M owners. It makes the decision between a Dirac compatible AVR/Pre and a D&M device easier (or harder haha). It’s helping improve the audio industry as a whole. And people complaining about it costing $200, you bought your AVR withOUT this feature. So you were ok NOT having it. It costs money to develop it. Your option was they either NOT make it, or they make it and you have the OPTION to buy it. Don’t want it? Don’t buy it. Don’t be a child.
I watched the infomercial on Sound United channel and thought $200 was overpriced. Somehow they failed to mention that it worked on more than the base 7 channels. The Sample AVR in the software is also limited to 7 channels. Working on height and wide channels, I totally agree is well worth the $200. I can sell $1000 in DSP gear now :)
@@georgespiggot8502 I'm pretty sure Joe mentioned it worked on all channels multiple times in this stream, and how you'd need 2x DDRC-88A? to do it before. It's also much nicer having one unit do everything. That's worth $200 to me lol.
@@andrewskaterrr Yep. Much more info in this stream even though it didn't go for as long. Helps when the host doesn't cut the guest off constantly to uptalk their product and get distracted from the point of the stream. I'll be buying the software for sure now I know it works for all channels. $200 is a bargain replacing all other DSP. Will just keep my mini DSP just for subs.
I'm as clueless now as before I watched this video. Why do I want to screw with the curves my AVR measured and generated? I guess this software is not for me.
Yes, I can see how it's confusing. They made this targeted towards professional calibrators and hardcore enthusiasts. The answer to your question is that I might not like the measurement methods or the corrections that Audyssey came up with. I prefer to use my Umik-1, take measurements using various techniques in REW software, and come up with my own correction filters. But I still need a way to input those filters into the AVR and this is how I'm using MultEQ-X. Alternatively, a hardware device that's capable of accepting all those filters for all of my channels would cost over $1200.
@Joe N Tell Looking at the options in the MultEQ-X application, it looks like the app only allows to design target curve for pairs of speakers, like Front and Surround - only Center channel and Subwoofer are treated as individual channels. When analyzing the speaker responses in REW, it is very clear that the frequency responses are different between L and R, or SL and SR. This means that the app cannot really help with properly equalizing each speaker. While I am able to configure REW to play L+R and perhaps treat it as a single response for equalization, this workaround does not work for surround speakers, where only individual speakers can be analyzed at a time in REW. I have been thinking about buying the MutEQ-X app, but this behavior makes me question the idea. What are your thoughts on this?
Jeff Clark from Audyssey says they're working on individual EQ for each speaker. He said it's very doable and you can actually do it if you know how to read and edit the text file. Even Dirac doesn't EQ the left and right channels individually
@@joentell What text file do you mean? The save file from the app is json, but the measurements data is encoded and cannot be edited without knowing how to decode/encode. It would be really great if they could add the feature to EQ individual speakers and to import the PEQs from REW :) It would be even greater, if REW would support this as one of the EQ targets and generate as many PEQs as Audyssey XT32 supports.
How do we extend the microphone? Most high end AVR's that would get this calibration are installed in an equipment rack that can be over 100 feet away from the room to be tested.
I find the $200 ok - the Dirac license would be probably much more expensive. But I do not like to buy the license for exactly my receiver. Can I transfer the licence over to another device (maybe only once per week or such)? For a "professional" guy who is calibrating customers systems, that would be a no go either as they probably not want to license the AVR of every customer... But maybe a "professional" open license is available somewhere.
Joe, I just discovered this new vid at your channel and at the beginning you left me puzzled: what is this about, who’s the guy to the left, what is the subject ? A little more structure would have helped. Just a hint. In general I approve of your relatable approach to clarify difficult subjects.
Does this allow per subwoofer channel EQ? I have a miniDSP that I use with my 4 subs and multi-subEQ. My receiver (Marantz Cinema 50) has 4 independent subs - can I ditch the miniDSP with this? Or is it limited to applying EQs to all 4 subs combined as a single channel? I remember Audyssey treats subs as a single channel in the mobile app
I don't think people are saying they should work for free necessarily, but when Anthems ARC already offers that, and I is included. it doesn't seem necessary for us to pay for it. I'm sure the people at Anthem don't like to work for free either. It's should be part of the feature and benefits of owning a Denon and marantz
At the end of the day, it has to make business sense for the businesses involved. Anthem and Denon and Marantz/Audyssey probably have a different deal. It may suck for us consumers, but what can you do?
Hello Joe, thanks a lot for the video! What do you think about this to get better bass: setting all speakers to LARGE and LFE+MAIN, then use an order 6 highpassfilter for all speakers at 80Hz and use an 80Hz lowpassfilter for the sub. Does that lead to a good frequency seperation of the speakers and the sub? Because I guess that a steep crossover curve is better than a shallow one and that the crossover curve of the built in setting is only order 2 or 4, or is it not? The only downside may be that my celling speakers only go to 100Hz and therefor should be a small gap in signalreproduktion between the 80Hz lowpass of the SW and the inabillity of the celling speakers to go a little lower than 100Hz. Keep up the good work. subscribed ;)
Question. Is this software able to actually measures it's own corrections? In other words, is the "after" curve a measured one, or a calculated one? If it is just calculated, I will still need REW to verify my results.
The feature I'd like to see most is something like the Trinnov 3D remapping tech. I think that will make the biggest difference where most of us in the home theater world can't perfectly place speakers to spec. Second would be an spacial object viewer like the Trinnov.
Hey joe what was that hack for denon and auro 3d? Was it to put your surrounds as rears surround for it to work properly? I have my front set to front hight and rear hight to work with atmos and auro.
Wasn’t there something about setting rears as surrounds? I set up my atmos/auro to front heights and rear heights, also don’t have surround backs just sides, the question is am I good to go?
Hi! Jon....Would you please help me in selecting........ Emotive B1+ vs Wharfdale diamond 12.1 vs Dali Oberon1 Vs POlk R100!!!!! I am little bit inclined towards tight fuller low end bass.Thnx.
So you still can't EQ left & right (mainly front) independently of each other? What if my setup is highly asymmetrical (larger window on one side, opening in the other...)? :/
I say this to equalize downward (so I do it with manual EQ) to not raise the valleys. and if some valleys have to be raised, I will be the one to decide what to do. That option if it is not possible at this time, it seems to me that it is I see a lot of Audyssey screenshots that equalize at 75 dB, many times it raises too many valleys and with a lot of dB. Dirac and ARC Genesis give the option to set the target below 75 dB. (Reference level). Mr Joe N Tell, since you equalize manually, can you confirm that we can equalize downwards below 0 dB? When I say down I am not talking about setting the target at -10 dB, but at -3 or -5 dB for example. All this depends on each room. Written with translator Greetings
I try to cut rather than boost most of the time, but I think it's easy to take that to the extreme. Some people apply huge cuts which causes you to lose headroom and when you turn it up, it's equivalent to boosting anyway. Ideally, you want to EQ in to a reference point where it's mostly cuts, but a tiny bit of boost here and there in the proper locations won't hurt it. You just have to know where.
@@joentell That is clear, but my question comes from what you say in the video that you have spent several hours testing Audyssey MultEQ-X. I put a screenshot taken from the internet to better understand my query. Seeing this screenshot, my equalization (response curve the same for example as the Audyssey forecast) would be between -3 or -5 dB and not at 0 dB. Just look for the moment at the valley between 60-70 Hz pre Audyssey, raise this valley then almost + 9 dB, it will be noticeable to the ear even if it is a narrow valley. As of today, we can set the MultEQ-X target in dB below 0 dB (default reference). Do you understand my question ? www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/audyssey-room-eq-before-and-after-app-results-png.59656/
@@JuanJose-wt5yj that 70hz dip is very common in rooms. I think it's caused by the ceiling height and the corresponding 70hz wavelength. I see that all the time. I don't do any measurements in Audyssey. I do it all in REW where I can set the target level. I just input all my PEQ into MULTEQ-X.
@@joentell What I mean is that Audyssey should in future updates (if it can't now) give the option to lower the target from 0 dB (75 dB which is the Reference level that it equalizes) to what we are interested in, just as it can be done with Dirac Live and ARC Genesis. I have been EQing manually for years with Equalizer APO using the REW RTA ( I don't use REW in automatic ) and always at the end I leave the ear tests of the most complicated part from my Schroeder frequency up to 300-400Hz, EQing filter by filter with its subsequent ear test. I was just curious about the possibility of lowering the target in dB below 0 (default 75 dB reference level). Can you do this test with MultEQ-X as of today?
@@joentell I'm asking because there is different functions in multeq and multeq xt32, such us filters resolution and sub equalasing. Question: is multeq x app brings features of high-end devices to chipper ones?
@@sashaem5508 unfortunately not. I think the software reads your amp and knows it's capabilities. It doesn't add functionality that the hardware isn't capable of.
Same here. Got an Arcam AVR850 but want a receiver with hdmi 2.1 and auro3d. Only reason i decided arcam at the time was sound quality and dirac, but seeing the measurements of the denon 8500 on asr in combination with this announcement really gives me the upgraditis
I’m tempted to switch from Denon to Pioneer for Dirac live but now should I be rethinking this with this $200 upgrade? Does this bring it up to Dirac’s level of room correction? Also does this save me from buying a minidsp for multiple subs?
@@joentell thanks Joe, I’m gonna start to tinker with manually calibrating , need to get a umik-1 first. But if it’s better then Dirac I’ll just stay put with Denon. Yes simplicity is a real bonus for sure, that’s what people are after now a days
Quick question? Do you think the auto calibration yields better results than the multi eq 32xt auto calibration? Meaning greater depth of sound? I seen somewhere the MultEQ X has higher res filters. What do you think?
@@joentell so you’re doing this is basically going back bumping and cutting frequencies to get the yellow after line as close to the 0dB as possible? Seems like that’s basically what you’d be doing to perfect the sound and changing the (Q) width to best align the yellow graph. I’ve always felt like it’s more to be had with my Marantz 8805 sound wise.
@@joentell man that would take a lot of work for sure! I mean I think that’s what the goal would be is to best align to yellow line (after) and smooth it best as possible. I’m glad audyssey came out with this. I think I’m willing to give it a try, I was definitely considering going to Anthem when the avm90 comes out. I still might but I think this may have solved the somewhat lack of dynamics that was still being desired. This should allow me to get what I’m after. Only thing now is sending it in to get the 8k board and I’ll be a happy camper.
Hmmm how much would you charge to do the tuning? If you was to? I’m sure lots of people would pay to have you fine tune their systems. I probably would 😏
Yeah, that would be cool if I could do all the things I do in REW. REW is calculating the PEQ filters based on a target curve. The fact that it's free is awesome. I would be happy if I could just import filters the way I use a MiniDSP.
And that's why i don't understand the 200 dollar price point. Anyone who would buy multeq-x obviously would already have REW that can do leaps and bounds more than "x". They should have brought more features to the table at launch instead of saying "we could do that in the future".
With a more robust editor app (on the pc with a mouse) you could shape your target curve to hopefully get closer to what you are trying to achieve through an extra PEQ .Why do you need this if audyssey is delivering the expected results? You already have to use REW to check the results of audyssey anyway, just reshape the target. I don't think they added enough value over the 20 dollar app. Being on PC is worth about 20 bucks. Getting to customize both flat And reference is worth about another 20. You should have all of your positional EQ stuff figured out with REW before running audyssey. You can use rew to see that some seats shouldn't be included in the audyssey process because they are too detrimental the average.
This new app may be an answer to some issues. But , it's also bringing a really big light to all the inadequate issues with denon/marantz avrs. It even makes one question the microphone that comes with their avrs. I honestly don't think their was sufficient thought and planning before they brought this to market 🤔. I just recently purchased a denon x8500h, the flagship avr for denon and now I find out that the microphone that comes with isn't calibrated and if i want more control I need to purchase an additional $200 dollar app that is only good for my one specific avr. I'm seriously regretting my purchase now. Seriously thinking of returning my denon and buying the Anthem mrk 1140 that is ironically $500 dollars cheaper and doesn't charge for additional similar control. 🤔 I suspect I won't be the only one regretting our denon/marantz purchases.
Anyone know if it's possible, or will be possible in the future, to limit the target curve eq to a certain max frequency but also apply parametric eq above that limit? For example, I'd love to be able to eq to a target curve under say 500hz but also slap on a little -2db dip around 4khz without affecting the rest of the treble.
You could just put in the PEQ filters that will give you the target you're looking for but only up to 500hz or whatever your max frequency is. Then you just put in that dip at the higher frequency.
55 minutes and I'm still a bit confused on the value prop. This seems like $200 for a manual EQ editor? Other processors have this built in for free. And why would you spend hours manually crafting EQ filters when you can have Audyssey do it automatically and just edit the target curve to your needs for $20 with the app?
I can get much better results for various reasons when I do it manually. Auto-EQ is made mostly for simplicity. I don't know of any processors that allow you to put 10+ PEQ filters for each channel. I think about this thing as a giant filter bank. Kind of like a built-in MiniDSP. It's definitely not for most people, just some crazy folks like me.
Now that Im looking at this... .... This looks a lot like another brand software. .... Joe, .. maybe you can compare the software end of this ..because I know the brand won't answer you for a unit.... Anthem ARC software even looks the same as this. .... I'm curious if there was someone at Audyssey that compared and borrowed some of the UI / features ...
The tool is overall ok. But what is definitely missing is ability to edit the target curve like it can be done in mobile app. Entering all these single points manually with Q, gain and frequency - this is not something which I like. All these points can overlap, so it very difficult to achieve the curve shape which I want to see. The tool should allow to draw the curve, allow to put points on it and move it, like in mobile app - then it should calculate automatically required filters and equalization to achieve the result requested by user. Also it is not possible to change sort order of tabs and it is not possible to rename them, which makes edition a nightmare, especially if you have many tabs entered.
My only recommendation is for Jeff to create tutorials on how to use MultiEQ-X and recommended processes and key features as a more valuable use of his time. Instead we spent more time on how it's not intended to be used by a novice user. WTF.
I was so happy about the news...but then i realized thats just 1 license for 1 avr...sry 200 bucks would be ok for a complete license but just 1avr is a joke...
Full price for expensive device Paid that only works to 80% (Hdmi2.1) and now 200 euros for software! Who should afford it? Not everyone is a top earner!
I don't think so because is a paying thing mixed feelings about it, supposedly you get a high quality Mik and audessey out of the box,it could have been for free after the mess up d&m did on the hdm 4k 120hz and 8k they say they fixed it it's more like a work around another cord and an ugly box not a fix and even with adaptor it doesn't work with some lg tvs
Joe, We know it’s your channel, but I’m sure you’re annoying the begeezus out of folk! What’s the point of having an expert on the product and not letting him talk? Would you please let Jeff explain what his product is and does? This is the first one of your uploads that I can’t watch.
Yes, it is my channel and I was planning to do a live stream and he decided he could join me the last minute when I called to let him know I was going to go live. I am using MultEQ-X in ways even Jeff might not have considered, and my point was to share my findings. I've been using this for months, so I am coming at this from a user's perspective. He would approach it from a developer perspective. A lot of feedback about changes are from me! It sounds like you're assuming I don't know much about this app when I've spent the time to learn a lot about it. Ask Jeff. If I put in the hours, I'm entitled to talk. I don't like someone basically telling me to shut up on my own video. There will be many opportunities for you to listen to Jeff in the upcoming Sound United Training videos.
I am sure if you asked Jeff he would prefer to let Joe talk. Jeff is clearly not the marketing guy. Joe has developed a different use case for this product than Audyssey intended it for. That was the main point of this video. Joe is the expert in using it in that manner, not Audyssey and not Jeff. Several times Joe gave Jeff the opportunity to describe how Audyssey intends the product to be used. Joe allowed Audyssey to use his platform to promote a product that quite frankly very few people if any heard about even with their announcement today. Audyssey generally doesn't know how to promote their products because they usually aren't a direct to consumer business, their product is sold via another brand's product. The creative folks at Sound United craft the marketing material to showcase Audyssey on Sound United products. So I am quite sure Jeff and Audyssey appreciate Joe doing the heavy lifting with promoting this product today. Jeff spoke plenty.
@@keepingupwiththejones2933 Correct! Also, to the OP, I haven't spoken about this because I was under an NDA staring December 2020! A whole year! Jeff and have talked for hours on end numerous times. I asked a few people if they understood where you were coming from with your initial comment and they helped me understand. Basically, it's like, "why have the guy who made it on when you're going to do the talking?" The thing is, I was planning on doing the talking to begin with. I didn't have my laptop ready with the app open by coincidence. Him being there was a plus because he could verify whether what I was saying was correct. My job is to talk on camera, it's not really Jeff's even though he does it. I just wanted to make sure he was comfortable as my guest.
I have been using the MutiEQ-X for a week and this video really taught me a lot.
Am I correct: you can only adjust the hole front speaker? So i´ve I set a PEQ for Front it will be applied for left and right? Thats a joke and unusable :-(
I would love to see support for direct FIR coefficient entry. That would enable Audyssey to work in conjunction with Audiolense or Acourate.
Thanks Joe for putting this video up. I was registered for the webinar last night but I fell asleep lol (3am in Sydney). Hopefully this will help Audessey compete better with DIRAC but yet to be seen. I think $200 is a worthwhile investment for the hobby we love.
HOw are you using umik with rew then implementing with this?
O f course we want to be able to custom the response to each left and right channel. 2 by music is most important to many of us
Thanks for the video Joe, interesting software. Is it possible to have farther distances between closest and farthest speaker than 6meters with multeq-x? Or does it have the same limitation as the non-pc audyssey versions?
I'm not sure. I would guess it's the same.
Can the AC1M-X mic improve any form of Audyssey like the MILTIEQ Audyssey app
Why deos the Odyssey miltieq editor app have subwoofer level adjustment and Channel level adjustment for subwoofer thank you
Very interesting. I haven't watched the entire Q&A yet...but I did look at the Software and the Demo AVR thingy...
One thing I noticed is that the curve editor is still a bit finicky... it's nice that it allows you to manually enter Q factor and everything, but it doesn't seem to allow you to drag and drop edit the curve like the app does.
Also, the available range of preset curves seems a bit lacking... no Harman curve...but that "Tilt" might be interesting...
I am still a bit torn since it is very pricey...if it just gives me the ability to edit a bit more freely, then it's hardly worth it, if it actually corrects more precisely though...
Also...what this really lacks (IMHO) is:
a) a measurement of the actual response after the correction has been applied (what we use REW/CARMA for right now) to evaluate the success
b) an option to tweak DynEQ by keeping the bass and treble adjustments but not applying the level adjustment to the Surround/Rear/Rear Height Channels.
Yeah I think of it mainly as a large filter bank. For that use-case alone, I think it's worth it for what I use it for. I can get my system sounding awesome with it.
Does it take room readings before and after or do you still need room eq wizard?
Nearly all room correction just takes a before measurement and predicts the after response. You would need REW to confirm. I have a new app coming out (Magic Beans) that does allow you to do an after measurement from the same app.
Does Audyssey MultEQ X measures better (in the sense, it is using better filters) or is it just giving more control
More control only
@@joentell I thought so. Thx
This is what I’ve been hoping for! This makes it so much better for D&M owners. It makes the decision between a Dirac compatible AVR/Pre and a D&M device easier (or harder haha). It’s helping improve the audio industry as a whole.
And people complaining about it costing $200, you bought your AVR withOUT this feature. So you were ok NOT having it. It costs money to develop it. Your option was they either NOT make it, or they make it and you have the OPTION to buy it. Don’t want it? Don’t buy it. Don’t be a child.
I watched the infomercial on Sound United channel and thought $200 was overpriced. Somehow they failed to mention that it worked on more than the base 7 channels. The Sample AVR in the software is also limited to 7 channels. Working on height and wide channels, I totally agree is well worth the $200. I can sell $1000 in DSP gear now :)
@@georgespiggot8502 I'm pretty sure Joe mentioned it worked on all channels multiple times in this stream, and how you'd need 2x DDRC-88A? to do it before. It's also much nicer having one unit do everything. That's worth $200 to me lol.
@@andrewskaterrr Yep. Much more info in this stream even though it didn't go for as long. Helps when the host doesn't cut the guest off constantly to uptalk their product and get distracted from the point of the stream. I'll be buying the software for sure now I know it works for all channels. $200 is a bargain replacing all other DSP. Will just keep my mini DSP just for subs.
Looking forward to your AV Master Classes
I just bought a mini dsp HD. It hasn’t arrived yet. Should I return it and just use this? Have a Denon 4700
It depends on what you want to do and your experience level
Hopefully this has something to do with why my Marantz AVR updated last night! 🙏
same here :)
Was only for alexa and amazon music the update.
I'm as clueless now as before I watched this video. Why do I want to screw with the curves my AVR measured and generated? I guess this software is not for me.
Yes, I can see how it's confusing. They made this targeted towards professional calibrators and hardcore enthusiasts. The answer to your question is that I might not like the measurement methods or the corrections that Audyssey came up with. I prefer to use my Umik-1, take measurements using various techniques in REW software, and come up with my own correction filters. But I still need a way to input those filters into the AVR and this is how I'm using MultEQ-X.
Alternatively, a hardware device that's capable of accepting all those filters for all of my channels would cost over $1200.
@@joentell Ok, that clears it up a bit. Thank you!
@Joe N Tell Looking at the options in the MultEQ-X application, it looks like the app only allows to design target curve for pairs of speakers, like Front and Surround - only Center channel and Subwoofer are treated as individual channels. When analyzing the speaker responses in REW, it is very clear that the frequency responses are different between L and R, or SL and SR. This means that the app cannot really help with properly equalizing each speaker. While I am able to configure REW to play L+R and perhaps treat it as a single response for equalization, this workaround does not work for surround speakers, where only individual speakers can be analyzed at a time in REW. I have been thinking about buying the MutEQ-X app, but this behavior makes me question the idea. What are your thoughts on this?
Jeff Clark from Audyssey says they're working on individual EQ for each speaker. He said it's very doable and you can actually do it if you know how to read and edit the text file. Even Dirac doesn't EQ the left and right channels individually
@@joentell What text file do you mean? The save file from the app is json, but the measurements data is encoded and cannot be edited without knowing how to decode/encode. It would be really great if they could add the feature to EQ individual speakers and to import the PEQs from REW :) It would be even greater, if REW would support this as one of the EQ targets and generate as many PEQs as Audyssey XT32 supports.
@@kotolows when you save the config file, you can open that in a text editor
The app got an update. Diffrent curves for left and right are now possible.
Will impulse response features cost more in the future? Happy to pay $200 now but don’t want to keep paying as they release features.
I don't know about their future plans
How do we extend the microphone? Most high end AVR's that would get this calibration are installed in an equipment rack that can be over 100 feet away from the room to be tested.
They have 100ft USB extension cables
I find the $200 ok - the Dirac license would be probably much more expensive. But I do not like to buy the license for exactly my receiver. Can I transfer the licence over to another device (maybe only once per week or such)?
For a "professional" guy who is calibrating customers systems, that would be a no go either as they probably not want to license the AVR of every customer... But maybe a "professional" open license is available somewhere.
Yes, I've talked to them about this. It sounds like they're considering alternatives.
@@joentell Does it mean it could be worth to hold on with buying the app until they perhaps allow license transfer or lower the price?
@@kotolows that's your call. For me, MultEQ-X is extremely worth it.
Joe, I just discovered this new vid at your channel and at the beginning you left me puzzled: what is this about, who’s the guy to the left, what is the subject ? A little more structure would have helped.
Just a hint. In general I approve of your relatable approach to clarify difficult subjects.
Yeah, I decided to do it maybe 20 minutes prior, so not very structured. I apologize. Jeff told me he wanted to join not long after.
I definitely was waiting for this one . Joe has been so excited to talk about it.
Are you planning on doing a review for the xgimi aura ust 4k projector anytime soon?
Does this allow per subwoofer channel EQ?
I have a miniDSP that I use with my 4 subs and multi-subEQ.
My receiver (Marantz Cinema 50) has 4 independent subs - can I ditch the miniDSP with this? Or is it limited to applying EQs to all 4 subs combined as a single channel?
I remember Audyssey treats subs as a single channel in the mobile app
Is there support for McIntosh MX123a since it uses Audyssey XT-32 or is it restricted to only Denon and Marantz?
Only products that work with the $20 Editor App
I don't think people are saying they should work for free necessarily, but when Anthems ARC already offers that, and I is included. it doesn't seem necessary for us to pay for it. I'm sure the people at Anthem don't like to work for free either. It's should be part of the feature and benefits of owning a Denon and marantz
At the end of the day, it has to make business sense for the businesses involved. Anthem and Denon and Marantz/Audyssey probably have a different deal. It may suck for us consumers, but what can you do?
Hello Joe, thanks a lot for the video! What do you think about this to get better bass: setting all speakers to LARGE and LFE+MAIN, then use an order 6 highpassfilter for all speakers at 80Hz and use an 80Hz lowpassfilter for the sub. Does that lead to a good frequency seperation of the speakers and the sub? Because I guess that a steep crossover curve is better than a shallow one and that the crossover curve of the built in setting is only order 2 or 4, or is it not? The only downside may be that my celling speakers only go to 100Hz and therefor should be a small gap in signalreproduktion between the 80Hz lowpass of the SW and the inabillity of the celling speakers to go a little lower than 100Hz. Keep up the good work. subscribed ;)
Question. Is this software able to actually measures it's own corrections? In other words, is the "after" curve a measured one, or a calculated one? If it is just calculated, I will still need REW to verify my results.
No, only it only shows a predicted target.
@@joentell they should add at least Impulse response and waterfallchart in this software.
The feature I'd like to see most is something like the Trinnov 3D remapping tech. I think that will make the biggest difference where most of us in the home theater world can't perfectly place speakers to spec. Second would be an spacial object viewer like the Trinnov.
Hey joe what was that hack for denon and auro 3d? Was it to put your surrounds as rears surround for it to work properly? I have my front set to front hight and rear hight to work with atmos and auro.
Yes, I use rear heights. I made an entire video about it
Wasn’t there something about setting rears as surrounds? I set up my atmos/auro to front heights and rear heights, also don’t have surround backs just sides, the question is am I good to go?
@@nomorepictures7673 You are good to go. As long as you see an option for Auro-3D, and if you have your speakers in the proper place.
Hi! Jon....Would you please help me in selecting........ Emotive B1+ vs Wharfdale diamond 12.1 vs Dali Oberon1 Vs POlk R100!!!!! I am little bit inclined towards tight fuller low end bass.Thnx.
I've only tried the R200 so I can't say. Why not try them all and return what you don't like
@@joentell In India such option is very limited!!
So you still can't EQ left & right (mainly front) independently of each other?
What if my setup is highly asymmetrical (larger window on one side, opening in the other...)? :/
I say this to equalize downward (so I do it with manual EQ) to not raise the valleys.
and if some valleys have to be raised, I will be the one to decide what to do.
That option if it is not possible at this time, it seems to me that it is
I see a lot of Audyssey screenshots that equalize at 75 dB,
many times it raises too many valleys and with a lot of dB.
Dirac and ARC Genesis give the option to set the target below 75 dB.
(Reference level).
Mr Joe N Tell, since you equalize manually, can you confirm that we can equalize downwards below 0 dB?
When I say down I am not talking about setting the target at -10 dB, but at -3 or -5 dB for example.
All this depends on each room.
Written with translator
Greetings
I try to cut rather than boost most of the time, but I think it's easy to take that to the extreme. Some people apply huge cuts which causes you to lose headroom and when you turn it up, it's equivalent to boosting anyway. Ideally, you want to EQ in to a reference point where it's mostly cuts, but a tiny bit of boost here and there in the proper locations won't hurt it. You just have to know where.
@@joentell
That is clear, but my question comes from what you say in the video that you have spent several hours testing Audyssey MultEQ-X.
I put a screenshot taken from the internet to better understand my query.
Seeing this screenshot, my equalization (response curve the same for example as the Audyssey forecast) would be between -3 or -5 dB
and not at 0 dB.
Just look for the moment at the valley between 60-70 Hz pre Audyssey, raise this valley then almost + 9 dB, it will be noticeable to the ear even if it is a narrow valley.
As of today, we can set the MultEQ-X target in dB below 0 dB (default reference).
Do you understand my question ?
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/audyssey-room-eq-before-and-after-app-results-png.59656/
@@JuanJose-wt5yj that 70hz dip is very common in rooms. I think it's caused by the ceiling height and the corresponding 70hz wavelength. I see that all the time.
I don't do any measurements in Audyssey. I do it all in REW where I can set the target level. I just input all my PEQ into MULTEQ-X.
@@joentell What I mean is that Audyssey should in future updates (if it can't now) give the option to lower the target from 0 dB (75 dB which is the Reference level that it equalizes) to what we are interested in, just as it can be done with Dirac Live and ARC Genesis.
I have been EQing manually for years with Equalizer APO using the REW RTA ( I don't use REW in automatic ) and always at the end I leave the ear tests of the most complicated part from my Schroeder frequency up to 300-400Hz, EQing filter by filter with its subsequent ear test.
I was just curious about the possibility of lowering the target in dB below 0 (default 75 dB reference level).
Can you do this test with MultEQ-X as of today?
Is there any difference in functions (sub equalising etc.) and results in this app between receivers with built in multeq and multeq xt32?
I think auto calibration is the same
@@joentell I'm asking because there is different functions in multeq and multeq xt32, such us filters resolution and sub equalasing. Question: is multeq x app brings features of high-end devices to chipper ones?
@@sashaem5508 unfortunately not. I think the software reads your amp and knows it's capabilities. It doesn't add functionality that the hardware isn't capable of.
I have an Arcam but am very tempted to upgrade once this is all sorted because D&M have awesome stable expansive features.
Same here. Got an Arcam AVR850 but want a receiver with hdmi 2.1 and auro3d. Only reason i decided arcam at the time was sound quality and dirac, but seeing the measurements of the denon 8500 on asr in combination with this announcement really gives me the upgraditis
So, this is not available for the Mac OS?
No, not yet. Unless you have an Intel Mac and you use Bootcamp or a virtual machine.
@@joentell
Okay thanks…. That’s disappointing.
This is great news! Can I use a Earthworks M30 microphone with Audyssey Multi EQ X? Will it be available for Mac OS? Thanks!
Please watch the video if you can. All of that is answered
I'm assuming there is no way to get this to work on the 2015 networked AVRs (SR7010/X4200) that the Pro kit works with now?
I'd your AVR works with the Editor App, it will work with this
I’m tempted to switch from Denon to Pioneer for Dirac live but now should I be rethinking this with this $200 upgrade? Does this bring it up to Dirac’s level of room correction? Also does this save me from buying a minidsp for multiple subs?
If you know how to manually calibrate, I think it can be better than Dirac. Dirac is just so easy and it does a very good job.
@@joentell thanks Joe, I’m gonna start to tinker with manually calibrating , need to get a umik-1 first. But if it’s better then Dirac I’ll just stay put with Denon. Yes simplicity is a real bonus for sure, that’s what people are after now a days
@@Kenny_Edmonton I'm working on creating courses showing how I do manual calibration. avmasterclass.com
@@joentell oh that’s awesome, I signed up
Quick question? Do you think the auto calibration yields better results than the multi eq 32xt auto calibration? Meaning greater depth of sound? I seen somewhere the MultEQ X has higher res filters. What do you think?
I don't think it would make a difference for auto EQ. I would recommend this to someone who wants to do a manual tune.
@@joentell so you’re doing this is basically going back bumping and cutting frequencies to get the yellow after line as close to the 0dB as possible? Seems like that’s basically what you’d be doing to perfect the sound and changing the (Q) width to best align the yellow graph. I’ve always felt like it’s more to be had with my Marantz 8805 sound wise.
@@JoseGonzalez-zq7bn not exactly, but you're on the right track. I think people will have their own approaches.
@@joentell man that would take a lot of work for sure! I mean I think that’s what the goal would be is to best align to yellow line (after) and smooth it best as possible. I’m glad audyssey came out with this. I think I’m willing to give it a try, I was definitely considering going to Anthem when the avm90 comes out. I still might but I think this may have solved the somewhat lack of dynamics that was still being desired. This should allow me to get what I’m after. Only thing now is sending it in to get the 8k board and I’ll be a happy camper.
Hmmm how much would you charge to do the tuning? If you was to? I’m sure lots of people would pay to have you fine tune their systems. I probably would 😏
How do you measure multiple rows (2) of seats?
I did all my measurements and PEQ correction in REW and manually input them into MULTEQ-X
Wish Yamaha would bring something like this to older Avantage receivers.
For 200 bucks why are you touching rew at all? You shouldnt have to import rew files.
Yeah, that would be cool if I could do all the things I do in REW.
REW is calculating the PEQ filters based on a target curve. The fact that it's free is awesome.
I would be happy if I could just import filters the way I use a MiniDSP.
And that's why i don't understand the 200 dollar price point. Anyone who would buy multeq-x obviously would already have REW that can do leaps and bounds more than "x". They should have brought more features to the table at launch instead of saying "we could do that in the future".
@@williamkramer9069 That's true, REW does a lot more. But if you want to manually correct using PEQ, where will you put those correction settings?
With a more robust editor app (on the pc with a mouse) you could shape your target curve to hopefully get closer to what you are trying to achieve through an extra PEQ .Why do you need this if audyssey is delivering the expected results? You already have to use REW to check the results of audyssey anyway, just reshape the target. I don't think they added enough value over the 20 dollar app. Being on PC is worth about 20 bucks. Getting to customize both flat And reference is worth about another 20. You should have all of your positional EQ stuff figured out with REW before running audyssey. You can use rew to see that some seats shouldn't be included in the audyssey process because they are too detrimental the average.
@@williamkramer9069 I don't think this is for everyone. If you don't see a particular use-case for it, it might not be worth it.
I just got an amp wirh Dirac. I see this as the right step forward but still behind. I think it's very interesting and good video.
This new app may be an answer to some issues. But , it's also bringing a really big light to all the inadequate issues with denon/marantz avrs. It even makes one question the microphone that comes with their avrs. I honestly don't think their was sufficient thought and planning before they brought this to market 🤔. I just recently purchased a denon x8500h, the flagship avr for denon and now I find out that the microphone that comes with isn't calibrated and if i want more control I need to purchase an additional $200 dollar app that is only good for my one specific avr. I'm seriously regretting my purchase now. Seriously thinking of returning my denon and buying the Anthem mrk 1140 that is ironically $500 dollars cheaper and doesn't charge for additional similar control. 🤔 I suspect I won't be the only one regretting our denon/marantz purchases.
Anyone know if it's possible, or will be possible in the future, to limit the target curve eq to a certain max frequency but also apply parametric eq above that limit? For example, I'd love to be able to eq to a target curve under say 500hz but also slap on a little -2db dip around 4khz without affecting the rest of the treble.
You could just put in the PEQ filters that will give you the target you're looking for but only up to 500hz or whatever your max frequency is. Then you just put in that dip at the higher frequency.
I believe this functionality has recently been added.
55 minutes and I'm still a bit confused on the value prop. This seems like $200 for a manual EQ editor? Other processors have this built in for free. And why would you spend hours manually crafting EQ filters when you can have Audyssey do it automatically and just edit the target curve to your needs for $20 with the app?
I can get much better results for various reasons when I do it manually. Auto-EQ is made mostly for simplicity. I don't know of any processors that allow you to put 10+ PEQ filters for each channel. I think about this thing as a giant filter bank. Kind of like a built-in MiniDSP. It's definitely not for most people, just some crazy folks like me.
Excellent video explanation joe. As someone stated below, a 3D spatial view of the speakers would be good like Anthem and Trinnov
Yeah no Mac support a no go. Good you brought up the M1 issue
Gotta watch this about 3 more times!!!
Amazing insight into this new way of fixing your setup. Maybe you can make my monitor Audio Radius sound like B&W?????
I don't know about that. It depends on the directivity of the speakers. DSP has its limitations. Physics still apply.
When running Audyssey Deos that change the signature warp sound of Marantz
Sooo $200 per receiver? It's not a one time license for a pro installer's software?
Now that Im looking at this... .... This looks a lot like another brand software. .... Joe, .. maybe you can compare the software end of this ..because I know the brand won't answer you for a unit.... Anthem ARC software even looks the same as this. .... I'm curious if there was someone at Audyssey that compared and borrowed some of the UI / features ...
Yeah, I have no idea.
The tool is overall ok. But what is definitely missing is ability to edit the target curve like it can be done in mobile app. Entering all these single points manually with Q, gain and frequency - this is not something which I like. All these points can overlap, so it very difficult to achieve the curve shape which I want to see. The tool should allow to draw the curve, allow to put points on it and move it, like in mobile app - then it should calculate automatically required filters and equalization to achieve the result requested by user. Also it is not possible to change sort order of tabs and it is not possible to rename them, which makes edition a nightmare, especially if you have many tabs entered.
Nine minutes in and its still not clear what it is.
To me, it's enables you to do manual EQ of your system which most people won't do. It's for those people who do.
Pc only nothing for the Mac
You can use it with Bootcamp if you have an Intel Mac. They're still working on M1 compatibility.
Just offering REW equalizer import would have been sufficient 🤗
Joe,
In a nutshell, please describe what X brings to the table if you are not a REW informed user?
Thanks, XEagleDriver
Not much. I would say this is for advanced users that want to get the most out of their systems and are willing to spend the time to do it.
Hi will this work on my Marantz av 8805 not the a version many thnks
My only recommendation is for Jeff to create tutorials on how to use MultiEQ-X and recommended processes and key features as a more valuable use of his time. Instead we spent more time on how it's not intended to be used by a novice user. WTF.
Time to get nerdy.
Awesome, news! 😃🍻
I was so happy about the news...but then i realized thats just 1 license for 1 avr...sry 200 bucks would be ok for a complete license but just 1avr is a joke...
Full price for expensive device Paid that only works to 80% (Hdmi2.1) and now 200 euros for software! Who should afford it? Not everyone is a top earner!
I don't think so because is a paying thing mixed feelings about it, supposedly you get a high quality Mik and audessey out of the box,it could have been for free after the mess up d&m did on the hdm 4k 120hz and 8k they say they fixed it it's more like a work around another cord and an ugly box not a fix and even with adaptor it doesn't work with some lg tvs
Joe, We know it’s your channel, but I’m sure you’re annoying the begeezus out of folk! What’s the point of having an expert on the product and not letting him talk? Would you please let Jeff explain what his product is and does? This is the first one of your uploads that I can’t watch.
Yes, it is my channel and I was planning to do a live stream and he decided he could join me the last minute when I called to let him know I was going to go live. I am using MultEQ-X in ways even Jeff might not have considered, and my point was to share my findings. I've been using this for months, so I am coming at this from a user's perspective. He would approach it from a developer perspective. A lot of feedback about changes are from me! It sounds like you're assuming I don't know much about this app when I've spent the time to learn a lot about it. Ask Jeff. If I put in the hours, I'm entitled to talk.
I don't like someone basically telling me to shut up on my own video. There will be many opportunities for you to listen to Jeff in the upcoming Sound United Training videos.
I am sure if you asked Jeff he would prefer to let Joe talk. Jeff is clearly not the marketing guy. Joe has developed a different use case for this product than Audyssey intended it for. That was the main point of this video. Joe is the expert in using it in that manner, not Audyssey and not Jeff. Several times Joe gave Jeff the opportunity to describe how Audyssey intends the product to be used. Joe allowed Audyssey to use his platform to promote a product that quite frankly very few people if any heard about even with their announcement today. Audyssey generally doesn't know how to promote their products because they usually aren't a direct to consumer business, their product is sold via another brand's product. The creative folks at Sound United craft the marketing material to showcase Audyssey on Sound United products. So I am quite sure Jeff and Audyssey appreciate Joe doing the heavy lifting with promoting this product today. Jeff spoke plenty.
@@keepingupwiththejones2933 Correct!
Also, to the OP, I haven't spoken about this because I was under an NDA staring December 2020! A whole year! Jeff and have talked for hours on end numerous times.
I asked a few people if they understood where you were coming from with your initial comment and they helped me understand. Basically, it's like, "why have the guy who made it on when you're going to do the talking?"
The thing is, I was planning on doing the talking to begin with. I didn't have my laptop ready with the app open by coincidence. Him being there was a plus because he could verify whether what I was saying was correct. My job is to talk on camera, it's not really Jeff's even though he does it. I just wanted to make sure he was comfortable as my guest.
too much expensive