I use D-STAR and YSF. My understanding is that D-STAR uses 6.25KHz for audio and data transmissions. C4FM has Digital Narrow and Voice Wide. The following applies to simplex, not on reflectors. On the DN mode, 6.25KHz is used for voice and the other 6.25KHz is used for GPS and data transmissions. With VW mode, it's 12.5KHz of audio, no data transmissions. Where C4FM shines is the DG-ID feature, think of it as CTCSS Tones. One can set the DG-ID on TX and RX. There's 100 DG-ID codes, 0-99. If you want to keep your conversation private as much as possible, change the DG-ID and have the codes. Any ither radio with C4FM capability will not "hear" the conversation without the same DG-ID codes. All they will see is callsigns come up on the frequency and no audio. D-STAR does not have this capability. Anyone with a D-STAR capable radio can demodulate a D-STAR signal, if they're within range. If you rally want to keep a conversation private, the Kenwood D-74A and D-75A can do D-STAR on 220MHz. No other radios can do D-STAR on 220MHz, except Kenwood's new mobile radio, whenever that comes out.
A wise one looks at the Repeater Book for their area. Some areas tend heavily DMR and others Fusion. Choose your radio for your area. Digirigs and convert from one format to another, provided that you have WiFi. All digital formats assume WiFi suppt, analog is the reliable fallback in my humble opinion. 73, Bill.
I use DMR and Fusion. Hands down, Fusion is the simplest of them all. Turn it on and pick a frequency and it simply works. As a plus, there is a bit more "security through obscurity" because there are no off the shelf scanners that I'm aware of that can decode the C4FM modulation.
May not be off the shelf scanners that do it, but DSDPlus will decode C4FM. I've never tried it as there is no Fusion in my area, but have decoded DMR and P25 P1.
@MarkDecamps I wasn't arguing but just wanted to point out that digital modes without encryption do not provide security. You are correct that fusion will stop Joe Blow with a digital trunking scanner from listening but it's not in any way secure from others listening. I have two CCR DMR handhelds with low level (40 bit I think) encryption. I'd consider that enough to keep most people from listening and the CCR does add some security through obscurity as it's likely proprietary as it is incompatible with the encryption on say Hyterra or Moto, but I don't consider them 100% secure. Someone with a bigger brain than me could likely crack it easily.
Being a owner of both d-star and dmr I always go back to d -star. It’s by far easier to program and use than dmr and you can use d-star hf simplex I made contacts all over the US using d-star hf can’t do that with dmr. Also in socal dmr simplex is absolutely dead unfortunately where’s as there’s always contacts with dstar simplex to be made
I started with D-STAR in 2010, with an ICOM ID-880 Mobile, Then Fusion around when DMR became popular. I had a Hytera UHF only commercial HT, where I got my MARC Registered ID for DMR. I first had a CSI 800 Mobile, and Anytone, Ailunce,, Retevis and TYT handhelds. I now have a Retevis DMR/ Analog UHF repeater to use locally, portable and mobile. 73 de W2CH Ray and Marylyn, KC2NKU. 😊
The problem with digital radio, is that it has further fractured the amateur radio world. I equate this to the old VHS/Beta wars back in the day. They need to have a single open standard for digital voice communications. The other problem with digital comms, is the signal is all or nothing. A poor signal will be garbled. With analogue one has a chance to pull out a signal with static in it.
I only have analog radios and HF radios i never used dstar, fusion or dmr. I hear digital stuff over amateur radio requires more equipment and cost to maintain it. I rather just obtain the general and extra and just keep using analog and HF and pay no mind to digital transceivers that requires repeater usage. Ill be ignorant and give my middle finger to dmr, dstar etc ill use HF and a straight key😂.
hahahah...to run a digital repeater would require more equipment, but if you were looking to just explore and get on the air, just a digital capable HT and to be in range of a digital repeater is really all you need. Depending on your applications, the clarity gained can be really nice if even for just simplex communications.
What a great video, only a couple of weeks ago I watched a TH-cam video by Jason Ham Radio 2.0 where I dared question why we have so many different digital modes & dared to ask why we don't have a standard & I was shot down for daring to ask & suggest😢 ( see below ) th-cam.com/video/7kNtYWP75qI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=r9ukZBWQe-mA_TWj As it stands if a Ham wants a "DMR" they basically have to buy a Chinese radio then if they also want to talk to someone on C4FM they have to buy another radio & so on it goes Im sure you get the picture. In my opinion Icom & Yeasu need to offer people a choice in the case of Icom DSTAR/DMR & in the case of Yeasu C4FM/DMR. Where I live in Melbourne Australia we have Dstar, DMR, APCO & C4FM Repeaters. Now yes I know for an extra expense you can get a "Hotspot" to do the heavy lifting but it needs WiFi & is one more peice of kit you have to carry & use. RGS Wayne VK3ECS
I understand why there are people that want standardized digital voice modes. I have an Icom and a Yaesu that can’t communicate with each other on digital voice. It splits up an already small population of operators into even smaller groups. The drawback is that standardization doesn’t breed innovation. If we settle on one protocol we miss the opportunity to develop something better. We have lots of data modes in ham radio that aren’t standardized either. I don’t really know what the answer is other than to watch it play out. I think as tech advances you’ll see more ways of interconnecting the different protocols.
I use DMR and have often wondered what the differences were. You described it all and gave me clarity that was the best I’ve found. Thxs.
Jim
KJ7CPI.
@@Mustang68 thank you! And thanks for the comment!
Great topic. I have DMR for now and have had ok sucess. Thanks for the video.
Yessir, thanks for the comment!
I use D-STAR and YSF. My understanding is that D-STAR uses 6.25KHz for audio and data transmissions. C4FM has Digital Narrow and Voice Wide. The following applies to simplex, not on reflectors.
On the DN mode, 6.25KHz is used for voice and the other 6.25KHz is used for GPS and data transmissions. With VW mode, it's 12.5KHz of audio, no data transmissions. Where C4FM shines is the DG-ID feature, think of it as CTCSS Tones.
One can set the DG-ID on TX and RX. There's 100 DG-ID codes, 0-99. If you want to keep your conversation private as much as possible, change the DG-ID and have the codes. Any ither radio with C4FM capability will not "hear" the conversation without the same DG-ID codes. All they will see is callsigns come up on the frequency and no audio.
D-STAR does not have this capability. Anyone with a D-STAR capable radio can demodulate a D-STAR signal, if they're within range.
If you rally want to keep a conversation private, the Kenwood D-74A and D-75A can do D-STAR on 220MHz. No other radios can do D-STAR on 220MHz, except Kenwood's new mobile radio, whenever that comes out.
Thanks for sharing all of those details, really helpful!
A wise one looks at the Repeater Book for their area. Some areas tend heavily DMR and others Fusion. Choose your radio for your area. Digirigs and convert from one format to another, provided that you have WiFi. All digital formats assume WiFi suppt, analog is the reliable fallback in my humble opinion. 73, Bill.
@@KF0NNQ that is very wise indeed! Absolutely 💯
I use DMR and Fusion. Hands down, Fusion is the simplest of them all. Turn it on and pick a frequency and it simply works. As a plus, there is a bit more "security through obscurity" because there are no off the shelf scanners that I'm aware of that can decode the C4FM modulation.
@@MarkDecamps well that could be HUGE win if that is the case, very cool!
Really wish I had more Fusion repeaters in my area… like any…
May not be off the shelf scanners that do it, but DSDPlus will decode C4FM. I've never tried it as there is no Fusion in my area, but have decoded DMR and P25 P1.
@juliogonzo2718 that's why I said "off the shelf scanners." I didn't say there was nothing that would decode it.
@MarkDecamps I wasn't arguing but just wanted to point out that digital modes without encryption do not provide security. You are correct that fusion will stop Joe Blow with a digital trunking scanner from listening but it's not in any way secure from others listening. I have two CCR DMR handhelds with low level (40 bit I think) encryption. I'd consider that enough to keep most people from listening and the CCR does add some security through obscurity as it's likely proprietary as it is incompatible with the encryption on say Hyterra or Moto, but I don't consider them 100% secure. Someone with a bigger brain than me could likely crack it easily.
I am looking forward to your digital range testing.
lots of stuff planned for the future! Thanks for the comment
Being a owner of both d-star and dmr I always go back to d -star. It’s by far easier to program and use than dmr and you can use d-star hf simplex I made contacts all over the US using d-star hf can’t do that with dmr. Also in socal dmr simplex is absolutely dead unfortunately where’s as there’s always contacts with dstar simplex to be made
Like I said in the video, I have no expedience with d-star, but the fact there is hf d-star….. that sounds worth exploring
@ yeah dstar hf simplex is a lot of fun they have nets on sat at 4pm pst ref030c and sundays at 7am. We use all the bands
I started with D-STAR in 2010,
with an ICOM ID-880 Mobile,
Then Fusion around when DMR became popular.
I had a Hytera UHF only commercial HT, where I got
my MARC Registered ID for
DMR. I first had a CSI 800
Mobile, and Anytone, Ailunce,,
Retevis and TYT handhelds.
I now have a Retevis DMR/
Analog UHF repeater to use
locally, portable and mobile.
73 de W2CH Ray and Marylyn,
KC2NKU. 😊
The problem with digital radio, is that it has further fractured the amateur radio world. I equate this to the old VHS/Beta wars back in the day. They need to have a single open standard for digital voice communications. The other problem with digital comms, is the signal is all or nothing. A poor signal will be garbled. With analogue one has a chance to pull out a signal with static in it.
@@bwillan video that you will love, coming out soon! Stay tuned and thanks for the comment
Just got a couple DMR radios. Gonna try then out this weekend (I hope).
What did you get?
@@RANTStrategies TYT MD-UV390 Plus. They for the money they seem like a good buy, plus they do 256 encryption. Just do not tell anyone.
2:30
I only have analog radios and HF radios i never used dstar, fusion or dmr. I hear digital stuff over amateur radio requires more equipment and cost to maintain it. I rather just obtain the general and extra and just keep using analog and HF and pay no mind to digital transceivers that requires repeater usage. Ill be ignorant and give my middle finger to dmr, dstar etc ill use HF and a straight key😂.
hahahah...to run a digital repeater would require more equipment, but if you were looking to just explore and get on the air, just a digital capable HT and to be in range of a digital repeater is really all you need. Depending on your applications, the clarity gained can be really nice if even for just simplex communications.
First.
Thanks brother!
Second here. Check Quansheng with NUNU update. Encrypted SMS and other goodies 🔥🔥🔥
What a great video, only a couple of weeks ago I watched a TH-cam video by Jason Ham Radio 2.0 where I dared question why we have so many different digital modes & dared to ask why we don't have a standard & I was shot down for daring to ask & suggest😢 ( see below )
th-cam.com/video/7kNtYWP75qI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=r9ukZBWQe-mA_TWj
As it stands if a Ham wants a "DMR" they basically have to buy a Chinese radio then if they also want to talk to someone on C4FM they have to buy another radio & so on it goes Im sure you get the picture.
In my opinion Icom & Yeasu need to offer people a choice in the case of Icom DSTAR/DMR & in the case of Yeasu C4FM/DMR.
Where I live in Melbourne Australia we have Dstar, DMR, APCO & C4FM Repeaters.
Now yes I know for an extra expense you can get a "Hotspot" to do the heavy lifting but it needs WiFi & is one more peice of kit you have to carry & use.
RGS
Wayne
VK3ECS
appreciate the comment and ohhhhh man.... watching this now, can't wait!
We do, it's called M17. But Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu can't make any money if they all used M17. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M17_(amateur_radio)
In Europe you can add TETRA 😂😂😂😂
I understand why there are people that want standardized digital voice modes. I have an Icom and a Yaesu that can’t communicate with each other on digital voice. It splits up an already small population of operators into even smaller groups. The drawback is that standardization doesn’t breed innovation. If we settle on one protocol we miss the opportunity to develop something better. We have lots of data modes in ham radio that aren’t standardized either. I don’t really know what the answer is other than to watch it play out. I think as tech advances you’ll see more ways of interconnecting the different protocols.