Consumer Reports is falling way behind, but they have a harder job, they have to buy a random product instead of getting sent cars from the manufacturer. Their appliance reviews are several years out of data now sadly
Personally, while I will read CR reviews now and then, they do self-promote more than I like. Then too, their surveys come only from members willing and wanting to do them, not necessarily the best cross section of users all the time. But I will blend their findings in with others I read, not treat them as a bible.
Already bought plug in pecifica 1.5 years ago ...on vacation few times in a year but going job daily save lots of money thanks to 30 miles pure electric. Thanks n congrats for putting hardwork on minivans series 👍...
7 months ago we bought a 2020 PacHy about 2 weeks before my brother bought a 2021 Odyssey. I’ve been convinced we made the smarter choice ever since, and more recently he’s realized the same. We LOVE the Pacifica. We only need to fill the tank every ~1,300 miles or so during our usual around-town duty. Fed/state/local tax incentives and rebates took $10k off the price, and Chrysler’s end of year incentives and dealer discounts took off ANOTHER $10k, bringing our transaction price down to the low $30s. Brother paid $10k more for a mid-level Odyssey EX-L that doesn’t have half the features of our top trim Pacifica. We spend half as much on gas and sacrifice only the tiniest bit of performance. Pacifica is more pleasing to the eye to me, both inside and outside - never did warm to the current gen Odyssey styling. Thank you for the thorough analysis and comparison!
Sounds like Honda’s depreciation advantage was covered by your discounts… And, add to that, your brother is not necessarily getting that Honda reliability/quality advantage either, because the Odyssey has been one of their sketchier models… So it seems you’re winning this round of sibling rivalry!
I keep cars a long time. Not suggesting depreciation isn't a concern, but after 10 years and 150,000 miles the difference is minimal, and TCO is unquestionably better with the Chrysler after discounts, tax credits, and gas savings in my personal operating conditions.
@@brandononbrand The 2021+ Odyssey is more reliable than its older counterparts with a better transmission and not being the first year of a generation
We shopped between the Pacifica hybrid and new Sienna in February at the time. After the tax credit and Chrysler incentives, the PacHy Pinnacle was waaay cheaper than even a mid optioned XLE Sienna. The EV range and more comfortable 3rd row in the Pacifica also made it an easy decision, we love it.
Picked up our Pacifica S PHEV(smoke grey w/black trim. The grandkids think we're hip.😂) in May. With $7500 back from the Feds, $4500 back from FCA, and another $3K off at the dealer: We quickly forgot about that Kia we we're cross-shopping. The Kia was nice, but didn't ride nor handle as well as the Pacifica. The interior was a bit nicer, but UConnect 5 is a deal-maker. We love it!
@@borrachitovsop Perhaps, though a 10 year vehicle service contract is only around $2500, which is still way less than I saved on the purchase compared to a loaded Sienna (a platinum Sienna would have been at least $15k more than I spent)
I bought the Pacifica PHEV. I really loved the plug in part, hardly ever saw a gas pump. The PHEV is outstanding when going down mountain passes. Stranded out of town twice due to a flat and no spare tire. One required a total tire replacement. Bought a full size tire and jack but that meant I lost a lot of cargo area and the 3rd row stow and go. The Hybrid cooling system went out at about 4000 miles and it was in the shop for 30 days. Had a wind vibration in front quarter panel at highway speeds that the dealer could never figure out. After the Hybrid system went out I started doing some research and there was a lot of concern about long term reliability. I finally sold it to CarMax at 7000 miles. I probably would have kept it if not for the vibration issue and the fact of having no where to put the spare tire. The long term reliability issue was also concerning because I planned on keeping 10 to 15 years. Currently waiting to the updates on the 2023 vans before purchasing a new one.
We have a 2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited and it has been great. We qualified for Federal and State tax credits which totalled over 10k. The worst part of owning it has been dealing with the Chrysler dealer network.
I drive past TWO dealers just to go to a high-volume dealer 3 towns over because of the poor dealer experiences. Other than that, our Pacifica has been outstanding. We make the trek from New Hampshire to Naples, FL twice per year and the Pacifica makes it the best road trip.
Had a new Highlander, nightmare, worst purchase ever, Corporate policy no different than the others. You're likely to get a trouble-free one but if you don't, all dealers are the same.
My brother drives 45 minutes to have his Tundra serviced at a Toyota dealership.There’s another Toyota dealership 5 minutes from his house,but horrible customer service.All dealership experiences seem to vary widely.
Pacifica Hybrid Limited with safety package and S Appearance is the sweetest spot for minivan luxury and hands down the best option across all competitors. Thanks Alex for the great analysis as always.
We have two kids and love our 2018 Pacifica, Limited trim with all the bells and whistles. Mini vans are so practical with infants and toddlers. Now that our kids are a little older (7 and 4) and are starting to snowboard, we are planning to upgrading to the awd version later this year. Wish that they had an awd version back in 2018.
Blind spot monitors and rear parking camera/sensors are my highest safety tech needs. With kids around, the parking sensors can save you with a beep if someone runs behind the van. Blind spot monitors are super helpful when merging and changing lanes in traffic around town especially when you've got kids in the back making noise and distracting you. I like adaptive cruise control but I consider that more of a convenience rather than a safety feature.
Having screens built in to the radio systems is nearly a standard for me. The ability to turn off/on or stop the movie from the front is key. Some of my little ones can't do that yet and need assistance. Plus, i like having the control as I can regulate more of what my kids watch, as opposed to them having access on a tablet. Having to set everything up with a tablet/portable player is much more cumbersome than just having it built right in.
I think it’s funny that Kia wants to separate itself by being the “un-minivan”, but yet didn’t try and design their new van to hide the one thing that makes it look the most like a minivan…..the sliding door track! The others hide theirs, and Chrysler and Toyota have been doing it for years. Seems like a missed opportunity.
i think they did it because the track is external under a simple removable panel which is way easier to service, repair or replace the track and cables if it gets damaged especially the powered versions
I'd like to see one in person, but trying to split the difference in exterior design between SUV and minivan, seems to have yielded awkward results for the Kia. The "unapologetic" minivans all look better to my eye.
@@ragweedmakesmesneeze I actually saw one in the wild a few days ago, and it looks alright. I'm not sure why Kia is trying to fool, though. It's a minivan, and it looksl like a minivan.
Thanks for the incredibly detailed and accuse comparing videos of these minivans. I think I'm going to choose 2022 Sienna. Love its fuel economy, reliability and efficiency and most importantly I feel AWD is quite necessary for a minivan and Sienna is the only one has AWD and hybrid at the same time.
After leasing 2018 Pacifica for 42 month, we decided to buy it out, due to lack of inventory on 2021 Pacifica. It has 80k miles, it turns out to be reliable, convenient (stove and go seats) and the most attractive vehicle on the market today...
I like how much well organized material Alex packs into each episode. He speaks both rapidly and clearly. I haven't sat in any of the vans discussed. I probably would go for Pacifica if I like its look and feel and am not repelled by the dealership. Perhaps the well equipped base model if a dealership even carries it.
Great video - all good options in this really competitive segment. I own an Odyssey, and I'm surprised by Alex's lukewarm opinion of the Magic Slide seats - it's one of my favorite features in the vehicle. With the eighth seat out, the easiest way *by far* for kids to enter the third row is by sliding one of the outboard captain's chairs to the center of the vehicle, opening a very large opening to the back. (This also means that the inability to tilt the captain's chairs with a carseat in place - another Alex bugaboo - isn't a big deal, at least when the eighth seat is out.) I really wish the Sienna's captain's chairs (1) moved across the van like the Honda's (especially given that the eighth seat isn't even an option in the top trims), and (2) more importantly, came out.
Agreed. I too own an Odyssey and those seats are great for my 3 kids. We are constantly changing the configuration for different reasons, like toddler kicking door, easy cooler access on road trips, 3rd row access for 3rd kid, etc. Bit I am otherwise unsatisfied with the Odyssey and am considering swapping for Sienna or Pacifica hybrid.
stephen, completely agree. Sienna second row is a dud. Want 8 leather seats? can't have it. Want 8 even synthetic leather seats with AWD? can't have it. Want seats designed for removal? can't have it.
Agreed. I understand the hump is there when you take the seats out, but how often does anyone take all the 2nd row seats out? Why would the few times you stow or remove the seats be so "game changing" at the sacrifice of comfort? You sit in those seats more than you'd stow or remove them. I've owned minivans since 2008 and not once have I ever removed the 2nd row captain chairs.
Alex needs to do an in depth video of the safety features. One of the reasons I bought an Odyssey over the Pacifica is because the safety features performed better and were more intuitive to use. Blind spot indicator is in a better sight location on the door vs. in the side view mirror. Lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control indicators are in the center dash with great visual icons on the Odyssey. Pacifica icons and indicators are 90’s tech at best with simple on/off light indicators. Odyssey lane keep assist is smooth with light steering adjustments. The Pacifica lane keep assist bounces in the lane like a ping pong ball. Both vans lane keep assist will deactivate from lack of steering input; the Odyssey provides a clear warning and visual in the main instrument cluster while the Pacifica just stops working and illuminates a 90’s button in the console area near AC controls. The Odyssey lane departure safety is better and more intuitive as well. Didn’t test the crash avoidance braking, but based on other safety feature performance it’s likely the Odyssey is better than the Pacifica here too. Oh, and the magic slide seats are a game changer when car seats are needed. No other van can touch the seat configuration flexibility of magic slide. Try climbing to the 3rd row in other vans with car seats in the 2nd row. In the Odyssey you can put 3 car seats in the 2nd row or remove the smaller center seat, put 2 car seats in the 2nd row and move these seats front/back and left/right. Accessing the 3rd row with the 2nd row captain's chair moved to the center is fantastic! Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised that Alex didn't call out that 2nd row seats in the regular Pacifica (maybe the hybrid too?) are fixed and can not slide front to back. Added benefit of magic slide on the Odyssey is without the center seat a child can be positioned in the middle and moved closer to the front seats for adult help (infants, toddlers). You can also move a car sick kid to the 2nd row center position, which helps alleviate motion sickness. From a driving experience the Pacifica rides just like our Town and Country….lazy and mushy. The Odyssey drives like a big Accord, much more nimble with good feedback. Also, ever wonder why the US auto companies (and now Kia Sedona=Carnival) keep changing vehicle names? The Pacifica is just the next gen Town & Country. But with a rename FCA/Stellantis magically erases decades of subpar reliability data and starts fresh. Honda and Toyota keep the Odyssey and Sienna names in play even if a few model years were subpar (Odyssey early 2000’s trannys). I'll also call out a concern that Stellantis kills off the Chrysler brand as only the Pacifica and extremely dated 300 remain. Try chasing down hybrid/EV components on the only Pacifica hybrid 3 years from now when they shutter the brand....Ouch!!! I'll push back on the whole get a couple of iPad's suggestion vs. the rear entertainment. Yes, the minivan RES is expensive relative to an iPad. However, if you attempt to run 2-3 iPad's from either your phone or the van's WiFi hotspot then good luck using them for more than a week. AT&T, Verizon, etc. start to throttle connections after ~20GB of data is used. Running 2-3 iPad's will burn 20GB of data relatively quickly and lead to frustration when things don't work. And that doesn't even factor in network coverage/reliability/speed and that can lead to iPad's not working on a family road trip. Downloading content to the iPad's before a trip is a time sink and is limited by Netflix and others as streaming accounts only allow 1+ devices for downloading content. It is really hard to beat a simple DVD with the ability of the driver/passenger to control playback and change out DVD's on long road trips. If you must have Netflix, Disney, etc. then it is better overall to plug a Chromecast, FireTV, AppleTV into the van's HDMI port, connect to the car/phone WiFi, and display content on one screen thereby reducing tech support and the data needed to stream content in the car. Chromecast is especially good as the passenger can control playback from their phone on long road trips (vs. young kids struggling with content playback). Hope this helps others in the minivan market! The small nuances in each offering can prove to be the biggest headache in owning these vans. Take your time to compare each model and make sure it works for you. We found out the hard way that the Town and Country is horrible at supporting 3 car seats....thus our move to the Odyssey to make car seat usage much easier.
Honda all the way, got my first Odyssey in 2018 and getting another one this month. Drives like a car not a bus, simple v6 and with the 10 speed it’s much better than my current 9 speed. My only big gripe about the Honda is that they are milking it in not upgrading their V6 to timing chain. It’s 2023, no one is using timing belts any more. These must be replaced every 100k miles at a hefty cost. Even if you do the work your self it’s over $600 in OEM parts between tensiones and belt etc. other than this it’s hard to beat it’s reliability. While the Toyota is a good choice, I recommend most to hold on in buying hybrids or EVs for a while. many times simplicity is key. Why complicate your life with a potential of a lot of issues with these systems?
from a contractor view, the kia looks interesting because it has high ground clearance (heavy snow) and the voyager looks good aka price. i didnt measure out the interiors to see if any of them can hold lots of sheetrock, i have seen many contractors load up older generation sienna's with sheetrock and other stuff and been envious. in many ways minivans are better than pickup trucks for such things because they can hold insane amounts of stuff with all the seats down. SUV aka crossovers have limited cago capcity compared to minivans.
Carnival with AWD will be the perfect midwest (US) family car. My Odyssey slips and slides whenever I touch the gas pedal when wet or snowy - too much power to the front wheel. My next minivan (and yes, I will buy another) must have AWD for me.
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Most people don't need pickups but can use minivans!
@ who wants minivans....then again you can leave stuff inside the minivan and park somewhere in a somewhat decent area. i known people who lost everthing in their vans when they were working inside somewhere.
@ i know.... but pickup trucks are something i can drive daily and then throw a ladder on top and a bunch of crap when needed a few times a year. minivans are like.... minivans and i have a smallish suv that i will not put a ladder rack on.
Owner of a 2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited S Edition here. Very quiet when in EV mode. Gone through a few recall appointments with the dealer but no big deal. The battery and powertrain are covered for 10 years/100,000mi at least in my state. And got back $8500 in federal and state rebates. I fill up the tank about 4x a year and only because the computer forces you to use up stale gas every few months. Overall, love my Pacifica.
Hey Tony I have the same exact model in a 2020, I could not be happier with it. I do 50 or 60 miles locally a day and it’s 95% electric. What a kick ass van
Everybody has different priorities. The 8" height difference with wife make memory seats a must, after getting that there is no turn back. And ventilated seats makes leather much more comfortable on long trips.
My experiences with the Pacifica (dealership employee) says to avoid avoid avoid. Almost every single one we get always has some sort of problem. Usually electrical. But I love the huge screen in the middle, and the plug-in hybrid capability. I don't specifically need a van, but with my health declining rapidly, it's getting hard to get into my Camry, and these new vans are nice! Thanks for the in-depth analysis!
@@BigKy-Mart hmmm interesting. I’ve never owned a stalantis product long enough to know. I had a gladiator for a couple years and had one super weird situation that left me not being able to drive over 30.
Im in my mid 20s and im not in the market for a minivan i dont have the money for a minivan and yet here i am, watching a detailed comparison video 😂 personally id choose the Pacifica (non hybrid) because of the stow n go, the infotainment, and the fact I can get red leather. I rented a 2015 grand caravan and those stow n go seats were the main reason i got it
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again… the Pacifica is terrible for forward facing car seat and booster installation. The headrests interfere and are not removable (the second row headrests are removable on the hybrid and maybe pinnacle options because they don’t have stow and go, but third row is still a problem). This makes finding carseats and configurations that work for your family are difficult. That is a huge con for a family with kids in carseats and should be taken into consideration. If you need to buy all new carseats that could be over $1200 extra depending on how many new seats you need. Also you can only fit two forward facing carseats in the second row because of the amount of tether anchors. Whereas the Odyssey can fit 6 carseats (assuming the seats fit 3 across, but there are plenty on the market that do) and has no real fit issues with installs. Though getting to the third row with 6 carseats would be difficult, so I agree there. But for families with kids in carseats that don’t need to fit 6 seats, the magic slide second row is a huge benefit and fixes the third row access “issue” you talk about. Being able to shuffle the configuration without messing with car seats is a big plus. And for families who want that, the magic slide floor casing is less of an issue because they aren’t getting a van to haul cargo specifically. I just think they are different vans for that reason. The odyssey is a family hauler, made for families. Where the Pacifica (which is a great van, don’t get me wrong), is more of a multitasker. Especially the models with stow and go. If you want a van that can multitask really well, the Pacifica is probably your best bet. Don’t have kids in car seats? Pacifica would be great. But if you have a lot of kids in car seats or want the most seating options for car seats and flexibility without having to uninstall car seats, then the odyssey is the right choice. As someone with kids in car seats, getting a safe install is my highest priority. Ease of installation is important. My current carseats fitting where I want them to is important. Stow and go is really cool, but in reality isn’t something we would use often. So all of those things are important to take into consideration when comparing these vans. I think blanket statement of the Pacifica being car seat friendly is really misleading. It’s the least friendly for actual installation and no one mentions it.
@@James-il3tq eh, there is a slight quality gap but not as much as the perception at this point. i was just minivan shopping and would suggest people buy the one that fits them the best and not worry about it. they are all good options and 90% the same thing. the 10% that's different is kinda maddening but just find the one that fits you.
@@James-il3tq Alex is a total FCA apologist as is evidenced by his constant purchasing of FCA products for himself, so don't expect him to be honest and point out FCA's terrible track record of poor build quality and reliability.
I would agree with avoiding making a high-price purchase of a non-hybrid Chrysler minivan. I've just had (and heard) too many anecdotal experiences regarding reliability, mainly with transmission, but also other small things. But the Pacifica Hybrid version is completely different, and because it's similar to Toyota's bulletproof Prius drivetrain, along with true EV-mode (which itself is even more simple and reliable than a Prius), I would be comfortable buying it. I think there's a reason that slightly used, 2-3 year old Dodge Caravans are selling for fractions of the price of similar Sienna and Odyssey vehicles.
@@mattspeer01 Romil, would have to disagree. not an FCA (stellantis) fan overall but some of the products are fine. Durango for example is a decent product, outdated now but it tows and is comfortable. 3-4 years ago at a decent price it was a viable choice. for this vid, if someone buys a pacifica they probably aren't going to have a drastically different experience than a sienna. if alex was on here telling people to buy a used dodge journey then ya i'd say that would show some bias.
I would probably have to go with the sienna. The older I get, the more reliability means to me. We have a '17 Pacifica and have had many problems with it. It has been in the shop for a malfunctioning 3rd row seat, a malfunctioning sliding door, and a blown head gasket (40k miles). Plus the hood currently has bubbling paint. I give a little leeway due to it being the first model year, and these have all been warranty repairs, but it's still ridiculous to spend almost 50k on a minivan and have it in the shop for weeks at a time.
And yet I have had two Dodge Caravans that each had over 80,000 miles with no serious issues. Seems like Chrysler reliability is a hit & miss thing. I converted my 2017 RAV4 hybrid into a cargo van, so no longer need a minivan, but if I get another van it will have to have the "disappearing" seats. My Caravans were the best trucks I ever had.
I'm with you bro, also have a 2017 Pacifica Limited and it has been a nightmare of issues. The thing is complete junk compared to the 2012 Odyssey we traded in for it.
On paper Id choose the sienna but Id have to test drive them all to see which one was the better daily driver and met my needs. Back in 2015 i was dead set on sienna until I test drove one and it drove like a bus and saw it didnt offer 3 latch seats in the 2nd row. I got an odyssey because it drove like a car and had 3 latch seats in row 2. At the time I had 3 small kids who couldnt buckle themselves in so this was a big deal. I want going to climb into row 3 to buckle and unbuckle them. Its been 6 trouble free years with the oddy and its been great.
@AlexonAutos - I currently have the Pacifica with the uConnect Theatre. In general it does not have the same level of content and features as a Tablet Computer. However the degree of integration with the uConnect Theatre is amazing. Seamless integration with the unit on the front. wireless headphone allowing 3 separate entertainment zones. Settings and additional controls in the rear for AC. But for the price I would expect a retina display screen and a lot of functionality similar to a tgablet.
Which is the better minivan new? I would say no doubt the Pacifica based on engine, features, tech, looks. After owning 3, 5, 7, 10 years, who can really say. The problem with FCA products has always been their reliability and ability to hold up over time and what will the cost of maintenance be over that period. Make no mistake though, Honda products aren't what they used to be (coming from an owner of a 2006 Odyssey and a 2012 Acura). All of these have their drawbacks, Pacifica and Carnivale - unproven reliability. Honda - frustrating infotainment, Sienna - engine choice or lack thereof. Alex - despite his great reviews, has never factored reliability much into his reviews (I think I once saw him say it was tricky to do so). If you look at CR, they have a "road score" and that's similar to what Alex seems to do in his reviews. CR then looks at reliability data and owner satisfaction to come up with a overall score. The Pacifica has the best road score (tie) but not the best overall score with CR.
Appreciate the effort u put in for this exhaustive comparison. I am sure anyone wanting a minivan can decide watching ur videos . I wonder why dodge caravan is missing in this . Once again. Brilliant content Alex
I think the Dodge Caravan got replaced by the Chrysler Voyager, as the low-end cheap Minivan. But I'm honestly not quite sure, because they've been trying to kill off the Caravan for years since the Pacifica made a revival but it keeps making a resurgence in fleet rentals, etc.
I've always liked the Pacifica because of its stow and go. Those seats aren't the most comfortable ona long trip. But if it's just 4 of us my friend folds them into the floor. No limo has that much leg room. I'm really thinking about a minivan for long trips. As we slept on the floor to La. And was thinking of the Sienna for gas mileage. Now he has me thinking about to plug in Pacifica. Good Series.
I've now done a revisit of this minivan series, because I may be replacing my old Caravan soon. The Toyota hybrid Sienna could be a great choice, however they're not yet affordable or widely available as used. I can find a decent low mileage Honda Odyssey EX-L from 2019 which looks like a good choice. I don't think I'd mind the ZF 9 speed, so I'm leaning that way. Note I'm medically disabled, and limited income, so I have fewer options than if I had better income than I do.
Honda EX-L has a $500 option for the parking sensors. Think that drops the price to achieve all the options talked about instead of going to the touring trim.
Very hard to decide because of the most important information needed on how they are performing and what are the mechanical problems that are showing up. Many of these companies are continuing to manufacture new models without correcting previous problems. I love Alex’s videos just like o see the car inside and other info, then I have to go and find the hardcore reviews.
Toyota Sienna is the best van on the market. My 9 year old Sienna still has a trade-in value of $16k. Chrysler vans rust out on the back window and burn oil at 100k miles. Also, current Siennas are hybrid, so mpg is 36/36.
You didn't mention ground clearance. I live in a snowy climate and five inches of ground clearance means the van will be a snow plow some of the time. This means I had to rule out the Pacifica which I really liked, the Sienna, and the Odyssey.
Looking for a minivan, the Sienna is my first choice for fuel-economy and reliability. The Pacifica PHEV reliability is so unpredictable (not without talking about the cases of fire) and although I have a home charger (Bolt EV), I prefer the Toyota. The Odyssey seems good but drinks too much and the Carnival is just weird (and thirsty too).
Design, tech, value wise Carnival is clear #1. When it comes to suspension set up and feel, overall driving dynamics and packaging Odyssey is still one to beat.
Carnival has more features than any other minivan, such as second row ventilated seats and now can even get 8 passenger seating in the top trim! Now if only it also had a hybrid option.
Great series Alex! Very informative. I think that I’d pick the Pacifica hybrid due to the 7,500$ tax rebate and an additional $750 from my state gov. I also like the idea that I could get most of my 42 mile round trip commute accomplished without using the gas engine. I am considering the Pacifica purchase soon but I worry that a full EV minivan or midsize (3 row) suv is right around the corner. It’s strange but I have been cross shopping the minivans here with the VW id.4 and the Mach-E because they are full EVs but obviously less practical for a family with children.
The practicality of the Pacifica hybrid is superior to your other options. With a 42 mile commute you wouldn’t be using much gas at all. We have 2 kids and went PacHy. Minivans can be beat for kid transport. The one thing I wish I could change would be slightly more ground clearance.
Excellent job on this series Alex. The non removeable 2nd row seats on the Sienna are the only thing that has prevented me from buying one already - I can't believe Toyota did this. I drive an '08 Odyssey (which I continue to like quite a lot, although it's getting old) and will continue to in the short term and hope Toyota changes these seats in 2023 or so.
@@James-il3tq Sure you can but I don't consider that an equivalent procedure to a seat designed to be removed or stowed like every other van. I think it would be acceptable for a long-term removal for a road trip or camper conversion or something like that but most (including me) are not going to remove them to pop over to the lumber yard - this is something I do regularly with my Odyssey.
@@James-il3tq its more like disassembly seat track. also sieanna 2nd row seats have built in side airbags. i wouldn't recommend to disassemble/remove it unless it is extremely required.
for me controlling the kids content without plugs etc is what works for me . so Rear seat entertainment is a key feature. for me Honda wins since EX -RES gives you it for the lowest cost and heating seats with cloth
Great video as always Alex! I’ll be in the market come this fall and this was very relevant for me. I will say that being in the industry Toyota and Honda are the top of my list due to employee perks. On that note, I live in Canada and the 2022 odyssey has a different model line up than the US. Standard trim comes loaded with a lot of the features that appear optional on your list so that might be something worth considering in future videos.
This series is so helpful as I’ll soon be in the market for a minivan but I’m most excited for your review of the Bronco. Hope you get a 2-door for the review since there seems to be tons of 4-door reviews.
Your summary was pretty spot-on, though I think you could ding the Sienna for costing so much to get similar interior features. Bang for buck, the Carnival (EX Trim) is probably the best option for most families.
Another thing to consider is that the Carnival is very new and parts availability is low. If you buy one, Don’t break or crash it right now. It’ll be stuck in the shop for months. The Pacifica and Odyssey have the most parts around.
The entertainment systems are better than iPads simply because there is no fighting. It can keep the whole rear entertained together. It’s easy to flip the screen down throw in a blu ray and keep driving.
Every trim SHOULD have all safety features either standard or, at least, easily optioned… that includes parking sensors, 360 camera, radar, etc… Safety and accident avoidance should not be such a struggle in this day and age… I don’t want to pay for giant wheels, vacuums and rear entertainment just to get the safety features.
As for infotainment... Yes and no Alex: I think the factory solutions a simply safer in case of accidents. Striping tablets is something between hand held and factory solution.
Any concern about degradation of gasoline sitting in the tank of the Pacifica plug in hybrid potentially for months? With the hydroscopic ethanol added to our fuels these days, I would wonder about it.
@@tieningwang9544 yep. This guy knows what he is talking about. No concerns about unburied fuel. If you don’t use it, it will go into FORM mode and force he burning of fuel eventually
Good Q. I found this article that explains the manufacturers thought of this and will purposely put the vehicles in maintenance mode every so often to keep the engine, and gas, in good condition: bestride.com/news/technology/plug-in-hybrids-and-range-extended-evs-need-to-keep-your-fuel-fresh-heres-how-they-do-it
1. I like Toyota's approach with the new Sienna. The Prius-style drivetrain is one of the most reliable pieces of machinery in the auto world, and it's simple, efficient, and I'd imagine, fairly cheap to manufacture at this point. 2. I strongly dislike the Sienna's tall front hood. It's way too tall compared to other minivans, and is quite noticeable when you stand next to it. I'm not enjoying this new American trend in vehicles... 3. Since the Pacifica Hybrid has a same Prius-like transmission, I wish they'd make a regular hybrid version of the VOYAGER, and then maybe somehow try and keep the 2nd-row stow and go seating. If they could do that, and sell it for ~$32k, undercutting the Sienna, I think it would be the absolute best Minivan ever created.
The must have features for the price in a Van, power sliding doors, parking sensors, cross traffic alert, Android auto.. The seats have to be comfortable so even though stow n go is convenient just not practical as the seat are paper thin, sore back after half hour of commuting, even the out going 8 seater Sedona's 2nd row seats are plusher then the Pacifica 1rst row much less the stow seats.. in 2.5 years only once needed full interior volume vs countless trips made i would rather even unbolt seats..
@@apt62 I was hoping the driving dynamics would have become better. I got one as a rental a few years ago (the previous model), and the driving dynamics was terrible. I got a Pacifica for another vacation, and that was decent. Both were not as good as my Odyssey, but I live in the Chicago area, and whenever the snow is on the ground or a little wet, my front wheels slip starting from the stopped position - even with the new tires. I'm getting an AWD minivan next.
@@ooochakalaka I know. That's why I was hoping that the Sienna's driving dynamics would have improved. Then it would be the top pick period. Sienna is still the top one on my list, and I'm going to go test drive it to see if I like it better than the previous model.
Just like built in entertainment i wouldn't pay extra for the on board vaccum as it's not that powerful and u have to start the engine to get better suction cheaper to buy a milwaukee M18 cordless vac on sale with ridiculous power plus very versatile
My local dealers told me Chrysler doesn't produce Pacifica Hybrid at this moment. Carnivals and Siennas are being sold 3-5K above MSRP, so I will probably buy an Odyssey.
For anyone looking for 8-seaters, the Sienna's is really uncomfortable as a cost for the ability to stow it in the rear. My wife, 5'0", found it very terrible. EDIT: It's meant to indicate that even for small people, it is uncomfortable, for those looking to use the 8th seat regularly or for long trips. The 3 other models mentioned were much better in that respect, at least when 8 seat was available. It's one thing I wish AA tested, along with comfort of a fully loaded 3rd row (or at least mention hip width). Regardless, AA 's videos are the most comprehensive.
@@James-il3tq When she's naughty ;) It's meant to indicate that even for small people, it is uncomfortable. We plan to use the 8th seat regularly with kids and grandparents, though did not take them to the dealership to test. The 3 other models mentioned were much better in that respect, at least when 8 seat was available. It's the one thing I wish AA tested, along with comfort of a fully loaded 3rd row (or at least mention hip width). Regardless, AA 's videos are the most comprehensive.
What is your take on the Chrysler Pacifica reliability? I like everything about it but I am very much concerned about long term reliability. I like to keep my cars 10+ years so reliability is a priority for me.
Awesome comparison and exactly what I need as I contemplate swapping my 2018 Odyssey for something else. But Alex, I was wondering if your use of solar panels would influence your choice. Would the EV range of the Pacifica hybrid and the fact you could charge with solar at home be the perfect match for you? That is the way I am leaning, though my biggest holdups are reliability and accessibility (hard to find now and not discounted), so Sienna is also on the table.
This video while excellent and so helpful... is two years old. Would love to hear an update from Alex. Would he still recommend the hybrid pacifica over the AWD for families?
In summary: Like to drive but has to get a larger car for the family? Then the Odyssey with a sweet V6 Vtech, paddle shifters and a more car like drive (as far as minivas go) is your best bet. Only care about fuel economy and don't mind a soulless drive? Then the Sienna with the neutered engine and the joyless cvt may be best for you. Want to "buy a deal", know a mechanic by name, save on fuel but still have some oomph? Get the Pacifica with electric assistance and a V6 plus traditional gear box. Don't want the minivan stigma (that nowadays is actually a SUV stigma) and think you are fooling anyone with a SUV wannabe? Get the rental car... I mean... get the Carnival. Buy it, lease it or just take one for a spin from any rental company near you (or a Chrysler for that matter). Are 50/50 on any of the criteria above? Check the rear seat and chose the one that best fits your family (don't forget about the fight for screens if you have more than 2 kids).
@@fludzone1 not if you don't want your kids glued to screens outside the van. If you don't have iPads the kids will play with healthier toys and be more active. Not all parents want zombie kids. We got the screen in our Odyssey for them to watch on trips but no way in hell will we buy iPads as in real life they will be over exposed to screens no matter how much some parents may say "just limit their time". No iPads at home no limiting to do, and more active and healthy kids. But that is our parenting decision, not everyone has to share this view.
@@deniscdyck Personally, I’d rather have my kids watch the outside world rather than watching screens in the car (or elsewhere), but my comment was aimed more at the economics of the situation, not parenting choices. Getting the trim/option levels that include the screen can add about $3k to the cost of some these choices. Was just pointing out another more economical alternative.
@@fludzone1 not if your roadtrip involves constant trips to Saskatchewan. Absolutely nothing to see for hours. 😂 I get the $ to $ comparison but for us (and that is for us and not everyone) there was more involved than just $. We wanted the van that provided the most fun possible for us as drivers and would keep the kids entertained driving through endless wheat fields for hours on end. We where surprised that the "how much farther?" app in the Odyssey was a bigger hit than the "netflixes". lol
Very useful comparison. I notice you mention the likelihood of great reliability with the Sienna, but not the low likely predicted reliability with the 3 Chryslers. I’ve read that the Chrysler Pacifica has been having problems with electrical, engine, transmission, and freezing infotainment. I would think the Voyager moving from Dodge to Chrysler may be the same. Has Chrysler taken any steps to improve these problems?
I think it's unfair to keep saying you have to get the Odyssey to get seating for 8 in a top trim while the Pacifica Limited should still be considered a top trim.
How does Pacifica Hybrid drive without recharging it? Do you feel the weight of the car then when only gasoline engine is being used? Can the car still slightly recharge itself from breaking?
@@mountainhobo I put polycotton seat covers on my cars, whether they have cloth or leather. Very cool in summer and comfy in winter. If I sell the car I remove the seat covers and the seats look like new.
is there an aftermarket device that will let me control how the pacifica hybrid uses gas? i would love to take it camping. get to my destination all on gas and at night use the battery to heat or cool the cabin while I sleep in the back.
Let's all admit that this is by far the most practical series for the family car buyers in the whole TH-camdom. Thanks, Alex.
Frankly, Alex is making better consumer content than Consumer Reports.
Consumer Reports is falling way behind, but they have a harder job, they have to buy a random product instead of getting sent cars from the manufacturer. Their appliance reviews are several years out of data now sadly
@@joa8593 3 of my friends, my Dad, and two of my neighbors bought cars specifically because I showed them Alex’s videos.
@@ohadparan2853 You can add me to the list. I've purchased two cars in the last decade in large part based on Alex' reviews.
Personally, while I will read CR reviews now and then, they do self-promote more than I like. Then too, their surveys come only from members willing and wanting to do them, not necessarily the best cross section of users all the time. But I will blend their findings in with others I read, not treat them as a bible.
He’s the BEST! All the details and facts. Not paid by anyone to sway his reviews! @alexonautos
Already bought plug in pecifica 1.5 years ago ...on vacation few times in a year but going job daily save lots of money thanks to 30 miles pure electric.
Thanks n congrats for putting hardwork on minivans series 👍...
7 months ago we bought a 2020 PacHy about 2 weeks before my brother bought a 2021 Odyssey. I’ve been convinced we made the smarter choice ever since, and more recently he’s realized the same.
We LOVE the Pacifica. We only need to fill the tank every ~1,300 miles or so during our usual around-town duty. Fed/state/local tax incentives and rebates took $10k off the price, and Chrysler’s end of year incentives and dealer discounts took off ANOTHER $10k, bringing our transaction price down to the low $30s. Brother paid $10k more for a mid-level Odyssey EX-L that doesn’t have half the features of our top trim Pacifica.
We spend half as much on gas and sacrifice only the tiniest bit of performance. Pacifica is more pleasing to the eye to me, both inside and outside - never did warm to the current gen Odyssey styling.
Thank you for the thorough analysis and comparison!
Sounds like Honda’s depreciation advantage was covered by your discounts… And, add to that, your brother is not necessarily getting that Honda reliability/quality advantage either, because the Odyssey has been one of their sketchier models… So it seems you’re winning this round of sibling rivalry!
@@brandononbrand yeah, vehicle with faster depreciation usually has bigger discount
I keep cars a long time. Not suggesting depreciation isn't a concern, but after 10 years and 150,000 miles the difference is minimal, and TCO is unquestionably better with the Chrysler after discounts, tax credits, and gas savings in my personal operating conditions.
@@brandononbrand The 2021+ Odyssey is more reliable than its older counterparts with a better transmission and not being the first year of a generation
@@Blank00 ah ok, that's good... But is it more reliable than the older Chrysler hybrid?
We shopped between the Pacifica hybrid and new Sienna in February at the time. After the tax credit and Chrysler incentives, the PacHy Pinnacle was waaay cheaper than even a mid optioned XLE Sienna. The EV range and more comfortable 3rd row in the Pacifica also made it an easy decision, we love it.
Glad to hear! It by far, is the best van on sale.
Picked up our Pacifica S PHEV(smoke grey w/black trim. The grandkids think we're hip.😂) in May. With $7500 back from the Feds, $4500 back from FCA, and another $3K off at the dealer: We quickly forgot about that Kia we we're cross-shopping. The Kia was nice, but didn't ride nor handle as well as the Pacifica. The interior was a bit nicer, but UConnect 5 is a deal-maker. We love it!
Too bad it will not last as long as the sienna, not even close. Make sure u get rid of that piece of crap before it turns into a money pit.
@@borrachitovsop Perhaps, though a 10 year vehicle service contract is only around $2500, which is still way less than I saved on the purchase compared to a loaded Sienna (a platinum Sienna would have been at least $15k more than I spent)
I bought the Pacifica PHEV. I really loved the plug in part, hardly ever saw a gas pump. The PHEV is outstanding when going down mountain passes. Stranded out of town twice due to a flat and no spare tire. One required a total tire replacement. Bought a full size tire and jack but that meant I lost a lot of cargo area and the 3rd row stow and go. The Hybrid cooling system went out at about 4000 miles and it was in the shop for 30 days. Had a wind vibration in front quarter panel at highway speeds that the dealer could never figure out. After the Hybrid system went out I started doing some research and there was a lot of concern about long term reliability. I finally sold it to CarMax at 7000 miles. I probably would have kept it if not for the vibration issue and the fact of having no where to put the spare tire. The long term reliability issue was also concerning because I planned on keeping 10 to 15 years. Currently waiting to the updates on the 2023 vans before purchasing a new one.
We have a 2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited and it has been great. We qualified for Federal and State tax credits which totalled over 10k. The worst part of owning it has been dealing with the Chrysler dealer network.
I drive past TWO dealers just to go to a high-volume dealer 3 towns over because of the poor dealer experiences. Other than that, our Pacifica has been outstanding. We make the trek from New Hampshire to Naples, FL twice per year and the Pacifica makes it the best road trip.
Had a new Highlander, nightmare, worst purchase ever, Corporate policy no different than the others. You're likely to get a trouble-free one but if you don't, all dealers are the same.
My brother drives 45 minutes to have his Tundra serviced at a Toyota dealership.There’s another Toyota dealership 5 minutes from his house,but horrible customer service.All dealership experiences seem to vary widely.
Pacifica Hybrid Limited with safety package and S Appearance is the sweetest spot for minivan luxury and hands down the best option across all competitors.
Thanks Alex for the great analysis as always.
We have two kids and love our 2018 Pacifica, Limited trim with all the bells and whistles. Mini vans are so practical with infants and toddlers. Now that our kids are a little older (7 and 4) and are starting to snowboard, we are planning to upgrading to the awd version later this year. Wish that they had an awd version back in 2018.
Just put winter tires on and you should be fine unless maybe you plan on going on unmaintained roads.
How the reliability of it so far?
Blind spot monitors and rear parking camera/sensors are my highest safety tech needs. With kids around, the parking sensors can save you with a beep if someone runs behind the van. Blind spot monitors are super helpful when merging and changing lanes in traffic around town especially when you've got kids in the back making noise and distracting you.
I like adaptive cruise control but I consider that more of a convenience rather than a safety feature.
Great video. Love my Pacifica Pinnacle Hybrid. Because we do lots of little 30 mile trips, we go months without filling up gas.
@@fcex558 100k mile warranty. Plenty time. I already owned a Sienna. The new 4cyl is too weak.
Having screens built in to the radio systems is nearly a standard for me. The ability to turn off/on or stop the movie from the front is key. Some of my little ones can't do that yet and need assistance. Plus, i like having the control as I can regulate more of what my kids watch, as opposed to them having access on a tablet. Having to set everything up with a tablet/portable player is much more cumbersome than just having it built right in.
MSRP with key features is very informative. If you can add that part to all reviews would be fantastic.
I think it’s funny that Kia wants to separate itself by being the “un-minivan”, but yet didn’t try and design their new van to hide the one thing that makes it look the most like a minivan…..the sliding door track! The others hide theirs, and Chrysler and Toyota have been doing it for years. Seems like a missed opportunity.
i think they did it because the track is external under a simple removable panel which is way easier to service, repair or replace the track and cables if it gets damaged especially the powered versions
I'd like to see one in person, but trying to split the difference in exterior design between SUV and minivan, seems to have yielded awkward results for the Kia. The "unapologetic" minivans all look better to my eye.
@@ragweedmakesmesneeze I actually saw one in the wild a few days ago, and it looks alright. I'm not sure why Kia is trying to fool, though. It's a minivan, and it looksl like a minivan.
Maybe Pacifica does that too. I laughed when our good friends bought one and said "ours is NOT a minivan"! Then what is it?
Thanks for the incredibly detailed and accuse comparing videos of these minivans. I think I'm going to choose 2022 Sienna. Love its fuel economy, reliability and efficiency and most importantly I feel AWD is quite necessary for a minivan and Sienna is the only one has AWD and hybrid at the same time.
After leasing 2018 Pacifica for 42 month, we decided to buy it out, due to lack of inventory on 2021 Pacifica. It has 80k miles, it turns out to be reliable, convenient (stove and go seats) and the most attractive vehicle on the market today...
I like how much well organized material Alex packs into each episode. He speaks both rapidly and clearly.
I haven't sat in any of the vans discussed. I probably would go for Pacifica if I like its look and feel and am not repelled by the dealership. Perhaps the well equipped base model if a dealership even carries it.
Great video - all good options in this really competitive segment. I own an Odyssey, and I'm surprised by Alex's lukewarm opinion of the Magic Slide seats - it's one of my favorite features in the vehicle. With the eighth seat out, the easiest way *by far* for kids to enter the third row is by sliding one of the outboard captain's chairs to the center of the vehicle, opening a very large opening to the back. (This also means that the inability to tilt the captain's chairs with a carseat in place - another Alex bugaboo - isn't a big deal, at least when the eighth seat is out.)
I really wish the Sienna's captain's chairs (1) moved across the van like the Honda's (especially given that the eighth seat isn't even an option in the top trims), and (2) more importantly, came out.
Agreed. I too own an Odyssey and those seats are great for my 3 kids. We are constantly changing the configuration for different reasons, like toddler kicking door, easy cooler access on road trips, 3rd row access for 3rd kid, etc. Bit I am otherwise unsatisfied with the Odyssey and am considering swapping for Sienna or Pacifica hybrid.
stephen, completely agree.
Sienna second row is a dud. Want 8 leather seats? can't have it. Want 8 even synthetic leather seats with AWD? can't have it. Want seats designed for removal? can't have it.
Agreed. I understand the hump is there when you take the seats out, but how often does anyone take all the 2nd row seats out? Why would the few times you stow or remove the seats be so "game changing" at the sacrifice of comfort? You sit in those seats more than you'd stow or remove them. I've owned minivans since 2008 and not once have I ever removed the 2nd row captain chairs.
Alex needs to do an in depth video of the safety features. One of the reasons I bought an Odyssey over the Pacifica is because the safety features performed better and were more intuitive to use. Blind spot indicator is in a better sight location on the door vs. in the side view mirror. Lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control indicators are in the center dash with great visual icons on the Odyssey. Pacifica icons and indicators are 90’s tech at best with simple on/off light indicators.
Odyssey lane keep assist is smooth with light steering adjustments. The Pacifica lane keep assist bounces in the lane like a ping pong ball. Both vans lane keep assist will deactivate from lack of steering input; the Odyssey provides a clear warning and visual in the main instrument cluster while the Pacifica just stops working and illuminates a 90’s button in the console area near AC controls.
The Odyssey lane departure safety is better and more intuitive as well. Didn’t test the crash avoidance braking, but based on other safety feature performance it’s likely the Odyssey is better than the Pacifica here too.
Oh, and the magic slide seats are a game changer when car seats are needed. No other van can touch the seat configuration flexibility of magic slide. Try climbing to the 3rd row in other vans with car seats in the 2nd row. In the Odyssey you can put 3 car seats in the 2nd row or remove the smaller center seat, put 2 car seats in the 2nd row and move these seats front/back and left/right. Accessing the 3rd row with the 2nd row captain's chair moved to the center is fantastic! Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised that Alex didn't call out that 2nd row seats in the regular Pacifica (maybe the hybrid too?) are fixed and can not slide front to back. Added benefit of magic slide on the Odyssey is without the center seat a child can be positioned in the middle and moved closer to the front seats for adult help (infants, toddlers). You can also move a car sick kid to the 2nd row center position, which helps alleviate motion sickness.
From a driving experience the Pacifica rides just like our Town and Country….lazy and mushy. The Odyssey drives like a big Accord, much more nimble with good feedback.
Also, ever wonder why the US auto companies (and now Kia Sedona=Carnival) keep changing vehicle names? The Pacifica is just the next gen Town & Country. But with a rename FCA/Stellantis magically erases decades of subpar reliability data and starts fresh. Honda and Toyota keep the Odyssey and Sienna names in play even if a few model years were subpar (Odyssey early 2000’s trannys). I'll also call out a concern that Stellantis kills off the Chrysler brand as only the Pacifica and extremely dated 300 remain. Try chasing down hybrid/EV components on the only Pacifica hybrid 3 years from now when they shutter the brand....Ouch!!!
I'll push back on the whole get a couple of iPad's suggestion vs. the rear entertainment. Yes, the minivan RES is expensive relative to an iPad. However, if you attempt to run 2-3 iPad's from either your phone or the van's WiFi hotspot then good luck using them for more than a week. AT&T, Verizon, etc. start to throttle connections after ~20GB of data is used. Running 2-3 iPad's will burn 20GB of data relatively quickly and lead to frustration when things don't work. And that doesn't even factor in network coverage/reliability/speed and that can lead to iPad's not working on a family road trip. Downloading content to the iPad's before a trip is a time sink and is limited by Netflix and others as streaming accounts only allow 1+ devices for downloading content. It is really hard to beat a simple DVD with the ability of the driver/passenger to control playback and change out DVD's on long road trips. If you must have Netflix, Disney, etc. then it is better overall to plug a Chromecast, FireTV, AppleTV into the van's HDMI port, connect to the car/phone WiFi, and display content on one screen thereby reducing tech support and the data needed to stream content in the car. Chromecast is especially good as the passenger can control playback from their phone on long road trips (vs. young kids struggling with content playback).
Hope this helps others in the minivan market! The small nuances in each offering can prove to be the biggest headache in owning these vans. Take your time to compare each model and make sure it works for you. We found out the hard way that the Town and Country is horrible at supporting 3 car seats....thus our move to the Odyssey to make car seat usage much easier.
Honda all the way, got my first Odyssey in 2018 and getting another one this month. Drives like a car not a bus, simple v6 and with the 10 speed it’s much better than my current 9 speed. My only big gripe about the Honda is that they are milking it in not upgrading their V6 to timing chain. It’s 2023, no one is using timing belts any more. These must be replaced every 100k miles at a hefty cost. Even if you do the work your self it’s over $600 in OEM parts between tensiones and belt etc. other than this it’s hard to beat it’s reliability. While the Toyota is a good choice, I recommend most to hold on in buying hybrids or EVs for a while. many times simplicity is key. Why complicate your life with a potential of a lot of issues with these systems?
from a contractor view, the kia looks interesting because it has high ground clearance (heavy snow) and the voyager looks good aka price. i didnt measure out the interiors to see if any of them can hold lots of sheetrock, i have seen many contractors load up older generation sienna's with sheetrock and other stuff and been envious. in many ways minivans are better than pickup trucks for such things because they can hold insane amounts of stuff with all the seats down. SUV aka crossovers have limited cago capcity compared to minivans.
Carnival with AWD will be the perfect midwest (US) family car. My Odyssey slips and slides whenever I touch the gas pedal when wet or snowy - too much power to the front wheel. My next minivan (and yes, I will buy another) must have AWD for me.
Most people don't need pickups but can use minivans!
@
who wants minivans....then again you can leave stuff inside the minivan and park somewhere in a somewhat decent area. i known people who lost everthing in their vans when they were working inside somewhere.
@@bird718 as if truck would be more anti-theft?
@
i know.... but pickup trucks are something i can drive daily and then throw a ladder on top and a bunch of crap when needed a few times a year. minivans are like.... minivans and i have a smallish suv that i will not put a ladder rack on.
Owner of a 2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited S Edition here. Very quiet when in EV mode. Gone through a few recall appointments with the dealer but no big deal. The battery and powertrain are covered for 10 years/100,000mi at least in my state. And got back $8500 in federal and state rebates. I fill up the tank about 4x a year and only because the computer forces you to use up stale gas every few months. Overall, love my Pacifica.
Hey Tony I have the same exact model in a 2020, I could not be happier with it. I do 50 or 60 miles locally a day and it’s 95% electric. What a kick ass van
Everybody has different priorities. The 8" height difference with wife make memory seats a must, after getting that there is no turn back. And ventilated seats makes leather much more comfortable on long trips.
My experiences with the Pacifica (dealership employee) says to avoid avoid avoid. Almost every single one we get always has some sort of problem. Usually electrical.
But I love the huge screen in the middle, and the plug-in hybrid capability.
I don't specifically need a van, but with my health declining rapidly, it's getting hard to get into my Camry, and these new vans are nice!
Thanks for the in-depth analysis!
Don’t you think any of the other brands could say the same? Working at a dealership obviously you are going to see a lot of vehicles needing work.
@@mingomane1 Never said I worked for a Chrysler dealer... I work for a different brand, and our buyer buys a lot of Pacificas... They're all garbage.
@@BigKy-Mart hmmm interesting. I’ve never owned a stalantis product long enough to know. I had a gladiator for a couple years and had one super weird situation that left me not being able to drive over 30.
@@mingomane1 My experience with cars says that they are a step below Hyundai/KIA. Then Ford. Then GM. Honda/Toyota at the top.
Pacifica PHEV. Hands down the best. We have a 2020 and it's great!
How is it holding for now?
Im in my mid 20s and im not in the market for a minivan
i dont have the money for a minivan
and yet here i am, watching a detailed comparison video 😂 personally id choose the Pacifica (non hybrid) because of the stow n go, the infotainment, and the fact I can get red leather. I rented a 2015 grand caravan and those stow n go seats were the main reason i got it
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again… the Pacifica is terrible for forward facing car seat and booster installation. The headrests interfere and are not removable (the second row headrests are removable on the hybrid and maybe pinnacle options because they don’t have stow and go, but third row is still a problem). This makes finding carseats and configurations that work for your family are difficult. That is a huge con for a family with kids in carseats and should be taken into consideration. If you need to buy all new carseats that could be over $1200 extra depending on how many new seats you need. Also you can only fit two forward facing carseats in the second row because of the amount of tether anchors.
Whereas the Odyssey can fit 6 carseats (assuming the seats fit 3 across, but there are plenty on the market that do) and has no real fit issues with installs. Though getting to the third row with 6 carseats would be difficult, so I agree there. But for families with kids in carseats that don’t need to fit 6 seats, the magic slide second row is a huge benefit and fixes the third row access “issue” you talk about. Being able to shuffle the configuration without messing with car seats is a big plus. And for families who want that, the magic slide floor casing is less of an issue because they aren’t getting a van to haul cargo specifically.
I just think they are different vans for that reason. The odyssey is a family hauler, made for families. Where the Pacifica (which is a great van, don’t get me wrong), is more of a multitasker. Especially the models with stow and go. If you want a van that can multitask really well, the Pacifica is probably your best bet. Don’t have kids in car seats? Pacifica would be great. But if you have a lot of kids in car seats or want the most seating options for car seats and flexibility without having to uninstall car seats, then the odyssey is the right choice.
As someone with kids in car seats, getting a safe install is my highest priority. Ease of installation is important. My current carseats fitting where I want them to is important. Stow and go is really cool, but in reality isn’t something we would use often. So all of those things are important to take into consideration when comparing these vans.
I think blanket statement of the Pacifica being car seat friendly is really misleading. It’s the least friendly for actual installation and no one mentions it.
How does the seats interfere? Maybe you have weird overseas. The car mom says the seating is great. Are you sure you are installing them correctly?
One of the "minor annoyances" on UConnect 5 is that wireless carplay does not work 50% of the time for no reason
Kia has a hybrid carnival in the pipeline. As soon as that hits, it seems like the clear #1 to me
Source? I can’t find anything online indicating this.
@@trevormeyers1157 www.drive.com.au/news/kia-carnival-hybrid-coming-in-2022-electric-version-in-2023-report/
I'd go with the Pacifica Hybrid. I could probably go a month or two between fill ups.
I am looking at the hybrid but the fact you can’t get the 8th seat is a deal breaker.
I would go Sienna every time. I’ve had several unreliable Chrysler products. The Toyota is just built better and last longer
Unfortunately Alex doesn't tend to acknowledge this being an auto reviewer and always being in brand new autos.
@@James-il3tq eh, there is a slight quality gap but not as much as the perception at this point.
i was just minivan shopping and would suggest people buy the one that fits them the best and not worry about it. they are all good options and 90% the same thing. the 10% that's different is kinda maddening but just find the one that fits you.
@@James-il3tq Alex is a total FCA apologist as is evidenced by his constant purchasing of FCA products for himself, so don't expect him to be honest and point out FCA's terrible track record of poor build quality and reliability.
I would agree with avoiding making a high-price purchase of a non-hybrid Chrysler minivan. I've just had (and heard) too many anecdotal experiences regarding reliability, mainly with transmission, but also other small things. But the Pacifica Hybrid version is completely different, and because it's similar to Toyota's bulletproof Prius drivetrain, along with true EV-mode (which itself is even more simple and reliable than a Prius), I would be comfortable buying it.
I think there's a reason that slightly used, 2-3 year old Dodge Caravans are selling for fractions of the price of similar Sienna and Odyssey vehicles.
@@mattspeer01 Romil, would have to disagree. not an FCA (stellantis) fan overall but some of the products are fine. Durango for example is a decent product, outdated now but it tows and is comfortable. 3-4 years ago at a decent price it was a viable choice. for this vid, if someone buys a pacifica they probably aren't going to have a drastically different experience than a sienna. if alex was on here telling people to buy a used dodge journey then ya i'd say that would show some bias.
I would probably have to go with the sienna. The older I get, the more reliability means to me. We have a '17 Pacifica and have had many problems with it. It has been in the shop for a malfunctioning 3rd row seat, a malfunctioning sliding door, and a blown head gasket (40k miles). Plus the hood currently has bubbling paint. I give a little leeway due to it being the first model year, and these have all been warranty repairs, but it's still ridiculous to spend almost 50k on a minivan and have it in the shop for weeks at a time.
I’m pretty sure Alex would say practicality > reliability
And yet I have had two Dodge Caravans that each had over 80,000 miles with no serious issues. Seems like Chrysler reliability is a hit & miss thing. I converted my 2017 RAV4 hybrid into a cargo van, so no longer need a minivan, but if I get another van it will have to have the "disappearing" seats. My Caravans were the best trucks I ever had.
I'm with you bro, also have a 2017 Pacifica Limited and it has been a nightmare of issues. The thing is complete junk compared to the 2012 Odyssey we traded in for it.
@@naveenthemachine Alex is a huge FCA fanboi, so he would choose FCA products in pretty much all scenarios.
Is this the Hybrid version or the regular gas version? I'm curious on reliability between the two.
On paper Id choose the sienna but Id have to test drive them all to see which one was the better daily driver and met my needs. Back in 2015 i was dead set on sienna until I test drove one and it drove like a bus and saw it didnt offer 3 latch seats in the 2nd row. I got an odyssey because it drove like a car and had 3 latch seats in row 2. At the time I had 3 small kids who couldnt buckle themselves in so this was a big deal. I want going to climb into row 3 to buckle and unbuckle them. Its been 6 trouble free years with the oddy and its been great.
@AlexonAutos - I currently have the Pacifica with the uConnect Theatre. In general it does not have the same level of content and features as a Tablet Computer. However the degree of integration with the uConnect Theatre is amazing. Seamless integration with the unit on the front. wireless headphone allowing 3 separate entertainment zones. Settings and additional controls in the rear for AC. But for the price I would expect a retina display screen and a lot of functionality similar to a tgablet.
Awesome, I'm loving this series!
You can get the Voyager LXi, which is the fleet version with the vinyl seats, used from rental agencies. I've seen a bunch for sale on Cargurus.
Which is the better minivan new? I would say no doubt the Pacifica based on engine, features, tech, looks. After owning 3, 5, 7, 10 years, who can really say. The problem with FCA products has always been their reliability and ability to hold up over time and what will the cost of maintenance be over that period. Make no mistake though, Honda products aren't what they used to be (coming from an owner of a 2006 Odyssey and a 2012 Acura). All of these have their drawbacks, Pacifica and Carnivale - unproven reliability. Honda - frustrating infotainment, Sienna - engine choice or lack thereof. Alex - despite his great reviews, has never factored reliability much into his reviews (I think I once saw him say it was tricky to do so). If you look at CR, they have a "road score" and that's similar to what Alex seems to do in his reviews. CR then looks at reliability data and owner satisfaction to come up with a overall score. The Pacifica has the best road score (tie) but not the best overall score with CR.
If Toyota put the RAV4 Prime in the Sienna and prices it around 50K then offsets with 7.5K tax rebates I bet that they'll have a long waiting list
Appreciate the effort u put in for this exhaustive comparison. I am sure anyone wanting a minivan can decide watching ur videos . I wonder why dodge caravan is missing in this . Once again. Brilliant content Alex
I think the Dodge Caravan got replaced by the Chrysler Voyager, as the low-end cheap Minivan. But I'm honestly not quite sure, because they've been trying to kill off the Caravan for years since the Pacifica made a revival but it keeps making a resurgence in fleet rentals, etc.
I've always liked the Pacifica because of its stow and go. Those seats aren't the most comfortable ona long trip. But if it's just 4 of us my friend folds them into the floor. No limo has that much leg room. I'm really thinking about a minivan for long trips. As we slept on the floor to La. And was thinking of the Sienna for gas mileage. Now he has me thinking about to plug in Pacifica. Good Series.
Good series of info on minivans. I'd opt for a Sienna, reliability and high gas mileage are why. I live in an apartment so a plug-in hybrid is out.
I've now done a revisit of this minivan series, because I may be replacing my old Caravan soon. The Toyota hybrid Sienna could be a great choice, however they're not yet affordable or widely available as used. I can find a decent low mileage Honda Odyssey EX-L from 2019 which looks like a good choice. I don't think I'd mind the ZF 9 speed, so I'm leaning that way.
Note I'm medically disabled, and limited income, so I have fewer options than if I had better income than I do.
Honda EX-L has a $500 option for the parking sensors. Think that drops the price to achieve all the options talked about instead of going to the touring trim.
Very hard to decide because of the most important information needed on how they are performing and what are the mechanical problems that are showing up. Many of these companies are continuing to manufacture new models without correcting previous problems. I love Alex’s videos just like o see the car inside and other info, then I have to go and find the hardcore reviews.
I’d pick the Pacifica hybrid
Toyota Sienna is the best van on the market. My 9 year old Sienna still has a trade-in value of $16k. Chrysler vans rust out on the back window and burn oil at 100k miles. Also, current Siennas are hybrid, so mpg is 36/36.
If Toyota sold a cargo version Sienna it would do very well. 2 seats, no rear window, etc
You didn't mention ground clearance. I live in a snowy climate and five inches of ground clearance means the van will be a snow plow some of the time. This means I had to rule out the Pacifica which I really liked, the Sienna, and the Odyssey.
Looking for a minivan, the Sienna is my first choice for fuel-economy and reliability. The Pacifica PHEV reliability is so unpredictable (not without talking about the cases of fire) and although I have a home charger (Bolt EV), I prefer the Toyota. The Odyssey seems good but drinks too much and the Carnival is just weird (and thirsty too).
I go Honda Odyssey 2021
👍😊
Design, tech, value wise Carnival is clear #1. When it comes to suspension set up and feel, overall driving dynamics and packaging Odyssey is still one to beat.
Carnival has more features than any other minivan, such as second row ventilated seats and now can even get 8 passenger seating in the top trim! Now if only it also had a hybrid option.
Great series Alex! Very informative. I think that I’d pick the Pacifica hybrid due to the 7,500$ tax rebate and an additional $750 from my state gov. I also like the idea that I could get most of my 42 mile round trip commute accomplished without using the gas engine. I am considering the Pacifica purchase soon but I worry that a full EV minivan or midsize (3 row) suv is right around the corner. It’s strange but I have been cross shopping the minivans here with the VW id.4 and the Mach-E because they are full EVs but obviously less practical for a family with children.
The practicality of the Pacifica hybrid is superior to your other options. With a 42 mile commute you wouldn’t be using much gas at all. We have 2 kids and went PacHy. Minivans can be beat for kid transport. The one thing I wish I could change would be slightly more ground clearance.
Excellent job on this series Alex. The non removeable 2nd row seats on the Sienna are the only thing that has prevented me from buying one already - I can't believe Toyota did this. I drive an '08 Odyssey (which I continue to like quite a lot, although it's getting old) and will continue to in the short term and hope Toyota changes these seats in 2023 or so.
The seats are removable if you need. How to has been posted online.
@@James-il3tq Sure you can but I don't consider that an equivalent procedure to a seat designed to be removed or stowed like every other van. I think it would be acceptable for a long-term removal for a road trip or camper conversion or something like that but most (including me) are not going to remove them to pop over to the lumber yard - this is something I do regularly with my Odyssey.
@@James-il3tq its more like disassembly seat track. also sieanna 2nd row seats have built in side airbags. i wouldn't recommend to disassemble/remove it unless it is extremely required.
@@James-il3tq the engine is removable too if you need. Just need some tools
JK haha
for me controlling the kids content without plugs etc is what works for me . so Rear seat entertainment is a key feature. for me Honda wins since EX -RES gives you it for the lowest cost and heating seats with cloth
Great video as always Alex! I’ll be in the market come this fall and this was very relevant for me. I will say that being in the industry Toyota and Honda are the top of my list due to employee perks. On that note, I live in Canada and the 2022 odyssey has a different model line up than the US. Standard trim comes loaded with a lot of the features that appear optional on your list so that might be something worth considering in future videos.
Top notch take Alex as always.
This series is so helpful as I’ll soon be in the market for a minivan but I’m most excited for your review of the Bronco. Hope you get a 2-door for the review since there seems to be tons of 4-door reviews.
Your summary was pretty spot-on, though I think you could ding the Sienna for costing so much to get similar interior features. Bang for buck, the Carnival (EX Trim) is probably the best option for most families.
Very helpful info wo all the top trim confusion that comes with other reviews. Most of us don’t end up with top trim.
Another thing to consider is that the Carnival is very new and parts availability is low. If you buy one, Don’t break or crash it right now. It’ll be stuck in the shop for months. The Pacifica and Odyssey have the most parts around.
The entertainment systems are better than iPads simply because there is no fighting. It can keep the whole rear entertained together. It’s easy to flip the screen down throw in a blu ray and keep driving.
Every trim SHOULD have all safety features either standard or, at least, easily optioned… that includes parking sensors, 360 camera, radar, etc… Safety and accident avoidance should not be such a struggle in this day and age…
I don’t want to pay for giant wheels, vacuums and rear entertainment just to get the safety features.
Parking sensors prevent fender benders, but aren't really a safety feature. You need auto rear braking to avoid mowing down a child.
@@joa8593 yes, bring all of the safety and accident avoidance features to ALL THE TRIMS… like I said, I want the safety AND the sidewall.
I want a Ram 1500 mega cab with 3 row family seating or Ford EV pickup with rumble seats in Frunk 😆
Great series!
Just waiting for that sienna plug in. My 2011 sienna se is up
To 180k miles.
Team Sienna 💪🏼
As for infotainment... Yes and no Alex: I think the factory solutions a simply safer in case of accidents. Striping tablets is something between hand held and factory solution.
Any concern about degradation of gasoline sitting in the tank of the Pacifica plug in hybrid potentially for months? With the hydroscopic ethanol added to our fuels these days, I would wonder about it.
It will burn the gasoline if it has not used it for long time.
@@tieningwang9544 yep. This guy knows what he is talking about. No concerns about unburied fuel. If you don’t use it, it will go into FORM mode and force he burning of fuel eventually
Go on a long road trip every few months.
@@wtfx5757 good to know, thanks
Good Q. I found this article that explains the manufacturers thought of this and will purposely put the vehicles in maintenance mode every so often to keep the engine, and gas, in good condition: bestride.com/news/technology/plug-in-hybrids-and-range-extended-evs-need-to-keep-your-fuel-fresh-heres-how-they-do-it
1. I like Toyota's approach with the new Sienna. The Prius-style drivetrain is one of the most reliable pieces of machinery in the auto world, and it's simple, efficient, and I'd imagine, fairly cheap to manufacture at this point.
2. I strongly dislike the Sienna's tall front hood. It's way too tall compared to other minivans, and is quite noticeable when you stand next to it. I'm not enjoying this new American trend in vehicles...
3. Since the Pacifica Hybrid has a same Prius-like transmission, I wish they'd make a regular hybrid version of the VOYAGER, and then maybe somehow try and keep the 2nd-row stow and go seating. If they could do that, and sell it for ~$32k, undercutting the Sienna, I think it would be the absolute best Minivan ever created.
I'm still shocked that Kia did not come out with at least a hybrid minivan.
The Kia Carnival.. just got mine.. 2024 SXP .. beyond the competition..
The must have features for the price in a Van, power sliding doors, parking sensors, cross traffic alert, Android auto.. The seats have to be comfortable so even though stow n go is convenient just not practical as the seat are paper thin, sore back after half hour of commuting, even the out going 8 seater Sedona's 2nd row seats are plusher then the Pacifica 1rst row much less the stow seats.. in 2.5 years only once needed full interior volume vs countless trips made i would rather even unbolt seats..
I'd go with Toyota every time... Performance, comfort, MPG and history of reliability.
I rented one last week. It was horrible to drive and the mpg is not as good as advertised.
@@apt62 I was hoping the driving dynamics would have become better. I got one as a rental a few years ago (the previous model), and the driving dynamics was terrible. I got a Pacifica for another vacation, and that was decent. Both were not as good as my Odyssey, but I live in the Chicago area, and whenever the snow is on the ground or a little wet, my front wheels slip starting from the stopped position - even with the new tires. I'm getting an AWD minivan next.
@@joshuaychung Sienna has AWD...
@@apt62 I'm averaging 39 mpg...
@@ooochakalaka I know. That's why I was hoping that the Sienna's driving dynamics would have improved. Then it would be the top pick period. Sienna is still the top one on my list, and I'm going to go test drive it to see if I like it better than the previous model.
Pacifica Hybrid wins in my opinion
Just did 3500km on my last fuel tank Pacifica PHEV 2021 Limited.
The sole reason I didn't go for the Pinnacle PacHy is because I agreed with Alex that I should rather spend that money on a couple of iPads
Just like built in entertainment i wouldn't pay extra for the on board vaccum as it's not that powerful and u have to start the engine to get better suction cheaper to buy a milwaukee M18 cordless vac on sale with ridiculous power plus very versatile
My local dealers told me Chrysler doesn't produce Pacifica Hybrid at this moment. Carnivals and Siennas are being sold 3-5K above MSRP, so I will probably buy an Odyssey.
For anyone looking for 8-seaters, the Sienna's is really uncomfortable as a cost for the ability to stow it in the rear. My wife, 5'0", found it very terrible.
EDIT: It's meant to indicate that even for small people, it is uncomfortable, for those looking to use the 8th seat regularly or for long trips.
The 3 other models mentioned were much better in that respect, at least when 8 seat was available.
It's one thing I wish AA tested, along with comfort of a fully loaded 3rd row (or at least mention hip width). Regardless, AA 's videos are the most comprehensive.
You make your wife ride on the rear?
@@James-il3tq When she's naughty ;)
It's meant to indicate that even for small people, it is uncomfortable. We plan to use the 8th seat regularly with kids and grandparents, though did not take them to the dealership to test.
The 3 other models mentioned were much better in that respect, at least when 8 seat was available.
It's the one thing I wish AA tested, along with comfort of a fully loaded 3rd row (or at least mention hip width). Regardless, AA 's videos are the most comprehensive.
This did not age well. The Pacifica PHEV is basically the least reliable vehicle of all time
cant go wrong with all these vans. it just matter what fits your need. there is no van that has upper hand. pick your flavor...
Great review!
What is your take on the Chrysler Pacifica reliability? I like everything about it but I am
very much concerned about long term reliability. I like to keep my cars 10+ years so reliability is a priority for me.
Alex, what would be your pick if you want to keep minivan for at least 10 years? Is it will be different choice if I want to by new or used?
Awesome comparison and exactly what I need as I contemplate swapping my 2018 Odyssey for something else. But Alex, I was wondering if your use of solar panels would influence your choice. Would the EV range of the Pacifica hybrid and the fact you could charge with solar at home be the perfect match for you? That is the way I am leaning, though my biggest holdups are reliability and accessibility (hard to find now and not discounted), so Sienna is also on the table.
This video while excellent and so helpful... is two years old. Would love to hear an update from Alex. Would he still recommend the hybrid pacifica over the AWD for families?
Personally yes unless you really need AWD
Thanks Alex 🙏🏿
I’ll buy the Toyota when they prime it. My 2007 Odyssey should last a few more years.
In summary:
Like to drive but has to get a larger car for the family? Then the Odyssey with a sweet V6 Vtech, paddle shifters and a more car like drive (as far as minivas go) is your best bet.
Only care about fuel economy and don't mind a soulless drive? Then the Sienna with the neutered engine and the joyless cvt may be best for you.
Want to "buy a deal", know a mechanic by name, save on fuel but still have some oomph? Get the Pacifica with electric assistance and a V6 plus traditional gear box.
Don't want the minivan stigma (that nowadays is actually a SUV stigma) and think you are fooling anyone with a SUV wannabe? Get the rental car... I mean... get the Carnival. Buy it, lease it or just take one for a spin from any rental company near you (or a Chrysler for that matter).
Are 50/50 on any of the criteria above? Check the rear seat and chose the one that best fits your family (don't forget about the fight for screens if you have more than 2 kids).
Get it without the screens and buy iPads for the family. Much cheaper that way.
@@fludzone1 not if you don't want your kids glued to screens outside the van. If you don't have iPads the kids will play with healthier toys and be more active. Not all parents want zombie kids.
We got the screen in our Odyssey for them to watch on trips but no way in hell will we buy iPads as in real life they will be over exposed to screens no matter how much some parents may say "just limit their time". No iPads at home no limiting to do, and more active and healthy kids. But that is our parenting decision, not everyone has to share this view.
@@deniscdyck Personally, I’d rather have my kids watch the outside world rather than watching screens in the car (or elsewhere), but my comment was aimed more at the economics of the situation, not parenting choices. Getting the trim/option levels that include the screen can add about $3k to the cost of some these choices. Was just pointing out another more economical alternative.
Yep, we went with the ‘22 Odyssey for those reasons. Plus my spouse wouldn’t touch a Chrysler product.
@@fludzone1 not if your roadtrip involves constant trips to Saskatchewan. Absolutely nothing to see for hours. 😂
I get the $ to $ comparison but for us (and that is for us and not everyone) there was more involved than just $. We wanted the van that provided the most fun possible for us as drivers and would keep the kids entertained driving through endless wheat fields for hours on end. We where surprised that the "how much farther?" app in the Odyssey was a bigger hit than the "netflixes". lol
Very useful comparison. I notice you mention the likelihood of great reliability with the Sienna, but not the low likely predicted reliability with the 3 Chryslers. I’ve read that the Chrysler Pacifica has been having problems with electrical, engine, transmission, and freezing infotainment. I would think the Voyager moving from Dodge to Chrysler may be the same. Has Chrysler taken any steps to improve these problems?
He actually did mention the reliability of the Chrysler. I’ve had mine going on 50 K miles and it’s been perfect! A hybrid model
I think it's unfair to keep saying you have to get the Odyssey to get seating for 8 in a top trim while the Pacifica Limited should still be considered a top trim.
No 8 seats in the hybrid tho.
@@MrKillerRC No hybrid Odyssey so it's still comparable. I'm sure the take up on 8 seaters is pretty low anyway.
Also worth asking what top-trim features you get in the Honda that are not available on the Carnival SX, other than ventilated seats.
I was hoping for towing capability for these minivans
Only if Pacifica Hybrid top end came with a non leather option.
How does Pacifica Hybrid drive without recharging it? Do you feel the weight of the car then when only gasoline engine is being used? Can the car still slightly recharge itself from breaking?
He talks about that in another part of the series and yes it can charge a lot
Pacifica doesn’t come with ventilated seats 💺 That’s unfortunate because in Florida it’s a feature that is required as air conditioning
You can get ventilated seats in the limited trim. Work great.
@@wtfx5757 thanks that makes it a better choice 👍
Cloth seats breath. I am in California where it can be brutally hot, and I have only used cloth for many many years, and wouldn't do anything else.
@@mountainhobo I put polycotton seat covers on my cars, whether they have cloth or leather. Very cool in summer and comfy in winter. If I sell the car I remove the seat covers and the seats look like new.
@@rizzlerazzleuno4733 That's what my dad used to do, but I suppose I have gotten lazier. Perhaps I should try it. :)
just curious how did you come up with the sienna being an ultra reliable option? It is a brand new platform/drivetrain. Hybrid paired with a CVT.
I wonder how used fleet Voyagers stack against the current crop of minivans.
Cost of replacement batteries should be a concern. And to the environment.
Would buy the Kia if AWD available. Sienna for now, due to need of AWD.
Minivan episode 3 is missing? I couldn't find it
Alex, I was unable to find the minivan t-shirt on your website. Do you have a link to it? Thanks.
is there an aftermarket device that will let me control how the pacifica hybrid uses gas? i would love to take it camping. get to my destination all on gas and at night use the battery to heat or cool the cabin while I sleep in the back.