Good to hear the polini has serviceability and parts are available haven't seen many bikes equipped with the motor in the uk, I like how the Shimano motor feels when riding but think my next ebike will have a Bosch just because servicing them is supported better. Good to hear your thoughts on these different motors, maybe you could look at the different controls and software they all use and which is best.
Yeah I've come to the same conclusion. Bosch is the best because of that instant power delivery. Other motors have over run as well but none are so fast with the power. That's what you need to keep the power going in technical segments where you need to crank back the pedals to avoid strikes while still going. Powerplay is really powerful but they've ruined the motor with bad software choices. It only delivers power after the first pedal stroke. Which means the motor is useless in technical terrain.
Bafang BBSHD!! 8K on two different motors,5 crashes and only a magnet falling off the brakes is the only damage incurred and reconnect the battery is the only inconvenience, Also very rain repellent and durable 💪👌👍
Since ZF made the new update for the BMZ/Sachs RS, it‘s overall the best Motor without any competition! 112nm Torque, EXTREMELY Powerful and very Punchy, even at a low cadence! The responsiveness and dosability are extremely good since the update! And it’s an 48V System, which allows that the BMZ RS has a lot more Range than all the other good motors even with a smaller Battery, although he is so much stronger than the others! And it’s an extremely stable engine with little problems and lots less than some of the others! ☺️👌🏼 Bosch CX/Race, Brose Drive S Mag, Yamaha PW-X3, Shimano EP801, all Motors feels extremely weak and lame after you drove the BMZ RS! 🤣 The only Motor who could keep up or is a little bit stronger is the TQ HPR 120s, but that is ugly and is so much worse in a lot of things! All combined it’s overall the best Motor Imho! You‘ll get an extremely powerful Motor who the others are not even comparable, a lot more range, less repairs than the most, the same or better responsiveness and dosability and an extremely direct and punchy Motor! 😌 I don’t see any downside with the Bmz RS besides that there are not many bikes with that engine! Before the update, the responsiveness and dosability was the point, where the others were ahead and where the others were better, but since the new update fixed this problem, it’s with a BIG GAP the best Power E Bike Motor! ☺️ Now there is not even one single thing that the other motors do a lot better! It’s not even comparable! 💀 Until there are new Motors that improve in some cases a lot, i would even say that it is a no Brainer and the Motor that you HAVE to choose! 🤷🏽♂️ It’s completely objectively considered simply THE BEST Motor! 🤷🏽♂️ The others simply can’t keep up with the BMZ RS! 🙈 If you think that the Bosch CX Race is so powerful and like you said in the video „that is not possible with other motors“ as you climbed up the trail, then you have for sure never drove the BMZ RS! 💀 That Motor would do the exact same with ease in the Turbo Mode! Then even the CX Race with the extended Boost and Race Mode is a lot weaker! And the best is that the RS could hold this Power without Problems! Like i said, with his 48V and 112nm it is on his own League with the Power that it has! 😅👍🏼
I have tried the RS from Sachs and yes that extra power is almost uncontrollable, a lot depends though on your riding skill to appreciate all the power. Thanks for writing your experiences.
@@alexbiketester EP801 firmware 4.3.0 is out with a heap of awesome features: Ver. 4.3.0 ■ AUTO SHIFT has evolved into AUTO SHIFT 2.2. ・ More precise gearshift control for AUTO SHIFT while pedaling that responds to changes in terrain and speed - Better gear shifting timing during acceleration. - Optimal gear shifting timing for each assist setting. - Holds manually shifted gear position in AUTO SHIFT mode, allowing you to continue pedaling in the appropriate gear - Self-learning has been added to the AUTO SHIFT function of internal shifting units ・ Improved shifting response for Automatic FREE SHIFT in aggressive riding - Improved response to rapid deceleration, achieving faster shifting to a lower gear ■ New functions have been added to the assist settings. ・ The "assist carry over function" has been added to the assist settings. This 3-level selectable function allows you to select the duration that assist continues after pedaling stops.* ・ The "assist cutoff function" has been added to the assist settings. This 3-level selectable function allows you to select when the assist cutoff starts near the maximum speed limit.* ・ An aggressive assist character has been added to the assist settings. The characteristics of the existing assist character Lv15 have been changed to be more aggressive.* *These settings can be changed on E-TUBE PROJECT Professional ver. 5.3.2. If you wish to make changes, please consult your place of purchase or a distributor. For E-TUBE PROJECT Cyclist, these settings will be available in the version after ver. 5.3.2. ■ Others General bug fixes.
I agree with you with the Bosch, I've ridden Brose, Shimano, Yamaha & Bafang, I'm only interested in Bosch motor ebikes, all the others, doesn't interest me 🤪
I do desîgn motors for high end ebikes and emotos, all motors have different characteristics. Bosch is no exception. Mxus is not heard about but has excellent quality mid drive motors. The bbshd is unmatched yet.
Bosch in terms of power delivery and setup is great, especially the smart system is great. But mounting it with fiddly mounting plates and M5 screws.... Come on, that is just junk! I have a 2021 Radon Render with 2 wallowed out frame holes because of this. Ok I do like to crank quite hard and with a MX background be quite hard on the equipment but this design is beyond me! I have seen that they have learned from their mistake and the SX motor is attached with a through axle with bolts. Much better IMO. But I think the systems with motor and integrated gearbox like Pinion are the way to go for ebikes.
My Bosch CX Race has proven unreliable. In the shop for the third time for the same issue. 7 weeks total now, 500 miles on the bike, more than half dealing with the bike turning off throughout my rides.
@@alexbiketester crestline, it seems to be narrowed down to a motor issue but no decision on replacing it yet. Been through the latch and the battery connector already. Bike was turning off after so much pedaling. If we took a break, then descended, it wouldn’t turn off. Turn around to go back up, major issues as if it’s overheating.
So how is the overrun different between race and the normal CX? Because when you showed what you can do with the race you can definitely do that with the normal motor as well. More power longer overrun? Have you tried the normal motor?
It has a broad power spike in race mode, the motor feels like it has marginally higher thicker peaks to the power bursts. Like a fat wave compared to a thin wave of the same height, to use a surfing analogy.
I wish shimano would have some adjustment on the over run ive got ep800 damn shame i cant upgrade to more powerful ep801 Not sure what ill go next bike, im not big on the bosch less natural feeling in middle power modes
Doesn’t matter what you use .Your still only aloud to go 15 mph here in the uk .It’s like buy a sports car - your speed is still the same as that old banger your next too .
With ZF launching at Eurobike and DJI coming to market, it seems the top dogs will have stiff competition. That ZF looks like a Fazua 60 on steroids and may dominate the light e-bike market in 2025...
unlikely. I was talking to a top engineer from one of the top brands and people need to apply caution. These motors are not actually going to be going anywhere for a long while. The problem is the service network, plus politics with DJI. Also a few small questions about heat management.
@@alexbiketester Thanks! I'll be looking to buy my first serious e-mtb within a year or so, and the entire 'right to repair' thing has me hesitating. The 'closed box' scenario that many ebike motor providers employ worry me because of the huge costs involved with out-of-warranty motor and battery replacements that are practically inevitable. Or, are ebikes essentially disposable once the owner can't fix them anymore...? It's an uneasy situation that is largely ignored, and one that affects everyone interested in getting a real performance eeb. I used to work at a motorcycle dealership in my youth, and you could buy every gear, washer, electronic connector on any motorcycle - why do we not have the same access for these ebikes?
Hey alex I have the Polini, fantastic motor. Just massively bashed it in the alps, sent off for a quick repair and all good again. I have been trying to find an exploded diagram with par numbers was wondering if you could share where you got the diagram
There aren't any in the wild yet being passed around. They are not on mass market bikes. Possibly available more next year, at the moment what you are seeing is marketing videos, not proper tests.
Yamaha is lazy in the beginning and pulls after you get moving. That is a very bad charasteristic for an ebike motor. It means you can't keep speed in technical terrain. KOMs don't mean much if you have no competition as is the case with ebike segments. There are a lot of normal bike segments that are perfected but I haven't really seen a single serious ebike segment where someone has done a great run.
Great to hear the comparison all in one video. Very informative. Thank you 👍🏻
Glad it was helpful!
I hope you get to try Pinion integrated gear motor and let us know.
That would be good, will see what I can do.
Good to hear the polini has serviceability and parts are available haven't seen many bikes equipped with the motor in the uk, I like how the Shimano motor feels when riding but think my next ebike will have a Bosch just because servicing them is supported better. Good to hear your thoughts on these different motors, maybe you could look at the different controls and software they all use and which is best.
Will do that!
Yeah I've come to the same conclusion. Bosch is the best because of that instant power delivery. Other motors have over run as well but none are so fast with the power. That's what you need to keep the power going in technical segments where you need to crank back the pedals to avoid strikes while still going.
Powerplay is really powerful but they've ruined the motor with bad software choices. It only delivers power after the first pedal stroke. Which means the motor is useless in technical terrain.
Good video!!❤🎉
Thank you!!
Totaly agree with you for the extended boost feature
I recently upgraded to a canyon strive on crf Ltd with Bosch race motor , it is a hand full in race mode lol
its very zappy
Bafang BBSHD!! 8K on two different motors,5 crashes and only a magnet falling off the brakes is the only damage incurred and reconnect the battery is the only inconvenience, Also very rain repellent and durable 💪👌👍
Ottimo video
grazie, fra un po lo faccio anche in italiano....
Since ZF made the new update for the BMZ/Sachs RS, it‘s overall the best Motor without any competition! 112nm Torque, EXTREMELY Powerful and very Punchy, even at a low cadence!
The responsiveness and dosability are extremely good since the update!
And it’s an 48V System, which allows that the BMZ RS has a lot more Range than all the other good motors even with a smaller Battery, although he is so much stronger than the others!
And it’s an extremely stable engine with little problems and lots less than some of the others! ☺️👌🏼
Bosch CX/Race, Brose Drive S Mag, Yamaha PW-X3, Shimano EP801, all Motors feels extremely weak and lame after you drove the BMZ RS! 🤣
The only Motor who could keep up or is a little bit stronger is the TQ HPR 120s, but that is ugly and is so much worse in a lot of things!
All combined it’s overall the best Motor Imho!
You‘ll get an extremely powerful Motor who the others are not even comparable, a lot more range, less repairs than the most, the same or better responsiveness and dosability and an extremely direct and punchy Motor! 😌
I don’t see any downside with the Bmz RS besides that there are not many bikes with that engine!
Before the update, the responsiveness and dosability was the point, where the others were ahead and where the others were better, but since the new update fixed this problem, it’s with a BIG GAP the best Power E Bike Motor! ☺️
Now there is not even one single thing that the other motors do a lot better!
It’s not even comparable! 💀
Until there are new Motors that improve in some cases a lot, i would even say that it is a no Brainer and the Motor that you HAVE to choose! 🤷🏽♂️
It’s completely objectively considered simply THE BEST Motor! 🤷🏽♂️
The others simply can’t keep up with the BMZ RS! 🙈
If you think that the Bosch CX Race is so powerful and like you said in the video „that is not possible with other motors“ as you climbed up the trail, then you have for sure never drove the BMZ RS! 💀 That Motor would do the exact same with ease in the Turbo Mode! Then even the CX Race with the extended Boost and Race Mode is a lot weaker! And the best is that the RS could hold this Power without Problems!
Like i said, with his 48V and 112nm it is on his own League with the Power that it has! 😅👍🏼
I have tried the RS from Sachs and yes that extra power is almost uncontrollable, a lot depends though on your riding skill to appreciate all the power. Thanks for writing your experiences.
New Ep801 update now has adjustable "overrun" like Bosch CX Race
I installed the update, I don't find any adjustable over-run. Where is this feature you are talking about? Which part of the menu ssytem?
@@alexbiketester
EP801 firmware 4.3.0 is out with a heap of awesome features:
Ver. 4.3.0
■ AUTO SHIFT has evolved into AUTO SHIFT 2.2.
・ More precise gearshift control for AUTO SHIFT while pedaling that responds to changes in terrain and speed
- Better gear shifting timing during acceleration.
- Optimal gear shifting timing for each assist setting.
- Holds manually shifted gear position in AUTO SHIFT mode, allowing you to continue pedaling in the appropriate gear
- Self-learning has been added to the AUTO SHIFT function of internal shifting units
・ Improved shifting response for Automatic FREE SHIFT in aggressive riding
- Improved response to rapid deceleration, achieving faster shifting to a lower gear
■ New functions have been added to the assist settings.
・ The "assist carry over function" has been added to the assist settings. This 3-level selectable function allows you to select the duration that assist continues after pedaling stops.*
・ The "assist cutoff function" has been added to the assist settings. This 3-level selectable function allows you to select when the assist cutoff starts near the maximum speed limit.*
・ An aggressive assist character has been added to the assist settings. The characteristics of the existing assist character Lv15 have been changed to be more aggressive.*
*These settings can be changed on E-TUBE PROJECT Professional ver. 5.3.2. If you wish to make changes, please consult your place of purchase or a distributor. For E-TUBE PROJECT Cyclist, these settings will be available in the version after ver. 5.3.2.
■ Others
General bug fixes.
I agree with you with the Bosch, I've ridden Brose, Shimano, Yamaha & Bafang, I'm only interested in Bosch motor ebikes, all the others, doesn't interest me 🤪
only problem is the race motor is on high end bikes only....
I do desîgn motors for high end ebikes and emotos, all motors have different characteristics. Bosch is no exception. Mxus is not heard about but has excellent quality mid drive motors.
The bbshd is unmatched yet.
send me a bike with one for a few weeks and i will give it a try ;-)
@@Playwholeday hahahah
Bosch in terms of power delivery and setup is great, especially the smart system is great. But mounting it with fiddly mounting plates and M5 screws.... Come on, that is just junk! I have a 2021 Radon Render with 2 wallowed out frame holes because of this. Ok I do like to crank quite hard and with a MX background be quite hard on the equipment but this design is beyond me! I have seen that they have learned from their mistake and the SX motor is attached with a through axle with bolts. Much better IMO. But I think the systems with motor and integrated gearbox like Pinion are the way to go for ebikes.
The cx line has that boost feature as well. I’m not sure what makes a race version race.
peak boost is higher
My Bosch CX Race has proven unreliable. In the shop for the third time for the same issue. 7 weeks total now, 500 miles on the bike, more than half dealing with the bike turning off throughout my rides.
whats the bike? might be the battery latch...
@@alexbiketester crestline, it seems to be narrowed down to a motor issue but no decision on replacing it yet. Been through the latch and the battery connector already. Bike was turning off after so much pedaling. If we took a break, then descended, it wouldn’t turn off. Turn around to go back up, major issues as if it’s overheating.
So how is the overrun different between race and the normal CX? Because when you showed what you can do with the race you can definitely do that with the normal motor as well. More power longer overrun? Have you tried the normal motor?
It has a broad power spike in race mode, the motor feels like it has marginally higher thicker peaks to the power bursts. Like a fat wave compared to a thin wave of the same height, to use a surfing analogy.
I wish shimano would have some adjustment on the over run ive got ep800 damn shame i cant upgrade to more powerful ep801
Not sure what ill go next bike, im not big on the bosch less natural feeling in middle power modes
801 is a great motor.
I only ridden bosch active line plus i had my emtb allmost yaer now
@@erikmalmberg7319 it's a good motor. I had to pick the best out there on the market....
Hi Alex, What is Polini lights on mode ? Is it available on all their motors ?
Ask them to activate it..... ;-)
@@alexbiketester Ask Polini? Is it a remote activation?
@@MrThepits Software, that unlocks it speed wise.
Around the 6 min mark what bike was that? I'm in the USA, I don't know alot of these brands...
Thats a New Trek RAIL, that hasnt been released yet.
Isn't that blue one a lappeire?
@@justind5262 yes
We never get to know how EFFICIENT motors are, i.e. watts in to power out, which will affect range.
Good point. We need a test bench for that, I think a German magazine did something on it in the past.
Doesn’t matter what you use .Your still only aloud to go 15 mph here in the uk .It’s like buy a sports car - your speed is still the same as that old banger your next too .
Can you please make more videos about the mondraker crusher rr?
I will, what do you want to know?
@@alexbiketester like a review about the bike would be cool
@@senfterjulian684 there is already a short one up on my channel... check it out. Longer one soon.
@@alexbiketester okay ty!
How does the bafang compare?
Problem is finding a bike with it on.
I like my EP8 on my Canyon Torque. No issues.
Its been reliable with me.
What about Specialized custom Brose?
Not ridden it for ages
With ZF launching at Eurobike and DJI coming to market, it seems the top dogs will have stiff competition. That ZF looks like a Fazua 60 on steroids and may dominate the light e-bike market in 2025...
unlikely. I was talking to a top engineer from one of the top brands and people need to apply caution. These motors are not actually going to be going anywhere for a long while. The problem is the service network, plus politics with DJI. Also a few small questions about heat management.
Are any polini motor’s offered in USA?
I will get back to you on this... I will ask them.
@@alexbiketester Thanks! I'll be looking to buy my first serious e-mtb within a year or so, and the entire 'right to repair' thing has me hesitating. The 'closed box' scenario that many ebike motor providers employ worry me because of the huge costs involved with out-of-warranty motor and battery replacements that are practically inevitable. Or, are ebikes essentially disposable once the owner can't fix them anymore...? It's an uneasy situation that is largely ignored, and one that affects everyone interested in getting a real performance eeb. I used to work at a motorcycle dealership in my youth, and you could buy every gear, washer, electronic connector on any motorcycle - why do we not have the same access for these ebikes?
Im arranging a visit to Polini to talk about repairs and motors.... how and why they do it....
@@alexbiketester excellent! very curious about them
Hey alex I have the Polini, fantastic motor. Just massively bashed it in the alps, sent off for a quick repair and all good again. I have been trying to find an exploded diagram with par numbers was wondering if you could share where you got the diagram
That Nukeproof is a beast
They are gold dust now... Try and find one.... Amazing bike.
@@alexbiketester I was lucky to get one used with 24 miles on it 🙌🏾
@@markh2k2 wow.... lucky boy
@@alexbiketester £6500 not bad aye. You have a new subscriber 👍🏽
Pinion MGU?
There aren't any in the wild yet being passed around. They are not on mass market bikes. Possibly available more next year, at the moment what you are seeing is marketing videos, not proper tests.
Is the Yamaha motor not a good choice?
Its good, but not in my top 5 for the moment.
Thank you
What's wrong with Yamaha? I've been racing mine for 4yrs now on single track with not a single issue, set lap records, strava Koms and I'm 66.
These are my favourite 5 for the reasons I mentioned. Yamaha is reliable but doesn't stand out compared to these motors
Yamaha is lazy in the beginning and pulls after you get moving. That is a very bad charasteristic for an ebike motor. It means you can't keep speed in technical terrain.
KOMs don't mean much if you have no competition as is the case with ebike segments. There are a lot of normal bike segments that are perfected but I haven't really seen a single serious ebike segment where someone has done a great run.
@@rawmancemtb I have a few... lol
Polini MX
Great motor
Bosch cx better than shitmano. No repair shops.
where are you based?