Thanks for this. I just bought a 1972 beech b19 sport with a high time engine 150hrs over tbo, mechanic says engine is perfect ! Oil Analysis shows no metals, compression is 75+, ttaf is 4500 ok paint, interior 6/10 and paid 27kCAD. Put 20k to fix some corrosion, new windshield, pilot window, a bunch more stuff and plane flies like a dream with old avionics! Could not be happier, and have the funds set aside in case engine goes ! I’m flying !
The M20C and E are excellent ( probably the best) values assuming you get a proper prenup. Hey Mike did you forget the nightmare cost of a SR22 chute repack. The manual gear is pretty darn easy to maintain.
I've got an 1966 M20E for 21 yrs now. Some major issues early but I can't justify any upgrade now as I get older. I wish it had a little bit longer fuel range for IFR reserves but otherwise it has served me well for my mission profile. A turbo would be handy flying over Tahoe regularly but with light loading the E does fairly well.
I know a guy who just bought a Barron for his first airplane. Doesn't even have his multi engine rating yet. But he wanted a six place an said siv place singles were too expensive. I told him the same thing. There's a reason the rwins are cheaper.
I'm currently maintaining a 1961 Cessna 182D Fastback Skylane, (TT 1,600 hrs on airframe. 8 hours on a zero-timed O-470 and the same for the prop). Get a 182 and you probably won't need another plane. The one I'm maintaining has a Robertson STOL kit, too, which gives it great maneuverability at lower speeds and keeps landings a bit smoother with a bit lower final approach. And when we need to, we can cruise at 145 kts. It IS a bit cramped as Cessna didn't widen the fuselage until a couple years later. That, combined with the fastback has us cruising about 5 kts faster than than the widened ones withe the superfluous rear window. -If the owner ever wants to part with it, I'll be first inline to buy it.
This was absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately I missed the live version of this so I’m hoping MIke could answer my question. Using all your tips I’ve narrowed down my first purchase to be a 182. What is your experience in doing pre-buys on CAP planes? That’s the only time I can see a 1985 or 1986 year come to the market. And like Mike said they’re generally flown a lot, have horrific interiors and paint jobs. Thanks again. MIke is an absolute legend.
Airplane with high time engine has some other considerations: loss of use (while paying fixed costs) for 2-4 months for overhaul, possible underestimated costs at engine swap (many fail to consider R&R costs as well as accessories that will be discovered at the engine swap ranging from alternator, vac pumps if it has one, exhaust, SCAT, engine mount repairs, etc.), and the inability to finance the comprehensive engine overhaul -- which can be an issue for the first time buyer that just maxed out their loan for the purchase. Its critical to make sure the downward pricing is sufficient, and frequently I dont see a low enough adjustment on high time engine aircraft offered for sale. Lots of wisdom on the high engine time opportunity, but some considerations that you didnt mention Mike.
When I saw the slide saying "soft cylinder", for a minute, I thought that it was spongy. It's been a long day. Thank you Mike, it is always a pleasure to hear from you.
Please do a webinar on the Cessna high wing lower strut attach point AD. Not that it would help me much, I've already been snared by it, but I'd love to learn about it nonetheless
I am approaching the end of my life. I am 72 6-2 185 lbs. My passion from 13 to 68 was racing motorcycles. My last bike has been a Triumph 955cc Speed Triple cruise speed 80-100 mph top speed 150mph.- 120hp 3 cylinder. Recently I saw a Burt Rutan Quickie 2, and other Canards. I really got an interest in building one. I have been a backyard mechanic for decades so I am not afraid building one! Am I nuts?
Martin, your post is a year old so you may already have an answer. But...as a fellow 72 year old who's life experiences mirror your own, yes. You're nuts. But that's actually an irrelevant question. The real question is how much flight experience do you have, how much enjoyment will you get out of building and perhaps flying your own creation? Go to an EAA chapter and put in some volunteer time building a plane with them. Trust me. That will give you all the answers you're searching for.
The Quickie isn't really a training type of aircraft. If it's your first and you have no other aviation experience, then, yes, you're quite insane. Go get your license, which will run you a good $12K-15K, in a proper training aircraft, then see if you really want to pursue building and flying a tiny, underpowered experimental aircraft. (By the by, if you properly maintain your earthly personal transportation unit (your body), you might squeeze another 25 years out of that EPTU.)
G,day Savvy Aviation from Sydney Australia. Great webinar, aircraft modifications: STC or field modification. I would have considered the only interest the FAA had was that the mod was certified by an FAA approved designer/engineering and the plane is still in its class? I don't like to pay twice: who does? 🌏🇦🇺
John, after that lecture about why twins sell for less, one of the finest Twin Comanches in the world is at Bankstown, comes with a hangar, if you are ready for a twin. My email is 26981@att.net and I am happy to make an introduction.
Twins: LOW CAPEX = HIGH OPEX. Any 'cheap' airplane will cost $$$$ to run. However my 310 gives me way more bang for the buck than spending three times that amount for a Cirrus.
Breaking a deal over headsets is like not buying the house because you didn't like the color of the door. It an emotional decision at that point, not a rational logical one.
Mid 1960s Cessna 172 with a run out engine, worn out interior, mediocre paint, and no avionics upgrades is $85k-$100k. We’ll maintained Mooney M20E with low time engine and good paint/interior is $60k-80k. Yes maintenance isn’t cheap, I’ll take the Mooney all day.
Today, a brand new Turbo 182 can run up to $750K. Having everything new is great, but a well-maintained older 182 can be had for less than $100K. Some that need some love (money) can be had for less than $50K. Set your price, then find the plane to match. I'm currently maintaining a 1961 Cessna 182D Fastback Skylane, (TT 1,600 hrs on airframe. 8 hours on a zero-timed O-470 and the same for the prop). Get a 182 and you probably won't need another plane. The one I'm maintaining has a Robertson STOL kit, too, which gives it great maneuverability at lower speeds and keeps landings a bit smoother with a bit lower final approach. And when we need to, we can cruise at 145 kts. It IS a bit cramped as Cessna didn't widen the fuselage until a couple years later. That, combined with the fastback has us cruising about 5 kts faster than than the widened ones withe the superfluous rear window. -If the owner ever wants to part with it, I'll be first inline to buy it.
No matter what airplane you buy, get a pre buy done! See too many airplanes purchased sight unseen, then the owner gets surprised that it’s in a state of disrepair and suddenly we are the ones ripping them off
@@charlesbukowski9836 I'm APIA Pilot... Have done conditionals on and flown RV 7, 8, 10, and 14's. I am only 26 and do not come from old money so I am working my way up the certs and savings to buy my plane, hopefully debt free. With that said, having worked on Ospreys to Airbus and Boeing to Cessna 150's to Pilatus. If I had an opportunity at a well priced and equipped RV 10, I would probably never buy another airplane ever again for my mission. Easy maintenance, huge support mesh networks, easy parts, excellent pay load and fuel efficiency. I would take a well built RV 10 over 99% of any certificated aircraft for a myriad of reasons. All the RV's I have flown in are wonderfully stable, and responsive on the yoke. It really rides the knife edge of "touchy" but doesn't cross the threshold in my opinion. I know Vans is having huge supply chain management issues for their RV 10 quick build kits right now, just fyi, in my humble opinion.
What plane should I buy??? Answer" NONE - ZERO - NADA. These "spam cans" are money pits. You just keep shoveling money into that pit. However, if you REALLY want to fly, BUILD YOUR OWN airplane. Then, YOU know the plane - you built it. You can do the maintenance - you can fix it - you can do the required inspections. YOU, YOU, YOU. Big money involved? Not really. I think you can build a plane that's flyable for less than $14,000 dollars - to include engine. Will it fly 300 miles per hour? NO. But, it will fly at 80 mph and get you to all of those "fly in breakfasts," where guys can oggle your build. Then you can be proud of what you have accomplished. My last plane, in today's dollars would be around 16K. Not bad. I flew it for 13 years and over 750 hours. Was wood and fabric - had a never exceed speed of 110 mph which I could only get in a decent. Cruised at 78mph. Loved it. No-one else ever worked on it. Build your own. Keeps you off the streets and will give you something to be proud of. N-6395T (last one of 3 I built.)
@@TheReadBaron91 Well, let's start with the Minimax EROS 1650R. Entire kit, less engine is $7,554.00. The engine, new, will run abpout $6,580. Right at $14,000. Yes, you have to build it - OR, you can probably buy a really nice one, used, for around 5K. I built and flew one of these for over 13 years. Logged a little over 750hrs on it. Great flying airplane. The only other plane I enjoyed flying more was the Piper Arrow. Like a little sports car. Then the wings started falling off. True. The EROS will cruise at 80mph (will get you to all of the fly-in breakfasts,) and has a never exceed speed of 110mph. I built my EROS in 6 monhs - now that's working on it 7 days a week. FAA inspected it and I had no "write ups." Got my Special Airworthiness Certificate, then went flying! Here's the EROS: My tail nr. was N-6395T. You can see it if you Google that tail nr. s://www.teammini-max.com/online-store/aircraft-kits/1650r-eros/
if i need buy first plane i buy cheapen what found in usa and need be 4-6 seat plane. and less than 50 000$ have perfect. i looking many yotube video and see less than 30 000$ can buy amny many good plane. but i buy best condition and pay 40-50K max
Thanks for this. I just bought a 1972 beech b19 sport with a high time engine 150hrs over tbo, mechanic says engine is perfect ! Oil Analysis shows no metals, compression is 75+, ttaf is 4500 ok paint, interior 6/10 and paid 27kCAD. Put 20k to fix some corrosion, new windshield, pilot window, a bunch more stuff and plane flies like a dream with old avionics! Could not be happier, and have the funds set aside in case engine goes ! I’m flying !
Steal a man's wallet he'll be broke for a day, teach him to fly and he'll be broke for a lifetime.
But what fun!
After throwing money at women, children and now airplanes one thing is clear....
Planes talk back sooo much less.
Excellent episode! I was falling into all these traps as I am considering and out looking for potencial planes. Notes taken!
The M20C and E are excellent ( probably the best) values assuming you get a proper prenup. Hey Mike did you forget the nightmare cost of a SR22 chute repack. The manual gear is pretty darn easy to maintain.
I've got an 1966 M20E for 21 yrs now. Some major issues early but I can't justify any upgrade now as I get older.
I wish it had a little bit longer fuel range for IFR reserves but otherwise it has served me well for my mission profile.
A turbo would be handy flying over Tahoe regularly but with light loading the E does fairly well.
I was going to post the same, Mooneys are great planes price to performance. Maintenance nowhere near as much as a 210 on a well maintained plane.
I know a guy who just bought a Barron for his first airplane. Doesn't even have his multi engine rating yet. But he wanted a six place an said siv place singles were too expensive. I told him the same thing. There's a reason the rwins are cheaper.
I'm currently maintaining a 1961 Cessna 182D Fastback Skylane, (TT 1,600 hrs on airframe. 8 hours on a zero-timed O-470 and the same for the prop). Get a 182 and you probably won't need another plane. The one I'm maintaining has a Robertson STOL kit, too, which gives it great maneuverability at lower speeds and keeps landings a bit smoother with a bit lower final approach. And when we need to, we can cruise at 145 kts. It IS a bit cramped as Cessna didn't widen the fuselage until a couple years later. That, combined with the fastback has us cruising about 5 kts faster than than the widened ones withe the superfluous rear window. -If the owner ever wants to part with it, I'll be first inline to buy it.
This was absolutely fantastic. Unfortunately I missed the live version of this so I’m hoping MIke could answer my question. Using all your tips I’ve narrowed down my first purchase to be a 182. What is your experience in doing pre-buys on CAP planes? That’s the only time I can see a 1985 or 1986 year come to the market. And like Mike said they’re generally flown a lot, have horrific interiors and paint jobs. Thanks again. MIke is an absolute legend.
Airplane with high time engine has some other considerations: loss of use (while paying fixed costs) for 2-4 months for overhaul, possible underestimated costs at engine swap (many fail to consider R&R costs as well as accessories that will be discovered at the engine swap ranging from alternator, vac pumps if it has one, exhaust, SCAT, engine mount repairs, etc.), and the inability to finance the comprehensive engine overhaul -- which can be an issue for the first time buyer that just maxed out their loan for the purchase. Its critical to make sure the downward pricing is sufficient, and frequently I dont see a low enough adjustment on high time engine aircraft offered for sale.
Lots of wisdom on the high engine time opportunity, but some considerations that you didnt mention Mike.
When I saw the slide saying "soft cylinder", for a minute, I thought that it was spongy. It's been a long day.
Thank you Mike, it is always a pleasure to hear from you.
Please do a webinar on the Cessna high wing lower strut attach point AD. Not that it would help me much, I've already been snared by it, but I'd love to learn about it nonetheless
Well I'm convinced now. Aero Commander 500 for $75,000. Hope I pass my private. Thanks for the advice Mike!
Is an airport even an airport if it doesn't have a derelict Aero Commander sitting on the ramp?
Excellent Webinar and very insightful information. Thanks Mike!!!
I am approaching the end of my life. I am 72
6-2 185 lbs. My passion from 13 to 68 was racing motorcycles. My last bike has been a Triumph 955cc Speed Triple cruise speed 80-100 mph top speed 150mph.- 120hp 3 cylinder. Recently I saw a Burt Rutan Quickie 2, and other Canards. I really got an interest in building one. I have been a backyard mechanic for decades so I am not afraid building one! Am I nuts?
Martin, your post is a year old so you may already have an answer. But...as a fellow 72 year old who's life experiences mirror your own, yes. You're nuts. But that's actually an irrelevant question. The real question is how much flight experience do you have, how much enjoyment will you get out of building and perhaps flying your own creation? Go to an EAA chapter and put in some volunteer time building a plane with them. Trust me. That will give you all the answers you're searching for.
The Quickie isn't really a training type of aircraft. If it's your first and you have no other aviation experience, then, yes, you're quite insane. Go get your license, which will run you a good $12K-15K, in a proper training aircraft, then see if you really want to pursue building and flying a tiny, underpowered experimental aircraft. (By the by, if you properly maintain your earthly personal transportation unit (your body), you might squeeze another 25 years out of that EPTU.)
Thank you so much for sharing. You have opened my eyes to a lot of things I wish I knew ten years ago.
G,day Savvy Aviation from Sydney Australia.
Great webinar, aircraft modifications: STC or field modification. I would have considered the only interest the FAA had was that the mod was certified by an FAA approved designer/engineering and the plane is still in its class?
I don't like to pay twice: who does?
🌏🇦🇺
John, after that lecture about why twins sell for less, one of the finest Twin Comanches in the world is at Bankstown, comes with a hangar, if you are ready for a twin. My email is 26981@att.net and I am happy to make an introduction.
Doesn't really matter which one you buy as long as it's experimental.
So …. Beech 18 would be perfect
Retract, Twin, Taildragger … an insurance trifecta
Twins: LOW CAPEX = HIGH OPEX. Any 'cheap' airplane will cost $$$$ to run. However my 310 gives me way more bang for the buck than spending three times that amount for a Cirrus.
Breaking a deal over headsets is like not buying the house because you didn't like the color of the door. It an emotional decision at that point, not a rational logical one.
Is there anything between a Seneca and a Navajo?
Twin Comanche. Seminole. Apache, Aztec.
Awesome video
Mid 1960s Cessna 172 with a run out engine, worn out interior, mediocre paint, and no avionics upgrades is $85k-$100k. We’ll maintained Mooney M20E with low time engine and good paint/interior is $60k-80k. Yes maintenance isn’t cheap, I’ll take the Mooney all day.
I'm seeing high time 182s for those prices.
@@dougmackenzie5976 high time meaning it’s going to need a $40,,000 overhaul?
How much would a brand new Cessna 182T with the Garmin G-1000 avionics package cost?
550K?
Today, a brand new Turbo 182 can run up to $750K. Having everything new is great, but a well-maintained older 182 can be had for less than $100K. Some that need some love (money) can be had for less than $50K. Set your price, then find the plane to match. I'm currently maintaining a 1961 Cessna 182D Fastback Skylane, (TT 1,600 hrs on airframe. 8 hours on a zero-timed O-470 and the same for the prop). Get a 182 and you probably won't need another plane. The one I'm maintaining has a Robertson STOL kit, too, which gives it great maneuverability at lower speeds and keeps landings a bit smoother with a bit lower final approach. And when we need to, we can cruise at 145 kts. It IS a bit cramped as Cessna didn't widen the fuselage until a couple years later. That, combined with the fastback has us cruising about 5 kts faster than than the widened ones withe the superfluous rear window. -If the owner ever wants to part with it, I'll be first inline to buy it.
No matter what airplane you buy, get a pre buy done! See too many airplanes purchased sight unseen, then the owner gets surprised that it’s in a state of disrepair and suddenly we are the ones ripping them off
There's no free lunch in aviation.
A hamburger costs a $100!
The PMA version only costs $50
When I was doing twin training it was like a $500 burger.
that's easy, a Pitts special.
Thank you Mike!
Grumman Cheetah or Tiger - best all around aircraft ever!
Sorry but RV-10 all day long and even at night ;-)
@@andik2329 I was just looking at the RV's are they good? they seem to be a lot of plane for very less money
@@charlesbukowski9836 I'm APIA Pilot... Have done conditionals on and flown RV 7, 8, 10, and 14's. I am only 26 and do not come from old money so I am working my way up the certs and savings to buy my plane, hopefully debt free. With that said, having worked on Ospreys to Airbus and Boeing to Cessna 150's to Pilatus. If I had an opportunity at a well priced and equipped RV 10, I would probably never buy another airplane ever again for my mission. Easy maintenance, huge support mesh networks, easy parts, excellent pay load and fuel efficiency. I would take a well built RV 10 over 99% of any certificated aircraft for a myriad of reasons. All the RV's I have flown in are wonderfully stable, and responsive on the yoke. It really rides the knife edge of "touchy" but doesn't cross the threshold in my opinion. I know Vans is having huge supply chain management issues for their RV 10 quick build kits right now, just fyi, in my humble opinion.
@@zackarybowen8756 Thanks Zak
What plane should I buy??? Answer" NONE - ZERO - NADA. These "spam cans" are money pits. You just keep shoveling money into that pit. However, if you REALLY want to fly, BUILD YOUR OWN airplane. Then, YOU know the plane - you built it. You can do the maintenance - you can fix it - you can do the required inspections. YOU, YOU, YOU.
Big money involved? Not really. I think you can build a plane that's flyable for less than $14,000 dollars - to include engine. Will it fly 300 miles per hour? NO. But, it will fly at 80 mph and get you to all of those "fly in breakfasts," where guys can oggle your build. Then you can be proud of what you have accomplished.
My last plane, in today's dollars would be around 16K. Not bad. I flew it for 13 years and over 750 hours. Was wood and fabric - had a never exceed speed of 110 mph which I could only get in a decent. Cruised at 78mph. Loved it. No-one else ever worked on it. Build your own. Keeps you off the streets and will give you something to be proud of. N-6395T (last one of 3 I built.)
What airplane can you build for less than $14,000 with engine and avionics?
@@TheReadBaron91 Well, let's start with the Minimax EROS 1650R. Entire kit, less engine is $7,554.00. The engine, new, will run abpout $6,580. Right at $14,000. Yes, you have to build it - OR, you can probably buy a really nice one, used, for around 5K. I built and flew one of these for over 13 years. Logged a little over 750hrs on it.
Great flying airplane. The only other plane I enjoyed flying more was the Piper Arrow. Like a little sports car. Then the wings started falling off. True.
The EROS will cruise at 80mph (will get you to all of the fly-in breakfasts,) and has a never exceed speed of 110mph.
I built my EROS in 6 monhs - now that's working on it 7 days a week. FAA inspected it and I had no "write ups." Got my Special Airworthiness Certificate, then went flying! Here's the EROS: My tail nr. was N-6395T. You can see it if you Google that tail nr.
s://www.teammini-max.com/online-store/aircraft-kits/1650r-eros/
@@TheReadBaron91 Legal Eagle cost less than 14K. The double eagle could probably be built for that.
if i need buy first plane i buy cheapen what found in usa and need be 4-6 seat plane. and less than 50 000$ have perfect. i looking many yotube video and see less than 30 000$ can buy amny many good plane. but i buy best condition and pay 40-50K max
I don't even need to watch.
You buy whatever you can afford.
For me, that's an rc plane from radio shack.
I'm looking at a sweet kite ...
IF IT AINT A BOEING... I AINT GOING!!!
There's a saying: if it floats or flies, lease it don't buy it.
When I heard that one it, the first part was waaaaay different.
If it flies, floats or fornicates, always rent it. It's cheaper in the long run.
-Felix Dennis
Can’t find a lease on used aircraft.
Can you lease an old Tri-pacer?