While it's true that Force of Will warps eternal formats, I'd also argue that it *un*-warps eternal formats, it's the reason that Legacy and Vintage aren't just "dump your entire hand into a turn 1 win" formats.
Force of Will is LITERALLY the card that keeps eternal formats from being completely full of turn 0 combo kill decks. It's REALLY risky building an entire turn 0 combo kill deck when your opponent has the potential to just stop your combo before you get going. The YuGiOh hand trap comparison is quite apt.
Good old counterspells. I will never forget the day I countered a large chain of spells with rewind, dismiss, twart, foil and daze. Slowed my board down but totally derailed my buddys plans. I then slowly built back up while swinging with stalking stones and faerie conclaves. Good times.
Erayo Ninja is one of the few decks viable in Standard outside of Ravager Affinity at one time and actually put up several Top 8 finishes. It was trivial to flip with the amount of 0-cost and affinity spells at that time and the Ornithopters synergized well with ninjas.
Top was also banned as a quality of life because it would add an additional 15+ mins to each game, EOT top, top again, upkeep top, top in response, top again because I forgot....etc it causes so many games going to time.
Yep, I've talked about that in other videos of course, but didn't think it should be the focus here. Part of the problem WAS that the top was good enough to see a ton of play because of Counterbalance/Miracles.
@@NizzahonMagicIt was good enough to see play regardless of those cards too. There wasn't much like that effect at the time - being able to control your draw. A lot of the "scrying" type of keywords didn't exist yet, and Brainstorm had rotated out long ago.
I mean, he pretty much confirmed it would be Number 1. If the only cards played above it at all are 3 of the Power 9, it's unlikely more winning decks play another card. Else more decks overall would run that card, but they don't. So there you have your list's easy #1!
@@JohnFromAccounting Afaik, Bazaar isn't really in the main meta anymore? It's only the 16th most-played nonbasic (at 17%). So sure, what you say is objectively true, but it's statistically not that relevant. It's not like all of the Force of Wills are played there and not in any other deck. Even if you take 17% off FoW's total, it'd still be one of the most played cards in the format. So what I say is true for 83% of Vintage, which does more heavy-pulling on the stats: The most-played cards are usually also the most-winningest cards.
I have to say, I prefer when the sidebar gives a more detailed breakdown of the points by format instead of just showing the first tier second tier total.
Yeah, and it was the sauce. I bought a box of Coldsnap hoping to get some, and managed to get 3 of them. After Top rotated, it was standard-legal with flashy Faerie Harbinger (with Momentary Blink) so I kept using it then.
Without the Turn 0 interaction that Force of Will provides, Legacy and Vintage would implode. Arguably Timeless needs it as well (at least for Bo1) but this is a case where I think I'd prefer a digital only card that is free as your first spell of the game if you aren't going first or something like that.
Have you ever consider doing a video about most played color and color combinations across or within a specific format? The fact that Force of Will is played in 50% or so of decks in vintage/legacy feels like it tells you something about the distribution of colors within certain formats.
I love Memory Lapse for the ability to always go 2 for 1. I counter your spell but ALSO blank your next draw as you now have to draw into the thing you just tried to use. If you've ever dropped a playset of Memory Lapses onto a spell you will know true power lol
Memory Lapse is a great example of a card that doesn't look all that great, but in practice is incredible. It basically removes the opponent's next draw in addition to countering, which in a decent number of situations ends up being almost a Time Walk. Yeah, they draw that card again but that also means it isn't in the graveyard, which can also be an upside
I've wanted a powerful sorcery counter for a while, it'd be such a fun card to use. Everybody was laughing at WOTC when they reprinted that madness counterspell incorrectly as a sorcery in some ugly secret lair, but it actually made the card so much more interesting.
I played Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top in standard. Then after Kamigawa rotated out, I got to use Faeries instead. Faerie Harbinger and Mistbind Clique together with Momentary Blink was not as good as Sensei's Divining Top, but I could still counter most everything AND flickering the Mistbind Clique on the opponent's upkeep is like taking an extra turn.
A fun interaction I’ve come across, the new Conspiracy Unraveler from Karlov LOVES pitching for counter spells. In my Sphinx tribal EDH, pitching a Sphinx to cast force of will basically guarantees 10 mana worth of stuff in the graveyard.
Would like to see your thoughts on what the difference is between a card warping a format and one becoming a new evergreen staple, and perhaps also what the healthy ways are to introduce and establish a brand new evergreen staple.
3:20 I always thought that the wizard in the original counterspell art was growing roots out of his fingers, I never considered it was a fizzled spell...
I remember way back in the day (around mirrodin era), my group was super casual, we played constructed but it was mostly made up of stuff we got in random boosters or at most based on what we found fingering through random binders at the LGS. None of us had much money so we were mostly stuck with penny rares at most. We had no concept of 'format" back then and everyone just played whatever cards they had. However, we had one guy who would show up to our games and his main deck had a 4x Force of Will 4x Tinker 4xDaze 4x Mana Drain. He would tinker out a Darksteel Collosus or a Plat Angel and just dominate us. He always acted like he was god's gift to Magic and almost never lost. (I'm also pretty sure he also cheated because he never didn't have that Tinker in his opening hand) To this day, FoW leaves a bad taste in my mouth just because of that experience.
Worth mentioning that Erayo also has a very nasty combo with Arcane Laboratory. Which, arguably makes it even worse in the 99 of decks that have access to white as they have a lot more copies of Arcane Laboratory's effect. Though, those decks do have Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant.
I'm pretty sure legacy and vintage would be literally unplayable if Force of Will was banned or restricted. FoW feels broken when the combo deck is storming off quickly and has force backup, but that usually requires some kind of godhand that will happen once in awhile. Otherwise, it's basically the only card stopping these turn 1 combo decks from steamrolling. And, Force is actually not that good against "fair" decks that want to grind out games, since you're still 2-for-1'ing yourself. It's somehow simultaneously a supremely broken but "fair" card, and is integral to keeping mtg's most powerful formats from becoming degenerate cesspools.
People understate the value of Force against fair decks, you are 2-for-1ing yourself but you're only doing that when it will help you, and against those decks paying the 5 happens a lot more often. Siding the card out in such matches is usually a mistake.
Mana Drain is not better than Daze. It may be banned, but it would see dramatically less play than Daze if it were unbanned. Paying mana to counter a spell is bad, even if there are upsides.
This is a stacked list so it might be hard for this card to get on, but I feel like fierce guardianship should have made the list. If erayo can make it because of commander, and deservedly so, the guardianship can too
Mana Drain should be #1. It would have way more top finishes if it wasn't banned in pretty much every format. Its way more powerful overall than force of will. It being banned in legacy while FoW isn't tells use everything.
One big thing that makes Erayo so busted is that if you play it alongside Rule of Law or Narset Parter of Veils, then you completely lock your opponents out of the game.
I think Wizards should (re)print better counterspells this days. Its sooooo stupid creatures get stronger but Disruption gets weaker at the same time. The idea is that the players should think they are doing incredeble powerful things and no one can stop them, but without worth to play Disruption the game is just boring. Thats the reason everybody who admits magic has powercreep is totally wrong. Creatures get stronger, but if we had powercreep we would already got counterspells better than FoW, discard better than Hymn to tourach, land destruction better than sinkhole and also tutors better than demonic tutor.
It feels like a "too little, too late" kind of thing to me, and if it's rushed out early, it can lead to losing accidentally due to removal of mana rocks or dorks. Seems too risky to be good when the rest of these cards exist.
Memory Lapse strangles a deck if you put it on Isochron Scepter. It might not be a truly competitive combo, but damn does it kill an opponent's will to play.
I think the 1U counters should be more highlighted than "Counterspell", but that's just my opinion, ha. Especially ones like Remand (draws a card), Unsubstantiate (returns spell instead), Arcane Denial (draws cards), Delay and Ertai's Meddling (suspends spell), or Rune Snag (counter unless X more is paid.) Then there's stuff like Dovin's Veto, that's uncounterable itself, or stuff like Drown in the Loch that is modal. Counterspell just isn't "good" by any stretch of the imagination - it's just old.
Oh, so Force of Will and the 9 others? Hell, since this one is so easy, I will also try and guess top 2, Force of Will is obviously 1, so 2 is...Mana Drain? Edit: I was close.
As someone that only plays commander, wash away is the most broken BS in the world, you literaly have to change your way of playing the game for just 1 island. They should rework counterspells as not adding to the commander tax.
I'll always stand behind the idea that "counter target spell" is inherently an unbalanced concept and should have either never been added to the game or never been printed on a card under 3 mana, let alone for free. Every colour other than blue generally has weak points, types of permanents where its really hard for them to interact it. Like how red generally can't mess with enchantments, black generally cant mess with artifacts and so on. But blue and it's counterspells can not only answer ANY permanent but it can even stop instant and sorceries, something no other colour can do. As mentioned in the video, the entire format of vintage is often based around 1 single card, "Force Of Will" a counterspell. Mental Mistep had to be banned because games came down to who had more of them. Cheap counterspells were rightfully banned in historic cause they warp the format. When playing commander, I almost always find that the only players I have to worry about is any player with access to blue. It doesnt what their commander is, just having access to counterspells makes them the biggest threat since they can quite literally stop anything, for free. There's just such a HUGE disparity in power between blue and the other colours in so many formats. I think Wizards just kinda made a mistake with blue from the start and its just kinda the cancer that we have to deal with cause it's too late now to change it and without counterspells, blue doesn't really have much else. I'd still love to see a format where we just banned any card with blue in its colour identity so we could have 4 balanced colours rather than 4 balanced colours and 1 colour that's leaps and bounds ahead of them all and just dominates everything. And lol just to preemptively respond to the "But its a 1 for 1!" and "But they're a necessary evil!" people. No....just being a "1 for 1" doesn't make something balanced. Would a instant that cost BB and read "Destroy target non-land permanent" be balanced? I mean, its a 1 for 1, right? And they're NOT a "necessary evil". It's okay if someone other than the blue player wins sometimes, its okay if stuff happens and there's not one player that can answer ANYTHING. There's other ways other colours can interact with and stop combos and if combos do go off and there's no one to counter it...so be it, its called playing magic. The game isn't gonna fall apart and degenerate into madness because counterspells dont exist.
Someone's butthurt about counterspells... The reason they are OK is that they only do anything if you have them in your hand when a spell is cast. If you draw them too late they won't do anything, in contrast to any typical removal spell. Plus, there are many, many spells that are uncounterable or cards that make spells uncounterable.
@@josemiguelgomesteixeira9274Someone is either new to magic or just doesn't quite understand how to evaluate cards, which is fine, we all have to learn eventually. In regards to the "They only work if you have them in hand when the threat is cast" misunderstanding. This in itself doesn't really make them any less OP. If this was such an issue, why aren't vintage players cutting their FoWs for Vindicate? Vindicate can remove a threat even if you draw it late, right? Why are Counterspell and even Memory Lapse banned in historic but not more typical removal spells? Is this because Wizards is "butthurt about counterspells"? Black Lotus and Moxen, honestly aren't that powerful late game, they're only really OP if you draw them early AND have something strong to ramp into. Should we just unrestrict them in vintage? There's lots of ways to remove artifacts and hell....you could always just Force Of Will whatever someone ramps into if they do draw them early not to mention that, "If you draw them too late they wont do anything". There's actually not THAT many uncounterable cards, even fewer that are actually heavily played. And aside from Cavern Of Souls or Delighted Halfling not many that relevant cards that make cards uncounterable. I hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding you might have previously had. As I said, we all have to start somewhere.
Counterspells are perfectly fine. Red has counterspells and redirect spells that can counteract instants and sorceries and white has stax that hinders noncreature strats. Without counterspells, especially cheaper ones and free ones, we WOULD see the game run rampant with unfun combo strategies. Leaving everything else that is essentially free or easy to ramp up to unchecked is a recipe for a game that is just whoever goes first wins in Legacy and Vintage and makes a lot of broken strategies in Modern far easier to achieve. In terms of commander, the player you should always be most worried about is whoever has the most advantage. Commander is typically going to have multicolored decks and there are several ways to get advantage among several different colors. Assuming someone has a counterspell just because they're in blue in a singleton format is just bad gameplay. Always play to be the one in the advantageous position. If someone has a counterspell, they're likely to use it to stop something the other colors they are using can't deal with or something that needs to be dealt with before it even enters the battlefield. Not to mention, if we banned counterspells in all formats, people who complain about blue being the strongest color are likely to just move on to the next color because believe me, every color is ranked against each other because of the advantages and disadvantages each have. And currently, Blue is not even leaps and bounds ahead of the other colors anymore. Overall, it's not a question of why are counterspells in the game, it's a question of how do we adapt to what someone has in their hand? How do we win through adversity (and this applies to beating any color [besides maybe red 😅])? If you take away a full color because you don't like the strategic gameplay that surrounds it, you're not gonna like the other colors once they become what you probably won't like playing against.
While it's true that Force of Will warps eternal formats, I'd also argue that it *un*-warps eternal formats, it's the reason that Legacy and Vintage aren't just "dump your entire hand into a turn 1 win" formats.
I’ve heard it and Yugioh’s hand-trap cards compared to each other.
In other words, it warps eternal formats the opposite direction that most format warping cards do.
Force of Will is LITERALLY the card that keeps eternal formats from being completely full of turn 0 combo kill decks.
It's REALLY risky building an entire turn 0 combo kill deck when your opponent has the potential to just stop your combo before you get going.
The YuGiOh hand trap comparison is quite apt.
wow this is a perfect take
My brother in Christ that’s exactly how they warp formats
unmentioned upside to Force of Will: many people are so used to pitch casting it, that when you hard cast it, you get extra dopamine
It's garbo for the cost tho
@@juter11225 mana is a small price to pay for the priceless all encompassing euphoria of bamboozling your opponent with a hard cast Force of Will.
You can always pitch it to Brainstorm ;)
2:28 First appears in..... Homelands. The GOAT set strikes again.
Homelands also gave us Merchant Scroll and Didgeridoo. Terrible set except when it's great.
@@JohnFromAccounting Same can be said for Legends, and really most of the early sets.
Was designed as part of Mirage, but got moved into Homelands.
When they printed the Apocalypse Chime, they knew what they were doing.
(Yeah, I know, it doesn't affect the one card on this list.)
Force of Negation was MH1, not 2. MH2 did get the OG Counterspell printed into the format, however, so they both got a notable counter.
Good old counterspells. I will never forget the day I countered a large chain of spells with rewind, dismiss, twart, foil and daze. Slowed my board down but totally derailed my buddys plans. I then slowly built back up while swinging with stalking stones and faerie conclaves. Good times.
Erayo Ninja is one of the few decks viable in Standard outside of Ravager Affinity at one time and actually put up several Top 8 finishes. It was trivial to flip with the amount of 0-cost and affinity spells at that time and the Ornithopters synergized well with ninjas.
Top was also banned as a quality of life because it would add an additional 15+ mins to each game, EOT top, top again, upkeep top, top in response, top again because I forgot....etc it causes so many games going to time.
Yep, I've talked about that in other videos of course, but didn't think it should be the focus here.
Part of the problem WAS that the top was good enough to see a ton of play because of Counterbalance/Miracles.
@@NizzahonMagicIt was good enough to see play regardless of those cards too. There wasn't much like that effect at the time - being able to control your draw. A lot of the "scrying" type of keywords didn't exist yet, and Brainstorm had rotated out long ago.
Is literally anyone surprised about #1? I'm actually very confident it would make it onto "Top 10 Vintage Cards (Minus Power 9)"!
You really want that video, huh? Hope it gets made someday lol
@@xunxekri One day!!!!
I mean, he pretty much confirmed it would be Number 1. If the only cards played above it at all are 3 of the Power 9, it's unlikely more winning decks play another card. Else more decks overall would run that card, but they don't. So there you have your list's easy #1!
All I'm saying is that Bazaar decks run Force of Will but not Time Walk.
@@JohnFromAccounting Afaik, Bazaar isn't really in the main meta anymore? It's only the 16th most-played nonbasic (at 17%). So sure, what you say is objectively true, but it's statistically not that relevant. It's not like all of the Force of Wills are played there and not in any other deck. Even if you take 17% off FoW's total, it'd still be one of the most played cards in the format. So what I say is true for 83% of Vintage, which does more heavy-pulling on the stats: The most-played cards are usually also the most-winningest cards.
I have to say, I prefer when the sidebar gives a more detailed breakdown of the points by format instead of just showing the first tier second tier total.
I think this more condensed format is used for these “op” videos because the points don’t matter as much
#10 - Reminder: for a brief moment, it was _Standard-legal_ with Top.
Yeah, and it was the sauce. I bought a box of Coldsnap hoping to get some, and managed to get 3 of them. After Top rotated, it was standard-legal with flashy Faerie Harbinger (with Momentary Blink) so I kept using it then.
Without the Turn 0 interaction that Force of Will provides, Legacy and Vintage would implode. Arguably Timeless needs it as well (at least for Bo1) but this is a case where I think I'd prefer a digital only card that is free as your first spell of the game if you aren't going first or something like that.
Yep, the format is warped around it in a good way.
I would say the most "broken" counterspell is still missstep, just because it's playpattern are so much more toxic the force.
Yeah misstep is very obviously more broken.
Playable in every deck and doesn’t require you to go down in card advantage
Have you ever consider doing a video about most played color and color combinations across or within a specific format? The fact that Force of Will is played in 50% or so of decks in vintage/legacy feels like it tells you something about the distribution of colors within certain formats.
I'm dumb and tired. On Memory lapse, I read the 31 points for Second Tier as "31-Second Tier Top 8s". I was like, what the hell is a 31-second Tier.
Oh.
You could say you had a memory lapse.
With a very loose definition of the term.
I'll see myself out.
I cant even
Speed Magic, obvs.
@@8bitKatwalkyour opponent must have a Void Winnower in play.
I love Memory Lapse for the ability to always go 2 for 1. I counter your spell but ALSO blank your next draw as you now have to draw into the thing you just tried to use. If you've ever dropped a playset of Memory Lapses onto a spell you will know true power lol
When blue gets so overpowered that blue starts trying to out blue.
TN cackling from exile as her GOATED art will forever dominate top 10 counter lists.
Memory Lapse is a great example of a card that doesn't look all that great, but in practice is incredible. It basically removes the opponent's next draw in addition to countering, which in a decent number of situations ends up being almost a Time Walk. Yeah, they draw that card again but that also means it isn't in the graveyard, which can also be an upside
I combined it with mill effects as a pseudo-removal spell. Anything that gets put back on top generally gets milled away.
90% of the time your opponent’s best draw is the card you just countered. No idea why it’s on this list.
Without watching it yet, I guessed this could also be called "Top 9 counterspells not named 'Force of Will"."
OK, here is an idea... A counterspell that cost 0 but is a sorcery, so you can only use it if you figure out how to give it flash 😅
It should also return to your hand and/or draw you a card if it successfully counters its target.
I've wanted a powerful sorcery counter for a while, it'd be such a fun card to use. Everybody was laughing at WOTC when they reprinted that madness counterspell incorrectly as a sorcery in some ugly secret lair, but it actually made the card so much more interesting.
Weren’t there sorcery counters in the Portal sets? (They only included 3 card types: land, creature and sorcery.)
I played Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top in standard. Then after Kamigawa rotated out, I got to use Faeries instead. Faerie Harbinger and Mistbind Clique together with Momentary Blink was not as good as Sensei's Divining Top, but I could still counter most everything AND flickering the Mistbind Clique on the opponent's upkeep is like taking an extra turn.
A fun interaction I’ve come across, the new Conspiracy Unraveler from Karlov LOVES pitching for counter spells. In my Sphinx tribal EDH, pitching a Sphinx to cast force of will basically guarantees 10 mana worth of stuff in the graveyard.
Force of Will exiles the card from your hand...
I like non blue counterspells a lot myself.
the memory lapse ban in historic is a case study of how whiny and spoiled magic players usually are
Once again Storm Crow shows its worth as the most overpowered Magic card ever printed
I believe that if it weren't for its high price tag, Force of Will would be the most played card in commander.
So... just proxy it?
Would like to see your thoughts on what the difference is between a card warping a format and one becoming a new evergreen staple, and perhaps also what the healthy ways are to introduce and establish a brand new evergreen staple.
3:20 I always thought that the wizard in the original counterspell art was growing roots out of his fingers, I never considered it was a fizzled spell...
I remember way back in the day (around mirrodin era), my group was super casual, we played constructed but it was mostly made up of stuff we got in random boosters or at most based on what we found fingering through random binders at the LGS. None of us had much money so we were mostly stuck with penny rares at most. We had no concept of 'format" back then and everyone just played whatever cards they had.
However, we had one guy who would show up to our games and his main deck had a 4x Force of Will 4x Tinker 4xDaze 4x Mana Drain. He would tinker out a Darksteel Collosus or a Plat Angel and just dominate us. He always acted like he was god's gift to Magic and almost never lost. (I'm also pretty sure he also cheated because he never didn't have that Tinker in his opening hand)
To this day, FoW leaves a bad taste in my mouth just because of that experience.
The original counterspell artwork just seems to say "magical disfunction"
Or, as we used to call it way back when, Carrot Fingers.
Worth mentioning that Erayo also has a very nasty combo with Arcane Laboratory. Which, arguably makes it even worse in the 99 of decks that have access to white as they have a lot more copies of Arcane Laboratory's effect. Though, those decks do have Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant.
I'm pretty sure legacy and vintage would be literally unplayable if Force of Will was banned or restricted.
FoW feels broken when the combo deck is storming off quickly and has force backup, but that usually requires some kind of godhand that will happen once in awhile. Otherwise, it's basically the only card stopping these turn 1 combo decks from steamrolling. And, Force is actually not that good against "fair" decks that want to grind out games, since you're still 2-for-1'ing yourself.
It's somehow simultaneously a supremely broken but "fair" card, and is integral to keeping mtg's most powerful formats from becoming degenerate cesspools.
People understate the value of Force against fair decks, you are 2-for-1ing yourself but you're only doing that when it will help you, and against those decks paying the 5 happens a lot more often. Siding the card out in such matches is usually a mistake.
What place was red elemental blast?
Was not expecting to see a Homelands card on this list.
I think that Rewind and Unwind should be honorable mentions.
Don't know if daze should be that high and fluster storm should be on there somewhere
I came here for #2-10. We ALL KNOW before starting what #1 should be.
The fact that you can play force of will before your first turn is insane.
Not only insane, but necessary if you don't want to lose before your first turn.
“Counterspell is the fifth most played card in commander”
Presumably only beaten by basic island, basic plains, basic swamp and basic forest
Anyone else suprised to not see cryptic command?
Surprised cryptic command didn't make the list
It's 4 mana, too expensive for most formats but commander.
It was good in Modern for many, many years...
Mana Drain is not better than Daze. It may be banned, but it would see dramatically less play than Daze if it were unbanned. Paying mana to counter a spell is bad, even if there are upsides.
Hello guys,I'm confuse about this particular card called "abjure" my question is,can you sacrifice an island to activate it?
babe wake up, new top10 just dropped
@nizzahonmagic was there a reason that you got rid of total points from your videos?
I only do it in this particular type of video -- the "Most OP" ones specifically throw point totals out the window, as explained in the intro.
@@NizzahonMagic ah, sorry, I try to watch as many of your top 10s as I can, so I'm in the bad habit of skipping the intro.
This is a stacked list so it might be hard for this card to get on, but I feel like fierce guardianship should have made the list. If erayo can make it because of commander, and deservedly so, the guardianship can too
Oh wow first time I catch a new video right when it’s uploaded
Mana Drain should be #1. It would have way more top finishes if it wasn't banned in pretty much every format. Its way more powerful overall than force of will. It being banned in legacy while FoW isn't tells use everything.
I'm surprised that stern warning isn't on this list
Counterspells, my favourite MtG card type.
Which I'm not sure what says about me...
Wondering if counterspell makes the list.
One big thing that makes Erayo so busted is that if you play it alongside Rule of Law or Narset Parter of Veils, then you completely lock your opponents out of the game.
Why not pact of negation?
Really only good in combo decks that have no intention of paying for it.
I'm surprised that pact of negation isn't in this list.
The top should be the top card of all top card lists.
I think Wizards should (re)print better counterspells this days. Its sooooo stupid creatures get stronger but Disruption gets weaker at the same time. The idea is that the players should think they are doing incredeble powerful things and no one can stop them, but without worth to play Disruption the game is just boring. Thats the reason everybody who admits magic has powercreep is totally wrong. Creatures get stronger, but if we had powercreep we would already got counterspells better than FoW, discard better than Hymn to tourach, land destruction better than sinkhole and also tutors better than demonic tutor.
Non rotating formats cannot exist without FoW.
Well, Modern and Pioneer do.
But yes, Legacy and Vintage need it.
Pact of Negation not even worth a mention? That did surprise me a bit
surprised not to see pact of negation
It feels like a "too little, too late" kind of thing to me, and if it's rushed out early, it can lead to losing accidentally due to removal of mana rocks or dorks. Seems too risky to be good when the rest of these cards exist.
Memory Lapse strangles a deck if you put it on Isochron Scepter. It might not be a truly competitive combo, but damn does it kill an opponent's will to play.
Force of Negation is from MH1
Ah, free counterspells. The worst feeling in the world! (when you're on the receiving end, that is)
If you play counterspells then expect to be punched in the face XD
Surprised by some of the cards left off the list here but I can't necessarily disagree with the ones that are there instead
I think the 1U counters should be more highlighted than "Counterspell", but that's just my opinion, ha. Especially ones like Remand (draws a card), Unsubstantiate (returns spell instead), Arcane Denial (draws cards), Delay and Ertai's Meddling (suspends spell), or Rune Snag (counter unless X more is paid.) Then there's stuff like Dovin's Veto, that's uncounterable itself, or stuff like Drown in the Loch that is modal. Counterspell just isn't "good" by any stretch of the imagination - it's just old.
@@SauvenilYeah, like, there are turns where memory lapse is literally time walk.
Honorable mention: mind break trap?
Oh, so Force of Will and the 9 others? Hell, since this one is so easy, I will also try and guess top 2, Force of Will is obviously 1, so 2 is...Mana Drain?
Edit:
I was close.
Mental Misstep, probably
This is one of the few lists where I guessed most of them. XD
@@melenynder7136 You right
Wait, is Erayo #6 without any top finishes just because its banned in Commander?
Chalice for zero. Nice Black Lotus. Nice Moxen.
Force of Will is like Snorlax in Gen 2. Yes, it's broken, but what it does for the game overall isn't
Imo mana drain is #1. That card is just ridiculous.
Where’s fierce guardianship?
Huh, no Fierce Guardianship
of course not. it's a commander only card.
@@ClubbingSealCubbut its best conterspell in commander
@@markfreenick no, fow is still better
@@ClubbingSealCub if you're commander got cmc 1-3 (especially if its partners and both are cheap) no, its most of the time fow without losing 1 card.
@@markfreenick fierce guardianship is non creature. fow is anything. It doesn't counter stuff like dockside
Historic brawl gut renamed to brawl and brawl is standard brawl
Kinda surprised fierce guardianship wasnt mentioned. Probably the 2nd or 3rd best counterspell in commander (behind force of will and/or negation)
HTF so you not have Arcane Denial on this list.
Can't take you seriously
Sure, it was a great card in Extended back in the day, but I don't think there's anything on this list that it's more broken than.
@@NizzahonMagic Splashable and draws. In EDH it's a house.
As someone that only plays commander, wash away is the most broken BS in the world, you literaly have to change your way of playing the game for just 1 island. They should rework counterspells as not adding to the commander tax.
Lapse is better than counterspell to me.
First 5 minutes yes
I'll always stand behind the idea that "counter target spell" is inherently an unbalanced concept and should have either never been added to the game or never been printed on a card under 3 mana, let alone for free. Every colour other than blue generally has weak points, types of permanents where its really hard for them to interact it. Like how red generally can't mess with enchantments, black generally cant mess with artifacts and so on. But blue and it's counterspells can not only answer ANY permanent but it can even stop instant and sorceries, something no other colour can do. As mentioned in the video, the entire format of vintage is often based around 1 single card, "Force Of Will" a counterspell. Mental Mistep had to be banned because games came down to who had more of them. Cheap counterspells were rightfully banned in historic cause they warp the format. When playing commander, I almost always find that the only players I have to worry about is any player with access to blue. It doesnt what their commander is, just having access to counterspells makes them the biggest threat since they can quite literally stop anything, for free. There's just such a HUGE disparity in power between blue and the other colours in so many formats. I think Wizards just kinda made a mistake with blue from the start and its just kinda the cancer that we have to deal with cause it's too late now to change it and without counterspells, blue doesn't really have much else. I'd still love to see a format where we just banned any card with blue in its colour identity so we could have 4 balanced colours rather than 4 balanced colours and 1 colour that's leaps and bounds ahead of them all and just dominates everything. And lol just to preemptively respond to the "But its a 1 for 1!" and "But they're a necessary evil!" people. No....just being a "1 for 1" doesn't make something balanced. Would a instant that cost BB and read "Destroy target non-land permanent" be balanced? I mean, its a 1 for 1, right? And they're NOT a "necessary evil". It's okay if someone other than the blue player wins sometimes, its okay if stuff happens and there's not one player that can answer ANYTHING. There's other ways other colours can interact with and stop combos and if combos do go off and there's no one to counter it...so be it, its called playing magic. The game isn't gonna fall apart and degenerate into madness because counterspells dont exist.
Someone's butthurt about counterspells... The reason they are OK is that they only do anything if you have them in your hand when a spell is cast. If you draw them too late they won't do anything, in contrast to any typical removal spell. Plus, there are many, many spells that are uncounterable or cards that make spells uncounterable.
@@josemiguelgomesteixeira9274Someone is either new to magic or just doesn't quite understand how to evaluate cards, which is fine, we all have to learn eventually. In regards to the "They only work if you have them in hand when the threat is cast" misunderstanding. This in itself doesn't really make them any less OP. If this was such an issue, why aren't vintage players cutting their FoWs for Vindicate? Vindicate can remove a threat even if you draw it late, right? Why are Counterspell and even Memory Lapse banned in historic but not more typical removal spells? Is this because Wizards is "butthurt about counterspells"? Black Lotus and Moxen, honestly aren't that powerful late game, they're only really OP if you draw them early AND have something strong to ramp into. Should we just unrestrict them in vintage? There's lots of ways to remove artifacts and hell....you could always just Force Of Will whatever someone ramps into if they do draw them early not to mention that, "If you draw them too late they wont do anything". There's actually not THAT many uncounterable cards, even fewer that are actually heavily played. And aside from Cavern Of Souls or Delighted Halfling not many that relevant cards that make cards uncounterable. I hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding you might have previously had. As I said, we all have to start somewhere.
But once a permanent is on the board there’s usually very little that blue can do.
@@Max-nt5zsCyclonic Rift, Control Spells, Witness Protection, Imprisoned In The Moon, lots of bounce spells.
Counterspells are perfectly fine. Red has counterspells and redirect spells that can counteract instants and sorceries and white has stax that hinders noncreature strats. Without counterspells, especially cheaper ones and free ones, we WOULD see the game run rampant with unfun combo strategies. Leaving everything else that is essentially free or easy to ramp up to unchecked is a recipe for a game that is just whoever goes first wins in Legacy and Vintage and makes a lot of broken strategies in Modern far easier to achieve. In terms of commander, the player you should always be most worried about is whoever has the most advantage. Commander is typically going to have multicolored decks and there are several ways to get advantage among several different colors. Assuming someone has a counterspell just because they're in blue in a singleton format is just bad gameplay. Always play to be the one in the advantageous position. If someone has a counterspell, they're likely to use it to stop something the other colors they are using can't deal with or something that needs to be dealt with before it even enters the battlefield. Not to mention, if we banned counterspells in all formats, people who complain about blue being the strongest color are likely to just move on to the next color because believe me, every color is ranked against each other because of the advantages and disadvantages each have. And currently, Blue is not even leaps and bounds ahead of the other colors anymore. Overall, it's not a question of why are counterspells in the game, it's a question of how do we adapt to what someone has in their hand? How do we win through adversity (and this applies to beating any color [besides maybe red 😅])? If you take away a full color because you don't like the strategic gameplay that surrounds it, you're not gonna like the other colors once they become what you probably won't like playing against.