Thanks for watching guys! I’m keen to hear your input on the project! I appreciate our sponsor for making it possible to try and restore this thing! Go to TryFum.com/ALECSTEELE and use code ALECSTEELE to get a discount off your order today.
@@SAOS451316 Except it isn't anything like a vape. Its just pulling air over a polyester sponge impregnated with essential oils. Its no different from what goes into your lungs when you're peeling an orange.
Kurtis of the Cutting Edge Engineering channel is often repairing damaged hydraulic cylinders. Sometimes he can lathe down the cylinder and add a sleeve to it or the casing, other times he gets a brand new cylinder and almost machines a new one from scratch, salvaging the bits he can from the now "donor" part. I would recommend seeing his process for a few options.
100% need to watch a few hours of Kurtis at work if Alec wants to DIY this. He really should just replace it with a new cylinder and machine the mating parts.
I like that channel, too. The problem in this particular case is that the barrel is actually a 100 year old cast iron casting, not a piece of tube steel. He cannot replace the barrel. And if there was a screw bouncing around in there to the point that it damaged the top of the piston, the walls of the barrel will probably be in a similar condition.
Since you have to replace those bronze bushings anyway, You can keep the original piston rod, reduce the diameter until the pitting is gone, then bore out the new bushings to that new piston rod diameter.
The piston rod can be turned down to remove all the Rost and pits. Then up to 1mm in diameter can be coated with High Velocity Oxygen Fuel (HVOF) spraying and a powdered carbide material for superior corrosion and wear protection. WC-CoCr, Amperit 558.074 would be my preferred material choice. There are several coating shops in UK who can support here😊
It is much cheaper to make a new one. These rods are known for breaking, and you end up with a very expensive rod that is also thinner at core. And because the piston is quite damaged by a bolt that was in the cylinder, there is a chance that the piston has play on the shaft or is no longer even seated straight. All in all, I would go for the old-fashioned way, also because it fits better with the history of this machine.
Come on man! I also have a desk job - and it is also quite hard - because when something isn't right you have to go and tell what is going on :D I mean... desk job isn't just sitting! But mega-respect for people in production! Although they arent always kind :D
Alex, Been a fitter turner fabricator for over 50 yrs so I have a few clues. Even finished ground on a large Churchill cylindrical grinder 2 piston rod assemblies for a Beche + Grohs counter blow hammer that had dies each weighing 14 tons yes she was a big bastard. The piston heads were 24 inch dia. Keeping in mind that this hammer of yours is a century old ish so before you rush into anything I would check out a few things first. I would start with the cylinder bore. Now due to its age there will be wear, out of roundness and taper. This cylinder would benefit from a hone or a re-bore. Next I would replace the piston, rod ( one unit ) and rings and of coarse the bronze bushes. The piston and rod machined from a solid billet. Mild steel would be fine but if you want to be on the safe side a medium tensile steel 4140 or similar. Check with steel supplier or Massey Hammers for their recommendation. Wouldnt mess around with chrome plating. the old rod. Piston will be worn too. Most think its the same chrome that is used on cars etc when in fact it needs to be hard chrome which will need to be ground afterwards. H/chrome is expensive, well here in NZ it is. After turning from a solid billet I would definitely get it ground. Another thing to check out before doing anything is in what condition the bore is in the tup as the rod needs to be a good fit, ( you now know all about that). That bore might just need machining too which will obviously affect the dia of the piston rod. There is quite a difference between your rod assembly and a hydraulic rod one. The cycle times are many times more along with very violent forces not found in a h/cylinder. So this will all need some careful research, measurement, costing and availability of the materials Depending on your budget there might have to be a compromise but Im sure you will be able to get "mates rates" on materials and machining. Even then it will not be cheap but it will be a "good job" well done. Peter.
Would stainless or a stainless alloy be a better option for the ram instead of chroming it? And Alec, you've got some great creators in the TH-cam community that know what they're talking about. I'd send a message to Titans of CNC and see if they'd be willing to help you out on some of the parts, or maybe they'd have some ideas.
You should talk to @CuttingEdgeEngineering and see what he would do. He works with tons of big huge hydraulic machines. I feel like Air or Steam is close enough lol.
In case you don't want to end up with a reduced piston shaft diameter, you could try reaching out to someone who does spray welding. It works by spraying molten metal onto the part while it's rotating, increasing the diameter. So you would take material off until the rust and pitting are gone, then spray weld until it has a slightly larger diameter than originally, then machine it back down to the original diameter. I don't know if this process makes sense economically in your situation, but it could be worth it to show it just because of how cool it is. There are some welders here on TH-cam who can do it, so maybe you could do a collab.
I'm sure others have suggested this already. But the two bronze parts get oakum stuffing cord between them which is tightened in place to form a steam seal. I'm sure you're on the right track with the floating upper piston too. That's a buffer which stopped buffing due to the damage and what I suspect is a one way valve that got peened out of shape and stuck in place. Hence the problems getting it to fit. The piston is likely been distorted as well so perhaps the hole is not a good fit or even totally round any longer. As for the shaft it could be built up with spray welding and ground back. But it might be easier and less risk of distortion if you can find the right size to replace the whole thing with a piece of cylinder rod shafting. Kurtis at Custom Edge Engineering being someone that has discussed this choice and why in a few of his heavy cylinder rebuild videos. Abom has also brought up this issue of spray welding and distortion. Of course it's also a 100+ year steam hammer. So sandblasting, spray welding and grinding back might be entirely fine. Likely would be.
As a crane operator I have helped resurface a cylinder piston. Lathe clean it, thousands of an inch and chrome it. Pistons are chrome because they can handle the weather and in your case steam.
Doesn't that tell you something about how effective TH-cam partnership ads are? He doesn't even need to mention the shaped-space people and you're already building your online presence!
Regarding the rusted piston shaft, we had such uggly damage on our steam locomotive and had it chromed. Such packing are always a little leaking on a steam locomotive because of the surface rust but now, because of the chrome surface, this just seal perfectly!
0:48 That "Yee!!" upon success tells me that you may have left the rural United States, but it did not leave you. Much love from a mechanic in Michigan
For your bronze cracks, anneal the pieces first, then braze a little bronze wire into the cracks, then re-anneal the fixed pieces to make sure the cracks are fully filled, repeat that process until the post-treatment annealing stops re-opening the cracks
He'll likely need to re-make both anyway, because if the shaft is severely pitted, he'll have to machine it down more than they can add back via chrome plating, and thus needs to re-machine the bronze to a smaller ID.
Both these seem like great suggestions be wary of tig welding bronze as not all of it can be welded safely. Try striking a pool on a non spec surface first if you try to tig it.
Hi Alec, I would grind the piston rod and then chrome it. I think this would be the best solution for the repair, maybe even a little better than the original construction. Have a good day!
I have been a huge fan of this channel for years, but these past couple of videos have really made me very excited for what is to come. I rarely, if ever make comments on videos, but I really just wanted to voice how excited I am for the future of this channel. C:
Where the piston screws onto the rod there would have been grub screws drilled into the thread to stop the piston coming off, they've came out and caused the damage on the back side of the piston that looks like threads, so awesome watching you bring this hammer back to life!
start with an evapo-rust bath for 2 days to remove the rust then spray weld to fill in the voids (adam booth did a video a couple of years ago on spray welding) then lathe back to size
Me and my 5 year old son love watching and learning new things from your videos. We both yelled with you whenever things started moving or finally came out. Thank you!
Those other channels that do "restoration" get the process done in 20 minutes. Alec takes 10 minutes to remove a single part. I suspect that Alex's struggle is more real.
On that piston rod, you'll have trouble getting the finish made properly in your lathe. The tooling will leave little grooves in the rod that will eat your bronze bearings like a file. The easiest way for you to get it fixed would be to clean it up with hydrochloric acid to remove the rust (don't put oil on it), and send it out to get ground and chrome plated. Any hydraulic cylinder making/repair place should be able to do that. Or if you want to use your lathe, get a tool post grinder. Redo your bronze bushings, both of them. You don't want a piece breaking off and floating around like that random screw was. As for your trouble removing things, you need a hammer that has the power of Thor. So, get one of those Astro Pneumatic Thor air hammers.
Past hydraulic tech here, if you can get a new seal to take up the difference, you can turn the shaft of the cylinger ~.2-.3mm without compromising the strength of the shaft too badly. When you start rebuilding, i would highly recommend looking into using a graphite seal for your center ram ring.
We do Babbitt metal work on hydraulic cylinder rods at work, at least the ones where making a new one from new stock isn't economical. Grind her down to clean metal, heat it up and flow Babbitt metal onto the rod on the lathe (like spray brazing), turn the Babbitt metal coating down to dimension on the lathe and polish.
Alex, yes the upper piston is a safety cushion, if the piston rod breaks, or the ram comes loose the steam or air will send the piston out the top and come back down on you. I have a 300 lb Chambersburg Utility hammer with a similar upper piston
For hydraulics they sell chrome plated shaft. It is ground and polished before chrome plating so it provides a great surface for sealing. Turning the shaft you have down in a lathe will never be able to match the surface finish or precision of a ground shaft. The chrome plating will give it a much longer life and you can get it case hardened to give you an even longer life. The case Harding is not so hard you cannot machine it but carbide tooling should be used. In the end buying a new shaft would be the best and easiest way to go and what we would do in hydraulic repair
Hi Alec, Laser Cladding is an option. Have utilised this process a few times for corroded shafts. They usually use Nickel in this process, which will improve the longevity of the repair. Hope this helps.
I'd probably consider truing up the cylinder bore (good chance it's out of round and rather barrel shaped), then putting a bronze overlay (brazing) onto the piston to bring it back to a good fit. Turn the piston rod, then make new glands or stick with tradition and resleeve them (much cheaper). As I see it, as long as the original heavy bits aren't cracked, why not keep using them... Love what you are doing, keep up the amazing work!
I work on aerospace valves, some have pistons just like that. When the valves come back from the service, we grind off the unserviceable surfaces, chrome plate it, and grind it back to print specifications. It often is better than new when we are done with it.
For the ram shaft you might be able to get a bit of hard chromed bar such as is used in hydraulic machinery. It's wear really well and solve your sealing issues.
The top piston is an accumulator piston, helps to smooth out the cycling of the hammer, likely to make it easier to use and thus more accurate when forging.
I love the optimism of asking the internet a question Alec. I know you'll get one or two genuine responses from people that know, but I would not want to wade through the many comments from "experts" online.
Since you're going to have to remake lots of bits anyway... Might I recommend you turn the dyes 45 or at least create a new dove tail top and bottom at 45 for ease of removal Also I'd turn that piston down and then drop it itu a chrome sleeve
the absolute maniacal laughter just makes you realize how difficult it was to get that out. I know the laughter that comes along with finally accomplishing something that was that hard for you to achieve.
You need to do some lathework to the component in this video, then you should thermal spray the wear surfaces with a harder material, and do some more lathework to get it back to tolerances. Get in touch with a company that can help you with the thermal spraying, and take it from there. It is not a very costly operation. Thanks for sharing yet another great video!! Best regards from Roy in Norway!
Obviously a little late, but i had pretty good result rust removing with electrolysis, obviously it wont remove any pitting, but it will remove less material than grinding it away. I dont know if the size of the object matters as i mostly done nuts, bolts and blades, but it might be worth a shot. Anyway, i really enjoy watching old "rare" tools and machines come to new life, keep it coming 😁
Love this content, I would turn the ram and then chrome it. then have new bronze parts made to fit. The rest (so far) looks like you can refurbish and re-use. Keep up the good work.
17:37 I think that the inner part will get pushed out of the way when pressureized and when the ramm pushes on the donut it close the hole and work as damper.
Turn the piston down on the lathe, then sleeve the cylinder if necessary. Paint everything with rust resistant paint. Make it look like a giant steam monster or something...keep it up...enjoying this.
This episode definitely brought out some serious levels of excitement and rejoicing. Also, watching you battle all of these keys and things that don't want to move reminds me of hand tool rescues' power hammer restoration. That was quite the stuck thing. Really excited for the next episode!
You could also get the shaft spray welded to build it back up to where you could take it back down to original size and then it should be purtyyyy smooove.
usually you would grind the cylinder and get new bushings to fit the new diameter you cna also often replace the damaged part of the piston but that requiers alot of machining and welding
These videos are great. Everyone who's ever worked on machinery knows the pure euphoria rush of finally releasing a stuck part. You really feel it with this project.
10:30 turn the rod down to good metal. Then turn a new bronze bush to match. Then seal appropriately. You've got a lot of bronze bush to replace. I would also suggest finding some steam train enthusiast's and pick their brains about getting that sealed up for steam. Unless you're gonna power it by air then butyl glands will be your friends.
I would look into Viking gold for the bushings. It’s an aluminum copper alloy which is excellent for naval applications with more durability and corrosion resistance.
Been a fitter and turner for 5 years, so definitely not as knowledgeable as peter there, but I've been making hydraulic pistons for the last two years so I hope I can help! It could be a solid billet, but it looks like there could be two scotch keys holding it there, the ones we make were also threaded on to whatever shaft with a healthy dose of red loctite! You might be able to drill out the scotch keys but I have no idea how to unscrew it
as someone whose worked on rusty cars before, i really feel the satisfaction you get when the stuck part finally comes out. Its always right before you feel you have to give up as well
@Insertnamehere662 when i still lived in the rust belt i had to reuse every part cuz i was completely broke and throwing junkyard parts on a 96 civic, so it was a big learning lesson in patience and technique
Work as a machinist in Canada. You would loose less material on the shaft if it was ground. That way you might not need to do additive welding and re- machine it to size.
Have the rod ground and carbide coated. That's what I do for rods on large compressors where I work. Not only will that bring the rod back to the correct size but also is extremely wear resistant.
Having worked short term at a company who refurbished hydraulic rams, it was common practice to scrap the rod (the piston usually screws onto the end of it) the rod itself was hard chrome plated, brought in various diameters, I think you can get the rod re-chromed but it's not cheap
That old vintage iron holds a special place in my heart ❤️ The amount of damage from the loose screw on the piston and damper is pretty significant. You can try to clean it all up on the lathe but it may cause the tolerances of everything to be way too much. I would love to see you make all new components on your lathe. Would make great content aswell
It looks like there are two threaded setscrew holes on the face of the piston that are half into the piston itself and into the ram shaft. I've seen it done so the piston has something else other than friction holding it onto the shaft. I would say those setscrews came loose because they are not lined up with each other anymore and it would explain all the damage in the cylinder and on the piston.
For driving things out or in (like long nails into old beams,stakes in ground or loosening things)-a jackhammer with cut off chisel is a king.Especially if you have a good strong one with 15j -it can be even rotary drill hammer. And remember if you want to loosen a taper hit it sideways first. If you heat things up use parafin candle -wax penetrates and lubes things. Citric acid (e330 food preservative -granulated powder you can buy in store for cheap,4% mix with water) works wonders on rust, when you need to submerge large objects you cna build a frame around it and use construction nylon sheet as a pool .
Beeswax melted into stuck parts helps. Also heating and quench cooling rapidly with a hose helps As for the pitted ram it will need to be ground. Not sure how great compressed air is going to work compared to steam, steam continuously expands more so compared to compressed air therefore supplying more power per volume charge. Air will get it to run but not as much power. When you make the new bronze bearing you can size it to the reground shaft. You will also then need a spacer for the bore into the top die holder.
As others have said, you can machine the piston down a bit and use a good spray weld to build it back up. It would also give you a chance to give it a nicer outer layer too.
could try resurfacing the piston. Either by milling it down smaller or Welding on a new surface layer and then milling that back down to its original dimensions. I am not a hydraulics expert but ive seen that being done to pistons like that before. then again if its cast iron im not sure how well a weld would take to it and if a weld might crack it since cast iron is a lil on the brittle end of things.
I've seen Abom79 spray weld and turn to size for repairs on hydraulic shafts. The problem is whether or not your lathe can handle the piston. You might have to find a bigger lathe to use for it.
Turn it down to a smaller diameter, have new bushes made, and have th episton chrome plated. Try and aim for a similar plating specification to Chromax 280X.
Abom has shown several times doing spray welding to bulk up a shaft that has been worn down until it didn't fit anymore. Seems like this would also be a good application for spray welding.
Replace the shafr with the same size chrome bar (the top die still needs to fit. Source and fit new piston rings and gland seals if fitted. Remake bronze bushes to ensure smooth running and assist with sealing. Don't worry about the damage to the end of the main piston and the cushion piston, just make sure the valve plug moves freely. Rebuild and hey presto.
Usually rusted rods are scrapped and replaced with new ones because now these things are produced as stock material. And new rods are induction hardened and chrome plated.
If you're using steam ether make new smaller bushes and seals and turn the ram down to suit, or get it spray welded to build it up... if your using air then you could use one of the epoxy coatings they have for shafts now a days
@Alec Steele - RE: The piston... I've seen videos of what (I think is called?) 'Spark Welding', where a shaft is put into a lathe, rotated slowly and sparks gradually build up the thickness again to 'Oversize', so that in the end, the shaft can be lathed back to original tolerances... 🤔 😎🇬🇧
you should also take a temp mesurement at what temp every stuck piece is coming out on. that should save you time banging on it. just wait till its at that temp 1st then start pounding on it.
I really like the restoration video and think you should power on. Now that you have it somewhat apart, I think you should put together a diagram to reassemble it like what came with the mini steam hammer. Plan first, clean/fix then reassemble.
I saw this tip on YT from an old man, and in my experience it works. candle wax is really good as a penetrating fluid, you have to get the temperature right but it’s good
Hi Alec. The bushes will likely be "phosphor bronze" , you can buy it in bar form for machining random bushes / seals etc. There are a couple of ways to go with the piston. One option would be hard chrome plating. This is the type of finish you see on a hydraulic ram on a digger. Its only able to be applied up to say 0.1mm. If you need to turn off more than that to get to sound metal, then you could look at a thermal spray solution, such as APS or HVOF, which can be built up as thick as 2-3mm. There are quite a few specialist machine repair companies that do this kind of work and can probably give more specific advice. I have worked with Sulzer - Bootham in York, they are very good.
Awesome video as always, and I honestly don't know which i enjoy more, the refurbishing of old stuff or the making of new. Either way, looking forward to more!
The rod can be mde from new chrome bar with a threaded end, the bronze bushes can be remade on a basic lathe,, suggesting any other fix would be hugely detrimental and costly, get in touch with any decent hydraulics firm,, (not pirtek!!!) and they should be able to fix those issues no problem and absolutely be the best, quickest, and cheapest method,, i spent enough years doing it myself,,
Seems like the "top piston" could serve 2 purposes: 1) Steam above forms a cushion for the main piston.. and (2) when the main piston contacts the top piston it hits the "plug" which is actually a valve that when pushed up by the lower piston lets steam into the upper part of the cylinder and starts the downstroke.
Thanks for watching guys! I’m keen to hear your input on the project! I appreciate our sponsor for making it possible to try and restore this thing! Go to TryFum.com/ALECSTEELE and use code ALECSTEELE to get a discount off your order today.
when you restore, fix, improve your big tools. its the greatest thing
take the old die key and make a knife out of it or something
Use a laser rust remover thingy 😃
I think I would rather not huff random fumes. That's basically just a vape and that entire industry is unregulated in most countries.
@@SAOS451316 Except it isn't anything like a vape. Its just pulling air over a polyester sponge impregnated with essential oils. Its no different from what goes into your lungs when you're peeling an orange.
Kurtis of the Cutting Edge Engineering channel is often repairing damaged hydraulic cylinders. Sometimes he can lathe down the cylinder and add a sleeve to it or the casing, other times he gets a brand new cylinder and almost machines a new one from scratch, salvaging the bits he can from the now "donor" part. I would recommend seeing his process for a few options.
I think he use spray welding too so as to build up the piece again.
First person I thought of looking at this project as someone who might have a wealth of knowledge on dealing with this piece of machinery.
100% need to watch a few hours of Kurtis at work if Alec wants to DIY this. He really should just replace it with a new cylinder and machine the mating parts.
Exactly who I thought of...
I like that channel, too. The problem in this particular case is that the barrel is actually a 100 year old cast iron casting, not a piece of tube steel. He cannot replace the barrel. And if there was a screw bouncing around in there to the point that it damaged the top of the piston, the walls of the barrel will probably be in a similar condition.
Since you have to replace those bronze bushings anyway, You can keep the original piston rod, reduce the diameter until the pitting is gone, then bore out the new bushings to that new piston rod diameter.
I would a "column A, column B" to this and Mr. @manuelschubert3449's comments. That is if replacing it isn't in the spirit of the refurbishment.
@@jesseb5378 Yes, I think @ianjohnson182 seems to have the right solution, but I desperately want to see Alec attempt spray welding...
I totally agree. Have the piston ground, hard chromed then ground to a logical size, the make the bushes to suit
@@crashnburn2351I agree, send it out to get a chrome finish.
I was about to suggest this. Seems like the most appropriate way to accomplish this, similar to re-sleeving an engine.
The piston rod can be turned down to remove all the Rost and pits. Then up to 1mm in diameter can be coated with High Velocity Oxygen Fuel (HVOF) spraying and a powdered carbide material for superior corrosion and wear protection. WC-CoCr, Amperit 558.074 would be my preferred material choice. There are several coating shops in UK who can support here😊
this would make a spectacular video for this audience, too. Spray welding on a lathe looks incredible on slowmo
Especially for an audience which love metal and fire 🔥
It is much cheaper to make a new one. These rods are known for breaking, and you end up with a very expensive rod that is also thinner at core. And because the piston is quite damaged by a bolt that was in the cylinder, there is a chance that the piston has play on the shaft or is no longer even seated straight.
All in all, I would go for the old-fashioned way, also because it fits better with the history of this machine.
"let us know if you know what you're talking about."
Me, who knows nothing about anything because I have a desk job: "ok here's what you gotta do..."
Come on man! I also have a desk job - and it is also quite hard - because when something isn't right you have to go and tell what is going on :D I mean... desk job isn't just sitting! But mega-respect for people in production! Although they arent always kind :D
Alex,
Been a fitter turner fabricator for over 50 yrs so I have a few clues. Even finished ground on a large Churchill cylindrical grinder 2 piston rod assemblies for a Beche + Grohs counter blow hammer that had dies each weighing 14 tons yes she was a big bastard.
The piston heads were 24 inch dia.
Keeping in mind that this hammer of yours is a century old ish so before you rush into anything I would check out a few things first. I would start with the cylinder bore. Now due to its age there will be wear, out of roundness and taper. This cylinder would benefit from a hone or a re-bore.
Next I would replace the piston, rod ( one unit ) and rings and of coarse the bronze bushes. The piston and rod machined from a solid billet. Mild steel would be fine but if you want to be on the safe side a medium tensile steel 4140 or similar. Check with steel supplier or Massey Hammers for their recommendation.
Wouldnt mess around with chrome plating. the old rod. Piston will be worn too. Most think its the same chrome that is used on cars etc when in fact it needs to be hard chrome which will need to be ground afterwards. H/chrome is expensive, well here in NZ it is.
After turning from a solid billet I would definitely get it ground. Another thing to check out before doing anything is in what condition the bore is in the tup as the rod needs to be a good fit, ( you now know all about that). That bore might just need machining too which will obviously affect the dia of the piston rod.
There is quite a difference between your rod assembly and a hydraulic rod one. The cycle times are many times more along with very violent forces not found in a h/cylinder.
So this will all need some careful research, measurement, costing and availability of the materials Depending on your budget there might have to be a compromise but Im sure you will be able to get "mates rates" on materials and machining. Even then it will not be cheap but it will be a "good job" well done.
Peter.
Would stainless or a stainless alloy be a better option for the ram instead of chroming it?
And Alec, you've got some great creators in the TH-cam community that know what they're talking about. I'd send a message to Titans of CNC and see if they'd be willing to help you out on some of the parts, or maybe they'd have some ideas.
When you said “a battle of wills” I was waiting for Stelter to walk in and knock it over.
I also would've laughed my ass off, Will popped into my head but nothing so cohesive entered it.
You should talk to @CuttingEdgeEngineering and see what he would do. He works with tons of big huge hydraulic machines. I feel like Air or Steam is close enough lol.
Love that channel. Would be awesome to see a collab with him and Alec.
another great channel, Curtis and the misses super cool. I was thinking the same thing watching Alec struggle.
Right-o guys... F*ck off train!
I would recommend getting in touch with Curtis over at cutting edge engineering. He fixes hydraulic pistons for a living. Among other things.
In case you don't want to end up with a reduced piston shaft diameter, you could try reaching out to someone who does spray welding. It works by spraying molten metal onto the part while it's rotating, increasing the diameter. So you would take material off until the rust and pitting are gone, then spray weld until it has a slightly larger diameter than originally, then machine it back down to the original diameter.
I don't know if this process makes sense economically in your situation, but it could be worth it to show it just because of how cool it is. There are some welders here on TH-cam who can do it, so maybe you could do a collab.
Cutting edge engineering is a good one who does this type of stuff
or for more durability you can turn it down and have it hard chrome plated to build up material then have it ground to fit new bushings
I'm sure others have suggested this already. But the two bronze parts get oakum stuffing cord between them which is tightened in place to form a steam seal. I'm sure you're on the right track with the floating upper piston too. That's a buffer which stopped buffing due to the damage and what I suspect is a one way valve that got peened out of shape and stuck in place. Hence the problems getting it to fit. The piston is likely been distorted as well so perhaps the hole is not a good fit or even totally round any longer. As for the shaft it could be built up with spray welding and ground back. But it might be easier and less risk of distortion if you can find the right size to replace the whole thing with a piece of cylinder rod shafting. Kurtis at Custom Edge Engineering being someone that has discussed this choice and why in a few of his heavy cylinder rebuild videos. Abom has also brought up this issue of spray welding and distortion. Of course it's also a 100+ year steam hammer. So sandblasting, spray welding and grinding back might be entirely fine. Likely would be.
Love that you use a earth wire to hold the bar up
You could say your technique is *_grounded_*
As a crane operator I have helped resurface a cylinder piston. Lathe clean it, thousands of an inch and chrome it. Pistons are chrome because they can handle the weather and in your case steam.
If you have to take more off of it, you can put a sleeve over it with an interference fit after the lathe.
Hydraulic cylinders are ground and re-chromed to refresh them when rebuilt.
Lathe it? .Turn it please
I really like how he screams “We’ve done it” instead of “I”, really values his friend !
The royal "we" - we're all there in the workshop wishing it to come free.
Yeap. We are all human afterall ^^
1:07 Every time you mention a square of any sort I'm expecting it to be a segue into a sponsorship message.
Doesn't that tell you something about how effective TH-cam partnership ads are? He doesn't even need to mention the shaped-space people and you're already building your online presence!
Kudos for using the correct spelling of segue
@@alexpeartree2019 If it was any other creator I wouldn't notice, but Alec and Will have conditioned it into a trigger word.
Regarding the rusted piston shaft, we had such uggly damage on our steam locomotive and had it chromed. Such packing are always a little leaking on a steam locomotive because of the surface rust but now, because of the chrome surface, this just seal perfectly!
0:48 That "Yee!!" upon success tells me that you may have left the rural United States, but it did not leave you. Much love from a mechanic in Michigan
For your bronze cracks, anneal the pieces first, then braze a little bronze wire into the cracks, then re-anneal the fixed pieces to make sure the cracks are fully filled, repeat that process until the post-treatment annealing stops re-opening the cracks
Not sure on the tolerances, but seems like machining a new piece (if you have a piece of roundstock bronze that size) might be better.
He'll likely need to re-make both anyway, because if the shaft is severely pitted, he'll have to machine it down more than they can add back via chrome plating, and thus needs to re-machine the bronze to a smaller ID.
Both these seem like great suggestions be wary of tig welding bronze as not all of it can be welded safely. Try striking a pool on a non spec surface first if you try to tig it.
Hi Alec,
I would grind the piston rod and then chrome it. I think this would be the best solution for the repair, maybe even a little better than the original construction.
Have a good day!
I have been a huge fan of this channel for years, but these past couple of videos have really made me very excited for what is to come. I rarely, if ever make comments on videos, but I really just wanted to voice how excited I am for the future of this channel. C:
Absolutely LOVE restoration series. I have mostly no idea what is going on but I'm all the more invested.
Where the piston screws onto the rod there would have been grub screws drilled into the thread to stop the piston coming off, they've came out and caused the damage on the back side of the piston that looks like threads, so awesome watching you bring this hammer back to life!
start with an evapo-rust bath for 2 days to remove the rust
then spray weld to fill in the voids (adam booth did a video a couple of years ago on spray welding)
then lathe back to size
Me and my 5 year old son love watching and learning new things from your videos. We both yelled with you whenever things started moving or finally came out. Thank you!
You should send the piston and cracked bits to Cutting Edge Engineering, best collaboration EVAR!
Those other channels that do "restoration" get the process done in 20 minutes. Alec takes 10 minutes to remove a single part. I suspect that Alex's struggle is more real.
Hi Alec, Machine the ram on a large lathe then use the spray steel method to build it up then remachine it to the proper size. Cheers from Tennessee
Cutting edge engineering would be a great place to ask for opinions something like what you’re dealing with
On that piston rod, you'll have trouble getting the finish made properly in your lathe. The tooling will leave little grooves in the rod that will eat your bronze bearings like a file. The easiest way for you to get it fixed would be to clean it up with hydrochloric acid to remove the rust (don't put oil on it), and send it out to get ground and chrome plated. Any hydraulic cylinder making/repair place should be able to do that. Or if you want to use your lathe, get a tool post grinder.
Redo your bronze bushings, both of them. You don't want a piece breaking off and floating around like that random screw was.
As for your trouble removing things, you need a hammer that has the power of Thor. So, get one of those Astro Pneumatic Thor air hammers.
Past hydraulic tech here, if you can get a new seal to take up the difference, you can turn the shaft of the cylinger ~.2-.3mm without compromising the strength of the shaft too badly. When you start rebuilding, i would highly recommend looking into using a graphite seal for your center ram ring.
Watching the joy on your face when you finally accomplish tearing down another piece is amazing haha
We do Babbitt metal work on hydraulic cylinder rods at work, at least the ones where making a new one from new stock isn't economical. Grind her down to clean metal, heat it up and flow Babbitt metal onto the rod on the lathe (like spray brazing), turn the Babbitt metal coating down to dimension on the lathe and polish.
Brilliant
Alex, yes the upper piston is a safety cushion, if the piston rod breaks, or the ram comes loose the steam or air will send the piston out the top and come back down on you. I have a 300 lb Chambersburg Utility hammer with a similar upper piston
For hydraulics they sell chrome plated shaft. It is ground and polished before chrome plating so it provides a great surface for sealing. Turning the shaft you have down in a lathe will never be able to match the surface finish or precision of a ground shaft. The chrome plating will give it a much longer life and you can get it case hardened to give you an even longer life. The case Harding is not so hard you cannot machine it but carbide tooling should be used. In the end buying a new shaft would be the best and easiest way to go and what we would do in hydraulic repair
The unbridled joy every time a part comes out... So much fun to watch
Hi Alec,
Laser Cladding is an option.
Have utilised this process a few times for corroded shafts. They usually use Nickel in this process, which will improve the longevity of the repair.
Hope this helps.
I'd probably consider truing up the cylinder bore (good chance it's out of round and rather barrel shaped), then putting a bronze overlay (brazing) onto the piston to bring it back to a good fit. Turn the piston rod, then make new glands or stick with tradition and resleeve them (much cheaper).
As I see it, as long as the original heavy bits aren't cracked, why not keep using them...
Love what you are doing, keep up the amazing work!
I work on aerospace valves, some have pistons just like that. When the valves come back from the service, we grind off the unserviceable surfaces, chrome plate it, and grind it back to print specifications. It often is better than new when we are done with it.
For the ram shaft you might be able to get a bit of hard chromed bar such as is used in hydraulic machinery. It's wear really well and solve your sealing issues.
The top piston is an accumulator piston, helps to smooth out the cycling of the hammer, likely to make it easier to use and thus more accurate when forging.
I love the optimism of asking the internet a question Alec. I know you'll get one or two genuine responses from people that know, but I would not want to wade through the many comments from "experts" online.
Love the resto videos, love seen the old way of how machines were made
Since you're going to have to remake lots of bits anyway... Might I recommend you turn the dyes 45 or at least create a new dove tail top and bottom at 45 for ease of removal
Also I'd turn that piston down and then drop it itu a chrome sleeve
the absolute maniacal laughter just makes you realize how difficult it was to get that out. I know the laughter that comes along with finally accomplishing something that was that hard for you to achieve.
You need to do some lathework to the component in this video, then you should thermal spray the wear surfaces with a harder material, and do some more lathework to get it back to tolerances. Get in touch with a company that can help you with the thermal spraying, and take it from there. It is not a very costly operation. Thanks for sharing yet another great video!! Best regards from Roy in Norway!
Obviously a little late, but i had pretty good result rust removing with electrolysis, obviously it wont remove any pitting, but it will remove less material than grinding it away.
I dont know if the size of the object matters as i mostly done nuts, bolts and blades, but it might be worth a shot.
Anyway, i really enjoy watching old "rare" tools and machines come to new life, keep it coming 😁
On the rusty shaft, Make one in 17-4 Stainless. Or have it hard chromed and ground back.
Love this content, I would turn the ram and then chrome it. then have new bronze parts made to fit. The rest (so far) looks like you can refurbish and re-use. Keep up the good work.
17:37 I think that the inner part will get pushed out of the way when pressureized and when the ramm pushes on the donut it close the hole and work as damper.
Turn the piston down on the lathe, then sleeve the cylinder if necessary. Paint everything with rust resistant paint. Make it look like a giant steam monster or something...keep it up...enjoying this.
This episode definitely brought out some serious levels of excitement and rejoicing. Also, watching you battle all of these keys and things that don't want to move reminds me of hand tool rescues' power hammer restoration. That was quite the stuck thing. Really excited for the next episode!
You could also get the shaft spray welded to build it back up to where you could take it back down to original size and then it should be purtyyyy smooove.
My favourit series in a long time!
Bicycle inner tube cut down makes a great hold when trying to use a massive punch. Love watching this series
That little plug on top seems to be a bypass valve when the ram comes all the way up it hits the little knob and allows any extra pressure to equalize
usually you would grind the cylinder and get new bushings to fit the new diameter you cna also often replace the damaged part of the piston but that requiers alot of machining and welding
These videos are great. Everyone who's ever worked on machinery knows the pure euphoria rush of finally releasing a stuck part. You really feel it with this project.
10:30 turn the rod down to good metal. Then turn a new bronze bush to match. Then seal appropriately.
You've got a lot of bronze bush to replace. I would also suggest finding some steam train enthusiast's and pick their brains about getting that sealed up for steam. Unless you're gonna power it by air then butyl glands will be your friends.
I would look into Viking gold for the bushings. It’s an aluminum copper alloy which is excellent for naval applications with more durability and corrosion resistance.
Also known as aluminum bronze.
And then there is phosphor bronze, used to make bearings.
Been a fitter and turner for 5 years, so definitely not as knowledgeable as peter there, but I've been making hydraulic pistons for the last two years so I hope I can help!
It could be a solid billet, but it looks like there could be two scotch keys holding it there, the ones we make were also threaded on to whatever shaft with a healthy dose of red loctite!
You might be able to drill out the scotch keys but I have no idea how to unscrew it
as someone whose worked on rusty cars before, i really feel the satisfaction you get when the stuck part finally comes out. Its always right before you feel you have to give up as well
You’re a stronger man than me, usually the angle grinder comes out quicker than the part does.
@Insertnamehere662 when i still lived in the rust belt i had to reuse every part cuz i was completely broke and throwing junkyard parts on a 96 civic, so it was a big learning lesson in patience and technique
Work as a machinist in Canada. You would loose less material on the shaft if it was ground. That way you might not need to do additive welding and re- machine it to size.
Have the rod ground and carbide coated. That's what I do for rods on large compressors where I work. Not only will that bring the rod back to the correct size but also is extremely wear resistant.
Having worked short term at a company who refurbished hydraulic rams, it was common practice to scrap the rod (the piston usually screws onto the end of it) the rod itself was hard chrome plated, brought in various diameters, I think you can get the rod re-chromed but it's not cheap
That old vintage iron holds a special place in my heart ❤️ The amount of damage from the loose screw on the piston and damper is pretty significant. You can try to clean it all up on the lathe but it may cause the tolerances of everything to be way too much. I would love to see you make all new components on your lathe. Would make great content aswell
Heyy, if you didn't find the perfect solution yet, this guy will probably know: Cutting Edge Engineering Australia. Super talented guy!
It looks like there are two threaded setscrew holes on the face of the piston that are half into the piston itself and into the ram shaft. I've seen it done so the piston has something else other than friction holding it onto the shaft. I would say those setscrews came loose because they are not lined up with each other anymore and it would explain all the damage in the cylinder and on the piston.
For driving things out or in (like long nails into old beams,stakes in ground or loosening things)-a jackhammer with cut off chisel is a king.Especially if you have a good strong one with 15j -it can be even rotary drill hammer.
And remember if you want to loosen a taper hit it sideways first.
If you heat things up use parafin candle -wax penetrates and lubes things.
Citric acid (e330 food preservative -granulated powder you can buy in store for cheap,4% mix with water) works wonders on rust, when you need to submerge large objects you cna build a frame around it and use construction nylon sheet as a pool .
Beeswax melted into stuck parts helps.
Also heating and quench cooling rapidly with a hose helps
As for the pitted ram it will need to be ground. Not sure how great compressed air is going to work compared to steam, steam continuously expands more so compared to compressed air therefore supplying more power per volume charge. Air will get it to run but not as much power.
When you make the new bronze bearing you can size it to the reground shaft. You will also then need a spacer for the bore into the top die holder.
That "Get Some" was personal. hahaha. Great success
As others have said, you can machine the piston down a bit and use a good spray weld to build it back up. It would also give you a chance to give it a nicer outer layer too.
could try resurfacing the piston. Either by milling it down smaller or Welding on a new surface layer and then milling that back down to its original dimensions. I am not a hydraulics expert but ive seen that being done to pistons like that before. then again if its cast iron im not sure how well a weld would take to it and if a weld might crack it since cast iron is a lil on the brittle end of things.
I love the restoration videos!! Love this guy keep smashing it bro!! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
This is why its always nice to have another person around. 2 minds are better than one
I love this series so please recover and make more
I've seen Abom79 spray weld and turn to size for repairs on hydraulic shafts. The problem is whether or not your lathe can handle the piston. You might have to find a bigger lathe to use for it.
Great video, nice to see you make more progress on the steam hammer. Looking forward to seeing you turn something your lathe is sized for.
Turn it down to a smaller diameter, have new bushes made, and have th episton chrome plated. Try and aim for a similar plating specification to Chromax 280X.
One of your best videos in a while. Thanks.
On the shaft I would Skim cut on a Lathe and send out to be chrome plated and ground. Good luck, love this content.
I've seen hydraulic cylinders built up using some spray welding technique on a lathe and turned back to dimension on large mining equipment.
Abom has shown several times doing spray welding to bulk up a shaft that has been worn down until it didn't fit anymore. Seems like this would also be a good application for spray welding.
Replace the shafr with the same size chrome bar (the top die still needs to fit. Source and fit new piston rings and gland seals if fitted. Remake bronze bushes to ensure smooth running and assist with sealing. Don't worry about the damage to the end of the main piston and the cushion piston, just make sure the valve plug moves freely. Rebuild and hey presto.
Turn and chrome it. Plating is perfect for this tool
Usually rusted rods are scrapped and replaced with new ones because now these things are produced as stock material. And new rods are induction hardened and chrome plated.
If you're using steam ether make new smaller bushes and seals and turn the ram down to suit, or get it spray welded to build it up... if your using air then you could use one of the epoxy coatings they have for shafts now a days
@Alec Steele - RE: The piston... I've seen videos of what (I think is called?) 'Spark Welding', where a shaft is put into a lathe, rotated slowly and sparks gradually build up the thickness again to 'Oversize', so that in the end, the shaft can be lathed back to original tolerances... 🤔
😎🇬🇧
You had the perfect possibility for a Square Space ad at around 1:20!
Loving this series, maybe give Hand Tool Rescue a buzz for some tips
Weld build up alternate runs not to put to much heat in one area. Then heat treat then machine. Is how we do the agitator shafts on our autoclaves.
you should also take a temp mesurement at what temp every stuck piece is coming out on. that should save you time banging on it. just wait till its at that temp 1st then start pounding on it.
I really like the restoration video and think you should power on. Now that you have it somewhat apart, I think you should put together a diagram to reassemble it like what came with the mini steam hammer. Plan first, clean/fix then reassemble.
I saw this tip on YT from an old man, and in my experience it works. candle wax is really good as a penetrating fluid, you have to get the temperature right but it’s good
OMG as a professional Rigger you guys are killing me with your rigging.
Philosophy of this projects disassembly - it cannot be stuck if it's liquid 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Hi Alec. The bushes will likely be "phosphor bronze" , you can buy it in bar form for machining random bushes / seals etc.
There are a couple of ways to go with the piston. One option would be hard chrome plating. This is the type of finish you see on a hydraulic ram on a digger. Its only able to be applied up to say 0.1mm. If you need to turn off more than that to get to sound metal, then you could look at a thermal spray solution, such as APS or HVOF, which can be built up as thick as 2-3mm. There are quite a few specialist machine repair companies that do this kind of work and can probably give more specific advice. I have worked with Sulzer - Bootham in York, they are very good.
Very competent commentary! 👍
Awesome video as always, and I honestly don't know which i enjoy more, the refurbishing of old stuff or the making of new. Either way, looking forward to more!
i love long-term projects like this!
The rod can be mde from new chrome bar with a threaded end, the bronze bushes can be remade on a basic lathe,, suggesting any other fix would be hugely detrimental and costly, get in touch with any decent hydraulics firm,, (not pirtek!!!) and they should be able to fix those issues no problem and absolutely be the best, quickest, and cheapest method,, i spent enough years doing it myself,,
Seems like the "top piston" could serve 2 purposes: 1) Steam above forms a cushion for the main piston.. and (2) when the main piston contacts the top piston it hits the "plug" which is actually a valve that when pushed up by the lower piston lets steam into the upper part of the cylinder and starts the downstroke.