I’m not sure Thomas has realized the amount of self harm he does to his brand. He comes off as very unlikable if you’re an outsider and was what kept me from watching for years before I subbed. If you can get past that, he’s good a lot of credibility and good content. However, like someone else mentioned, he has become almost too obsessed with his brand the last several months in off-putting ways. He is slowly turning into the things he wants to avoid.
@@dropinaut5712 totally. He stood on a soap box for 23 minutes straight while his guest awkwardly played off his discomfort. The fact he didn’t start the interview over or cut it while uploading is concerning. He needs to hire a PR team to teach him…
@@dropinaut5712 Last couple months? Dude one of his most popular videos has him saying game developers will be considered gods within the first 90 seconds
Yeah I've seldom heard someone bragging so much as in this one. And it was the same thing he bragged about like 5 times in a row. Like I heard you the first time!
Yeah I can sense the insecurity in this one, he is a kind guy and makes wonderful valuable content but the problem is the selling courses interviewer youtuber community in general even if they are successful in their field has a bad taste in many people's mouths. He is likley as fustrated by that as everyone.
@@xxkillbotxx7553 no one is arguing he always had an ego. In the past he’s been honest with his ego, but recently he hasn’t and it comes off very hypocritical.
Thomas here’s a tip: when interviewing, jot down what you want to bring up on a notepad so you don’t have to hold the idea in your head and half-listen to the guest (saying “yep” to it all 😂 and holding your breath) until they’re done talking, cuz you de-railed him a ton. Hope this helps!
Without sounding rude to you Thomas, love you stuff but I agree with this guy. I've noticed it quite often, sometimes it comes across as rude and uncaring (which we know isn't true) jordan peterson interviewing system is a good one to follow. All the best to you Thomas
@@cammwinchester I got the same vibe too. Especially around 1:08:00. He definitely looked like he zoned out. I hope he sees the critisim and understands we are all big fans and just mean well. Like many here, I love the podcasts too. Unfortunately newcomers to the channel who aren't familiar with him will take it the wrong way most likely.
Never fails. Every video he has to make it about himself with something along the lines of "People are like Thomas isn't a game developer he's a TH-camr". Then goes on a several minute speeches plugging himself with EVERYTHING. Like bro, I usually have no issues with your content and throw your videos up in the background while I do other stuff. But I hear you always pivot to the same talking points EVERY VIDEO. You are so market brained that you probably even aren't aware that YOU are creating this image of yourself as just a salesman. I get everyone has their own way of doing things and figuring out their own method to the madness of the game development career. I get it, you are completely focused on just networking with others and marketing your programs every time. But you are stretching yourself so far that there's a lack of substance. I keep up with the gamedev people on TH-cam just as a background filler. So what I say doesn't mean much and I'll just see how things turn out. Twisted Towers release is going to reveal a lot of the approach, so I am interested in the future content based off that.
also dosent help him saying hes a game deveoloper who dosent play games... like bro you got to play something at least to give you ideas on game mechanics.
@@TheVisualDigitalArts Yeah. I don't understand the mindset of a game dev who doesn't like playing games. It's like a writer who doesn't like reading, an artist who doesn't appreciate art, or a cook who hates food and only eats to survive. I think no game dev will pass a certain threshold unless they play games in the genre they are making their game in. This threshold isn't monetary, but the quality of their game.
It’s crazy how Thomas wants to gatekeep advice when he himself changes his views on game development constantly (even in the same podcast). Not to mention he’s on record for admitting his first play test for Twisted Towers was terrible with feedback being he missed the mark in a lot of areas. Remember to stay humble or life will do it for you.
Ive started only watching his videos when he has a guest or his dev livestreams because its the onlytime I hear anything different than Thomas just Pitching his Business Ventures.
I really admire the focus on building a catalogue of smaller games and understanding your audience. I'm almost certain the kind of gamers that finds his titles legendary probably already played his previous games or other games like it. These are the gamers that will give you a good review. After that it's the hook and good branding that will tie all these games together.
Thomas, I love you and I love your content, and I want to tell you this so you can make better content. I watched your webinar, and you spent most of the video talking about how great you are and promising that you will give the greatest advice, without even reaching to the point or the actual advice, and all of that wasn't not skippable, so I couldn't even move past that. The problem is that all of us know you so you don't need to promise or prov anything or you will end up being the thing you actually fear
Hey Thomas First off, I love your videos. But Im sure you know that game dev is extremely hard to start off when trying to make money and some people will never be able to go full time off of it so its not fair to discredit them for sharing knowledge just because they dont make plenty of money. They still pour in hours of game dev and are just sharing what they learned from many good youtubers like you. Edit: Some more helpful critisicm to help with your podcasts is, try to stay more invested in what the other person is saying instead of just responding with yes and then wanting to say what you want, trust me I struggle with this too. Also why did you say that you don't ask for wishlists and this is just an education channel when you have asked multiple times in other devlogs from before.
Sometimes people need to follow bad advice to learn how to filter advice. Failure is life’s greatest teacher. Wherever there’s money there’s grift. I hope you focus on doing your thing, focusing on positivity and the results will sort themselves out.
If a game dev perhaps make lets say 5-10k € first month and talking about that in videos and educating about the journey from a to b im gonna watch it if i like the channel overall or the ppl working on the channel or if i just want to follow along on their journey because its informational/educational even though they not making a fortune of revenue. Sometimes its useful just to see other who also struggle. I dont know if im "strange" or weird for thinking like this but thats my thoughts on this subject. If there are yt channels that claim things that arent true or get like 1-1000 € first month but talking like they know how to get way way more then i wouldnt follow them or even watch their content.
Love it. Would love to sometime be on your podcast. I’m making a Japanese learning game and even though it’s in early access and pretty small, I’m making enough money being married with 3 kids. It’s pretty insane how you can make money with a great vision, but you need to be able to convey that idea well. Best Light
The TH-cam gamedev point is really interesting. I recently got into TH-cam and I can see uncredible people being an issue recently. I'm a believer that if you want to deeply know a topic, you should teach it. This kind of goes to imposter syndrome and fake it till you make it mentality. I see the argument for both sides, people want credible information. But at the same time, gamedevs teaching are good growth to the developer. I don't think there really is a right answer besides the viewer learning how to filter it themselves.
You should talk to Adam C Younis, Creator of the Unity powered Pixel Action adventure game, Insignia. He's been working on his game for like 7 years and I think the conversation between you two would be fascinating!
This is a such a weird discussion. Even more after hearing Thomas's promo on "how to make money before finishing your game". His channel and his program is one of the reasons why there are a lot of youtubers sharing their experiences. Everyone has the right to share what they know and their journey... is weird to flex at spends on those who know less, when you make money teaching others.
Yeah, I've seen an explosion of game devs on TH-cam that haven't shipped profitable games and every time I see a new one, my first thought is, "I wonder if this person took Thomas' course on doing TH-cam as a game developer". I think he really needed to focus on the topic with more nuance and with less hurt ego - he's clearly bothered by what some people say and spent too much time in a defensive manner that was kind of off-putting.
Thomas Brush first We would like to say much love to you for what you doing in the Gaming community, this was a great Podcast I really enjoyed Like soo much
His nintendo comment made me think of how I am going about this journey. Cuz Mario, Pokemon, etc they are copies of copies. Same gameplay, different skins. Right? Every new game is the same as before with a few new things. The game I am making now is like a learning game. It is my first so I want to put enough in where I can copy, paste in the next game but not so much that this takes me forever to make. But even inside this game, I am copy, pasting. The first level I am making has most of the mechanics that the whole game will have. Just with different skins, blocks and whatever will be arranged differently to make the puzzle platforming harder etc but the core is the same. Like I am working on a turret enemy right right now that shoots acorns that hurts you. Well I could reskin it to be a spider that shoots web balls that slow you. 90% the same thing with the look and end result being tweaked. And if you think about what enemies are, they are just obstacles with animations. What is the difference between a boulder rolling around or an armadillo? A wall that pushes you or a big boy that pushes you? They are just traps with personalities. There is a lot of copy, pasting going on in video games. I hear a lot of advice whether to make a lot of small games or make one big game. But in the end, both give you the knowledge and editable example to work off of for your next game. 1 of Chad's platform games could equal 1 level of Timmy's platform game. The only difference is Chad is throwing it out there more often. But then again if Timmy is throwing out alphas and updates while using patreon or whatever then it is kinda the same thing. But also a problem with creating small games is people might not play them. I love indie games but there are a lot of indies I don't like the look of or it seems too short or whatever, I won't play them. Angry Penguin is a simple, rage inducing game. Where you go through a very unfair obstacle course. A extremely simple game that I bought cuz it was cheap but lost interest cuz I just got bored. First rule of platformers is make the character fun to play as. I didn't play Only Up cuz it looked boring but I did play the Only Up game with the characters chained together but with friends. So these small games can be easy and quick to make but if they aren't engaging enough then you'll waste as much time as if you made 1 big game. So really there is no guarantee of success with either route. But have their pros and cons. I guess in the end, the main factors determining which route you go is patience and money. I don't know, that is just what popped in my head at the 36 min marker.
Interesting to hear the strategy by Tree Fall Studios about building several brands in parallel, keeping the games small, reusing stuff etc ... but it doesn't reflect in sales in Steam either (they are really tiny on all of the games).
This video seems very arrogant, specifically calling people "disingenuous" just because they haven't sold as much as you have, or their path is different. Isn't one of the points of TH-cam is to remove the gatekeepers from publishing videos. Who cares if they want the "lifestyle" why do you guys get to determine that? Even if someone hasn't yet shipped, even if its unsuccessful, it's still interesting to see their journey... even if their journey is wrong, maybe they will find out. This video really, really, REALLY seems to be arrogant. AND in a way you are saying "listen to me and buy my stuff"... Some people's stuff isn't fake it's just aspirational. Of course there are scammers, but you guys don't come of as wanting to protect people, you come off as wanna be gatekeepers. 'you don't care about views'? Again doesn't sound like YOU are being truthful.
You can’t talk about what it’s like to be a cat… if you’re not a cats. His point is “if you can’t be successful, don’t tell others how to be.” And that’s a true statement
@@stevenkent5351 my point is that he does not get to define success. If someone else judged him in a similar fashion they could say that he is not a real game developer because he doesn’t play games. His definition of success may not be others.
@@dingosmoov any my response would be that he said “I know their numbers” meaning they arnt able to be profitable in this space, which means you shouldn’t be giving anyone advice on how to be profitable (successful) on the platform. To disagree with that basic concept is to be devoid of logic.
That still does not give him the right to define what success is, or decide what people are actually digesting from other videos. As well as, his videos often offer absolutes that even he himself is later proven to be wrong. Just refer to his videos before his own play tests. Others numbers and their own profitability does not make their videos worthless or that some of their advice may be sound. Just like Thomas’ videos. There may be some good points, but his hypocrisy and arrogance is on full display in this one.
@@dingosmoov it literally does. Don’t misrepresent yourself in a video as “this is the path to success” and then he wouldn’t have a leg to stand on, but people are being disingenuous about their life perspective, so he does. And I’m appreciative of the fact that he’s not naming names but warning us (about what we already know) that there are charlatans in this space giving bad advice.
Interesting statistics in Gamalytic. This guy can make a living with these games and the whole studio has only sold 3k worth of games on steam. Something does not add up or does he get a lot of ad revenue? He needs to make like 30-100x more money on other platforms compared to steam. If that is true, there seems to be a great opportunity to sell games on consoles.
This is correct. I can't give specifics, but your "30-100x" estimation IS what I have made on PlayStation alone. That does not include my sales on Xbox, previous sales on Wii U, or my numbers on Atari VCS. I also have a small Patreon as well to give full picture. And no ad revenue, my TH-cam page has made me like ...$60 bucks LOL. Also for the Steam stuff, the game sales are climbing somewhat, they are over 3k now, BUT Steam is basically my smallest platform lol.
Thanks for the interesting angle. I often wonder why Indies develop a game and then abandon their codebase alltogether. I intend to use the thigns I'm building for a looong time!
Hey Thomas!! Commenting here on this video, because it's the most recent, one question that i ever had, i never heard you talking about it, could make a good video, how do you get your sound effects, or how do you make them? Because there is some sites like epidemic sound, but i don't know if their licensing works for games and things like that.
I personally dislike the game devs that release a new game every few months on console, AAA clocks and hidden object games by same 2 devs flood the eshop and makes me depressed. I have respect if all the assets are theres tho lots of games use AI for these shovel titles. On the note about inexperienced devs making how to videos is usually because they want to fund their long form game without commute of say a 9-5. So they use a fake it till you make it mentality. Games are very expensive and hard to do just part time. So if they can spend one day a week working on youtube it's a better monitary choice. Does suck how it can teach the wrong things tho
Oh yea hopefully that is not what others thought when listening, that is not the method I was trying to convey at all. Those devs are not even making new games, they are reskinning, and just releasing new bundles/new versions to get back in the new release section on Switch because the Switch has a major visibility problem. Also like you mentioned most of those projects are just AI or asset flips which is quite insane.
This is such a frustrating part of game development, because the "games as business" and "games as high-functioning art and media" seem to mostly be mutually-exclusive markets, which is disappointing for someone who doesn't want to intentionally make shallow, watered-down slop just so it will sell.
I came here to comment on him interrupting the guest and I saw in the comments that this is a common theme…. My dude, take some advice on ThePrimeAgen and let your guests talk. It’s about them NOT you.
Wow, the ego really shines through at minute 16. I genuinely enjoy this space, but discrediting other devs just because you’ve made more income? That’s foul, Thomas. Knowing the strategy behind generating income through video games has nothing to do with whether you actually live off it. For example, most % of school or university teachers live off their university paycheck. Should we then understand that the equivalent percentage of teachers and professors who don’t apply their knowledge in real life are failures/scams? I am suspecting your answer revolves around a yes.. if so.. i imagine your course offer a higher probability of success because you’ve been so strategic and luck-free that publishers just happen to love your content and pay you handsomely-especially for the Apple Arcade port, right? It almost sounds like no luck played a part into your mild success! What a dissapointing high horse you're in.
But do you think it's appropriate for someone to share/teach HOW to make full time income from game dev if they have never done it? I do think that if university profs don't have the technical skills they are teaching they shouldn't be teaching them. It's different than teaching Calc or Economics. Creating a business involves technical skills and strategy. It isn't something you can theorize about, you gotta do it. These 2 in the video have done it for years. I'm sure there was some luck but they can continue to do it successfully because they have the skills and strategy to do it. I listen at 2x speed so maybe I didn't hear the ego but it just seems obvious to me that you can't really teach what you haven't done
@@noelpena4567 I see your point about having technical skills, but I'd argue that game development-like any creative or entrepreneurial endeavor-requires more than just those. Strategy and technical execution are crucial, yes, but if you're going to claim that only people who've achieved certain financial milestones are qualified to teach, that's a pretty slippery slope. Would you say someone who’s been creating games for years, refining their craft, learning from their mistakes, but hasn’t made six figures, is automatically less capable of teaching game design than someone who hit it big with one title? Also, on the topic of business skills, we both know that a huge part of success in games comes from understanding the market, managing teams, timing, and yes, a dash of luck. This isn’t just a linear, skills + strategy = success equation. And even if the two in the video have done it for years, it doesn’t mean their experience is directly transferable to everyone else-different markets, different game types, different circumstances. What’s troubling here is the idea that you can't respect or learn from someone unless they’ve hit a certain threshold of financial success. If we applied that logic across the board, we'd lose a lot of knowledge. You mentioned professors earlier: the best professors aren’t always the ones making bank from their inventions or discoveries-they're the ones who understand the landscape deeply and can articulate complex ideas effectively. Same goes for game dev. Also, minimizing the role of luck in success just feels dismissive of reality. Sure, these two are skilled, but no one in our industry-or any industry for that matter-can deny that a few lucky breaks along the way help. I’d say that understanding where luck fits into the equation is just as important as skill and strategy. Ignoring that would be doing a disservice to anyone genuinely trying to learn about game development. And about the ego thing-you know, ego is a sneaky bastard. It has a way of creeping in and blinding even the most talented people. I get it, when you’ve made it, it’s easy to assume that your formula works for everyone or that you’re on a higher plane than those who haven’t. But honestly, that kind of thinking can bite the best of us. If we forget the roles that things like luck, timing, and even privilege play, we’re doing more than just letting ego take over-we’re risking giving bad advice or, worse, alienating people who are just as passionate but on a different journey. It’s a slippery slope, and I think we all need to be mindful of that.
But except for the cases where nobody likes rhe game, all press is good press. Examples are plenty but it doesnt matter what press concord got because they made all the wrong decisions including not being f2p.
Es la primera vez que veo un video de este tipo. La verdad me parece un tóxico, como 20 minutos hablando mal de otros canales. Mejor aporta algo y deja a los demás que hagan lo suyo 🫠
I doubt it, BiteMe are super transparent about numbers, failures, what they learned from their shipped games. They test stuff out themselves and give the community an honest review of what they experienced, all stats and numbers on screen. They give helpful opinions on their community's trailers/steam pages/games that are based on learned knowledge, talks with people, or research... and are often less of a roast than what is expected xD But yeah, if this was aimed at them, which I doubt, that would be really weird
I assumed that too, but they’re also very transparent about their numbers and how much money their games make. So if that’s who Thomas is referring to I disagree
@@Benjamin-di3wm I don't think he ever said the person(s) problem was transparency, just that they are giving advice when really they shouldn't be, and they are who came to mind. I do not have a problem with them but I can see someone taking issue with people giving advice without the success, but maybe its someone else I do not know
@@spitefol5504 He mentioned that the dev(s) he was talking about never really showed results, nor had a launch (which obvs leads to people not having stats or results), which is why I mentioned it in my reply. I just felt it was important to ensure that if someone voices suspicions about whatever dev it may be, some confusion can be cleared up mostly also for other peeps who read these comments and saw the video - it is only normal for people to wanna know more xD It is why in my opinion it would have been better if Thomas had been more vague and generalized it as a situation, or had just been completely open, for the sake of every dev whose name will be thrown in the pot despite them doing good work
@@spitefol5504 I'm pretty sure he's talking about someone else here, our eternal arch nemesis. In the past 2 years, we did ship 2 games at least. -M
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I cant even Thomas either do the podcast or look at your phone your attitude and how you are constantly staring at your phone when they are talking and making egotistical comments your content has become unwatchable not to mention at multiple points in the video you are waiting for your turn to talk rather than actually listening to who is speaking if your not already looking at your phone. FYI Dev talking was great Thomas as always lately was a horrible to watch.
I don't understand why Thomas is getting so much hate in the comments. ☹☹ He is doing great work. Without his videos I wouldn't know half the things and developers that are doing great work like Eli here. And all the people complaining about his course, Get A Life pls.
@SubzeroBlack68 well that was my first thought. They have put out plenty of videos I would say are questionable in regards to how to succeed at game dev. But maybe I'm wrong I guess but I highly doubt it
I’m not sure Thomas has realized the amount of self harm he does to his brand.
He comes off as very unlikable if you’re an outsider and was what kept me from watching for years before I subbed. If you can get past that, he’s good a lot of credibility and good content. However, like someone else mentioned, he has become almost too obsessed with his brand the last several months in off-putting ways. He is slowly turning into the things he wants to avoid.
@@dropinaut5712 totally. He stood on a soap box for 23 minutes straight while his guest awkwardly played off his discomfort. The fact he didn’t start the interview over or cut it while uploading is concerning. He needs to hire a PR team to teach him…
@@dropinaut5712 Last couple months? Dude one of his most popular videos has him saying game developers will be considered gods within the first 90 seconds
Yeah I've seldom heard someone bragging so much as in this one. And it was the same thing he bragged about like 5 times in a row. Like I heard you the first time!
Yeah I can sense the insecurity in this one, he is a kind guy and makes wonderful valuable content but the problem is the selling courses interviewer youtuber community in general even if they are successful in their field has a bad taste in many people's mouths. He is likley as fustrated by that as everyone.
@@xxkillbotxx7553 no one is arguing he always had an ego. In the past he’s been honest with his ego, but recently he hasn’t and it comes off very hypocritical.
Thanks so much for having me on Thomas! I had a blast chatting about all things game dev with you.
this is the one. Thank you. I’m trying this
Clever man Eli!!
@@SpaceFudge Thank you!! =)
@@lilrockstar77 Awesome! Good luck! =D
I'm glad you mentioned porting to the Atari VCS! 🙃
Thomas here’s a tip: when interviewing, jot down what you want to bring up on a notepad so you don’t have to hold the idea in your head and half-listen to the guest (saying “yep” to it all 😂 and holding your breath) until they’re done talking, cuz you de-railed him a ton. Hope this helps!
Without sounding rude to you Thomas, love you stuff but I agree with this guy. I've noticed it quite often, sometimes it comes across as rude and uncaring (which we know isn't true) jordan peterson interviewing system is a good one to follow. All the best to you Thomas
@@cammwinchester I got the same vibe too. Especially around 1:08:00. He definitely looked like he zoned out. I hope he sees the critisim and understands we are all big fans and just mean well. Like many here, I love the podcasts too. Unfortunately newcomers to the channel who aren't familiar with him will take it the wrong way most likely.
@@cammwinchester I agree, you should listen rather than just wait for your turn to talk or interupt
He was drawing the pictures about what they were talking about 😂
Never fails. Every video he has to make it about himself with something along the lines of "People are like Thomas isn't a game developer he's a TH-camr". Then goes on a several minute speeches plugging himself with EVERYTHING. Like bro, I usually have no issues with your content and throw your videos up in the background while I do other stuff. But I hear you always pivot to the same talking points EVERY VIDEO. You are so market brained that you probably even aren't aware that YOU are creating this image of yourself as just a salesman.
I get everyone has their own way of doing things and figuring out their own method to the madness of the game development career. I get it, you are completely focused on just networking with others and marketing your programs every time. But you are stretching yourself so far that there's a lack of substance.
I keep up with the gamedev people on TH-cam just as a background filler. So what I say doesn't mean much and I'll just see how things turn out. Twisted Towers release is going to reveal a lot of the approach, so I am interested in the future content based off that.
also dosent help him saying hes a game deveoloper who dosent play games...
like bro you got to play something at least to give you ideas on game mechanics.
@@TheVisualDigitalArts Yeah. I don't understand the mindset of a game dev who doesn't like playing games. It's like a writer who doesn't like reading, an artist who doesn't appreciate art, or a cook who hates food and only eats to survive. I think no game dev will pass a certain threshold unless they play games in the genre they are making their game in. This threshold isn't monetary, but the quality of their game.
It’s crazy how Thomas wants to gatekeep advice when he himself changes his views on game development constantly (even in the same podcast). Not to mention he’s on record for admitting his first play test for Twisted Towers was terrible with feedback being he missed the mark in a lot of areas.
Remember to stay humble or life will do it for you.
Felt like the first half was about Thomas being self-centered and the second half Thomas being distracted and not contributing to the conversation.
Ive started only watching his videos when he has a guest or his dev livestreams because its the onlytime I hear anything different than Thomas just Pitching his Business Ventures.
lame ass comment
It's his new thing now. He's kind of a dick
Eli is literally the best
DUDE LOL
I really admire the focus on building a catalogue of smaller games and understanding your audience. I'm almost certain the kind of gamers that finds his titles legendary probably already played his previous games or other games like it. These are the gamers that will give you a good review. After that it's the hook and good branding that will tie all these games together.
No doubt! Finding and knowing an audience is super important. I appreciate that.
Thomas, I love you and I love your content, and I want to tell you this so you can make better content. I watched your webinar, and you spent most of the video talking about how great you are and promising that you will give the greatest advice, without even reaching to the point or the actual advice, and all of that wasn't not skippable, so I couldn't even move past that. The problem is that all of us know you so you don't need to promise or prov anything or you will end up being the thing you actually fear
28:34 video start
The 23 minute busted ego rant was crazy…
Brooo yeah what the hell
It’s like finding a new niche market for core indies where smaller budgets and revenues can work. Brilliant
Hey Thomas First off, I love your videos. But Im sure you know that game dev is extremely hard to start off when trying to make money and some people will never be able to go full time off of it so its not fair to discredit them for sharing knowledge just because they dont make plenty of money. They still pour in hours of game dev and are just sharing what they learned from many good youtubers like you. Edit: Some more helpful critisicm to help with your podcasts is, try to stay more invested in what the other person is saying instead of just responding with yes and then wanting to say what you want, trust me I struggle with this too. Also why did you say that you don't ask for wishlists and this is just an education channel when you have asked multiple times in other devlogs from before.
Let your guests talk. Love the insights but it's a little painful to get through some times.
Man it’s literally so amazing to see Eli on here, thanks for bringing him on Thomas!! What a legend!!!
Let's goooo!! Thanks dude!!
Sometimes people need to follow bad advice to learn how to filter advice. Failure is life’s greatest teacher.
Wherever there’s money there’s grift. I hope you focus on doing your thing, focusing on positivity and the results will sort themselves out.
If a game dev perhaps make lets say 5-10k € first month and talking about that in videos and educating about the journey from a to b im gonna watch it if i like the channel overall or the ppl working on the channel or if i just want to follow along on their journey because its informational/educational even though they not making a fortune of revenue. Sometimes its useful just to see other who also struggle. I dont know if im "strange" or weird for thinking like this but thats my thoughts on this subject. If there are yt channels that claim things that arent true or get like 1-1000 € first month but talking like they know how to get way way more then i wouldnt follow them or even watch their content.
So much value in this talk. Thank you, Eli and Thomas.
Love it. Would love to sometime be on your podcast. I’m making a Japanese learning game and even though it’s in early access and pretty small, I’m making enough money being married with 3 kids.
It’s pretty insane how you can make money with a great vision, but you need to be able to convey that idea well.
Best
Light
The TH-cam gamedev point is really interesting. I recently got into TH-cam and I can see uncredible people being an issue recently. I'm a believer that if you want to deeply know a topic, you should teach it. This kind of goes to imposter syndrome and fake it till you make it mentality. I see the argument for both sides, people want credible information. But at the same time, gamedevs teaching are good growth to the developer. I don't think there really is a right answer besides the viewer learning how to filter it themselves.
The very famous Thomas Brush's gaze dancing, the do i watch the screen or the camera 📷 😂
Thank you so much T! This conversation has truly opened my mind, i have done some very very useful notes guys wow! tytytyty
You should talk to Adam C Younis, Creator of the Unity powered Pixel Action adventure game, Insignia. He's been working on his game for like 7 years and I think the conversation between you two would be fascinating!
Thomas I appreciate all your concerns and love these videos.
This is a such a weird discussion. Even more after hearing Thomas's promo on "how to make money before finishing your game". His channel and his program is one of the reasons why there are a lot of youtubers sharing their experiences. Everyone has the right to share what they know and their journey... is weird to flex at spends on those who know less, when you make money teaching others.
Yeah, I've seen an explosion of game devs on TH-cam that haven't shipped profitable games and every time I see a new one, my first thought is, "I wonder if this person took Thomas' course on doing TH-cam as a game developer". I think he really needed to focus on the topic with more nuance and with less hurt ego - he's clearly bothered by what some people say and spent too much time in a defensive manner that was kind of off-putting.
Thomas Brush first We would like to say much love to you for what you doing in the Gaming community, this was a great Podcast I really enjoyed Like soo much
His nintendo comment made me think of how I am going about this journey. Cuz Mario, Pokemon, etc they are copies of copies. Same gameplay, different skins. Right? Every new game is the same as before with a few new things.
The game I am making now is like a learning game. It is my first so I want to put enough in where I can copy, paste in the next game but not so much that this takes me forever to make. But even inside this game, I am copy, pasting. The first level I am making has most of the mechanics that the whole game will have. Just with different skins, blocks and whatever will be arranged differently to make the puzzle platforming harder etc but the core is the same. Like I am working on a turret enemy right right now that shoots acorns that hurts you. Well I could reskin it to be a spider that shoots web balls that slow you. 90% the same thing with the look and end result being tweaked. And if you think about what enemies are, they are just obstacles with animations. What is the difference between a boulder rolling around or an armadillo? A wall that pushes you or a big boy that pushes you? They are just traps with personalities. There is a lot of copy, pasting going on in video games.
I hear a lot of advice whether to make a lot of small games or make one big game. But in the end, both give you the knowledge and editable example to work off of for your next game. 1 of Chad's platform games could equal 1 level of Timmy's platform game. The only difference is Chad is throwing it out there more often. But then again if Timmy is throwing out alphas and updates while using patreon or whatever then it is kinda the same thing.
But also a problem with creating small games is people might not play them. I love indie games but there are a lot of indies I don't like the look of or it seems too short or whatever, I won't play them. Angry Penguin is a simple, rage inducing game. Where you go through a very unfair obstacle course. A extremely simple game that I bought cuz it was cheap but lost interest cuz I just got bored. First rule of platformers is make the character fun to play as. I didn't play Only Up cuz it looked boring but I did play the Only Up game with the characters chained together but with friends. So these small games can be easy and quick to make but if they aren't engaging enough then you'll waste as much time as if you made 1 big game. So really there is no guarantee of success with either route. But have their pros and cons.
I guess in the end, the main factors determining which route you go is patience and money. I don't know, that is just what popped in my head at the 36 min marker.
Great conversation!
Interesting to hear the strategy by Tree Fall Studios about building several brands in parallel, keeping the games small, reusing stuff etc ... but it doesn't reflect in sales in Steam either (they are really tiny on all of the games).
Hey at least you won an award 😅😅 worst game award is still an award 💪
LOL well it is certainly one way to go about it 🤣
Man i just love ur podcasts
The Letter is a true classic
only the real ones know
You best podcast so far, hands down.
This video seems very arrogant, specifically calling people "disingenuous" just because they haven't sold as much as you have, or their path is different. Isn't one of the points of TH-cam is to remove the gatekeepers from publishing videos. Who cares if they want the "lifestyle" why do you guys get to determine that? Even if someone hasn't yet shipped, even if its unsuccessful, it's still interesting to see their journey... even if their journey is wrong, maybe they will find out. This video really, really, REALLY seems to be arrogant. AND in a way you are saying "listen to me and buy my stuff"... Some people's stuff isn't fake it's just aspirational. Of course there are scammers, but you guys don't come of as wanting to protect people, you come off as wanna be gatekeepers.
'you don't care about views'? Again doesn't sound like YOU are being truthful.
You can’t talk about what it’s like to be a cat… if you’re not a cats. His point is “if you can’t be successful, don’t tell others how to be.” And that’s a true statement
@@stevenkent5351 my point is that he does not get to define success. If someone else judged him in a similar fashion they could say that he is not a real game developer because he doesn’t play games. His definition of success may not be others.
@@dingosmoov any my response would be that he said “I know their numbers” meaning they arnt able to be profitable in this space, which means you shouldn’t be giving anyone advice on how to be profitable (successful) on the platform. To disagree with that basic concept is to be devoid of logic.
That still does not give him the right to define what success is, or decide what people are actually digesting from other videos. As well as, his videos often offer absolutes that even he himself is later proven to be wrong. Just refer to his videos before his own play tests. Others numbers and their own profitability does not make their videos worthless or that some of their advice may be sound. Just like Thomas’ videos. There may be some good points, but his hypocrisy and arrogance is on full display in this one.
@@dingosmoov it literally does. Don’t misrepresent yourself in a video as “this is the path to success” and then he wouldn’t have a leg to stand on, but people are being disingenuous about their life perspective, so he does. And I’m appreciative of the fact that he’s not naming names but warning us (about what we already know) that there are charlatans in this space giving bad advice.
Interesting statistics in Gamalytic. This guy can make a living with these games and the whole studio has only sold 3k worth of games on steam. Something does not add up or does he get a lot of ad revenue? He needs to make like 30-100x more money on other platforms compared to steam. If that is true, there seems to be a great opportunity to sell games on consoles.
This is correct. I can't give specifics, but your "30-100x" estimation IS what I have made on PlayStation alone. That does not include my sales on Xbox, previous sales on Wii U, or my numbers on Atari VCS. I also have a small Patreon as well to give full picture. And no ad revenue, my TH-cam page has made me like ...$60 bucks LOL. Also for the Steam stuff, the game sales are climbing somewhat, they are over 3k now, BUT Steam is basically my smallest platform lol.
Thanks for the interesting angle. I often wonder why Indies develop a game and then abandon their codebase alltogether. I intend to use the thigns I'm building for a looong time!
Im sure THomas knows a TON of valuable stuff but I can never finish his videos cause he kinda has a big ego..
These are great videos I enjoy watching them.
Hey Thomas!! Commenting here on this video, because it's the most recent, one question that i ever had, i never heard you talking about it, could make a good video, how do you get your sound effects, or how do you make them? Because there is some sites like epidemic sound, but i don't know if their licensing works for games and things like that.
Wishlist comes with creativity!!!!🎨
I personally dislike the game devs that release a new game every few months on console, AAA clocks and hidden object games by same 2 devs flood the eshop and makes me depressed. I have respect if all the assets are theres tho lots of games use AI for these shovel titles.
On the note about inexperienced devs making how to videos is usually because they want to fund their long form game without commute of say a 9-5. So they use a fake it till you make it mentality. Games are very expensive and hard to do just part time. So if they can spend one day a week working on youtube it's a better monitary choice. Does suck how it can teach the wrong things tho
Oh yea hopefully that is not what others thought when listening, that is not the method I was trying to convey at all. Those devs are not even making new games, they are reskinning, and just releasing new bundles/new versions to get back in the new release section on Switch because the Switch has a major visibility problem. Also like you mentioned most of those projects are just AI or asset flips which is quite insane.
Nice gate-keeping guys. Glad you two are the authorities on how to make money. Got it.
This is such a frustrating part of game development, because the "games as business" and "games as high-functioning art and media" seem to mostly be mutually-exclusive markets, which is disappointing for someone who doesn't want to intentionally make shallow, watered-down slop just so it will sell.
I came here to comment on him interrupting the guest and I saw in the comments that this is a common theme….
My dude, take some advice on ThePrimeAgen and let your guests talk. It’s about them NOT you.
This was super interesting!
Who wouldn't want a comfortable life homies.
Wow, the ego really shines through at minute 16. I genuinely enjoy this space, but discrediting other devs just because you’ve made more income? That’s foul, Thomas. Knowing the strategy behind generating income through video games has nothing to do with whether you actually live off it. For example, most % of school or university teachers live off their university paycheck. Should we then understand that the equivalent percentage of teachers and professors who don’t apply their knowledge in real life are failures/scams? I am suspecting your answer revolves around a yes.. if so.. i imagine your course offer a higher probability of success because you’ve been so strategic and luck-free that publishers just happen to love your content and pay you handsomely-especially for the Apple Arcade port, right? It almost sounds like no luck played a part into your mild success! What a dissapointing high horse you're in.
But do you think it's appropriate for someone to share/teach HOW to make full time income from game dev if they have never done it? I do think that if university profs don't have the technical skills they are teaching they shouldn't be teaching them. It's different than teaching Calc or Economics. Creating a business involves technical skills and strategy. It isn't something you can theorize about, you gotta do it. These 2 in the video have done it for years. I'm sure there was some luck but they can continue to do it successfully because they have the skills and strategy to do it. I listen at 2x speed so maybe I didn't hear the ego but it just seems obvious to me that you can't really teach what you haven't done
@@noelpena4567 I see your point about having technical skills, but I'd argue that game development-like any creative or entrepreneurial endeavor-requires more than just those. Strategy and technical execution are crucial, yes, but if you're going to claim that only people who've achieved certain financial milestones are qualified to teach, that's a pretty slippery slope. Would you say someone who’s been creating games for years, refining their craft, learning from their mistakes, but hasn’t made six figures, is automatically less capable of teaching game design than someone who hit it big with one title?
Also, on the topic of business skills, we both know that a huge part of success in games comes from understanding the market, managing teams, timing, and yes, a dash of luck. This isn’t just a linear, skills + strategy = success equation. And even if the two in the video have done it for years, it doesn’t mean their experience is directly transferable to everyone else-different markets, different game types, different circumstances.
What’s troubling here is the idea that you can't respect or learn from someone unless they’ve hit a certain threshold of financial success. If we applied that logic across the board, we'd lose a lot of knowledge. You mentioned professors earlier: the best professors aren’t always the ones making bank from their inventions or discoveries-they're the ones who understand the landscape deeply and can articulate complex ideas effectively. Same goes for game dev.
Also, minimizing the role of luck in success just feels dismissive of reality. Sure, these two are skilled, but no one in our industry-or any industry for that matter-can deny that a few lucky breaks along the way help. I’d say that understanding where luck fits into the equation is just as important as skill and strategy. Ignoring that would be doing a disservice to anyone genuinely trying to learn about game development.
And about the ego thing-you know, ego is a sneaky bastard. It has a way of creeping in and blinding even the most talented people. I get it, when you’ve made it, it’s easy to assume that your formula works for everyone or that you’re on a higher plane than those who haven’t. But honestly, that kind of thinking can bite the best of us. If we forget the roles that things like luck, timing, and even privilege play, we’re doing more than just letting ego take over-we’re risking giving bad advice or, worse, alienating people who are just as passionate but on a different journey. It’s a slippery slope, and I think we all need to be mindful of that.
yeah, people must have and show their results if they want to be believable and want to gain trust from other people!
But except for the cases where nobody likes rhe game, all press is good press. Examples are plenty but it doesnt matter what press concord got because they made all the wrong decisions including not being f2p.
@9:20, I don't mind you guys spend a whole podcast talking about that😂 open a new episode how about that🎉
There is no f diference btw youtube devs. Same all over
it sums up as simple as look at the fruit and not the tree
Es la primera vez que veo un video de este tipo. La verdad me parece un tóxico, como 20 minutos hablando mal de otros canales. Mejor aporta algo y deja a los demás que hagan lo suyo 🫠
el ego que tiene...
this the one…. Thank you
How To Make Money As A Game Dev - sell a course
Game Devs like Marnix from BiteMe Games are the best. Dude developed a pizza game in a month and it sold well. People should watch that channel.
Dude!
DUDE DUDE!
The guys who you think shouldn't be making educational content because of their numbers I imagine is bitme games?
I doubt it, BiteMe are super transparent about numbers, failures, what they learned from their shipped games. They test stuff out themselves and give the community an honest review of what they experienced, all stats and numbers on screen. They give helpful opinions on their community's trailers/steam pages/games that are based on learned knowledge, talks with people, or research... and are often less of a roast than what is expected xD But yeah, if this was aimed at them, which I doubt, that would be really weird
I assumed that too, but they’re also very transparent about their numbers and how much money their games make. So if that’s who Thomas is referring to I disagree
@@Benjamin-di3wm I don't think he ever said the person(s) problem was transparency, just that they are giving advice when really they shouldn't be, and they are who came to mind. I do not have a problem with them but I can see someone taking issue with people giving advice without the success, but maybe its someone else I do not know
@@spitefol5504 He mentioned that the dev(s) he was talking about never really showed results, nor had a launch (which obvs leads to people not having stats or results), which is why I mentioned it in my reply. I just felt it was important to ensure that if someone voices suspicions about whatever dev it may be, some confusion can be cleared up mostly also for other peeps who read these comments and saw the video - it is only normal for people to wanna know more xD It is why in my opinion it would have been better if Thomas had been more vague and generalized it as a situation, or had just been completely open, for the sake of every dev whose name will be thrown in the pot despite them doing good work
@@spitefol5504 I'm pretty sure he's talking about someone else here, our eternal arch nemesis. In the past 2 years, we did ship 2 games at least. -M
I cant even Thomas either do the podcast or look at your phone your attitude and how you are constantly staring at your phone when they are talking and making egotistical comments your content has become unwatchable not to mention at multiple points in the video you are waiting for your turn to talk rather than actually listening to who is speaking if your not already looking at your phone.
FYI Dev talking was great Thomas as always lately was a horrible to watch.
I don't understand why Thomas is getting so much hate in the comments. ☹☹
He is doing great work. Without his videos I wouldn't know half the things and developers that are doing great work like Eli here.
And all the people complaining about his course, Get A Life pls.
15:46 bite me games for sure
If it is, he is wrong. I'm not a big fan of theirs but they are extremely transparent about everything.
@SubzeroBlack68 well that was my first thought. They have put out plenty of videos I would say are questionable in regards to how to succeed at game dev. But maybe I'm wrong I guess but I highly doubt it
@@ryanjdevlin87 How should we improve then? -M
I assumed maybe Sasquatch b studios instead of biteme
Sasquatch came to mind. They quit their jobs
16:00 bitemesisters...