Quite a few comments are getting caught in the spam filter; some of them I see for a moment but then can’t see again as TH-cam deletes them. There was at least one that I thought made a good point, and I wanted to respond, but I think given the subject matter the automod is very active.
It's pretty fucked. Seinfeld dated like a 17 year old when he was in 40s. Like what the fuck? Are we seriously this fucked when it comes to how we allow teenagers, both boys and girls, to be easy prey?
On a practical level McCarthy is dead its not like we are giving him money, or empowering him in any way by continuing to enage with his work. I do think we should continue to read about britt, and she should be incorporated into the way we talk about him.
It’s a characteristic of the young and naive to create fandoms which hinge on the virtues of its chosen idol. Growing up is realizing that genius and the artwork it creates has very little to do with the repugnant nature of the humans it is attached to. Rather the genius exists in spite of the baseness. If you desire for a world that is virtuous, orderly, and pure you should be prepared to be constantly disappointed.
its naive to say works of art have little to do with the repugnancy of human nature. especially when u think of the content in mccarthys novels lol. expecting an artist to be a good person is silly
@@dix0nc0unty The transgressive acts in McCarthy's novels are more severe than 99% of the crimes you'll see in the news today let alone anything he did as a person. You are correct in your last sentence, which only repeats what I already said.
All these and I just started reading Blood Meridian, my first entry into Cormac McCarthy. I'm somewhere near the middle of it so the 2nd half will be such a different experience now. 💀
This is my first time finding your channel. I appreciate your take on this. I find this information about Cormac to be very sad. The Road is one of my very favorite novels and I have considered him one of the best writers.
Pretty much every other famous person in the 60s and 70s was having sex with teenagers, that doesn’t make it right, but it was insanely common. A lot of it was right in the open. As a kid back then you were pretty much on your own in most cases, which of course left you open to a lot of potential predators. When I was a kid my parents had no idea where I was or what I was doing, they let me hang out alone with this random middle aged neighbor guy who totally groomed me and tried to molest me multiple times, he never did, but my sister and I would just kind of laugh about it and tell our friends to be careful with that “weirdo”. I think my parents were totally clueless and we still used him for booze and rides into town. None of that excuses anything these men did, but the world was so different then that when looking at it through our modern lens it definitely distorts things somewhat.
@ how about every rock band and pop singer? Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Rod Stewart, Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, Mick Jagger too many to name. Some of the most famous groupies on the scene were literally 14 years old. I mean, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis were notorious in the 50s for that shit, Chuck Berry was pimping underage girls. It’s STILL a huge part of the music industry! Hollywood is probably even worse. The first one off the dome is Ryan O’Neil fucking Melanie Griffith when she was 15, there are TONS of stories like that
Adult men over 30 were commonly marrying teenage women going back 1000's of years. At least they could prosecute and imprison criminals, unlike much of the female run judicial system we have now. You cannot "mother" these people.
Consent by Jill Cement is a memoir I read this year that reflects on an ‘affair’ (as the author puts it) that began in the 70s between a teenager, Jill, and her 47 year old art instructor, Arnold. Eventually they marry and remain together for nearly 50 years, during which time he catches a second chance at success and relevancy in the fine arts world. She is his student, muse, wife, and final caretaker. I didn’t love the writing of the memoir, but it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Vanity Fair headline. It’s jarring to hear from adult (elderly) women who seem not to hate the men who pursued illicit ‘relationships’ (once again, in their words of these women) with their teenage selves. It provides perspective but not necessarily answers.
I really, really think that people engaged with this case should read Consent by Vanessa Springora. It's a memoir about the author Springora's relationship with a famous author when he was in his 40s and she was 14. It made me physically ill and it is very graphic, but I would definitely say it has been my favourite read of the year.
“With the power of the written word, he turned his "little V." into an unstable teenage girl eaten up with jealousy. He said whatever he wanted; I was just a character now, living on borrowed time, like every other girl who'd come before me. It wouldn't be long before he erased me completely from the pages of his wretched diary. For his readers, it was merely a story, words. For me, it was the beginning of a breakdown.”
The article tries to tow the line between scandal and romance but leans in heavily to the romance in order to prime readers for future projects with Augusta, and a ton McCarthy material being releases in 2025. The article is also full of errors, maybe for a narrative purpose, but it does not sit well with those who are familiar with McCarthy's books. The book she mentioned to be reading when she met him DID NOT have a photograph of McCarthy in the back. Not to mention the low probability of actually having that book, ( >6K copies). so on and so on.
Great video, I like the format of just rambling. Sometimes I feel like honest opinions, especially sort of first reactions to situations like this, come across clearer when its off the cuff. What you've said has definitely changed my view on this. My initial reaction to these sorts of things has almost always been putting the art and artist in completely separate boxes, because that way it's easier to understand enjoying the work and taking deep meaning from it. But like you said, you can't exactly do that because this stuff is inside the work. One thing that becomes clear when you do any sort of research into how a piece of art was created is that the story of the creation itself is not only usually very interesting, but it also often enriches the work. Coming to understand an authors beliefs, influences, and experiences reveals a lot about the formation of the story and the personal connection to it, and when those influences and experiences are positive its very easy to point to them and say "wow, this makes it even better!" I think the same idea applies when the situation is more uncomfortable, immoral even, and hard to digest. I think you'd be hard pressed to say this knowledge doesn't, in some way, add to the complexity of his works whether for better or worse. Its just harder to accept that truth. That was the initial issue I had. It was hard to reconcile that fact. Its easier and more convenient to detach the art from the artist, but really having the perspective that it should be easy to understand this deeply personal human expression is kinda like copping out. I doubt McCarthy fully understood what he was writing about, had he understood completely I doubt - regardless of personal connection to this girl - these aspects would routinely reappear in his writing. He was grappling with it in his own way. For better or worse, take things as they are regardless of how difficult they are to understand.
Was thinking just yesterday that people we admire are bound to disappoint (at the very least). Wondered how long it would be until the next revelation; didn't take long. I didn't (don't) know lots about him as a person, so I don't know much it will affect things for me. Haven't read any of his books yet, so my experiences of them will all be post-reveal.
Good video with good points. Was also wanting to hear more about her too. However I highly doubt she will come forward with more considering how much this backfired from her original intent.
I guess this is the second time I have heard about this, the first on Write Conscious, I right in the middle of Suttree and I am still going to continue. I first began reading McCarthy in the 90s when all the pretty horses came out, back then there was very little information on him, he gave no interviews, I supposed he was a writer like Delillo, Pynchon, Gaddis, and Salinger who let their work speak for themselves. Their art took center stage to their personal lives, as I also guessed back then. So, I guess the challenge is to approach the work with new eyes and go from there. As writers die I suppose a lot more monsters will reveal themselves.
That there was no author photo in the edition of the book she was reading is not an insignificant detail, it changes the entire complexion of the relationship from fan having a chance meeting with an author which develops into a more serious relationship to what it likely was: a predator seeking out underage girls.
That happened 50 years ago and it seems like Augusta is in peace with whatever came out of that relationship. TBH, I'd worry more about Epstein's link to the Santa Fe institute and all the "geniuses" involved with that guy.
Really has to be said that the article is atrocious. Complete wrong tone + a lot of embarrassing faux McCarthy purple prose. “He reads like he’s really trying,” isn’t good enough.
Yeah, comes up in physics too (Erwin Schrodinger, of equation and cat fame, had a relationship - albeit, FWIW, one which never progressed beyond "cuddling" AFAIK - with a teenage girl and another German 'H', Werner Heisenberg, though _not_ a Nazi, famously worked on the Nazi atomic program, the upsides of which being a) he failed and b) at least one pretty decent play :). And of course NASA was essentially founded by people like Werner von Braun - who _was_ a Nazi - using experience he'd acquired building rockets to rain down on the civilians of my own country during WWII. Arguably different because we expect less of their life to inform their work so it _should_ be easier to separate but still, the same lesson about not _idolising_ strangers for their achievements. (as to McCarthy himself, my answer to the question "Can you separate the artist from their art ?" is usually "I'll find out when I try" i.e. next time I read one of his books, if it overshadows everything and means I can't just enjoy it as a novel _then_ i'll have my answer)
Our sensitivity to age disparity in relationships, particularly older men and younger women, is relatively new. Until recently, it was not at all uncommon for men to marry women young enough to be their children; for men to seal a business deal with a marriage between a young daughter and a widowed friend. The amorous career of Salinger is at least as creepy. On and on. I’ve never, however, had the sense that McCarthy understood the first thing about women; nor was he free of our culture’s reflexive sexism and ageism. This is a much larger problem. And I’m one of those six people, I guess. McCarthy is superficially impressive, but, I think, hugely overrated. And I have thought that for years.
Love the way you articulate the relationship between creative output and the artist's personal life, warts and all. Another example--although not a moral one--would be Dostoevsky. You can read The Brothers Karamazov and get a lot out of it from the page itself, but the *entire* book changes when you learn that Dostoevsky had lost his young son before writing it. The son shared a first name with the protagonist--Alexei. The entire book reads differently when you put that into perspective.
Appreciate your view's on this situation Jared. Its really a shame when people want to make every issue a black and white conflict. Someone can be terrible or have done terrible things yet still said or created something of value to explore. Perhaps there's just a subset of people or personalities that are unable to separate the creator from the work, or cannot view the work through a new more enlightened lens when new understanding of the person comes to light? I just don't think that warrants mass eviction of the creators works from the zeitgeist. Let it be the lesson that people keep having to learn. People can be terrible! Just because they made a piece of media or art or expressed some thought provoking ideas to you, doesn't mean they somehow are faultless. The more troubling truth might be that sometimes those faults might have helped lead to the works in the first place?
Well, I'm the only reader who will continue to read and enjoy his work, I guess. I was also groomed as a young girl by a much older man who was also a priest. The whole thing was scandalous in my small town. These things are complicated and messy. I am a voracious reader, and most of my favorite writers, musicians etc are not good people, ok? Don't we all understand that darkness often produces the only art worth consuming? Not always, of course, but the fact remains. Besides, why are people surprised by this news? He writes dark sh*t and so under that hood, so to speak, you know there is a great darkness. But though many of us have very dark tendencies and thoughts, 99.999% of us can't use our yuck as fuel to create masterpieces that will span generations. I personally bet none of our heroes are squeaky clean, not by a long shot. Keep people off of pedestals, and you can still enjoy what they've created without falling apart when we find out our heroes are flawed, much like every human is.
Pedophilia and rape isn't complicated and messy, the fact that we have a justice system that does nothing to actually punish these people is what is complicated and messy. The courts judges and lawyers and how people all work in concert to hide all of this from teachers, schools, school districts and so on...
My thoughts so far have been "How much money can I get for my First Editions?" and "This sucks". I know saying it now doesn't mean much but after reading Lonesome Dove I started to hate Blood Meridian, which used to be my favorite western. Blood Meridian just felt gratuitous and cheap in a way that Lonesome Dove didn't(while covering a lot of the same territory thematically and geographically). Maybe that was McCarthy's intent as a way of killing the glorification of the west but I feel like Lonesome Dove does the same thing with a better story. I don't know anymore. I need to dwell on this in an unhealthy way when I have the time 😂.
In Germany the relationship would have probably been legal, even today. The ethical question then would rather be: Did McCarthy act morally wrong in the sense that he used the power imbalance? As far as I got it, for her the problems started when he wrote about her. Here, I see a problem. I think this might even be the most problematic aspect. However, if you have a problem with this kind of behaviour of writers, you should not read someone like Knausgaard, for example. There is constant misbehaviour how writers treat their private relationship (to parents, children, lovers etc.) because they use it for their art. From this point of view, a lot of art is highly problematic, but we do not often talk about it.
Edgar Degas (French Impressionism) was extremely antisemetic, especially after the Dryfus Affair. He was an unlikeable person, by all accounts. I still love his paintings.
This comment section is extremely disappointing, but not surprising. I will continue to do my best to consider such works on their own merit, I believe in death of the author, but to say that major stuff like this has NO bearing on the art in question AT ALL is so so so so so naive
So Cormac waited to have a relationship until after the age of consent, offered to marry her, and the supposed “victim” in her old age regrets nothing, and highly admires him. Im supposed to think this is a giant black mark on his reputation why?
i am glad you did this i didn’t know what to make of this news i mean its bad but i haven’t really digested it yet. reminds me of like troubled comedians or musicians like jimmy page for example. and its sad there are so many examples. anyway for now thx for your thoughts.
So, along with Alice Munro and Neil Gaiman (even if still allegations), this is proving to be an awful year as regards favourite/respected authors. TBH I always found McCarthy rather smug and full of his own self importance, so this doesn't surprise me...and what's just as disturbing is how the article tries to romanticize grooming. Yuck.
@@LaFou06At least two women have accused Gaimen of sexual assault. One was a fan and the other was working for him as a nanny and I believe he admitted to having sexual relations with them but insisted it was consensual
Quite different from any other cases. Here the victim is coming forward not to harm someone's reputation but to save it. McCarthy isn't accused of anything. She loves and admires him and they had a lifelong friendship. She knows the papers will be made public and wants to explain the situation beforehand.
@@MrStrakmudflapIt most likely was consensual and it's just a bunch of women who want the world to feel sorry for them because they decided to be sleazy.
@@LaFou06 Honestly, the Gaiman accusations just read like clumsy courtship. One claimed he abruptly kissed a woman while they were chatting alone in a flat. The terror.
Here's my take. People who have been victimized by grooming often don't want their victimization to be revealed and aired out because what has to happen before you are victimized this way is that you have to be fooled by your victimizer. Nobody wants to admit to being fooled because it means you have been a fool. This lady was approached by others with a serious mind set and she rejected them because they would have kept a certain distance from her and called what happened to her victimization and written it up that way. She deliberately picked Vincenzo Barney because of his 'gonzo' qualities. I.e., making himself part of the story by being with her and befriending her before interviewing her and going along with her own view of herself as having some agency in what went on between her and McCarthy. She wanted herself to be seen as having mastery of the situation and not to be seen as a fooled victim. I'm not being pejorative by using the word 'gonzo.' Gonzo was the "New journalism" of the 1970's where it was thought that truth would be better served by the journalist making him or herself part of the story by participating in the story. But a young writer can some times confuse 'gonzo' journalism with bad journalism.
Thanks for this. I've only read a couple McCarthy novels and all within the last year, so I'll be processing and reassessing a bit as well. Over the last several years though, it's felt like every time I finish such a stage, something else comes out about another writer who has influenced me, so I'm constantly in a flux of rethinking, seeking justice, and rebuilding. Now, the temptation is to numb myself to it all, and I'm doing my best to not fall prey to that
I'm certainly not a McCarthy scholar or even a "huge" fan, but my literary journey begun 2 years ago after reading The Road. After that I read a few of his other novels which really inspired me to delve deep into world literature. With that being said, this news is genuinely sad, I consider him to be one of my personal favorite authors, and even though i've moved away from his work recently it still sucks. I still hope to read through his remaining work, but similar to you idk what it will look like for me when reaching his female characters on the page (who already don't get portrayed properly in my opinion) Overall just sad news for American letters and we'll have to see what the fallout is in the coming years.
DFW is another celebrated writer who is basically a documented creep. Essentially stalked this poor woman for years and no one really knew until after he self deleted. It's a shame how many great artists seem to have either be straight up pieces of shit or had some sort of skeleton in the closet.
I hate hearing this, but still... If Britt herself maintains that it wasn't predatory then I don't think it should matter. If a friend of mine had sex with someone that much younger it would disturb me and I might stop hanging out with them, but when I was in my teens I was on the younger side of such relationships and I don't hate or think anything bad about my at-the-time-partner for it. 16 is the legal age in most jurisdictions after all. Yeah I don't know, I'm not trying to cope about this just because of how much I love McCarthy as a writer, but maybe I am.... Hope you all take care of yourselves.
Some people infantilise older teenagers a lot. I would say that her age was the least problem in that relationship. What about the part where he immediately proceeded to violate her trust by hiding that he's married and that he has a son? Also, this whole thing with chat GTPing her life into his books?
I don't think it's all that bad. People seem to be reacting like he held her down and raped her. It may not have been right but two messed up people colliding and having a relationship that out of the norm isn't unheard of. I still hear Michael Jackson on the radio all the time and what he did was far, far worse IMO.
alot of criminals:Jerry Lee Lewis (1935-2022)Inappropriate Relationship: Married his 13-year-old cousin, Myra Gale Brown, in 1957 when he was 22. Pablo Picasso (1881-1973) Inappropriate Relationships: Had several relationships with younger women, including a relationship with 17-year-old Marie-Thérèse Walter when he was 45. Elvis Presley (1935-1977)Inappropriate Relationship: Had a highly publicized romantic relationship with Priscilla Beaulieu, who was 14 when they met, while he was 24. They married when she was 21.
Picasso and a 17-year-old was perfectly legal in his society, and for that matter, considered perfectly appropriate. You're casting backward, with current eyes, seeing what isn't there.
Try Bohumil Hrabal, one of the most respected Czech authors of the 20th century, he seemed like quite a decent guy, despite a few controversies because he didn't want to be an explicitly political author during the communist period of the Czech Republic (despite satirizing many aspects of life in communism). Too loud a solitude is an absolute masterpiece.
he is not cancelled if you decide is not and you read him. Don't let anybody tell you what to read based on their own moral. Pretending to be virtuous is the new sport in town
I havent read it yet but hasnt Hrabal described his mass culling of cats in "All my cats"? I am sure that also warrants a cancellation in todays time. But I would be surprised if Hrabal is on the mind of anybody who engages in social media cancellation. I am trying to get my Czech to a level that I can read more of him because you are right " Too loud a solitude is very impressive. @@PatataSimbolica
Tried to read No Country and could not even make it through the first few chapters, it was just awful. So never bothered with this guys books. It is ALWAYS a mistake to put other human beings on Pedestals. Always!
While disturbing and disappointing, I'm not going to stop reading McCarthy because of it. Or watching Chinatown because of Polanski, reading Sandman because of Gaiman, watching The Usual Suspects because of Spacey....or every movie produced by Weinstein. You get the idea.
Those aren’t the same. There is a difference between an artist passing away and reevaluating their work and supporting someone still engaging in unjustifiable behaviors and profiting off of it.
@@QuestionsIAskMyselfIt may or may not be the same. He didn't say he'd purchase Sandman or borrow them from a library. By pirating them, it will be the same.
I agree with your examples, but also submit one where I just cannot separate the art from the artist (unfortunately, because the movie is fucking dope): The Professional. I am not able to focus on the movie anymore without thinking about Besson and his background during any scene with Mathilda on the screen.
I'm grateful for your videos. I think that Cormac McCarthy dislikers were dismissed, taken as unserious; it's not that they don't exist, it's that they were invisible. I do love me some Ezra Pound.
It does not make any difference about the quality of his novels whatsoever. And if there is a philosophy in his books it either is interesting and makes sense or it doesn't - again this is completely independent from how he led his life. If we would find out something bad about the person Einstein the theory of relativity would nevertheless stay true if it is true.
Really really wild piece. Difficult for me to really decide what to think on this. This Vincenzo guy does seem to be doing McCarthy pastiche which was off-kilter and annoying. Strange, strange piece. Were his actions okay? Absolutely not, but don’t know how to assess this story completely. Also, saying Pound was “pretty bad” is humorous.
The woman, Augusta Brett, is now 64 years old. I repeat: 64. She obviously had some time to think about it and how SHE thinks about it from an experienced adult perspective. It seems to me many people are not ready to accept the judgment of a 64 year old woman on her earlier self. I find the way she talks about her relationship nuanced and it feels honest to me. I think the article may be wrong in some aspects, but the author cites her a lot, and the quotes give a strong impression how she thinks about it.
Life, the world, and history are messy because they are real. Why do we want our characters flawed? Why do we need to see change in them? But when it happens in real life, the one the art was imitating in the first place, we suddenly reject it? Not making excuses for McCarthy, not condoning it, but what he did IS a part of who he is and without it we don't have his body of work. Whether she was a muse in the traditional sense or she was just a dirty secret to him, It's what was needed. All good creatives have trauma. Doesn't matter the medium, there is always dark side adding the missing piece. This is true in all forms of art.
Edgar Allen Poe married a 13 year old. Was that enough to ruin him to where we do not read his works? No. It is unfortunate McCarthy thought this was appropriate but it doesn't invalidate his works. For sure it is something to keep in mind if you choose to read him, just like Poe, but a work is a work and if it inspires thought and endures well that is what it does. Unfortunately McCarthy was not man enough to admit any of this during his lifetime and his muse did not want to ruin him while he was alive, but at least we got the truth eventually to put his work into context in another way. He was a good writer and unfortunately also an abuser. It is what it is.
Ultimately it's up to each person whether they're comfortable consuming the art of problematic people, but I do think Jared makes a good point about McCarthy's infatuation with this young girl appearing in his work; that, for me (and I think for a lot of others), makes the difference between him and Poe.
@@elainafaust3717 The "problem" is seeing people as problematic or not....show me someone who isnt problematic, a single human beaing I mean......she wasnt 4, she was 16, stfu already....
@@Lacostanico I think it's only fair for people to be disturbed by this. Having sexual relations with someone under 18 when you're an adult isn't just some social faux pas. It's literally A CRIME in most countries. And yet McCarthy still went ahead and engaged in said relations, fully knowing what the action means. I'm not saying this makes him some unforgivably evil person. But I totally understand why most people are disturbed and disgusted by this.
Every time this happens suddenly people are running around thinking their heads are on fire, and _How can the world be this way?!_ as if the history of humanity isn't the history of people diddling one another inappropriately. Next tell me how you're shocked that rich people embezzled and how astonishing it is that unchecked power led to corruption. Each time it's somehow 'new' and yet countless in the telling, the story of who we are, our desiring, lustful species.
This is ridiculous. Like c’mon. You are navel-gazing to excuse pedophiles. It’s not human nature. Why is it anytime someone resorts to this fallacy it’s always to defend depraved behaviors that no source actually backs.
We have become such a judgmental and smugly self-righteous culture, to reduce a clearly meaningful, life-long relationship into "He groomed her! For shame". Good lord people. Human relationships are not a cartoon. LIfe is more nuanced than that. She says herself, "He saved my life." I think you all should listen to the wisdom of our times and believe women.
@@crystalross7943 yes, this abused woman clearly doesn’t know what was best for her over the course of an entire lifetime, but you do, person who only learned about this within the last few days
@@crystalross7943 Agreed. This poor woman doesn't even understand that she was abused, after an entire lifetime of reflection. Thankfully we do, people who only learned about it two days ago.
When did we become so self-righteous over grown men hooking up with teenage chicks? This stuff was commonplace for decades, both among celebrities and regular people alike.
Great art almost always comes from deeply flawed individuals who dealt with dark impulses. I don’t care what the morality police has to say about it. These same people have their own dark impulses.
Without venturing an opinion on where great art comes from, it should be observered that "having", "dealing with" and "giving effect to" dark impulses are all very different things.
relatedly, Michael Jackson’s work feels totally inextricable from his crimes against children. Leaving Neverland is a great film, in part because it hammers this point home so clearly and carefully
He should have done like Stephen King and cleaned up his mess and be one of those many rich fake nice guys who have this aura of being a pdfile but still no one talks about.
Bwahahah. "Rich fake nice guys who have this aura of being a pdfile " is such an accurate read of Stephen King 😂 Honestly, though, I genuinely think King is in the clear. I think Tabitha and his kids (but mainly Tabitha) are what kept him from going off the rails. Still keeping my fingers crossed, though. You never know what's gonna come out someday!🤞
so fed up with all the new puritan this day who judge everything from their POV of today on thing from the past. She said she didn't think it was abusive or predatory. But of course, the medias will do it. Because destroy with a good story is more important than her at the end.
1. Just because it is legal doesn’t mean it’s not gross. 2. By taking Britt out of the country when she was 16, and without her parents’ permission, he was committing kidnapping. This is why federal law enforcement were investigating him. 3. McCarthy knew he was breaking the law, hence why he forged Britt’s birth certificate to take her into Mexico.
@@brainiac138On (1) It is legal because there is an ethical assumption that people with the age of 16 can make important decisions on their own life. I agree wih this assumption although one should have a closer look. Therefore (2) I do not assume this to be kidnapping. (3) is evident, but there is a difference between conscience and knowing that you break the law.
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Quite a few comments are getting caught in the spam filter; some of them I see for a moment but then can’t see again as TH-cam deletes them. There was at least one that I thought made a good point, and I wanted to respond, but I think given the subject matter the automod is very active.
You can't have a relationship with a minor, it is rape and pedophilia.
This is why we use proper punctuation people
Lol
If it's a famous writer, it's a muse. However, if the writer isn't famous it's just statutory rape.
It's pretty fucked. Seinfeld dated like a 17 year old when he was in 40s. Like what the fuck? Are we seriously this fucked when it comes to how we allow teenagers, both boys and girls, to be easy prey?
You can't have a relationship with a minor, it is rape and pedophilia.
On a practical level McCarthy is dead its not like we are giving him money, or empowering him in any way by continuing to enage with his work. I do think we should continue to read about britt, and she should be incorporated into the way we talk about him.
any royalties will still be going to his estate, no?
@@elixir8417 His estate is not a person.
It’s a characteristic of the young and naive to create fandoms which hinge on the virtues of its chosen idol. Growing up is realizing that genius and the artwork it creates has very little to do with the repugnant nature of the humans it is attached to. Rather the genius exists in spite of the baseness. If you desire for a world that is virtuous, orderly, and pure you should be prepared to be constantly disappointed.
Thanks I needed to read this!
You sound like a community college intellectual.😂
@ Ok. What does that mean to you, good take, bad take, neither?
its naive to say works of art have little to do with the repugnancy of human nature. especially when u think of the content in mccarthys novels lol. expecting an artist to be a good person is silly
@@dix0nc0unty The transgressive acts in McCarthy's novels are more severe than 99% of the crimes you'll see in the news today let alone anything he did as a person. You are correct in your last sentence, which only repeats what I already said.
That first sentence in Blood Meridian really do be hitting different now.
What is it?
@@crystalross7943"See the child."
@electrictwilight Oh. You're right. Thanks.
You’re reaching too far with that one.
Gimmie a break...
All these and I just started reading Blood Meridian, my first entry into Cormac McCarthy. I'm somewhere near the middle of it so the 2nd half will be such a different experience now. 💀
This is my first time finding your channel. I appreciate your take on this. I find this information about Cormac to be very sad. The Road is one of my very favorite novels and I have considered him one of the best writers.
Pretty much every other famous person in the 60s and 70s was having sex with teenagers, that doesn’t make it right, but it was insanely common. A lot of it was right in the open. As a kid back then you were pretty much on your own in most cases, which of course left you open to a lot of potential predators. When I was a kid my parents had no idea where I was or what I was doing, they let me hang out alone with this random middle aged neighbor guy who totally groomed me and tried to molest me multiple times, he never did, but my sister and I would just kind of laugh about it and tell our friends to be careful with that “weirdo”. I think my parents were totally clueless and we still used him for booze and rides into town. None of that excuses anything these men did, but the world was so different then that when looking at it through our modern lens it definitely distorts things somewhat.
Besides Woody Allen and Roman Pulaski what other "famous person" are you talking about?
A little too much cap.
@ how about every rock band and pop singer? Jimmy Page, David Bowie, Rod Stewart, Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, Mick Jagger too many to name. Some of the most famous groupies on the scene were literally 14 years old. I mean, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis were notorious in the 50s for that shit, Chuck Berry was pimping underage girls. It’s STILL a huge part of the music industry! Hollywood is probably even worse. The first one off the dome is Ryan O’Neil fucking Melanie Griffith when she was 15, there are TONS of stories like that
Adult men over 30 were commonly marrying teenage women going back 1000's of years. At least they could prosecute and imprison criminals, unlike much of the female run judicial system we have now. You cannot "mother" these people.
@@stephencarter7266 David Bowie and Jimmy Page are infamous for their relationships with minors
Consent by Jill Cement is a memoir I read this year that reflects on an ‘affair’ (as the author puts it) that began in the 70s between a teenager, Jill, and her 47 year old art instructor, Arnold. Eventually they marry and remain together for nearly 50 years, during which time he catches a second chance at success and relevancy in the fine arts world. She is his student, muse, wife, and final caretaker.
I didn’t love the writing of the memoir, but it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Vanity Fair headline. It’s jarring to hear from adult (elderly) women who seem not to hate the men who pursued illicit ‘relationships’ (once again, in their words of these women) with their teenage selves. It provides perspective but not necessarily answers.
I really, really think that people engaged with this case should read Consent by Vanessa Springora. It's a memoir about the author Springora's relationship with a famous author when he was in his 40s and she was 14. It made me physically ill and it is very graphic, but I would definitely say it has been my favourite read of the year.
“With the power of the written word, he turned his "little V." into an unstable teenage girl eaten up with jealousy. He said whatever he wanted; I was just a character now, living on borrowed time, like every other girl who'd come before me. It wouldn't be long before he erased me completely from the pages of his wretched diary. For his readers, it was merely a story, words. For me, it was the beginning of a breakdown.”
Thanks for this.
The article tries to tow the line between scandal and romance but leans in heavily to the romance in order to prime readers for future projects with Augusta, and a ton McCarthy material being releases in 2025. The article is also full of errors, maybe for a narrative purpose, but it does not sit well with those who are familiar with McCarthy's books. The book she mentioned to be reading when she met him DID NOT have a photograph of McCarthy in the back. Not to mention the low probability of actually having that book, ( >6K copies). so on and so on.
@@rickysrockinreviews Shout out to Write Conscious ;-)
What’s being released next year?
Great video, I like the format of just rambling. Sometimes I feel like honest opinions, especially sort of first reactions to situations like this, come across clearer when its off the cuff. What you've said has definitely changed my view on this. My initial reaction to these sorts of things has almost always been putting the art and artist in completely separate boxes, because that way it's easier to understand enjoying the work and taking deep meaning from it. But like you said, you can't exactly do that because this stuff is inside the work.
One thing that becomes clear when you do any sort of research into how a piece of art was created is that the story of the creation itself is not only usually very interesting, but it also often enriches the work. Coming to understand an authors beliefs, influences, and experiences reveals a lot about the formation of the story and the personal connection to it, and when those influences and experiences are positive its very easy to point to them and say "wow, this makes it even better!" I think the same idea applies when the situation is more uncomfortable, immoral even, and hard to digest. I think you'd be hard pressed to say this knowledge doesn't, in some way, add to the complexity of his works whether for better or worse. Its just harder to accept that truth.
That was the initial issue I had. It was hard to reconcile that fact. Its easier and more convenient to detach the art from the artist, but really having the perspective that it should be easy to understand this deeply personal human expression is kinda like copping out. I doubt McCarthy fully understood what he was writing about, had he understood completely I doubt - regardless of personal connection to this girl - these aspects would routinely reappear in his writing. He was grappling with it in his own way.
For better or worse, take things as they are regardless of how difficult they are to understand.
I should have known better than reading the comments in here, especially the ones further down.
Was thinking just yesterday that people we admire are bound to disappoint (at the very least). Wondered how long it would be until the next revelation; didn't take long. I didn't (don't) know lots about him as a person, so I don't know much it will affect things for me. Haven't read any of his books yet, so my experiences of them will all be post-reveal.
Yep, I'm with you. It's definitely going to change how I read if I ever do get around to reading one of his books
Makes perfect sense to shelve the video for further research. Sounds like a lot more information will come out as it relates to his works
Good video with good points. Was also wanting to hear more about her too. However I highly doubt she will come forward with more considering how much this backfired from her original intent.
I guess this is the second time I have heard about this, the first on Write Conscious, I right in the middle of Suttree and I am still going to continue. I first began reading McCarthy in the 90s when all the pretty horses came out, back then there was very little information on him, he gave no interviews, I supposed he was a writer like Delillo, Pynchon, Gaddis, and Salinger who let their work speak for themselves. Their art took center stage to their personal lives, as I also guessed back then. So, I guess the challenge is to approach the work with new eyes and go from there. As writers die I suppose a lot more monsters will reveal themselves.
That there was no author photo in the edition of the book she was reading is not an insignificant detail, it changes the entire complexion of the relationship from fan having a chance meeting with an author which develops into a more serious relationship to what it likely was: a predator seeking out underage girls.
Thanks for the take! I never read Cormac McCarthy before I don't k,now what to make of this
That happened 50 years ago and it seems like Augusta is in peace with whatever came out of that relationship. TBH, I'd worry more about Epstein's link to the Santa Fe institute and all the "geniuses" involved with that guy.
Fortunately, we can denounce both of those issues! A BOGO of gross “genius” men
Really has to be said that the article is atrocious. Complete wrong tone + a lot of embarrassing faux McCarthy purple prose. “He reads like he’s really trying,” isn’t good enough.
I gave that article 5 or 6 paragraphs before I gave up on it and wound up here lol
Well said. Thank you for making this
Yeah, comes up in physics too (Erwin Schrodinger, of equation and cat fame, had a relationship - albeit, FWIW, one which never progressed beyond "cuddling" AFAIK - with a teenage girl and another German 'H', Werner Heisenberg, though _not_ a Nazi, famously worked on the Nazi atomic program, the upsides of which being a) he failed and b) at least one pretty decent play :). And of course NASA was essentially founded by people like Werner von Braun - who _was_ a Nazi - using experience he'd acquired building rockets to rain down on the civilians of my own country during WWII.
Arguably different because we expect less of their life to inform their work so it _should_ be easier to separate but still, the same lesson about not _idolising_ strangers for their achievements.
(as to McCarthy himself, my answer to the question "Can you separate the artist from their art ?" is usually "I'll find out when I try" i.e. next time I read one of his books, if it overshadows everything and means I can't just enjoy it as a novel _then_ i'll have my answer)
Our sensitivity to age disparity in relationships, particularly older men and younger women, is relatively new. Until recently, it was not at all uncommon for men to marry women young enough to be their children; for men to seal a business deal with a marriage between a young daughter and a widowed friend. The amorous career of Salinger is at least as creepy. On and on. I’ve never, however, had the sense that McCarthy understood the first thing about women; nor was he free of our culture’s reflexive sexism and ageism. This is a much larger problem.
And I’m one of those six people, I guess. McCarthy is superficially impressive, but, I think, hugely overrated. And I have thought that for years.
Love the way you articulate the relationship between creative output and the artist's personal life, warts and all. Another example--although not a moral one--would be Dostoevsky. You can read The Brothers Karamazov and get a lot out of it from the page itself, but the *entire* book changes when you learn that Dostoevsky had lost his young son before writing it. The son shared a first name with the protagonist--Alexei. The entire book reads differently when you put that into perspective.
Appreciate your view's on this situation Jared. Its really a shame when people want to make every issue a black and white conflict. Someone can be terrible or have done terrible things yet still said or created something of value to explore. Perhaps there's just a subset of people or personalities that are unable to separate the creator from the work, or cannot view the work through a new more enlightened lens when new understanding of the person comes to light? I just don't think that warrants mass eviction of the creators works from the zeitgeist. Let it be the lesson that people keep having to learn. People can be terrible! Just because they made a piece of media or art or expressed some thought provoking ideas to you, doesn't mean they somehow are faultless. The more troubling truth might be that sometimes those faults might have helped lead to the works in the first place?
There's a new Celine novel out !
the main change it will make is that most people read the works as the devil inside the world, but he was writing about the devil inside himself
McCarthy told us exactly who he was in his semi-autobiographical Suttree: A depraved genius.
Well, I'm the only reader who will continue to read and enjoy his work, I guess. I was also groomed as a young girl by a much older man who was also a priest. The whole thing was scandalous in my small town. These things are complicated and messy. I am a voracious reader, and most of my favorite writers, musicians etc are not good people, ok? Don't we all understand that darkness often produces the only art worth consuming? Not always, of course, but the fact remains.
Besides, why are people surprised by this news? He writes dark sh*t and so under that hood, so to speak, you know there is a great darkness. But though many of us have very dark tendencies and thoughts, 99.999% of us can't use our yuck as fuel to create masterpieces that will span generations. I personally bet none of our heroes are squeaky clean, not by a long shot. Keep people off of pedestals, and you can still enjoy what they've created without falling apart when we find out our heroes are flawed, much like every human is.
Pedophilia and rape isn't complicated and messy, the fact that we have a justice system that does nothing to actually punish these people is what is complicated and messy. The courts judges and lawyers and how people all work in concert to hide all of this from teachers, schools, school districts and so on...
Let’s not pretend that creepy predatory older men are just making human mistakes. Come now. Let’s be real.
@@mads597 the extreme majority is even creepier honestly.
My thoughts so far have been "How much money can I get for my First Editions?" and "This sucks".
I know saying it now doesn't mean much but after reading Lonesome Dove I started to hate Blood Meridian, which used to be my favorite western. Blood Meridian just felt gratuitous and cheap in a way that Lonesome Dove didn't(while covering a lot of the same territory thematically and geographically). Maybe that was McCarthy's intent as a way of killing the glorification of the west but I feel like Lonesome Dove does the same thing with a better story.
I don't know anymore. I need to dwell on this in an unhealthy way when I have the time 😂.
In Germany the relationship would have probably been legal, even today. The ethical question then would rather be: Did McCarthy act morally wrong in the sense that he used the power imbalance? As far as I got it, for her the problems started when he wrote about her. Here, I see a problem. I think this might even be the most problematic aspect. However, if you have a problem with this kind of behaviour of writers, you should not read someone like Knausgaard, for example. There is constant misbehaviour how writers treat their private relationship (to parents, children, lovers etc.) because they use it for their art. From this point of view, a lot of art is highly problematic, but we do not often talk about it.
I explicitly say that this doesn't prevent me from reading McCarthy; the same would go for Knausgaard.
@@jaredplus Thank you for your answer! I did not implicate you said it. I just think this aspect of power abuse by writers is often neglected.
@@ngogol1748 Yes, sorry if I misunderstood. (I'm admittedly a bit defensive, as I've been mischaracterized several times since I released this video!)
@@jaredplus No problem. I am no native speaker, so I may have expressed myself misleadingly.
Edgar Degas (French Impressionism) was extremely antisemetic, especially after the Dryfus Affair. He was an unlikeable person, by all accounts. I still love his paintings.
and gauguin was quite the pdf file
This comment section is extremely disappointing, but not surprising. I will continue to do my best to consider such works on their own merit, I believe in death of the author, but to say that major stuff like this has NO bearing on the art in question AT ALL is so so so so so naive
@@ofbooksandthings I like him even more now, because at least there was real passion propelling his work, not just pure intellect
@@iammraat3059 you like him more because he was a pedo? Jesus christ dude
So Cormac waited to have a relationship until after the age of consent, offered to marry her, and the supposed “victim” in her old age regrets nothing, and highly admires him. Im supposed to think this is a giant black mark on his reputation why?
This is the new morality. Same as the old.
@@chantheman8443 Wasn't the AoC in the 1970s like 16 as well?
i am glad you did this i didn’t know what to make of this news i mean its bad but i haven’t really digested it yet. reminds me of like troubled comedians or musicians like jimmy page for example. and its sad there are so many examples. anyway for now thx for your thoughts.
He is still the GOAT no matter what
So, along with Alice Munro and Neil Gaiman (even if still allegations), this is proving to be an awful year as regards favourite/respected authors. TBH I always found McCarthy rather smug and full of his own self importance, so this doesn't surprise me...and what's just as disturbing is how the article tries to romanticize grooming. Yuck.
What were the allegations against Munro and Gaiman?
@@LaFou06At least two women have accused Gaimen of sexual assault. One was a fan and the other was working for him as a nanny and I believe he admitted to having sexual relations with them but insisted it was consensual
Quite different from any other cases. Here the victim is coming forward not to harm someone's reputation but to save it. McCarthy isn't accused of anything. She loves and admires him and they had a lifelong friendship. She knows the papers will be made public and wants to explain the situation beforehand.
@@MrStrakmudflapIt most likely was consensual and it's just a bunch of women who want the world to feel sorry for them because they decided to be sleazy.
@@LaFou06 Honestly, the Gaiman accusations just read like clumsy courtship. One claimed he abruptly kissed a woman while they were chatting alone in a flat. The terror.
The part with Moss and the teenager runaway in No country for old men now seems very like Cormac and Augusta, maybe it is inspired by it.
You think the person that wrote Blood Meridian would be squeaky clean?
What’s his main channel?
I agree, I'm waiting for the wave of reaction
I get that it's bad, but this was way back in 1976.
Here's my take. People who have been victimized by grooming often don't want their victimization to be revealed and aired out because what has to happen before you are victimized this way is that you have to be fooled by your victimizer. Nobody wants to admit to being fooled because it means you have been a fool.
This lady was approached by others with a serious mind set and she rejected them because they would have kept a certain distance from her and called what happened to her victimization and written it up that way. She deliberately picked Vincenzo Barney because of his 'gonzo' qualities. I.e., making himself part of the story by being with her and befriending her before interviewing her and going along with her own view of herself as having some agency in what went on between her and McCarthy. She wanted herself to be seen as having mastery of the situation and not to be seen as a fooled victim. I'm not being pejorative by using the word 'gonzo.' Gonzo was the "New journalism" of the 1970's where it was thought that truth would be better served by the journalist making him or herself part of the story by participating in the story. But a young writer can some times confuse 'gonzo' journalism with bad journalism.
Thanks for this. I've only read a couple McCarthy novels and all within the last year, so I'll be processing and reassessing a bit as well.
Over the last several years though, it's felt like every time I finish such a stage, something else comes out about another writer who has influenced me, so I'm constantly in a flux of rethinking, seeking justice, and rebuilding. Now, the temptation is to numb myself to it all, and I'm doing my best to not fall prey to that
How did he meet this 16 year old girl? Seems odd. How long did the relationship last?
You have to read the Vanity Fair article: it’s a very novelistic tale.
Donoghue was right all along.
About?
Donoghue was right perhaps about the quality of the man's writing. I don't ever remember him speaking about the man's personal life.
I'm certainly not a McCarthy scholar or even a "huge" fan, but my literary journey begun 2 years ago after reading The Road. After that I read a few of his other novels which really inspired me to delve deep into world literature. With that being said, this news is genuinely sad, I consider him to be one of my personal favorite authors, and even though i've moved away from his work recently it still sucks. I still hope to read through his remaining work, but similar to you idk what it will look like for me when reaching his female characters on the page (who already don't get portrayed properly in my opinion) Overall just sad news for American letters and we'll have to see what the fallout is in the coming years.
“ relationship “
DFW is another celebrated writer who is basically a documented creep. Essentially stalked this poor woman for years and no one really knew until after he self deleted. It's a shame how many great artists seem to have either be straight up pieces of shit or had some sort of skeleton in the closet.
oh i’m a bit relieved since i never liked him. whew! no reason to force myself to read those books with that artificially high-falutin language!
I need my own young muse
Is there proof other than the woman’s claims?
Great people cast huge shadows
I hate hearing this, but still... If Britt herself maintains that it wasn't predatory then I don't think it should matter. If a friend of mine had sex with someone that much younger it would disturb me and I might stop hanging out with them, but when I was in my teens I was on the younger side of such relationships and I don't hate or think anything bad about my at-the-time-partner for it. 16 is the legal age in most jurisdictions after all.
Yeah I don't know, I'm not trying to cope about this just because of how much I love McCarthy as a writer, but maybe I am.... Hope you all take care of yourselves.
Some people infantilise older teenagers a lot. I would say that her age was the least problem in that relationship. What about the part where he immediately proceeded to violate her trust by hiding that he's married and that he has a son? Also, this whole thing with chat GTPing her life into his books?
She only talked now because she knows his papers are coming public and she will be discovered so she wanted to get ahead of it
I don't think it's all that bad. People seem to be reacting like he held her down and raped her. It may not have been right but two messed up people colliding and having a relationship that out of the norm isn't unheard of. I still hear Michael Jackson on the radio all the time and what he did was far, far worse IMO.
This only makes me more interested in him
If this woman wanted justice she would have came out while he was alive. She clearly didn't feel violated.
The argument's that, as young as she was, her sense of feeling violated is immaterial, as she was below the age of consent.
@ well obviously he did a bad thing under the law. But i also feel like if she doesn't feel like a victim, society shouldn't treat her like a victim.
@@johnlanser1951 I think there's room to not treat Augusta as a victim, but still condemn McCarthy.
alot of criminals:Jerry Lee Lewis (1935-2022)Inappropriate Relationship: Married his 13-year-old cousin, Myra Gale Brown, in 1957 when he was 22.
Pablo Picasso (1881-1973) Inappropriate Relationships: Had several relationships with younger women, including a relationship with 17-year-old Marie-Thérèse Walter when he was 45.
Elvis Presley (1935-1977)Inappropriate Relationship: Had a highly publicized romantic relationship with Priscilla Beaulieu, who was 14 when they met, while he was 24. They married when she was 21.
Picasso and a 17-year-old was perfectly legal in his society, and for that matter, considered perfectly appropriate. You're casting backward, with current eyes, seeing what isn't there.
Wow, what a bummer.
Bro literally is Judge Holden
Man i was just starting to get into McCarthy :'( I need a good and deep author that doesn't get cancelled haha
Try Bohumil Hrabal, one of the most respected Czech authors of the 20th century, he seemed like quite a decent guy, despite a few controversies because he didn't want to be an explicitly political author during the communist period of the Czech Republic (despite satirizing many aspects of life in communism). Too loud a solitude is an absolute masterpiece.
he is not cancelled if you decide is not and you read him. Don't let anybody tell you what to read based on their own moral. Pretending to be virtuous is the new sport in town
I havent read it yet but hasnt Hrabal described his mass culling of cats in "All my cats"?
I am sure that also warrants a cancellation in todays time. But I would be surprised if Hrabal is on the mind of anybody who engages in social media cancellation.
I am trying to get my Czech to a level that I can read more of him because you are right " Too loud a solitude is very impressive.
@@PatataSimbolica
Who cares? You should read him.
this is equal in magnitude to the Cheever Letters episode of Seinfeld. 😂😂
Tried to read No Country and could not even make it through the first few chapters, it was just awful. So never bothered with this guys books. It is ALWAYS a mistake to put other human beings on Pedestals. Always!
Dumbass
Sad stuff
While disturbing and disappointing, I'm not going to stop reading McCarthy because of it. Or watching Chinatown because of Polanski, reading Sandman because of Gaiman, watching The Usual Suspects because of Spacey....or every movie produced by Weinstein. You get the idea.
Exactly right. Their work lives independently of their own name.
Why not? McCarthy is dead, but Spacey and Weinstein are very much alive and profiting from these works of art.
Those aren’t the same. There is a difference between an artist passing away and reevaluating their work and supporting someone still engaging in unjustifiable behaviors and profiting off of it.
@@QuestionsIAskMyselfIt may or may not be the same. He didn't say he'd purchase Sandman or borrow them from a library. By pirating them, it will be the same.
I agree with your examples, but also submit one where I just cannot separate the art from the artist (unfortunately, because the movie is fucking dope): The Professional. I am not able to focus on the movie anymore without thinking about Besson and his background during any scene with Mathilda on the screen.
I'm grateful for your videos.
I think that Cormac McCarthy dislikers were dismissed, taken as unserious; it's not that they don't exist, it's that they were invisible. I do love me some Ezra Pound.
@@joffrethegiant they are unserious
@@iammraat3059 😏
It does not make any difference about the quality of his novels whatsoever. And if there is a philosophy in his books it either is interesting and makes sense or it doesn't - again this is completely independent from how he led his life. If we would find out something bad about the person Einstein the theory of relativity would nevertheless stay true if it is true.
Now discuss Foucault in Tunisia. 🤣🤣
Really really wild piece. Difficult for me to really decide what to think on this. This Vincenzo guy does seem to be doing McCarthy pastiche which was off-kilter and annoying. Strange, strange piece. Were his actions okay? Absolutely not, but don’t know how to assess this story completely. Also, saying Pound was “pretty bad” is humorous.
Bit disappointed that no mention of Dickens and Ellen Ternan.
I can finally explain to people why I never liked him.
The woman, Augusta Brett, is now 64 years old. I repeat: 64. She obviously had some time to think about it and how SHE thinks about it from an experienced adult perspective. It seems to me many people are not ready to accept the judgment of a 64 year old woman on her earlier self. I find the way she talks about her relationship nuanced and it feels honest to me. I think the article may be wrong in some aspects, but the author cites her a lot, and the quotes give a strong impression how she thinks about it.
Life, the world, and history are messy because they are real. Why do we want our characters flawed? Why do we need to see change in them? But when it happens in real life, the one the art was imitating in the first place, we suddenly reject it? Not making excuses for McCarthy, not condoning it, but what he did IS a part of who he is and without it we don't have his body of work. Whether she was a muse in the traditional sense or she was just a dirty secret to him, It's what was needed. All good creatives have trauma. Doesn't matter the medium, there is always dark side adding the missing piece. This is true in all forms of art.
Edgar Allen Poe married a 13 year old. Was that enough to ruin him to where we do not read his works? No. It is unfortunate McCarthy thought this was appropriate but it doesn't invalidate his works. For sure it is something to keep in mind if you choose to read him, just like Poe, but a work is a work and if it inspires thought and endures well that is what it does. Unfortunately McCarthy was not man enough to admit any of this during his lifetime and his muse did not want to ruin him while he was alive, but at least we got the truth eventually to put his work into context in another way. He was a good writer and unfortunately also an abuser. It is what it is.
Ultimately it's up to each person whether they're comfortable consuming the art of problematic people, but I do think Jared makes a good point about McCarthy's infatuation with this young girl appearing in his work; that, for me (and I think for a lot of others), makes the difference between him and Poe.
@@elainafaust3717 The "problem" is seeing people as problematic or not....show me someone who isnt problematic, a single human beaing I mean......she wasnt 4, she was 16, stfu already....
@@Lacostanico I think it's only fair for people to be disturbed by this. Having sexual relations with someone under 18 when you're an adult isn't just some social faux pas. It's literally A CRIME in most countries. And yet McCarthy still went ahead and engaged in said relations, fully knowing what the action means. I'm not saying this makes him some unforgivably evil person. But I totally understand why most people are disturbed and disgusted by this.
Well there is the context of like 100+ years of cultural advancement being a difference.
@@Lacostanico here he is defending a 42 year old man grooming a 16 yo and saying shut up about it :D are you okay?
*Was
Every time this happens suddenly people are running around thinking their heads are on fire, and _How can the world be this way?!_ as if the history of humanity isn't the history of people diddling one another inappropriately. Next tell me how you're shocked that rich people embezzled and how astonishing it is that unchecked power led to corruption. Each time it's somehow 'new' and yet countless in the telling, the story of who we are, our desiring, lustful species.
This is ridiculous. Like c’mon. You are navel-gazing to excuse pedophiles. It’s not human nature. Why is it anytime someone resorts to this fallacy it’s always to defend depraved behaviors that no source actually backs.
Your favorite author is not that important to use the oh-so-often fallacious “human nature” argument to defend p*dos. C’mon.
that story is literally the worst prose ever brought into the english language
📚
We have become such a judgmental and smugly self-righteous culture, to reduce a clearly meaningful, life-long relationship into "He groomed her! For shame". Good lord people. Human relationships are not a cartoon. LIfe is more nuanced than that. She says herself, "He saved my life." I think you all should listen to the wisdom of our times and believe women.
She was a child
@@crystalross7943 yes, this abused woman clearly doesn’t know what was best for her over the course of an entire lifetime, but you do, person who only learned about this within the last few days
@@crystalross7943 Agreed. This poor woman doesn't even understand that she was abused, after an entire lifetime of reflection. Thankfully we do, people who only learned about it two days ago.
I'm sure the three Redditors that actually read his work are reeling rn.
12:30 "bad people" he's far from bad, do you feel you're beyond reproach ?
When did we become so self-righteous over grown men hooking up with teenage chicks? This stuff was commonplace for decades, both among celebrities and regular people alike.
Great art almost always comes from deeply flawed individuals who dealt with dark impulses. I don’t care what the morality police has to say about it. These same people have their own dark impulses.
Without venturing an opinion on where great art comes from, it should be observered that "having", "dealing with" and "giving effect to" dark impulses are all very different things.
gross
This comment says more about you than anything else and you probably don't even realize it.
The certainty in your language is off putting. Calling him evil and a groomer. God forbid we wait and reserve our opinions.
relatedly, Michael Jackson’s work feels totally inextricable from his crimes against children. Leaving Neverland is a great film, in part because it hammers this point home so clearly and carefully
Michael Jackson was innocent and his accusers are proven liars a million times over.
No one would care about McCarthy if it wasn't for Harold Bloom. Hack writer promoted by a hack critic. Shed a tear, dude-bros.
Real & True
what do "dude-bros" have anything to do with anything?
@@nope5657 They're bending over backwards right now defending their favorite predator author. Pathetic, but not surprising.
@@Issacson I question the reality that "dudebros," as I understand them, have read a single word he ever put to paper.
How come whenever something bad comes out about an artist people have to pretend the art was never good lol
I was never a fan of Cormac McCarthy. I'm serious.
Wow good for you. How moral and virtuous!
@@nope5657 No, I just have good taste.
He's dead now, so who cares? Your money can't help him.
I don't even know what to think.
Somebody will come along and let you know what to think. Sit tight.
He should have done like Stephen King and cleaned up his mess and be one of those many rich fake nice guys who have this aura of being a pdfile but still no one talks about.
Bwahahah. "Rich fake nice guys who have this aura of being a pdfile " is such an accurate read of Stephen King 😂
Honestly, though, I genuinely think King is in the clear. I think Tabitha and his kids (but mainly Tabitha) are what kept him from going off the rails. Still keeping my fingers crossed, though. You never know what's gonna come out someday!🤞
Most old writers probably did weird shit , just dont think about it and just enjoy the books
She was 16 not 6, this is only an american issue.
Good for him! Sounds like they had a special connection.
Bruh.
Everyone before 80s did. The law started at late 80s. It is still 14 somewhere, 16 somewhere else and 18 in most places.
so fed up with all the new puritan this day who judge everything from their POV of today on thing from the past. She said she didn't think it was abusive or predatory. But of course, the medias will do it. Because destroy with a good story is more important than her at the end.
Well, in Germany this is still legal and there is no debate about it.
1. Just because it is legal doesn’t mean it’s not gross.
2. By taking Britt out of the country when she was 16, and without her parents’ permission, he was committing kidnapping. This is why federal law enforcement were investigating him.
3. McCarthy knew he was breaking the law, hence why he forged Britt’s birth certificate to take her into Mexico.
@@brainiac138On (1) It is legal because there is an ethical assumption that people with the age of 16 can make important decisions on their own life. I agree wih this assumption although one should have a closer look. Therefore (2) I do not assume this to be kidnapping. (3) is evident, but there is a difference between conscience and knowing that you break the law.
This really has no bearing on my reception of his work whatsoever
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
I've never read McCarthy. That's really sad for the woman he victimized and everyone else his selfishness has affected.
His selfishness bought them ferraris
Oh yes such a "victim" lmao
Wherein we examine the modern American inability to distinguish between theory and reality, and its incipient impatience post-headline.