Well thank you for bringing this up to everyone. That is clearly the future and similar "hybrid" systems are the way to go... something that stuck out was they are modifying the air flow for heating purposes but why not just connect it to the air circulation system as well and use it to cool down the building itself? The air intakes are always on the top so might as well. And when are we going to see the first air turbines with solar cells on the propellers ? Toridal designs are perfect for that no? bonus points if you engineer it with reflective surface on the opposite side of the solar panel side that powers the under side :P
This also cools the roof (actually prevents it getting heated by the direct sun) and that reduces the air conditioning load, at least for the residents of the top floor.
This looks promising, especially when applied to taller buildings. I'm an advocate for every flat roofed structure to have renewable energy power sources installed on them.
@d1j16 Agreed. The frustrating thing is getting technologies like this widespread. In my city of Ottawa, Canada, I've yet to see any of the green roofs installed on any of the dozens of new buildings gone up, and that concept is probably at least 15 years old. I've also noticed that many of the buildings in my neighborhood are poorly insulated, despite the energy crunch all the way back in the 1970s.
@@lawrencetaylor5407 Builders and customers are generally more sensitive to the costs of construction, not poorly-understood savings and possible maintenance issues of its operation. Maybe you can lobby your local government to enact some ordinances and incentives regarding new construction as well as retrofits.
I have one concern, since cities are continually allowing taler building I is likely that these installations will in the future be in sun shadow and\or wind shaddows. This suggests that maximun building height need to be standardized. Alternativey we need laws forbidding putting existing solar\wind shaddows. This law should also apply to houses and should also require neighbors to prune trees if they shaddow solar pannels.
Such a promising system! I feel for the birds, is there any study on the subject? would it be counter productive to have a protection allowing the wind to get in and not the birds?
The way it looks is a benefit I suppose but if it's looks over function or price then I'd rather have something that is an eyesore but generates a lot of power for very little money. I'd love to know how much it cost, how much the subsidies were and how much power it generates per year but these seem pretty hard to find.
Just became a patreon. You help dissipate all the fud about "renewable" energy generation with actual reports on viable projects going on right now. As well as promoting critical thinking. Cheers; Jason from Colorado USA
What a neat system and a fantastic retrofit opportunity. Invariable the consumer end of the grid would need upgrading if this were adopted at scale. Also, electricity storage in each building would be great for power outages and peak demand reduction. At the apartment block scale flow batteries could be in the plant rooms?
Appartements mean fewer roof surface/inhabitants. And even fewer as the building has more floors. This system has the most use in personnal houses. Best EROI/inhabitant. City rooftops are better used for farming.
Looks like an interesting idea. As a structural engineer, I have to say you would be pretty lucky to find a building that would support the extra wind and gravity loads. It would be rare to find a building that could take the loads without expensive upgrading requirements. If it is built into a new design, the extra costs would not be too bad.
It was mentioned that the weight of the units was equivalent to about 12cm of water on the roof, which was apparently within operational limits. The wind loading from the turbines would be much lower than an equivalent horizontal axis one, but I have no idea how much that would be. It didn't appear to require any extra reinforcement in the clips shown... they looked to be installed straight n to the roof?
@@AJPemberton It isn't within the limits of the vast majority of existing buildings. A 1.2KPa additional roof load is a pretty high jump in load (some areas only require a 1.0KPa roof load design but a typical roof is designed for 1.5 to 2.0KPa. High up in the mountains or rare locations you might get up to 12KPa or even more). The increase in wind is substantial since the extra wind load is at the top of the building. It is at the worst location. The load may not be quite as much as an additional story but it will be close. You want the force and blade velocity to be high to get the most power out of the system.
@@yodaiam1000 Thanks for the details. I'm not well-versed in building code, so nice to have the extra info. Were the typical roof loads you mentioned for just high-rise buildings, or did they cover all building types? I ask because most residential dwellings (which numerically are the more 'typical structure) don't have flat roofs loaded with equipment such as aircons, lift equipment, etc, and I guess would require lower loading standards. As for the additional wind loading, would the change in airflow the units cause mean higher, equal or lower overall stress on the building? This was shown at 6:15 and to my eye, it appears the wind loading would be at least similar to an unaltered rooftop?
@@AJPemberton Under very specific circumstances, the wind load might be equivalent or even less but that does not occur in the general case. The FE model shown looks like a fairly specific geometry. The wind load will most certainly be relatively higher on a lower building (comparing a low building without the system with a low building with the system). You actually want the force and velocity on the turbine to be high to maximize power. If the turbines just spun without too much resistance, you are not generating much power (unless the turbines are super fast). The code minimums vary depending on location, geometry for snow drift etc. It is not related to the height of the roof (in most codes). So high rises have no more snow load requirement than a typical building. However, they generally can support higher loads since the roof is typically concrete and you just get higher capacities just because of the material used. But the same is not true for the lateral capacity.
@yodaiam1000 Snow was the part I was thinking about. Initially, I'd think the darker surface of the panels in high wind places would prevent the snow from building up on the panels, but all the open air beneath the panels would certainly let snow drift on the roof and then be shaded, preventing it from melting quickly and causing dangerous excess loads. Not sure how well it'd work in snowy areas to put extra weight on a roof and encourage snow build-up where snow weight is already a big hazard.
It's great to see that just utilising the top of the high rise like that can produce such a massive majority of the energy needs for the whole tower! Community energy has always been my hope and aim, ever since my Mum campaigned in the 1980s for our local government to move to renewable energy independence for the island nation where I grew up - didn't work, they still rely on oil and gas: but it left me with an understanding of the concepts and good sense of local renewable power for the community.
This would add options for city dwellers of concrete jungles to participate in self-power living, solar and wind. Elegant solution. Hopefully the Fossil Fuel Demons don't attack the permitting process.
Yes and no need for huge new infrastructure investment in transmission lines! That should also be taken into consideration when calculating "levelized cost of energy production".
@@robertstrader3267 Yes, good point. I could envision some heat battery system carrying energy to the basement structure where all the power distribution and concrete is located anyways. Big thermal battery with a hot water pipe going to the roof, for instance. Get the battery weight off the roof and retrofit even more buildings.
Islands are probably the best use case for renewable energy. Your Mum had the right idea. I wonder if they'd change their minds about it today, with the current price of oil and gas.
Ever since I read about this system I have included it in all my housing dreams. I love that it can be retrofitted too. And as for community ownership, any set up that takes control of electrical power out of the hands of for-profit private companies or the government and puts it in the hands of people is a win in my book.
it would be interesting to see how its efficiency scales with size. hopefully small units would present as much as a benefit for single family houses as these larger units.
Lovely! Thanks for this. I love the idea, and even the community ownership is intriging. It does matter what the ownership of the units in the building or building itself is. What immediately comes to my mind is maintenance. 25 years isn't really that long of a time.
25yr service life seems pretty long if you're 25; Less so if you're not. Often that 25yr quote is for 80% capacity. So after 20yrs, 80% of initial rating is still produced. In comparison nuclear power plants are often 60 year total design life, then you have a bunch of radioactive waste and concrete to deal with. Not to mention the radioactive mining to get that radioactive material to begin with. If you're looking for a deal on solar panels, buy used. They are at a point in their design life where they have been replaced for commercial use, but still putting out 80%-90% of their rated power. I imagine the same for this system: sell the PV after 20 years. Those will go into a ground mount system, and new panels will be installed on the roof where space is a premium. This can be done with a wrench. The wind turbines really only need bearings and possibly a motor coil rewound with copper. Not a huge issue, and plenty of motor shops exist currently to do exactly that. One thing that isn't a wear part is the geometric design. This is really the big advantage here of using the same square area twice-over for both wind and solar. I don't like flat roofs, not one bit. But if you have one, this system seems really elegant. Hopefully it is widely adopted and quickly.
This is probably the most exciting system you've highlighted to date! Not least because -it's actually here today-! One benefit of LEED certified buildings is they often put soil and vegetation on the roof for cooling and insulation, which certainly helps, but being able to instead harness energy while shading the building is super exciting! Especially given that every rooftop component would have better performance and/or longevity if they're protected from solar and heat radiation.
Love the integrated complimentary technologies here. Get the costs right, and this is a big winner that could be made ubiquitous. Like your enthusiasm Dave!
I live in the USA and in recent years there have been many warehouses constructed where I live. This application would be perfect fit , there are so many they feasibly could be power plants as well! One can dream ….
I really have to hand it to the Netherlands, being on the front line of climate change, they are taking the lead in trying to implement new technologies that should help mitigate the amount of greenhouse gases they produce. This extremely clever integration of technologies looks like a winner, I’m actually going to forward the info to the group within our company that looks at reducing the not-insignificant impact of our operations. As a bonus, it looks as if this will pay for itself in a very reasonable time frame.
Solar panels in the Netherlands are carbon positive due to the fact that they are made with electricity from coal and the Netherlands doesn't have enough sun to get the most out of PV panels.
@@derekcraig3617 and yet even if that’s a fact (made with power from coal) it’s irrelevant. Before we had coal or oil we had wood, and that’s what we used to smelt the first metals, which were then used to produce the boilers that consume the coal you seem to be so fond of. Does this surprise you? It’s called bootstrapping, you should look up the concept. Let me jump you ahead a few decades… humanity, after a period of time is able to produce sufficient quantities of energy from renewable sources to power all consumer and industrial needs, including to produce solar panels and wind turbines with no use of fossil fuels. At which time we’ll be able to (mostly) retire them. And trolls, or paid shills such as yourself will have to move on to whining about something else.
Once again you have provided so much information on how countries can alleviate supply problems with proper planning and governments enforcing the use of such innovations.
It's refreshing to see a company make use of tried and tested modular technology rather than trying to re-invent the wheel with exaggerated claims from weird and wonderful designs that rarely stack up to any tangible results - well done and I hope to see these on every tall building in time to come!
I'd love to see a version of this that not only has PV, but also solar heating elements. That would be way more useful for residential buildings. One could run smaller heat collectors in between the PV panels, and on a full rooftop that should yield enough heat for at least the warm water generation, even in winter.
Don't need heat collectors for hot water. They could have chosen to water cool the panels. That gives them lots of hot water, and makes the panels even more efficient.
that might be complicated to do. Water is not exactly light, and the amount needed to heat a multi-story building would weigh tons. You would have to reinforce the roof and add pipes throughout the structure to get the hot water into each room. Running electrical cables is a lot easier. The added complexity and maintenance may make it not worthwhile even in a new purpose-built building, let alone retro-fitting an existing one.
I agree with Anthony. The econmics of solar heating elements got worse over the last couple of years with PV falling stronger in price and the rising installation costs playing a bigger role in solar heating. Combining heat pumps with PV is often times a sensibel solution
@@lordgarion514 Europe even summers are not really that hot. But that is going to be a real problem in Asia, particularly South Asia. Summers routinely reach 40C plus plus. But I find water cooling to be messy and air cooling far more efficient.
@@janami-dharmam No one cares what you find, AND you're wrong. The absolute scientific fact is that using water is more efficient at cooling things than using air. And that's simply because water moves more heat than air does. "One litre of water can bring about 3000 times more energy out from a system when compared with one litre of air. This comes from the physical properties of air: it’s heat conductivity is poor."
Another benefit of rooftop solar like this, particularly for short wide buildings like malls and light commercial/industrial space, is that it greatly reduces the need for air conditioning keeping hot sun off the roof. So not only generates electricity, is also reduces demand for electricity.
Fantastic. I have been saying for a while that we need to combine renewable energy production technologies to increase utility. This is a perfect and brilliant example. Thanks for the good content as always.
it also cools down top floor of building, they can also collect water by putting mesh around building, it traps humidity from the air and turns it into usable water. building can collect that water for self usage if they use this type of net mesh with tiny threads to collect water in it's entire wall areas
During my education years I was taught to utilize ' non-linear ' thinking whenever planning to undertake a new project and for its duration; same concept just a different way of saying it. This roof mounted wind and solar energy generation system is a brilliant example of this way of thinking and how, with a little tweaking, so many other useful applications it could offer.
@@buttonasas : you are absolutely correct. Both methods are simply ways to remind one to keep on looking for additional ways to solve a problem or for additional applications for your new information. Thinking outside the box is yet another way of saying to keep thinking !
Add yet a little whipped cream on that desert, any A/C units up there on the roof, as well as the roof itself, are now in the shade AND getting a lot of air across them as well. Yet another win!
But they’d also emit heat, which then reduces the efficiency of the solar panels so there’s a tradeoff to be made. It certainly might be worth it as the wind would quickly disperse and carry away the heat, it’d require a cost/benefit analysis to determine if overall would be better or worse.
Eindhoven is a lovely city with some interesting and attractive architecture - a development like this will fit in well. Excellent news, a modular system makes including it in designs a no brainer.
Neat deployment of technology for power production! Maximizing the utility of flat roofs in this way makes a lot of sense to me. I hope they have a snow removal feature for those solar panels in colder climates like here in Canada since it would be a heart stopping job to broom them off. Lastly, $0.08-0.12 per kWh seems high relative to typical wind power but I suppose the bonus is that it can be use on site, that is, without transmission costs.
Sounds like a brilliant way to reduce the need for large scale, centralized electric power production? and at the same time increase energy efficiency of buildings already in existence. Not at all surprised that the Dutch would come up with such an amazing system! They seem to do this many different things. Bravo!!! I hope this idea catches on throughout Europe, North America and the rest of the world. It would appear to have significant application in urban settings anywhere. Thanks for bringing this wonderful energy efficient technology to our attention! Very much enjoy watching your podcasts, always something new to learn, about so many different topics. Thanks for all your efforts!
This time you did not talk so fast. That is very good for people, who understand English but not as their native language. Thank you for that.. Greetings from North Franconia
Looks like a very good idea to utilize this usually useless space. Architectually valuable facilities like these could also be used in other places than rooftops where there is lots of open space to be covered and sunshaded, like parking lots, restaurant terraces and patios and so on. There's lots of potential in these facilities. Combine it with storage and we are a good long step further along the road to more sustainability and sustainable, local energy generation and usage.
@@timogronroos4642 Energy storage is very much needed for times when you generate way too much electricity, which would lead to throttling or shut down of your panels or wind turbines because the generation capacity exceeds the electricity need, and to store that excess energy for times when you don't generate enough to meet the demand, like nights, cloudy days, day without lots of wind, spike times, etc.
Hope this works out well and can scale quickly to go on to more buildings. I had brief experience with some wind turbines on top of a building in Houston. Unfortunately one broke free and fell to the ground - luckily no one was hurt. Needless to say that was the end of that on the building!
Absolutely the way we should be going. I converted a van to a camper and did lots of lateral thinking and integration between systems, its extremely satisfying to see someone actually pushing for solutions to get us off fossil fuels, instead of govt.s just throwing targets out there and waiting around for people to separate their HDPE from flexible plastics.
That is very clever. With the weight there coul'd be at some buildings a problem. They are designed for the snow weight, this 2-300 kg/m2 adds to that and maybe exceeds the design limits. The solution could be with the pv-modules. As far as I know, if you drive current through pv-panels, they produce heat, wich could be handy to melt the snow and with that to eliminate that weight.
Actually they produce light, with heat as a byproduct of inefficiency losses. You'd be better off with a purely resistive heat trace running between cells, like the rear window defroster of an automobile.
With blocks to access the main Grid then mini and micro grids make a lot of sense that produce most of their own energy and only need small gains/losses to the main grid!
More lateral thinking for an improved design and functionality: Add railings by the side for a rainwater harvesting system as well + pump excess storage in the groundwater via a borewell. Add some pipes and cisterns to include the concept of rainwater harvesting to make the system better. Plus, cooling costs for your turbines can reduce if you make it flow through them before recharging the borewells beneath the buildings.
the solar panels are not installed "water tight", so the collection of the water from the panels is not a viable solution. But the water is coming to the roof anyway, so it's possible to collect it with or without this system
but seriously, this is a very interesting adjunct on the journey to ultra high capacity PV panels! I think the idea of individualized community ownership will have significant political challenges. Where multiple people are dependent on a resource, collective governance becomes problematic in terms of upkeep, monitoring etc
I'm normally a detractor of vertical-axis wind turbines, but this looks like a great use-case for them. The potential for community energy here is also very exciting! Great video again Dave.
@10:00So I thought the whole thing is pretty cool use of wind and solar but the idea of adding a perfect structure to be able to do window cleaning and maintenance on the outside of the building really truly gives it the highest rating. I lived in a building for about 6 years that had a rooftop garden and was supposed to add extra energy with the solar panels but after the first year they just gave up. All the stuff overgrew that at one point the maintenance guy couldn't even access the rooftop without basically destroying the rooftop access lol. The plant growth also screwed up attachment points that they had engineered for people to do window cleaning that's sadly ended up in death of a window cleaner. After that happened they couldn't find employees willing to do that work because of various financial concerns. Beyond that the idea of having a fixed well-designed way to be able to do all the maintenance on the outside of the building Plus drop energy costs is really fantastic. Lateral thinking is not just making things more effective but genuinely safer for everyone who has to interact with the building. Love the channel thanks for the cool video this week.
A very uplifting video Dave, thanks. I have already invested in shares in Ripple Energy’s community energy project in Scotland. I think that community energy has a big future. Good luck to Ibis.
I love it! My questions are: what happens during a hurricane? What happens when there's a meter of snow on top? And how many holes does this put in the roof?
Luckely we have allmost none hurricanes in The Netherlands. And (sadly because probably climate change) also seldom snow. I think it will be blown of for the biggest part. About the holes, I can’t answer but I don’t think that will be an issue. What may be an issue is the building quality and if there is a chance of earthquakes, a sad lesson from Turkey 😢
This seems like a wonderful idea and I hope for success for the company. As far as community owned power production, I strongly support the idea! I honestly think the best way forward is micro grids connected to the larger electrical grids. This sort of arrangement will prevent massive blackouts. Green energy production paired with storage is the path to this. It also will allow nearby micro grids to stabilize a micro grid that is experiencing high demand as well as the larger grid. A system like this allows for far greater grid stability across the board.
In the UK, Octopus are rolling out what they call "fan clubs" If you've got a wind farm near you, then costs are reduced by up to 50% which is absolutely fantastic I'd absolutely love to have some form of wind turbine on my roof, in this form of infrastructure too. "Current" wind turbines don't seem worth it for domestic usage
That tech looks extremely promising for every building in our cities! Would also be great to make home installations in a similar way, where applicable.
Ahh i think this system is so beautiful. Maybe not aesthetically but very beautiful functionally. I think i'd heard of the term lateral thinking before but i didn't really absorb what it means but now i love the idea of it. Also yes i think community power grids will keep becoming more popular and i really hope melbourne opens up to more of these kinds of projects! I don't know of any/haven't seen or heard of anything beyond the occasional solar panels on roofs. I would be so happy if we bought a few of these and had them in the city. This is THE most amazing type of community power system i've seen 😄 and melbourne is often windy so it would be perfect. And i think the architechture is as pretty as you can make it for this power system but it does kind of draw my eyes right to it. Maybe it's not as eyecatching when you're walking around on the ground. But i still hope it is implemented in lots of places because the benefit of it is amazing and if any places are willing to sacrifice a little sky view from within the city the benefits are amazing and i have to love how lateral the whole design is
The first thing that I would add to the construction, would be robust - maybe even rigid - nets, with meshes narrow enough that no bird can get through. Else the birds would not only create droplings and nests up there, but also get caught in the blades which would cause a lot of havoc.
I love it. This is what we need for sure! Not too much shade from trees up there, also plenty of wind. It is good to hear that vibrations were no issue. I am off grid in Canada and I would love that sort of system scaled down for a house
#Wow that's the most promising approach to energy you've covered in a while. It can be added to existing buildings It doesn't depend on difficult-to-predict-but-currently-drying-out rain & snow (like most water power plants, especially the pumping-back ones). It doesn't have some of the disadvantages of legacy wind turbines that slows down their distribution through legal leverage for NIMBY neighbours.
I love the synergy of wind and PV. Night versus day, windy grey and bright still weather. And the Netherlands are often really windy, especially near the coast
Great idea. What happens when another high rise building is build next to/close to the building with the power nest? I would anticipate some adverse impact due to shadowing (either wind, sun or both) from the new building.
Time will tell. But this looks very promising and off to a good start. I would love to see this or something very similar absolutely every where that it makes sense to put them.
This is exactly what I have been writing on about here for years - synergistic, integrated, multi-tech solutions utilising already commercially existing technologies are the future. An Architect leading the way in this particular field is no surprise, especially a Dutch one :). As for the aesthetics there is so many different ways it can be designed within the operating parameters it will suit any building. Great stuff!
Your thoughts on all cities using thirsty concrete in there roads to reduce flooding black ice and sand mining helping ecosystems and the people in the city. Also it will increase groundwater soil and aquifer levels. But we should line the sides of roads with native plants and trees to reduce heat flooding wind noise pollution and air and ground pollution co2 too.
Brilliant, I think this other design of roof turbines to generate green Energy is the best so far and very good because it can be used on existing buildings in villages, towns and cities. Thanks for sharing. I always look forward to what's new in green energy.
I really like the idea of this, certainly from an efficiency standpoint. One question I'd have, though, would be how to prevent birds and bats from being injured or killed by moving parts
I read that "cats kill more birds than windmills." I don't know if that's a good thing about windmills or a bad thing about cats. However, I've never seen a cat kill a windmill.
This is such a cool invention! I must say, I would always prefer electricity generation over heat generation; You could instead use water-cooling underneath the solar cells, that way you would cool them and you could use the generated heat to heat your building. But this would require more plumbing and would not be such a standardised solution for every building, so I favour the wind cooled approach.
collecting water from where? thin air? But yes, solar powered desalination units are much needed for regular use. For agriculture, we need to haveathink...
@@janami-dharmam The flat, tilted surfaces of the solar panels naturally shed water - just add some collecting troughs [for rainfall] at the lower edges and send it to a tank. This would not be drinking water but could serve as 'gray water' and used to water plants or flush toilets.
Simply put, this my most favourite channel on TH-cam. Although I am not scientifically minded to any degree and spent my life in law-enforcement, I am extremely interested in the human condition and how science and very smart people will, hopefully, get us to a better and sustainable future. I do realize that there is a vast difference between theory and concept as opposed to practical reality but I love seeing these new and cutting edge inventions being both put to the test and eventually becoming reality to improve humanity. Yes, there's a ton of failure from the lab to production and practicable application but its fun to dream and see the possibility of great ideas!!
I love all this about making electricity in different ways. The only thing that bothers me is that all these conversions between DC and AC interfere a lot with the radio. As a radio amateur, I am very affected by all this conversion. Even LED lights are a nightmare.
@@markapplejohn4376 "A device" that counters high current switching? (of things like rectifiers and PWM controllers) As 1 suggests, you can shield it, but you can't reasonably _eliminate_ it. It is inherent in the operation. So you either harvest wind and solar then invert it for use on the grid or you don't bother doing it at all. I think we have a pretty good understanding of how electricity works at this point.
Filters are the solution. We can receive the signal from a spacecraft beyond the solar system (few watts of transmitter power) - right? But putting a good antenna at a decent point is getting more and more difficult for regular folks.
@@janami-dharmam The U.S. can't even get filters on commercial aircraft so the mobile telecoms can proceed with their 5G rollout. In the '70's I used to bitch about the neighborhood kids on dirt bikes with CDI walking all over my rx The more times change, the more they stay the same....
Great to see this getting attention. Minor gripe: Henri Ford did not invent part standardization (nor the assembly line, for that matter). But yes, he did use it very effectively.
In the U.S. Eli Whitney is usually credited with part standardization due to his government contract for 15,000 muskets at the dawn of the 19th century. The only way to fulfill that contract was to create interchangeable parts en-mass at his armory. Around mid-century Samuel Colt was producing hundreds of his patented revolvers each day using interchangeable parts and assembly line style division of labour. What Ford did best was to vertically integrate. They owned the mines, furnaces, mills and forges/stamping plants. They owned the forests and lumber mills that supplied their coach works and wheelwrights
@@eriktempelman2097 I grew up here in Connecticut and I'm a geek of industrial and material technology. 🤓 Most of our industry is gone, other than military contractors like Electric Boat, Sikorsky, P&W, Norden, etc... This state was the epicenter of firearms production since the revolutionary war but the political climate is too hostile now.
Provides options for city dwellers to participate in self-power living, solar and wind. Let's keep the Fossil Fuel Demons away from the permitting process THIS time. This is approaching symbiotic design, almost biological elegance. One thing i will note: if you have snowfall, you really do want your PV to be inclined to 60 degrees in winter. Snow tends to self-clear above that angle, but 2x as long for 30 degrees, and maybe not at all for less. Some articulation in the PV mount could help here, if only for the back row. This would increase venturi (can we say Bernoulli?) effect by introducing a high pressure zone at the rear and above the airflow. The air below at the turbine level will accelerate to meet that airflow and re- balance the pressure gradient. Of course, the whole system would need to be considered. I do like this approach though. Keep It Simple and Symbiotic: my personal engineering mantra of KISS. _Also, keep such well organized and clearly thought-out videos flowing our way, Sir!_ Much appreciated!
Non-profit social services agency in Fairbanks, Alaska is planning a building. I would love to have robust renewable energy. Will this work in the arctic? How do you clean the solar panels? We get dust and some ash.
The plan includes hardpoints for the window washing crew. If there is already a group of professionals there on the roof, cleaning panels seems trivial
Thinking like this will change the whole power system. This is a great design, and goes directly to the cost issues - both installation and aesthetics.
3 kW per turbine seems low. It would be interesting to see how the ROI (including installation and maintenance costs) compares with a traditional MW-scale turbine on land or sea.
Bravo!! Solar on Every Roof!! Honestly, let's target resilient distributed power and storage for all residential and light commercial, with energy saving from a DC standard for lighting and appliances with NO AC inverter or grid connection. No inverter power and heat losses, replacements or expenses. No line losses, transformer losses, and mass infrastructure upgrading or maintenance.
I would imagine the system also produces a marginal decrease in A/C cooling costs by providing shade for A/C units and increased cooling air under the structure. And if the flooring is painted in l highly reflective white paint that to would have a marginal effect on A/C bills
What happens when a rotor decides to spit a blade? I'm reminded of one of the early, and fairly large, eggbeaters installed up in Canada. They were doing repairs on the brakes and since it was thought that these rotors would not self-start, they didn't bother to tie it down. When they returned it was running without a load and they had no way to control it. So they put a video camera on it and waited. It self-destructed before the winds slowed. And since it was a guyed structure it happened dramatically. A blade broke lose near the base, swung up tangling and cutting the guy wires and then falling in a heap. Maybe they have a plan for blade failures but it's not self-evident.
Neat concept, but I can only imagine the number of dead birds that will be found on that roof! They might need to put some type of wire cage around the blades...
Would they fly into the wind turbines though? It's not like the other type of turbine where there is clear sky in front of the bird one moment, and the next moment the blade appears and chops their head off; in this design the turbine takes up the same space all the time and should be visible. Moreover, there are the struts holding the structure up that the bird will see first, and they surely won't be inclined to fly fast between the louvres and struts because they can see those obstacles. The fact that the design supposedly increases wind speed over the top of the roof might in fact discourage birds from even landing there I think, as it may make it a less hospitable site. I have no expertise in the field of ornithology, but my layman's understanding of the problem of birds flying into man made objects is that they are hard to see (like glass windows) or periodically not there (the 'other' type of wind turbine blade).
How wrong you will prove to be. A review in 5 years will certainly prove how wrong you were. This is brilliant idea and fits neatly into communities developing their own solutions through renewable energy and storage.
it's a brilliant idea I saw it on another chanal we need to make use of every bit of energy we can so to get wind and solar from the same roof is a win-win.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Cooling the roof of the top flats and battery units during summer as well = totally brilliant.
This got me thinking about using fans and/or heatsinks to cool the underside of PV panels. Surely people have looked into that...
It's on top of a tower and has facilities for a maintenance cradle. Sounds like a good place for a gravity battery
@@yeroca yes people have looked into that & you can buy products today
Well thank you for bringing this up to everyone. That is clearly the future and similar "hybrid" systems are the way to go... something that stuck out was they are modifying the air flow for heating purposes but why not just connect it to the air circulation system as well and use it to cool down the building itself? The air intakes are always on the top so might as well. And when are we going to see the first air turbines with solar cells on the propellers ? Toridal designs are perfect for that no? bonus points if you engineer it with reflective surface on the opposite side of the solar panel side that powers the under side :P
This also cools the roof (actually prevents it getting heated by the direct sun) and that reduces the air conditioning load, at least for the residents of the top floor.
This looks promising, especially when applied to taller buildings.
I'm an advocate for every flat roofed structure to have renewable energy power sources installed on them.
@d1j16 Agreed. The frustrating thing is getting technologies like this widespread. In my city of Ottawa, Canada, I've yet to see any of the green roofs installed on any of the dozens of new buildings gone up, and that concept is probably at least 15 years old. I've also noticed that many of the buildings in my neighborhood are poorly insulated, despite the energy crunch all the way back in the 1970s.
Unfortunately, many of the old buildings can't take the extra load.
@@lawrencetaylor5407 Builders and customers are generally more sensitive to the costs of construction, not poorly-understood savings and possible maintenance issues of its operation. Maybe you can lobby your local government to enact some ordinances and incentives regarding new construction as well as retrofits.
and important, after one realizes the fraud that is energy markets, to do local community of energy
I have one concern, since cities are continually allowing taler building I is likely that these installations will in the future be in sun shadow and\or wind shaddows. This suggests that maximun building height need to be standardized. Alternativey we need laws forbidding putting existing solar\wind shaddows. This law should also apply to houses and should also require neighbors to prune trees if they shaddow solar pannels.
Certainly most integrated comprehensive way of creating mini grids using readily available existing technologies. Brilliant! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Such a promising system! I feel for the birds, is there any study on the subject? would it be counter productive to have a protection allowing the wind to get in and not the birds?
I am living in Eindhoven and this project looks pretty nice from the outside
The way it looks is a benefit I suppose but if it's looks over function or price then I'd rather have something that is an eyesore but generates a lot of power for very little money. I'd love to know how much it cost, how much the subsidies were and how much power it generates per year but these seem pretty hard to find.
Just became a patreon. You help dissipate all the fud about "renewable" energy generation with actual reports on viable projects going on right now. As well as promoting critical thinking.
Cheers;
Jason from Colorado USA
Always glad to see there is an American familiar with the concept of Critical Thinking. Tell your friends; don't keep something like this secret.
@@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 😆 a challenging task!
@@youmakeitreal No kidding. Half of Congress thinks tornados are caused by space lasers.
Thanks Jason. I really appreciate your support. see you over at Patreon :-)
A great design, I'd love to see these fill city rooftops.
What a neat system and a fantastic retrofit opportunity. Invariable the consumer end of the grid would need upgrading if this were adopted at scale. Also, electricity storage in each building would be great for power outages and peak demand reduction. At the apartment block scale flow batteries could be in the plant rooms?
We better hurry up with this because we're almost a third of the way through The Decisive Decade.
Let’s not forget all the batteries in the EV’s should always be hooked up doing something while they mostly sit doing nothing!
Sun bathing on the roof top is now out for young dutch ladies.
Why not add a second maintenance cradle as a gravity battery?
Appartements mean fewer roof surface/inhabitants. And even fewer as the building has more floors.
This system has the most use in personnal houses. Best EROI/inhabitant.
City rooftops are better used for farming.
Looks like an interesting idea. As a structural engineer, I have to say you would be pretty lucky to find a building that would support the extra wind and gravity loads. It would be rare to find a building that could take the loads without expensive upgrading requirements. If it is built into a new design, the extra costs would not be too bad.
It was mentioned that the weight of the units was equivalent to about 12cm of water on the roof, which was apparently within operational limits. The wind loading from the turbines would be much lower than an equivalent horizontal axis one, but I have no idea how much that would be. It didn't appear to require any extra reinforcement in the clips shown... they looked to be installed straight n to the roof?
@@AJPemberton It isn't within the limits of the vast majority of existing buildings. A 1.2KPa additional roof load is a pretty high jump in load (some areas only require a 1.0KPa roof load design but a typical roof is designed for 1.5 to 2.0KPa. High up in the mountains or rare locations you might get up to 12KPa or even more). The increase in wind is substantial since the extra wind load is at the top of the building. It is at the worst location. The load may not be quite as much as an additional story but it will be close. You want the force and blade velocity to be high to get the most power out of the system.
@@yodaiam1000 Thanks for the details. I'm not well-versed in building code, so nice to have the extra info. Were the typical roof loads you mentioned for just high-rise buildings, or did they cover all building types? I ask because most residential dwellings (which numerically are the more 'typical structure) don't have flat roofs loaded with equipment such as aircons, lift equipment, etc, and I guess would require lower loading standards.
As for the additional wind loading, would the change in airflow the units cause mean higher, equal or lower overall stress on the building? This was shown at 6:15 and to my eye, it appears the wind loading would be at least similar to an unaltered rooftop?
@@AJPemberton Under very specific circumstances, the wind load might be equivalent or even less but that does not occur in the general case. The FE model shown looks like a fairly specific geometry. The wind load will most certainly be relatively higher on a lower building (comparing a low building without the system with a low building with the system). You actually want the force and velocity on the turbine to be high to maximize power. If the turbines just spun without too much resistance, you are not generating much power (unless the turbines are super fast).
The code minimums vary depending on location, geometry for snow drift etc. It is not related to the height of the roof (in most codes). So high rises have no more snow load requirement than a typical building. However, they generally can support higher loads since the roof is typically concrete and you just get higher capacities just because of the material used. But the same is not true for the lateral capacity.
@yodaiam1000 Snow was the part I was thinking about. Initially, I'd think the darker surface of the panels in high wind places would prevent the snow from building up on the panels, but all the open air beneath the panels would certainly let snow drift on the roof and then be shaded, preventing it from melting quickly and causing dangerous excess loads. Not sure how well it'd work in snowy areas to put extra weight on a roof and encourage snow build-up where snow weight is already a big hazard.
The innovation in this space is mind-blowing. Love the integration of form and function.
It's nice to hear about a project that was started a while ago and thus has had time to reach comercial deployment. Keep up the good work.
I like this idea. Simple. Effective. Makes use of space that would otherwise not be utilized.
Thank you for keeping business concepts like Return on Investment front and centre in your presentations.
I love it, Dave. It's a real winner. Your videos are extremely good too. Keep it up 👍🏻
Cheers David. Much appreciated
An extremely elegant design. It deserves to be a great success.
Fingers crossed!
I love solutions that use pre existing parts and specifications!
It's great to see that just utilising the top of the high rise like that can produce such a massive majority of the energy needs for the whole tower!
Community energy has always been my hope and aim, ever since my Mum campaigned in the 1980s for our local government to move to renewable energy independence for the island nation where I grew up - didn't work, they still rely on oil and gas: but it left me with an understanding of the concepts and good sense of local renewable power for the community.
This would add options for city dwellers of concrete jungles to participate in self-power living, solar and wind. Elegant solution. Hopefully the Fossil Fuel Demons don't attack the permitting process.
Yes and no need for huge new infrastructure investment in transmission lines! That should also be taken into consideration when calculating "levelized cost of energy production".
@@robertstrader3267 Yes, good point. I could envision some heat battery system carrying energy to the basement structure where all the power distribution and concrete is located anyways. Big thermal battery with a hot water pipe going to the roof, for instance. Get the battery weight off the roof and retrofit even more buildings.
Islands are probably the best use case for renewable energy. Your Mum had the right idea. I wonder if they'd change their minds about it today, with the current price of oil and gas.
@@Kevin_Street We are all on one big island.
Ever since I read about this system I have included it in all my housing dreams. I love that it can be retrofitted too.
And as for community ownership, any set up that takes control of electrical power out of the hands of for-profit private companies or the government and puts it in the hands of people is a win in my book.
it would be interesting to see how its efficiency scales with size. hopefully small units would present as much as a benefit for single family houses as these larger units.
@@toddberkely6791 Nope
Simple, elegant. Cutting costs by 85% is pretty damn good.
Lovely! Thanks for this. I love the idea, and even the community ownership is intriging. It does matter what the ownership of the units in the building or building itself is. What immediately comes to my mind is maintenance. 25 years isn't really that long of a time.
Thanks Susan. I suspect these systems will last far longer than their quoted lifetime.
25yr service life seems pretty long if you're 25; Less so if you're not. Often that 25yr quote is for 80% capacity. So after 20yrs, 80% of initial rating is still produced. In comparison nuclear power plants are often 60 year total design life, then you have a bunch of radioactive waste and concrete to deal with. Not to mention the radioactive mining to get that radioactive material to begin with.
If you're looking for a deal on solar panels, buy used. They are at a point in their design life where they have been replaced for commercial use, but still putting out 80%-90% of their rated power.
I imagine the same for this system: sell the PV after 20 years. Those will go into a ground mount system, and new panels will be installed on the roof where space is a premium. This can be done with a wrench.
The wind turbines really only need bearings and possibly a motor coil rewound with copper. Not a huge issue, and plenty of motor shops exist currently to do exactly that.
One thing that isn't a wear part is the geometric design. This is really the big advantage here of using the same square area twice-over for both wind and solar.
I don't like flat roofs, not one bit. But if you have one, this system seems really elegant. Hopefully it is widely adopted and quickly.
@@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 handling large lightweight panels on a windy rooftop will require more than just a wrench but yes, it is feasible.
@@alanhat5252 Fair point; two wrenches.
This is probably the most exciting system you've highlighted to date! Not least because -it's actually here today-! One benefit of LEED certified buildings is they often put soil and vegetation on the roof for cooling and insulation, which certainly helps, but being able to instead harness energy while shading the building is super exciting! Especially given that every rooftop component would have better performance and/or longevity if they're protected from solar and heat radiation.
Oh, HAI! =)
Love the integrated complimentary technologies here. Get the costs right, and this is a big winner that could be made ubiquitous. Like your enthusiasm Dave!
I live in the USA and in recent years there have been many warehouses constructed where I live. This application would be perfect fit , there are so many they feasibly could be power plants as well! One can dream ….
Epic idea. everyone loves 'free power' especially if the cost is built into the purchase price of the new residence.
I really have to hand it to the Netherlands, being on the front line of climate change, they are taking the lead in trying to implement new technologies that should help mitigate the amount of greenhouse gases they produce. This extremely clever integration of technologies looks like a winner, I’m actually going to forward the info to the group within our company that looks at reducing the not-insignificant impact of our operations. As a bonus, it looks as if this will pay for itself in a very reasonable time frame.
Solar panels in the Netherlands are carbon positive due to the fact that they are made with electricity from coal and the Netherlands doesn't have enough sun to get the most out of PV panels.
@@derekcraig3617 Source?
@@derekcraig3617 and yet even if that’s a fact (made with power from coal) it’s irrelevant. Before we had coal or oil we had wood, and that’s what we used to smelt the first metals, which were then used to produce the boilers that consume the coal you seem to be so fond of. Does this surprise you? It’s called bootstrapping, you should look up the concept. Let me jump you ahead a few decades… humanity, after a period of time is able to produce sufficient quantities of energy from renewable sources to power all consumer and industrial needs, including to produce solar panels and wind turbines with no use of fossil fuels. At which time we’ll be able to (mostly) retire them. And trolls, or paid shills such as yourself will have to move on to whining about something else.
@@sjsomething4936 wait, how am I fond of coal? where did I say I love coal?
@@derekcraig3617 You didn't - but why such an irrelevant comment in the first place?
Once again you have provided so much information on how countries can alleviate supply problems with proper planning and governments enforcing the use of such innovations.
It's refreshing to see a company make use of tried and tested modular technology rather than trying to re-invent the wheel with exaggerated claims from weird and wonderful designs that rarely stack up to any tangible results - well done and I hope to see these on every tall building in time to come!
I'd love to see a version of this that not only has PV, but also solar heating elements. That would be way more useful for residential buildings. One could run smaller heat collectors in between the PV panels, and on a full rooftop that should yield enough heat for at least the warm water generation, even in winter.
Don't need heat collectors for hot water.
They could have chosen to water cool the panels.
That gives them lots of hot water, and makes the panels even more efficient.
that might be complicated to do. Water is not exactly light, and the amount needed to heat a multi-story building would weigh tons. You would have to reinforce the roof and add pipes throughout the structure to get the hot water into each room. Running electrical cables is a lot easier. The added complexity and maintenance may make it not worthwhile even in a new purpose-built building, let alone retro-fitting an existing one.
I agree with Anthony. The econmics of solar heating elements got worse over the last couple of years with PV falling stronger in price and the rising installation costs playing a bigger role in solar heating. Combining heat pumps with PV is often times a sensibel solution
@@lordgarion514 Europe even summers are not really that hot. But that is going to be a real problem in Asia, particularly South Asia. Summers routinely reach 40C plus plus. But I find water cooling to be messy and air cooling far more efficient.
@@janami-dharmam
No one cares what you find, AND you're wrong.
The absolute scientific fact is that using water is more efficient at cooling things than using air.
And that's simply because water moves more heat than air does.
"One litre of water can bring about 3000 times more energy out from a system when compared with one litre of air. This comes from the physical properties of air: it’s heat conductivity is poor."
Another benefit of rooftop solar like this, particularly for short wide buildings like malls and light commercial/industrial space, is that it greatly reduces the need for air conditioning keeping hot sun off the roof. So not only generates electricity, is also reduces demand for electricity.
Synergism. Its an often miused word, but not here. Good thinking. Good presentation!
Thank you :-)
Very interesting concept and utilization of roof top space.
Fantastic. I have been saying for a while that we need to combine renewable energy production technologies to increase utility. This is a perfect and brilliant example. Thanks for the good content as always.
it also cools down top floor of building, they can also collect water by putting mesh around building, it traps humidity from the air and turns it into usable water. building can collect that water for self usage if they use this type of net mesh with tiny threads to collect water in it's entire wall areas
During my education years I was taught to utilize ' non-linear ' thinking whenever planning to undertake a new project and for its duration; same concept just a different way of saying it.
This roof mounted wind and solar energy generation system is a brilliant example of this way of thinking and how, with a little tweaking, so many other useful applications it could offer.
I still don't understand how it's "non-linear" or "lateral", it seems to me that it had simply more thought put into it?
@@buttonasas : you are absolutely correct. Both methods are simply ways to remind one to keep on looking for additional ways to solve a problem or for additional applications for your new information. Thinking outside the box is yet another way of saying to keep thinking !
@@tedbomba6631 There is no box!
Add yet a little whipped cream on that desert, any A/C units up there on the roof, as well as the roof itself, are now in the shade AND getting a lot of air across them as well. Yet another win!
But they’d also emit heat, which then reduces the efficiency of the solar panels so there’s a tradeoff to be made. It certainly might be worth it as the wind would quickly disperse and carry away the heat, it’d require a cost/benefit analysis to determine if overall would be better or worse.
Eindhoven is a lovely city with some interesting and attractive architecture - a development like this will fit in well.
Excellent news, a modular system makes including it in designs a no brainer.
It's already implemented, second one is close to be built, next to the train station
Wonderful project. Hope the ibis team finds great success . Thank you for sharing
Neat deployment of technology for power production! Maximizing the utility of flat roofs in this way makes a lot of sense to me. I hope they have a snow removal feature for those solar panels in colder climates like here in Canada since it would be a heart stopping job to broom them off. Lastly, $0.08-0.12 per kWh seems high relative to typical wind power but I suppose the bonus is that it can be use on site, that is, without transmission costs.
Sounds like a brilliant way to reduce the need for large scale, centralized electric power production?
and at the same time increase energy efficiency
of buildings already in existence. Not at all surprised that the Dutch would come up with
such an amazing system! They seem to do this
many different things. Bravo!!! I hope this idea
catches on throughout Europe, North America
and the rest of the world. It would appear to have
significant application in urban settings
anywhere. Thanks for bringing this wonderful
energy efficient technology to our attention!
Very much enjoy watching your podcasts, always
something new to learn, about so many different
topics. Thanks for all your efforts!
Brilliant idea well expressed.
Many thanks!
This is an amazing solution achieved by just connecting smartly the dots of available technology? Impressive! should be obligatory for such buildings
This is REALLY cool! I hope to see more of them.
This time you did not talk so fast. That is very good for people, who understand English but not as their native language. Thank you for that..
Greetings from North Franconia
Nice one, existing components while using them in a way that increases efficiency.
i like it!
The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind... Brilliant synergy of several uses.
Looks like a very good idea to utilize this usually useless space. Architectually valuable facilities like these could also be used in other places than rooftops where there is lots of open space to be covered and sunshaded, like parking lots, restaurant terraces and patios and so on. There's lots of potential in these facilities. Combine it with storage and we are a good long step further along the road to more sustainability and sustainable, local energy generation and usage.
You really need the height to make a system like this viable.
I think energy storage is not needed. Just sell the excess electricity to the grid and pay other costs for the community, like property tax.
@@timogronroos4642 Energy storage is very much needed for times when you generate way too much electricity, which would lead to throttling or shut down of your panels or wind turbines because the generation capacity exceeds the electricity need, and to store that excess energy for times when you don't generate enough to meet the demand, like nights, cloudy days, day without lots of wind, spike times, etc.
@@timogronroos4642 Thats much less efficient and useful unfortunately. Power transmission and tranformation losses are real.
Looks like Ibis Power has been having a think. Great news. Thanks!
Hope this works out well and can scale quickly to go on to more buildings. I had brief experience with some wind turbines on top of a building in Houston. Unfortunately one broke free and fell to the ground - luckily no one was hurt. Needless to say that was the end of that on the building!
Absolutely the way we should be going. I converted a van to a camper and did lots of lateral thinking and integration between systems, its extremely satisfying to see someone actually pushing for solutions to get us off fossil fuels, instead of govt.s just throwing targets out there and waiting around for people to separate their HDPE from flexible plastics.
That is very clever. With the weight there coul'd be at some buildings a problem. They are designed for the snow weight, this 2-300 kg/m2 adds to that and maybe exceeds the design limits.
The solution could be with the pv-modules. As far as I know, if you drive current through pv-panels, they produce heat, wich could be handy to melt the snow and with that to eliminate that weight.
Actually they produce light, with heat as a byproduct of inefficiency losses.
You'd be better off with a purely resistive heat trace running between cells, like the rear window defroster of an automobile.
With blocks to access the main Grid then mini and micro grids make a lot of sense that produce most of their own energy and only need small gains/losses to the main grid!
More lateral thinking for an improved design and functionality: Add railings by the side for a rainwater harvesting system as well + pump excess storage in the groundwater via a borewell.
Add some pipes and cisterns to include the concept of rainwater harvesting to make the system better.
Plus, cooling costs for your turbines can reduce if you make it flow through them before recharging the borewells beneath the buildings.
the solar panels are not installed "water tight", so the collection of the water from the panels is not a viable solution. But the water is coming to the roof anyway, so it's possible to collect it with or without this system
This speaks to the three questions that should be asked at the beginning of any project or design. What are we doing? Why are we doing it?
but seriously, this is a very interesting adjunct on the journey to ultra high capacity PV panels! I think the idea of individualized community ownership will have significant political challenges. Where multiple people are dependent on a resource, collective governance becomes problematic in terms of upkeep, monitoring etc
I'm normally a detractor of vertical-axis wind turbines, but this looks like a great use-case for them. The potential for community energy here is also very exciting! Great video again Dave.
@10:00So I thought the whole thing is pretty cool use of wind and solar but the idea of adding a perfect structure to be able to do window cleaning and maintenance on the outside of the building really truly gives it the highest rating.
I lived in a building for about 6 years that had a rooftop garden and was supposed to add extra energy with the solar panels but after the first year they just gave up. All the stuff overgrew that at one point the maintenance guy couldn't even access the rooftop without basically destroying the rooftop access lol. The plant growth also screwed up attachment points that they had engineered for people to do window cleaning that's sadly ended up in death of a window cleaner.
After that happened they couldn't find employees willing to do that work because of various financial concerns. Beyond that the idea of having a fixed well-designed way to be able to do all the maintenance on the outside of the building Plus drop energy costs is really fantastic. Lateral thinking is not just making things more effective but genuinely safer for everyone who has to interact with the building. Love the channel thanks for the cool video this week.
Cheers Morgan. Much appreciated
A very uplifting video Dave, thanks.
I have already invested in shares in Ripple Energy’s community energy project in Scotland.
I think that community energy has a big future. Good luck to Ibis.
I love it! My questions are: what happens during a hurricane? What happens when there's a meter of snow on top? And how many holes does this put in the roof?
Luckely we have allmost none hurricanes in The Netherlands. And (sadly because probably climate change) also seldom snow. I think it will be blown of for the biggest part. About the holes, I can’t answer but I don’t think that will be an issue. What may be an issue is the building quality and if there is a chance of earthquakes, a sad lesson from Turkey 😢
Great video. Incorporating so many ideas into the installation was awesome thinking.
This seems like a wonderful idea and I hope for success for the company.
As far as community owned power production, I strongly support the idea! I honestly think the best way forward is micro grids connected to the larger electrical grids. This sort of arrangement will prevent massive blackouts. Green energy production paired with storage is the path to this. It also will allow nearby micro grids to stabilize a micro grid that is experiencing high demand as well as the larger grid. A system like this allows for far greater grid stability across the board.
In the UK, Octopus are rolling out what they call "fan clubs"
If you've got a wind farm near you, then costs are reduced by up to 50% which is absolutely fantastic
I'd absolutely love to have some form of wind turbine on my roof, in this form of infrastructure too. "Current" wind turbines don't seem worth it for domestic usage
Excellent idea...Dr. Suma is a pure genius...
That tech looks extremely promising for every building in our cities! Would also be great to make home installations in a similar way, where applicable.
This would be crazy great in Arizona.
It’s decently windy there and the vertical spacing would help eliminate cooling costs.
Ahh i think this system is so beautiful. Maybe not aesthetically but very beautiful functionally. I think i'd heard of the term lateral thinking before but i didn't really absorb what it means but now i love the idea of it. Also yes i think community power grids will keep becoming more popular and i really hope melbourne opens up to more of these kinds of projects! I don't know of any/haven't seen or heard of anything beyond the occasional solar panels on roofs. I would be so happy if we bought a few of these and had them in the city. This is THE most amazing type of community power system i've seen 😄 and melbourne is often windy so it would be perfect. And i think the architechture is as pretty as you can make it for this power system but it does kind of draw my eyes right to it. Maybe it's not as eyecatching when you're walking around on the ground. But i still hope it is implemented in lots of places because the benefit of it is amazing and if any places are willing to sacrifice a little sky view from within the city the benefits are amazing and i have to love how lateral the whole design is
I love the appearance of this as well as all the other advantages. It gives the rectangular building a 'hat' that finishes it off elegantly.
The first thing that I would add to the construction, would be robust - maybe even rigid - nets, with meshes narrow enough that no bird can get through. Else the birds would not only create droplings and nests up there, but also get caught in the blades which would cause a lot of havoc.
I love it. This is what we need for sure! Not too much shade from trees up there, also plenty of wind. It is good to hear that vibrations were no issue.
I am off grid in Canada and I would love that sort of system scaled down for a house
#Wow that's the most promising approach to energy you've covered in a while.
It can be added to existing buildings
It doesn't depend on difficult-to-predict-but-currently-drying-out rain & snow (like most water power plants, especially the pumping-back ones).
It doesn't have some of the disadvantages of legacy wind turbines that slows down their distribution through legal leverage for NIMBY neighbours.
I love the synergy of wind and PV. Night versus day, windy grey and bright still weather. And the Netherlands are often really windy, especially near the coast
Great idea. What happens when another high rise building is build next to/close to the building with the power nest? I would anticipate some adverse impact due to shadowing (either wind, sun or both) from the new building.
extremely minimal.
I like this so much that I am going to apply for a job with IBIS. These are the kind of solutions that get us to a better worrl
Time will tell. But this looks very promising and off to a good start.
I would love to see this or something very similar absolutely every where that it makes sense to put them.
This is exactly what I have been writing on about here for years - synergistic, integrated, multi-tech solutions utilising already commercially existing technologies are the future. An Architect leading the way in this particular field is no surprise, especially a Dutch one :). As for the aesthetics there is so many different ways it can be designed within the operating parameters it will suit any building. Great stuff!
Your thoughts on all cities using thirsty concrete in there roads to reduce flooding black ice and sand mining helping ecosystems and the people in the city.
Also it will increase groundwater soil and aquifer levels.
But we should line the sides of roads with native plants and trees to reduce heat flooding wind noise pollution and air and ground pollution co2 too.
They stop absorbing water as they fill up with sediment/particulates.
Brilliant, I think this other design of roof turbines to generate green Energy is the best so far and very good because it can be used on existing buildings in villages, towns and cities. Thanks for sharing. I always look forward to what's new in green energy.
I really like the idea of this, certainly from an efficiency standpoint. One question I'd have, though, would be how to prevent birds and bats from being injured or killed by moving parts
since birds are killed by the overpressure of wind turbines, not by flying into them, its unlikely theyd be too dangerous.
That is correct
I read that "cats kill more birds than windmills." I don't know if that's a good thing about windmills or a bad thing about cats. However, I've never seen a cat kill a windmill.
This is such a cool invention! I must say, I would always prefer electricity generation over heat generation; You could instead use water-cooling underneath the solar cells, that way you would cool them and you could use the generated heat to heat your building. But this would require more plumbing and would not be such a standardised solution for every building, so I favour the wind cooled approach.
Would love to see them add a water collection system!
collecting water from where? thin air? But yes, solar powered desalination units are much needed for regular use. For agriculture, we need to haveathink...
@@janami-dharmam The flat, tilted surfaces of the solar panels naturally shed water - just add some collecting troughs [for rainfall] at the lower edges and send it to a tank.
This would not be drinking water but could serve as 'gray water' and used to water plants or flush toilets.
Simply put, this my most favourite channel on TH-cam. Although I am not scientifically minded to any degree and spent my life in law-enforcement, I am extremely interested in the human condition and how science and very smart people will, hopefully, get us to a better and sustainable future. I do realize that there is a vast difference between theory and concept as opposed to practical reality but I love seeing these new and cutting edge inventions being both put to the test and eventually becoming reality to improve humanity. Yes, there's a ton of failure from the lab to production and practicable application but its fun to dream and see the possibility of great ideas!!
Cheers Mark. I really appreciate your support :-)
I love all this about making electricity in different ways. The only thing that bothers me is that all these conversions between DC and AC interfere a lot with the radio. As a radio amateur, I am very affected by all this conversion. Even LED lights are a nightmare.
Stuff like that needs to be heavily shielded to avoid EMI with radio
As a supporter of radio, it appears that this is the prime time to invent a device that would counter the DC interference.
@@markapplejohn4376 "A device" that counters high current switching? (of things like rectifiers and PWM controllers)
As 1 suggests, you can shield it, but you can't reasonably _eliminate_ it. It is inherent in the operation.
So you either harvest wind and solar then invert it for use on the grid or you don't bother doing it at all.
I think we have a pretty good understanding of how electricity works at this point.
Filters are the solution. We can receive the signal from a spacecraft beyond the solar system (few watts of transmitter power) - right? But putting a good antenna at a decent point is getting more and more difficult for regular folks.
@@janami-dharmam The U.S. can't even get filters on commercial aircraft so the mobile telecoms can proceed with their 5G rollout.
In the '70's I used to bitch about the neighborhood kids on dirt bikes with CDI walking all over my rx
The more times change, the more they stay the same....
Great to see this getting attention.
Minor gripe: Henri Ford did not invent part standardization (nor the assembly line, for that matter). But yes, he did use it very effectively.
In the U.S. Eli Whitney is usually credited with part standardization due to his government contract for 15,000 muskets at the dawn of the 19th century.
The only way to fulfill that contract was to create interchangeable parts en-mass at his armory.
Around mid-century Samuel Colt was producing hundreds of his patented revolvers each day using interchangeable parts and assembly line style division of labour.
What Ford did best was to vertically integrate. They owned the mines, furnaces, mills and forges/stamping plants. They owned the forests and lumber mills that supplied their coach works and wheelwrights
@@jimurrata6785 textbook quality! I am impressed
@@eriktempelman2097 I grew up here in Connecticut and I'm a geek of industrial and material technology. 🤓
Most of our industry is gone, other than military contractors like Electric Boat, Sikorsky, P&W, Norden, etc...
This state was the epicenter of firearms production since the revolutionary war but the political climate is too hostile now.
Underside cooling will also prolong the life of solar panels
Provides options for city dwellers to participate in self-power living, solar and wind. Let's keep the Fossil Fuel Demons away from the permitting process THIS time.
This is approaching symbiotic design, almost biological elegance.
One thing i will note: if you have snowfall, you really do want your PV to be inclined to 60 degrees in winter. Snow tends to self-clear above that angle, but 2x as long for 30 degrees, and maybe not at all for less. Some articulation in the PV mount could help here, if only for the back row. This would increase venturi (can we say Bernoulli?) effect by introducing a high pressure zone at the rear and above the airflow. The air below at the turbine level will accelerate to meet that airflow and re- balance the pressure gradient. Of course, the whole system would need to be considered.
I do like this approach though. Keep It Simple and Symbiotic: my personal engineering mantra of KISS.
_Also, keep such well organized and clearly thought-out videos flowing our way, Sir!_ Much appreciated!
Non-profit social services agency in Fairbanks, Alaska is planning a building. I would love to have robust renewable energy. Will this work in the arctic? How do you clean the solar panels? We get dust and some ash.
The plan includes hardpoints for the window washing crew.
If there is already a group of professionals there on the roof, cleaning panels seems trivial
Thinking like this will change the whole power system. This is a great design, and goes directly to the cost issues - both installation and aesthetics.
RARE THING.................COMMON SENSE ENGINEERING BY COMBINING ALL ASPECTS OF THE STRUCTURE INTO IT'S DESIGN AND FUNCTIONALITY. 😄
I saw it a few months back. I could see the blades moving but it is so much more. Very exciting solution.
3 kW per turbine seems low. It would be interesting to see how the ROI (including installation and maintenance costs) compares with a traditional MW-scale turbine on land or sea.
Yes good point
Thank you! 😉
The 3kW required a wind speed of about 26.8 mph (43.2 kph based on 12 mps). That seems pretty high. Is it reasonable?
I'm very interested in this one because it's actually at the commercial stage.
Two blearing Red Flags: Vertical axis wind turbine and Architect.
Bravo!! Solar on Every Roof!! Honestly, let's target resilient distributed power and storage for all residential and light commercial, with energy saving from a DC standard for lighting and appliances with NO AC inverter or grid connection. No inverter power and heat losses, replacements or expenses. No line losses, transformer losses, and mass infrastructure upgrading or maintenance.
I would imagine the system also produces a marginal decrease in A/C cooling costs by providing shade for A/C units and increased cooling air under the structure. And if the flooring is painted in l highly reflective white paint that to would have a marginal effect on A/C bills
Roofs of high rise buildings are usually clutteres up with AC´s Vent systems etc. Some work to do there.
Every time I bring up lateral thinking the conversation goes sideways.
:-)
Finally a practical energy solution that can be executed and scaled with current technology! I like this a lot.
Very exciting work, hoping they are able to scale - and not get sabotaged by Big Oil
What happens when a rotor decides to spit a blade?
I'm reminded of one of the early, and fairly large, eggbeaters installed up in Canada. They were doing repairs on the brakes and since it was thought that these rotors would not self-start, they didn't bother to tie it down.
When they returned it was running without a load and they had no way to control it. So they put a video camera on it and waited.
It self-destructed before the winds slowed. And since it was a guyed structure it happened dramatically. A blade broke lose near the base, swung up tangling and cutting the guy wires and then falling in a heap.
Maybe they have a plan for blade failures but it's not self-evident.
Neat concept, but I can only imagine the number of dead birds that will be found on that roof! They might need to put some type of wire cage around the blades...
Windows and glass balustrades are the real bird killers though.
Probably about 1% of the birds already killed in that area from transport, cats, flying into buildings. Worth it.
Would they fly into the wind turbines though? It's not like the other type of turbine where there is clear sky in front of the bird one moment, and the next moment the blade appears and chops their head off; in this design the turbine takes up the same space all the time and should be visible. Moreover, there are the struts holding the structure up that the bird will see first, and they surely won't be inclined to fly fast between the louvres and struts because they can see those obstacles. The fact that the design supposedly increases wind speed over the top of the roof might in fact discourage birds from even landing there I think, as it may make it a less hospitable site. I have no expertise in the field of ornithology, but my layman's understanding of the problem of birds flying into man made objects is that they are hard to see (like glass windows) or periodically not there (the 'other' type of wind turbine blade).
Apparently they have looked at this potential problem and found that it simply does not happen int the way that it does with horizontal axis turbines.
@@seanlander9321 And housecats, lots and lots of housecats...
Brilliant concept and design. 85 % self sufficiency changes the whole paradigm.
When a title or a headline ends in a question mark the answer is invariably no.
Name a smarter rooftop energy generation system?
You're spot on. I'd suggest that any title containing the word "insane" is not worth watching...
And yet, it is yes on this one
How wrong you will prove to be. A review in 5 years will certainly prove how wrong you were. This is brilliant idea and fits neatly into communities developing their own solutions through renewable energy and storage.
Where is that word used in this title?? Or any of my videos? Ever?
it's a brilliant idea I saw it on another chanal we need to make use of every bit of energy we can so to get wind and solar from the same roof is a win-win.