How many winnners did he have in 6days ? Loveing show. Bookies banning ppl if you win money & can wee do anytnik about. Bad bad bookies out there. They love losses
So glad you’ve done this video Caan. Myself (and many others) have discovered and pointed this out in the past, but having your reach in the industry it’s great that you are championing the average joe. Keep up the good fight and the great video content mate 👍
Stumbled across this last night. Terrific stuff. I love tipsters, they drive down the price of their selections leaving the rest to drift, creating value. Tipsters create the narrative for a race, every race, good to read and consider but that's about it. Great channel, thank you. Subscribed!
Sweet Mist was given on Tuesday 9/11/21 as an e/w bet by Hugh Taylor showing odds of 125/1 . His article was available to view at 9-08am and by 9-30am I was looking for best odds, which were 25/1. Sweet Mist finished 3rd at 16/1 and guess what this morning 10/11/21 Hugh shouted to the rooftops 125/1 hits the frame. This massive exaggeration is par for the course and his yearly results are also totally exaggerated.
If it's online by 9:08 then by 9:09/9:12 most bookies will have slashed their prices by about 30% with the lower priced runners, but even bigger cuts with the larger priced selections. I'm fairly sure that the bookmakers have software which polls Hugh's tipping page waiting for the tip update and then auto update their own prices, and those that don't will notice an avalanche of bets for his selections which will trigger it own reaction. So yes it is very difficult to get Hugh's prices, but any tipster who is successful at the prices they specify will have the same problem. If Caan repeated his experiment with the oddschecker price history screen (which has time stamped price changes at the minute level) then we would have an independent verification of when price changes occurred and we would be able to know if the prices Hugh specifies where available with the specified bookies. If they were not available on a regular basis I’m sure someone would have already pointed this out with the oddschecker screens to back them up.
I completely agree with everything you just said. In my experience, the majority of tipsters operate this way, with inflated returns none of us could ever achieve. I'm sure many of us have been lured in this way, only to realize we are losing more money than we're actually winning !
Ye. I'm astounded by the amount of people that have appeared from nowhere on social channels to then tell me I am wrong... of the back of seeing the facts. Most of them say things like 'but he gets good winners'. It's like FML head in hands moment.
Spot on. His tips often do go on a late drift but for the effort you need to put in and the inability to get the price on 85% of his tips, the time is better spent doing your own research and learning how to pick them yourself.
As ever, great video Caan! It's the unabashed, shameless, barefaced lying of these crooks that's so distasteful. Stealing out in the open, whilst pretending to help punters. Outrageous.
Great video. So good to see the situation clearly explained! But, despite this clear and honest explanation there will be people who don't want to believe it and will insist on learning the hard (expensive) way...
Tips are for punters...... most punters don't worry about the price, they just worry if the horse might win or not....... Tipsters have always taken advantage of this fact - Good video proof of this - Well done for your efforts!
Well said Caan, I think we exchanged comments on another video about this before. I checked 2 years of HT tips, cross referenced with in-running highs, and it was impossible to replicate his record even putting bets at advised price kept at the off to go in running because many were front runners and never drifted. You can check his tips on oddschecker and see the timeline of the horses price dropping. Tranchee 4.55 haydock on Friday was tipped at 13/2 at 09.08, by 09.10 WillHill had cut it to 9/2. By 09.13 nobody was offering higher than 6. That Nine Elms one was absolutely ridiculous though, pity the goons who think HT is a Messiah.
tip from the top, when he does his tips check to make sure the horse is a donkey then lay it, return after couple of hours and collect your profits :) as traders we love tipsters and this is why
Great video. Is there an option for Hugh to answer the ‘charges’? I believe that you are 100% correct in the information given and that it creates such a poor opinion to the bookies at these invisible prices. Pls keep up the good work in highlighting these discrepancies. My personal gripe is that all customers should be able to have any offers that are promoted and ( like in Australia) there should be a blanket minimum win option for every bookmaker. If these minimums can not be guaranteed then the viability of the licence should be reviewed as it must be a fair playing field all around
@@CaanBerryProTrader I honestly think this is what we must push for. We are never going to get a situation where bookies will accept all bets for any returns. But to say ‘this is what they do in Australia, can we please have it here’ seems like a fair resolution for all concerned. £500 winnings must be offered to all punters irrespective of who is making the bet. Above and beyond that they can have their restrictions etc.
Fair play Caan. Telling it as it really is out there. With bookies it is the nature of the beast that they will shorten up horses tipped up by the highest profile tipsters and certainly Pricewise of the Racing Post. In the old days on Channel 4's the Morning Line on a Saturday morning, John McCririck used to boldly state that certain bookies will guarantee a certain price on a certain horse until say 10am. Nowadays that simply won't happen. The internet and Betfair changed everything. Brilliant for traders, terrible for gamblers (unless you can get the right price and stake available on Betfair)
Agree with all of the above , but just as a point to note some not all usually drift back out closer to the off. But yes backing ht tips will get u restricted its worth reading ht rationale if u are a newbie. If loses then u can often get double the price next time if conditions suit.
No didn't bother. Some time back I made a comment and a whole load of his followers seemed to troll me each day... no idea why. I guess because it challenged their beliefs (such is twatter).
If I was Hugh with a large following I'd play the exchange for a green book. I'd back it first to win then give it to my followers then back to loose... But I can't imagine he would do that.
I wonder if Hugh gets the prices. His accounts must be marked , so what are the chances ? Clearly he can't even get a decent bet on BF as not enough liquidity the night before. Great vid exposing what's really happening out there.
I challenged taylor about this 2 years ago got no reply he use to put his tips up at 11am after me and dozens of others pulled him he then changed it to 9AM The lot of them are chancers if you cant read a race card stick to bingo by the way im 75 yrs old
Another great video. Surely if the tips are overbet they become a value lay? Have you looked at if you laid these selections at the price after the tips were given out?
@@CaanBerryProTrader You're correct , it's not that simple. If you get HT price at 10.00 long term that makes profits as we know. Let's assume it gets backed to 5.00. Because he's a long term winner the horse by difinition has a good chance of winning so laying is a bad idea , also the BF starting price has been proven to be VERY accurate so you can't make money laying at BFSP. As Caan says there's a chance of catching a drift but that's about only way i can see a realistic profit.
Love this. I followed a tipster for 4 months and had their advised Vs BSP for every selection. Their EV was shocking for that period. Certain all tipsters are the same and the affiliated tipsters are jst a great money making model for bookmakers
Hugh does advise that his tips should only be followed if you can get 80% of the highest advised tipping price. It would be interesting to see what his P/L would be over the years adjusted for that.
Yep; nothing new here. Was fully aware of that. Not suggesting anything, but if anyone was to know what Hugh was going to tip (like, for instance, Hugh himself), you could put a big bet on before the tip went live, knowing that the price would then drop significantly due to a load of punters piling on, and then trade it out for a really good guaranteed profit. Would be an excellent earner. Not implying anyone would do it, of course.
Lots of others have done the same. I think anyone in their right mind would. Trouble is, you couldnt get bigger prices on the exchange in some cases... and in others, the bookies would have banned you.
Spot on here mate, in fact the only way I’ve found in order to get the same prices they advertise is you have to use your boosts to up the odds. Which completely defeats the purpose of using the boost. Also exactly correct in if you back tipsters horses the bookies don’t want your business. I’ve had WH, mansion, and bet365 refuse me having an account now for backing Andy Holden horses.
EXCELLENT WORK as per usual on this vid Caan. Been thinking the same for years they are just preying on the gullible. those prices were never available to the public. I'm sure Hugh probably lays off his liability of as well as the price shortens. smiling to himself thinking he's the god of tipping.
I really did try to get them too. One or two may have changed shortly before I got there... but there were certainly a lot where I was looking at it thinking it was never this price.
Hi Caan, when Hugh Taylor releases his tips at around 9am the prices differ like you say but how many of these prices actually drop a lot lower before the off eg you mentioned nine elms at 25/1 but on the exchanges at 14's do you know how many of his tips lower before the off being a high profile tipster i would say a lot of punters follow his tips just thinking that if they do lower a bit then wouldn't that be a good trading opportunity. hmmmm
Sure, didnt want it to be personal though. No point going through them one by one... there are several at it. I think from the comments its quite clear that a lot have people realise whats going on. I just feel sorry for those who don't. ATR has 6.6 million views a month online appartently. That's a lot of cannon fodder!
@@CaanBerryProTrader The Bookmakers all subscribe to any decent tipster service and will cut the price as they hear the same message, The punter who pays the tipster has no chance of making profit
Well explained caan, most tipsters working for these sites or publications are making money out of punters win or lose, nothing wrong with that but it is good to know the truth. The racing post is totally funded by bookmakers but I find it a useful tool in making my OWN selections. Thanks for the upload👍
And on top of that, is it possible that those tipsters are profiting from the movement their own tips generate? Let's say Hugh was able to back at 22-25/1 the night before, he puts the tip as 25/1 but it is really 15/1 an on top of that all the sheep get on it and move it to 17/2 an he gets out on the exchanges for a huge trade just profiting on mass psychology.
This is a good point, insider trading, if he knows he has followers he can back it on exchange, release the tip, people pile on and he lays it off ..... what's worse is that it being associated with various bookies and a racing information supplier this builds in non-existent credibility, IMHO
I have been checking that before, as well as tipsters from TipsterEmpire. Hardly ever could get advised odds. Backing on BSP was never profitable. Just thinking would that make any sense Lay all them tips at BSP ?
Great video mate, but as you probably sussed out, this type of price issue problem is really nothing new, long before social media was utilised as main platform, trade price tips highlighted by Tom Segal Racing Post paper column were also unavailable to the general shop betting, every morning!
Caan I have never heard one word of useful advice from you. What do you think about Stephen Harris ? Why don’t you try and pick some horses, preferably before the off .
Don't know him personally. Why would I pick some horses? It's all price dependant, would only be a short period of time to the start if I were to pick any, and even then, there's far more profitable way to operate.
Feel like I have to defend Hugh Taylor here he puts up his selections and always explains the reasoning behind it. He has said for years that people probably can't get on at the same price because the bookies cut the odds instantly same as pricewise etc. I have bet the night before and love it being a Hugh tip the next morning for obvious reasons ! You can't judge on SP because of the effect these people have on the market ... profit is made on the price you bet at. As for the social media tipsters who say let's make £1k from £10 then why aren't they doing it ? lol Value is the thing ...
Hey Danny, that's nice, but did you not see the video? The prices that are quoted are often not available... and if they were, you'd be called a dirty arber or something. Several say but some prices are available, and they may be, but that still means the overall record of results is not accurate or reflective.
I have noticed that once his tips are announced the price often drops quite considerably as people pile on. What sometimes also happens is that this overreaction often sparks a round of laying that can on occasions drive the price back up and beyond the original price at the time the tip was released. In other words, while it's absolutely true what Caan has said here, it's also true that there is potential for the price to increase to a point beyond where it was in the morning and therefore be of better value, once the bandwagon has run out of steam and the price reverses. Whether or not that means the price ever reaches the odds quoted in the tip, I just don't know.
I have 4 years of records of Hugh bets. I managed to get on average 60% of the value he has advised. Which is still a very good ROI. Sure you have to be quick to get the price but efficiency pays off. You need multiple screens ideally.
What use is getting 60%? Gives a totally false result. Having sat and looked at the updates too, the prices just aren’t there you can’t get em (maybe a couple) but even then you get banned for beating the line. I guess you don’t have any betting accounts after 4 years then? Be lucky to make an account last 4 days if ya betting value.
Pretty obvious to the viewers who understand betting...(and them Affiliates) but unfortunately for anyone who is disagreeing with you i think they must be quite naive.. Good Vid mate
Only 1 tipper ive ever made money off and whos each way tipped prices are actually avaiable at time of posts..some guy called scabba on twitter...ive tried to follow this Hugh Taylor guy and like u say the prices are hardly ever true,,,good job man
@@CaanBerryProTrader Very true mate- Check out this Scabba guy on Twitter- seems genuine/prices are available hes up over 25% in about 200 each way naps! Everytime ive followed his tips the prices have been there, Cheers Caan
@@pauljones-oe3ux - because he is relatively unknown. Not really Hugh Taylor's fault, if bookies reduce the prices on his selections as soon as he has put a bet on, or posted his selections. Historic results should be provided at SP or BSP though, (as it should for all other tipsters).
Let’s face it Oddschecker prices/bookies are down to 2 or 3 traders.. the rest are sister companies or use the same technology/website.. the game is getting more rigged by the day.. punters are & will leave. It sadly is putting people off the sport of horse racing which I have loved since I was a kid.
Great point at the end there, it really makes no sense whatsoever that bookmakers would promote genuinely profitable tipsters through ATR. I think horse racing is quite a niche sport so tipsters have quite a powerful role in the community, especially for newcomers. When I used to bet on horses, it was pretty much always on tipster's selections.
They would use tipsters like this the same way they use certain boosts which may not be profitable long term as can be negative ev. But it’s highly likely that the average punter isn’t exclusively going to stick to hugh’s tips and will lose over the long run. Another form of advertising really to get people to bet with them.
Just like Oddsmonkey....trying to get the price with any bookie for extra places....well I obviously gave up on that! I’m sticking to laying to back drifters to make my tiny amount of dosh per day which I am over the moon with lol.
I could get his prices 3 or 4 years ago using a website monitor (manually refreshing the page you are always going to be further behind) and could often get the highest price, Hell I could sometimes get £20 or so on Betfair and then lay off when people got on a min or so later. I'm gubbed on most bookies though now so stopped a few years ago as there is next to no money early on for the horses especially for the bigger priced ones. Something changed a few years ago tho in that even with a website monitor that refreshes the page every sec the price was always gone so either the people putting it up on the site are letting someone know before it's released or someone there is in with the bookies and allow them to cut prices before released. You've got very little chance getting the info early enough just clicking refresh on the screen yourself that's like trying to trade with a 2 sec delay on betfair website while others are using Geekstoy/BetAngel etc.
Even sat there hitting hard refresh on the keyboard every 2 seconds? I looked at this mornings one, the exchange historical traded shows the closest price to the suggested tip was 3 points smaller.
@@CaanBerryProTrader I used to have to call a mate which horse and race it was years ago to get on because he was just refreshing the page and I was using a website monitor, like I said tho even with a monitor I was unable to get the price they state now and it seemed to change a few years ago. I'd rather just sit there waiting by my screen and wait for a noise to tell me of the change instead of having to spam the refresh button all the time, In theory it could be setup to even place the bet for you so you don't have to but you would have to set it up to have all the races and horses listed in the code so not sure it would be worth it with the time frame. Love the videos and book , keep up the good work.
You couldn't scrape or place the bet automated. Bookies spend a lot of money to stop people doing that, they also delay their pricing logged out for a few minutes... pretty confident there's bob hope and no hope of getting the price. Like I said in the video, I suspect some of those prices were never even avail. Just thought it was worth sharing following up comments from a previous vid.
@@CaanBerryProTrader Ok wasn't sure on the placing bet thing as I know you can do it to buy stuff from other sites etc when it comes back in stock so you can automate stuff but I can see how a bookie can block it. 100% tho around 3 or 4 years ago you could get the prices mentioned but it all changed a few years ago as I used to lay off on Betfair a min or so later when people had backed the price in on Betfair. Like you said tho now there seems to be no chance of getting the price.
If you disregard form on horses and ignore the tipsters BS just value bet using a decent oddsmatcher and keep refreshing every 30 seconds or so you can get the bookie prices . You need to be double quick as they last about 30-60 seconds. It can be done and gives you and ROI of around 19%. You need three or four computers running in parralel and it takes some practice but can be done. I managed it for 14 months back in 2017-18 and of course you need to MA as the gubbing gets serious. You need to also have an appreciation of the maths to set the filters correctly on the oddsmatcher.
Trouble is even if you were smart enough to get on something fancied the night before, chances are the odds were only available for peanuts. As for bookies even if the prices (on bigger prices especially) were even available in the first place chances are again they were only putting up a couple of hundred pounds. All it takes is a handful of tenner bets to wipe out the early prices. Likely the horse will trade at a bigger price at the time of the race and probably lose anyway.
Thats the other thing, seeing bookies don't publish if a bet was even taken at that price. We've all tried to submit a bet one time or another and it's given you the loading cog followed by a significantly shorter prices... particularly if you were using William Hill it seems.
getting the prices is/was a 2 man job, used to get loads on several years in the shops at no less than 1 point off his top quoted price, for a good while, but no chance these days.
@@CaanBerryProTrader probably now but when we did it, 5 seconds from me relaying bet to my mate is shop, to him getting cashier to check price. Only problem was if somebody was at the counter putting bet on.
@@CaanBerryProTrader For reference, my view is that tipsters should be forced to be compared to BFSP. Yes they can have another column which they have 'P/L @ Advised prices', but BFSP is the only level playing field in my opinion (not that my opinion is worth anything!)
I was just thinking the same. If his tips suddenly cause the odds to artificially drop by a large margin isn't there potential to make money laying them (effectively what the bookmaker is doing)?
Seems to be the same with many other tipsters too. I’m currently trialling a couple and the odds they put out (often the night before) are never available even if instantly getting there before anyone else, it’s almost like they completely made the price up themselves. I’ve emailed both of them to tell them so and received no response. Funny that. Has no one checked his results to sp? Perhaps knowing what his selections are and therefore knowing what’s gonna fly in can be a way of finding better value elsewhere in the race. Hmm I like the look of Lameboy the forecast favourite in the 3.30, let’s see, ah Hugh’s tipped a different horse in this race sweet, ill wait for mine to drift before placing the bet. Maybe u can make a mint out of opposing Hugh
The thing I would say about this video is that a lot of people’s betting strategy would be trying to predict hughs predictions... after studying his tips for a while you would be able to guess his tips quite well. It would not be his fault or problem that the prices would have shortened by the time the tip is released the prices would definitely have been available at some point, even if it is the night before. He is a journalist and should not be a sort of financial advisor. He Clearly knows his stuff but you would be better off trying to work out his system for picking his bets rather than going in blindly backing the selections
As you quote in the description , "As mentioned in the video, you may be able to get the price of some selections if you're super-fast." Therefore this video is pretty redundant I mean Hugh's never argued his prices last long. Thats the price you pay for being an excellent tipster and consequently having a large following. Nothing to see here.
Hugh Taylor obviously knows his horses the problem is any tipster that goes public will ultimately fail his target audience. Profit is fragile and the most fearsome predator is publicity.
GREAT SUBJECT CAAN.....I HAVE CHECKED HUGH TAYLORS BIG PRICED TIPS ON MANY OCCASIONS......AND HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE.....THE PRICES ARE FICTICIOUS....AND WORKING HAND IN HAND WITH BOOKMAKERS.....IN MY OPINION...INFLATING THE PRICES TOO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE HES 100S OF POINTS UP....WHICH IS ...B.S.....
The only valid comment he made was at the end regarding bookies closing winning accounts. As for Hugh Taylor I don't know what else he can do? It's he who puts in the hard work to find those overpriced in his view, so those prices HAVE to count when advised. Of course you can't get on at those prices, but Hugh's a marked man and a very good judge with a following
@@CaanBerryProTrader but this hasn't been proven or come to light yet. It's more than possible to get on his tips at the top price. Maybe not all of his tips but certainly the majority. Myself and a few friends manage it day to day so I find your video a bit of an exaggeration and sounds more like a gripe than anything else.
"It's more than possible to get on his tips at the top price" pretty sure the video proves not. Just look at yesterday and today. 40/1 Mr Buttons, not a hope in hell of getting that (20/1 avail) today was the same advised 25/1... 14/1 was available tops. I'd guess you're either affiliated or just one the mob the industry thrives on, deluded.
If you would like me to send you evidence of just a few bets at top price of be happy to do so? From another quick view of your video alone notable ones are Tranchee, Twilight Calls & Nine Elms.
Right, I agree and disagree. His prices generally are available with the bookies when they go on-site, but traders are all over it. They're tasked with being on ATR and hitting refresh just like any of his followers are at that time each day, and it's quicker for them to enter their tool to shorten the prices than it is for the punter to navigate to the race, add it to a slip and stake it. The advantage goes to the trader. That's fine, you can't blame Hugh for this. He's doing his job and because he's that good at his job, is why we've gotten to a situation like this. Nobody is going to achieve his long-term profit, but that doesn't make him of no use, he shakes up the market to where anyone with a bit of understanding can take him on and get value elsewhere - during the best of times he'll hit a 20% strike rate, probably averages out to between 10-15%, so there are 80-90% of races you can take him on and win. The only area I do have a problem with Hugh's column is that they record his stats at the best available price, which you correctly pointed out. If bet365 is 33/1, and everyone else is 20/1, the stats for a 33/1 are going on his record. I was in the tipping game for 8 years and I know (everyone should know) that is the wrong thing to do. Tipster stats SHOULD ALWAYS be recorded to the GENERALLY AVAILABLE price - i.e a price available at 4 or more top bookmakers at the time of posting. So whilst I know he's very good, he's not quite as good as his long-term ROI indicates for that very reason, but the above is actually out of his hands. ATR choose to do it this way for the reason you mentioned, which is the affiliate links. End of the day, Hugh is very informative to beginner punters, use his work as learning material if nothing else and apply it to your own system over time. If you're already knowledgable, take him on, get extra value elsewhere as a result of his presence in the market. The man is a talented judge, but he's been priced out of the game at the smaller meetings he tends to cover. When he tips at the bigger festivals you should have no trouble following him - if you're inclined that way. The big mistake you made in this video was using betfair so prominently in your analysis. Betfair liquidity isn't worth a shit at that time of day, traders aren't following it until nearer race time. What you could have and should have done was use oddscheckers feature to search bookmakers previous prices available. You would have then been able to see exactly what time his odds were available to.
I think you need to realise that oddschecker isn't a gauge and neither is bookie prices. You can see them all day long, doesn't mean they'll take a bet at them! like a mirage, you can see but not touch.
I have been fascinated by the HT phenomenon for years and even from day one it cannot be described as profitable ..His highest R O I since inception in 2009 is 1.55 %-which means 15.5 profit on every 1000 invested, but then that is only at the ( advertised ) prices of course. In the last two years this has dipped to 1.13% & 1.16 % which makes it surely hardly worth the effort from that standpoint. Also when taken from the ubiquitous (net points profit ) which all tipsters like to use, again there has been a serious decline-going from 500 pts net in 2009 to 512 pts for the last 3 years combined ! As you say Caan clearly knows his stuff, but there is very likely no net profit to be had for punters who are only obtaining the best ( real world ) prices on offer for his selections.
You mis understand the ROI figure. The ROI of 1.55, actually means that if you put a 1,000 pound on you would have a profit of 550 pounds (plus your 1,000 pounds). To check you need to go through each monthly spreadsheet for 2018 (the year in question 2018 results ROI 1.55 +345pts), and total up the stake and profit. June for instance was stake = £75, profit = £119.9. Return On Investment is measured as (total returns/total invested). The ROI for June would have been (119.9+75)/75 = 2.59. Plenty of less profitable months bring the yearly ROI to 1.55. Since the total profit for the year was £345, the total stake would have been near £625.
Hi Caan - Sorry but I have to defend Hugh Taylor. Been using his tips from start in 2009 and it's a nice 2nd income. You have to be Super organised but it is possible. The rewards are so good that it's worth the effort. First off, I have a dedicated bookie for HT bets (not one of the bigger ones). My screen for that bookie is ready with all the day's races ready at one click. Sometimes you literally get 3 seconds - unlikely to get more than 10 seconds 80%+ (i.e 8-1 for advised 10-1) is ok but I usually get better than this and around half the time I get full price. >75% and I ignore that selection. You WILL get barred or stakes reduced, so you join a new bookie ( I've used numerous!!) After a bad run you can often bet at a bigger than advised price on Betfair at the off. Pete Couchman
Thanks for the comment, how'd you get the prices advised when they've changed before the tip is published? Genuinely curious on that one. It throws the results well off.
@@CaanBerryProTrader Not sure what you mean - if prices were higher prior to publishing then I guess it's just tough luck - maybe the staff at ATR get first shout! I don't see how how results could be affected though as he records advised prices at time of publishing.
Thats my point... there's no evidence they are that price at the time of publish and theres none that the bookie took a bet at the price. If you watch the video you will see in many instances they are not available at said price... which affect the results and puts them in the negative if you took the price that was certainly available. Plus most are arb prices so your account would be restricted super fast.
@@CaanBerryProTrader I notice that you show to 365 and LADS - It's been many years since I was allowed to use these and most other bookies that people have heard of. I use lesser known bookies and agreed, some are quick to close you down ..... but not all! Somewhat surprisingly you can on occasions even beat HT's price. Chuck in the odd £2 on a 3-3 draw for a Premiership match to make you look more random. I never even look at Betfair - not a chance there. When you say 6 seconds later etc .... this can be too slow - you really do need to be very quick - I probably wasn't for the first few months but got it right eventually. (I have even been known to bet £22 instead of £20 because it's fractionally quicker!
Caan....he's an absolute chancer. I used to follow him 3 or 4 years ago and could never get an advertised price straight after he put it up...imagine him at football tipping he'd have man city to win the league at 2/1 first thing tomorrow morning and say "it was available"🙈 😂😂 Buy the way if you're looking to hire a minder I'm available at £500 a day 😂😂
@@CaanBerryProTrader I'm fine mate..keep the content coming..I think more and more people are realising you know what you're talking about, especially after the stick you took about Football Index...I hope you've had a lot of apologetic messages from some of them since then 👍
The point about paying for tips it usually involves punters who stake relatively small stakes, £20 40 60 if said tip is advised at 10s & wins at 5s punter won't complain. But this tipster prices are deceitful, the tipster should be more honest & advise at tissue prices, even if its a free service just tell the truth
I believe you know enough about the betting markets to also know you are being deliberately disingenuous here. First of all, of course you can't make money following a 'celebrity' tipster who puts their tips out into the public domain. Duh! By virtue of the fact that Hugh IS a fantastic tipster, with a proven track record of selecting 'value' bets, the bookmakers have to immediately react and cut Hugh's tips blind to remove the value edge THEY acknowledge he finds on a regular basis! That's a huge tribute to Hugh! Secondly, simply by checking Oddschecker on a daily basis, I could confirm that the prices Hugh advertises on his column where available right up until the minute(s) before Hugh posts his column. That's an indisputable fact. Therefore, again, what you are actually criticising Hugh for is being good! If Hugh wasn't good, the bookmakers wouldn't cut their prices based on his tips and punters would therefore be able to get the prices quoted as a result. Bottom line, no of course you can't make money following Hugh Taylor or Andy Holding but that's BECAUSE they are proven to be fantastic judges, not because of some kind of underhand false advertisement of prices, as you imply. Check it out today. Hugh has one tip - GHAITH in the 14:00. Hugh advertised a price of 9/2, when in fact 5/1 was available with 888Sport up until 09:22.
Price always matters the most! As demonstrated in this strategy video: th-cam.com/video/iL4rmbwFwEY/w-d-xo.html
How many winnners did he have in 6days ? Loveing show. Bookies banning ppl if you win money & can wee do anytnik about. Bad bad bookies out there. They love losses
i realize I am kinda off topic but do anybody know a good website to watch new tv shows online?
So glad you’ve done this video Caan. Myself (and many others) have discovered and pointed this out in the past, but having your reach in the industry it’s great that you are championing the average joe. Keep up the good fight and the great video content mate 👍
Lots like it, unfortunately, Alan. Thanks. Hope it helps just a few to avoid throwing their cash at the wall.
More honest advice for punters and traders alike
Stumbled across this last night. Terrific stuff. I love tipsters, they drive down the price of their selections leaving the rest to drift, creating value. Tipsters create the narrative for a race, every race, good to read and consider but that's about it. Great channel, thank you. Subscribed!
Sweet Mist was given on Tuesday 9/11/21 as an e/w
bet by Hugh Taylor showing odds of 125/1 . His article was
available to view at 9-08am and
by 9-30am I was looking for best odds, which were 25/1.
Sweet Mist finished 3rd at 16/1
and guess what this morning
10/11/21 Hugh shouted to the rooftops 125/1 hits the frame.
This massive exaggeration is
par for the course and his yearly results are also totally
exaggerated.
If it's online by 9:08 then by 9:09/9:12 most bookies will have slashed their prices by about 30% with the lower priced runners, but even bigger cuts with the larger priced selections.
I'm fairly sure that the bookmakers have software which polls Hugh's tipping page waiting for the tip update and then auto update their own prices, and those that don't will notice an avalanche of bets for his selections which will trigger it own reaction.
So yes it is very difficult to get Hugh's prices, but any tipster who is successful at the prices they specify will have the same problem.
If Caan repeated his experiment with the oddschecker price history screen (which has time stamped price changes at the minute level) then we would have an independent verification of when price changes occurred and we would be able to know if the prices Hugh specifies where available with the specified bookies.
If they were not available on a regular basis I’m sure someone would have already pointed this out with the oddschecker screens to back them up.
I completely agree with everything you just said. In my experience, the majority of tipsters operate this way, with inflated returns none of us could ever achieve. I'm sure many of us have been lured in this way, only to realize we are losing more money than we're actually winning !
Ye. I'm astounded by the amount of people that have appeared from nowhere on social channels to then tell me I am wrong... of the back of seeing the facts. Most of them say things like 'but he gets good winners'. It's like FML head in hands moment.
Any of us could be a profitable tipster if we advised odds far higher than those available. Well done Caan.
Spot on. His tips often do go on a late drift but for the effort you need to put in and the inability to get the price on 85% of his tips, the time is better spent doing your own research and learning how to pick them yourself.
As ever, great video Caan! It's the unabashed, shameless, barefaced lying of these crooks that's so distasteful. Stealing out in the open, whilst pretending to help punters. Outrageous.
Been happening years too.
Great video. So good to see the situation clearly explained! But, despite this clear and honest explanation there will be people who don't want to believe it and will insist on learning the hard (expensive) way...
A small portion will no doubt.
Tips are for punters...... most punters don't worry about the price, they just worry if the horse might win or not....... Tipsters have always taken advantage of this fact - Good video proof of this - Well done for your efforts!
Well said Caan, I think we exchanged comments on another video about this before. I checked 2 years of HT tips, cross referenced with in-running highs, and it was impossible to replicate his record even putting bets at advised price kept at the off to go in running because many were front runners and never drifted. You can check his tips on oddschecker and see the timeline of the horses price dropping. Tranchee 4.55 haydock on Friday was tipped at 13/2 at 09.08, by 09.10 WillHill had cut it to 9/2. By 09.13 nobody was offering higher than 6. That Nine Elms one was absolutely ridiculous though, pity the goons who think HT is a Messiah.
Yes, there was another today. Mr Buttons advised at 40/1 .... when advised it was 23.0 on the exchange, couldn't see the 40 anywhere.
tip from the top, when he does his tips check to make sure the horse is a donkey then lay it, return after couple of hours and collect your profits :) as traders we love tipsters and this is why
Well done Caan , accurate representation of what is really going on. I've found exactly the same thing happening with other tipsters. Good video.
Thought it needed to be shared. Note - didnt want it to be personal a such, there are lots of tipsters that do this sort of thing too.
Great video. Is there an option for Hugh to answer the ‘charges’? I believe that you are 100% correct in the information given and that it creates such a poor opinion to the bookies at these invisible prices. Pls keep up the good work in highlighting these discrepancies. My personal gripe is that all customers should be able to have any offers that are promoted and ( like in Australia) there should be a blanket minimum win option for every bookmaker. If these minimums can not be guaranteed then the viability of the licence should be reviewed as it must be a fair playing field all around
I'm all for the minimum bet guarantee too
Inside Traxs have emailed him about this (Hugh Taylor) Replied with complete nonsense.
@@CaanBerryProTrader I honestly think this is what we must push for. We are never going to get a situation where bookies will accept all bets for any returns. But to say ‘this is what they do in Australia, can we please have it here’ seems like a fair resolution for all concerned. £500 winnings must be offered to all punters irrespective of who is making the bet. Above and beyond that they can have their restrictions etc.
I remember that Nine Elms tip. The SP was 9/4 fav. The next day they said. Hugh tipped 25/1 winner Nine Elms yesterday
Struggle to get the prices...
😂😂
Fair play Caan. Telling it as it really is out there. With bookies it is the nature of the beast that they will shorten up horses tipped up by the highest profile tipsters and certainly Pricewise of the Racing Post. In the old days on Channel 4's the Morning Line on a Saturday morning, John McCririck used to boldly state that certain bookies will guarantee a certain price on a certain horse until say 10am. Nowadays that simply won't happen. The internet and Betfair changed everything. Brilliant for traders, terrible for gamblers (unless you can get the right price and stake available on Betfair)
Just lay all Derek Thompson's tips and order your Rolls Royce.
Or Matt Chapman - fav, fav, fav
Agree with all of the above , but just as a point to note some not all usually drift back out closer to the
off. But yes backing ht tips will get u restricted its worth reading ht rationale if u are a newbie. If loses then u can often get double the price next time if conditions suit.
So the crooks are outright lying! Have you called Hugh out on Twitter? Thanks for putting the work in to gather this info...
No didn't bother. Some time back I made a comment and a whole load of his followers seemed to troll me each day... no idea why. I guess because it challenged their beliefs (such is twatter).
Brilliant work Caan, eye opening stuff.
If I was Hugh with a large following I'd play the exchange for a green book. I'd back it first to win then give it to my followers then back to loose... But I can't imagine he would do that.
I wonder if Hugh gets the prices. His accounts must be marked , so what are the chances ? Clearly he can't even get a decent bet on BF as not enough liquidity the night before. Great vid exposing what's really happening out there.
If he does, he will be banned with every bookmaker no doubt.
I knew tipsters did this with prices, but not by this margin! Great video Caan, very eye opening, and something all punters should know!
Double the price in some cases.
I challenged taylor about this 2 years ago got no reply he use to put his tips up at 11am after me and dozens of others pulled him he then changed it to 9AM
The lot of them are chancers if you cant read a race card stick to bingo by the way im 75 yrs old
Fair comment!
Ask him on twitter. He is very active there and replies most of the time.
The only way to measure a tipsters profitability is to use BFSP
Another great video. Surely if the tips are overbet they become a value lay? Have you looked at if you laid these selections at the price after the tips were given out?
Yes, but only if you can lay them at the bookies prices? If I understand what you mean there. You may catch a drift on them on the exchanges ;)
@@CaanBerryProTrader You're correct , it's not that simple. If you get HT price at 10.00 long term that makes profits as we know. Let's assume it gets backed to 5.00. Because he's a long term winner the horse by difinition has a good chance of winning so laying is a bad idea , also the BF starting price has been proven to be VERY accurate so you can't make money laying at BFSP. As Caan says there's a chance of catching a drift but that's about only way i can see a realistic profit.
Love this. I followed a tipster for 4 months and had their advised Vs BSP for every selection. Their EV was shocking for that period. Certain all tipsters are the same and the affiliated tipsters are jst a great money making model for bookmakers
Totally agree with you.
Never have I listened to a tipster, most of them select favourites. Especially If you bet odds on - you will lose long term.
They're making money from the bookies, says it all.
Trust the tipsters who give 1 20/1 selection per week and one those win once a month.
Hugh Taylor's tips are not often the favourite at the time he tips them
Great video again. What was the max in-play price on Betfair for these selections I have not checked.
Not sure, timeform will have them though (if they won)
Thanks for the video Caan, love to see these! Bottom line; did you make money on these at all? Any winners?
No hope! Winners aren't important, price is.
Great video love to this kind of video calling out the online horse and football tipsters on Facebook and Twitter
Thankfully, I don't lose any sleep when in comes to Hugh Taylor tips. It's all about probabilities right? :)
Yup!
Hugh does advise that his tips should only be followed if you can get 80% of the highest advised tipping price. It would be interesting to see what his P/L would be over the years adjusted for that.
What use is that? 80%? Doesnt show a true picture does it... especially if the other 20% are the ones that come good at value prices. Crazy
Yep; nothing new here. Was fully aware of that. Not suggesting anything, but if anyone was to know what Hugh was going to tip (like, for instance, Hugh himself), you could put a big bet on before the tip went live, knowing that the price would then drop significantly due to a load of punters piling on, and then trade it out for a really good guaranteed profit. Would be an excellent earner. Not implying anyone would do it, of course.
Lots of others have done the same. I think anyone in their right mind would. Trouble is, you couldnt get bigger prices on the exchange in some cases... and in others, the bookies would have banned you.
Spot on here mate, in fact the only way I’ve found in order to get the same prices they advertise is you have to use your boosts to up the odds. Which completely defeats the purpose of using the boost. Also exactly correct in if you back tipsters horses the bookies don’t want your business. I’ve had WH, mansion, and bet365 refuse me having an account now for backing Andy Holden horses.
Attheraces dreaming putting up them prices. You can get the prices if you fancy the same horse as Hugh and back them before he does.
I agree.
EXCELLENT WORK as per usual on this vid Caan. Been thinking the same for years they are just preying on the gullible. those prices were never available to the public. I'm sure Hugh probably lays off his liability of as well as the price shortens. smiling to himself thinking he's the god of tipping.
I really did try to get them too. One or two may have changed shortly before I got there... but there were certainly a lot where I was looking at it thinking it was never this price.
great video noticed this with tipsters for years, I can be profitable picking any horses if i can make up the price
Hi Caan, when Hugh Taylor releases his tips at around 9am the prices differ like you say but how many of these prices actually drop a lot lower before the off eg you mentioned nine elms at 25/1 but on the exchanges at 14's do you know how many of his tips lower before the off being a high profile tipster i would say a lot of punters follow his tips just thinking that if they do lower a bit then wouldn't that be a good trading opportunity. hmmmm
Some of them do, some drift. But still the quoted nearly alwasy beats BSP by wide margin.
Spot on Caan needs exposing more with all these like Tom Segal
Sure, didnt want it to be personal though. No point going through them one by one... there are several at it. I think from the comments its quite clear that a lot have people realise whats going on. I just feel sorry for those who don't. ATR has 6.6 million views a month online appartently. That's a lot of cannon fodder!
@@CaanBerryProTrader The Bookmakers all subscribe to any decent tipster service and will cut the price as they hear the same message, The punter who pays the tipster has no chance of making profit
The odds he calculate his winnings are unrealistic...you can never really get the same odds. His winnings should be based on starting prices.
Well explained caan, most tipsters working for these sites or publications are making money out of punters win or lose, nothing wrong with that but it is good to know the truth. The racing post is totally funded by bookmakers but I find it a useful tool in making my OWN selections. Thanks for the upload👍
Yes, its a modern business problem they have as things have changed.
And on top of that, is it possible that those tipsters are profiting from the movement their own tips generate? Let's say Hugh was able to back at 22-25/1 the night before, he puts the tip as 25/1 but it is really 15/1 an on top of that all the sheep get on it and move it to 17/2 an he gets out on the exchanges for a huge trade just profiting on mass psychology.
This is a good point, insider trading, if he knows he has followers he can back it on exchange, release the tip, people pile on and he lays it off ..... what's worse is that it being associated with various bookies and a racing information supplier this builds in non-existent credibility, IMHO
I have been checking that before, as well as tipsters from TipsterEmpire. Hardly ever could get advised odds. Backing on BSP was never profitable. Just thinking would that make any sense Lay all them tips at BSP ?
Great content Caan 💪
Appreciate it!
Great video mate, but as you probably sussed out, this type of price issue problem is really nothing new, long before social media was utilised as main platform, trade price tips highlighted by Tom Segal Racing Post paper column were also unavailable to the general shop betting, every morning!
Caan I have never heard one word of useful advice from you. What do you think about Stephen Harris ?
Why don’t you try and pick some horses, preferably before the off .
Don't know him personally. Why would I pick some horses? It's all price dependant, would only be a short period of time to the start if I were to pick any, and even then, there's far more profitable way to operate.
The real question is how many of the tips won?
But that's the point. It's not! It's all about price. If half of them won at an average price of less than evens you would be losing still.
Interestingly hugh posted two tips when the exchanges were down and you could get the advised price for at least 2 mins. Any thoughts on this?
Sounds like the bookies didnt have their guide-dog... that they spend time hating on.
Brought the receipts on this one. Good video once again.
As I've always suspected. Never been able to get his prices.
Be quick and look at different bookmakers. More than possible to get on at the top price - although not all of them.
Feel like I have to defend Hugh Taylor here he puts up his selections and always explains the reasoning behind it. He has said for years that people probably can't get on at the same price because the bookies cut the odds instantly same as pricewise etc. I have bet the night before and love it being a Hugh tip the next morning for obvious reasons ! You can't judge on SP because of the effect these people have on the market ... profit is made on the price you bet at. As for the social media tipsters who say let's make £1k from £10 then why aren't they doing it ? lol Value is the thing ...
Hey Danny, that's nice, but did you not see the video? The prices that are quoted are often not available... and if they were, you'd be called a dirty arber or something. Several say but some prices are available, and they may be, but that still means the overall record of results is not accurate or reflective.
I have noticed that once his tips are announced the price often drops quite considerably as people pile on. What sometimes also happens is that this overreaction often sparks a round of laying that can on occasions drive the price back up and beyond the original price at the time the tip was released. In other words, while it's absolutely true what Caan has said here, it's also true that there is potential for the price to increase to a point beyond where it was in the morning and therefore be of better value, once the bandwagon has run out of steam and the price reverses. Whether or not that means the price ever reaches the odds quoted in the tip, I just don't know.
I have 4 years of records of Hugh bets. I managed to get on average 60% of the value he has advised. Which is still a very good ROI. Sure you have to be quick to get the price but efficiency pays off. You need multiple screens ideally.
What use is getting 60%? Gives a totally false result. Having sat and looked at the updates too, the prices just aren’t there you can’t get em (maybe a couple) but even then you get banned for beating the line. I guess you don’t have any betting accounts after 4 years then? Be lucky to make an account last 4 days if ya betting value.
Pretty obvious to the viewers who understand betting...(and them Affiliates) but unfortunately for anyone who is disagreeing with you i think they must be quite naive.. Good Vid mate
Sure, had to be done after last weeks comments.
Keep exposing these criminals 🤜🤛
Keep up the good work, excellent videos.
Only 1 tipper ive ever made money off and whos each way tipped prices are actually avaiable at time of posts..some guy called scabba on twitter...ive tried to follow this Hugh Taylor guy and like u say the prices are hardly ever true,,,good job man
All about the price, Paul.
@@CaanBerryProTrader Very true mate- Check out this Scabba guy on Twitter- seems genuine/prices are available hes up over 25% in about 200 each way naps! Everytime ive followed his tips the prices have been there, Cheers Caan
@@pauljones-oe3ux - because he is relatively unknown. Not really Hugh Taylor's fault, if bookies reduce the prices on his selections as soon as he has put a bet on, or posted his selections. Historic results should be provided at SP or BSP though, (as it should for all other tipsters).
Let’s face it Oddschecker prices/bookies are down to 2 or 3 traders.. the rest are sister companies or use the same technology/website.. the game is getting more rigged by the day.. punters are & will leave. It sadly is putting people off the sport of horse racing which I have loved since I was a kid.
Great point at the end there, it really makes no sense whatsoever that bookmakers would promote genuinely profitable tipsters through ATR.
I think horse racing is quite a niche sport so tipsters have quite a powerful role in the community, especially for newcomers. When I used to bet on horses, it was pretty much always on tipster's selections.
It makes no sense whatsoever! Yes I did it too a long long time back!
They would use tipsters like this the same way they use certain boosts which may not be profitable long term as can be negative ev. But it’s highly likely that the average punter isn’t exclusively going to stick to hugh’s tips and will lose over the long run. Another form of advertising really to get people to bet with them.
....good work. Its absolutety shocking. And what is the only thing stopping this from becoming a widely reported scandal??--- advertising revenue.
Hugh Taylor tips a load of no hopers
Aaaaannnndddd in the Red Corner Caaaaann "The Bluuuueeee" Berry and in the opposite corner Hugh "Saville Row" Taylor
lol, wasn't anything personal, just one the most popular ones out there! Others do it too.
Well said mate
Well said 👍🏻
Just like Oddsmonkey....trying to get the price with any bookie for extra places....well I obviously gave up on that! I’m sticking to laying to back drifters to make my tiny amount of dosh per day which I am over the moon with lol.
I did ask in a message to HT a couple of years ago should he not also put up if you back them at SP what the profit would be no reply
Of course.
You make brilliant videos caan keep up the great work!
Thank you, which ones are your favourite recently? Keen to keep making the better ones!
@@CaanBerryProTrader i know trading is your thing but im not a trader so i enjoy the regular ones about gambling and bookmakers in general
The question is where does he get the magical prices from ? Why put fake prices when they are not even available.
I could get his prices 3 or 4 years ago using a website monitor (manually refreshing the page you are always going to be further behind) and could often get the highest price, Hell I could sometimes get £20 or so on Betfair and then lay off when people got on a min or so later. I'm gubbed on most bookies though now so stopped a few years ago as there is next to no money early on for the horses especially for the bigger priced ones. Something changed a few years ago tho in that even with a website monitor that refreshes the page every sec the price was always gone so either the people putting it up on the site are letting someone know before it's released or someone there is in with the bookies and allow them to cut prices before released.
You've got very little chance getting the info early enough just clicking refresh on the screen yourself that's like trying to trade with a 2 sec delay on betfair website while others are using Geekstoy/BetAngel etc.
Even sat there hitting hard refresh on the keyboard every 2 seconds? I looked at this mornings one, the exchange historical traded shows the closest price to the suggested tip was 3 points smaller.
@@CaanBerryProTrader
I used to have to call a mate which horse and race it was years ago to get on because he was just refreshing the page and I was using a website monitor, like I said tho even with a monitor I was unable to get the price they state now and it seemed to change a few years ago.
I'd rather just sit there waiting by my screen and wait for a noise to tell me of the change instead of having to spam the refresh button all the time, In theory it could be setup to even place the bet for you so you don't have to but you would have to set it up to have all the races and horses listed in the code so not sure it would be worth it with the time frame.
Love the videos and book , keep up the good work.
You couldn't scrape or place the bet automated. Bookies spend a lot of money to stop people doing that, they also delay their pricing logged out for a few minutes... pretty confident there's bob hope and no hope of getting the price. Like I said in the video, I suspect some of those prices were never even avail. Just thought it was worth sharing following up comments from a previous vid.
@@CaanBerryProTrader
Ok wasn't sure on the placing bet thing as I know you can do it to buy stuff from other sites etc when it comes back in stock so you can automate stuff but I can see how a bookie can block it.
100% tho around 3 or 4 years ago you could get the prices mentioned but it all changed a few years ago as I used to lay off on Betfair a min or so later when people had backed the price in on Betfair.
Like you said tho now there seems to be no chance of getting the price.
If you disregard form on horses and ignore the tipsters BS just value bet using a decent oddsmatcher and keep refreshing every 30 seconds or so you can get the bookie prices . You need to be double quick as they last about 30-60 seconds. It can be done and gives you and ROI of around 19%. You need three or four computers running in parralel and it takes some practice but can be done. I managed it for 14 months back in 2017-18 and of course you need to MA as the gubbing gets serious. You need to also have an appreciation of the maths to set the filters correctly on the oddsmatcher.
How meny of the tips went on to win?
Less than their real price
Trouble is even if you were smart enough to get on something fancied the night before, chances are the odds were only available for peanuts. As for bookies even if the prices (on bigger prices especially) were even available in the first place chances are again they were only putting up a couple of hundred pounds. All it takes is a handful of tenner bets to wipe out the early prices. Likely the horse will trade at a bigger price at the time of the race and probably lose anyway.
Thats the other thing, seeing bookies don't publish if a bet was even taken at that price. We've all tried to submit a bet one time or another and it's given you the loading cog followed by a significantly shorter prices... particularly if you were using William Hill it seems.
Easy 1 this. He prob wins at his odds . As soon as he puts his bets up the half in odds in 10 seconds . At the real odds massive losses a year .
getting the prices is/was a 2 man job, used to get loads on several years in the shops at no less than 1 point off his top quoted price, for a good while, but no chance these days.
Price is gone in most cases
@@CaanBerryProTrader probably now but when we did it, 5 seconds from me relaying bet to my mate is shop, to him getting cashier to check price. Only problem was if somebody was at the counter putting bet on.
Just another reason to trade rather than gamble!
Fair.
Why not lay his selections at BFSP?
Because that wouldn't be profitable either, especially when you consider commission.
@@CaanBerryProTrader Do they dob?
@@CaanBerryProTrader For reference, my view is that tipsters should be forced to be compared to BFSP. Yes they can have another column which they have 'P/L @ Advised prices', but BFSP is the only level playing field in my opinion (not that my opinion is worth anything!)
I was just thinking the same. If his tips suddenly cause the odds to artificially drop by a large margin isn't there potential to make money laying them (effectively what the bookmaker is doing)?
Good vid again Caan. Hugh needs to do some trading if he can get these prices. Nine Elms 25/1 to back and 15/1 to lay on the exchange. Kerching.
Others have suggested that happens. But I think in reality, if you took the 25/1 more often than not you would be gubbed pretty quickly.
@@CaanBerryProTrader No doubt.
Never heard of Hugh Taylor. Interesting.
Pretty popular like.
Seems to be the same with many other tipsters too. I’m currently trialling a couple and the odds they put out (often the night before) are never available even if instantly getting there before anyone else, it’s almost like they completely made the price up themselves. I’ve emailed both of them to tell them so and received no response. Funny that.
Has no one checked his results to sp?
Perhaps knowing what his selections are and therefore knowing what’s gonna fly in can be a way of finding better value elsewhere in the race. Hmm I like the look of Lameboy the forecast favourite in the 3.30, let’s see, ah Hugh’s tipped a different horse in this race sweet, ill wait for mine to drift before placing the bet. Maybe u can make a mint out of opposing Hugh
The thing I would say about this video is that a lot of people’s betting strategy would be trying to predict hughs predictions... after studying his tips for a while you would be able to guess his tips quite well. It would not be his fault or problem that the prices would have shortened by the time the tip is released the prices would definitely have been available at some point, even if it is the night before. He is a journalist and should not be a sort of financial advisor. He Clearly knows his stuff but you would be better off trying to work out his system for picking his bets rather than going in blindly backing the selections
Brilliant, going to send this video to a friend who swears by the woman Sky tipster! He probably will still think she is the bee's!
Which tipster is that? You should share the previous video with them too. It explains the model of tipsters more. Linked in the description.
Alex Hammond?? She is dreadful.
Is there any genuine website that does track tipsters properly
Don't have to win to get banned. If you get the price and it gets beaten 100 lengths they'll still ban you.
How many of the tips won. Great vid btw
Not sure!
As you quote in the description , "As mentioned in the video, you may be able to get the price of some selections if you're super-fast."
Therefore this video is pretty redundant I mean Hugh's never argued his prices last long. Thats the price you pay for being an excellent tipster and consequently having a large following. Nothing to see here.
did i miss where he says how many of the 12 won?
And also it gives the impression that there is loads of money for the selection!!
Yep.
Hugh Taylor obviously knows his horses the problem is any tipster that goes public will ultimately fail his target audience.
Profit is fragile and the most fearsome predator is publicity.
GREAT SUBJECT CAAN.....I HAVE CHECKED HUGH TAYLORS BIG PRICED TIPS ON MANY OCCASIONS......AND HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE.....THE PRICES ARE FICTICIOUS....AND WORKING HAND IN HAND WITH BOOKMAKERS.....IN MY OPINION...INFLATING THE PRICES TOO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE HES 100S OF POINTS UP....WHICH IS ...B.S.....
websites, tipsters, maybe even politicians in the bookies pockets when will it end? and how far will it go?
The only valid comment he made was at the end regarding bookies closing winning accounts. As for Hugh Taylor I don't know what else he can do? It's he who puts in the hard work to find those overpriced in his view, so those prices HAVE to count when advised. Of course you can't get on at those prices, but Hugh's a marked man and a very good judge with a following
If we all published unatainable prices we'd all have massive followings and be a great judge/profitable on paper.
Hughs tips are very useful and profitable for me but I have no question he gives the bookies an insight before he posts them live.
Thus taking away the value...
@@CaanBerryProTrader but this hasn't been proven or come to light yet. It's more than possible to get on his tips at the top price. Maybe not all of his tips but certainly the majority. Myself and a few friends manage it day to day so I find your video a bit of an exaggeration and sounds more like a gripe than anything else.
"It's more than possible to get on his tips at the top price" pretty sure the video proves not. Just look at yesterday and today. 40/1 Mr Buttons, not a hope in hell of getting that (20/1 avail) today was the same advised 25/1... 14/1 was available tops. I'd guess you're either affiliated or just one the mob the industry thrives on, deluded.
If you would like me to send you evidence of just a few bets at top price of be happy to do so?
From another quick view of your video alone notable ones are Tranchee, Twilight Calls & Nine Elms.
Right, I agree and disagree. His prices generally are available with the bookies when they go on-site, but traders are all over it. They're tasked with being on ATR and hitting refresh just like any of his followers are at that time each day, and it's quicker for them to enter their tool to shorten the prices than it is for the punter to navigate to the race, add it to a slip and stake it. The advantage goes to the trader. That's fine, you can't blame Hugh for this. He's doing his job and because he's that good at his job, is why we've gotten to a situation like this. Nobody is going to achieve his long-term profit, but that doesn't make him of no use, he shakes up the market to where anyone with a bit of understanding can take him on and get value elsewhere - during the best of times he'll hit a 20% strike rate, probably averages out to between 10-15%, so there are 80-90% of races you can take him on and win.
The only area I do have a problem with Hugh's column is that they record his stats at the best available price, which you correctly pointed out. If bet365 is 33/1, and everyone else is 20/1, the stats for a 33/1 are going on his record. I was in the tipping game for 8 years and I know (everyone should know) that is the wrong thing to do. Tipster stats SHOULD ALWAYS be recorded to the GENERALLY AVAILABLE price - i.e a price available at 4 or more top bookmakers at the time of posting.
So whilst I know he's very good, he's not quite as good as his long-term ROI indicates for that very reason, but the above is actually out of his hands. ATR choose to do it this way for the reason you mentioned, which is the affiliate links.
End of the day, Hugh is very informative to beginner punters, use his work as learning material if nothing else and apply it to your own system over time. If you're already knowledgable, take him on, get extra value elsewhere as a result of his presence in the market.
The man is a talented judge, but he's been priced out of the game at the smaller meetings he tends to cover. When he tips at the bigger festivals you should have no trouble following him - if you're inclined that way.
The big mistake you made in this video was using betfair so prominently in your analysis. Betfair liquidity isn't worth a shit at that time of day, traders aren't following it until nearer race time. What you could have and should have done was use oddscheckers feature to search bookmakers previous prices available. You would have then been able to see exactly what time his odds were available to.
I think you need to realise that oddschecker isn't a gauge and neither is bookie prices. You can see them all day long, doesn't mean they'll take a bet at them! like a mirage, you can see but not touch.
I have been fascinated by the HT phenomenon for years and even from day one it cannot be described as profitable ..His highest R O I since inception in 2009 is 1.55 %-which means 15.5 profit on every 1000 invested, but then that is only at the ( advertised ) prices of course. In the last two years this has dipped to 1.13% & 1.16 % which makes it surely hardly worth the effort from that standpoint. Also when taken from the ubiquitous (net points profit ) which all tipsters like to use, again there has been a serious decline-going from 500 pts net in 2009 to 512 pts for the last 3 years combined !
As you say Caan clearly knows his stuff, but there is very likely no net profit to be had for punters who are only obtaining the best ( real world ) prices on offer for his selections.
You mis understand the ROI figure. The ROI of 1.55, actually means that if you put a 1,000 pound on you would have a profit of 550 pounds (plus your 1,000 pounds). To check you need to go through each monthly spreadsheet for 2018 (the year in question 2018 results ROI 1.55 +345pts), and total up the stake and profit. June for instance was stake = £75, profit = £119.9. Return On Investment is measured as (total returns/total invested). The ROI for June would have been (119.9+75)/75 = 2.59. Plenty of less profitable months bring the yearly ROI to 1.55. Since the total profit for the year was £345, the total stake would have been near £625.
Hi Caan - Sorry but I have to defend Hugh Taylor. Been using his tips from start in 2009 and it's a nice 2nd income.
You have to be Super organised but it is possible. The rewards are so good that it's worth the effort.
First off, I have a dedicated bookie for HT bets (not one of the bigger ones). My screen for that bookie is ready with all the day's races ready at one click.
Sometimes you literally get 3 seconds - unlikely to get more than 10 seconds
80%+ (i.e 8-1 for advised 10-1) is ok but I usually get better than this and around half the time I get full price. >75% and I ignore that selection.
You WILL get barred or stakes reduced, so you join a new bookie ( I've used numerous!!)
After a bad run you can often bet at a bigger than advised price on Betfair at the off.
Pete Couchman
Thanks for the comment, how'd you get the prices advised when they've changed before the tip is published? Genuinely curious on that one. It throws the results well off.
@@CaanBerryProTrader Not sure what you mean - if prices were higher prior to publishing then I guess it's just tough luck - maybe the staff at ATR get first shout!
I don't see how how results could be affected though as he records advised prices at time of publishing.
Thats my point... there's no evidence they are that price at the time of publish and theres none that the bookie took a bet at the price. If you watch the video you will see in many instances they are not available at said price... which affect the results and puts them in the negative if you took the price that was certainly available. Plus most are arb prices so your account would be restricted super fast.
@@CaanBerryProTrader I notice that you show to 365 and LADS - It's been many years since I was allowed to use these and most other bookies that people have heard of. I use lesser known bookies and agreed, some are quick to close you down ..... but not all! Somewhat surprisingly you can on occasions even beat HT's price. Chuck in the odd £2 on a 3-3 draw for a Premiership match to make you look more random.
I never even look at Betfair - not a chance there.
When you say 6 seconds later etc .... this can be too slow - you really do need to be very quick - I probably wasn't for the first few months but got it right eventually. (I have even been known to bet £22 instead of £20 because it's fractionally quicker!
Caan....he's an absolute chancer. I used to follow him 3 or 4 years ago and could never get an advertised price straight after he put it up...imagine him at football tipping he'd have man city to win the league at 2/1 first thing tomorrow morning and say "it was available"🙈 😂😂
Buy the way if you're looking to hire a minder I'm available at £500 a day 😂😂
lol, hope you're well, Dave.
@@CaanBerryProTrader I'm fine mate..keep the content coming..I think more and more people are realising you know what you're talking about, especially after the stick you took about Football Index...I hope you've had a lot of apologetic messages from some of them since then 👍
When will people get that it is all a scam! Jeez! As the old saying goes "A Fool And His Money Are Soon Parted'''.
Strong word, but in this case, pretty fair I think.
The point about paying for tips it usually involves punters who stake relatively small stakes, £20 40 60 if said tip is advised at 10s & wins at 5s punter won't complain. But this tipster prices are deceitful, the tipster should be more honest & advise at tissue prices, even if its a free service just tell the truth
I believe you know enough about the betting markets to also know you are being deliberately disingenuous here. First of all, of course you can't make money following a 'celebrity' tipster who puts their tips out into the public domain. Duh! By virtue of the fact that Hugh IS a fantastic tipster, with a proven track record of selecting 'value' bets, the bookmakers have to immediately react and cut Hugh's tips blind to remove the value edge THEY acknowledge he finds on a regular basis! That's a huge tribute to Hugh! Secondly, simply by checking Oddschecker on a daily basis, I could confirm that the prices Hugh advertises on his column where available right up until the minute(s) before Hugh posts his column. That's an indisputable fact. Therefore, again, what you are actually criticising Hugh for is being good! If Hugh wasn't good, the bookmakers wouldn't cut their prices based on his tips and punters would therefore be able to get the prices quoted as a result. Bottom line, no of course you can't make money following Hugh Taylor or Andy Holding but that's BECAUSE they are proven to be fantastic judges, not because of some kind of underhand false advertisement of prices, as you imply. Check it out today. Hugh has one tip - GHAITH in the 14:00. Hugh advertised a price of 9/2, when in fact 5/1 was available with 888Sport up until 09:22.