The ssm2050 "having issues when heating up", i think is actually a bigger part of the sound of those early rev1/2's than we ever talk about. A lot of the other problems you mentioned, memory recall issues and tuning/auto-tune problems, were down to really poor solder joints and board connections, amplified by ancient 8x 6508 RAM chips that are failure prone. The later rev3's moved to larger, more condensed RAM and EPROM chips, the latter of which also eliminated some voltage rails from the PSU, further reducing the heat problems. These EPROM & PSU changes are often "back-ported" to the rev1/2, like in photo of that riku + cassette modded's rev1 CPU board you showed, this had the mod done with newer EPROMs installed, and you'll often see people call them a "1.1" or "2.1" afterwards, but this is unofficial nomenclature. In recent years - flash ram mods have been able to eliminate the memory issues (& their associated leaky batteries) entirely, from ALL revisions. You mention tuning issues "fixed in rev2", but, there's also a note in the service manual that they tried to fix these envelope problems I mention, mid-way through the rev2's run, by using matched sets. Those ssm2050 envelopes turn the synth into what amounts to an analog calliope. When going through and updating my rev2 with all the latest service notes - that was the one update that there was really no "fix" for, all you could do was replace every envelope chip with one from the newer matched sets, but as far as I'm aware, they weren't suggesting anyone to do that, especially given the shortages of SSM's they were already having. I'm not sure they ever truly fixed the issue in those early revs, my guess is they tried to pick chips that sway from temperature in a more matched/even ways, to the best they could.
Thanks for that incredible detail on the issues of the rev 1 - rev 2 Prophets. Great to know so much more detail on the issues they were having with them.
Amazing work as always Johnny! Love the amount of research and historic insights you put into your work. Dave's legacy will never be forgotten, and he will be forever missed.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Thanks! Yes, would be great to talk shop (and do a studio tour) ;) Hopefully in the next few months once this weather lightens up!
Dave is the legend. Really unique and modern instruments. Implementation of MIDI. Coop with iconic guys such as Roger Linn. My first analogue synth was DSI Mopho. Still miss it ❤
Thank you, for the Sequential Circuit story and especially on the Prophet-5, this is a very nice document, well done! I still love the sound and character of the Prophet since the beginning.
Thank you Johnny for the very detailed historical information and wonderfully narrated documentary! I now have a much better appreciation for the foundational pioneering work, vision and creative imagineering of this seminal instrument. I loved all of the photos of the circuit boards in various iterations/revisions; true creative genius at work. Now when powering up my 2022 Prophet 10 (Prophet 5-REV 4) I will take a moment to look at it with amazement and deep respect for Dave Smith and his team with thankfulness for developing such a unique and timeless creative musical instrument.
I loved the Prophet 10 when it was a dual keyboard machine. My friend Chris from San Jose managed to buy one after a settlement from a motorcycle accident. I played it a few times and made some recordings on my boom box. It sounded stellar. To be able to create programs with that dual setup was awesome. I was disappointed by the new Prophet 10 which really isn’t anything like that design.
@3.38 you include the Oberheim 4-voice among units having a divide down circuitry for polyphony. In fact, the keyboard used was based on the invention from the same E-mu guys :-)
Did Oberheim license the EMU scanning model? I know, having worked on a few, and struggling to understand the operating principle in the absence of a uP system, that they used a TTL logic loop instead of the P5 based uP system.
Loved this. You have to hand it to Dave for changing the whole industry and influencing the music of that whole 78-84 era... In 1986 I saw a Prophet 5 in my local music shop and I fell in love... the whole look and feel and even the name created an aura for me and the sound just sounded much richer than my Juno 60 and JX8P... Finally got to own one when the REV4 was released.
John Bowen says he is positively surprised you found a clip of him playing in the Nielsen Pearson band (at around 7:11). He found it funny cause he was really focused on success with the band more than thinking about what affect working on the Prophet 5 and doing all the factory sounds for this synth would have on his future. :)
Francis Monkman bought and played a Rev 1 whilst in the band Sky. He managed to sync it to a harpsichord via a bespoke interface system (that predated MIDI) fitted under the harpsichord's keys, so that the harpsichord could trigger the corresponding notes on the synthesizer. It can be heard on the album Sky2 and most notably on the hit single Toccata.
10:29 The envelope times on my old SSM Rev 2.0 Prophet-5 were so variable that ifcyou set attack time to 10 and decay time to 0 with no sustain and played a 5 note chord, the first note would last avout 5 seconds and the last about 30 seconds!🤣😂😅 You could use this to make interesting sounds though.
Wonderful Johnny! I love my Rev 2! I have to disagree with your friend per the sound vs. rev 3 (at least my P10 rev 3 cannot compare), but to each their own... Such is the beauty of synthesis!
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams I thought I had seen that Rev1 you had. The one with the walnut if it was a Rev1. The koa wood one is mean and red. Someone here in the UK has TWO Rev1s now.
Since the new Prophet 5 rev 4 uses both filter chip sets (the CEM 3320 and the SSI 2140, I wonder if they'll incorporate in a firmware update the 12db filter and the Q compensation capabilities of the SSI 2140. I have the Rev-1 filter mod (the SSI 2140 filter chips) on my Rev 3.3 Prophet 5, and while I can't save the 12db setting, nor the Q compensation per patch, the mod opens up a lot of sonic possibilities to my old friend. Especially not losing bass frequencies/volume at higher resonance is so nice. The synth can (almost) pull of the classic Tom Sawyer bass rez now!
Around 1988 I left the military and wanted to get back into keyboards, but all the great brands that I fondly lusted after were basically gone; ARP, MOOG, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hohner. What took their place? Looking at Peter Gabriel's Passion album liner notes I saw "Prophet-5", and assumed all those cool Middle Eastern sounds emanated from that machine, so I had to have one. By that time the P5 was yesterday's news, and people were abandoning them in favor of the likes of the Roland D-50 and Korg M-1. I found a rev 3 basket case, got it up and running, then another, and so on, including a super clean P10 with factory midi and tape drive (Braemar?), for $600, 'cause it suffered a missing voice (easy fix - Curtis VCO). I've probably owned 10 Prophet-5/10s, and still have one of each. I can't say that about the CS-80, Gleeman Pentaphonic, various 4-voices, 2600s, OSCars, Jupiter-8, etc.- all wonderful machines, but not 'desert island' keepers (well, should have kept the CS-80, if only to realize a decent return as a bought it for $1k and sold it for $2K a couple years later.....). The Prophets are reasonable to work on (can't say that about the Memorymoog...), fairly reliable, iconic and beautiful to behold. Did I mention, sound great? Great video!
Thanks for sharing a bit of your Prophet story. I know - they really do have a 'Soul' to them - I recently got a P5-rev4 and I love it. I've had a chance to play a few Rev3's and Rev2's and they all have a vibe that just can't be matched.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Wow. A fast reply! It's 5:20am here. I'm in bed watching this on my phone!🙄😍😎 Sadly my Rev2.0 P5 broke, so I now have a P6 and an OB6, which are still great.
Nice video. I could never work out why Dave decided to use and license the keyboard scanning/voice assigning code from Emu. Given that the P5 didn't have velocity, the code to do that is trivial, especially compared to the much harder coding problems on the rest of the system. Maybe he just liked it once he had tried the code
Because E-MU had patented the algorythm. Also, given that I was around in the 1980, your comment about "coding" gives me pause a bit, because nowdays we have general CPUs and RAM and everything is software, but back most things that we would "code" today would actually be hard-coded with electronics and logic chips
@@farquoiIf you wanted to use Emu's exact scanning algorithm, sure. But there were plenty of key scanning techniques already out there which were different, and the method of scanning a generic key matrix is so widely used. Voice assigning wasn't novel at that time, either. There is nothing in hardware on the P5 that supports the key scanning beyond general address decoding, tristate buffers and so on.
In the video (GREAT VIDEO btw!!) someone is adjusting their cutoff knob and the led display is changing value. Is it supposed to do that??? My rev 3.3 led display only shows the program and bank. 🙈🙈🙈
Very good question Robert. No it is because that unit (a rev 2) as an upgrade. I'll try and get you some details as to this for you. That was me adjusting.
Thanks! I found that very intriguing! I ordered a battery eliminator ram upgrade for mine that should be here next week which removes the battery and stores the patches in non volatile ram. Looking forward to that! Only upgrade I know for a 3.3!
Hi Robert - it's this firmware upgrade for the Rev 2 that modified the display when changing a pot value. www.analog.fi/prophet-5-rev2-firmware-update/
Arguably, the best sounding analog polysynth
Very well done Johnny! Dave Smith will always be known as one of the true innovators/pioneers, of electronic music.
Thanks Chris - have a great holidays!
Your best film yet
Thanks Tony
Great work, Johnny. These mini docs can be boring and contrived, but this is absolutely excellent. Really makes me proud to be a Rev 3.2 owner myself.
Thanks Tyler - awesome that you own a Rev. 2 - they are incredible in so many ways.
The ssm2050 "having issues when heating up", i think is actually a bigger part of the sound of those early rev1/2's than we ever talk about. A lot of the other problems you mentioned, memory recall issues and tuning/auto-tune problems, were down to really poor solder joints and board connections, amplified by ancient 8x 6508 RAM chips that are failure prone. The later rev3's moved to larger, more condensed RAM and EPROM chips, the latter of which also eliminated some voltage rails from the PSU, further reducing the heat problems. These EPROM & PSU changes are often "back-ported" to the rev1/2, like in photo of that riku + cassette modded's rev1 CPU board you showed, this had the mod done with newer EPROMs installed, and you'll often see people call them a "1.1" or "2.1" afterwards, but this is unofficial nomenclature. In recent years - flash ram mods have been able to eliminate the memory issues (& their associated leaky batteries) entirely, from ALL revisions.
You mention tuning issues "fixed in rev2", but, there's also a note in the service manual that they tried to fix these envelope problems I mention, mid-way through the rev2's run, by using matched sets. Those ssm2050 envelopes turn the synth into what amounts to an analog calliope. When going through and updating my rev2 with all the latest service notes - that was the one update that there was really no "fix" for, all you could do was replace every envelope chip with one from the newer matched sets, but as far as I'm aware, they weren't suggesting anyone to do that, especially given the shortages of SSM's they were already having.
I'm not sure they ever truly fixed the issue in those early revs, my guess is they tried to pick chips that sway from temperature in a more matched/even ways, to the best they could.
Thanks for that incredible detail on the issues of the rev 1 - rev 2 Prophets. Great to know so much more detail on the issues they were having with them.
What a fantastic video, thank you so much! My prophet V arrives tomorrow, I'm so excited!
Amazing work as always Johnny! Love the amount of research and historic insights you put into your work. Dave's legacy will never be forgotten, and he will be forever missed.
Thanks Synth4Ever. I love your tributes to Dave as well and your recent videos from the Sequential headquarters. Let's talk synths soon!
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Thanks! Yes, would be great to talk shop (and do a studio tour) ;) Hopefully in the next few months once this weather lightens up!
@@synth4ever For sure - lets make it happen!
I for one really appreciate all the hard work that went into making this doc!
Thanks Michael
Your channel is a goldmine! Thank-you!
Dave is the legend. Really unique and modern instruments. Implementation of MIDI. Coop with iconic guys such as Roger Linn.
My first analogue synth was DSI Mopho. Still miss it ❤
absolutely brilliant!...I was glued to the screen.
Thanks tedmus - all the best
RIP Dave Smith, one year ago today, at Detroit's Movement Festival. Genius, innovator, revolutionary.
Johnny, really fantastic work! Thank you!
Thank you Andrew!
What a great tribute to Dave and Sequential, thanks Johnny!
Thanks JP - much appreciated.
Thank you, for the Sequential Circuit story and especially on the Prophet-5, this is a very nice document, well done! I still love the sound and character of the Prophet since the beginning.
Thank you Johnny for the very detailed historical information and wonderfully narrated documentary! I now have a much better appreciation for the foundational pioneering work, vision and creative imagineering of this seminal instrument. I loved all of the photos of the circuit boards in various iterations/revisions; true creative genius at work. Now when powering up my 2022 Prophet 10 (Prophet 5-REV 4) I will take a moment to look at it with amazement and deep respect for Dave Smith and his team with thankfulness for developing such a unique and timeless creative musical instrument.
Thanks 64nightfly - very well said about Dave!
I loved the Prophet 10 when it was a dual keyboard machine. My friend Chris from San Jose managed to buy one after a settlement from a motorcycle accident. I played it a few times and made some recordings on my boom box. It sounded stellar. To be able to create programs with that dual setup was awesome. I was disappointed by the new Prophet 10 which really isn’t anything like that design.
Thanks for sharing - the Prophet 10 Dual Manual is incredible - I hope to be able to play one as well one day.
ヤマハのエレクトーンや
コルグのB Xオルガンの様な２段鍵盤。
19:16 What is that panel? The Prophet-5 desktop? Looks GORGEOUS.
Oh yes- that's the new Prophet-10 rev. 3 desktop version. Sounds incredible. I used it for most of the music in the video.
I love all the interesting detail you have in this video! A real history lesson about something that helped shaped the 80's music completely!
Thanks Jeff!
I ❤documentaries like this. I applaude you JMSD. Thank you... x10
Johnny these documentaries are great. Informative, interesting, entertaining - and a nice showcase for your music as well. Thanks for making them!
Thanks - I really enjoy the process - have a new one in the works right now. All the best!
Such a class video and channel. *The* synth history channel. Please keep ‘em coming 🖤
Very well done, lots of detailed information not mentioned in similar videos. Thank you
@3.38 you include the Oberheim 4-voice among units having a divide down circuitry for polyphony. In fact, the keyboard used was based on the invention from the same E-mu guys :-)
Thanks for the clarification - I'll edit that out.
just editing out now - thanks for that catch
Did Oberheim license the EMU scanning model? I know, having worked on a few, and struggling to understand the operating principle in the absence of a uP system, that they used a TTL logic loop instead of the P5 based uP system.
What a great tribute to this amazing genius! Thank you Johnny.
This is a beautiful documentary, thank you!
Thanks Erik
OOH! Always excited to see a new "Story" video drop. Love my P5.
Another great video Johnny! Per usual, I enjoyed the depth and detail in both the history and technical aspects...
Thanks Jeremy
This is fantastic!! Hope to see more of the tech business challenges and synth industry in general
Loved this. You have to hand it to Dave for changing the whole industry and influencing the music of that whole 78-84 era... In 1986 I saw a Prophet 5 in my local music shop and I fell in love... the whole look and feel and even the name created an aura for me and the sound just sounded much richer than my Juno 60 and JX8P... Finally got to own one when the REV4 was released.
I know - I bought a rev 4 just after I made this video. I absolutely love it.
John Bowen says he is positively surprised you found a clip of him playing in the Nielsen Pearson band (at around 7:11). He found it funny cause he was really focused on success with the band more than thinking about what affect working on the Prophet 5 and doing all the factory sounds for this synth would have on his future. :)
Hi Don - that is awesome. I'm sure he was! I know I couldn't believe I found that clip - it's amazing.
nicely done. liking the background sounds too
Glad you enjoyed it - most of the music was made with a Prophet 10 Rev. 4
Very informative, thanks for posting.
This was really well put together. Dave Smith would be proud 👏
Thanks Poetic
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Yes. Superb video.
Celebration of 45 years of sequential circuit prophet 5 r.i.p me Dave smith
12:53. I think the rev1/2 vs rev3 thing is a matter of taste and depends very much on what kind of sounds you make.
I got rev 4
Francis Monkman bought and played a Rev 1 whilst in the band Sky. He managed to sync it to a harpsichord via a bespoke interface system (that predated MIDI) fitted under the harpsichord's keys, so that the harpsichord could trigger the corresponding notes on the synthesizer. It can be heard on the album Sky2 and most notably on the hit single Toccata.
Thanks for that information - I will be sure to check that album out now.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams And there are several videos on youtube.
10:29 The envelope times on my old SSM Rev 2.0 Prophet-5 were so variable that ifcyou set attack time to 10 and decay time to 0 with no sustain and played a 5 note chord, the first note would last avout 5 seconds and the last about 30 seconds!🤣😂😅 You could use this to make interesting sounds though.
Wow very interesting Dave. I had a chance to play with a rev 2 for a bit while making this video but didn't try that.
Wonderful Johnny! I love my Rev 2! I have to disagree with your friend per the sound vs. rev 3 (at least my P10 rev 3 cannot compare), but to each their own... Such is the beauty of synthesis!
The Rev 2 is amazing - I was lucky enough to play a Rev 2 and look at a Rev 1 while making this video.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams I thought I had seen that Rev1 you had. The one with the walnut if it was a Rev1. The koa wood one is mean and red. Someone here in the UK has TWO Rev1s now.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams I had a Rev 2.0 Prophet-5 once. #0367.
A wonderful story wonderfully told!
Thanks Dale - much appreciated!
Seeing that clip with Leo Laporte was such a nostalgia hit. Was that an episode of The Screen Savers? Man, I miss TechTV.
Since the new Prophet 5 rev 4 uses both filter chip sets (the CEM 3320 and the SSI 2140, I wonder if they'll incorporate in a firmware update the 12db filter and the Q compensation capabilities of the SSI 2140. I have the Rev-1 filter mod (the SSI 2140 filter chips) on my Rev 3.3 Prophet 5, and while I can't save the 12db setting, nor the Q compensation per patch, the mod opens up a lot of sonic possibilities to my old friend. Especially not losing bass frequencies/volume at higher resonance is so nice. The synth can (almost) pull of the classic Tom Sawyer bass rez now!
Around 1988 I left the military and wanted to get back into keyboards, but all the great brands that I fondly lusted after were basically gone; ARP, MOOG, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Hohner. What took their place? Looking at Peter Gabriel's Passion album liner notes I saw "Prophet-5", and assumed all those cool Middle Eastern sounds emanated from that machine, so I had to have one. By that time the P5 was yesterday's news, and people were abandoning them in favor of the likes of the Roland D-50 and Korg M-1. I found a rev 3 basket case, got it up and running, then another, and so on, including a super clean P10 with factory midi and tape drive (Braemar?), for $600, 'cause it suffered a missing voice (easy fix - Curtis VCO). I've probably owned 10 Prophet-5/10s, and still have one of each. I can't say that about the CS-80, Gleeman Pentaphonic, various 4-voices, 2600s, OSCars, Jupiter-8, etc.- all wonderful machines, but not 'desert island' keepers (well, should have kept the CS-80, if only to realize a decent return as a bought it for $1k and sold it for $2K a couple years later.....). The Prophets are reasonable to work on (can't say that about the Memorymoog...), fairly reliable, iconic and beautiful to behold. Did I mention, sound great? Great video!
Thanks for sharing a bit of your Prophet story. I know - they really do have a 'Soul' to them - I recently got a P5-rev4 and I love it. I've had a chance to play a few Rev3's and Rev2's and they all have a vibe that just can't be matched.
great job! thanks a lot
Great video of this synthesiser legend 🎶
This is great, well done :)
Thank you! Cheers!
Didn't think I would cry for this one. ❤
another great video
can you do a video on the roland sp404?
Thank you.
Is that your original music from 9:25-10:45? Pretty nice stuff. I like the 808 and the chord memory vibe.
It is! Thanks Combfilter
Great to see another history episode of the wonderful world of synth. Please more of that ... 😉
Great doc!
That was awesome. Like your series. MPC next.
3:33 The Oberheim 4-voice used divide-down technology??? What are those 4 SEMs with 2 oscillators each for, then?
Thanks for the catch Rayy's - I've edited the video to catch that error - should be processed within a few hours
Awesome deep dive as usual my friend, keep them coming! Maybe akai can be a future vid? Mpc!!!
Thanks Based - yeah I love my Akai's - great idea.
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams im sure their synth division has some interesting history. Love my ax73
That was great!
0:01 As per your title and thumbnail, I think Dave Smith modified that dreadful 5 in that font and replaced it with a 5 with a flat top!
Oh yes - I was wondering about that!
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Wow. A fast reply! It's 5:20am here. I'm in bed watching this on my phone!🙄😍😎 Sadly my Rev2.0 P5 broke, so I now have a P6 and an OB6, which are still great.
R.I.P Dave Smith. -- He is a Prophet.
Oh, how I wish this kind of resurrection would happen with other classic synths..
I know right. I mean I love what Dave Smith is doing with this and the OB-X8.
Nice video. I could never work out why Dave decided to use and license the keyboard scanning/voice assigning code from Emu. Given that the P5 didn't have velocity, the code to do that is trivial, especially compared to the much harder coding problems on the rest of the system. Maybe he just liked it once he had tried the code
Because E-MU had patented the algorythm. Also, given that I was around in the 1980, your comment about "coding" gives me pause a bit, because nowdays we have general CPUs and RAM and everything is software, but back most things that we would "code" today would actually be hard-coded with electronics and logic chips
@@farquoiIf you wanted to use Emu's exact scanning algorithm, sure. But there were plenty of key scanning techniques already out there which were different, and the method of scanning a generic key matrix is so widely used. Voice assigning wasn't novel at that time, either. There is nothing in hardware on the P5 that supports the key scanning beyond general address decoding, tristate buffers and so on.
Loved this video.
Thanks Christopher!
I wish I could understand how the circuit plans get into the module
Loved that video. Subscribed
Awesome, thank you!
16:12 Ian Stanley isn't there. You've got two Tony Bankss instead, young and old, but maybe you didn't have a pic of Ian Stanley!😅
Great video.
good job😌
Thanks 😅
In the video (GREAT VIDEO btw!!) someone is adjusting their cutoff knob and the led display is changing value. Is it supposed to do that??? My rev 3.3 led display only shows the program and bank. 🙈🙈🙈
Very good question Robert. No it is because that unit (a rev 2) as an upgrade. I'll try and get you some details as to this for you. That was me adjusting.
Thanks! I found that very intriguing! I ordered a battery eliminator ram upgrade for mine that should be here next week which removes the battery and stores the patches in non volatile ram. Looking forward to that! Only upgrade I know for a 3.3!
Hi Robert - it's this firmware upgrade for the Rev 2 that modified the display when changing a pot value. www.analog.fi/prophet-5-rev2-firmware-update/
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams Wow! I REALLY wish that Sequential had done this on the newer synths. So useful.
lol the output cables on the 10 ?
極論すればシンセサイザーはプロフェット５とミニモーグ（現在ならモデルＤ）だけ所有すれば良い。
Prophet 5 は必須のシンセであり、もちろんミニモーグはどんなミックスにもフィットします。素晴らしいコンボ！
Thanks Jonas!
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams 😊
ive got a Sequential Prophet 5 that came from Rick Wakeman
That is so awesome - what history.
Although this is a very interesting video, there are just way too many ads. Thumbs down.
I know - sorry I don't control that Brian
@@johnnymorgansynthdreams that’s weird because I watch videos on TH-cam a lot and I’ve never seen this many advertisements on a video of this length.