Brexit Britain is crumbling - time to make hard choices | Andrew Marr | New Statesman
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- A weak UK economy following Brexit, a US haunted by Trump, Russia’s war and global warming all suggest a storm is coming, says Andrew Marr.
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There was no revision, they simply changed their accounting method to a more advantageous one, used by the US as well, and NO OTHER country out there.
Should the EU or other countries do the same, you will see the UK back down.
PS: Markets are not that fooled either, gilts have not come down hard.
Britain needs a new party that isn't neo liberal nor warmongering.
@barryjones1483 No he isn't. It's the same neo liberal war mongering agenda by $ir Kier Rodney $tarmer.
"Labour needs a radical Labour leader"!!
Of course he thinks that, he used to work for the BBC.
A fundamental reason for the decline in productivity in the UK over the last 3 or 4 decades is the change in attitude of employers to their workers. When I left university in the mid 70s, I spent siome years working in recruitment in a Personnel department. A frequent topic of discussion, training and published profession articles was worker motivation, how to make workers feel happy and fulfilled. Leading industrial psychologists such as Maslow and Hertz talked about a hierarchy of needs - the need to earn enough to pay your bills, but the need to also feel valued and consulted.But then in the 80s and 90s "Personnel" became "Human Resources" - workers were no longer "people" and motivation was no longer talked about, and productivity declined.
Completely agree! “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is threshing.” Deuteronomy 25:4
My workplace put me at risk of redundancy in three restructures in 2011, 2013 and again in 2016. I eventually just left because it was too disruptive to my life and career - HR and even the Union were no help. I heard there were two more after I left in 2018 and 2022.
@@louis-philippearnhem6959 I like that....I should read the bible one day
I'm looking for an academic/teaching job at the moment, and my mum and I were talking about being "indispensable". But I don't think that matters anymore, because we've become a society which doesn't value "improvement" - and that means that it's no longer worth taking someone on who may become a brilliant employee within a year, because everyone now is interchangeable.
This point 👌!!
Spot on!!
I’ve been trying to say the 70’s was a better era than current (and that was with Industrial strife bearing in mind inflation was caused by the oil crisis not a broken socioeconomic model) era. People aren’t valued.
I was recently made redundant. I’m 45 years old.
I’ve missed out on so many jobs because I’m “not fitting the model they are looking for”. Meaning Russell Group educated and young. And sadly that perfection they just can’t find. Those people have all gone off abroad.
I’ve now found a company in a contractor basis and being part of their meetings the main reason the company is outperforming it’s budget is because it’s not meeting it’s recruitment plan. Ergo it’s losing productivity.
KEEP PEOPLE AND INVEST IN THEM!!!
Britain is obsessed with getting productivity by squeezing people and forcing longer hours and worse conditions - well those chickens have come home to roost because the UK workforce has to a certain extent given up and just drifts through work disillusioned with nothing to look forward to. You won't get better productivity until you treat people better.
I’m nine weeks into a job at the NHS and I can tell you it’s fucking given up on itself. So depressing. I’m using a program as my main data system that was released in 90/91. I have to type in fucking codes to print of lists. Everyone just does what they’re told and accepts things are failing. I’ve had to cancel overdue cancer clinics when the patients were already on their way in two hours out. “I’m going to die before I’m seen” are words that I will never forget, and there is nothing to celebrate. Times are only gonna get worse across the board. I want to stay but working at a dead end job with no meaning means possibly less money and less meaning, which is as depressing as doing what I’m doing now while I’m always broke. I wonder what I’ll be like in another five years. Happy? Dead? In prison? Or just trying to make my way still. Who fucking knows but I can’t see myself being happy in five years.
True. France has the 35 hour week, with exemptions but its productivity is higher than the UK. Bureaucracy in France is a nightmare but one way or the other it works. Low productivity has bedevilled the UK economy since 1980 with neither party capable of solving it. Lack of investment in skills and training, long hours, presenteeism, weak unions with little bargaining power, lack of collective bargaining, and many workers just going through the motions are all factors in the malaise.
Not so long ago, 13 yrs or more we had record productivity and record growth! I wonder why?
@@eightiesmusic1984
Scotland's the only Nation in the UK that runs a surplus in trade.
England has one of the Worlds Worst trade deficits it doesn't produce enough and imports more than it exports. A total basketcase and we should ditch it like the 65 other countries have.
@@chrisgray4651 that seems about the time Jimmy Saville died. Coincidence?! I think so
I moved to Denmark 9 years ago and I've watched Britain crumbling during that time. From Brexit to successive incompetent and populist (Tory) goverments, it's been a sh*tshow to watch from afar. If the UK could borrow just 10% of Denmark's social and economic system then it would already be a vast improvement. However, it's outdated two party political system doesn't allow for long term planning so the whole electoral system needs to change for that to happen.
Yes, how shocking that a democratic country had the audacity to run a vote to see whether the population wanted to be part of the EU! Who would think of doing such a thing!? Apparently, only one country out of all of them.
As for "populism", this is a meaningless slur used by one end of politics. When you break it down, "populism" consists of nothing more than advocating for policies which represent voters preferences. It's constant use by the left wing to disparage right wing parties shows how a large portion of the political class views voters as a necessary nuisance, which serves only to elect the class into parliament, so it can then give you the decisions it knows You need. It is hard, however, to see how the Tories could in any way be called "populist". Effecting Brexit was a duty of any government which was in place. Covid policies and responses were more or less identical across all countries. The Tory party has aggressively pursued green energy transition. Is that "populist"? Well, actually green politics is absolutely "populism", but hey that's ok because its the populism of the extreme left wing rather than the extreme right wing.
I am highly amused that the political system in the UK is viewed as "outdated". What would be a better alternative? Maybe Italy's system? Or, what exactly? It sounds like @culturalfloyd is opposed to having elections at all, as ANY system which has periodic elections tends to be a problem for 'long term plannning'.
Just yesterday I arrived back from a weekend break in Copenhagen, and I can totally agree with what you say. The UK can learn a lot from countries like Denmark. You're very lucky to live there.
@alexanderSydneyOz first past the post is widely considered to be outdated, and we're one of very few developed countries still using the system. Proportional representation the clear alternative proven to work in westernised countries, arguably more democratic in representing all voters across the spectrum. Putting words in OP's mouth, getting defensive about a referendum and govt which both caused the country empirical/measurable harm, and deflecting on the UKs abysmal covid response policy (pan-Asian response for example resulted in >1000 deaths in the first year on higher population density) reeks of sunk-cost fallacy. As a centrist I respect the right wing views of my fellow countrymen. At some point they must stop projecting, and that everything from GDP to public services to immigration to basic freedoms are objectively worse than before the tories took power in 2010
The electorate needs to change.
That is spot on 🎉
We simply don't have the intellect, vision & competency within our elected officials to make the tough choices to move this country forward. Until that changes, nothing will for the better. It's really that simple.
nobody wants to do the work, the only reason sunak took the office, nobody else wanted to deal with the mess that UK is atm and it doesn't look like it will get better anytime soon, on the contrary, we have a looming economic crisis
Because too many of those voting for those officials also lack the intellect, vision and competency to see through tabloid lies and simplistic three word slogans.
I absolutely agree with this comment 100 % and that for me is the big flaw in all this .Third rate politicians who think they know it but dont just look at the,Tory track record as a fine example.And now we have Grant Snaps in charge of our armed forces having just left a mess behind with the failed offshore wind auction ,need I say more
I tend to think it is the fault of the system rather than the people. The system has been set up to maintain the status quo so that companies can continue to do what they like making massive profits without worrying politicians are going to stop them. The whole system needs to change.
Sad but true. It really needs a complete
Andrew, it's not really a rich country for the vast majority of people. Enormous inequality. Until you have a decent tax system that taxes wealth instead of income, the situation will just get worse.
That's immoral, you can't tax wealth, you have to ensure the correct tax is paid in the first place! Once the tax has been paid, that's it.
What happens when you have taxed all the wealth away? You want a welfare state and a wealth tax.
Increased value of property and land is NOT taxed income.
@@disillusionedanglophile7680 Well really just a functioning country that doesn't look like its 1899 all over again. no open ended wealth tax need be there, it can be very carefully prescribed with a plan on repayment later (to the value of less than was requisitioned) - For the good of the nation, of course. Any company or individual that refuses or makes intention of leaving has all trading ceased and citizenship revoked.
A small first step would be to tax earned and unearned income at the same rates.
A small example of UK economy crisis.
When over 100,000 Uber and Bolt drivers are paying 40-60% of their earning to only two private companies, which the same drivers used to pay only 15% of their earnings, how would they ever afford the basic needs while the big corp and getting fatter everyday.
The big tech companies erode local businesses and the high street leading to inflation as money leaves the nation while the corporations themselves pay zero tax here.
I'm a Malaysian working in Singapore. Both countries are in the Commonwealth and have millions of investment in the UK, but most if not all of them were prior to Brexit. This was due to the familiarity of the language, laws, culture and much more due to being former colonies of the British. In short, we were used to the British and found it easier to invest in the UK because of that, and as a gateway into the EU. Post-Brexit, businesses here are concentrating on investments in the EU directly, and bypassing the UK, despite the different legal systems and languages. Oh, and Malaysia and Singapore are part of ASEAN (Association of South-East Asia Nations), which aspires to integrate their economies like the EU.
As for the Brexiter's dream or aspiration of becoming a Singapore-on-Thames, well, Singaporeans are more pragmatic and realistic than Brexiters. They had to be in order to create the modern and successful Singapore that Brexiters want to emulate. Ask them if they want to exit ASEAN or exit the EU if they were part of it, the answer would be a resounding NO.
Almost everybody here that I talked to about Brexit thought that it was financial and business suicide for the British. And most if not all, put it down to the UK harking back to the days of the British Empire. It wasn't helped by the fact that many Brexiter politicians and businessmen thought that the Commonwealth and the World would gladly trade with the UK on an individual basis. Why should they? And what advantage is there to trading with the UK when it is not a gateway into the EU? Business is business, and it would always look at the bottom line. Brexiters seemed to have forgotten that, or totally ignored it altogether.
Very much so, speaking as a Singaporean. The UK being the "culture" we are familiar with, is practically the foundation on which the UK build their modern economy when they were in the EU. Brexit, is led by a bunch of very wealthy, semi-racist, aristocratic wannabe, most likely grew up being told they are 'great' but never bother to learn how they got their wealth. They think the British Empire was great, great for their upper class, not so much for everyone else, the colonies especially.
People like to use Singapore as an example for every conservative "free-market" wet dream. But there's not going to be Singapore-on-'________' anywhere. Singapore is at the tip of the Strait of Malacca. It's the definitive sea route for 3-4 continents & 2-3 transcontinental regions. No amount of empty confidence in past glory is going to replicate that. Singapore government likes to posture "free-market" as a marketing strategy, but the government is highly involve in the running of the economy. Because an unregulated, unrestrained market is an unstable market. By US and UK conservative political spectrum, we are practically commies.
@@biocapsule7311 VERY well said ! 👍
@@hestiyani337 Christine Laggard was convicted of negligence in the handling of the Bernhard Tapie case because, as French economy minister, she hastily agreed to a settlement with French businessman Bernard Tapie in an arbitration case in 2008, not of fraud. Her appointment as head of the IMF, for which she was elected for two terms, had nothing to do with it; The same applies to her later appointment as head of the European Central Bank.
The low or zero interest rate policy of central banks (including the US and British) was a reaction to the financial and banking crisis of 2007/2008, which was followed by a blank bail out of the US American banks and partial nationalization of others. The only central bank of the G20 countries with still Zero or Minus interest rate are Japan (-0.1%) and Switzerland (1.75%).
It is not the job of central banks to grant profits for private banks but to ensure price stability.
CBDC (Central Bank Digital Currency) is not comparable with cryptocurrency, but rather digital central bank money, which has the same exchange properties as the well-known bank money, but is legally regulated and therefore legally secure; the reason why cryptocurrency is not widely accepted as a means of payment but is purely an object of speculation.
The rest is exaggeration and speculation.
@@hestiyani337 A suspicion that has not been proven is still just a suspicion.
'Your information is factually incorrect. Low interest rates was not a reaction to 2007/2008 banking crisis. it was the cause.'
Not true! If you look at the figures of G7 countries, their interest rates started to go down in earnest in 2012 and 2015, after the sub-prime credit crunch infected. The FED scaled down the interest rate sharply starting in 2001 with the bursting of the DotCom bubble. The 1% rate remained from June 2003 to May 2004 and was gradually increased from then on.
There is no such thing as legal or illegal money when it comes to accepted currency.
@@biocapsule7311So true, I guess our only hope is to go on laundering the worlds dirty money.
We were told we had to make "hard choices" back in 2010. And look how that is currently turning out, 13 years later.
Cameron and Osborne and their crew sold us a lemon. The idea that the financial crisis was caused by Wolverhampton having too many libraries, as Alexei Sayle said.
If labour were the answer they would still be in power. But they aren't
@@thecheesefactor I'm sure someone will reassure us by putting forward "Lessons have been learned" and "We've now put a line under it"
Funny how "hard choices" translates into, "cut funding to the poorest"
Blair made it a law that refugees had to be given 3 star hotels as accommodation
I left the UK in 1976 seeing no future in a country with no vision or leadership.
Over the ensuing half century, nothing has happened to change my opinion or make me regret my decision to leave. Brexit is just the latest in a long line of inevitable outcomes following decades of this lack of vision and leadership, leading to the UK's current confusion and decline.
I have left several times, but have ended up back here as I wanted to be back in my community, family and long-term friends. When times get hard, I prefer to be with my loved ones. I prefer to see things out with them rather than alone in another country. And I am not even British!
Of course it’s a distraction - deliberately so. Politicians would much rather deal with some faux outrage than actually have to answer difficult questions and justify the effects of their policies.
You mean like millions of benefit cheats from the 3rd world
And the public as well.
They are still burying bad news . The distractions are planned.
There was a major distraction with the prison escape. All over my feed. One person! Who cares. Meanwhile well over one-hundred school ceilings are near-collapse.
The accusation is; that the pig-headed pursuit of Brexit, that is rejection of our best trading opportunities, is the key policy which is most adversely affecting the nation ...
Brexit was such a disastrous idea, this makes me depressed just listening to this!!!
The EU is pointless- it's a wasteful layer of government which would never be "needed" if governments of the member states, allowed free trade in the first place.
It was, is , and will remain a genius idea ,and we thank Saint Farage for fighting for us .. A valiant hero
The saddest part of this was we should have been borrowing to invest and grow our economy whilst money was cheap to borrow. 13 years of completely the wrong fiscal approach during periods of record low interest rates - austerity. Madness.
Assuming we could have locked in those low interest rates and also remembering that we have a huge debt already. How much more debt do you want? Another trillion?
@@azaverya who does the government owe debt to, azaverya?
@@azaveryaIf it goes into investment, yes. The UK could have paid very little for long-term money in the wake of 2008 - so long as the things it was investing in had rates of return above that, then yes, it would have been a very good idea.
It's what banks do - borrow cheap, lend dear.
The UK still creaks along on pretty old infrastructure.
Totally wasted opportunity.
@@azaverya You're buying into the regressive notion that government debt is equivalent to personal debt. All Western nations run huge debts, all it does is make you less likely to be lent to if you become a risk i.e. you can't afford to pay back your debts and the rates you borrow at go up. If you effectively reduce economic output through lack of investment you end up in a terrible situation like we are now, then you can't do anything, you can't cheaply borrow more money to invest and grow your way out. In the meantime, the rich have just got richer during this period. Austerity has completely failed. You can reduce debt by cuts or your reduce debts by growth. Which do you think is better for the UK?
In summary, UK is a small economy vs USA vs EU and not being part of an EU economy 5x larger (based upon GDP) is madness.
I disagree with you for a whole raft of reasons you don't want to know about or find unimportant.
In summary, yes.
The EU is a dying enterprise with waning authority even inside its own borders. It's only a matter of time before Italian, French or even German voters pull the plug. The more it doubles down on utterly insane Net Zero policies, the more hated it will become.
Where Brexit comes into its own is when the wheels finally fall off the Net Zero bandwagon. Sooner or later some grown up decisions will have to be made and we'll be able to make them without going cap in hand to Brussels to ask permission. I think things have got to get a whole lot worse before the penny drops, but Britain will be the more agile economy and the benefits of independent energy policy will be quite obvious.
Britain is certainly better off outside the EU's carbon border tax regime when it comes to infrastructure renewal.
The next general election will be a stay at home election, where Labour will have to work hard to lose it. But either way, whoever wins will be a lame duck government in a matter of weeks, riddled with internal conflict and widely despised by the public. I'll be surprised if it even clings on for a full parliamentary term without having to go back to the country.
The problem is that neither party is prepared to offer voters anything they actually want. The culture gulf between the people and their politicians is too wide. It can only deliver an unspoken constitutional crisis, for which there is no relief mechanism. Parliamentary "democracy" and the social contract can only deteriorate further.
Arresting the decline seems unlikely unless an outsider can break through, with some sort of vision and a sense of purpose, and I don't see that entity on the horizon.
It's only when the basics cease to function and we can't even keep the lights on that the people of Britain will stir.
It's going to take more poll tax riots and a withdrawal of consent.
Blade Runners ripping down ULEZ cameras is a welcome beginning, but it's going to take all-out defiance.
Brexit will come good in time.
When we have a government willing and able to make laws in the public interest, on the side of the people, Brexit is worth having.
But we are a long way away from that. Simply leaving the EU was never going to be enough. After all, EU membership was merely a symptom of our political malaise. Leaving was just a prerequisite to revitalising our democracy.
Remainers now think we can return to the EU fold incrementally, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
French protectionism will see to it that we never rejoin the single market or get an SPS deal.
For now, though, Britain languishes in a Brexit limbo, awaiting the democratic correction that's been building for decades. One that will not tolerate the shackles imposed on it by the politics of the twentieth century. The rejoiners can have their middle class AstroTurf marches and wave their little flags, but they'll be drowned by the tsunami of change when the British people put their foot down.
Have a little faith my friends. We are going to win... Eventually.
Poor old EU hasn't got the funding from the UK to bail them out anymore now Germany has to do it, no wonder there economy going down the pan fast and BMW has invested £600 million into the UK instead of the EU there not stupid like some of the comments on here......
EU as a place doesn't exist ..need to compare country by country ..and whether u want to be a member of a club ..
The best way to tax wealth is to tax property, as ultimately most wealthy people park their money in property, especially in the UK, often in search of passive income. And you can't move property overseas. Concomitantly, income taxes should be lowered.
Now the one problem with this is that you can end up double-taxing people who are retired (or approaching retirement) and who would potentially be shafted by such a switch. You'd need a switchover period (probably around 20 years) in which you'd reduce property taxes for individuals who had already paid a lot of income tax in their lives. And it would also require better financial planning for retirement, because you would pay less tax overall during your working years but more during your retirement years. It could be done, but most political parties would lack the will to do it.
Tax the rich . nice idea. The rich are too slippery.... Squeezing Mercury is as successful. NOT ! !
We see, all the time where the money goes. Stop pretending there were historical shortages. The money got stolen..
The thing to bear in mind about Trump is that he lost the popular vote twice, lost the whole electoral college once, and when he managed to insert himself into the midterms he single-handedly reversed what was widely expected to be a Republican sweep. It's true that the indictments have done nothing to reduce the enthusiasm of his supporters (perhaps the reverse), but that's the same group that have always voted for him and always will. It was barely enough to get him elected once, it wasn't enough to get him elected twice, and it's not enough to get him elected again. He might not be losing support, according to the polls, but this circus isn't persuading anyone who didn't vote for him last time to vote for him next time. This far out polls about a potential match-up in November 2024 are meaningless, and due to the electoral college system national polling is always irrelevant. The battle-lines are drawn and the only thing that matters is the change in the demographics and turnout of the swing states. Who voted last time but died or moved out of state, and who moved into the state or turned 18 in the past four years. You'd need to look at some data, but given what we know about the politics of young people, old people, and state-to-state migration patterns I'd guess most swing states are swinging away from Trump.
In 2016 Trump received around 63 million votes. In 2020 he received around 74 million votes - more than Barack Obama received in either 2008 or 2012.
The big story of the 2020 election was the incredible, unprecedented, astonishing, super-popularity of Joe Biden. Biden received the most votes of any candidate in US history, around 12 million more votes than Barack Obama. Biden is so amazingly charismatic, he’s actually MORE popular among African American voters than Obama was in 2008 or 2012.
Turnout in 2020 was the highest in any US election since the 19th century, leaping way ahead of the 2016 election. Over 21 million more Americans voted in 2020 than voted in 2016. Somehow, the Democrats under Biden suddenly became amazingly good at politics in some wholly new way. If the Republicans can’t figure out what that new way is, and if they can’t figure out how to copy it or negate it, they will lose again in 2024, whoever the candidate is.
Agreed, Trump seems to have a lock on the Republican nomination (for now) but he cannot win the general election. He's a proven three-time loser since his electoral college victory (and popular vote loss) in 2016, and his megalomaniacal narcissism repels anyone who is not already a dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporter. The number of Trump detractors on the right has only grown, while the number of Trump supporters in the middle has not IMO increased.
Yep, I keep saying this - while it's not good to be complacent, people must remember trump lost the popular vote TWICE.
I'm not so sure Biden hasn't been the fresh air that was needed after Trump ,I only hope he doesn't get in again surely with 331.+ million people living in the states there has to be a better choice
Thank you for the much needed encouragement. Here’s hoping you’re right.
Thank you for a great summary of the situation in the UK. As a Swede I must say you lose interest in the UK after brexit which is sad. Before we ordered allot of things from web-shops in the UK. But after trying 5 times and everything gets stuck in customs and returned to sender you stop ordering stuff from the UK and there is rarely anything on the news about it anymore. Sad.
But what seem to forget is that, "you need us more than we need you!" Britain was the sick man of Europe before they joined in the 70s and they once again the sick man of Europe. We just dont learn.
@mark
Piffle
Interesting. We get "stuff" from the UK to our address here in Australia faster than we do from within the country.
Still reckon Brexit was a huge own goal, however.
We ship to the Nordic countries all the time.... No major issues I can recall, get more problems shipping in the US, which funnily enough was never in the EU 🤣
@@gibfear if it says UK on the supplier in Amazon we just chose something else.
Keynesian economics is the answer. Neoliberalism has to be reversed to start undoing the disastrous consequences of policies pursued since 1979 by successive governments. The Trente Glorieuse was the outcome of Keynesian levers in France, and here it was the less glamorous sounding post war consensus. Labour must tax the rich and inevitably will, no matter what it says this side of the general election, and borrow on a large scale to invest in infrastructure. Will the Blairite right be able to shake off its belief in neoliberalism as an article of faith? I doubt it but events will probably force the issue. Britain is in a crisis more complex and deep rooted than the war and that was colossal in 1945; nothing less than the abandonment of neoliberalism by the public and ruling class is urgently needed. Will Hutton nailed the issues in The Observer last Sunday.
I wrote this earlier: THERE ARE NO QUICK SOLUTIONS no amount of Labour is going to fix this - THIS IS COLLAPSE - Technically it is sigmoid collapse and the UK is now in the near vertical "freefall" part of that.
You are experiencing cascading systems failure - everything is broken and everything you need to fix it is also broken. This period of collapse usually lasts about 10 years followed by 5 years of stagnation and then recovery starts. You can invest hundreds of billions £ into the infrastructure, education, science but its going to take 15 years just to START having an effect.
The UK will also have to rejoin the EU before recovery can happen. I write books on this stuff and this is a severe "fourth turning" collapse. They happen every 80 to 100 years and this is an exceptionally bad one.
The UK is going to have to invest £500 billion if not £1 trillion and totally reinvent its political and governing structures. The Britain that emerges from this depression will NOT be even recognisable - this is the collapse of the USSR moment for the UK.
You're nuts, vote 🔶️LIB DEM🔶️
@@jakel8627 Their support for austerity is one of the reasons why Britain is in dire straits. Orange book liberalism has a lot to answer for. They walked away from a coalition with Labour which would have been the least worst alternative given all three main parties' commitment to neoliberalism.
@@jakel8627 No he is not nuts, he is mostly correct. Personally, I think the era of capitalism its self is over globally, but that aside neoliberalism has destroyed the working people of the west. the ONLY hope for saving capitalism is a reimagining of it along the lines of American New Deal only with more regulation and even more investment in especaily green tech.
Personally, I think its over for the west. The reporting on the BRICS+ summit was notable by what it didnt say, American hegemony ended 2 at the summit. The world is a new world facing very new challenges. Britain is a flea on the arse of the world, the fastest collapsing country in a declining west.
Trente Glorieuses is a myth. French people were not more happier then. Guess that people that are speaking with regrets about the Trente Glorieuses in France are the same kind of old fars that voted for Brexit in UK....
Someone has to address the elephant in the room. Brexit was bad idea and most of the people knew it. But it become culture war and many people fell into the lies.
Germany is in recession, the eu isnt as rosey as you wish it to be
@@clarkhunt4014 But it will recover because it has strong fundamentals,democracy and economy and is in the heart of the EU.
The UK is alone a fatally wounded failing state.
Have you studied Target 2 imbalance? If not then you don't know the truth.
@@SirAntoniousBlock The EU has relied on Gemany's manufacuring strength which was built on cheap Russian energy - this has now gone and Germany is deindustrialising...to cut a long story short, they are also in the poo...
No I would still vote out.
In 2016 tRump congratulated the UK for Brexit. That tells it all; more so, because he did it after saying that England, Great Britain, Britain, and UK were just synonym names for the same thing... and he said that in Scotland.
The EU has already said extensively that it does not make deals on specific products, so labor can jump high and low, but nothing will change. the eu has also said that there will be no new negotiations on any level. Brexit is done for the EU
Indeed. The EU will not grant privileged market access on those terms, because doing so would undermine its own industries.
@@plokijplokij97 Recent polls in the UK say otherwise. A clear majority thinks Brexit was a mistake and would vote to "rejoin". It is increasingly difficult to hide the impact of Brexit or to distract from it. So it looks like the UK is far from being done with Brexit.
As for relationships: it just takes one side to quit and it is over. It was a unilateral decision by the UK to leave the EU. But once the shock on EU side was over it took a very rational and professional approach to get Brexit done. But I agree with you on the point that undoing Brexit is not possible.
@@plokijplokij97 The recent polls I saw had about 60% in favor of rejoin.
Incoming checks for goods from the EU have recently been postponed again since they would create more cost on these goods (inflation). But these checks would not be necessary without Brexit. And you want to tell me that Brexit has no impact in inflation...
@@plokijplokij97 These checks will have to come since they are mandatory under WTO rules.
That neither Tories nor Labour doesn't support joining but 60% of the people now are in favor of that tells you everything about your broken political system and the politicians themselves.
@@plokijplokij97 Regardless of what you call them they might sooner or later have to deal with the public opinion. They want to be elected next time after all.
When in the middle of it, it’s hard to judge whether one’s perception of British decline is overstated, but it’s even harder to be positive about the current state of affairs. We really have taken a plethora of wrong turns since 1945, especially since the 1970s.
Yep, the British have worked quite hard on developing their unenviable reputation for deceit and treachery. Unreliable Little Britain.
I emigrated to Mexico 30 years ago and now, when I visit, it feels as if I'm going slumming. Except for the insanely expensive prices.
read Imperial Obituary
@@rebecca.smith. there is an element of that - all empires crumble
The simple fact of the matter is that the UK without it's empire never did make it as a modern nation, you cannot live on the legacies of the past forever.
I'm a Brit living in Ireland for the last five years, and I watch the UK with sadness, especially after Brexit. Isolationist is too strong a word but it does seem that the UK psyche prefers an independent and self made path, but there isn't a strong economy or government or sense of community to make it work.
To make it work, you would need and expect sacrifices that just do not sit well with the modern British Public, especially when the vast majority of the public KNOW that there are those who are not "in it with them" and who will not themselves voluntarily make the same sacrifices they will ask everyone else to make. Isolationist is NOT too strong a word, but it is an inaccurate word to describe the current state of the UK. The term I would use is Delusional
It was all an English idea.
Trade with the E,U is a record level of £94 billion. inward investment in high tech is also at a record high. Cars from Germany are way down, giving us our best balance of payments with the E.U for decades. We will see what Conor Mcgregor can do with your immigration and violence problem
UK has been punching way above its weight for a while now, no surprise then to see the decline, especially now when most but not all politicians are self serving businessmen.
yeah cuz the cnts think they are still British empire, they are smaller than New Zealand, they should keep their mouth shut instead of trying to be this two faced super power
Perhaps,but even economically the UK has undermined its status with brexit for a short time at least.
We have to move on from Brexit it's done finished & that's that, if we went back in how would the millions who voted out feel ? Would you seriously expect them to just roll over & except it seriously !!!
@@johnfitchie9892 of course brexit is done and dusted, but one has to find a way to deal with its consequences .
The only way to deal with the consequences, is to put it behind us & move forwards something that a lot of remainers and civil servants in important positions appear unwilling to do, like it or not it was a democratic vote won by the leave campaign, probably the only time since I became eligible to vote, where all votes cast were of equal merit, which makes it even more imperative, that everyone moves forwards in good faith.
Insightful. I am a Brit living in Northern Europe, and the UK seems to have no interest in learning from the experience of others. A happy, healthy and well educated workforce are the bedrock of a country that can afford to develop. Additionally it is obvious to the country where I live that trade, and international relations with the most important, and emerging markets, is key to developing the domestic economy. When healthy, happy, and well educated people are participating in the economy taxes are paid, and profits are made.
Bollocks I’ve worked in Germany, France and Norway. You’re talking crap
@@Gary-bz1rfas of today, GDP fell to -0.5. Not a good figure in my books.
You will never get that in this country as long as it is run by the old boy public school net work. As it has been since the beginning of time.
@@Gary-bz1rf lol absolutely delusional! You don't actually believe what you have just typed do you? The average growth of Poland for last decade is 3.6%, average growth of UK over same period.... 0.5% lol Lemme guess you voted for Brexit?
Indeed, the conservative side of politics in Australia is run by the old-boy public school network. Interestingly they are out of office except in one state. On top of that, they have a highly patronizing attitude toward females and as a consequence, the female vote and membership have drifted to Labor and minor parties. @@bbcisrubbish
One of the best pieces of journalism I have seen for a long time
I enjoyed it. It was un-Marred by the usual ideological dogma the Brexit and Freedumb snowflakes infect everything with.
The Swiss style deal that Andrew is talking about is not available. The EU27 do not want Switzerland to have it anymore and Switzerland is a much smaller economy. The UK has few choices...
You’ve misunderstood. He’s not talking about a Swiss style deal. Or Norway, or Turkey or anything like that.
He’s talking about the degree of trust the EU can have in the UK’s exports. The better the UK’s alignment with EU rules is the less the EU will feel the need for zealous checks and paperwork requirements. Particularly with regard to NI. it will also allow the existing agreements to operate more smoothly as well as maybe allowing re-admittance to various programmes.
@@thetruth9210Yes, imports from ANY third country are checked.
After 47 years of former EEC/EU membership you might be acquainted with the rules.
Apparently you're not.
Thank you for having brexited. Your best contribution in 47 years of EEC/EU membership.
Greetings from the EU 🇪🇺
Yeah but we’ve got Spitfires so they’re bound to give us a deal.
@@magnificentbastard5085 All of this aligning will not remove the trade barriers. Imports from third countries need to be checked according to the rules. End of.
Also: if a Labour government was more trustworthy .... the next Tory government will be as untrustworthy as any previous. Would mean the EU needed to change her procedures every 5 years, back and forth (or every 3 years, or every 2 months, etc) whenever a new UK government is established.
Spoiler: won't happen. For obvious reasons.
Other than that: 2.5 years after the UK left the SM (when the grace period ended) the majority of EU customers have since long replaced former British suppliers with other ones.
You do not really expect those to ditch their new suppliers and go back from purchasing from UK suppliers? You grossly overestimate your importance.
@@thetruth9210
Yes they do. The EU isn’t known as a trade fortress for nothing.
The Scottish border wouldn’t be at all problematic for the EU. There are not many crossing points. And there is plenty of space on the 2 major ones for the necessary customs infrastructure to manage the necessary checks. So whilst that border would be pretty bad for both Scotland and England the EU wouldn’t be losing any sleep over it.
With all due respect, the Tory government DOES have the money to fix crumbling schools and NHS services. It just prefers to channel the money into the pockets of its wealthy donors, rather than maintain essential services for the public, whom they clearly despise.
This
Exactly- they have cut taxes to the rich by so much the basic services a modern European economy can expect are no longer delivered. It is no coincidence that the nations with the best services and happiest people are the highest taxed!
And the left just want to spend billions on foreigners. 5 million non whites since 1997. I work in the system. I see the money they get so you can lie all you want
Where is this money you speak of? Borrowing money is needed to pay for much of theings that are failing, though that has already been tried... and the banks said 'NO'!
@@stewartkingsley They tax the poor, then exempt corporations from tax - like the English water companies who save money for dividends by pumping sewage onto beaches and into rivers - and generally refuse to tax the wealthy. They can't borrow because you'd have to be insane to lend money to a Tory government.
Well said Andrew Marr! I moved to Denmark 30 years ago and it is so obvious that the UK is gradually falling to bits. Getting poorer and less productive as the days go by. Shocking to realise that the UK is soon to be overtaken by several former East European countries in terms of GDP per capita….
So immigration does not make the UK wealthier
@@JeanClaudeRocks immigration not the issue, those countries doing better are also taking in immigrants.
Its it how the immigrants are used and incorporated. When they come in purely for the benefit of employers, the infrastructure and supports are not there and all the residents suffer. When they are brought in to serve needs oiutside of CEO bonus development, then society can accommodate and benefit from them. Most economies in Europe and North America would benefit from immigrants if they were there to fill needs in socienty (including business), not there to serve corporat needs alone.
An econmy grow when built from workers up. Building companies (corp welfare and corp tax cuts, cheap imported labour)) does nothing for the public or the economy
Yes we are going to be rule takers and EU standard followers which is all fine with me. It is better than what we are getting now.
The only trouble is we are rule takers but I still do not get my EU rights and privileges back do I. I want my freedom of movement back for starters.
Why, you just cam't move to US.
If we are in the single market you do get freedom of movement.
@@paulthurman5517 Single Market and FOM are for EU and EFTA members only. The UK is neither.
My partner is Bulgarian and she is here working as per normal, do you have a problem following rules.
@@seamuspadraigsanders431Now you try going to Bulgaria
Just what you want to hear from a senior political commentator…”brace, brace, brace!”
Aren’t we the fifth largest economy in the world? If true, or even close to true, how do we square that with our crumbling services?
Used to be fifth. Now sixth. India recently overtaken the UK. This is the problem for post-Brexit. It will just slide further down the table.
Absolute size doesn’t matter! It is per capita data that really matters. And Brexit Britain is slowly disintegrating. Soon to be overtaken by former East European countries!!
Very true, we're now doing better than EU countries, Italy may well leave too & we've just found out our economy is in better shape, remainers hid massive figures in the ONS.
We need out of the ECHR.
They have stolen all the money. Read the panama papers leak. It explains how they have stashed it all in the British Cayman Islands and Panama. (No tax) When Britain collapses, they are off to their villas in the sunshine with their (our) £millions.
Austerity.
The UK STILL thinks any solution they find agreeable will be acceptable to the EU. The EU has tried this already with the Swiss and has been an uther headache for them. Very unlikely to happen.
Not very unlikely. 101% NOT going to happen.
Brexit has been a non-topic here in the EU since 3 years. Shortly after January 31st, 2020 still frequently mentioned in the news for the funny turn of events, as in: Dutch customs officer to Brit lorry driver: 'Welcome to the Brexit, Sir!'
After a couple of months: nothing, in general. Yesterday's news, done and dusted. You wanted to leave. You left. Alas.
Frankly, nobody misses you, nobody talks about you, nobody wants you back.
We have moved on, we have more important issues to deal with.
The EU ruled out a Swiss style deal as early as 2017. Nobody will ever get a Swiss style deal again - not even the Swiss would these days 😅.
Greetings from Bavaria
Edit 2 typos
Spot on
Sorry to say ,but I do agree!
@@EllieD.Violetso true!
The UK have friends in teh EU. Have been working hard to alienate them. But with sober UK regime Ireland, Scandinavia and the Dutch we want a co-operation with the UK. As a Scandibavian we always ahd it with the EU members Denmark7Sweden/Finaldn and non members ICeland/Norway. Works well and benfits us :)
A government with a large majority maybe strong but don't confuse strong with able and effective. Surely the past 4 years has taught us that.
A government with a large majority will follow the establishment.
A government with a small majority will follow establishment.
A hung parliament.........
Not sure I agree. In this period that the conservatives have been in power the rich have gotten markedly richer. Isn't that a success for them?
@aries6776 plenty of hawks on the left rubbing their paws together at the prospect of war and the riches it brings.
Prepare the trough for the next lot!
@@aries6776 sad but true!
It was crumbling before Brexit. That's why we needed to get out.
Agree. It appears the likes of Mr Marr have missed the fact that the EU's right-wing, neo-liberal economic policies, austerity programme and attacks on workers' rights have battered the working class on this island. Mr Marr has also seemingly missed the dire state of EU member states, and the protests going on in Europe. He also appears to have missed the fact that Germany is in recession and de-industrialising. Presumably Brexit is to blame for the EU's problems as well.......
Yes, but, there is the 350m a week isn’t there? And Levelling Up. #brexthick
What a sobering assessment of the current state of play. Brexit was too big a decision to give to Joe Public who invariably didn’t understand what they were voting on. Not an I told you moment…just the harsh reality. Always thought it was a gamble on national finances…little did people realise they actually hurt their own finances for years to come.
so if JOe Public cannot handle the vote... who are you advising can? The trustwothy politicians? the even better experts? none of which care for anything but lining their own pockets....
They knew exactly what they were voting for- English exceptionalism and exclusion of foreigners, they even said they knew there'd be an economic price to pay but they were prepared to pay it because of "sovereignty" or something....
Well the party is finished, all that remains is the hangover and the bill.
Yes, when the opposition get the result they don't like, it's suddenly because the electorate are too stupid to understand the choices. Foolish peasants. Keep them in the dark and allow no meaningful opinion. Sounds great - in a tyranny.
@@brokenglass570 _'it would take an idiot not to understand what they were voting for.'_
Err the same idiots that voted for the Tories, voted against PR, voted for the Tories again, voted for brexit, voted for the Tories again, and voted for the Tories again?
@@brokenglass570 The point is those who voted leave were lied to and voted leave without full knowledge of the consequences. The question may have been simple. The effects of leaving are not. Did you watch this?
We are run by "Professional" career politicians, that is the problem.
Most of whom are looking to line their pockets rather than serve the public
Private school, PPE at Oxbridge, Spad, MP. The career trajectory du jour
also "Professional" career client journalists like Andrew Marr.
Is it a problem when a professional career surgeon operated on you? Or dentist? Etc.
Politicians used to have belief and stood for something and represented the people that voted for them, now it’s just a career like any other with them trying to get ahead, I think that’s the point.
I'm studying a Master's degree on EU Politics and I can tell you the UK has been a pain in the neck for the Union since its joining in 1973. I'm glad they left and I hope they won't come back unless a very profound attitude change takes place first.
When will you do a degree that might get you a job ?
Won't be saying that when your speaking Russian 😂😂😂😂
Yeah suck on the teat of Germany and France, whilst the smaller member countries flounder and struggle. The EU stance on the Israel/Palestine issue, pretty well sums up their worth as a union.
One thing I leanred from four decades in the city of London is that a vast proportion of predictions of “educated” people will turn out to be utterly wrong.
What sets Marr's commentary apart, even for those of us with differing political orientations, is his interweaving of broad brush of history with the urgencies of the present Always thought-provoking, often illuminating.
It just provokes anger in me I'm afraid
He is a first rate journalist, thinker, writer of history and presenter. He does have a genuine and insightful understanding of history and how it relates to the travails of today. He is an excellent communicator, commanding the listener's attention. His recent book The Elizabethans was really good. The Making Of Modern Britain is a tour de force of television. Even the acting and role play works!
Yes, well said.
🤣😅 "First rate journalist" - just ask his wife and her dad...@@eightiesmusic1984
...Always thought-provoking, often illuminating........ and wrong.
One of the best analysis of where the U.K. is at at the moment, and the reason I emigrated
@@thetruth9210, oh trust me, we won't.
Good idea! Don't blame you.
@@thetruth9210if only people like you could Foxtrox Oscar from the UK we might stand a chance.
The U.K. is going to be facing a tougher time than most (all self inflicted) but a lot of what marr tanks about is going to be a problem for the world as a whole so emigrating isn’t going to fix it.
@@thetruth9210what reason would they have to come back? Having left the likes of you behind,!
I am 75 and have spent most of the last 33 years working in the East .... What a pleasure it has been to be with people who want to get things done and make things happen ...... Value and respect skills .....
We need PR and we need a written constitution which will end the Tory kleptoctacy for good.
Written constitution? How's that working out for the Americans? Not well seems to be the answer. They can't even agree the meaning of a two line 2nd amendment, let alone the 14th. or 25th.
Having a written constitution isn't working for the Russians either, and nor is much of their legal system. Come to think of it the American legal system is very dubious at times. At the same time the failures of part of a system can't reasonably be used to condemn the whole of it. The appropriate expression is "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."
The UK legal system works quite well in general, however, and so we need a way to use our legal system to ensure government can be challenged. At the moment there are virtually no laws which the PM, the cabinet, or parliament have to follow. Huge changes can be brought about without parliament even being consulted. For example, just last week the government removed legislation requiring equal pay for women without even consulting parliament (for political reasons the government performed a rapid U-turn and are now going to reverse this by Christmas).
No one is in a position to challenge such a change - which should surely require a supermajority in parliament, at the very least - in a court of law. Having a written constitution would be a big step in the right direction to prevent such abuse. @@rorykeegan1895
British governments keep failing British people because most people who vote end up getting little to no representation. The system does not work, but the British will never adopt Proportional Representation because the main beneficiary of the first past the post system, the Conservatives, need only label it a "European" way of voting and a huge chunk of the country will just switch off.
I think most people can see that the FPTP system is not working and would love PR but unless people stop voting red or blue it will not change because they will never give up their monopoly.
You're pushing PR because it helps your party. Just be honest about it.
@@terryboland3816 Which is another way of saying I like the FPTP system, because that gives us the means to ignore your party and its voters.. every coin has 2 sides.
@@terryboland3816 PR changes nothing either, as we have the same useless Lib/Lab/Green/CON tosspots, fully bought off by the people at the top.
@@terryboland3816 What's my party?The far right? The far left? Both sides gain, so if I support PR I am helping something I don't like, but that is democracy. I believe people who I don't agree with have the right to have their voice heard.
I once left a company for a better company which sadly started declining 1 year after working for the new company. I swallowed my pride and asked my former boss for my old job like Steve Jobs with apple. I ended up influencing my old company to make the necessary changes and I’m now one of the directors. I believe we should try and negotiate again with Europe for a SOFT BREXIT DEAL as hard Brexit is hurting us!!!!
there is no "Europe" to negotiate with.
Also, brexit is done and dusted for the EU, the Uk is now a regular 3rd country with an FTA at the level they wanted.
There is no need for the EU to start a long tedious negotiation process with an unreliable 3rd country everytime the UK has a new PM. Trade agreements are made for the long term.
The EU has warned the Uk over and over again that brexit would hurt, especially the one the Uk was choosing. Now it has to lie in the bed it wanted, it is of no concern to the Eu that hard brexit is hurting as expected.
I think it's too late. I think I remember someone (commentator, can't remember which one) saying Europe would insist on Britain changing currency to Euro as part of any renegotiation. I can't imagine that happening given the Brexit vote and how passionate people were around that issue the first time around.
@@MyDisavow there is no renegotiation.
The UK can apply for membership and will simply have to follow the procedures and live up to the conditions all EU applicants have to abide by. Euro included.
If that doesn't please the UK population it should just stay out.
Seems a bit too late for that
In spite of everything I'm sure the Europeans would have some sympathy
We are in trouble times, and the country seems to be in a spiral of decline.
The UK fucked up big time. Brexit was the worst decision the British people have made in recent history.
i hope so, if that's what it takes for cultural shift in the British exceptionalism.
@@melvinpenman1102good luck convincing the gammons
We'd better get back into the EU then hadn't we? NOT. LMFAO
@@DavidEdwards-uf5lg nobody said that?
Very interesting comments by Andrew Marr. Brexit unfortunately cannot be reversed. The UK as it is called now will become much poorer.
yeah it can but it will take 10 years. as Blair said a few weeks UK has to align with the EU this is quite easy because we have been a member before. first you start with small agreements veterinary food security like getting back in to Europol education horizon already done Erasmus is left. the visas for EU citizens to work in the UK then by the 2nd term of a labour government try to re-join.
@@genesis1765 No, it won't in 10 years either.
You fail to meet 50% of the accession criteria. See you in 2070.
Those EU members that profit from Brexit will veto. Any given time you apply.
Greetings from Bavaria
For sure !
@@EllieD.Violet all EU ambassadors couple of weeks ago met Starmer about trade. Germany has also individually have met the Labour Party. Let's see.
@@genesis1765 Who cares? Doesn't change above stated hard facts.
Rest assured that several of those EU members that profit from Brexit will veto.
Give me one, just ONE bloody reason why they wouldn't. They'd risk losing their gains in return for .... nothing. There's absolutely nothing the UK has to offer.
Just.
A.
Single.
Reason.
For.
Not.
Vetoing.
I'm waiting. 🍿🍿🍿
When I was 8 years old I remember my teacher saying Britain needed to be part of something big (EEC) as it was then, to be able to compete with the other big nations, ie America, Russia, China, which dominated, or became BRICS nations and that's why I voted Remain, for me it was that simple.
Trouble is..some teachers are liars
That’s an ego-driven decision. There’s no need to compete.
@@inthegym4679yeah Global Brexit Britain is going great isn't it.
The EEC no longer exists.
And some tell the truth as they see it, @@inthegym4679
Crisis causes change , equitable and fair taxing of capital and wealth has been sidelined for too long, after all the real money is not in workers salaries
Prior the collapse of the Soviet Union and associated Communist regimes in the eastern block, we used to call our countries Absurdistan. (The term was originally used by dissent for USSR itself, but e.g. for Czechoslovakia as well, I remember.) And it was very fitting indeed; you could see utterly absurd situations everywhere-that’s what inevitably happens when a country resigns on meritocratic governing and starts to follow dogmatic ideology. _Any_ ideology will take you there, not just communism… And Brexit is, clearly, an ideology, if not worse: a cult. Congratulations Britain, the title of Absurdistan is now officially yours. No? Well, just ponder the fact that one of the G7 countries has a system where it takes years to wait for treatment in hospitals, schools falling down, people who freeze in the winter and can’t afford buying food and the country is now so sovereign that it has to follow trading rules and regulations it has no say in. It makes international treaties for which the negotiators are rewarded by peerage and the *very same* negotiators condemn that treaty as poor and damaging for the country just a few months later. People constantly ranting about poor state of public matters while they keep on voting for the same governing party for more than a decade and in the name of sovereignty and democracy, the country is now on the path to abandon the European Convention on Human Rights, a foundation of one of the most praised public figures in the very same country’s history. Shall I continue?
Please do!
Seconded!
Yes
@@susannehartl3067 Very well, you asked for it...
So we're also talking about a country which tries to solve it's (alleged) immigration problem by locking immigrants in hotels and boats, paying millions to feed them, while its farmers and small businesses plead for workforce and crops are rotting in the fields. Instead of dealing with the asylum applications backlog, the government is wasting millions of pounds by conceiving crazy schemes of settling the immigrants in African countries or islands in the Atlantic ocean. A country which attempts to replace its economical cooperation with closest neighbours by hastily struck deals with its former colonies at the other side of the globe, deals which its own farmers deem destructive and highly favouring the other side. A country which exported the word "fair" into dozens of other languages, now being one of the most unequal ones in developed world. While praising democracy and celebrating having shaken off the shackles of the EU membership, the British union is denying its constituents the opportunity to even decide whether they wish to stay or leave themselves. And to cap it all, people are so much gaslighted by the joint brainwashing efforts of political populists and dishonest tendentious press that they buy foreign property and then vote to prevent themselves from living there.
And this is still but the tip of the iceberg. But it's too depressing; add your own...
@@vaclavkrpec2879if what you are saying about "staying or leaving themselves" is relating to the scottish we spent millions of pounds giving them the very chance to have a referendum on their future and they chose it quite resoundly. On brexit i completely agree, it was truly a mistake and it is personally quite amusing seeing Rishi Sunak completely reverse the course the insane Boris Johnson took in pulling us away from our partners. I bet Pan Tusk was having a bottle of champagne to himself chuckling, knowing that the UK couldn't even last 3 years without Europe. Alas the stupidity of it all. Hopefully keir starmer will try his best to mend the wounds and bring us down the right path. In the meantime ill just sigh and continue using my Irish passport
There has been plenty of money!! There still is plenty of money, but it is all in the same few pockets going round in circles. "Me and my mates" version of economics is part of what makes Britain such a difficult place to attempt to live.
Too many tax dodgers helped by accountants and offshore funds are bleeding the revenues of the Exchequer
The last 20 years have been problematical? 15 of those were inside the EU, surely? Brexit Britain may be facing hard choices, but many of these appear to predate Brexit.
You are correct but Brexit was the last straw for those without substantial incomes.
@@teddyboysdontknit810 How was the EU helping those without substantial incomes?
The conclusion is terrifying, because Starmer's Labour (even if by chance it won all seats in parliament) is not what's needed to face the challenges.
So what would be needed then? Probably a shared gov't.....
Couldn’t agree more with your Brexit comments. My SME was just breaking into the EU market before Brexit, we now can’t afford the extra fees and admin associated with exporting, so we stopped. Consequently, our turnover has reduced by 60% in that portion of our sales. I thought Brexit never included the single market and I’m not sure how that ever came about.
With single market comes free movement and you British wanted Poles and Romanians to be cut off from free movement. Cameron proposed that to Merkel before brexit vote
How could you ever think that leaving the EU wouldn’t include leaving the European Single Market?
@TheJonathanNewton if you look at the original arguments for Brexit it had nothing to do with the EEC
@@wertyks508 I have no objections to freedom of movement. I know many Poles, Romanians & other Eastern Europeans & they are far harder working & honest than many English
@@RobertHawkinsTotalWellness That is EXACTLY why they wanted brexit, how is the lazy unskilled british workforce supposed to compete with honest diligent competent foreigners swanning over here stimulating our economy , paying disproportionately more tax into the exchequer, taking disproportionately little from welfare, providing services and enriching our culture ?
The solution is very simple - tax the rich!!
... or tax the not so rich because there are more of them. Really the economy needs to have healthy growth, but it is dragged down by the millstone of Brexit (and also a dysfunctional, kamikaze Tory party).
With regard with trading with the EU we are already rule takers. If we don't meet their standards we won't be selling into their market
Which is everything wrong with the EU in the first place.
Prior to the Brexit referendum, I got phone calls from polling organisations asking me of my views, I said at the time that I would not vote for Brexit because the uncertainty meant we did not know what we were voting for and the likely financial and economic out come would be a disaster, 5 years later guess what
and the rest of the EU is simply flourishing. Really ?
@@kumasenlac5504 Better than stagflation UK and that's the point!
What is happening is the “proletarisation of the middle class”. With all the consequences that there might be.
That's absolutely a central transatlantic phenomenon that must be addressed.
Successful societies are defined by an economic Middle Ground that's long gone.
this is the most productive video that I have ever come across well thought and perfectly narrated to an historical detail influence of events that lead to this present time great work Andrew
Respect to Andrew Marr, always liked his direct analysis and value his point of view. Very valuable insight. Thanks 😊
I think Brexit will prove to be one of the biggest geopolitical mistakes of the 21st century.
And EU membership the biggest mistake we have ever made.
47 wasted years!
@@remoanersrknts6736 You have the right to an opinion, unfortunately your opinion isn't in line with the facts.
@@teddyboysdontknit810
Look at UK GDP growth since we joined the EU regime and then come back to me.
@@remoanersrknts6736have you been to Europe recently ? The state of our infrastructure , public spaces & the look of the population is awful in comparison. A theoretical 0.2 % growth is meaningless
@@richardh50
And all while we were members of the EU regime!
UK GDP growth has suffered steady decline almost from the day we left the EFTA.
Just how long do you suggest we continue scrapping along the bottom shackled to the Single market's rotting corpse for tariff free trade on 20% of UK exports?
No, the fundamental problem is the the population is too big for the economy. Think about that and let it sink in. When population growth exceeds economic growth, when most of that growth comes from property, you end up exactly where we are.
You're half right. The fundamental problem is that the economy can't support the size of the population, but the fundamental reason for that is that 1. too much of our productivity is owned by high wealth individuals and the share for everyone else is declining, 2. too many people are retiring and relying on their retirement funds, that are kept topped up by the 'active' economy that the rest of the population is driving. Nobody will vote for a government that promises to do the actual things necessary to fix this - controlling immigration reduces the number of tax payers which ironically makes the problem worse. Did you know the Chinese state owns the single largest property portfolio in the UK?
Agreed, over population is the issue
To any one who understood Brexit AND why it was a bad idea, it was obvious that post pre it the UK would have to accept EU rules for all goods and by extension services that the UK wished to supply into the EU. Very simple example would be screw threads. The EU uses metric threads. British industry used to use various other threads (UNF / UNC etc). I accept that has changed & most if not all of British industry now uses Metric Threads. BUT imagine it the likes of Rees- Mogg were to “impose” rules that British industry returned to the use of old imperial threads! The rest of the wold, let alone the EU would not accept our engineering! End of story!
What we need is a clear out of all these professional politicians who have no idea how the average person lives. Get rid of people who want a career in politics and have people who want to serve their country after success in their occupation. Kier Mather , labour age 25 studied politics at Oxford! He’s now going to vote in parliament. We need to return to a better calibre of person not these cardboard cutouts!
Didn't you consider to be elected and work for good of the country? Or you just sit and do absolutely nothing, but giving free global geopolitical advices?
Yes, our economy with £800 billion in taxes taken just last year is so small that we couldn't possibly find the £400million it would cost to make sure the schools don't fall down, right?
I know this is extreme left policy for New Statesman, but maybe if we stopped spending £2billion on prison ships, £60billion on a pointless nuclear deterrent, a couple of £billion putting asylum seekers in hotels rather than the £200million to just process them, or finding out how £50billion was handed to Conservative peers during Covid for pretty much nothing in return, and if all that fails, tax corporations and capital gains properly so that they are not paying less on their profits than your average Conservative worker does in Income tax on his/her 40-60 hour week's worth of work, then maybe JUST MAYBE we might have some money for public services, infrastructure, and investment in industry to get the economy growing.
Or we could just keep allowing multi millionaires to become billionaires, because trickle down has worked so well for us up to now, right?
An excellent, insightful assessment of the socio-political road ahead! What could be added to the list of big issues is the economic and human consequences of climate-induced “natural” disasters, which, undoubtedly, will increase in severity and frequency. And then there is the anthropogenic destruction of the natural world and its impact on food security, which will have a global affect (albeit disproportionately). Both aspects are likely to be felt more acutely in Britain because of Brexit.
“ to the realization that we cannot re-create, and will not re-create the single market for the United Kingdom, and when it comes to the past, the future will be different, but I think we can have a much stronger relationship.” EUs official opinion about this.
brexit always meant losing sovereignty, it was all about giving up control. If we want to trade with any big trading block on the scale we used to trade with the EU we have to acsept their regulations, their laws, their standards. Its just that the brexiteers hoped we would be taking on the USA's standards which of course would mean lower worker protections, lower food safety and environmental standards and such. But that hasn't worked out. But whatever way you slice it, we used to help write the rules in the EU and now we will be put in a position of following other people's rules or living in poverty. And thats not much of a choice. UK politics is still in a weird limbo where no one wants to say out loud that the brexit king has no clothes. And many are still wholehearted true belivers in brexits invisible clothes. But our politics is going to have to snap out of that sooner or later
well they can run off and his in their second home in Dorset.
When people voted for Brexit or not, it wasn't about sovereignty, it was about whatever individuals would believe it would / wouldn't bring, something that was as clear as mud, as not even politicians knew what it would bring. You could argue that Britain already lost it's sovereignty before Brexit, as manufacturing moved abroad because labour costs are cheaper, something that the EU enabled by allowing good and people to move freely between countries.
Rubbish we trade with multiple countries across the world and adhere to their standards as they do to ours . As for a voice in the Eu just look how many times we were overruled compared to winning .
Brexit king has no clothes. Plenty have always said so even before the corrupt campaigning of 2015. Though the offshore-owned ultra conservative media in UK along with Tory-run BBC sold Brexit with every breath to enough unsuspecting voters.
Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999
Thanks Andrew. I was in a pretty upbeat mood before I watched this.
Lol 😂
Just to be controversial: I'm a born-in-Yorkshire UK citizen, who moved to New Zealand and became a citizen here after Gordon Brown was elected PM-cos I thought no bigger disaster could befall the UK. I'm anti-Brexit and Johnson: however, having visited England and Scotland recently, I don't recognise Andrew Marr's Britain. Lots of new cars; pubs and restaurants full of clients, and my relatives who have an import/export business were more worried by price rises following the invasion of Ukraine. Decline and fall may be imminent but they're not evident as yet.
As a Dutch citizen I say we Europeans have to, despite of some complaints, be fuqqing proud of what we have build on our continent. It’s so incredibly sad that a part of the British don’t see themselves as Europeans citizens. America isn’t giving you the strength that you are looking for my fellow British Europeans. They never will and all by yourself you are are just that. By yourself, alone.
The wait is for the first British hero who actually have the balls to tell the British citizens the truth is to find in reality. You know, that world that the States of America have left off decades ago.
100% !
Re the US that has always been the case.. their interests have never been aligned with the UK despite whatever the politicians say... Look to history to see where their loyalty lies...and as for brexit it could never work and is doomed to failure taking many ordinary people with it
I assume you are not a Dutch farmer?
Is this a joke?
How true the EUSSR
Nonsense. Firstly the UK voted to leave the EU. Like it or lump it. Any government attempting to reverse that via the backdoor of sector deals isn't going to last very long. Secondly most of the last two decades have been spent in the EU. Low growth throughout that whole period. Being in the EU is no solution to low growth. Especially since we have higher growth than Germany post brexit. We now export more to the EU than before we left too. Energy security is certainly an issue and one frankly we could easily fix. We are surrounded by wind and waves and a ton of fossil fuels, if it got desperate. As for investment well as I type this, BMW have just announced more investment. Tata are building a battery factory et al. I don't see a crumbling country. Im sorry you have so little faith in your fellow countrymen Andrew. Labour if they form the next government, its a big if too will find talking the talk is alot easier than walking the walk.
And the sad frustrating reality, is that we can't even jump ship and live in the EU where life seems to be better!
@@emucat10.3% recession in Germany. Hardly a big deal.
Germany is all about industry , industry is all about cheap reliable power . We barely have any industry left that we had before we joined the Eu so all the power we have to generate is for mostly domestic consumers . Germany has used all its stocks of energy up leaving almost nothing but renewables. They are trying to speed up a few decommissioned coal fired power stations in time for winter but it is not looking good . Who gets the power ? Domestic or industry because they can’t supply both .
@@pincermovement72 Did you ever hear about the several German LNG terminals that came fully operational within 12 months of Ukraine war being started by Mad Vlad?
I suggest you inform yourself.
I have yet to read/watch about your horror scenario in the German media. In Germany, there's enough power for both industry and private households.
@@emucat1 Food prices back to pre war. Never any shortages, not one single day.
Yesterday in the supermarket: 1 kg of tomatoes 1.29€ (non- organic). 1 litre of full fat milk 1.29€, local produce, non-local at 0.99€.
1 litre of sunflower seed oil: 1.89€.
Monthly ticket for public transport: 49€.
Fuel pretty similar to other neighbouring countries. I drive an E-Merc which I charge at home, we've had our own PV since more than a decade, so I really have no clue about the precise present costs of heating, power and recharging the car's batteries. All supplied via our PV, panels cover the entire roof, we're feeding the surplus into the local grid.
Poorer families get power bills partly subsidized.
Germany has longterm mortgage contracts, something like 20 - 30 years, so yes some increases due to inflation, but nothing like in the UK.
@@EllieD.Violet Communitarianism/communism is the aim hence WEF 'own nothing & be happy'.
Understand this and EVERYTHING you see makes sense.
But anyway, the EU is a dying enterprise with waning authority even inside its own borders. It's only a matter of time before Italian, French or even German voters pull the plug. The more it doubles down on utterly insane Net Zero policies, the more hated it will become.
Where Brexit comes into its own is when the wheels finally fall off the Net Zero bandwagon. Sooner or later some grown up decisions will have to be made and we'll be able to make them without going cap in hand to Brussels to ask permission. I think things have got to get a whole lot worse before the penny drops, but Britain will be the more agile economy and the benefits of independent energy policy will be quite obvious.
Britain is certainly better off outside the EU's carbon border tax regime when it comes to infrastructure renewal.
The next general election will be a stay at home election, where Labour will have to work hard to lose it. But either way, whoever wins will be a lame duck government in a matter of weeks, riddled with internal conflict and widely despised by the public. I'll be surprised if it even clings on for a full parliamentary term without having to go back to the country.
The problem is that neither party is prepared to offer voters anything they actually want. The culture gulf between the people and their politicians is too wide. It can only deliver an unspoken constitutional crisis, for which there is no relief mechanism. Parliamentary "democracy" and the social contract can only deteriorate further.
Arresting the decline seems unlikely unless an outsider can break through, with some sort of vision and a sense of purpose, and I don't see that entity on the horizon.
It's only when the basics cease to function and we can't even keep the lights on that the people of Britain will stir.
It's going to take more poll tax riots and a withdrawal of consent.
Blade Runners ripping down ULEZ cameras is a welcome beginning, but it's going to take all-out defiance.
Brexit will come good in time.
When we have a government willing and able to make laws in the public interest, on the side of the people, Brexit is worth having.
But we are a long way away from that. Simply leaving the EU was never going to be enough. After all, EU membership was merely a symptom of our political malaise. Leaving was just a prerequisite to revitalising our democracy.
Remainers now think we can return to the EU fold incrementally, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
French protectionism will see to it that we never rejoin the single market or get an SPS deal.
For now, though, Britain languishes in a Brexit limbo, awaiting the democratic correction that's been building for decades. One that will not tolerate the shackles imposed on it by the politics of the twentieth century. The rejoiners can have their middle class AstroTurf marches and wave their little flags, but they'll be drowned by the tsunami of change when the British people put their foot down.
Have a little faith my friends. We are going to win... Eventually.
In the 70’s the wealthiest paid around 75%tax,now it’s less than 20%,if they pay anything at all. So we get a pound shop state and declining services. It’s funny how people demand low taxes and then become irate when they can’t get an ambulance
You can't get an ambulance importing 600,000 low skilled people a year paying minimal tax and then have the rest of us paying top up benefits to them. That's a great idea and it's what we've had since Blair. Period.
Made up? Check your facts. Income tax during 1970’s was 83% on top earners.Thatcher reduced it to 60% in 1980. And it’s been further reduced by Conservatives. The current rate is now 40%
Corporation Tax is the key , if a company makes its profits here then it should pay its taxes here , we should invent a turnover tax so the likes of Apple , Google, Facebook , Twitter , Pfizer etc don’t use economies like Ireland to domicile their profits .
Competing for companies to do their business here via tax breaks doesn't actually benefit us because we still have to accept low wages and we can't invest in infrastructure (literally crumbling schools and hospitals) because the tax revenue is too low. The only people who benefit are those already at the top.
Well the choice is limited taxation contribution or none at all, along with the jobs they bring or none at all. The issue is how they can play one off against the other. President Biden's plan for uniform corporation tax has merit. Then the companies can choose by the relevant merit of that country instead of a race to the bottom
Nothing to do with Brexit. Unfortunately the Government hasn't used the freedoms that Brexit afforded us enough. At least we've been able to negotiate a couple of new trade deals. Hopefully more to follow.....
It's very simple. Investors are going to the EU because of the big single market. The UK can't compete. If you can't beat them, rejoin them.
Great analysis - I can’t keep an eye on politics as much as I’d want/like to (or as much as I can understand stuff) but it’s great that you do it instead so I can at least keep abreast of the key issues.
I simply cannot understand why or how the UK voted for Brexit.......leaving the fold was economically extremely risky......
Inherent exceptionalism and entitleism from those that voted out. Remember the narratives before the vote which were akin to 'EU needs us more than we need them' etc.
The problem with labour under Kier is they're so worried about what the right thinks of them they've forgotten to actually come up with any new or effective policies - all I've heard is a commitment to more of the same.
They've been receiving lots of donations from private individuals and companies. That's why they won't talk anymore about taxing the very rich and corporations. They have sold out essentially.
Or maybe they saw the total pigs ear that Jezza made and think that the most important thing is not to antagonize middle of the road voters, not miss an open goal against a shite tory government, win power and then set about reforming
@@matyoukee799indeed. Ed milliband ate a bacon sandwich wrongly and they went for him. Obviously starmer is playing it smart
@@matyoukee799Whats worse than a shite Tory government, a Labour government that cant spend other peoples money.
@@matyoukee799 Corbyn didn't make a mess of it - the media had their knives out for him precisely because he would have instigated a wealth tax, he would have changed things significantly and upset the applecart. He was just honest up front - unlike Keir, the man with not a single opinion!
Go find Nigel Farage and throw his ass in jail, he pushed hard for this
Ah yes, because Britain was doing so well before Brexit.
I’m 65 and on holiday in Paris:
One forgets after many visits, what a great city Paris is.
Everyone’s busy, I would love to live in Paris , I retire soon but! Brexit leaves me up the creek without a paddle.😵💫
Didn’t look great a few weeks ago , have they cleared all the burnt out cars yet ?
@@pincermovement72 We could have said that about the Brixton riots, but that's past as is the riots in Paris.
How long before the next Algerian and Moroccan Uprising !!!
@@pincermovement72 all sorted! At least the French have the brass monkeys to stand up against tyranny
What about the bed bugs?
Before you tax the rich you'll need to stop tax avoidance/evasion loopholes and non-dom status otherwise the rich will just avoid paying them anyway they can as they have been doing for decades.
The platform big tech giants like Amazon undercut the high street, take money and wealth out of the community and the country and pay zero tax. Meanwhile the govt print more money meaning what we earn is no longer enough to live on, and we are now in a food bank economy.
You are one of the best political commentators Andrew. Consider this. "Let all the poison that lurks in the mud, hatch out." I Claudius.
He's not. Really he is not. He is part of the problem, though.
The thing that is absurd re Brexit is prior to that the U.K and London in particular was setting itself up to the financial epicenter of the world.
Why Cameron risked that and other benefits is beyond me.
We were the only country with certain allowances and he still put that to a vote. 🤦🏿♂️
8:00 '' In EU and have vote ''-------------------Voting with Croatia, Slovenia, Estonia .Latvia, Letonia, Denmark , Czechoslovakia Romania ,Bulgaria ,Italy ALL faithful allies of Germany in the first EU ( 1940-45).
We as a nation lapped up tonnes of QE free cash during the pandemic and now were all screaming for higher wages due to inflation.
You couldn't make it up.
I worked throughout the pandemic so received F all. Why should I suffer?
U.K. already a rule taker - but at least it’s population is satisfied.
Asked a colleague today « you have your passport in Oder » he replied « now I have a British passport »- I told him « your passport was always British - difference is now you need to queue and get stamped and have restrictions on your travels »
You should also tell him that his British passport is made in Poland, by a French-Dutch company. How Eu-ish do you want it? 😁
Things that didn’t happen today
Under EU rule we lost our standing. But we'll get it back, don't be scared.
The kind of government we need is the Nordic model, don't hold your breath though'
So tired of hearing how hard it is to tax wealth..."we ALLOW you to make wealth using OUR population, now you are going to pay for that PRIVELEGE", period.
The EU will not re open the TCA. Why would they?
The EU will not grant privileged market access on those terms, because doing so would undermine its own industries.
@@thetruth9210Should've done so in the last 3.5 years, innit?
Why haven't you?
@@thetruth9210and UK will not part of that, it is bit player looking backwards always with a dying economy with the rest of the world looking on in shock at it stupidity.
@@thetruth9210 Reduce the EU's influence? Like you did with the UK CA standard? Or by reintroducing imperial measurements? Man, I'm always struck by the overinflated sense of self-importance people like you maintain.
@@thetruth9210 Exactly: who cares about UK CA if CE is much more important? Thanks for proving my point.
Most of the new UK trade deals are roll overs from existing FTA the EU has done. Roll overs with worse conditions for the UK, e.g. the one with Japan. Your FTA with Australia heavily favors Australia, not the UK. And CPTPP might add 0.08% to the GDP in the long term (10 years) while leaving the EU has led to a GDP decrease of 4%. Oh yes, go out and trade with the world. Something the EU does already.
I'd be asking why do supposedly professional journalists continually fall for these distraction tactics and concentrate on broadcasting this trivia, whilst letting politicians get away with lying and corruption on a scale most African dictators would aspire to?
No growth with the tories? Who would have thought this besides everyone else?
To be fair, there was a lot of economic growth under Thatcher, when she was selling off the family jewels, but most of that growth occurred in only one location, the City of London, and the financial centre in particular. The rest of the country experienced high unemployment and recession, but overall economic growth was quite good. Of course it was accompanied by boom and bust in the stock markets, but, as ever, the wealthy thrived. Unfortunately, once she had started to run out of national assets to sell, economic growth started to decline, because even one fabulously wealthy city does not generate enough income to overcome the decline in the rest of the country.
I’ve never particularly agreed with Andrews point of view but I just about agreed with all his points. Very informative video, well done !
Wait, but the UK cant invest exactly as much as the USA or EU, "8 times larger" , is this accounting for scale of said economics versus the UK? I agree the UK should step up, but there are limits, like borrowing and budget, etc
*IF YOU VOTED TORY* you voted for this - I hope you enjoy it...!
*IF YOU VOTED BREXIT* you voted for this - I hope you enjoy it...!
Brexit can work, surley you are not that nieve to think the EU NOT Europe were going to just let us leave....it could of worked if people were behind it....
@@chrisdechristophegammon.
We're better off than when we were in the EU 😅
Never voted Tory but voted Brexit , so happy on both counts .
@@pincermovement72 - well if you enjoy living in a country that is getting poorer by the year then fair enough.
and if you still worked for the bbc non of this wouldnt have been said by you !Andrew you dont need stupid cheap camera flicking gimicks of the front / back side shots every 12 seconds your programme is class ,sack the gimmick wolla hes surplus