I've said it before and I'll say it again: they should just print UB cards concurrently with their in-universe reskins. I think UB is neat and they've done a great job with it so far, but it's also legit to dislike the tonal dissonance that comes with mechanically unique Spongebob cards or to be worried about when/how/if those cards will be able to be reprinted. Printing both at once solves both problems, plus wizards gets to keep making ungodly amounts of money. They already print 6 goddam versions of every card in a set these days, it shouldn't be that hard for them to print Cannon and UB at the same time
Mark Rosewater has stated before that Universe Beyond sets won't have any Universe Within cards, only Secret Lairs and "Booster Fun" crossovers are allowed to if they're Eternal legal.
There is no in universe printing of UB (non Secret Lair) products. And there never will be. Splitting sales would make UB less profitable, and would mean, in the worst case, they lose money on the IP. You do not want to know how much Hasbro paid for LotR.
UB is the new Cannon. Some BS about Nicol Bolas manipulating the multiverse to bring in completely random crap. 😑 I guess I'm down to just Pre-Modern if I even keep playing at all.
As someone that plays and collects since 2000, I never found another MTG story to be as immersive as the Weatherlight saga or sets like Odyssey (Novels were a thing then, a good thing...). Man, how I liked some of the characters... Tsabo, Gerrard, Seton, Kamahl, Urza, Ertai, Belbe, Yawgmoth, Sissay - It was an exciting, immersive fantasy setting that could offer the best strategic framework for a card game - ever! However these days it seems to be just that, a strategic gameplay framework where you can put anyhting in. Mechanics are for rent and the story went bankrupt. Apart from the cool Ixalan set, a lot of them seem like some hearthstone style gimmick. (Streets of new cappena - mean streets of Gadgetzan (almost the same set symbol), Murder at Karlov Manor - Murder at Castle Nathria (lol!), Showdown in the Badlands - Outlaws of thunder junction etc). It's "MTG meets the".... yeah, I dislike that. I dislike it a lot. Came to magic to meet magic. Stuff like that is cheap tricks in comparison. I get it, everything in MTG is inspired by something else, from folk tales to complex mythologies. I'm fine with inspiration, less fine the harder design leans in on it, and fully disinterested when there is no line between that which inspires and that which shows up on the card. If someone enjoys it and engages with it...power to them, I love them for it. Doesn't have to be me. Won't be me.
In my opinion Neon Dynasty is how you do a "genre shift" nicely, at least in terms of art direction. Technology has a "indistinguishable from magic" aesthetic. Making a glow on the edge of a blade invoke more of a flaming sword rather than a lightsaber. I also like how many of the mechs look like they were folded like origami even if they didn't keep that design for all of them, maybe the folded paper aesthetic should have been in the armor and robots as well. ...all this is opposed to New Cappena with uninspired "guns but it's vials of magic as magazines" when they somehow made mages using fingerguns so cool looking. A lot of clothing just looks like something you could see someone wearing in our world. The Riveteers are the worst offender with most just wearing suspenders and a white collared shirt. The Brokers and some of the Maestros have suits with bits of armor glued on, I wish they instead did it the other way around with plate/studded/chain armor made to look like a suit. Only some Cabaretti get close to the level of ostentatiousness I want from a magical organization that prides itself on it, maybe put in more of a druidic plant clothing or royal archwizard look to them. The Obscura need more visual identity, make their magic the most art deco.
For me, this same reasoning is why Universes Beyond cards don't bother me. People talk about it destroying the sanctity of Magic's world, but I feel like that happened years before UB and I'm still here playing anyway. Because as much of a fan as I used to be of the story and world, the mechanics are what really keep me coming back.
Universes Beyond could work as an independent format with probably a restricted list over a banned list (For now, because I can't think about something like One Ring or Orcish Bowmasters being so strong that need to get banned)
I like Universes Beyond by itself, and don't mind it taking over tiny parts of eternal formats, but I LOVE this idea far more than allowing them into all eternal formats. Commander legal, and a UB format would be perfect.
@@DerekScottBland I can see your point. However, unless something big chances with both franchises, it could end up mostly being people who were already buying MtG buying it because its more MtG. Star Wars especially though isn't doing well as a franchise. It's been five years since the last movie in theatres, and the last decade of material related to it, barring the first two seasons of the Mandalorian, have been either divisive or of generally low quality depending on who you ask.
@@pirakalord55 - let's be honest, "divisive" is merely a different way of saying that sexists and racists who thought the Star Wars universe belonged to them found out that it didn't.
I wouldn't really mind Universes Beyond if Wizards worked more on their own IP, The Pirexian invasion was handled really poorly imo, I want to see some of the care they put in LOTR in an actual magic set, I want a great story in universe, because it was magic what first got me into magic, don't neglect your own story in your quest for carboard fornite
It's amazing that WotC puts out consistently shite products lore-wise in their own IP, but then they do Warhammer 40k and Doctor Who and goddamn NAIL IT.
The thing is, WotC isnt creating new lore for these crossovers. Theyre building products based off already popular IPs with stories that have been popular for decades. Thats infinitely easier than developing a new unpriven story at the same relative time that youre making a set based off that story.
The difference is LOTR was written 70 years ago by a guy who cared and put his entire life into it. They didn’t have to do anything to the story. Magic didn’t start with a story and now they only vaguely attach a story to it while trying to keep it within the abilities they chose to use and playtesting.
@@ASaturnalia - but people still have to work to make sure lore is represented properly. If they took a fraction of the attention they paid to making sure the Doctor Who, Warhammer and LotR sets were faithful to the lore and applied that to their own work and making better lore, there would be a drastic improvement. But we've seen that the players really didn't give a shit about the story. For the most part they just want new cards for their decks.
@@DerekScottBland You make it sound like creative is TRYING to make a lackluster story, or that a higher budget would help. No matter how hard they work or how much money they dump into it, it is IMPOSSIBLE to know how an audience of millions will perceive a brand new story. The resources being used to design sets based on established canon from outside IPs have nothing to do with those used for creating new worlds and stories to build MTG sets around. UB is probably the area of Magic where Creative has a lower amount of resources alloted than usual.
My main concern is reprints. How are they handle the license expiring. Will univers within card basicly be reserve list cards in 5 years if they can't renew there contract.
Yes, because Wizards has demonstrated that they aren't smart enough to put any language in contracts that allow them to even use the name of the old card as a sub-name on a reprint. This means that the best you can hope for is a reprint with a new name / artwork like they did with the Stranger Things cards.
So it's tricky as it depends on the card. I believe Games Workshop owns the trademark to things like Astartes and Tyrranid for the creature types of cards from that set, which will make releasing the cards under another name harder, since the creature types won't line up. But for Lord of the Rings, the Tolkien estate doesn't own a trademark on elves, dwarves, wizards, or halflings, so renaming the cards is a non issue. I think that they're probably in the clear for a lot of the upcoming crossover sets too (maybe this is an issue they noticed after Warhammer) since there shouldn't be too many creatures from Final Fantasy, Fallout, or Assassin's Creed with unusual creature types, and the ones currently I can think of that might cause an issue also have some loopholes they can use. Like making Fran typed as a rabbit so they don't have to make viera a creature type, and Kimhari as a beast or cat so they don't have do make ronso a type. The issue will come from them saying already that the big set release cards are just too many cards to rename and reskin in another full set, so I can see them maybe only doing this for cards that they determine are worth reprinting.
I am hoping for bigger universes within sets. I guess we'll get universes beyond train for the next 5 years and than start doing universes within masters sets to get all the magic boomers like me back in that they loose in the process of making money and bringing people in with universe beyond. The card I want the most as a magic card would be out of the tombs. Super fun not op design, that brings stuff from your graveyard and mills your self.... Love that card... N but laser shooting skellies even if I like warhammer.... I don't want that in my reanimating magical trees and forest monster decks since I go for artwork and an artwork theme in my decks.... Plus having hulk or captain America played in the most powerful formats in magic just feels silly and makes me lose interest in them. Maybe that's wizards evil nonspoken plan to bring people back to standard. Since hopefully captain America won't be legal there. I guess there will be a community rising playing commander only with magic IP cards... But that will take time seeing gimli hold miolnir commanding the Ironman powers quad against pickle Rick's evil storm and metal deck.... Universes beyond cool card designs, but 🤮
To your point, Hasbro's earnings report highlights "Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming Segment operating profit declined 2% and operating profit margin of 36.1% due to higher royalty costs associated with Universes Beyond." That means even the huge sales numbers weren't enough to cover licensing. I hope that at least scares them out of UB premier sets.
@@brianmattei7134Oh please god let this happen because at least then it might force wizards to stop making UB the main focus of the game. Like once per year I’m fine with (not really but it’s tolerable) but this bullshit of spamming UB stuff as every other product is beyond infuriating.
@@Greg501-Because the ecosystem it creates is unhealthy regardless of whether or not it draws money out of your pocket? At minimum, I suspect this current world order is to blame for Magic's seemingly increasing problem with every product having at least one broken expensive chase card and printing errors becoming more common - when you're dumping out tons of new product, you don't have the same amount of time to devote to quality control.
@@Greg501- "just ignore the format warping cards with minimal testing and deal with the emergency bans that come about because Hasbro doesn't have all the monies."
I returned to Magic after not playing it since Lorwyn came out, mostly because I was burned out and sometimes hated the mana system. Getting mana screwed or mana flooded is probably the single most frustrating thing that can happen in a game. After playing Hearthstone and some other games where the resource is automatically given and then coming back, I have completely changed my perspective... The mana system is so good. Sometimes it fucks you up, but it adds so much more depth to decision-making while playing a game; deckbuilding is not the only thing that it touches. I've learned to love it.
Magic in a few years: "I will flash in Fluttershy to block your Sauron and then activate my Halo Ring at instant speed, destoying your army of Mary Sues.
What’s funny is that this was always part of the appeal of Magic from day 1, when your Holy Giant Firebreathing Drudge Skeletons would be in the middle of jumping at your enemy and suddenly decide to go be a farmer and send you a tribute of food instead Admittedly none of those situations were effectively ads for other things stuck in the middle of my card game
I just wish they had kept Universes Beyond as its own thing, like old Un- sets used to be. I finally picked up one of the Warhammer 40k sets after getting introduced to the setting, originally intending to use the deck as the basis for another Commander deck. But I found that the part of me that plays Magic for its own settings and "vibes" (for lack of a better word), I didn't actually *like* mixing the UB cards with "actual" Magic cards. The borders are different, and they just don't *feel* the same. I'm not sure I'll get as much enjoyment out of the Final Fantasy set (the one UB product I'm actually looking forward to as a lifelong fan) as I thought I would But I'm pretty much a Vorthos-minded player, so UB was never going to an easy sell for me. I do agree with you that this strategy on their part isn't going to work longterm (I honestly think Marvel's the only property with any potential at all to rival LotR, and even that's pretty shaky), so I'd imagine in 5 or so years time we'll see them back off on UB, sticking to smaller, Commander-focused releases for properties that don't cost nearly as much to license. And, eventually, they'll run out of properties, and go back to focusing on their own
ya. but saying the borders are "different" is a problem makes no sense when magic cards have had countless different borders. weird complaint but you do you.
dude I wasn't writing a fucking dissertation up there, I was talking about my emotional response to something off the cuff picking apart the language of it just makes you look like a fucking dick
@@nosrin1988me just playing the normal current card border and some borderless cards. Not a big fan of that Google of frames we get every set either. And somehow for me the universes beyond border does stick out aswell next to normal magic bordered cards... I do like, kind of that they made this distinction, but I kinda don't like it aswell... Since even cards that would fit in my magical forest artwork wise just don't because of that border..
While the one of one ring was a scummy business tactic it certainly brought attention to the set and contributed to the product. I don't see that happening with other intellectual properties
"iTs NoT fOr YoU!" I hear that so much from people who don't really play Magic outside of kitchen table. And thats fine. But when kitchen table sets get into Modern, I'm done.
@@refundreplayI don’t play kitchen table and I really really don’t care about UB. Cards are cards. Be upset if they are broken just like we always have been. If they made a card called idk, Oko’s crown, a 4 generic artifact that gave you protection from everything the turn you cast it and that you tapped to add an experience counter on it and draw cards equal to the amount of experience counters on it, and in your upkeep you took damage equal to that number as well. Would you be as upset? Or is the issue that you don’t like the art that plays no difference anywhere outside of Un-sets
@@ASaturnalia I'm sick of seeing Unsets in competitive Magic. I'm tired of seeing Anime art on Magic. I'm really sick of the awful flavor dilution of Fantasy meets power armor, Assassin's Creed. You can enjoy it all you want. Don't take it personally that I hate that trash. Its more cards for you when I stop giving my money to Hasbro. Maybe not you the individual, but you as a general, the public. Some people get really mad that I don't like Magic slowly becoming Weiẞ Schwarz.
While I concur with that being indicative of the well of creativity nearing its endpoint there's a question to be asked here: what IP/product goes on for 3 decades without reaching this point? WOTC cannot singlehandedly advance the literary canon, they supposedly can't dabble in non-fantasy genres without gutting the game's aesthetic integrity and they have profit threshholds to meet. You can't just keep piling on restriction upon restriction upon restriction and expect their creative spirit to persevere in perpetuity, there is a practical ceiling.
@@penguindrummer252No one said that they had to only due fantasy just that lazily throwing pre existing IPs into the game because you are creatively bankrupt then spamming said IPs is infuriating. They should take a page from Konami and instead use the IPs to inspire new sets and stories instead that feel like magic the gathering.
@thesuddendemise7735 The main story sets are exactly that, other IPs but Magic. Its sad, there truely is no magic left. Modern Horizons and the Remastered sets are by far the best things to come out in the last few years.
It won’t be long before UB is standard legal. They already announced that assassins creed will be legal for “60-card formats”. If not that than marvel will be. Expect a LOT of marvel products. LotR will look like a splash release compared to marvel
Considering how much money Wizards shelled out to make LotR happen, they're almost certainly taking an even bigger gamble with Marvel. Shoehorning a Marvel set into Standard would force Arena-only players and FNM regulars to care about it, but will that be enough to cover the behemoth licensing costs? Bear in mind, Marvel already has its own competing card game in Snap, so their asking price ought to be higher than you think.
I bought into Warhammer Commander out of FOMO, but in the aftermath of it, I regretted it, because the cards were extremely available on the secondary market for cheap. And so, I had no such fear about LotR or Dr. Who, didn't buy into either of them, on account of their excessive cost, and the cards are overwhelmingly extremely available for cheap.
honestly there could be a lot of fun and unique card designs going from fantasy book series to fantasy book series, maybe slightly less well known each time.
Honestly, UB bugs me a lot less when it's another fantasy property. Dr Who squeaks by with the "he's always ending up where he's not supposed to" excuse.
Sets are great but I rarely buy boxes of boosters anymore. Only the occasional loose pack to support my favorite LGS. The fiscal value is simply rarely there. The fun is.
The seal is already broken, we can't get rid of it now so all i can do is buy even less product. If it would have stayed secret lair stuff i wouldn't really care but i feel all the universe beyond stuff kind of kills the flavor of magic.
I've been speaking with my wallet since the Walking Dead. Not cause of the lair, but because of the video podcast shortly after where the main guy talked down to the legitimate concerns as if we were just whiny babies. WOTC hasn't really earned back my trust since.
I think you are spot on here. However, there is a risk that UB sell decently specifically because of their modern legality, if Modern Horizons 3 was balanced down due to power imbalance concerns, but the UB design team didn't get the memo, we could have Chris Cox asking why "we aren't making Marvel a mainstay, the sales numbers for Civil War are great".
I wish I could upvote this MORE! I imagine the Skeksis would have an Exploit theme, maybe let them partner with each other to get the cabal vibe from the movie.
Me personally, I cringe at every UB but then for every Walking Dead or Stranger Things there’s a LotR, Dr Who or 40k. I find I love some of the cards in hindsight and I get less angry over time. I do hate the different border treatment though and it makes it look like a different game. My OCD can’t let this part go.
The borders are hideous. They look like those custom card maker websites. The D&D sets were done with normal borders, why can't the rest of it be like that?
we've already had 3 different borders on normal cards though. Not counting showcase and other special treatments. Do people just refuse to use old bordered cards or etc? I feel like the different borders are a good idea and the least of the issues.
I think most people would wish for there to be an untainted MTG without any other IPs and also the one we have now, because both are good/cool/fun, but sadly we can only have one of them...
eventually theyll make a format call it "classic" or something where only sets that were "standard" legal are included. thatll let them milk old players a little bit
These are honestly some of my more favorite videos you do: introspection on the hobby and even keeled response. I think you're bang on when it comes to what we can sort of expect from universes beyond too - a bit of cloud chasing bloat followed by a retraction when they realize not all fandoms have 200mil+ plus in them. That or there's going to be a lot more 001/001 prints in our future!
we don't need "even keeled" from him right now we need "reprint fetchlands you cowards" i don't understand how you go from that to being fine with a second reserved list that adds hundreds of new cards every year
With the idea that Hasbro only cares about what will make them money, I have wondered why they haven't taken steps to do away with the reserve list. I wish that they would. The idea that I need to spend $700+ to get a land that my deck needs to play at it's best is absurd. They could even protect the current collectors with a trade-in system. You could send in your OG duals or your Cradle for a special art foil version that they agree to not print again. That would give them freedom to reprint them with a standard art without ruining the "collectible value" of the old cards. It would probably even raise the value of the original prints as well because you know there are people that wouldn't trade them in for the new one.
LOTR is the literal inspiration for modern fantasy. So of course it sold so well. It could easily be a plane within the Magic Universe. These other IP’s, other than maybe Final Fantasy, don’t feel like they could be a part of the Magic Universe.
I see this as Core Sets with a trade-off in the sense that Core Sets were unexciting, but reprints were important. Now we might get a few exciting stand-alone sets, but the need for reprints is worrying with external IPs. I'd be a lot more excited if they stuck with WotC IPs for that reason, but UB by itself is fine if they can find a way around it. Edit: ok the 12 Rick deck sounds horrifying, and I want to see that happen.
I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about Universes Beyond. I think I'd rather it hadn't been introduced to begin with, but now that it's here, it's far from the worst thing going on with MTG and WotC at the moment. I've bought a few UB cards for commander decks (e.g Keeper of Secrets from Warhammer, Time Beetle from Doctor Who), but mostly creatures and spells that feel like they could just as easily fit into MTG canon. I'm not quite ready to put major characters like Frodo or the Tenth Doctor into any of my decks just yet, but maybe I'll get there eventually (and I'd have absolutely no problem playing against other people who do use such cards).
Honestly, I have been saying for about a year that by 2030 we'd have a Runeterra set (the League of Legends universe), and these news only makes me think it will come faster.
The 'is mana good' battle is even funnier after you totally changed how mana works with Party Box. Love party box by the way - it shot life into pretty much all the cards we haven't played in our collection as an accessable 'formatish of sorts
They added the extra standard set release only a few years ago with midnight hunt/crimson vow, so that extra release window hasn’t even existed that long, so having it be a Beyond release instead isn’t that big of deal to me. That means there will be more time between standard releases to give it a bit more attention.
I can live with Universes Beyond to some degree, I kind of just wish it wasn't coming at the expense of Magic IP as they have now announced. This was a fear some people had from the start of Universes Beyond and now it's here.
I think the biggest concern I have is that it shows even clearer what you stated and what we all know: Hasbro does not know how or why these products work. They are going to blindly throw resources at outside IPs hoping to get some quick cash. Meawhile, thought the Magic IP will certainly not die, as you stated no one really cares about Kellan. The current story, the standard enviroment, the community engagement, it's just not very strong. Devoting resources to fleshing these things out would help strenghten the game much more than whatever growth Universes Beyond is going to bring once they get past the 5 biggest outside IPs.
The one thing about Fallout I do not understand fully is that Bethesda already has a Fantasy setting IP in The Elder Scrolls. Why did they opt to Fallout which is a Sci-Fi rather than Elder Scrolls?
The other really easy thing to miss with great fun exciting products like dr who and lord of the rings is they let the design team work overtime to make fun thematic experiences for players. I'm glad dr who was dr who skinned but what made that product really shine was how much fun it was to play together and how well all the themes were represented. They could do that in *any* product it's just that design considerations usually get in the way. With universes beyond it feels like designers are allowed to do EVERYTHING while with other products they're constantly being asked how much they can cut back and still sell to players.
My issue is fairly simple... I don't want to play Weiß Schwarz. I want to play Magic: The Gathering. For those that don't know: Weiß Schwarz, to put it simply, is THE CROSSOVER GAME™. Mechanically, they're different, but I mention this game because it has no inherent story. It is literally just "Wouldn't it be cool if X could fight Y?". That seems to be the direction the game is taking. I don't have a problem with all these other IPs getting their chocolate in MTG's metaphorical peanut butter. I have a problem with the MTG lore becoming an afterthought just so we can have Sauron fighting Thanos or whatever. Let's be honest, the stories for both Wilds of Eldraine and Lost Caverns of Ixalan were pretty scant and boring, and while Karlov Manor was better... it still had a ton of plot convenience and nonsense to actually tell the story, and was very groan inducing in parts. Point being, the more this goes on, the more likely that MTG's lore will get even worse as their focus turns more and more towards these crossovers. I personally hate that and hope it isn't the case... and it frustrates me to consider that I'm probably in the minority.
You know, if WOTC just plan announced "WE'RE RELEASING LESS PRODUCT THIS YEAR THAN BEFORE" i would pop off so happy. the unending spoiler season and new changes is too exhausting. mentally but especially finically I've had to quit magic because the competitive side was what was most fun to me and i simply could not afford to compete anymore. too many new broken cards to always buy to keep up with the meta.
They should just collaborate with nature channels like Nat Geo or Animal Planet for a change. Some of the most evocative cards are based on real life creatures and phenomena. It could be an interesting take on the MtG setting while staying consistent with its aesthetics. Who'd say no to Mt. Vesuvius as Valakut or a Shark Week Shark Typhoon?
I tried getting back into magic but I just can't anymore. There's so little of what I loved left. I think the fact that you've been gradually introduced to all this shit is why you accept it.
On one hand I hate the UB stuff that doesn't fit MTG, on the other hand Murders at Karlov Manor, Thunder Junction, the modern horror manor of duskmourne, and the interplanar racetrack of "tennis" all feel like a fever-dream magic nightmare consuming the soul of the game so I guess good ol' fantasy MTG is just a one set a year kinda thing now anyways. At least Bloomburrow and "Ultimate" return to Tarkir sounds great. Also i think Final Fantasy -mostly- fits MTG quite well. I just hope they don't exclude Tactics since it's basically the best one ever despite not being a numbered entry.
@@PleasantKenobi Yes actually to both. As a recurring thing throughout the planes is that different planes are on different tech levels, in fact different continents on the same plane are at different stages of tech. This is even made more evident from the plane of Equilor where Urza actually learns more sophisticated engineering from the residents there. And the Equilor civilization itself was sunsetting as they been around longer than even the Thran who themselves were a highly advanced civilization. A recurring theme is every culture starts off primitive, then improves along the way, until it eventually reaches its apex, then later fades away. And the best part was that aside from planeswalkers, this tech is largely independent from each other. In fact for MTG, different cultures are at different stages when it comes to firearms technology. Like you have Thunder Junction and New Capenna using a more futuristic energy pistols and rifles. While on Tarkir they are more using the equivalent of fire lances from the 900s to 1200s. While on Caliman of Dominaria, they are using matchlocks that are akin to the 1400s. Then you have Innistrad where they use flintlocks which is tech from the 1600s. On Ixalan, as according to the pirate Breeches, they are still tinkering with firearms and currently only have an experimental version of a handheld one.
I misread 'drops one MTG set a year' as 'there will be only one MTG set a year'. I guess Gen-Z skunked that word. Well, it's Secret Lair that really got the new meaning into my head.
Definitely. I’d vote for Bowmasters as the most impactful in Legacy and Lorien as the most impactful in Vintage. Both of those cards have radically changed what decks look like in their respective formats.
Yeah the landcyclers are a big reason why Living End is tier 1 to begin with. I'm still baffled people are ok with The One Ring, an extra turn card that ancestral recalls twice. 😂 And Bowmasters is yet another stupid design that keeps all 1 thoughness creatures out of the format. So even if it's "just" 2-3 cards, it's not the amount of problematic cards that matter, it's how much that one card warps the game / pushes out how many decks and how many decks have to adopt these bs LOTR cards.
@@luisochoa576 I decided for myself that I will never play LotR in my modern decks and still keeping that promise. Even though some things like Lorien Revealed are fairly easy to find (unlike bow-boy and the ring) and those cards definetely make my decks better. I am not gonna change the meta at my lgs but at least I am trying :)
I love cross overs. I just prefer it to stick mostly to Commander though. It would also be nice to see a Pioneer Masters, but print cards that are intended to only be legal in Pioneer and reprint some good old Modern cards that aren’t playable in Modern anymore, like Tarmogyf and Dark Confidant. Pioneer would also be a great place for universes beyond to make new cards in a less broken format, by keeping them only legal there. I also would love to see more skins of old cards with the crossover art. Just over all keep down the power keep is all I care about. Also I hope to see the Affinity Stones as one of Soul Rings for each stone, with the Gauntlet being a one of Lightning Greaves.
PK, I want to vote with my wallet but I don't know how I could do that while expressing what I want from the game. I'm mainly a competitive player and WotC have been putting competitive play on the backburner for years at this point. I want nationals back, I want at least the illusion of pro play to exist, I want certified judges, travelling, etc. How could I use my wallet to impact this? I am genuinely looking for ideas.
every time I hear about a new set or theme coming, there's another 3 coming quickly after. I just did a prerelease for Eldraine, pretty recently, and now there's 2 main sets after with Ixalan and Ravnica, and now there's more coming, with a new batch of Horizons stuff and Commander decks and Bloomburrow and whatever else is set to release?? I can't keep up
No specific to this video but: My take on Secret Lair is that WoTC had a few SL sets that did really well so they went in hard on it but then it they ended up with a bunch of left of SL that no one wanted which is going to hurt a lot and no company wants to admit their "special" release product didn't do well. The change now allows them to sell just a much tighter margin to true demand and they don't have to admit their special product isn't popular.
That's a funny assumption you are making. I think the people who truly hate UB are probably boycotting the products. It just doesn't matter because the biggest chunk of the demand isn't magic players, it's people from other communities who eat it up because they love Spider-Man and Final Fantasy. So you can't really speak with your wallet on something like this. There are too many other people throwing their wallets at WotC.
From the very beginning, when those fucking Walking Dead cards were revealed, I could tell that one day we would reach the point where all WotC does is churn out Universes Beyond shit. Maybe we haven't *quite* reached that point yet, but Magic the Gathering is slowly stopping being Magic the Gathering and instead becoming "hey look at this cool IP we managed to buy!"
I'm in the same boat as far as the 40k and Who decks. The 40k stuff was so well done and I also started watching Who because of the decks and now I'm a huge fan.
Called it the moment it started and folks were very aggro on me. It'll consistenly shift yoy until it's all or nearly all UB. Business never does half measures.
I should note. It is fine for folks to like it imo. Definitely not for me. Only thing I knew is that it was going to take off and be the primary focus withing a few years. (Not there yet, will be though)
It's sad how many people flipped on secret lairs the second an IP they like got one. This does make me excited for standard, though. Formats are great when WotC ignore them
The fans are the issue. When Kamigawa tanked financially, it was shelved for 20 years. If Universes beyond/secret lairs did terribly the first time, the experiment would already be over. People pay, so it's clear the fanbase want's a different game than I do and I've been done for several years now.
I don't like it because MTG has always had the great aspect of being able to take many different genres and settings, and tie them together with planes, and the mana system. We can have sentient robots, they're just mana powered constructs made using the magic of artifice. Same for flying motorbikes, and stargates. Universes Beyond breaks the lore of Magic in drastic ways that no retcon in Magic history has. Cybermen and Super Mutants could have lore friendly equivalents, but I'd rather have canon friendly planes that take inspiration from Dr Who and Fallout than actually have those IPs. Magic's direct story has never interested me, but I've always loved the world building. Ravnica as a place is so much more interesting than Jace as a character. Abandoning that worldbuilding for short term gains, massive licensing costs, and Marvel style mass appeal is a deal breaker for me. I feel like the better way to open up MTG for more people is to work on making sure the community, and product don't marginalize people. I've seen racism and sexism keeping people out of half a dozen local game stores in my area. There's also a massive onboarding problem. The brand new player experience for MTG is the worst of any major card game if you don't have a friend who is VERY good at onboarding people. I want the game be inclusive for everybody, rather than begging on its hands and knees with bribery for everyone to like it, without addressing the things keeping people out. "Buy our stuff! We have Street Figher! We have Dr Who! Please ignore the sexual harassment and racial slurs tossed around stores. Please!"
Please justify to me why angels and Demons are dressed like 1940s gangsters in an art deco reproduction of fantasy Manhattan. Please justify mechas in kamigawa and laser blades.
Because it’s Magic. Each Plane has it’s own rules and systems, and there’s supposed to be a near infinite number of them. The issue isn’t the themes or inspiration of other IPs to enter Magic, it’s that it’s no longer Magic. No one would have complained about this stuff if it did not override the original IP, but it has. It’s not a Plane clearly based on LOTR, it’s just LOTR. Even the Planes you mentioned, and others such as Amonkhet, are a step down from Dominaria, Lorwyn, Phyrexia, and Alara. The point is that Magic does not need these to be successful and it has tremendous potential due to its ability to synchronise the themes of a ton of different genres. The issue is that the people in charge of Magic do not care and are unwilling to put in the effort to keep Magic unique, or at least keep the UB stuff to fun/casual crossovers that aren’t necessary to care about if you want to seriously play Magic. Magic is more of a soulless cash grab, trying to use other IPs to drag people into a game they can’t even make function anymore. At a certain point it becomes impossible to take seriously or care about.
@@pascalsimioli6777 Because it's a plane in the MTG multiverse, and the magical aspects of the plane run using the 5 colour mana system. The only thing that's different to most planes is the clothing, and architecture, it still adheres to the rules of the fiction it inhabits, such as magic systems. What is beautiful about magic is that it can use swashbuckling pirates fighting dinosaurs, magitech bladerunner, mother goose fairy tales, and arabian nights inspired inventors fairs, while all feeling like the same fiction. Magic can take a concept from other media or genres, and ask "How would you make that in this setting?", then that's how they do it. Karn for example is a robot, but he's not simply a pile of wires with an AI, he's a construct powered by Mana, brought to life by Xantcha's heart. They had to justify why he exists, how he came to be, instead of just saying "There's a robot now". The mechas and laser blades in Kamigawa are powered via Mana, making them magitech. This is in contrast to something like a Sonic Screwdriver, which is purely technology. Things like Karn, The Weatherlight, Kamigawa Mechs, and The Planar Bridge have technological themes, but fit within the magic system of the fiction they inhabit. Media literacy isn't THAT hard.
First off, not mad at what you say; I love hearing your take on things! It really makes me think. Second off, a perspective: I currently have sold most of my collection, and before you stop reading, hear me out. When I heard Marvel would be a tent-pole release, it made me sad. I love Marvel! Been reading the comic since the 90s! Why was I sad? Upon introspection, it was because these IPs felt out of place. I've been playing Magic for... Honestly, I can't remember how long, and it's had its own flair. From Titanic Mechs to monkeys crewing race cars, it all still was Magic. That was the charm of it. When DnD came to the set, it felt natural because they were birthed from the same source. LotR felt... Okay to me, but I didn't personally buy it because it still felt... Out of place. Like when you're reading Harry Potter and all the sudden you get to the climax and Ash Ketchum tells Pikachu to thunderbolt Voldemort. Harry Potter does some crazy shenanigans too with animals doing crazy things and magic allowing whatever they can imagine. But then a person with a Pokemon coming in feels out of place because you've spent so long associating that memory with another franchise. It's not the same. Like when TMNT came to Batman. Or when Power Rangers came to Justice League. I read those. They were great for what they were: tongue and cheek joke sets meant to illicit some good times. But that was it. A flash in the pan. What WotC is doing is permanently altering the previous game. Imagine the Power Rangers were forever now a part of the Justice League. Would it feel the same? Not at all. It fundamentally changes the IP. And that's what gets me. It's no longer Magic. It doesn't feel like Magic. It's Super Smash Bros. Which I also love, but not when I want to play Magic. If I go to a friend's house and want to play Street Fighter and they're like, "But Ryu is in Smash Bros, let's play that!" See how that feels? Two different games. And that's why I sold my collection and kept a few decks. When people want to play Magic, I'll play Magic. And when people want to play Super Smash Bros, I'll grab a Fallout deck when they came out just for that occasion. But I'm not buying any more WotC sets like I used to. It's not the same game anymore.
The problem is ir they keep putting the premium cards un universes beyond, the market will move towards that product. Not for the IP, but for the power and value of the cards. For example the mana base of the doctor who commander decks and the commander decks of every set.
I am very happy I follow this channel, PK gives some good and well thought out arguments. He may be a little jarring at times but that is part of the appeal
I feel like looking at universes beyond, both what we have and what is to come, it makes the game have a Weiß Schwarz feel imo. I both enjoy it in a way and alsos I find myself not using the cards cause I don't like the vibe of having autobots vs Karn
I think more than anything, my biggest concern is that they'll attempt more of 'the one ring' approaches, (beyond serialized cards, etc.) in order to push hype & sales, which will in turn give them more of a reason to raise (already ridiculous) pricing. I'm fine with most of the UB releases, because I'm still getting to play Magic, but these kind of decisions inspire me to invest fully in HP Masters, and proxy my cards instead of burning money just for the sake of keeping up.
But the real question- Which of the Universes Beyond sets are coming to Arena? I would have loved to play with the Doctor Who set, but I don’t play paper any more.
Man I'm a huge 40k fan and dr who fan, LotR, all that's great. I still 110% hate the universes beyond sets, for the immersion breaking nature of them. There is no argument in their favour you can throw at me that will get me to ignore how blatantly NOT magic the gathering it all is. I don't want to play spongebob attacking iron man equipped with a whopper, I wanna play magic :[ EDIT: you're not a shill, I don't hate you, you didn't offend me. You actually make very good points for UB, and arguably as long as WotC prospers it's good for magic. The immersion break is just my opinion, and now that the cat's outta the bag I think that the only compromise I'd be happy with personally is if EVERY single UB card gets a reskin, a in-canon mtg themed universes within version
One a year is fine, but dropping a regular set for it feels really bad. Also will they all be at the price point of LOTR? Are all the sets each year eventually going to be "premium" sets? I'm more worried how much everything will cost than the UB aspect of it.
I agree with you 100% with one heavy caveat. I play commander and modern. If they print a power puff girls set I'm emailing you and calling you a fucking shill.
Hard to believe that Wizards is ever going to put any stock into their own IP ever again when they go to all the trouble of designing a second New Capenna set, only to panic at the last second when the first New Capenna set underperforms and quickly slop a Ravnica veneer all over it.
I mean, if they started banning or restricting cards that are overplayed in standard, one less set per year kinda flows with the longer rotation cycle making standard a bit less intense and a bit more approachable. Not that that's what they're doing, but it *could* lead to a more chill standard.
This is pretty much going back to their original idea. Look at the back of every magic card and you'll see deck master. That was the name of their system of play and was going to use many different worlds, but they stuck with the MTG one.
These guys got to bring back the stuff that made us fall in love with magic the gathering start over with new reprints new artworks for all the old stuff from 1993 and worked their way up back to 2024 because a lot of these old cards need to come back
I just miss the day all cards only got one artwork that way it was easy to remember and even if you forgot. Just seeing the artwork would give you enough info to remember. That’s gone. It’s 10x harder to remember cards and even when you do some random set or SL is gonna come out and make a different art just so you get confused again in a match. I use to think looking over the table and seeing a bad foil was the worst of my problems. Now I’m having to look over and say “what’s that?” I got to pick it up and read it to remember it. After a while you just start to not care about remembering anymore cause you know you’re gonna have to pick up something at some point to read it.
There's no IP that I want in MTG more than... MTG. The other stuff is fine and even mechanically good but if they had the same mechanics but were the old MTG universe I'd enjoy them more. That's exactly why I'm okay with them though tbh. OLD MTG universe was what I liked. Before planeswalker cards and the mending and all that crap lore updating. Before we went to Ravnica 1000 times. I love a lot of newer characters but I despise the lazy eldrazi and nicol bolas and new phyrexian storylines. I think new age planeswalkers typically feel flat and are uninteresting story pieces. I want more stuff like the last Eldraine set. More stuff like exploring the unexplored Ixalan. Even more weird gimmick sets like MKM recently as a cool way of adding stuff like clue and surveil support without feeling like we were doing too much on Ravnica again and instead just doing a quick spotlight before moving on despite being a full set. For me the best way to do universes beyond is do it EXACTLY how they did warhammer and dr who. I didn't really like the LotR thing but I can understand why mega flagship products (marvel) will be that way. I just don't want anything other than mega flagship ones doing that.
If Universes Beyond wasn't black bordered, I don't think anyone would have any problem with them. But now you've got One Ring and (WTF?) Orcish Bowmasters dominating Modern. No.
The fact the 2nd strongest card from LOTR isn't a legendary creature or land, but these dorks is ridiculous. Can't wait for MTGxMarvel, where the Infinity Gauntlet and... Bob from Hydra will warp the format. @@PleasantKenobi
I only started playing magic a little over a year ago in January of 2023. Since then I have made somewhere between 30-40 commander decks. At least 5, maybe 6 of them are LOTR themed decks. Personally, I really like the universes beyond sets and hope to see more IP's that I enjoy added over time. One that I hope eventually gets its own full set like LOTR did is Star Wars. If that ever happened I'd probably spend more than I should on it and wizards could do another 1 of 1 serialized card for the dark saber. I personally don't care much for serialized cards and have never bought a collectors box, let alone a collectors booster pack, but I see the appeal for those that do. That being said, I do see why some people aren't happy about universes beyond not only existing, but also expanding more and more. So far my favorite things from MTG specifically are dinosaurs and Phyrexians and I really hated how the story in MoM ended so quickly. I was hoping MoM would be the beginning of the war and the following set would be the conclusion, not everything being resolved in a single set. Side note: I really hope that for future sets like LOTR where it is a proper full set will be standard legal. I was so looking forward to building a Nazgul standard deck.
no, i don't think i'm overreacting. i too like many of the franchises brought in. but identity is important for my immersion. i stopped buying cards a few years ago (after 25 years of buying) and i am the sole deckbuilder in my circle of friends, so it's not a personal problem. let me phrase it like this: i really liked andor. i watched it and i liked it. but the overall watering down from the onslaught of things star wars tried to be over the last decade really hurt star wars overall. and that is a bit sad.
Soon a turn of MTG is gonna sound like “I tap my Charmander to deal 1 damage to your Severus Snape, and that proc’s my Twilight Sparkle to make a treasure token, and I’ll use that one mana to cast Peter Parker’s camera, getting a picture token. I’ll pass the turn”
Honestly the sooner chris cox gets sacked the better. 🤷♂️ Universes beyond is such a weird product. Its the epitome of "Not all products are for evwryone." I was super hyped for Lord of the Rings and was Geeking out over the references in the doctor who sets as the cards were spoiled. But honestly i genuinely dont care about fallout or Assassin's creed short of having a laugh that the one WOTC employee who has an Etrata commander deck ought to be sneaking in a few good things for her. I don't know, if the cards are on the cards are fun. And thinking about how much joy the sets i loke brought me i cant really hate the line as a whole.
However much I love WH40k, when playing Magic the Gathering, I wanna play Magic. Not just mechanically, but thematically. Out of the Tombs is the only WH40k card I own. The Eldest Reborn is just okay, but it's my personal staple and I'll play it more than is truly reasonable. There's still a whole lot of Magic-Magic, both past and future, so I'll be perfectly fine for the coming while, but it's still... unexciting news, let's say. One sneaky little pet peeve is borders. I genuinely love bordered cards, and consistency makes my brain happy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: they should just print UB cards concurrently with their in-universe reskins. I think UB is neat and they've done a great job with it so far, but it's also legit to dislike the tonal dissonance that comes with mechanically unique Spongebob cards or to be worried about when/how/if those cards will be able to be reprinted. Printing both at once solves both problems, plus wizards gets to keep making ungodly amounts of money. They already print 6 goddam versions of every card in a set these days, it shouldn't be that hard for them to print Cannon and UB at the same time
Mark Rosewater has stated before that Universe Beyond sets won't have any Universe Within cards, only Secret Lairs and "Booster Fun" crossovers are allowed to if they're Eternal legal.
thought this meant to just print non magic cards only into blue white at first
They should at least give us SpongeBeeble.
There is no in universe printing of UB (non Secret Lair) products. And there never will be. Splitting sales would make UB less profitable, and would mean, in the worst case, they lose money on the IP. You do not want to know how much Hasbro paid for LotR.
UB is the new Cannon. Some BS about Nicol Bolas manipulating the multiverse to bring in completely random crap. 😑
I guess I'm down to just Pre-Modern if I even keep playing at all.
As someone that plays and collects since 2000, I never found another MTG story to be as immersive as the Weatherlight saga or sets like Odyssey (Novels were a thing then, a good thing...). Man, how I liked some of the characters... Tsabo, Gerrard, Seton, Kamahl, Urza, Ertai, Belbe, Yawgmoth, Sissay - It was an exciting, immersive fantasy setting that could offer the best strategic framework for a card game - ever! However these days it seems to be just that, a strategic gameplay framework where you can put anyhting in. Mechanics are for rent and the story went bankrupt.
Apart from the cool Ixalan set, a lot of them seem like some hearthstone style gimmick. (Streets of new cappena - mean streets of Gadgetzan (almost the same set symbol), Murder at Karlov Manor - Murder at Castle Nathria (lol!), Showdown in the Badlands - Outlaws of thunder junction etc). It's "MTG meets the".... yeah, I dislike that. I dislike it a lot. Came to magic to meet magic. Stuff like that is cheap tricks in comparison. I get it, everything in MTG is inspired by something else, from folk tales to complex mythologies. I'm fine with inspiration, less fine the harder design leans in on it, and fully disinterested when there is no line between that which inspires and that which shows up on the card. If someone enjoys it and engages with it...power to them, I love them for it. Doesn't have to be me. Won't be me.
Noooo!! You can't have this very valid opinion!!! You'd be an MTG debbie downer then!!!! /s
In my opinion Neon Dynasty is how you do a "genre shift" nicely, at least in terms of art direction. Technology has a "indistinguishable from magic" aesthetic. Making a glow on the edge of a blade invoke more of a flaming sword rather than a lightsaber. I also like how many of the mechs look like they were folded like origami even if they didn't keep that design for all of them, maybe the folded paper aesthetic should have been in the armor and robots as well.
...all this is opposed to New Cappena with uninspired "guns but it's vials of magic as magazines" when they somehow made mages using fingerguns so cool looking. A lot of clothing just looks like something you could see someone wearing in our world. The Riveteers are the worst offender with most just wearing suspenders and a white collared shirt. The Brokers and some of the Maestros have suits with bits of armor glued on, I wish they instead did it the other way around with plate/studded/chain armor made to look like a suit. Only some Cabaretti get close to the level of ostentatiousness I want from a magical organization that prides itself on it, maybe put in more of a druidic plant clothing or royal archwizard look to them. The Obscura need more visual identity, make their magic the most art deco.
For me, this same reasoning is why Universes Beyond cards don't bother me. People talk about it destroying the sanctity of Magic's world, but I feel like that happened years before UB and I'm still here playing anyway. Because as much of a fan as I used to be of the story and world, the mechanics are what really keep me coming back.
I don’t want to keep Universes Beyond out of eternal formats, but I do think it could be cool to have its own format, y’know?
ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN
I discovered that Modern isn't an Eternal format.
Universes Beyond could work as an independent format with probably a restricted list over a banned list (For now, because I can't think about something like One Ring or Orcish Bowmasters being so strong that need to get banned)
I like Universes Beyond by itself, and don't mind it taking over tiny parts of eternal formats, but I LOVE this idea far more than allowing them into all eternal formats. Commander legal, and a UB format would be perfect.
I have heard before that every mtg problem could be solved with "just make a format for that."
Unless they're all Lord of the Rings I think they missed the point on why that sold so well.
lol, wait until Marvel and Star Wars SHATTER LotR's numbers.
They just see money signs.
@@DerekScottBland I can see your point. However, unless something big chances with both franchises, it could end up mostly being people who were already buying MtG buying it because its more MtG.
Star Wars especially though isn't doing well as a franchise. It's been five years since the last movie in theatres, and the last decade of material related to it, barring the first two seasons of the Mandalorian, have been either divisive or of generally low quality depending on who you ask.
Another reason LotR sold as well as it did was cause of people chasing for the One of One Ring, along with other serialized cards...
@@pirakalord55 - let's be honest, "divisive" is merely a different way of saying that sexists and racists who thought the Star Wars universe belonged to them found out that it didn't.
I wouldn't really mind Universes Beyond if Wizards worked more on their own IP, The Pirexian invasion was handled really poorly imo, I want to see some of the care they put in LOTR in an actual magic set, I want a great story in universe, because it was magic what first got me into magic, don't neglect your own story in your quest for carboard fornite
It's amazing that WotC puts out consistently shite products lore-wise in their own IP, but then they do Warhammer 40k and Doctor Who and goddamn NAIL IT.
The thing is, WotC isnt creating new lore for these crossovers. Theyre building products based off already popular IPs with stories that have been popular for decades. Thats infinitely easier than developing a new unpriven story at the same relative time that youre making a set based off that story.
The difference is LOTR was written 70 years ago by a guy who cared and put his entire life into it. They didn’t have to do anything to the story. Magic didn’t start with a story and now they only vaguely attach a story to it while trying to keep it within the abilities they chose to use and playtesting.
@@ASaturnalia - but people still have to work to make sure lore is represented properly. If they took a fraction of the attention they paid to making sure the Doctor Who, Warhammer and LotR sets were faithful to the lore and applied that to their own work and making better lore, there would be a drastic improvement. But we've seen that the players really didn't give a shit about the story. For the most part they just want new cards for their decks.
@@DerekScottBland You make it sound like creative is TRYING to make a lackluster story, or that a higher budget would help. No matter how hard they work or how much money they dump into it, it is IMPOSSIBLE to know how an audience of millions will perceive a brand new story. The resources being used to design sets based on established canon from outside IPs have nothing to do with those used for creating new worlds and stories to build MTG sets around. UB is probably the area of Magic where Creative has a lower amount of resources alloted than usual.
My main concern is reprints. How are they handle the license expiring. Will univers within card basicly be reserve list cards in 5 years if they can't renew there contract.
Yes, because Wizards has demonstrated that they aren't smart enough to put any language in contracts that allow them to even use the name of the old card as a sub-name on a reprint. This means that the best you can hope for is a reprint with a new name / artwork like they did with the Stranger Things cards.
@@DerekScottBland So long as they go wholehog on Universes Within at some point, I'm largely okay with that.
Who cares ? Why don't we just make a board game then and eliminate the collectability altogether.
So it's tricky as it depends on the card. I believe Games Workshop owns the trademark to things like Astartes and Tyrranid for the creature types of cards from that set, which will make releasing the cards under another name harder, since the creature types won't line up. But for Lord of the Rings, the Tolkien estate doesn't own a trademark on elves, dwarves, wizards, or halflings, so renaming the cards is a non issue.
I think that they're probably in the clear for a lot of the upcoming crossover sets too (maybe this is an issue they noticed after Warhammer) since there shouldn't be too many creatures from Final Fantasy, Fallout, or Assassin's Creed with unusual creature types, and the ones currently I can think of that might cause an issue also have some loopholes they can use. Like making Fran typed as a rabbit so they don't have to make viera a creature type, and Kimhari as a beast or cat so they don't have do make ronso a type.
The issue will come from them saying already that the big set release cards are just too many cards to rename and reskin in another full set, so I can see them maybe only doing this for cards that they determine are worth reprinting.
I am hoping for bigger universes within sets. I guess we'll get universes beyond train for the next 5 years and than start doing universes within masters sets to get all the magic boomers like me back in that they loose in the process of making money and bringing people in with universe beyond.
The card I want the most as a magic card would be out of the tombs. Super fun not op design, that brings stuff from your graveyard and mills your self.... Love that card... N but laser shooting skellies even if I like warhammer.... I don't want that in my reanimating magical trees and forest monster decks since I go for artwork and an artwork theme in my decks.... Plus having hulk or captain America played in the most powerful formats in magic just feels silly and makes me lose interest in them.
Maybe that's wizards evil nonspoken plan to bring people back to standard. Since hopefully captain America won't be legal there.
I guess there will be a community rising playing commander only with magic IP cards... But that will take time seeing gimli hold miolnir commanding the Ironman powers quad against pickle Rick's evil storm and metal deck....
Universes beyond cool card designs, but 🤮
To your point, Hasbro's earnings report highlights "Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming Segment operating profit declined 2% and operating profit margin of 36.1% due to higher royalty costs associated with Universes Beyond."
That means even the huge sales numbers weren't enough to cover licensing. I hope that at least scares them out of UB premier sets.
It think it just means they will decide to go after second rate IPs that won't demand the premium LOTR did for the licensing.
@@levigoldson And coincidentally no one will give a shit about and then they'll shake their heads in confusion about what went wrong lol
@@brianmattei7134Oh please god let this happen because at least then it might force wizards to stop making UB the main focus of the game. Like once per year I’m fine with (not really but it’s tolerable) but this bullshit of spamming UB stuff as every other product is beyond infuriating.
4 Main Sets a Year, 1 every 3 Months, plus Precons, plus the Yearly Reprint Set, AND THAT IS IT. WE SHOULD NOT BE FLOODED WITH THIS MUCH PRODUCT.
Then just ignore what isn't those?
@@Greg501- What do you mean ignore? I'm obligated (not legally) to purchase every set that is released.
@@Greg501-Because the ecosystem it creates is unhealthy regardless of whether or not it draws money out of your pocket? At minimum, I suspect this current world order is to blame for Magic's seemingly increasing problem with every product having at least one broken expensive chase card and printing errors becoming more common - when you're dumping out tons of new product, you don't have the same amount of time to devote to quality control.
@@Greg501- "just ignore the format warping cards with minimal testing and deal with the emergency bans that come about because Hasbro doesn't have all the monies."
@@drpibisback7680 who needs quality control when the pay pigs gobble up all the slop?
This is the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny
Good guys, bad guys, and explosions as far as the eye can see
Commander as a whole tbh
God tier reference
Only one will survive
I wonder who it will be
This is the ultimate showdown of ultimate destiny
I needed this nostalgia blast; thanks.
I returned to Magic after not playing it since Lorwyn came out, mostly because I was burned out and sometimes hated the mana system. Getting mana screwed or mana flooded is probably the single most frustrating thing that can happen in a game.
After playing Hearthstone and some other games where the resource is automatically given and then coming back, I have completely changed my perspective... The mana system is so good. Sometimes it fucks you up, but it adds so much more depth to decision-making while playing a game; deckbuilding is not the only thing that it touches. I've learned to love it.
Magic in a few years:
"I will flash in Fluttershy to block your Sauron and then activate my Halo Ring at instant speed, destoying your army of Mary Sues.
Don't forget to equip your Big Mac and fries to combo
I will play Chris Cocks, Hasbro CEO from my hand, generating 50 treasure tokens when he enters the battlefield
@@ThePancaked1 dont forget to sacrifice half your creatures to generate the treasures
you can basically do that now
What’s funny is that this was always part of the appeal of Magic from day 1, when your Holy Giant Firebreathing Drudge Skeletons would be in the middle of jumping at your enemy and suddenly decide to go be a farmer and send you a tribute of food instead
Admittedly none of those situations were effectively ads for other things stuck in the middle of my card game
I have no problem with ub but i think the cards shouldn't be legal in modern and legacy
I just wish they had kept Universes Beyond as its own thing, like old Un- sets used to be. I finally picked up one of the Warhammer 40k sets after getting introduced to the setting, originally intending to use the deck as the basis for another Commander deck. But I found that the part of me that plays Magic for its own settings and "vibes" (for lack of a better word), I didn't actually *like* mixing the UB cards with "actual" Magic cards. The borders are different, and they just don't *feel* the same. I'm not sure I'll get as much enjoyment out of the Final Fantasy set (the one UB product I'm actually looking forward to as a lifelong fan) as I thought I would
But I'm pretty much a Vorthos-minded player, so UB was never going to an easy sell for me. I do agree with you that this strategy on their part isn't going to work longterm (I honestly think Marvel's the only property with any potential at all to rival LotR, and even that's pretty shaky), so I'd imagine in 5 or so years time we'll see them back off on UB, sticking to smaller, Commander-focused releases for properties that don't cost nearly as much to license. And, eventually, they'll run out of properties, and go back to focusing on their own
but. but in universe cards have hadTHREE different borders not counting all the special treatment stuff. So why is the different borders a big deal?
'cause I have a negative emotional reaction to them
Not everything humans do is logical
ya. but saying the borders are "different" is a problem makes no sense when magic cards have had countless different borders.
weird complaint but you do you.
dude I wasn't writing a fucking dissertation up there, I was talking about my emotional response to something off the cuff
picking apart the language of it just makes you look like a fucking dick
@@nosrin1988me just playing the normal current card border and some borderless cards. Not a big fan of that Google of frames we get every set either.
And somehow for me the universes beyond border does stick out aswell next to normal magic bordered cards... I do like, kind of that they made this distinction, but I kinda don't like it aswell... Since even cards that would fit in my magical forest artwork wise just don't because of that border..
While the one of one ring was a scummy business tactic it certainly brought attention to the set and contributed to the product. I don't see that happening with other intellectual properties
I don't think it was scummy at all.
@@PleasantKenobi That's fair. I just don't like the practice of making "golden tickets"
I'm calling it now... 1/1 Infinity Stones in the Marvel sets. If people got crazy over One Ring, imagine the fervor if there were six of them in play.
@@PMAvers 1 of 1 Infinity Gauntlet.
It was scummmy for sure
Sorry magic already doesn't feel like magic anymore. Adding more ips that don't feel like magic is only going to further dilute it.
"iTs NoT fOr YoU!"
I hear that so much from people who don't really play Magic outside of kitchen table. And thats fine. But when kitchen table sets get into Modern, I'm done.
@@refundreplayI don’t play kitchen table and I really really don’t care about UB. Cards are cards. Be upset if they are broken just like we always have been.
If they made a card called idk, Oko’s crown, a 4 generic artifact that gave you protection from everything the turn you cast it and that you tapped to add an experience counter on it and draw cards equal to the amount of experience counters on it, and in your upkeep you took damage equal to that number as well. Would you be as upset? Or is the issue that you don’t like the art that plays no difference anywhere outside of Un-sets
@@ASaturnalia I'm sick of seeing Unsets in competitive Magic. I'm tired of seeing Anime art on Magic. I'm really sick of the awful flavor dilution of Fantasy meets power armor, Assassin's Creed.
You can enjoy it all you want. Don't take it personally that I hate that trash. Its more cards for you when I stop giving my money to Hasbro. Maybe not you the individual, but you as a general, the public.
Some people get really mad that I don't like Magic slowly becoming Weiẞ Schwarz.
Yeah I’m kinda losing interest , primarily in paper magic…
Yup. Magic isn't Magic anymore.
The first sign of any company going to shit is the milking of any pemmy their customers have.
Actually the first sign is *always* a change to some corporate structure
Universes Beyond is really called
"MtG: We're Kinda Out of Ideas"
Mtg: Short term brand destruction
While I concur with that being indicative of the well of creativity nearing its endpoint there's a question to be asked here: what IP/product goes on for 3 decades without reaching this point?
WOTC cannot singlehandedly advance the literary canon, they supposedly can't dabble in non-fantasy genres without gutting the game's aesthetic integrity and they have profit threshholds to meet.
You can't just keep piling on restriction upon restriction upon restriction and expect their creative spirit to persevere in perpetuity, there is a practical ceiling.
@@penguindrummer252No one said that they had to only due fantasy just that lazily throwing pre existing IPs into the game because you are creatively bankrupt then spamming said IPs is infuriating. They should take a page from Konami and instead use the IPs to inspire new sets and stories instead that feel like magic the gathering.
@thesuddendemise7735 The main story sets are exactly that, other IPs but Magic. Its sad, there truely is no magic left. Modern Horizons and the Remastered sets are by far the best things to come out in the last few years.
Imagine trying to play a game of magic and your opponent plays Jonkler, Man, and Scarlet Johansen’s ass infinite life combo…
It won’t be long before UB is standard legal. They already announced that assassins creed will be legal for “60-card formats”. If not that than marvel will be. Expect a LOT of marvel products. LotR will look like a splash release compared to marvel
Marvel will be an absolute shit show
Considering how much money Wizards shelled out to make LotR happen, they're almost certainly taking an even bigger gamble with Marvel. Shoehorning a Marvel set into Standard would force Arena-only players and FNM regulars to care about it, but will that be enough to cover the behemoth licensing costs? Bear in mind, Marvel already has its own competing card game in Snap, so their asking price ought to be higher than you think.
@@alexbrangan2885 LotR is on arena though?
Thank god now i dont have to worry about keeping up with as many new cards and sets
I bought into Warhammer Commander out of FOMO, but in the aftermath of it, I regretted it, because the cards were extremely available on the secondary market for cheap.
And so, I had no such fear about LotR or Dr. Who, didn't buy into either of them, on account of their excessive cost, and the cards are overwhelmingly extremely available for cheap.
"The beatings will continue until morale improves" - WOTC on universes beyond
Hot Pockets set coming!
Given their previous collaboration...
If they make UB Discworld I will never complain about it again.
I support this.
honestly there could be a lot of fun and unique card designs going from fantasy book series to fantasy book series, maybe slightly less well known each time.
Yeah but the chance to absolutely bungle it is there
This will *never* happen. You have a better chance of winning the lottery everyday for the rest of your life.
Honestly, UB bugs me a lot less when it's another fantasy property. Dr Who squeaks by with the "he's always ending up where he's not supposed to" excuse.
Sets are great but I rarely buy boxes of boosters anymore. Only the occasional loose pack to support my favorite LGS. The fiscal value is simply rarely there. The fun is.
Hi, can I ask the source of your profile pic?
@drakegrandx5914 Chaos;Head. The pic is from the anime but it's awful. Read the visual novel. It's amazing.
@@jonunciate7018 Oh, I know about Chaos;Head; was already thinking of picking up the VN when I got around to it! Thank you so much!
The seal is already broken, we can't get rid of it now so all i can do is buy even less product. If it would have stayed secret lair stuff i wouldn't really care but i feel all the universe beyond stuff kind of kills the flavor of magic.
I've been speaking with my wallet since the Walking Dead. Not cause of the lair, but because of the video podcast shortly after where the main guy talked down to the legitimate concerns as if we were just whiny babies.
WOTC hasn't really earned back my trust since.
MTG will just become another Monopoly. I'm gonna go back to YuGiOh.
Man i just want to get the funny cowboy set
I think you are spot on here. However, there is a risk that UB sell decently specifically because of their modern legality, if Modern Horizons 3 was balanced down due to power imbalance concerns, but the UB design team didn't get the memo, we could have Chris Cox asking why "we aren't making Marvel a mainstay, the sales numbers for Civil War are great".
Just give me the various Jim Henderson movie cards. Labyrinth & Dark Crystal especially.
I wish I could upvote this MORE! I imagine the Skeksis would have an Exploit theme, maybe let them partner with each other to get the cabal vibe from the movie.
Don’t make me dream. I am still upset Age of Resitance got cancelled.
Me personally, I cringe at every UB but then for every Walking Dead or Stranger Things there’s a LotR, Dr Who or 40k. I find I love some of the cards in hindsight and I get less angry over time. I do hate the different border treatment though and it makes it look like a different game. My OCD can’t let this part go.
Ain't MKM or the cowboys quick drawing hand crossbows as cringe or worse?
I’m glad I’m not the only one who is annoyed at the borders and the text boxes being different
MKM odd boarders are part of why i hate the set @@heliobarbosa3525
The borders are hideous. They look like those custom card maker websites. The D&D sets were done with normal borders, why can't the rest of it be like that?
we've already had 3 different borders on normal cards though. Not counting showcase and other special treatments. Do people just refuse to use old bordered cards or etc? I feel like the different borders are a good idea and the least of the issues.
As popular as Marvel is, i just don't want to run spiderman in my Nekusar deck. Others might, which is fine.
I think most people would wish for there to be an untainted MTG without any other IPs and also the one we have now, because both are good/cool/fun, but sadly we can only have one of them...
eventually theyll make a format call it "classic" or something where only sets that were "standard" legal are included. thatll let them milk old players a little bit
These are honestly some of my more favorite videos you do: introspection on the hobby and even keeled response. I think you're bang on when it comes to what we can sort of expect from universes beyond too - a bit of cloud chasing bloat followed by a retraction when they realize not all fandoms have 200mil+ plus in them. That or there's going to be a lot more 001/001 prints in our future!
we don't need "even keeled" from him right now we need "reprint fetchlands you cowards" i don't understand how you go from that to being fine with a second reserved list that adds hundreds of new cards every year
The T pose cloud in the thumbnail has me wheezing from laughing so hard
With the idea that Hasbro only cares about what will make them money, I have wondered why they haven't taken steps to do away with the reserve list. I wish that they would. The idea that I need to spend $700+ to get a land that my deck needs to play at it's best is absurd. They could even protect the current collectors with a trade-in system. You could send in your OG duals or your Cradle for a special art foil version that they agree to not print again. That would give them freedom to reprint them with a standard art without ruining the "collectible value" of the old cards. It would probably even raise the value of the original prints as well because you know there are people that wouldn't trade them in for the new one.
If this means more D&D, I'm happy.
If this means a Star Wars/MCU set, I'm quitting Magic lmao.
Oh, you know it's Star Wars/MCU next. I'm with you though, they've killed the game for me with this crap
MCU already announced.
well have fun quitting magic because MCU has already been announced for a while now
LOTR is the literal inspiration for modern fantasy. So of course it sold so well. It could easily be a plane within the Magic Universe. These other IP’s, other than maybe Final Fantasy, don’t feel like they could be a part of the Magic Universe.
I see this as Core Sets with a trade-off in the sense that Core Sets were unexciting, but reprints were important.
Now we might get a few exciting stand-alone sets, but the need for reprints is worrying with external IPs. I'd be a lot more excited if they stuck with WotC IPs for that reason, but UB by itself is fine if they can find a way around it.
Edit: ok the 12 Rick deck sounds horrifying, and I want to see that happen.
I'm hoping I can be patient and wait for this to run its course.
I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about Universes Beyond. I think I'd rather it hadn't been introduced to begin with, but now that it's here, it's far from the worst thing going on with MTG and WotC at the moment.
I've bought a few UB cards for commander decks (e.g Keeper of Secrets from Warhammer, Time Beetle from Doctor Who), but mostly creatures and spells that feel like they could just as easily fit into MTG canon. I'm not quite ready to put major characters like Frodo or the Tenth Doctor into any of my decks just yet, but maybe I'll get there eventually (and I'd have absolutely no problem playing against other people who do use such cards).
Honestly, I have been saying for about a year that by 2030 we'd have a Runeterra set (the League of Legends universe), and these news only makes me think it will come faster.
The 'is mana good' battle is even funnier after you totally changed how mana works with Party Box. Love party box by the way - it shot life into pretty much all the cards we haven't played in our collection as an accessable 'formatish of sorts
12:35 As long as Rick Astley is on the battlefield, you can’t surrender.
They added the extra standard set release only a few years ago with midnight hunt/crimson vow, so that extra release window hasn’t even existed that long, so having it be a Beyond release instead isn’t that big of deal to me. That means there will be more time between standard releases to give it a bit more attention.
I can live with Universes Beyond to some degree, I kind of just wish it wasn't coming at the expense of Magic IP as they have now announced. This was a fear some people had from the start of Universes Beyond and now it's here.
9:54 is Where the video REALLY starts. More commentary like this please! Everyone just skip to that time stamp.
I think the biggest concern I have is that it shows even clearer what you stated and what we all know: Hasbro does not know how or why these products work. They are going to blindly throw resources at outside IPs hoping to get some quick cash. Meawhile, thought the Magic IP will certainly not die, as you stated no one really cares about Kellan. The current story, the standard enviroment, the community engagement, it's just not very strong. Devoting resources to fleshing these things out would help strenghten the game much more than whatever growth Universes Beyond is going to bring once they get past the 5 biggest outside IPs.
The one thing about Fallout I do not understand fully is that Bethesda already has a Fantasy setting IP in The Elder Scrolls. Why did they opt to Fallout which is a Sci-Fi rather than Elder Scrolls?
The other really easy thing to miss with great fun exciting products like dr who and lord of the rings is they let the design team work overtime to make fun thematic experiences for players. I'm glad dr who was dr who skinned but what made that product really shine was how much fun it was to play together and how well all the themes were represented. They could do that in *any* product it's just that design considerations usually get in the way. With universes beyond it feels like designers are allowed to do EVERYTHING while with other products they're constantly being asked how much they can cut back and still sell to players.
My issue is fairly simple... I don't want to play Weiß Schwarz. I want to play Magic: The Gathering.
For those that don't know: Weiß Schwarz, to put it simply, is THE CROSSOVER GAME™. Mechanically, they're different, but I mention this game because it has no inherent story. It is literally just "Wouldn't it be cool if X could fight Y?". That seems to be the direction the game is taking.
I don't have a problem with all these other IPs getting their chocolate in MTG's metaphorical peanut butter. I have a problem with the MTG lore becoming an afterthought just so we can have Sauron fighting Thanos or whatever.
Let's be honest, the stories for both Wilds of Eldraine and Lost Caverns of Ixalan were pretty scant and boring, and while Karlov Manor was better... it still had a ton of plot convenience and nonsense to actually tell the story, and was very groan inducing in parts.
Point being, the more this goes on, the more likely that MTG's lore will get even worse as their focus turns more and more towards these crossovers. I personally hate that and hope it isn't the case... and it frustrates me to consider that I'm probably in the minority.
You know, if WOTC just plan announced "WE'RE RELEASING LESS PRODUCT THIS YEAR THAN BEFORE" i would pop off so happy. the unending spoiler season and new changes is too exhausting. mentally but especially finically
I've had to quit magic because the competitive side was what was most fun to me and i simply could not afford to compete anymore. too many new broken cards to always buy to keep up with the meta.
The only reason LotR and MH1/2 was such a big success is because of the artificially injected power creep.
They should just collaborate with nature channels like Nat Geo or Animal Planet for a change. Some of the most evocative cards are based on real life creatures and phenomena. It could be an interesting take on the MtG setting while staying consistent with its aesthetics. Who'd say no to Mt. Vesuvius as Valakut or a Shark Week Shark Typhoon?
I tried getting back into magic but I just can't anymore. There's so little of what I loved left. I think the fact that you've been gradually introduced to all this shit is why you accept it.
It's sad that it's not for you any more, but that doesn't mean that it's not for other people. Plenty of people genuinely enjoy UB.
On one hand I hate the UB stuff that doesn't fit MTG, on the other hand Murders at Karlov Manor, Thunder Junction, the modern horror manor of duskmourne, and the interplanar racetrack of "tennis" all feel like a fever-dream magic nightmare consuming the soul of the game so I guess good ol' fantasy MTG is just a one set a year kinda thing now anyways.
At least Bloomburrow and "Ultimate" return to Tarkir sounds great. Also i think Final Fantasy -mostly- fits MTG quite well. I just hope they don't exclude Tactics since it's basically the best one ever despite not being a numbered entry.
Was the robot battles of Brothers War good old fashioned Magic, or no? What about Mirrodin?
@@PleasantKenobi Yes actually to both. As a recurring thing throughout the planes is that different planes are on different tech levels, in fact different continents on the same plane are at different stages of tech.
This is even made more evident from the plane of Equilor where Urza actually learns more sophisticated engineering from the residents there. And the Equilor civilization itself was sunsetting as they been around longer than even the Thran who themselves were a highly advanced civilization.
A recurring theme is every culture starts off primitive, then improves along the way, until it eventually reaches its apex, then later fades away. And the best part was that aside from planeswalkers, this tech is largely independent from each other.
In fact for MTG, different cultures are at different stages when it comes to firearms technology. Like you have Thunder Junction and New Capenna using a more futuristic energy pistols and rifles. While on Tarkir they are more using the equivalent of fire lances from the 900s to 1200s. While on Caliman of Dominaria, they are using matchlocks that are akin to the 1400s. Then you have Innistrad where they use flintlocks which is tech from the 1600s. On Ixalan, as according to the pirate Breeches, they are still tinkering with firearms and currently only have an experimental version of a handheld one.
"become a Microsoft consultant" soo good...the dream...keep it up brother
I misread 'drops one MTG set a year' as 'there will be only one MTG set a year'. I guess Gen-Z skunked that word. Well, it's Secret Lair that really got the new meaning into my head.
I think LotR set was more impactfull than just Ring and Bowmasters. Landtype-cycle cycle legit changed all formats imo
Definitely. I’d vote for Bowmasters as the most impactful in Legacy and Lorien as the most impactful in Vintage. Both of those cards have radically changed what decks look like in their respective formats.
Yeah the landcyclers are a big reason why Living End is tier 1 to begin with.
I'm still baffled people are ok with The One Ring, an extra turn card that ancestral recalls twice. 😂 And Bowmasters is yet another stupid design that keeps all 1 thoughness creatures out of the format. So even if it's "just" 2-3 cards, it's not the amount of problematic cards that matter, it's how much that one card warps the game / pushes out how many decks and how many decks have to adopt these bs LOTR cards.
@@luisochoa576 I decided for myself that I will never play LotR in my modern decks and still keeping that promise. Even though some things like Lorien Revealed are fairly easy to find (unlike bow-boy and the ring) and those cards definetely make my decks better. I am not gonna change the meta at my lgs but at least I am trying :)
I love cross overs. I just prefer it to stick mostly to Commander though. It would also be nice to see a Pioneer Masters, but print cards that are intended to only be legal in Pioneer and reprint some good old Modern cards that aren’t playable in Modern anymore, like Tarmogyf and Dark Confidant. Pioneer would also be a great place for universes beyond to make new cards in a less broken format, by keeping them only legal there. I also would love to see more skins of old cards with the crossover art. Just over all keep down the power keep is all I care about. Also I hope to see the Affinity Stones as one of Soul Rings for each stone, with the Gauntlet being a one of Lightning Greaves.
PK, I want to vote with my wallet but I don't know how I could do that while expressing what I want from the game.
I'm mainly a competitive player and WotC have been putting competitive play on the backburner for years at this point. I want nationals back, I want at least the illusion of pro play to exist, I want certified judges, travelling, etc.
How could I use my wallet to impact this? I am genuinely looking for ideas.
every time I hear about a new set or theme coming, there's another 3 coming quickly after. I just did a prerelease for Eldraine, pretty recently, and now there's 2 main sets after with Ixalan and Ravnica, and now there's more coming, with a new batch of Horizons stuff and Commander decks and Bloomburrow and whatever else is set to release?? I can't keep up
No specific to this video but: My take on Secret Lair is that WoTC had a few SL sets that did really well so they went in hard on it but then it they ended up with a bunch of left of SL that no one wanted which is going to hurt a lot and no company wants to admit their "special" release product didn't do well. The change now allows them to sell just a much tighter margin to true demand and they don't have to admit their special product isn't popular.
Most of the people complain keep buying the product. Can’t really change anything if you’re not willing to speak with your wallets.
That's a funny assumption you are making. I think the people who truly hate UB are probably boycotting the products. It just doesn't matter because the biggest chunk of the demand isn't magic players, it's people from other communities who eat it up because they love Spider-Man and Final Fantasy. So you can't really speak with your wallet on something like this. There are too many other people throwing their wallets at WotC.
From the very beginning, when those fucking Walking Dead cards were revealed, I could tell that one day we would reach the point where all WotC does is churn out Universes Beyond shit. Maybe we haven't *quite* reached that point yet, but Magic the Gathering is slowly stopping being Magic the Gathering and instead becoming "hey look at this cool IP we managed to buy!"
I'm in the same boat as far as the 40k and Who decks. The 40k stuff was so well done and I also started watching Who because of the decks and now I'm a huge fan.
Called it the moment it started and folks were very aggro on me. It'll consistenly shift yoy until it's all or nearly all UB.
Business never does half measures.
I should note. It is fine for folks to like it imo. Definitely not for me. Only thing I knew is that it was going to take off and be the primary focus withing a few years. (Not there yet, will be though)
Wow the doctor who set also got me into the show! At least I'm not alone!
Same. I didn't knew something right up my alley existed and I never heard of it before.
UB needs to be its own format.
Universes Beyond really was the nail to the coffin that made me switch from Magic to the Flesh&Blood after 25 years of playing Magic
It's sad how many people flipped on secret lairs the second an IP they like got one.
This does make me excited for standard, though. Formats are great when WotC ignore them
The fans are the issue. When Kamigawa tanked financially, it was shelved for 20 years. If Universes beyond/secret lairs did terribly the first time, the experiment would already be over. People pay, so it's clear the fanbase want's a different game than I do and I've been done for several years now.
The novelty is what attracts people to universes beyond.
I don't like it because MTG has always had the great aspect of being able to take many different genres and settings, and tie them together with planes, and the mana system. We can have sentient robots, they're just mana powered constructs made using the magic of artifice. Same for flying motorbikes, and stargates.
Universes Beyond breaks the lore of Magic in drastic ways that no retcon in Magic history has. Cybermen and Super Mutants could have lore friendly equivalents, but I'd rather have canon friendly planes that take inspiration from Dr Who and Fallout than actually have those IPs.
Magic's direct story has never interested me, but I've always loved the world building. Ravnica as a place is so much more interesting than Jace as a character.
Abandoning that worldbuilding for short term gains, massive licensing costs, and Marvel style mass appeal is a deal breaker for me.
I feel like the better way to open up MTG for more people is to work on making sure the community, and product don't marginalize people. I've seen racism and sexism keeping people out of half a dozen local game stores in my area. There's also a massive onboarding problem. The brand new player experience for MTG is the worst of any major card game if you don't have a friend who is VERY good at onboarding people.
I want the game be inclusive for everybody, rather than begging on its hands and knees with bribery for everyone to like it, without addressing the things keeping people out.
"Buy our stuff! We have Street Figher! We have Dr Who! Please ignore the sexual harassment and racial slurs tossed around stores. Please!"
Please justify to me why angels and Demons are dressed like 1940s gangsters in an art deco reproduction of fantasy Manhattan. Please justify mechas in kamigawa and laser blades.
Because it’s Magic. Each Plane has it’s own rules and systems, and there’s supposed to be a near infinite number of them. The issue isn’t the themes or inspiration of other IPs to enter Magic, it’s that it’s no longer Magic.
No one would have complained about this stuff if it did not override the original IP, but it has. It’s not a Plane clearly based on LOTR, it’s just LOTR.
Even the Planes you mentioned, and others such as Amonkhet, are a step down from Dominaria, Lorwyn, Phyrexia, and Alara. The point is that Magic does not need these to be successful and it has tremendous potential due to its ability to synchronise the themes of a ton of different genres. The issue is that the people in charge of Magic do not care and are unwilling to put in the effort to keep Magic unique, or at least keep the UB stuff to fun/casual crossovers that aren’t necessary to care about if you want to seriously play Magic.
Magic is more of a soulless cash grab, trying to use other IPs to drag people into a game they can’t even make function anymore. At a certain point it becomes impossible to take seriously or care about.
@@pascalsimioli6777 Because it's a plane in the MTG multiverse, and the magical aspects of the plane run using the 5 colour mana system. The only thing that's different to most planes is the clothing, and architecture, it still adheres to the rules of the fiction it inhabits, such as magic systems.
What is beautiful about magic is that it can use swashbuckling pirates fighting dinosaurs, magitech bladerunner, mother goose fairy tales, and arabian nights inspired inventors fairs, while all feeling like the same fiction.
Magic can take a concept from other media or genres, and ask "How would you make that in this setting?", then that's how they do it. Karn for example is a robot, but he's not simply a pile of wires with an AI, he's a construct powered by Mana, brought to life by Xantcha's heart. They had to justify why he exists, how he came to be, instead of just saying "There's a robot now".
The mechas and laser blades in Kamigawa are powered via Mana, making them magitech. This is in contrast to something like a Sonic Screwdriver, which is purely technology.
Things like Karn, The Weatherlight, Kamigawa Mechs, and The Planar Bridge have technological themes, but fit within the magic system of the fiction they inhabit.
Media literacy isn't THAT hard.
@@Fly-the-Light You seem more like you're arguing with yourself than anyone else.
@@TeaIngyer I'm sorry; I was supposed to be replying to @pascalsimioli6777.
I’m happy that I’ve been playing and fostering a Flesh and Blood community in town
First off, not mad at what you say; I love hearing your take on things! It really makes me think.
Second off, a perspective: I currently have sold most of my collection, and before you stop reading, hear me out. When I heard Marvel would be a tent-pole release, it made me sad. I love Marvel! Been reading the comic since the 90s! Why was I sad? Upon introspection, it was because these IPs felt out of place. I've been playing Magic for... Honestly, I can't remember how long, and it's had its own flair. From Titanic Mechs to monkeys crewing race cars, it all still was Magic. That was the charm of it. When DnD came to the set, it felt natural because they were birthed from the same source. LotR felt... Okay to me, but I didn't personally buy it because it still felt... Out of place. Like when you're reading Harry Potter and all the sudden you get to the climax and Ash Ketchum tells Pikachu to thunderbolt Voldemort. Harry Potter does some crazy shenanigans too with animals doing crazy things and magic allowing whatever they can imagine. But then a person with a Pokemon coming in feels out of place because you've spent so long associating that memory with another franchise. It's not the same. Like when TMNT came to Batman. Or when Power Rangers came to Justice League. I read those. They were great for what they were: tongue and cheek joke sets meant to illicit some good times. But that was it. A flash in the pan. What WotC is doing is permanently altering the previous game. Imagine the Power Rangers were forever now a part of the Justice League. Would it feel the same? Not at all. It fundamentally changes the IP. And that's what gets me. It's no longer Magic. It doesn't feel like Magic. It's Super Smash Bros. Which I also love, but not when I want to play Magic. If I go to a friend's house and want to play Street Fighter and they're like, "But Ryu is in Smash Bros, let's play that!" See how that feels? Two different games. And that's why I sold my collection and kept a few decks. When people want to play Magic, I'll play Magic. And when people want to play Super Smash Bros, I'll grab a Fallout deck when they came out just for that occasion. But I'm not buying any more WotC sets like I used to. It's not the same game anymore.
The problem is ir they keep putting the premium cards un universes beyond, the market will move towards that product. Not for the IP, but for the power and value of the cards. For example the mana base of the doctor who commander decks and the commander decks of every set.
I am very happy I follow this channel, PK gives some good and well thought out arguments. He may be a little jarring at times but that is part of the appeal
I feel like looking at universes beyond, both what we have and what is to come, it makes the game have a Weiß Schwarz feel imo.
I both enjoy it in a way and alsos I find myself not using the cards cause I don't like the vibe of having autobots vs Karn
I think more than anything, my biggest concern is that they'll attempt more of 'the one ring' approaches, (beyond serialized cards, etc.) in order to push hype & sales, which will in turn give them more of a reason to raise (already ridiculous) pricing. I'm fine with most of the UB releases, because I'm still getting to play Magic, but these kind of decisions inspire me to invest fully in HP Masters, and proxy my cards instead of burning money just for the sake of keeping up.
But the real question- Which of the Universes Beyond sets are coming to Arena?
I would have loved to play with the Doctor Who set, but I don’t play paper any more.
We know Final Fantasy is coming. Probably safe to assume they're going to at least try to put all the "tentpole" sets UB
Man I'm a huge 40k fan and dr who fan, LotR, all that's great. I still 110% hate the universes beyond sets, for the immersion breaking nature of them. There is no argument in their favour you can throw at me that will get me to ignore how blatantly NOT magic the gathering it all is. I don't want to play spongebob attacking iron man equipped with a whopper, I wanna play magic :[
EDIT: you're not a shill, I don't hate you, you didn't offend me. You actually make very good points for UB, and arguably as long as WotC prospers it's good for magic. The immersion break is just my opinion, and now that the cat's outta the bag I think that the only compromise I'd be happy with personally is if EVERY single UB card gets a reskin, a in-canon mtg themed universes within version
I for one am just glad that Wizards acknowledges they can only print a finite number of cards per year
Don't care. I buy the products I like, I don't buy the products I don't like. Doctor Who bullshit made it in, anything else is fair game.
One a year is fine, but dropping a regular set for it feels really bad. Also will they all be at the price point of LOTR? Are all the sets each year eventually going to be "premium" sets? I'm more worried how much everything will cost than the UB aspect of it.
I agree with you 100% with one heavy caveat. I play commander and modern. If they print a power puff girls set I'm emailing you and calling you a fucking shill.
This sounds good to me. I always feel rushed trying to keep up with each new set. Having more time to play and draft the latest standard set is a plus
Hard to believe that Wizards is ever going to put any stock into their own IP ever again when they go to all the trouble of designing a second New Capenna set, only to panic at the last second when the first New Capenna set underperforms and quickly slop a Ravnica veneer all over it.
I mean, if they started banning or restricting cards that are overplayed in standard, one less set per year kinda flows with the longer rotation cycle making standard a bit less intense and a bit more approachable. Not that that's what they're doing, but it *could* lead to a more chill standard.
This is pretty much going back to their original idea. Look at the back of every magic card and you'll see deck master. That was the name of their system of play and was going to use many different worlds, but they stuck with the MTG one.
These guys got to bring back the stuff that made us fall in love with magic the gathering start over with new reprints new artworks for all the old stuff from 1993 and worked their way up back to 2024 because a lot of these old cards need to come back
your number are wrong here, it will be 4 magic tentpole sets not five, so the ratio is 2 UB tentpoles to 4 Magic tentpoles each year.
I know the chances are incredibly low, but a Halo UB would be SO COOL with how the lore is setup.
I just miss the day all cards only got one artwork that way it was easy to remember and even if you forgot. Just seeing the artwork would give you enough info to remember. That’s gone. It’s 10x harder to remember cards and even when you do some random set or SL is gonna come out and make a different art just so you get confused again in a match.
I use to think looking over the table and seeing a bad foil was the worst of my problems. Now I’m having to look over and say “what’s that?” I got to pick it up and read it to remember it. After a while you just start to not care about remembering anymore cause you know you’re gonna have to pick up something at some point to read it.
There's no IP that I want in MTG more than... MTG. The other stuff is fine and even mechanically good but if they had the same mechanics but were the old MTG universe I'd enjoy them more.
That's exactly why I'm okay with them though tbh. OLD MTG universe was what I liked. Before planeswalker cards and the mending and all that crap lore updating. Before we went to Ravnica 1000 times. I love a lot of newer characters but I despise the lazy eldrazi and nicol bolas and new phyrexian storylines. I think new age planeswalkers typically feel flat and are uninteresting story pieces.
I want more stuff like the last Eldraine set. More stuff like exploring the unexplored Ixalan. Even more weird gimmick sets like MKM recently as a cool way of adding stuff like clue and surveil support without feeling like we were doing too much on Ravnica again and instead just doing a quick spotlight before moving on despite being a full set.
For me the best way to do universes beyond is do it EXACTLY how they did warhammer and dr who. I didn't really like the LotR thing but I can understand why mega flagship products (marvel) will be that way. I just don't want anything other than mega flagship ones doing that.
Mirrodin, Shandalar, So many other cool plains, or even better, a new, fresh plane.
If Universes Beyond wasn't black bordered, I don't think anyone would have any problem with them. But now you've got One Ring and (WTF?) Orcish Bowmasters dominating Modern. No.
How is Orcs holding bows your wtf moment? Have you ever played Magic?
The fact the 2nd strongest card from LOTR isn't a legendary creature or land, but these dorks is ridiculous. Can't wait for MTGxMarvel, where the Infinity Gauntlet and... Bob from Hydra will warp the format. @@PleasantKenobi
I only started playing magic a little over a year ago in January of 2023. Since then I have made somewhere between 30-40 commander decks. At least 5, maybe 6 of them are LOTR themed decks. Personally, I really like the universes beyond sets and hope to see more IP's that I enjoy added over time. One that I hope eventually gets its own full set like LOTR did is Star Wars. If that ever happened I'd probably spend more than I should on it and wizards could do another 1 of 1 serialized card for the dark saber. I personally don't care much for serialized cards and have never bought a collectors box, let alone a collectors booster pack, but I see the appeal for those that do. That being said, I do see why some people aren't happy about universes beyond not only existing, but also expanding more and more. So far my favorite things from MTG specifically are dinosaurs and Phyrexians and I really hated how the story in MoM ended so quickly. I was hoping MoM would be the beginning of the war and the following set would be the conclusion, not everything being resolved in a single set. Side note: I really hope that for future sets like LOTR where it is a proper full set will be standard legal. I was so looking forward to building a Nazgul standard deck.
Make every set universe beyond!!!
no, i don't think i'm overreacting.
i too like many of the franchises brought in.
but identity is important for my immersion.
i stopped buying cards a few years ago (after 25 years of buying) and i am the sole deckbuilder in my circle of friends, so it's not a personal problem.
let me phrase it like this: i really liked andor. i watched it and i liked it.
but the overall watering down from the onslaught of things star wars tried to be over the last decade really hurt star wars overall.
and that is a bit sad.
Soon a turn of MTG is gonna sound like
“I tap my Charmander to deal 1 damage to your Severus Snape, and that proc’s my Twilight Sparkle to make a treasure token, and I’ll use that one mana to cast Peter Parker’s camera, getting a picture token. I’ll pass the turn”
Honestly the sooner chris cox gets sacked the better. 🤷♂️
Universes beyond is such a weird product. Its the epitome of "Not all products are for evwryone." I was super hyped for Lord of the Rings and was Geeking out over the references in the doctor who sets as the cards were spoiled. But honestly i genuinely dont care about fallout or Assassin's creed short of having a laugh that the one WOTC employee who has an Etrata commander deck ought to be sneaking in a few good things for her.
I don't know, if the cards are on the cards are fun. And thinking about how much joy the sets i loke brought me i cant really hate the line as a whole.
However much I love WH40k, when playing Magic the Gathering, I wanna play Magic. Not just mechanically, but thematically. Out of the Tombs is the only WH40k card I own. The Eldest Reborn is just okay, but it's my personal staple and I'll play it more than is truly reasonable. There's still a whole lot of Magic-Magic, both past and future, so I'll be perfectly fine for the coming while, but it's still... unexciting news, let's say.
One sneaky little pet peeve is borders. I genuinely love bordered cards, and consistency makes my brain happy.