It was really nice to see the reality of game based coaching vs the skills etc. I am a grass roots coach at U10 and inherited a mixed ability team that have limitations in physical and some with technical abilities but after a year of working with them, they have control of the games they’re playing now. Not finding the results yet but we’ve got to the point of ball manipulation and moving the ball quickly and off the ball running that has rapidly risen them from getting battered to actually being close in every game. Incredible to see their game develop so quickly.
Great episode, I totally understand where Rob is coming from... if your kid is probably a CM and has the potential to be world class... the best academies aren't in the UK, Spain and the Netherlands is where the academies are... the speed discussion... it's all about the kid mastering their own body mechanics... the earlier the better, but puberty is a big factor.
Too my mind England still haven’t produced the next “Paul Scholes” that person in the middle of the park pulling the strings! And how many kids have been in the best Academy’s since 6-7? Scholes never got into an academy until he was 13/14 I believe! Crazy when you think
Scholes was small and slow to compete he had to be more tactical. The problem is those types of players will be cut very young and won't be able to master tactics.
@@munaali840 no the point is he never got academy football until he was 14. So for all we talk about this and that coaching still to this day the little street fighter is still our best the country has produced in that position!
Pep did move to Germany when their youth teams were dominating youth international football, he moved to England when England were dominating youth international football
Yeh it's a mix of genetics and personality, different sport but i was a creative player who yearned for efficient shooting so as the levels got higher i took less risks
As a coach of U8s, reading tons about player development I’ve been wrestling with the concept of just focusing on ball mastery which is essential soloing skills. For me, the reason why in England we suddenly have a lot of 10s and wingers but no midfield controllers is a direct result of not focusing enough on passing and receiving early enough
Very interesting - my son u11 suffers because of this philosophy - passing and decision making is top notch but just isn't interested in doing 360 turns in a game
He’s right, Spain are struggling because they don’t produce a certain style of player. They got away with it before because xavi and iniesta etc were so so good but you’re not going to produce them over and over. Even back then they won lots of games 1 nil whereas Barcelona with messi were winning by 3,4 or 5 goals regularly.
My son, Tyler Parry was offered a pre-academy place with Peterborough United at the age of 6. At the time he was a wide attacking player naturally gifted with time and space, had a good football brain and scored plenty of goals at grassroots from the age of four. He turned them down to play grassroots football under a coach who believed the passing team ethic was the way forward. At the age of 9, he was scouted by Cambridge United and joined their Academy as an Under 10 They reverted him to play Centre Back. As a result as now an U12 he is classed as an Elite player, tough tackling and positional sense he has had since he was young. He is ball playing CB who gets plenty of assists and quite a few goals to his name. What I am trying to say is, a balance of both is the correct way forward or a player’s attributes should be enhanced by a coach.
Started as a forward. I was fast and could shoot, dribbling was only ok… couldn’t stand watching kids score and started messing around in goal. Had a knack for it and stayed.
I agree with Rob 100%. The one who has to move fast is not the player, is the ball. Dont ever forget that. A whole team running fast behind the ball is useless against a team who “moves” the ball fast , with less amount of waste of energy You can do it with intelligent moves and fast and accurate passes. No need to be the fastest running….
I think for all questions raise in this topic, the best solution for Acadmy is to take children from 12+ yrs old onwards, by that time you would be able to see a clear potential of young baller
@Sean Conlon true, but do you think Acadmy players at younger age have to be signed to use these facilities? Also many grassroots managers themselves are academy coaches these days, so level of coaching for most is still adequate I think, and most important you could give pirlo , Jorginho type of kids a level playing field to compete, only time would tell why took risks at very beginning, let them enjoy grassroots football a bit longer and other sports, grow them “organically” before they turn 12, so that the grassroots football foundation would be solid and Healthier, a lot of them would understand how the system works, mentally better prepared by then, I think the German have already started to take children only after 12 yrs old
Great discussions, I think U6-U9 should be about developing and learning all positions on the pitch so you have an overall better understanding of the game when your at U12 onwards and in a fixed position. I was a defender but if I was stuck playing there from U6 I would of been bored and might of left football, it was fun to play different positions as a kid. I can’t believe academy’s are looking at the height of the parents to try and predict how tall the child will be. My Dad is 6ft and Mum 5ft 4in, I am 6ft 5in!!???😂 also Usain Bolt’s parents were not 100m runners and he is the fastest person on the planet.
I get what your trying to say to a degree but would a football academy pick a player because one or both parents were footballs over a child who’s parents both don’t play sport and both children are equal ability?
@seanconlon7015 it's lazy to use parents as athletic profile - it'll be a factor but not an absolute truth - our DNA is millions of years old - why not do DNA tests to assess for speed, bone density, strength, liklihood of certain injuries etc
I agree with the absence of tactical and technical focus and lack of game understanding, but its hard to go and scout and not see the kid that is effecting the game at grassroots level. If this kid isn't effecting the game at grassroots is an academy the best place for him to develop? It's likely he would struggle against the other kids. Does he have to be in an academy at U7/8/9? Far better to continue to develop outside with the right training and when he starts to effect the game more, get picked up then. It's not like getting in an academy is a closed shop after U7. The English game has always been known for its physicality it is a requirement. I don't think the ball mastery skills/combinations is necessarily there to be used in the game precisely as it's taught. It's to be able to handle the ball technically as the kids get older. Ultimately we have some very talented kids in this country, if we were to also be taught game understanding, decision making, they would be unplayable.
The truth is if you're not in the academy by 10 you're even less likely to make it when you're already against the odds. 86% of Englands team were in the academy before 10... They will be training 3/4 times a week and even more when older. Playing grassroots with training once a week makes it almost impossible for you to catch up when you're already behind. They will get better and more efficient coaching in the academy. If your kid has a chance to get in the academy you take it as he might not get another chance.
Just to touch on the the stat of average speed of the team or whatever it is..... Everybody reaches their top speed at different levels so trying to correlate your league position on top speed when one player can reach it in 20 yards and the other takes 50 is irrelevant. If you're gonna use stats for research great but just an outright speed of a player is unimportant. Acceleration and 30 yard time is much more important than 100m time. Would be far more interesting to find out Real madrid have an average 30m time of 4 seconds compared to Real betis of 4.5...
ive watched this, and there was never a mention of 'what the boy wants!!!!' all you stated was what the coach feel the player may best best suited. Too many coaches do not actually know, hence the MASSIVE failure in stats of kids making it through!! its obviously not working, flawed system , just look at the stats. Change is needed.
It's not just the coaching it's the whole process. Players getting let go at 16/17 that could go on to become really good by 20 but never get the chance because the premier league teams buy too many foreign players. Only allow 5 foreign players per team and a lot more youngsters will be coming through and we'll have to start producing better players.
I have a 9 yr old boy. I’m guessing he’ll end up about 5’10” based on me and his mom. His club always plays him at forward, and he’s a great goal scorer. Should I get him striker training? Or will he more likely end up a winger or 10?
In Academies they dont have set positions, teach him the skills he needs to play all the forward positions, when hes older will find his position on the field. At 9 yrs their isn't cam position. Concentrate on technique, weak foot, shooting and ball mastery/skills.
@@bendenton580 Thanks. yes there isn't CAM exactly but they have midfielder. Should he play midfielder? Or is it ok if he's always the striker and the main goal scorer, which he is the best on the team. But the midfielder I think develops more technique since they touch the ball more.
@@nofurtherwest3474 they play 3v3 or 5v5 when they are kids there are no real positions just pass and attack and when you lose the ball defend. It's all about being on the ball getting as many touches as possible
Reload this conversation 2024/2025 edition. Look at the players coming through now Palmer, Curtis Jones, Angel Gomes, Bellingham, Foden, Gibbs white, Saka, Maddison, Grealish, Eze, Rogers, Nwaneri, Mikey moore, Tyler dibling, max dowman, list goes on and on. England are doing something right
English football has traditionally had this bias to physicality. It should go further towards decision making and technical ability. It doesn't have to go as far as Spain but at least go a bit more towards the center. The only reason for the success of English Clubs today has been in the influx of foreign players and coaches who bring these qualities. Otherwise, English clubs would not be winning a thing.
I see Sean’s point about genetic testing to find a best position fit. But also, there’s too much variability in genetics to know for certain how a kid might end up. Look at the kids of some top athletes. Some kids are great like the parent (eg tiger woods kid seems to have great talent) but often they don’t measure up, eg Michael Jordan’s kids. And we shouldn’t judge too soon. If you are looking for a perfect specimen of a kid, then literally the 2 best players of our generation would have been excluded. Messi because he had a growth deficiency and C Ronaldo because he had a heart ailment. I mean, how ironic that those two, with quite significant health issues went on the become who they were. Another GOAT is Maradona who was what 5’5”? But I do agree that you can look at the parents as one piece of the information that might inform the best position a kid might be suited to.
Am I the only one who raises issue with this predicted height stuff, he mentioned basketball players , have people seen some the parents if these basketball players? if you were to predict their height based on their parents alone , then a lot of them wouldnt make it pro, just because the parents aren’t tall doesnt mean there wasnt a great great great grandad or grandmother who wasn’t tall , let the kids talent speak for itself, some of the best footballers in the world were small players( Messi, Xavi, Modric, Iniesta, Maradonna, Pele to mention a few ) The English academy system is just too rigid in my opinion
What's crazy, the team with messi, Henry at Barcelona won all 3 cups. No other super Barcelona team has done that. Loool that has to be the greatest team. Football base on results not emotions
They have the best depth too. Bulk of the north and west african teams are also from France. Look at the Moroccan team. They had the most French trained players at the last two world cups
All this effort to focus on dribbling, and yet most of the top PL dribblers are still imported, like Doku, Cunha, Kudus, Ayew, Guimaraes, and Mitoma. And the number of english managers who'd won the league is still zero.
Rob get your page started! I think it'll help a lot of young players become more efficient on the pitch 💯
It was really nice to see the reality of game based coaching vs the skills etc. I am a grass roots coach at U10 and inherited a mixed ability team that have limitations in physical and some with technical abilities but after a year of working with them, they have control of the games they’re playing now. Not finding the results yet but we’ve got to the point of ball manipulation and moving the ball quickly and off the ball running that has rapidly risen them from getting battered to actually being close in every game. Incredible to see their game develop so quickly.
Thanks Rob. Please start the page, we can't wait.
You making so much sense. Thanks for the upload.
I love the “Spain need faster players!” argument…a team that have Inaki and Nico Williams and Adama Traore…what they need is a finisher.
When’s the next episode I need more ❤
Great episode, I totally understand where Rob is coming from... if your kid is probably a CM and has the potential to be world class... the best academies aren't in the UK, Spain and the Netherlands is where the academies are... the speed discussion... it's all about the kid mastering their own body mechanics... the earlier the better, but puberty is a big factor.
In Spain a kids first lesson is to receive , pass, move and receive !!!
Too my mind England still haven’t produced the next “Paul Scholes” that person in the middle of the park pulling the strings! And how many kids have been in the best Academy’s since 6-7? Scholes never got into an academy until he was 13/14 I believe! Crazy when you think
Scholes was small and slow to compete he had to be more tactical. The problem is those types of players will be cut very young and won't be able to master tactics.
@@munaali840 no the point is he never got academy football until he was 14. So for all we talk about this and that coaching still to this day the little street fighter is still our best the country has produced in that position!
Pep did move to Germany when their youth teams were dominating youth international football, he moved to England when England were dominating youth international football
Yeh it's a mix of genetics and personality, different sport but i was a creative player who yearned for efficient shooting so as the levels got higher i took less risks
As a coach of U8s, reading tons about player development I’ve been wrestling with the concept of just focusing on ball mastery which is essential soloing skills.
For me, the reason why in England we suddenly have a lot of 10s and wingers but no midfield controllers is a direct result of not focusing enough on passing and receiving early enough
Exactly, practice passing receiving and movement, I know which coach I would take my son to
Very interesting - my son u11 suffers because of this philosophy - passing and decision making is top notch but just isn't interested in doing 360 turns in a game
Same as mine
I agree with the guy with the cap it’s all focused on skills and beating players nobody focuses on defending or centre midfielders
He’s right, Spain are struggling because they don’t produce a certain style of player. They got away with it before because xavi and iniesta etc were so so good but you’re not going to produce them over and over. Even back then they won lots of games 1 nil whereas Barcelona with messi were winning by 3,4 or 5 goals regularly.
This aged well 😂
This aged well 😂
My son, Tyler Parry was offered a pre-academy place with Peterborough United at the age of 6. At the time he was a wide attacking player naturally gifted with time and space, had a good football brain and scored plenty of goals at grassroots from the age of four. He turned them down to play grassroots football under a coach who believed the passing team ethic was the way forward. At the age of 9, he was scouted by Cambridge United and joined their Academy as an Under 10 They reverted him to play Centre Back. As a result as now an U12 he is classed as an Elite player, tough tackling and positional sense he has had since he was young. He is ball playing CB who gets plenty of assists and quite a few goals to his name. What I am trying to say is, a balance of both is the correct way forward or a player’s attributes should be enhanced by a coach.
Started as a forward. I was fast and could shoot, dribbling was only ok… couldn’t stand watching kids score and started messing around in goal. Had a knack for it and stayed.
I agree with Rob 100%.
The one who has to move fast is not the player, is the ball. Dont ever forget that.
A whole team running fast behind the ball is useless against a team who “moves” the ball fast , with less amount of waste of energy
You can do it with intelligent moves and fast and accurate passes. No need to be the fastest running….
And btw, check Iniesta’s parents, Messi’s parents, or Ramos’ parents… short and fatty 😀
@@ctc3762 exactly watching parents too closely is really lazy and prejudiced
@@ctc3762 Rooney's parents?????
Good episode again 👊🏾👏🏾
I think for all questions raise in this topic, the best solution for Acadmy is to take children from 12+ yrs old onwards, by that time you would be able to see a clear potential of young baller
@Sean Conlon true, but do you think Acadmy players at younger age have to be signed to use these facilities? Also many grassroots managers themselves are academy coaches these days, so level of coaching for most is still adequate I think, and most important you could give pirlo , Jorginho type of kids a level playing field to compete, only time would tell why took risks at very beginning, let them enjoy grassroots football a bit longer and other sports, grow them “organically” before they turn 12, so that the grassroots football foundation would be solid and Healthier, a lot of them would understand how the system works, mentally better prepared by then, I think the German have already started to take children only after 12 yrs old
@seanconlon7015 didn't you start as a grass roots coach? Some grass roots coaching is better than academy coaching and sometimes better players also!
@@topsecret6995 grassroots depends where you live. Some are professional some are volunteers
Top episode like always
Hi Shaun, I would like my son to do some training sessions with you, how can I contact you?
How do you predict speed when they are older at a young age
Great discussions, I think U6-U9 should be about developing and learning all positions on the pitch so you have an overall better understanding of the game when your at U12 onwards and in a fixed position. I was a defender but if I was stuck playing there from U6 I would of been bored and might of left football, it was fun to play different positions as a kid.
I can’t believe academy’s are looking at the height of the parents to try and predict how tall the child will be. My Dad is 6ft and Mum 5ft 4in, I am 6ft 5in!!???😂 also Usain Bolt’s parents were not 100m runners and he is the fastest person on the planet.
I get what your trying to say to a degree but would a football academy pick a player because one or both parents were footballs over a child who’s parents both don’t play sport and both children are equal ability?
@seanconlon7015 it's lazy to use parents as athletic profile - it'll be a factor but not an absolute truth - our DNA is millions of years old - why not do DNA tests to assess for speed, bone density, strength, liklihood of certain injuries etc
I agree with the absence of tactical and technical focus and lack of game understanding, but its hard to go and scout and not see the kid that is effecting the game at grassroots level.
If this kid isn't effecting the game at grassroots is an academy the best place for him to develop? It's likely he would struggle against the other kids. Does he have to be in an academy at U7/8/9? Far better to continue to develop outside with the right training and when he starts to effect the game more, get picked up then. It's not like getting in an academy is a closed shop after U7.
The English game has always been known for its physicality it is a requirement. I don't think the ball mastery skills/combinations is necessarily there to be used in the game precisely as it's taught. It's to be able to handle the ball technically as the kids get older.
Ultimately we have some very talented kids in this country, if we were to also be taught game understanding, decision making, they would be unplayable.
The truth is if you're not in the academy by 10 you're even less likely to make it when you're already against the odds. 86% of Englands team were in the academy before 10... They will be training 3/4 times a week and even more when older. Playing grassroots with training once a week makes it almost impossible for you to catch up when you're already behind. They will get better and more efficient coaching in the academy. If your kid has a chance to get in the academy you take it as he might not get another chance.
Just to touch on the the stat of average speed of the team or whatever it is..... Everybody reaches their top speed at different levels so trying to correlate your league position on top speed when one player can reach it in 20 yards and the other takes 50 is irrelevant. If you're gonna use stats for research great but just an outright speed of a player is unimportant. Acceleration and 30 yard time is much more important than 100m time. Would be far more interesting to find out Real madrid have an average 30m time of 4 seconds compared to Real betis of 4.5...
ive watched this, and there was never a mention of 'what the boy wants!!!!' all you stated was what the coach feel the player may best best suited. Too many coaches do not actually know, hence the MASSIVE failure in stats of kids making it through!! its obviously not working, flawed system , just look at the stats. Change is needed.
It's not just the coaching it's the whole process. Players getting let go at 16/17 that could go on to become really good by 20 but never get the chance because the premier league teams buy too many foreign players. Only allow 5 foreign players per team and a lot more youngsters will be coming through and we'll have to start producing better players.
I have a 9 yr old boy. I’m guessing he’ll end up about 5’10” based on me and his mom.
His club always plays him at forward, and he’s a great goal scorer.
Should I get him striker training? Or will he more likely end up a winger or 10?
In Academies they dont have set positions, teach him the skills he needs to play all the forward positions, when hes older will find his position on the field. At 9 yrs their isn't cam position. Concentrate on technique, weak foot, shooting and ball mastery/skills.
@@bendenton580 Thanks. yes there isn't CAM exactly but they have midfielder. Should he play midfielder? Or is it ok if he's always the striker and the main goal scorer, which he is the best on the team.
But the midfielder I think develops more technique since they touch the ball more.
@@nofurtherwest3474 they play 3v3 or 5v5 when they are kids there are no real positions just pass and attack and when you lose the ball defend. It's all about being on the ball getting as many touches as possible
@@munaali840 my kids being playing 7v7 for 3 years. Next season they go to 9v9
At 7v7 usually the formation is 2-3-1
Reload this conversation 2024/2025 edition. Look at the players coming through now
Palmer, Curtis Jones, Angel Gomes, Bellingham, Foden, Gibbs white, Saka, Maddison, Grealish, Eze, Rogers, Nwaneri, Mikey moore, Tyler dibling, max dowman, list goes on and on.
England are doing something right
English football has traditionally had this bias to physicality. It should go further towards decision making and technical ability. It doesn't have to go as far as Spain but at least go a bit more towards the center. The only reason for the success of English Clubs today has been in the influx of foreign players and coaches who bring these qualities. Otherwise, English clubs would not be winning a thing.
I see Sean’s point about genetic testing to find a best position fit. But also, there’s too much variability in genetics to know for certain how a kid might end up.
Look at the kids of some top athletes. Some kids are great like the parent (eg tiger woods kid seems to have great talent) but often they don’t measure up, eg Michael Jordan’s kids.
And we shouldn’t judge too soon. If you are looking for a perfect specimen of a kid, then literally the 2 best players of our generation would have been excluded. Messi because he had a growth deficiency and C Ronaldo because he had a heart ailment. I mean, how ironic that those two, with quite significant health issues went on the become who they were.
Another GOAT is Maradona who was what 5’5”?
But I do agree that you can look at the parents as one piece of the information that might inform the best position a kid might be suited to.
I guess this Rob fellah knows more than the academies eh.
Am I the only one who raises issue with this predicted height stuff, he mentioned basketball players , have people seen some the parents if these basketball players? if you were to predict their height based on their parents alone , then a lot of them wouldnt make it pro, just because the parents aren’t tall doesnt mean there wasnt a great great great grandad or grandmother who wasn’t tall , let the kids talent speak for itself, some of the best footballers in the world were small players( Messi, Xavi, Modric, Iniesta, Maradonna, Pele to mention a few ) The English academy system is just too rigid in my opinion
What's crazy, the team with messi, Henry at Barcelona won all 3 cups. No other super Barcelona team has done that. Loool that has to be the greatest team. Football base on results not emotions
Erm……. Johan Cryuff …. Ajax method !
I think france produce more players than any country
They have the best depth too. Bulk of the north and west african teams are also from France. Look at the Moroccan team. They had the most French trained players at the last two world cups
All this effort to focus on dribbling, and yet most of the top PL dribblers are still imported, like Doku, Cunha, Kudus, Ayew, Guimaraes, and Mitoma. And the number of english managers who'd won the league is still zero.
Coaches don't teach dribbling because they never were good at it. How can you teach dribbling if you can't show that? It's simple
The Spain argument didn’t age well boys