1917 Vulcan Steam Locomotive: Reinstalling a Repaired Steam Chest on the Locomotive
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2022
- 1917 Vulcan Steam Locomotive: Reinstalling a Repaired Steam Chest on the Locomotive
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Was surprised, having taken such pains with the repair, to see the 'bowed' valve rod being put back without an attempt at straightening it.
I would guess that bow was intentionally added at some time to get a little more clearance at the wheel.
Beyond that look at the 2 or 3 degree angle between the flat sliding surface of the yoke and the yoke operating rod that projects through the packing gland. This has to be putting constant repetitive stress on the gland body which creates fatigue in the casting and is the likely reason that this gland area has already failed twice. The operating rod and the sliding surfaces of the valve need to be co-planar. Seems like this is a design flaw, or maybe introduced with the last repair. What does the left side cylinder, steam chest, operating rod arrangement look like?
The only thing i would've done differently (and mainly because the old guy i help every once in a moon cycle does this every time the chest is out) is to do a super light lap of the valve and seat. Like polishing paste light. He does this every time, and he's been around since the continents were still fused, so he must know something.
Side note, every time i see the loco on the channel i'm happy. It's on my bucket list to see when i'm back in US.
The valve at the steam chest front is a snifting or drifting valve. It serves as a vacuum breaker when the engine is not working steam like when coasting. The idea is to prevent cinders or other debris from potentially being sucked into the cylinders from the smoke box.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snifting_valve
Very nice, wouldn’t mind additional 5 min length of video with the test drive.
Keith I think you mixed up the exhaust and inlet ports. The steam from the regulator/throttle valve is comming into the steam chest by the channels on the front of the chest. It pushed the slide valve onto its seat. The 3 ports are the inlet front, exhaust and inlet rear. Otherwise the steam would lift the valve from the seat, even with the springs. The bushing on the slide valve rod that should keep the packing from getting inside the steam chest is totally worn out and should be replaced. These should have a change gear fit on the rod, now it is a 100 yards throw fit ;-)
I was wondering that, seemed strange the packing was the only thing supporting the valve yoke and keeping it straight. Probably why it broke, they have to keep cranking on the packing to keep it sealed
Keith, please tell us there are young people there who are learning this trade from you and the museum staff. These historical machines deserve to live as long as there are skilled tradesmen capable of preserving them. Thanks from St Marys, GA 🇺🇸
In my experience, every operating railroad museum has young people learning the how and why of steam locomotive operation and maintenance.
I was in the U S Navy,and worked on 1200 psi boiler.The boilers and related machines were a lot of work.
I believe it's RTV not RVT. Stands for
Room Temperature Vulanization
I believe it is Vulcanization, not vulanization, as long as we are nitpicking.
I love Keith ... but that was driving me CRAZY !!!
@@ianbutler1983 you do better driving at 75 with fat thumbs 👍
Brilliant repair! Great to see these old beasts still in action!
Maybe it's different for a steam chest but I learned that any kind of pressure head is installed with bolt/stud torque starting in the center of the edges and tighten the bolts in a cross pattern moving outward toward the corners with the corner bolts always being the last ones tightened, the reverse of how this one was tightened.
I was looking to see if someone would correct hom on that point. The idea is that if you tighten the outer corners first there is strsin put on things taking out the bow caused by gasket compression, but by doing centre first the head can still spread. Whether this is a real problem is another matter but it is considered best practice.
The theory is there, but if youre careful and torque them down in several steps, you can really go in any order. Im super agro about stuff like this too but this I would have used an electric impact and throttled the nuts on slowly in steps. That socket sure was ornery coming off those nuts.
I was looking forward to seeing a few minutes of it running!!! 😀 Oh well, it was fun to see the repair done. Thank you!!
He has a video driving it! Go look it up on the channel search.
@@aserta Cool. Let me look. Thank you 👍🏼
@@aserta found it!
th-cam.com/video/EgLRSkRioRA/w-d-xo.html
Normally there is the full steam pressure inside the valve chest. This keeps the valve pushed down to the sealing surface. I think this is the deal in this case also. Following this logic the farthermost slots are steam input and the center slot is the exhaust.
I completely agree with you. Mr. Keith has the steam input and output reversed.
I was thinking that, but thought maybe this one’s unusual?
@@williamdodd8660 I don't think so. The steam pressure will blow the valve of the seat. Those puny springs won't hold the valve down against 170 PSI steam pressure.
When the steam is on the outside, the steam pressure will push the valve down on the seat.
I wasn't going to say anything, but after you mentioned "RVT" for the 3rd time, I had to. It's RTV, which stands for Room Temperature Vulcanization.
For those that don't know, there's a sequence In tightening bolts on this steam chest. It's similar to the way a cylinder head is torqued down. This helps to prevent the top from warping from uneven tightening. Tire shops use a technique like this to ensure proper tightening of the lug nuts.
Lots of other things here make you realize Keith doesn't do this for a living .....
Start in the middle and work your way out, just like a automotive head is how i would do it. Thanks for your time. Pete from South Carolina
Thanks for the video, Keith! Great to see an old locomotive being cared for with such love & attention to detail!
One quibble - you keep referring to RVT, when the correct abbreviation is RTV, short for "room temperature vulcanizing", a name for the then-new {mid-1940s} silicone rubber compounds that would cure without added heat... That name has stuck, although most folks, including myself, have migrated to using "silicone sealer" or "bathtub caulk" as a more understandable name.
I'd never give him a hard time about that -- there are too many words in the world not to get some of them mixed up once in a while! For some of us, it's a hobby!
Anyway... I think RVT is really RTV specially formulated to use on your motorhome. :-)
I enjoyed this entire series. I guess I would have liked to have seen a short shot the locomotive in action, focusing on the repaired section.
The repaired seam looks awesome! Invisible to the layman's eye
Love the old trains. A lot of work by all the volunteers that work on this equipment. Thanks very much for the work you do and for sharing this with us.
Keith, not too long ago, I picked up a junior size oil can like the one you're using in this video. It was found at a scrap yard in good working condition.
In Germany, too, there are clubs that keep the old steam locomotives running. Attempts are made to raise money through events and special trips. But if at some point the big test by the TÜV has to be made, a lot of money often has to be invested in order to get permission for further operation. There is only one workshop in Germany that can carry out major repairs to steam locomotives. But with the necessary money €$£, they can screw a new steam locomotive to an old locomotive number plate. In the event that the old locomotive is only suitable for scrap.
Would documentation/patterns be created from the worn parts prior to them being scrapped or otherwise being retired to museum display?
Thank you very much sir. Now my childhood doubt cleared. I always wondered about how the smoke comes out with force and rhythmically like chuk chuk... Now I know the connection. 😀
Back in action!
Might need some of your machines to make a new one!
Shouldn't the copper gaskets be annealed before reuse? Learned that from an old boilermaker.
Soft drawn electrical wire is annealed. Hard drawn copper wire is not. Keith probably used soft drawn.
Enjoyed every moment. Thank you. 🇺🇸🇬🇧👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🤜🏻🤜🏻🚂🚂🚂🚂
Keith one trick I learned that I found on another tubers video was to wrap the RTV (or really any metal cased tube) in electrical tape before you use it. It tends to help with blowouts and prevents creases which eventually result in blowouts of the tube while you're trying to squeeze the snot out of it to get the sealant out =)
the good stuff will come with a key to roll the tube up :)
The Museum is truly fortunate to have your expertise!
Impressive repair Kieth, just like a pro.
South Georgia, breathing would make me sweat. I can't imagine doing that sort of work in deep summer.
Have you seen the Top Gear episode, where they have a race between a car, a motorcycle and a steam train, from London to Edinburgh?
Jeremy explains that steam trains are phenomenally reliable, and can go *140,000 miles* between major services.
Thanks, I was wondering mean time to failure since most seem failure to maintain lube, firebox, and boiler cleaning related...or track related.
I'm surprised that you didn't straighten the bent rod after going to all the trouble of repairing the chest.
That would change the valve timing , some were bent ever so slightly (if done wright) to trim timing
@@robineanes1489 The timing is adjustable. The rod was designed to be straight, and it looks like someone overweight has stood on it. I expect the gland has been overtightened at some stage. A bent rod meeting a strong resistance will flex and cause the damage we saw in the previous video. A straight rod operating a moderate load would stay straight.
Like Keith said, this engine has plenty of things that could use some work. He did what he needed to get it running for the weekend, and that was already more work than he originally hoped. He also said they plan on doing more comprehensive work when they get the new casting done. It's all a matter of managing priorities. Remember, Keith is a volunteer, and he only has so much time for this stuff versus the rest of his life's chores.
Thank you for posting
Good job to return the Vulcan to running status. I'm 80 and I need lots of maintenance too.
1:16 - That repair is likely to last until some new guy is taking care of what you do; nice job.
Thanks a bunch Keith...
Shoe🇺🇸
Very nice professional work, Keith. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks for sharing!
Nice to see the old girl fixed.
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.👍👀
That was very interesting video. Thanks
Great to see that big engine back to running!
GREAT job Brother Keith :)
Excellent work
Do you re - anneal the copper gaskets before installing ?
Agreed, the steam engines I work on, we always anneal copper gaskets.
RTV is the modern equivalent of Permatex non hardening gasket sealer, gooood stuff.
AWW, I'M LIKE NUMBER 2...
I suspect that when steam was the motve force that constant minor repairs were required on an ongoing basis. When I was a kid steam locomotives were still in regular use so we saw them all the time on the NYC lines.
Sounds like just about every piece of heavy equipment.
Very nice video, thanks for shareing. :o)
You can actually buy rectangular copper wire or bus bar strips.
"oil never hurt a steam engine" sounds like a T-shirt Kieth
Great video and repairs Keith. I noticed the valve rod was banana shaped when you were screwing it back into the steam valve stem. Is it possible the bend in that rod contributed to the cracking of the stuffing box area or is it formed that way for clearance during operation?
Thanks for sharing.
Nice! Great repair on a piece of History... 🙂
Getting all steamed up!
lovely keith just wish i would have seen you driving ...never mind well done
I originally used RTV on the cylinder heads of the J&L 58. One day one of the cylinder cocks would not close and after I took it apart found that a chunk of the RTV had lodged itself in the cock. How it got there I don't know but I no longer use RTV.
Due to pitting on our steam dome the copper gasket will not in itself seal the joint with the lid, so I have gotten into the habit of coating the sealing surface with a thin film of Expando pipe joint compound. That fills in the pits and creates a good seal.
Agreed RTV is the cause of many failures, it blocks oilway's and waterway's, used sparingly ok but, the bigger the gob the better the job ....
Annealing copper gaskets is always a good idea.
@@chrisjohnson4165 I have been using the same gasket every year. Just heat it up with the torch, let it cool and its ready for another year. Love copper gaskets.
@@YoungstownSteelHeritage Copper anneals best by heating to cherry red and quenching in water. I love copper gaskets too.
Don't slop it around and it will work fine. Any body that has ever used the stuff finds this out!
great fix
The museum is VERY fortunate to have you on board. Do you need to retorque the steam chest nuts after it has gone through a heat cycle like on IC engines?
You might do a little modification to the casting when you have a new steam chest cast. In between the packing nut flange and the steam chest, convert the round portion to a hexagon, with the top and bottom flat being level with the top and bottom gasket flange of the steam chest. The packing flange is supported in the horizontal direction, but not in the vertical direction, and you also have to deal with the bolt holes for the steam chest right behind the packing nut flange. Using a hexagon pattern will support the packing nut flange in the vertical direction, while still allowing for room for the bolt holes in the steam chest. This should prevent cracking of the packing nut flange in the future.
Hindsight is 20-20.
I notice you didn't anneal the copper strip, to help it mould to the surface better?
love your blog . im from australia a dedicated steam fan but why did you not include adiabadiac expansion in your description of steam power?
What impressed me the most is how close the fit is on the covers to the studs, Sure was some nice work so long ago. Dave.
That shaft had a definite bend to it that was obvious when you both were screwing it in.
Thanks for preserving a part of American History.
When that valve is actuated it looks like the rod travels in an arc rather than a simple sliding motion. If it has say a 1" vertical travel and that is a constant motion as the valve actuates the crack is likely from that motion. The bend in the rod isn't helping that situation. I could also see where the studs on the sides of the packing box might be that way to allow the rod to somewhat float vertically to lower the stress.
Nah. The rod isn't it, this one broke because of the studs being over tightened. The flask design (the neck) is a really sh!tty one that's meant to break (weakest link). Personally, i'd make the rod weak and make a full box.
I'm of the opinion that this box may not be original to the locomotive. The insides are way too rough to be original (having seen other components of this loco in the past). Some hackery might've been done in the name of preservation. Keith would know best, he has the plans.
Would it not make sense to anneal the copper gaskets to soften for a better seal?
He said they made it out of electrical wire. Plenty soft for that application!
@@paulcopeland9035 copper work hardens.
It would of been good to see the engine in operation Kieth.
Nice engineer's cap 👌
Kinda think just standing in the shade would make me sweat is south Georgia.
I don't understand. Why didn't you show it running?
I'm pretty sure that would make me sweat in southern California, too.
That there is one interesting video
You should do a video on starting up and driving that thing. If you tagged it right the add revenue would by you a new car I bet. There are epic numbers of train geeks all around the world.
Nice job. Will they re torque the bolts also?
I always wondered what a slide valve in the steam chest looked like.
Now I know.
You might want to look at Keith Appleton channel,he builds small model steam engines.He explain how stuff works with them.
I believe that you use the wrong sequence and tightening your bolts on the lid on your steam chest you should’ve started it to center bolts and work to the outside that’s usual and customary procedures so that you don’t end up with a band and end up moving something
KEITH, TELL EVERYBODY HELLO, GREAT JOB, GREAT VIDEO...SEE YOU WHEN...
Great job done. Over years I heard steam locomotives sounds like the one side is stronger than the other, now I realise its the exhaust I am hearing and theres a few combinations possible, is this an indication of the timing-?
Railroads had a rule of thumb that steam locomotives needed one hour of maintenance for every hour of run time. This repair showed why that was true.
Looks like ole Dave is a key man.
If you apply anti-sieze between the nuts and the surface they contact you will lose less torque due to reduced friction
I wanted to see it running...
me to
electrical ground rods are not copper, theyre copper-clad steel.. if that matters
I was kinda thinking it was more about the heavy connecting wire than the ground rod itself, which seems like it would be huge compared to that little slot. I think the wire would fit just about right, and would be softer to hammer into place. Just speculation on my part.
Keith, since you lubricated the clamping studs, I was wondering if your torque target was reduced 20-30% from a dry torque target?
I came across this in a machine's manual while doing maintenance at work, and subsequently finding it in engineering references.
nice! (Number 3)
I would have thought you would just hook up some air from your compressor to the engine's steam system to test for leaks. Ron W4BIN
You used a oil ring with the silicone to seal it up did it have a rubber oil ring when it was built or did they use something else like a strip of leather or cork as the gasket? Just curious thanks for sharing you are a very talented person I wish I had half your skill
Crush seals are an old idea and first used with high pressure steam. Metal softness along with leathers open cell structure made a great combo in the past. RTV takes the leathers place. Copper, half-hard brass, some of the harder lead alloy types worked well also.
Keith, do yall use the graphite infused packing on the packing glands?
Hey Keith, do you guys have any plans on restoring the second locomotive?
Disappointed we didn’t get to see it run
Would a little oil in torque wrench socket help?
Very instructive, though I thought Dave got a rather raw deal....
Does that bent yoke present any problems?
How come there is no need for washers (and lock washers on top of washers) underneath the 12 main nuts on top of the steam coffin?
Do you call them gaskets in America?
On this side of the pond, they're called gaskets on internal combustion engines, but on steam engines, they called "joints".
I wanted to see the engine run.
I don't think you ever mentioned the amount of pressure in that engine when it is running, nor what the packing actually was/is. Is it packed with Oakum or something else, or do you use some modern substitute?
on ships we used wire inserted graphite packing but that was for 600 lb steam. i think this loco only goes to 150 lb
Sure wish I wasn't so far away lol
I think it's called RTV
what kind of steam pressures do these engines run ?
What is the packing made of?