Thank you so much for recording and publishing this lecture. I’m representing a client in the purchase of a new construction home and this serves helpful in estimating the cost requirement for outfitting a home for natural gas.
this helped a lot. im in trade school and struggle with this sizing.. and manifolds are different than that too! thanks for helping me understand. hope i pass the test tomorrow!
Sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the login password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me
This was a fantastic video for me. I own a duplex home with separate gas meters. My house has a 95% furnace, gas stove, gas dryer, gas fireplace and tankless hot water heater which services both units (my duplex & my apartment). I want to add a basement gas stove for canning. Now I can understand what will be expected in cost/labor/work even before I contact someone for a bid. Next step is determining what’s there, like my appliance btu, of existing pipes and length from meter.
Thanks for this video. My question is, looking at the drawing plan view, dont you need to include the vertical run as well? What I mean is gas pipe running inside the ceiling space horizontally and goes down vertically to serve ..say a oven or fryer. And also dont you need to include the 'elbows equivalent length' as well. Thanks
Yes. You need to include the stub out to the meter and the riser. and, if you're going down inside a wall that must be calculated, also. It's "total distance" But doesn't include the gas flexes or the arc of fittings.
In these tables the fittings do not have to be counted, as the table already accounts for "a reasonable number of fittings", yes you would also need to add the vertical sections, I just find the examples less confusing without verticals. High pressure tables in Ontario Code do not have allowance for fittings, so you must add the fitting resistance when sizing 5, 10, or 20 PSI examples
@@gregtaylor1341 Thank you Greg. im in toronto canada. one question is can you have 2 gas meter with 2 gas lines serving one commercial unit? (restaurant) or it has to be just 1 gas meter with 1 gas line?
If you use a table based on 1" pressure drop to size your piping system you should not have more than 1" difference in pressure between the gas meter outlet and the furthest appliance (with all appliances in the system operating at full capacity)
I have a situation where I need some advice, my fire pit is 240k btu and 60 ft away from gas meter . My plumber installed 1/2” pipe all the way and fire pit is not getting sufficient gas due to smaller gas pipe size and recommend size is 1” for 60ft long . My patio is already built so it’s not possible to replace the pipe all the way and only option is to replace 50’ pipe with 1”and keep rest of the 10’ as 1/2” . Is it going to work provide enough gas for fire pit?
hi greg I am student in George brown college and I writing tssa test soon could you explain high pressure sizing procedure of natural gas with fitting and without fitting over 2 psig thank you
Hey I'm going to George Brown right now! How was the TSSA test for you? I'm in my first semester right now and gas pipe sizing is kicking my ass (as you could imagine what brought me here)
Yes, it will supply more gas but the appliance does not need it. The larger the diameter of the pipe, the more money it will cost you. No need to spend the extra money!
i have a bsme. this might take some iteration. right now it looks like pressure at nodes or something. i am merely trying to add a 30 foot length for an old , small gas kiln/furnace i just got. pipe roughness. usually assume turbulent flow. high reynolds number. the 1/4 inch copper tubing with x roughness will probably break down the pressure to a point where it is noticeable. gas company/county? maybe old shutoff valve. its called fluid mechanics/book. with tables. large number arithmetic with 10^4 etc. reynolds number = v d / u
Can you do one with venting furnace n water heater. Sometime it confuses me cause theres so many tables you gotta look for. Gotta find the dam right chart to size it correctly
@@gregtaylor1341 I'm currently in college at mohawk doing their utilities program, and all your posted videos are very useful. thank you for posting these. This helped me understand it quite a bit better.
Not a professional - advanced lifelong student of all things residential construction. I rebuild inexpensive 100 year old homes to rent with new wiring, plumbing , furnaces and gas lines in the process. Always ran 1" pipe everywhere so as not to think about it, downsizing right before the appliance to 1/2". Watched your video as I'm concerned about installing my first tankless water heater (160,000Btu) along with the usual - gas range, fireplace, dryer and 60,000Btu furnace.
why does everyone do this charting with the highest BTU unit at the end of the longest line? what happens with the highest BTU unit being on only say 10' of pipe and half way between the regulator and the end you have say 50' going to only a very tiny unit? i dont see why you need to size the LMR for 55" when you dont have a high demand for that 50' run, only a high demand for the 10' run.
Just an FYI, you are not sizing the appliance drops to the national standards. You're main fuel run (trunk lines) using the longest run method is correct and accurate. But when you're dealing with drops your length should be calculated from the shut off of the appliance to the gas meter ( I believe your misunderstanding the code as written or missed that section in the instructions, which is understandable because it's kind of hidden). By using your method a drop for a 100,000 btu load would be the same size whether the appliance was up by the meter or a mile away. The mile away drop would be correct but the one up by the meter would be vastly oversized wasting time and money. Hope some of this information helps, stay safe & keep learning.
Hi Bob: I agree with your observation but I will offer that this is the procedure we teach here in Ontario Canada, as our governing authority creates exams using the above taught method. Thanks Greg
@@gregtaylor1341 , thanks for your reply and it is completely understandable why you're governing authority would want it taught that way, especially on residential applications. Thanks again, regards Bob
I might be in the wrong place here. I'm trying to split the ng line going into my water heater to add and hook up a dryer (3ft away). I'm good with diy stuff but never had gas before. Alternative is to sell our gas dryer and buy an electric
Sir unless your a licensed plumber/gasfitter , you should not attempt to gas fit yourself as diy, pay a pro that way the work is done right the first time and the inspector oks it 👍 safety first
If plumbers weren't months out and giving ballpark estimates around $1,000 i would. I hadn't realized there is already a T fitting after a shutoff valve going into the water heater. So all i'm doing is connecting the dryer to a capped pipe 3' away. I know its the internet but there is TONS of info out there for people doing it themselves. I'll be using yellow teflon tape and bubble testing all fittings. Since i will be doing it myself, any other safety tips?
I understand your frustration with cost and time frame but unfortunately if you DIY this project and your house catches fire or explodes for any reason your insurance company may not pay for damages
@@gregtaylor1341 appreciate the concern. This ended up being even easier than i thought. Just attached two ends 4 ft apart with a flexible hose. Bubble tested the shizz out of it, stuck my face by each fitting for a long time smelling.
I am currently working on the supply of medical gas in hospitals and I came across this video. Love from South Africa 🇿🇦
This is by far the fastest way to size a gasline system. Stay in the LMR column always and work backwards per appliance. Easy
What is the LMR?
Oh , longest measured run
Owner-Builder plumbing a house for gas. That was a clear and concise presentation of the use of the code tables. Thanks!
Thank you so much for recording and publishing this lecture. I’m representing a client in the purchase of a new construction home and this serves helpful in estimating the cost requirement for outfitting a home for natural gas.
this helped a lot. im in trade school and struggle with this sizing.. and manifolds are different than that too! thanks for helping me understand. hope i pass the test tomorrow!
Sorry to be offtopic but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot the login password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me
Absolute clarity! Thank you so much for creating this video
Glad you enjoyed it!
I always wondered why there is a bigger pipe only for a certain length. Also very informative and great video and easy to understand thabk you 👍
He stuttered once. Very clear message. Super helpful. Glad he did like 4 of the answers too
Glad you enjoyed it!
Enjoyed the video, easy to follow
This was a fantastic video for me. I own a duplex home with separate gas meters. My house has a 95% furnace, gas stove, gas dryer, gas fireplace and tankless hot water heater which services both units (my duplex & my apartment). I want to add a basement gas stove for canning. Now I can understand what will be expected in cost/labor/work even before I contact someone for a bid. Next step is determining what’s there, like my appliance btu, of existing pipes and length from meter.
Perfect
Thank you so much,Greg. Your teachching is very helpful.
Awesome video thank you!
Great Video sir. Well explained
Great instructor
Thanks Greg. You are one of the best teachers who taught me
. the video is very helpful. keep going. Saleh
I thank you very much sir!
You saved my day!
God bless you!
Happy to help
Hey Greg, thanks for the video helped me understand a lot more, wish I had you had a teacher LOL,
Cheers
Glad to help, where do you (or did you) attend school?
Nice! So helpful
Wow, this is extremely helpful
Great info. Thanks
Great illustration
Great video, thanks for sharing 👍
If there are 2 regulators, do you use the longest run from the second regulator or still measure from the meter?
Very well taught. Thank you so much
Excellent video!
Thank you very much!
Very good!!
THANK YOU DUDE!!!!!!!!
why you didn't add the elbow for sizing
Excellent information Thanks
good video thanks
Made sense to me (which isn't easy). Good job.
Thanks for this video. My question is, looking at the drawing plan view, dont you need to include the vertical run as well? What I mean is gas pipe running inside the ceiling space horizontally and goes down vertically to serve ..say a oven or fryer. And also dont you need to include the 'elbows equivalent length' as well. Thanks
Yes. You need to include the stub out to the meter and the riser. and, if you're going down inside a wall that must be calculated, also. It's "total distance" But doesn't include the gas flexes or the arc of fittings.
In these tables the fittings do not have to be counted, as the table already accounts for "a reasonable number of fittings", yes you would also need to add the vertical sections, I just find the examples less confusing without verticals. High pressure tables in Ontario Code do not have allowance for fittings, so you must add the fitting resistance when sizing 5, 10, or 20 PSI examples
@@gregtaylor1341 Thank you Greg. im in toronto canada. one question is can you have 2 gas meter with 2 gas lines serving one commercial unit? (restaurant) or it has to be just 1 gas meter with 1 gas line?
Great help, thank you sir!
Excellent explanation Greg
THANK YOU!
How do you determine system pressure(water column)?
Call the gas company or the dept of building and safety.
Could you make a video on Pipe sizing with Branch runs ? I had branch runs on my g3 exam but never was showed it at Durham College.....
Clear explanation of gas piping lay out on btu's
Glad you liked it
What does it mean when it says "based on 1 in wc pressure drop" does that assume 1 in wc pressure drop per 100' of pipe or what? Thank you.
If you use a table based on 1" pressure drop to size your piping system you should not have more than 1" difference in pressure between the gas meter outlet and the furthest appliance (with all appliances in the system operating at full capacity)
Great info! Noob question and perhaps this was answered at the end, but could 1" pipe be ran for the entire system? thanks
Yes it can, oversizing piping is fine
Hi, how would I know what the btuh capacity of the gas meter is capable of producing?
Typically a residential gas meter is rated for 250,000 Btu, larger capacity gas meters can be requested from the utility
I have a situation where I need some advice, my fire pit is 240k btu and 60 ft away from gas meter . My plumber installed 1/2” pipe all the way and fire pit is not getting sufficient gas due to smaller gas pipe size and recommend size is 1” for 60ft long . My patio is already built so it’s not possible to replace the pipe all the way and only option is to replace 50’ pipe with 1”and keep rest of the 10’ as 1/2” . Is it going to work provide enough gas for fire pit?
I am not sure if that will work, I think your plumber needs to return to school
hi greg I am student in George brown college and I writing tssa test soon could you explain high pressure sizing procedure of natural gas with fitting and without fitting over 2 psig thank you
Hey I'm going to George Brown right now! How was the TSSA test for you? I'm in my first semester right now and gas pipe sizing is kicking my ass (as you could imagine what brought me here)
For example if you have all 3/4 pipe without reducing will it work great or better to reduce for power ?
Yes, it will supply more gas but the appliance does not need it. The larger the diameter of the pipe, the more money it will cost you. No need to spend the extra money!
i have a bsme. this might take some iteration. right now it looks like pressure at nodes or something. i am merely trying to add a 30 foot length for an old , small gas kiln/furnace i just got. pipe roughness. usually assume turbulent flow. high reynolds number. the 1/4 inch copper tubing with x roughness will probably break down the pressure to a point where it is noticeable. gas company/county? maybe old shutoff valve. its called fluid mechanics/book. with tables. large number arithmetic with 10^4 etc. reynolds number = v d / u
Bravo 👏🏼 bravo 👏🏼 excellen 🙌🏼 vídeo
Thanks. I'm a journryman Plumber trying to get more into the estimating and sizing area
Can you do one with venting furnace n water heater. Sometime it confuses me cause theres so many tables you gotta look for. Gotta find the dam right chart to size it correctly
James Xiong I will do a video like that in the near future, do you attend school, if so where? Just trying to see who the audience is
I will add a video upcoming that walks through these steps
Once the College year is over I have more time to comment and add content
thnks
Where can I find those tables?
CSA B149.1-20 Natural Gas and Propane Installation Code Book in Canada
Yep, I told one of my apprentices that we size it backwards and he gave me a deer in the headlights stare. LOL
I size from either direction, most Instructors start at the far end so I usually teach it this way to minimize confusion
Outstanding explanation
How is "Pressure Drop" determined, different charts have different values of pressure drop.
Joe Brewer pressure drop is always given, it’s a code requirement to only have a certain amount of pressure drop within a system
How do i take this class
apply at Lambton College
Good video thanks
thank you
If only my professor taught half as well as he does..
I’m always interested in who is watching, please let me know if your currently in the field or a student
I own a residential heating and air conditioning company and I teach at Fanshawe College
@@gregtaylor1341 I'm currently in college at mohawk doing their utilities program, and all your posted videos are very useful. thank you for posting these. This helped me understand it quite a bit better.
44 years a Plumber. Still working.
Sudbury ontario. Finalky allowed to go back to school to write my final. Making sure i still remeber how to do this. Great video 👍
Not a professional - advanced lifelong student of all things residential construction. I rebuild inexpensive 100 year old homes to rent with new wiring, plumbing , furnaces and gas lines in the process. Always ran 1" pipe everywhere so as not to think about it, downsizing right before the appliance to 1/2". Watched your video as I'm concerned about installing my first tankless water heater (160,000Btu) along with the usual - gas range, fireplace, dryer and 60,000Btu furnace.
why does everyone do this charting with the highest BTU unit at the end of the longest line? what happens with the highest BTU unit being on only say 10' of pipe and half way between the regulator and the end you have say 50' going to only a very tiny unit? i dont see why you need to size the LMR for 55" when you dont have a high demand for that 50' run, only a high demand for the 10' run.
The reason we use the 55' LMR is to ensure that all appliances have the minimum gas flow required when all appliances are running
I use pex for my gas lines!
Thats awesome and I'm sure approved right????
Just an FYI, you are not sizing the appliance drops to the national standards. You're main fuel run (trunk lines) using the longest run method is correct and accurate. But when you're dealing with drops your length should be calculated from the shut off of the appliance to the gas meter ( I believe your misunderstanding the code as written or missed that section in the instructions, which is understandable because it's kind of hidden). By using your method a drop for a 100,000 btu load would be the same size whether the appliance was up by the meter or a mile away. The mile away drop would be correct but the one up by the meter would be vastly oversized wasting time and money. Hope some of this information helps, stay safe & keep learning.
Hi Bob: I agree with your observation but I will offer that this is the procedure we teach here in Ontario Canada, as our governing authority creates exams using the above taught method.
Thanks Greg
@@gregtaylor1341 , thanks for your reply and it is completely understandable why you're governing authority would want it taught that way, especially on residential applications.
Thanks again, regards Bob
I might be in the wrong place here. I'm trying to split the ng line going into my water heater to add and hook up a dryer (3ft away). I'm good with diy stuff but never had gas before. Alternative is to sell our gas dryer and buy an electric
Sir unless your a licensed plumber/gasfitter , you should not attempt to gas fit yourself as diy, pay a pro that way the work is done right the first time and the inspector oks it 👍 safety first
If plumbers weren't months out and giving ballpark estimates around $1,000 i would. I hadn't realized there is already a T fitting after a shutoff valve going into the water heater. So all i'm doing is connecting the dryer to a capped pipe 3' away. I know its the internet but there is TONS of info out there for people doing it themselves. I'll be using yellow teflon tape and bubble testing all fittings. Since i will be doing it myself, any other safety tips?
I understand your frustration with cost and time frame but unfortunately if you DIY this project and your house catches fire or explodes for any reason your insurance company may not pay for damages
@@gregtaylor1341 appreciate the concern. This ended up being even easier than i thought. Just attached two ends 4 ft apart with a flexible hose. Bubble tested the shizz out of it, stuck my face by each fitting for a long time smelling.
need to account for tees and elbows
Not if supply pressure is below 2 PSI, our tables have fittings included if below 2 PSI
75000 divide by presume 1000 btu per hrs = sq feet btu/hrs, so furthest furnace = 75 sq ft per hrs, need 1/2 " size metallic pipe.
How far from the regulator is the furnace???
No one ever explains the pressure drop. How do you know what the pressure drop is?
You measure the pressure drop, or use the correct tables to hopefully size pipe and tube systems to not exceed allowable pressure drop