Baldur's Gate: Durlag's Tower - Part 5: Dungeon Master's Guide - Design Club
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2025
- Learn how game designers make dungeons by looking at one of the greatest teaching examples in gaming history: Durlag's Tower from Baldur's Gate. Grab the game and play along: bit.ly/2c8wgeX
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We want to see your analysis of Floor 2 of Durlag's Tower! If you make a response video, share the link here. LINKS ONLY. We want to be able to find your videos! If you just want to comment, please start a new thread.
P.S. If you like this idea and want to make sure these videos get visibility, please thumbs up the comment so TH-cam sorts it to the top!
Just to be clear: I am DELETING replies that aren't links to a video. I don't want to see this comment thread flooded with irrelevant comments and making it hard for people's videos (when they're made) to be seen. So far, there haven't been any video links posted, but I am continuing to actively monitor the thread so that any videos which do get posted are shared with James for review. -Soraya
Damn, I couldn't even think of what designers thoughts were on making these xD
Extra Credits A year layer this is still empty...
Yup They seem to think other pepole make videos like this but out side of Mark Brown Deconstructing zelda dungeons I dont know of any channels of decent quality that do this kind of thing
Are you thinking what I'm thinking too?
Durlag's Tower analysis was amazing :), I enjoy Design Club much more than the regular Extra Credits, but it has very few episodes, I supposed that they are harder to make. Having 5 days in a row a design club video was a mind-blow. If you can bring us more design club (even if it's not daily, just more than the regular design club), please do it.
I second this. More design club plz. and also show us some examples of bad practice plz.
We need more Design Club days!
Extra credits is great, but this is even better, which is amazing.
+ bump
I like the all-in-a-row format. Maybe do these monthly or quarterly?
Regarding the bodies in the kitchen, I think they're there to signal the presence of the traps in the hallway leading to the main chamber. There are a lot of traps in that small hallway, and bodies clustered at each end. Notably, those bodies aren't dwarven, unlike the inhabitants of the tower, and they're relatively fresh. The bodies serve, then, as both a warning to the player that they should be wary of that small hallway in particular, and to set up the idea that other adventurers have tried to breach this place before and failed, because the tower is not the sort of run-of-the-mill dungeon that the player is used to by now.
I love how you mention, "Not the sort of run-of-the-mill dungeon that the player is used to by now" considering how absolutely horrible most of the other dungeons in BG1 were. I mean, Ulcaster School and the Firewine Ruins are the laziest design I have ever seen. Shandalar's Ice Island was pretty bad, too. Don't even get me started on the Thieves' Maze...
Durlag's Tower almost single-handedly makes up for all of those, though. Baldur's Gate was an amazing game, but it was not without its flaws. Fortunately, they learned their lesson for the sequel.
Agreed. Most of the main plot dungeons are fine (Thieves' Maze excepted), but the side dungeons are pretty universally bad except for Durlag's Tower, which is fantastic. I am frankly quite glad that you can do the main quest for the Firewine Ruins, and get most of the loot, without actually having to go through most of the dungeon, even if that's also a very odd design decision.
Of course, while BG2 absolutely does worlds better overall, I'd still argue it never quite manages to reach the level of Durlag's Tower again. A lot of that is just about narrative design. If you look at the obvious comparison from Durlag's Tower to Watcher's Keep, I'd probably argue that Watcher's Keep has way better puzzle design and probably equivalent encounter design, but only the first and last levels really deliver on the narrative aspect at all. This, as contrasted with Durlag's Tower, which retains a cohesive narrative through the whole thing.
Nathan Destler
I completely agree. While I loved Watcher's Keep from a mechanical standpoint, it always seemed like just a random assortment of cool individual levels, rather than a cohesive whole. Taken individually, the levels are fantastic, but you could skip all the way from the entrance floor down to the boss and not miss any of the story.
Though, I must say, being a lifelong D&D geek, that final boss could not have been a more satisfying choice. I guess when you're trying to design a super-tough optional boss in a game that literally involves ascension to godhood, you have to go big, or go home. ;-)
I wish they had talked about the intro quest to the dungeon. They pass it off as "just for those rare people that didn't stumble into the dungeon by themselves", but it's really to tell you that it's as you say "not the sort of run-of-the-mill dungeon that the player is used to by now". You and a bunch of others directly and severely experience the cost of underestimating the danger of this particular dungeon.
In fact, thinking about it, I think I disagree with their analysis that the blazing horrors being used as gatekeepers was a good thing. They're right that that's what they're used for, but they should have been placed *after* the intro quest, not before it. It makes no sense to fight your way through that only to meet up with a dozen or so commoners; how the heck did *they* get there? The quest is a great way to scare off a weak party, and if that's not enough, *then* put some battle horrors to keep a weaker party out.
Well, in Durlag's tower. If there is a corpse or skeleton on the floor, there is probably a trap. It signals danger.
I assume all the dead people found here are adventurers, the bodies have not decayed.
The constant barrage of traps gives a sense of danger, although i honestly just find them annoying. I do not consider Durlag's tower the best dungeon in the baldurs gate series at all. The hardest? Sure. Personally i liked the cloakwood mines much better. In baldurs gate 2 i would probably go with either the Umar hills temple or Firkraag's dungeon.
Let's wrap up Floor 1 of Durlag's Tower! Can you apply this Design Club lesson to Floor 2 on your own? [Text replies are welcome here]
we probably can, but we highly enjoy your analysis and insightful way you go into the perfect amount of depth.
more please! If only design club and not the other floors
+Extra Credits That is an _awesome_ idea. Way to go using the medium of TH-cam to it's advantage!
Great video as always, guys! I love Baldur's Gate, and I love all of your content and therefore the merging of the two was truly something special for me. I thought your analysis of the first floor (first three floors I suppose, four if you count the outside as a different floor) was as insightful and high quality as it always is.
However, I had a vastly different interpretation of the corpses found scattered around the dungeon. I've always assumed the corpses to be the bodies of unwary adventurers who've attempted to plunder the tower before you but fell victim to the staggering number of traps. The fact that these corpses are generally found near traps, signaling the player that perhaps caution is in order, coupled with the fact that these bodies are generally in fairly decent condition (even the skeletal ones are still red with gore) would seem to suggest that they are not original to the tower which is itself several hundred years abandoned by the point you come across it.
Loved the series and keep up the great work!
PS. If you just walk through the hallway from the kitchen to the main hall or vice versa you will certainly die, that 10-15 foot space has like eight traps in it.
Oddly enough the title says it all. This method of encounter building is right out of the tabletop school of building a dungeon. It wasn't in the first two editions of Dungeons and Dragons, Baldur's Gate is based on 2nd AD&D, but has been in all editions since.
Will you guys link the response videos? I bet there's many of us who would like to watch how others analyze the next floors
This mini-series is exactly what I wanted out of Design Club when it started, I really couldn't get into the live format so I never bothered with it when you streamed it. I hope you do more of these in the future, even if they're few and far between. It's been too long since you've done this.
It kinda makes me wonder what you're plan is for the channel when this series laid dormant for so long, but the Extra History ran on this channel rather than one dedicated to it.
I'm fine with them being crazy big history buffs, but my god aren't these design club entries 100x more interesting than some history I've likely heard before. Insight into the game industry as fragmented and weird as it is, is just an enticing thing.
thats extra history. they can and should expand there brand less there channel becomes stagnant. i bet it would be frustrating for them to be tied to only one format because of some overly entitled fans.
BlackFang74 I'm not saying they shouldn't make Extra History, but I just don't see why it's on the main channel when pretty much everyone signed up to learn more about gaming. It's just such a different topic, I don't understand why it's not on a side channel like the LPs.
Because their schedule is already laid out for us, and watching Extra History is optional. If you don't want to see extra history, then simply don't check the channel on the days extra history is uploaded. Even if you do check the channel on those days, you still wouldn't have to watch it. However, I must agree that while I LOVE history, these episodes were very interesting as well. Can't wait for the next one!
Grayson Robbins Well, I never check individual channels anyway. It just pops up in my sub box.
This series has helped a bunch with my D&D design. :)
Same
Right? It all makes sense when spelled out this clearly (divide quests into smaller pieces, hubs and sub-hubs with spokes, encounter design) but until explicitly pointed out I had never thought of it like that before
Why do i not haw anyfriends to play d&d with?
same
Spike Sparkle Might work... if it wasent couse i live in nomans land with 15 km to the nearest city... and that dosent haw stores like that...
please do the rest of the tower
HOW CAN YOU LEAVE US HANGING LIKE THIS. MOAR!!!
all da tower
yes, we must finish, what we have STARTED!
Butt Kicking For Goodness!
I know of dragons with feet like rabbits, 'tis true, I swear.
This series of analysis was strangly satisfying to watch. I never imagined that something like leveldesign analysis would be so fun to watch. I'm definitely looking forward for more.
Would absolutely love to see you guys continue through the whole dungeon. This was fantastic. I've had baldur's gate on steam for awhile now, but hadn't gotten around to playing it. When i started watching this series yesterday, i decided to finally give it a shot, and as of right now i have over eight hours in the game. I can't put it down. Thank you guys for helping me discover a truly great game!
This mini-series is the best of Extra Credits in a long while, and that's no easy feat considering the standard high quality.
Please do make the rest of the tower.
I adore this series, I'd love more dungeon/level design breakdowns in this style.
+
I disagree about the narrative component in the engine room. Engines are not very common in the setting and the presence of one helps cement the feeling that whoever lived in the tower had unusual talents or means. It adds a bit of texture to the tower's look and feel and indicates that the scale of activity in the tower used to be quiet high -- that is to say, either many people lived there or someone needed lots of power for something occurred in the tower, because you don't fill a room with an engine just to make wine for yourself.
Well said.
I guess it make a lot of sense for the whole tower, but for the floor itself it doesn't seems to serve more purpose than the wine.
I disagree, the entire floor has places of opulence and wealth. A library, study, bedroom, treasury, along with fantastic machinery and FLESH GOLEMS for sparring partners? It shows that whoever lived there was uncommonly rich, and likely skilled in obscure and powerful disciplines as well.
I'd say there's not a single answer to some of these things. Your analysis of the engine room certainly makes sense. There could be more to it than meets the eye and this only adds to the mystery.
That's sort of a weird thing about the Forgotten Realms setting. The actually level of technological capability of the setting's people has a tendency to swing wildly from little more than the dark ages to not far off from the industrial revolution (Especially when magic is involved), depending on what ever fits the story.
AAAAAHHHH! No keep going! Dan and James are so good at this! JUST DO IT! I hate how you guys stop way before you're done. Even if its speedy this is one of my favorite things that no one else ever talks about. If someone else does it well enough you should post it with your little EC guy butting in for criticisms or something. But yeah, this has been my favorite series in a while no question.
I personally would have chosen the opening few minutes of Baldurs Gate 2 to do a design club on. That first dungeon is still something that I know by heart at this point and is nearly flawless in everything it accomplishes. It's combat and puzzle layout is just as good at setting up the mechanics, and it hooked me though it was my first D&D foray. Narratively, it set you squarely on the path and gave you all the info you needed to know why your character mattered even if, like me, you played 2 before playing 1. It also establishes the antagonist, and gave you personal stakes, whether through dialogue or actual room layout. And even though it was really a tutorial, and not a particularly *Big* dungeon, it felt ponderous. Seeing the exit was a very real relief.
And then the game raises both the scale AND the narrative stakes.
Okay, now that it's over, I can finally say: this series has been INCREDIBLE. Please, please, PLEASE do more mini-series like this! Maybe do one like, every 3 months or something? And you could look at a bunch of different genres and styles; show us different dungeons in other games and how those games change things up from how Durlag's Tower was created. I'm perfectly happy to miss out on one week of Extra Credits (and don't get me wrong, I MISSED that this week) if it means digging into a game to this degree of depth!
WHY CAN'T I LIKE THIS MORE THAN ONCE!?
because if you could, someone could give literally millions of likes to a video
I believe it was rhetorical.
Because you only have one account on YT
@@ZenoDLC Who knows? He might have an alt account or two
This is the first time I've been so excited for a series on youtube. I've never had the urge to check if an episode's been uploaded for anything else, excellent work Extra Credits!
THIS was my favorite discussion topic about game design so far, as a classic pen & paper guy who uses his own material exclusively, you really did a great job explaining what made Durlags Tower such a great lesson in dungeon design.
I love the Design Club section of this channel; I find it to be the one which feels the most like you are learning something about the thought that goes into making games. I would love to see more Design Club on many different games and I am sure you have got a lot ideas for it as well. I wish you a great day!
I would love to see a complete Let's Play in this style! ...maybe a Let's Analyze? oO
Sounds like Side Quest.
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn Let's Analyze part 2673: The Choice Between Two Factions
That was the original idea behind Side Quest, but Dan and James were having serious scheduling problems, so Dan finished it on his own as a typical LP, and liked it enough to continue through the second one.
I would love to see either James or Ronni Oni Edwards (from The Game Theorists/DNSQ) do an LP like that, since Dan's so busy (Dark Souls II, Sonic, Design Club, Extra Credits, Extra Frames/Animation Of…, day job, etc.).
Batfan1939 Dan might not know much about Dark Souls or be great at commenting while fighting bosses or tough mooks (or weak hollows), but he still does a lot more design talk than typical LPers. (Not that that's saying much...)
Those early episodes were much better, though. If only scheduling constraints weren't a thing.
+Timothy McLean Dan talks design because it's in his wiring. It's just how he sees games!
Good lord... I never thought about Durlag's tower other then it was a neat quest... I didn't even really think about what happened there... I mean I knew it was bad, but seeing how you break down everything makes the tower... Well it now makes me think about how I will describe the rooms my dnd players will be entering rather then just saying "its a x by x room with doors to the north and south."
Instead, go about it like this:
"You come into a room.
Combat component: a skeleton.
Puzzle component: roll spot checks!
Narrative component: There's a toilet here. The skeleton has a crossbow bolt in its ribcage.
Reward component: Some consumables."
:D
Thank you SO much for doing these!
It has skyrocketed the quality of my D&D dungeons and given me a good guideline for designing rooms, floors and layouts.
You guys are just the best, love everything you do!
Awh, I was hoping YOU guys would be examining Durlag's Tower, all the way to the end. This was like a lets play from the point of view of a real designer. I hope to see more of this, in the future.
Can't wait for more Baldur's Gate Design Club !
"Also some grapes, in case you want some grapes!"
I don't know what it is but something about this line makes me giggle endlessly.
This was a phenomenal series of videos. I know these take a bit more time and effort than some of the other videos, so thank you very much for making it. Hopefully, time permitting, you all can do more of these for different styles of games in the future; possibly analyzing a game that failed to deliver effectively on a good premise and why. Thanks again!
Thankyou so much for this little "Durlag's Tower" design video series. It made me think about things that I hadn't before, and possibly even saved me a lot of hours of failure. Great work Extra Credits!
I love how Boo was featured in the drawings!
I really hope that you examine other games and aspects of games like this more often when you finish this one! It's super interesting, informative and educational.
Speaking of good design: Releasing these vids in rapid succession kept me coming back, waiting daily for the upload. Well played, sirs. I may have forgotten about it it if was a weekly release.
I'm really digging the art portraying the four dwarves as EC members with beards. Great stuff!
I need more. Been rewatching these five over and over.
I never expected Analysis of game level design can make such an enjoyable series. Love it!
This analysis gave me a really good system for designing dungeons in DND, thank you! Before I always looked at them like 'adventure flowcharts' but didn't see the idea that a room and dungeon layout could work in other ways. Great series, keep up the good work.
I am SOO glad Design Club is back!! I don't even know if I'll ever be a designer but I absolutely loove this kind of analysis and discussion, it's all so fascinating @//_//@
Those 4 dwarves is the toughest encounter in the entire game. The only one you can´t exploit in any way
I LOVED this series. Please continue with your analysis and do the rest of the floors! Also, super impressed with your speed on this series; great job overall.
Really great analysis, and one I think I can carry over to the non-video games I play. Dividing the quests into sub-quests was pretty common, but I never though to loop them into a circuit like that. Reflecting, it definitely has a less "railroading" feel despite being a loop, because no portion is really necessary for completing the next one, and each portion has its own reward component. A definite help, keep up the amazing work guys!
God I loved this series. KEEP IT GOING! MORE DURLAG'S!
more design club please
After almost 2 years I'm so happy design club is back.
more of this series...doesn't have to be dungeon reviews.
I appreciate that you equipped us to do these as well.
First i was all like: Where are the gaming video's? Has this become some sort of history channel? After this series i'm not mad anymore. Great work guys!
Really love the Design Club Series. Makes me think about every Room in my game.
Great job you folks from EC, I'm digging for more!
Oh god, this series of video has help a TON in planning my Pathfinder games. The CPNR method is a great method to honing a dungeons design, especially if you keep to a theme.
Thanks a ton for the videos.
I really enjoyed these videos. Durlag's Tower was my favourite area in BG1 for precisely these reasons. While I enjoy areas of BG2 more they aren't as clean or as polished as Durlag's.
That was marvolous! I loved this series and despite the very informative nature of this series it was very entertaining, probably because one can feel the excitement for the topic in your narration. All these intricate design decisions broken down and analysed gave me a better sense as a player, what efford and thought goes into good games. Because if it is done right I don't see a chain of design choices, I just see a flowing story.
Great series, thank you! :D
It's always nice to have a reason the reignite the old flame. This was an excellent series and I'll try to take you up on your challenge.
Love to see a mini game design series on RTS (especially on their development through time, since the best are so often built on the shoulders of those that came before in this genre).
This was way cooler than I expected. I think I want more of this, and to go exploring in this way.
Undoubtedly a lot of work for these videos, but it was worth it ! Thanks for always doing a great job, and I'm sure everyone would like to see other similar mini-series, if you find the time.
For the love of god, please do more of this! I love the breaking down of such a classic game and awesome place.
I really loved this mini-series. I felt like I learned a lot and I've already started applying CPNR to the DnD game I run. Thanks for doing this!
I wish you would do a channel like this for DnD modules. I would LOVE to have such in depth input on various dungeons... even more on jewels like Tomb of Horrors or Tomb of Annihilation !
Fantastic series! The best videos you've ever done on an already excellent channel. Please, more analysis series like this!
This was a really interesting series and I'd love to see more of this in the future.
There needs to be more of this, for I love watching your channel grow and expand in content.
This was a lot of fun to watch and learn from! I've never played Baldur's Gate but it got me interested in it and games like it! Reminds me of tabletop games!
One, someone posted the first video to help someone out on the DnD reddit. I watched everyone and loved it. I love baldur's gate and I love your breakdown of this tower. You need to do the rest of the tower. Also, I would love for you to do something like this for legend of zelda or even legend of grimrock.
Phantazm Channel Idk if you've heard of him or this series, but Mark Brown has an ongoing Boss Keys series on his channel Game Maker's Toolkit where he analyzes dungeon design throughout the Legend of Zelda series and how Nintendo's design philosophies have evolved. The best thing about the videos are when he brings up his own graph system of visualizing every dungeon in the series. Not exactly the same as what is done here but still VERY interesting stuff which I highly recommend.
Please, please, please make more of these. I missed them so much
This was a GREAT series! Easily my favorite that you guys have done. I enjoy all your videos about game mechanics, but this took the cake. It's likely because I am a sucker for rpg design. I always over complicate encounters, or they seem bland. This "template" really helps balance the entire experience. It seems so obvious now. Haha. You guys are great. Thanks for all you do.
I really enjoyed this series, and as a DM myself it was really useful. Hope to see more dungeon design in the future!
whooo there, at 4:40 you stated that the bodies in the kitchen may have been there because of poisoning, but they are placed there as part of the puzzle mechanic in the small hall that leads to the main hall. The bodies serve as a warning that there is a particularly nasty set of traps just ahead. In the main hall there is also a pile of bodies coming from the opposite side of the hall giving the same warning on both sides of the hall.
Wow, 5 days of Design Club was Brilliant guys! Thanks
what a great series!! this one has probably been my most favorite, even more than EC.
This series was AMAZING. Thank you so much for this insight into level design in practice.
This was great. Happy to see design club back in action.
Man this really makes me want to play baldurs gate
baldurs gate 3 comes out soon :) cant wait!
so much love for design club :) thanks for making these episodes! they were a real treat :D
If you love the design in Durlags Tower you should checkout the sequal Watcher's keep. The tension that builds up around "The Imprisoned One" is as fantastic as it is creepy. The only problem is that the Dungeon is so hard that even the experienced in Baldurs Gate struggle. I have yet to defeat the imprisoned one in combat.
What a great set of episodes. I know I personally took a lot away from this and plan to use it in my Dungeon design for 5th Edition campaigns.
This was extremely interesting! It also made me scrap (and start fresh) some dungeon designs that I had made for an up coming Pathfinder game.
I loved this. You should absolutely do more deep dive videos like this. I would love to see you breakdown a big budget game that dose this kind of thing poorly. That way it can serve as a kind of contrast to this.
This has been the coolest thing you've done so far. Good job guys !
its sad that this mini series ends but i have to say every episode was soo entertaining and soo insightful i think you ended in a gr8 way ^^
I really hope we get to see more deep analysis design club in the future. This was very informative.
more of these would be great if you ask me, however, I expect those to be more complicated to produce than extra credits and extra history. continue the good work guys
Awesome breakdown guys. Keep this design club stuff going. I know a lot of people who will get good mileage out of it.
This was a great series. Big thank you to all of you!
really dig this format of a week long mini-series
I love the art! It's sooo cute.
What character is your avatar? Art style looks familiar, and good.
+RuneKatashima that's the female protagonist from fire emblem fates.
That was fantastic! More design club please!
I want more of those videos, like one every day for few years, go on guys!
Excellent video series for one of the best CRPGs of all time!
This is brilliant (and useful). Extra Credits! Please do more of these design deep dives!
Design Club is awesome, educative and entertaining. Good job on these videos!
"Also some grapes. In case you want some grapes." Love it.
This serie is awesome, and I actually would love to see a sequel for the whole tower =D
Really loved these 5 episodes, I'd really like to see more like this.
I sincerely enjoyed this series of videos and would love to see more.
I loved this series! I never played much of Tales of the Sword Coast once I realized it had no impact on the main baldurs gate story. but this makes me want to play through the game again to try out the expansion content
Please do the rest of the tower!! This was so freaking good!!
THERE'S MORE FLOORS AFTER THIS!? Congrats, you made me want to play this game! (Bought it but never got around to playing it)
So glad I discovered you guys. Nobody makes videos like this.
Excellent job! =D
I really wish this series went on longer.
Thanks for doing this series. It will be useful to refer folks to when talking about DMing.
This is the coolest series yet!
This series was amazing! Thank you so much for it!
I'm gonna echo everyone and say, I loved this series and more would be amazing!
I would dearly love to see you explore other games' dungeons in this way. Like the first screen in Tides of Numenera of The Mortuary in Planescape: Torment.